The Syndicate

thellama73 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:27 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:14 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:08 pm Yeah I don’t like llama’s handling of this issue.

To elaborate: the main (only) reason that I’m a suspect is my handling of the luna plan yesterday. Llama brushed over this in his ISO, giving it an arbitrary nod as “bad”, but didn’t have anything else ro say about it. He came out with a town read but doesn’t really address the most controversial moment in my ISO. If he’s mafia he has no incentive to actually come to my defense, he just needs to put the work in to justify a town read on me tomorrow.

When I pressed him on the issue, he kind of just reiterated the basic take on it: “it was a bad look but it doesn’t outweigh the rest of your posts.”

No elaboration on why its bad. No attempted justification of why a civilian would act that way. Llama doesn’t care about this read.

I don't care about the read because I'm confident you're civilian. You misunderstand my analysis. I went through your posts looking for reasons to think you might be bad, and that was the only thing I could come up with, really. I didn't find it convincing, but I put it in the bad column since Mac keeps talking about it. I don't actually think it makes you look bad.

Wait what? You don’t think it looks bad? You just said it does because that’s what somebody else said?

If you’re town (general “you” there, not just llama) you should at the very least be able to entertain the idea that any player could be any alignment. You should be able to make an argument for a particular item being bad, even if you don’t believe in it. Llama is doing none of that.

thellama73 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:32 pm Okay, so after rereading Nova, I am more convinced than ever that the Mafia team consists of him and Mongoose. I don't believe his initial ping on me was genuine. I don't think his case on Mac was genuine either.
So, I looked at his interactions with Mongoose to see if I can see them as teammates. Here they are (not all of them. I left out some repetitive rainbow lists for brevity's sake).

thellama73 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:32 pm He has a jokey, minor ping on Mongoose based on her first post. Then he says he feels good about her. Then he consistently reads her as bad the rest of the game. But looking at his actual conversations with her rather than about her, they are much more lighthearted and congenial when contrasted with the way he treats his other suspects, namely Mac. I think they are on a team together, and one of them will get my vote tomorrow.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:30 pm I think it's her non-confronting attitude and gentle tone lol. She's playing the game at her own pace. She seems to take into consideration everything that is said to her and responds to everything. She doesn't seem to be trying to shut down suspicions against her.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:39 pm If you’re town (general “you” there, not just llama) you should at the very least be able to entertain the idea that any player could be any alignment. You should be able to make an argument for a particular item being bad, even if you don’t believe in it. Llama is doing none of that.

I phrased this poorly because I got excited.

A civilian’s disposition should be open and receptive to multiple sides of an issue. Even if Player A is town-reading Player B, they should be capable of envisioning a world where Player B is mafia, and so they should be able to elaborate on a specific argument for why an alleged shady behavior is shady, even if their overall read of that player is favorable.

Llama’s stance is “Mac said this looks bad for Sloonei, so I agreed with that but he’s town anyway.”

Llama iso’d everyone at mylo and came to no new conclusions.

He's buddying the fuck out of Mac, and trying not to be confrontational with you.

I might actually be wrong about Mac

I have 300 posts in this game. Anyone that thinks I'm bad is crazy lol.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:46 pm I have 300 posts in this game. Anyone that thinks I'm bad is crazy lol.

This is kinda where my head is at with you.

I think we’ve got a llama/mongoose team. Llama/Mac wouldn’t be shocking either, but it’s my second choice. I don’t believe anything llama is saying right now.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:51 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:46 pm I have 300 posts in this game. Anyone that thinks I'm bad is crazy lol.

This is kinda where my head is at with you.

I think we’ve got a llama/mongoose team. Llama/Mac wouldn’t be shocking either, but it’s my second choice. I don’t believe anything llama is saying right now.

I mean sure before this one my most active game was as a baddie but the context was vastly different.

Yeah, I'm leaning towards a Llama/Mongoose as well. How do you see a Llama/Mac pairing? Or is it mostly based on Llama being bad rather than compatibility?

My second choice would Mac/Mongoose with how he tried to buy her a town lock immediately following that lynch. Stroke me as weird, but I'm cooling on him recently mostly due to Llama lighting a fire on himself lol.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:00 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:51 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:46 pm I have 300 posts in this game. Anyone that thinks I'm bad is crazy lol.

This is kinda where my head is at with you.

I think we’ve got a llama/mongoose team. Llama/Mac wouldn’t be shocking either, but it’s my second choice. I don’t believe anything llama is saying right now.

