The Syndicate

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:33 pm And Golden, in stead of hemming and hawing about how many people are getting lynched Day 2, maybe, if you are good, you could start working out who should be lynched.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:33 pm For a long time in RYM Mafia, double-lynches were a normal possibility. They were incorporated into every game because it's just how it worked, and we didn't really consider other options. That was Mafia.

Eventually we had to discontinue them when we realized how unfairly town-slanted they were.

Now we're being offered a triple lynch, and I am being told that it favors mafia. I literally live in bizarro world, and am so irritated that I seriously considering being replaced. It's leading the vote thankfully.

Golden wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:39 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:33 pm For a long time in RYM Mafia, double-lynches were a normal possibility. They were incorporated into every game because it's just how it worked, and we didn't really consider other options. That was Mafia.

Eventually we had to discontinue them when we realized how unfairly town-slanted they were.

Now we're being offered a triple lynch, and I am being told that it favors mafia. I literally live in bizarro world, and am so irritated that I seriously considering being replaced. It's leading the vote thankfully.

You can’t do math. It’s a parabola.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:39 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:39 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:33 pm For a long time in RYM Mafia, double-lynches were a normal possibility. They were incorporated into every game because it's just how it worked, and we didn't really consider other options. That was Mafia.

Eventually we had to discontinue them when we realized how unfairly town-slanted they were.

Now we're being offered a triple lynch, and I am being told that it favors mafia. I literally live in bizarro world, and am so irritated that I seriously considering being replaced. It's leading the vote thankfully.

You can’t do math. It’s a parabola.

What?

Golden wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 10:33 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 10:22 pm

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 10:17 pm Guys, I'm a baseball player. I don't understand what you do.

If you could have three Day phases in a row, would you take them? If not, why not?

Thanks Epi, this argument is reinforcing my confidence in this decision -- it's really stupid not to take this opportunity, Jay's right about that and sorry Golden you're wrong for thinking it's stupid to do it. It's statistically, computably, objectively a better chance for the civs compared to a basic prototypical series of lynches and nightkills one-to-one. To be completely fair, this thought experiment of Epi's is not a perfect one again for the reason that it's condensed into a single phase of discussion and we wouldn't necessarily lynch the same people on three separate days and that it's a single vote spread so harder for the town to control all three lynches, but it's early in the game, there are a lot of us, I'm sure we can manage to get a set of 3 candidates that enough civs would like to vote for.

Nutella is bad and at the top of my hit list.

She’s pretending to engage but she’ll ‘hope’ in the face of good logic and agree that non-analogous situations are persuasive.

I don’t believe she is genuinely considering any alternative.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:43 pm Charlie Blackmoor, you don't know this yet but obi wan kenobi was a character from a moving picture story called Star Wars. Obi Wan Kenobo gets killed by Darth Vader and becomes a cool ghost and everyone loves him cus of his beard and his laser sword. Darth Vader is a mean robot-man voiced by James Earl Jones, who is an actor who also played a role in the movie Field of Dreams which is about baseball ghosts, so you'd probably like it.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:47 pm @Charlie Blackmon you'll be pleased to know a new emoji can be found in the post editing page. Enjoy.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:46 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 10:33 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 10:22 pm

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 10:17 pm Guys, I'm a baseball player. I don't understand what you do.

If you could have three Day phases in a row, would you take them? If not, why not?

Thanks Epi, this argument is reinforcing my confidence in this decision -- it's really stupid not to take this opportunity, Jay's right about that and sorry Golden you're wrong for thinking it's stupid to do it. It's statistically, computably, objectively a better chance for the civs compared to a basic prototypical series of lynches and nightkills one-to-one. To be completely fair, this thought experiment of Epi's is not a perfect one again for the reason that it's condensed into a single phase of discussion and we wouldn't necessarily lynch the same people on three separate days and that it's a single vote spread so harder for the town to control all three lynches, but it's early in the game, there are a lot of us, I'm sure we can manage to get a set of 3 candidates that enough civs would like to vote for.

Nutella is bad and at the top of my hit list.

She’s pretending to engage but she’ll ‘hope’ in the face of good logic and agree that non-analogous situations are persuasive.

I don’t believe she is genuinely considering any alternative.

I agree with this. Not just because of the way she has acted in the debate tonight but I have some concerns about things she did yesterday. I'll clarify more after I finish my catch up.

Lini @Golden How do you feel about Option #4?

Golden wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:40 pm Jay, imagine you have a triple lynch at lylo. What way does that lean?

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:47 pm Bop it.

Shout it.

So the day ended four hours early? I’m confused

Bop it.

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:57 pm Hell, I gain an advantage if someone should pull or bop me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:55 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:40 pm Jay, imagine you have a triple lynch at lylo. What way does that lean?

How many people are alive at Lylo? There have to be enough people to place votes such that some kind of three-leader arrangement is possible. A 2v1 triple lynch, if actually triggered, would kill everyone and result in a draw. A 4v3 triple lynch would be a problem because one mafia vote can dictate a top-three position. A 5v3 triple lynch would be pro-civilian, as they'd have enough votes to control.

We're talking about Day 2 with 31 players alive though. If Mac set up the numbers for a balanced 2 mafia team closed setup the way he did years back in LOTR mafia, then the number of mafia on each team would reflect the balanced numbers for one team against the present civilian numbers -- in this case perhaps around 18-5-5 with 3 independents (or something in that general vicinity, accounting for his promised bastardization). 18 civilians can do whatever they want with a triple lynch. Any mafia influence will also inherently be affected by their own hunting as well, as they're eager to lynch the opposing team.

The only control definitely lost is the ability to have one player completely dominate the poll (perhaps getting lynched by a 15 vote margin or something) -- shit that is generally bad for the civilians anyway.

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:57 pm Hell, I gain an advantage if someone should pull or bop me.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:55 pm @Quin if I send you some beeroots will you play a game with me?

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 10:17 pm Guys, I'm a baseball player. I don't understand what you do.

If you could have three Day phases in a row, would you take them? If not, why not?

Golden wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:01 am At lylo you’re already relying on every living civilian agreeing on a baddie but 5 v 3 is pro-civilian even though you’d be relying on every civilian correctly agreeing on two baddies and splitting their votes correctly?

You’re dreaming if that’s your idea of pro-civilian. In such a case you are evidently better off taking it one step at a time.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:05 am

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 10:17 pm Guys, I'm a baseball player. I don't understand what you do.

If you could have three Day phases in a row, would you take them? If not, why not?

Duh.

But that's not what this is. This is three concurrent Day phases where each player only votes in one of them.

Sounds a lot shittier, right?

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:05 am

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 10:17 pm Guys, I'm a baseball player. I don't understand what you do.

If you could have three Day phases in a row, would you take them? If not, why not?

Duh.

But that's not what this is. This is three concurrent Day phases where each player only votes in one of them.

Sounds a lot shittier, right?

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:06 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:05 am

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 10:17 pm Guys, I'm a baseball player. I don't understand what you do.

If you could have three Day phases in a row, would you take them? If not, why not?

Duh.

But that's not what this is. This is three concurrent Day phases where each player only votes in one of them.

Sounds a lot shittier, right?

I don't think so. Not at all. It makes people take a stand.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:06 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:01 am At lylo you’re already relying on every living civilian agreeing on a baddie but 5 v 3 