I mean sure before this one my most active game was as a baddie but the context was vastly different.

Yeah, I'm leaning towards a Llama/Mongoose as well. How do you see a Llama/Mac pairing? Or is it mostly based on Llama being bad rather than compatibility?

My second choice would Mac/Mongoose with how he tried to buy her a town lock immediately following that lynch. Stroke me as weird, but I'm cooling on him recently mostly due to Llama lighting a fire on himself lol.

It’s more about llama being bad than mac being compatible

I still have no idea why mac says mongoose is lock town. You’ve got a point there. [mention]MacDougall[/mention] why that?

I wish Mac lived in the same time zone we do. It's hard to have the points and counter points separated by time. I'm trying to work through whether there would have been a baddie advantage in pulling out of the plan because if Luna got lynched and we had wasted her power, taking that gamble would have looked bad.

linki

I think llama and mongoose coordinated their moves yesterday. I think they deliberately tried to pocket Mac by puffing up his case on nova.

If I’m boiling it down to one issue that makes me think it’s llama/mongoose instead of llama/mac, that’s it.

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:09 pm I wish Mac lived in the same time zone we do. It's hard to have the points and counter points separated by time. I'm trying to work through whether there would have been a baddie advantage in pulling out of the plan because if Luna got lynched and we had wasted her power, taking that gamble would have looked bad.

linki

And if she had survived, wasted her power and can just get killed either way since there is no mean to protection.

This "civ confirm" is a scam.

Though with that said I am leaning away from a "Sloonei is bad" read. Tunneling me to the extent that you did would have looked bad for you if you had convinced others to vote for me.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:10 pm I think llama and mongoose coordinated their moves yesterday. I think they deliberately tried to pocket Mac by puffing up his case on nova.

If I’m boiling it down to one issue that makes me think it’s llama/mongoose instead of llama/mac, that’s it.

Llama/Mac counterpoint: Mac's early joke-push to lynch MP7 was some distancing. Llama said he liked it lol.

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:09 pm I wish Mac lived in the same time zone we do. It's hard to have the points and counter points separated by time. I'm trying to work through whether there would have been a baddie advantage in pulling out of the plan because if Luna got lynched and we had wasted her power, taking that gamble would have looked bad.

linki

I had arrived at the same idea for making luna use her ability, apparently just moments after mac. I’m not concerned that his mindset there was incompatible with town. I do think the idea was worthwhile risk for the civilians, but I don’t think the advantage gained was so great that mafia would feel the need to avoid it at all costs. I have a harder time believing they’d suggest it, though.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:10 pm I think llama and mongoose coordinated their moves yesterday. I think they deliberately tried to pocket Mac by puffing up his case on nova.

If I’m boiling it down to one issue that makes me think it’s llama/mongoose instead of llama/mac, that’s it.

I am buying a llama is bad theory but I'm still having trouble with Mongoose. Llama himself game me the best reason I've seen to doubt her which is her personality is a good cover for a scum role.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:13 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:10 pm I think llama and mongoose coordinated their moves yesterday. I think they deliberately tried to pocket Mac by puffing up his case on nova.

If I’m boiling it down to one issue that makes me think it’s llama/mongoose instead of llama/mac, that’s it.

Llama/Mac counterpoint: Mac's early joke-push to lynch MP7 was some distancing. Llama said he liked it lol.

I’d need to be convinced that this specifically is the case. I’m not sure I see it. Mac suggests we lynch everyone on Day 1.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:15 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:09 pm I wish Mac lived in the same time zone we do. It's hard to have the points and counter points separated by time. I'm trying to work through whether there would have been a baddie advantage in pulling out of the plan because if Luna got lynched and we had wasted her power, taking that gamble would have looked bad.

linki

I had arrived at the same idea for making luna use her ability, apparently just moments after mac. I’m not concerned that his mindset there was incompatible with town. I do think the idea was worthwhile risk for the civilians, but I don’t think the advantage gained was so great that mafia would feel the need to avoid it at all costs. I have a harder time believing they’d suggest it, though.

Yes good point. I have a hard time thinking that as well.

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:16 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:10 pm I think llama and mongoose coordinated their moves yesterday. I think they deliberately tried to pocket Mac by puffing up his case on nova.

If I’m boiling it down to one issue that makes me think it’s llama/mongoose instead of llama/mac, that’s it.

I am buying a llama is bad theory but I'm still having trouble with Mongoose. Llama himself game me the best reason I've seen to doubt her which is her personality is a good cover for a scum role.

If llama is bad, who do you think is his teammate?

So I guess I better go read nova, because if it's not Mac or Mongoose it has to be him, though my gut is that it's not. This is impossible. I guess I just have to keep working through it little by little.

I’ve voiced this question several times already but never received an answer: why was Mongoose dropped from the discussion on Day 2? She was a popular suspect Day/Night 1, but then on Day 2 we barely had a work spoken about her.

She was in the PoE Juliets, Dunya and I came up with. I think I responded you here,

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:30 pm I think it's her non-confronting attitude and gentle tone lol. She's playing the game at her own pace. She seems to take into consideration everything that is said to her and responds to everything. She doesn't seem to be trying to shut down suspicions against her.

I think that alongside the attention brought to Luna by her claim.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:17 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:16 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:10 pm I think llama and mongoose coordinated their moves yesterday. I think they deliberately tried to pocket Mac by puffing up his case on nova.

If I’m boiling it down to one issue that makes me think it’s llama/mongoose instead of llama/mac, that’s it.

I am buying a llama is bad theory but I'm still having trouble with Mongoose. Llama himself game me the best reason I've seen to doubt her which is her personality is a good cover for a scum role.

If llama is bad, who do you think is his teammate?

Yes, that is the question. Still working through it.

linki: she was always number three to me behind Colin and Luna and she was only number 3 because of the exercise nova and dunya and I did so it was somewhat forced. If I had that exercise to do over again I wouldn't pick llama. I spent most of my time yesterday on Colin and Luna.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:23 pm She was in the PoE Juliets, Dunya and I came up with. I think I responded you here,

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:30 pm I think it's her non-confronting attitude and gentle tone lol. She's playing the game at her own pace. She seems to take into consideration everything that is said to her and responds to everything. She doesn't seem to be trying to shut down suspicions against her.

I think that alongside the attention brought to Luna by her claim.

Yes I agree with what nova is saying here.

I feel like the following exchange also looks shady:

Mongoose wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:20 am

thellama73 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:35 pm Okay, now that it's Day, I have questions.

Colin & Mongoose: Why did you vote no lynch yesterday? Be specific.

Everyone else: What is your read on Luna? I don't like how no one but me is talking about her. It feels like a "move on, nothing to see here" kind of scenario.

I’ve been on the fence on whether to be truthful about what happened with my vote (hear me out), but I’ve been very candid in this game and I want to continue that. About 45 mins before the vote ended, I decided to switch my vote to Luna, Like is said I would do when I fully picked a player to vote. I literally voted in one of the changing stalls at the yoga studio. Then I put my phone in my bag and headed to class. When I got out, I was shocked to see that the poll said I voted No Lynch. I don’t know if I failed to lock my phone and the gremlins got at it, if it’s another symptom of Mercury being in retrograde, or it just tumbled around in my gym bag with my clothes when I stuffed it into a cubby, but I didn’t intend to switch off Luna.

I mean why would I? I promised all day that I would vote for a player, and I kinda torpedoed my work day to catch up to my put myself in a position to do that. So imagine my abject horror when I saw it didn’t reflect Luna. I don’t blame you if you are skeptical of this story. I’d be too if it hadn’t happened to me.

But that’s what really happened. I won’t be doing any more no lynch votes by the way; I was kinda using it as a placeholder to make sure I wasn’t a voting non participant.

It was one of the most frustrating things I’ve experienced in a game and it was no one’s fault, but YIKES.

If you have any questions, please @ me to ensure I see it -thanks!

The No Lynch vote was at least the most publicly pressing question facing Mongoose going into Day 2, and this response feels rehearsed or at least premeditated (even by her own admition, “I’ve been on the fence...”). Llama provides her with a totally neutral, uncritical route to explain the situation, and he bought her story with minimal fuss. I have no trouble reading this as a coordinated and premeditated plan between two mafia partners to spring one of them free from a trap.

I’m also not sure it’s a total coincidence that they both chose to defend colin to some degree, he being the other party guilty of a No Lynch vote.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:23 pm She was in the PoE Juliets, Dunya and I came up with. I think I responded you here,

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:30 pm I think it's her non-confronting attitude and gentle tone lol. She's playing the game at her own pace. She seems to take into consideration everything that is said to her and responds to everything. She doesn't seem to be trying to shut down suspicions against her.

I think that alongside the attention brought to Luna by her claim.

Fair deal. My inclination is to be suspicious when a player drops off the map likd that though. Hence my harping on it.
I feel more strongly about llama/mongoose everywhere I look.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:28 pm I feel like the following exchange also looks shady:

Mongoose wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:20 am

thellama73 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:35 pm Okay, now that it's Day, I have questions.

Colin & Mongoose: Why did you vote no lynch yesterday? Be specific.

Everyone else: What is your read on Luna? I don't like how no one but me is talking about her. It feels like a "move on, nothing to see here" kind of scenario.

I’ve been on the fence on whether to be truthful about what happened with my vote (hear me out), but I’ve been very candid in this game and I want to continue that. About 45 mins before the vote ended, I decided to switch my vote to Luna, Like is said I would do when I fully picked a player to vote. I literally voted in one of the changing stalls at the yoga studio. Then I put my phone in my bag and headed to class. When I got out, I was shocked to see that the poll said I voted No Lynch. I don’t know if I failed to lock my phone and the gremlins got at it, if it’s another symptom of Mercury being in retrograde, or it just tumbled around in my gym bag with my clothes when I stuffed it into a cubby, but I didn’t intend to switch off Luna.

I mean why would I? I promised all day that I would vote for a player, and I kinda torpedoed my work day to catch up to my put myself in a position to do that. So imagine my abject horror when I saw it didn’t reflect Luna. I don’t blame you if you are skeptical of this story. I’d be too if it hadn’t happened to me.

But that’s what really happened. I won’t be doing any more no lynch votes by the way; I was kinda using it as a placeholder to make sure I wasn’t a voting non participant.

It was one of the most frustrating things I’ve experienced in a game and it was no one’s fault, but YIKES.

If you have any questions, please @ me to ensure I see it -thanks!

The No Lynch vote was at least the most publicly pressing question facing Mongoose going into Day 2, and this response feels rehearsed or at least premeditated (even by her own admition, “I’ve been on the fence...”). Llama provides her with a totally neutral, uncritical route to explain the situation, and he bought her story with minimal fuss. I have no trouble reading this as a coordinated and premeditated plan between two mafia partners to spring one of them free from a trap.

I’m also not sure it’s a total coincidence that they both chose to defend colin to some degree, he being the other party guilty of a No Lynch vote.

Sloonei I feel like I have an advantage here because I know her nature and this sounds exactly like something that would happen to her. The woman has a lot of "oh wow" things that happen to her because she is rushing around like cray. The other thing is someone saw her Luna vote - I'll have to go back and look but someone mentioned seeing it so that also made the story ring true to me. The one thing that does bother me is the softball set up from llama, though if they are both bad why did he feel he had to do that? Wasn't he the only one seeing the No Lynch votes as baddie votes or were there others that agreed with him? I know I did not.

EBWOP: "cray" should be "crazy"

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:34 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:28 pm I feel like the following exchange also looks shady:

Mongoose wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:20 am

thellama73 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:35 pm Okay, now that it's Day, I have questions.

Colin & Mongoose: Why did you vote no lynch yesterday? Be specific.

Everyone else: What is your read on Luna? I don't like how no one but me is talking about her. It feels like a "move on, nothing to see here" kind of scenario.

I’ve been on the fence on whether to be truthful about what happened with my vote (hear me out), but I’ve been very candid in this game and I want to continue that. About 45 mins before the vote ended, I decided to switch my vote to Luna, Like is said I would do when I fully picked a player to vote. I literally voted in one of the changing stalls at the yoga studio. Then I put my phone in my bag and headed to class. When I got out, I was shocked to see that the poll said I voted No Lynch. I don’t know if I failed to lock my phone and the gremlins got at it, if it’s another symptom of Mercury being in retrograde, or it just tumbled around in my gym bag with my clothes when I stuffed it into a cubby, but I didn’t intend to switch off Luna.

I mean why would I? I promised all day that I would vote for a player, and I kinda torpedoed my work day to catch up to my put myself in a position to do that. So imagine my abject horror when I saw it didn’t reflect Luna. I don’t blame you if you are skeptical of this story. I’d be too if it hadn’t happened to me.

But that’s what really happened. I won’t be doing any more no lynch votes by the way; I was kinda using it as a placeholder to make sure I wasn’t a voting non participant.

It was one of the most frustrating things I’ve experienced in a game and it was no one’s fault, but YIKES.

If you have any questions, please @ me to ensure I see it -thanks!

The No Lynch vote was at least the most publicly pressing question facing Mongoose going into Day 2, and this response feels rehearsed or at least premeditated (even by her own admition, “I’ve been on the fence...”). Llama provides her with a totally neutral, uncritical route to explain the situation, and he bought her story with minimal fuss. I have no trouble reading this as a coordinated and premeditated plan between two mafia partners to spring one of them free from a trap.

I’m also not sure it’s a total coincidence that they both chose to defend colin to some degree, he being the other party guilty of a No Lynch vote.

Sloonei I feel like I have an advantage here because I know her nature and this sounds exactly like something that would happen to her. The woman has a lot of "oh wow" things that happen to her because she is rushing around like cray. The other thing is someone saw her Luna vote - I'll have to go back and look but someone mentioned seeing it so that also made the story ring true to me. The one thing that does bother me is the softball set up from llama, though if they are both bad why did he feel he had to do that? Wasn't he the only one seeing the No Lynch votes as baddie votes or were there others that agreed with him? I know I did not.

To be clear, I don’t disbelieve the story one way or other. And actually, believing the story makes me feel slightly worse about llama. What I’m bothered by is llama’s “softball setup” in your words. It reads like he and mongoose conspired to get this narrative out there quickly and on their own terms so that the issue could be swept under the rug (hence also treating colin as a friend most of the day).

Llama was not the only one who took issue with the No Lynch votes. I did too, and I was not alone in that prior to llama’s entry into the game.

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:35 pm EBWOP: "cray" should be "crazy"

I thought you were just being hip.

dunya wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:44 pm it amuses me to imagine juliets talking like nicki minaj tbh

hahahahaha!!!

Taking a break from this for a little while.

[mention]Lunalee[/mention] we’ve hardly heard from you tonight. Your voice is crucial right now, as you’re one of two near-confirmed civilians. Please share your reads and let us work with you to nail down your suspects.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:14 pm @Lunalee we’ve hardly heard from you tonight. Your voice is crucial right now, as you’re one of two near-confirmed civilians. Please share your reads and let us work with you to nail down your suspects.

I know Luna is generally busy on Sunday mornings. Hopefully she'll be here this afternoon, I would like to hear her thoughts.

I'm off to read Mongoose and your ISO of Mongoose to see how strongly I hold to my Mongoose convictions. Prior to re-reading her I would say the thing that looks worst for her in my mind is she let llama's reads of her go by without challenging him. (I know she hasn't had a chance today, I'm talking about his earlier misgivings). So I'm off to read her.

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:23 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:14 pm @Lunalee we’ve hardly heard from you tonight. Your voice is crucial right now, as you’re one of two near-confirmed civilians. Please share your reads and let us work with you to nail down your suspects.

I know Luna is generally busy on Sunday mornings. Hopefully she'll be here this afternoon, I would like to hear her thoughts.

I'm off to read Mongoose and your ISO of Mongoose to see how strongly I hold to my Mongoose convictions. Prior to re-reading her I would say the thing that looks worst for her in my mind is she let llama's reads of her go by without challenging him. (I know she hasn't had a chance today, I'm talking about his earlier misgivings). So I'm off to read her.

I’m on “spring” break (it snowed yesterday), I have absolutely no sense of what day of the week it is.

I’ll refrain from commenting on mongoose again til you’ve had a look.

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:23 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:14 pm @Lunalee we’ve hardly heard from you tonight. Your voice is crucial right now, as you’re one of two near-confirmed civilians. Please share your reads and let us work with you to nail down your suspects.

I know Luna is generally busy on Sunday mornings. Hopefully she'll be here this afternoon, I would like to hear her thoughts.

I'm off to read Mongoose and your ISO of Mongoose to see how strongly I hold to my Mongoose convictions. Prior to re-reading her I would say the thing that looks worst for her in my mind is she let llama's reads of her go by without challenging him. (I know she hasn't had a chance today, I'm talking about his earlier misgivings). So I'm off to read her.

That's a pretty good find. It's in striking contrast with her handling of other suspicions, see my post about how she takes everything in and make sure to respond to every point.

Perhaps, it's because she didn't feel the need to do the same with a scum buddy?

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:43 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:23 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:14 pm @Lunalee we’ve hardly heard from you tonight. Your voice is crucial right now, as you’re one of two near-confirmed civilians. Please share your reads and let us work with you to nail down your suspects.

I know Luna is generally busy on Sunday mornings. Hopefully she'll be here this afternoon, I would like to hear her thoughts.

I'm off to read Mongoose and your ISO of Mongoose to see how strongly I hold to my Mongoose convictions. Prior to re-reading her I would say the thing that looks worst for her in my mind is she let llama's reads of her go by without challenging him. (I know she hasn't had a chance today, I'm talking about his earlier misgivings). So I'm off to read her.

That's a pretty good find. It's in striking contrast with her handling of other suspicions, see my post about how she takes everything in and make sure to respond to every point.

Perhaps, it's because she didn't feel the need to do the same with a scum buddy?

Yeah I'm combing through her ISO now hoping to find some inkling that I missed. She certainly stands up to dunya's suspicions.

Ok I'm doing Mongoose now.

I like this post. Dunya is trying to nail her down and she gives it right back to her. Seems to show she does have that instinct to not let someone get over on her. Is this alignment indicative? I don't know let's see.

Mongoose wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:39 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:35 pm

Mongoose wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:30 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:26 pm no but seriously, i really did feel mongoose's entry was a little more stiff than her previous two.

Do you blame me after the raucous first day I had in Gossip Girl? That was brutalizing.

so you are admitting you were in fact intentionally more stiff in your opening post here? exhibit a: the woman does not deny it, your honor.

I find it suspicious you don't value candor.

I think it was llama who disliked this post. I completely understand where she's coming from here. The game has changed a lot since she has been away. I have had to try and modify my style to suit as well. I don't think POE was mainstream back then and I still don't really get why "player salad" is suspicious just to name a couple of changes. I have snipped the beginning of this quote for brevity.

Mongoose wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:45 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:35 pm

Mongoose wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:30 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:26 pm no but seriously, i really did feel mongoose's entry was a little more stiff than her previous two.

Do you blame me after the raucous first day I had in Gossip Girl? That was brutalizing.

You got a read on dunya or nova?

linki - Calibrating my playstyle to more suit this new world of mafia seems not only sensible but prudent. I'd expect anyone to do the same after playing one short game and literally one day period of another. My old style, which you would be unfamiliar with, seems a little antiquated for this new mafia landscape. It's more different than I could have ever realized.

I originally thought this post showed her to be civ because she couldn't have forgotten about the game AND btsc. But since that time I realized if MP/llama was her partner, there probably was no btsc so I'm neutral on this post other than it does fit with her lifestyle. However, see my next point after this.

Mongoose wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:02 pm Holy cowwww, forgot about this game. I’ll catch up intermittently this afternoon.

This post below also speaks to the absence. I know she was not making this up, so I don't think her reason for not being here was because she was laying low as scum:

Mongoose wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:30 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:19 pm i do think juliets is bad, but i'm not a monster despite what you all think of me. no way would i lynch her day 1.

let's talk about how mongoose is mia today after getting a little heat from me yesterday

[VOTE: Mongoose] aubergine

My job is CRAZAY during legislative session. I had been up since 430, I even took a nap at 6 and then just super chilled the entire evening. Coming here didn’t even cross my mind (Jay, please don’t be offended).

Is this a forced acknowledgement of MP so she won't look like she is not interacting with him? A signal to join her in btsc? Or is it just typical Mongoose saying hello to a friend that hasn't been around? I tend to go with the latter but see that it could be the former.

Mongoose wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:19 am

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:34 am God dammit, sorry all, Mondays and Tuesdays are insane for me and I have been busy out of my mind. Unfortunately I'm exhausted now so I'll do things tomorrow before deadline.

Oh hai

Here she makes a point that she is thorough in answering to everything people have brought up. I'm anxious to see if that goes for the llama suspicions later because I don't remember her saying anything about them.

Mongoose wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:07 pm <snip>

As for being on the defense, sure I can defend myself but that doesn’t mean I’m defensive. I spent a LOT of time trying to thoroughly run through everyone’s questions for me and answering them fully. I didn’t want to brush anyone’s concerns off, and felt pretty confident I got to everything. In the end, I ran out of time. I was able to make some good thought out posts for day 1 and was actively hunting.

I feel slightly hamstrung by not having heard much or anything from a few folks, but I rarely have anything other than mild pings on day 1 (with some exceptions of course).

Linki

Even though Mongoose hasn't played with me she knows me pretty well and in my estimation read me well, just like Colin. Some of you will think this is TMI but I find her genuine and not wanting to see a civ lynched.

Mongoose wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:11 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:05 pm [VOTE: juliets] aubergine

I’ve tried giving her space to build cases and do her thing all day, but she hasn’t. I still do not have a clear sense of where her head is at in the scum hunting process. I usually do.

I urge you to reconsider. I sense your frustration but I don’t think this will end well. I could absolutely be wrong and I’ll feel really stupid and duped, it’s an absolute possibility. But just make sure you’re in for 10?

Linki

This is the post I referenced earlier where dunya seems to acknowledge she sees the Luna vote. Mongoose had posted an "I'm gonna vote" post but had not said who she was voting for. This is one thing that makes her whole story about the Luna vote believable to me.

Mongoose wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:50 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:40 pm

Mongoose wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:33 pm I’m here and have literally 2 mins before I need to leave so I’ll vote but I probably don’t have time to reply to anything sorry!

so we got a no-u vote on luna?

I’ve been reticent to bring her up all day because you always get that as a response but I’ve been consistent on having her listed as who I feel the least best about. I can’t not pick her though just because she voted for me. Hope that makes sense

So, this brings us to the end of Day 1 and I'm taking a break.

I actually found Luna's post about using Jay's method as odd too but for a different reason. I thought most everybody who has been around was already playing that way (POE). Mongoose's point was also good at the time in my estimation. She wasn't saying it showed Luna to be bad but she was questioning the post guaranteeing that Luna was good.

Mongoose wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:56 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:48 pm

Lunalee wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:04 pm I think I'll try Jay's "find the town instead of the scum" strategy this game. I think it will be easier for me.

This post is the reason I town read her I guess.

Whyyyy? Anyone could say that, regardless of alignment. That's a Safety McSaferson thing to say. I'm not saying it's suspicious in of itself (clearly, it's not and do not misunderstand me), but it's hardly a Visa to Civ Country.

I believe Sloonei quoted this post and found it to support a bad Mongoose, maybe I misunderstood him. I think it's right on target. I also don't find the suspicion about nova's opening post to be persuasive and I agree with her that nova's case on Mac is a better reason to suspect him, if one is inclined to suspect him.

Mongoose wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:12 pm

thellama73 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:06 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:53 am Ok thanks llama that's very helpful. Can you be more specific on what you are seeing in nova that causes you to call him bad? If you have done that and I missed it, my apologies.

Not a lot concrete. I found the initial "tired of losing" comment suspicious. Others have gone on to explain that away, but I don't know that I'm convinced. I don't like Nova's case on Mac. Very unconvincing to me. Call it a gut read if you like.

I find the latter allegation way way more persuasive than the former.

Linkcake

I thought this was a good look:

Mongoose wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:14 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:11 pm

Mongoose wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:05 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:28 am

Mongoose wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:23 am Who is left in the pool that I can lock? Is Mac available? Since Juliets and Sloonei were taken, I’ll pick him.

Only the cool kids can lock someone

???

The exercise was directed at my strongest town reads, to get down to a 3 player PoE using each other reads.

I'm interested though in who you would lock town, if all living players were available.

Spoiler: show

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:03 am Let's try something, Juliets and dunya.

Let's each "lock" another player as town, and see what PoE we would get. We can't lock the same player.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:11 am

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:05 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:04 am I'm picking Sloonei

ok I'm picking dunya

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:05 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:03 am Let's try something, Juliets and dunya.

Let's each "lock" another player as town, and see what PoE we would get. We can't lock the same player.

i'll lock juliets.

We can't lock each other (I wasn't chosen )

The point of it is to get down to a 3 player PoE using each others reads. You two as well as Sloonei are my strongest town reads at the moment. I might not be yours lol (looking at you Dunya), but let's find each other.

If I can only lock one, I’d pick Sloonei. That dude has played a fine game and his effort has been top notch. Reads as genuine and he was the first person I personally mentally locked as town.

I like this read on Colin.

Mongoose wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:34 pm I have literally one moment: I never felt catastrophically about Colin, so I feel better about him in the moment . He came back, alert with alacrity and I appreciate that. Subject to change, just like any read.

Just a reminder that Colin also read Mongoose as town and in a previous post had said he just didn't get the case on her. I didn't either at that time. Mongoose's reply also looks like an "in the moment" thing she would say, not as something calculated.

Mongoose wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:30 am

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:57 pm I see a ton of authenticity in Mongoose’s game. We’re kindred spirits of being in over our heads.

YESSS you pulled the words right out of my brain

Maybe Mongoose has addressed this issue, I'll see in her later posts but it doesn't seem in character for her to doubt Luna so quickly and right out of the gate:

Mongoose wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:33 am

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:16 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:41 pm If juliets is telling the truth, then we either have a civilian 1-shot doublevoter and a mafia roleblocker in addition to her, or she’s the only non-vanilla role in the game.

If the former, then it might be prudent for the doublevoter to claim now. We could have two pseudo-cleared civilians instead of a single dubious cop claim. I think that would be more valuable than a single concealed double vote. The mafia roleblocker is essentially powerless now, assuming they can only block night actions.

Well okay. I'm the doublevoter.

Are we sure about that?

I like this look:

Mongoose wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:43 am

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:39 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:20 am I just spent an entire night not sleeping so I might be insane right now, but I think you’re both town.

Ok, after reading the Nova/Mac drama, where Mac accuses Nova of being teammates with Sloonei, Sloonei says this. And it looks like something a teammate would totally do.

I GET this read but I just cannot fathom Sloonei being mafia. I think I could be talked into Nova (although not just because he won’t get off Mac’s ass - we’ve all been super wrong before with needless civ on civ violence ), but I just can’t with Sloonei

Linki

Not afraid to disagree with Mac's case. I like this. Seems like someone though said she and llama started setting nova up in day 2 for the next Lynch. I'll see where this goes.

Mongoose wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:48 am

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:09 pm You know, I sort of think nova stood up to Mac's suspicions pretty well. Instead of conceding to Mac's questioning, or changing his opinions to get on Mac's side, he dug his feet in hard, and fired back with every reason to do so. I'm just not convinced he's scum because of it.

That’s a fair point. (Nova is my next reddish pick after Luna, so I’m following this along closely as well)

This post is getting too long so I'm going to break it here.

My beef with Mongoose’s reads is more comprehensive than it is individual objections to specific posts (though I did think one particular post about Luna was especiallt shady). Mongoose’s suspicions have been pretty selective: she gods after Luna and Nova with almost nothing to say in their favor. She has almost no criticism for anybody else. She hints at being suspicious of llama a couple of times, but at no point has she actually pursued him or engaged him in meaningful discussion.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:11 pm My beef with Mongoose’s reads is more comprehensive than it is individual objections to specific posts (though I did think one particular post about Luna was especiallt shady). Mongoose’s suspicions have been pretty selective: she gods after Luna and Nova with almost nothing to say in their favor. She has almost no criticism for anybody else. She hints at being suspicious of llama a couple of times, but at no point has she actually pursued him or engaged him in meaningful discussion.

ok got it.

Mongoose wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:01 pm

thellama73 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:58 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:41 pm I don't like how Luna's voters aren't considering the matrix episode at all.

I misread the matrix at first as well. I haven't played this type of game in a couple of years. I agree it's worth considering, but I just can't believe a civ would have made the post I highlighted from Luna.

I also misread it. I was begging anyone early on in the game to explain how a matrix worked, so I didn't get it until literally the moment when i was posting such in the thread.

I've literally never seen matrix in a game before, so thought we used the whole 3x3 since they are nearly that many players (at the start anyway).

Mongoose, I am reading your ISO and didn't see any posts in the game where you are begging people to explain the matrix. Did I miss that? I'm worried that you maybe begged your partner in btsc to explain it to you.

Point number 2 here is Sloonei making a point about Mongoose and llama. Below that is Mongoose's response.


Sloonei: "2. They've both expressed vague soft sort-of-suspicion of each other but not for a second has either one seriously pursued the other as a candidate"

Mongoose: "There were seemingly better candidates. I was far from the only person to suspect Luna. The game is young."

[mention]Mongoose[/mention], it may only be N2 but I think almost everyone has made the point that we (the civs) are now in a critical situation, and were in that critical situation before the Day 2 Lynch. One more lynched civ and the Mafia have won the game. Why would you use "The game is young" to explain why you haven't answered to llama's suspicions?

Ok, I didn't post any more points on Mongoose besides the final two because I was concentrating on the big picture. I don't like that she has let llama call her bad without standing up to him like she stood up to dunya. I'm worried about that post that looks like a slip but will wait for her to explain it. And I don't understand her comment about the game is young but will wait for her to explain it. I can at least conceive of a bad Mongoose but I don't have on my happy face while considering it.

Is Mongoose/Nova compatiblegh?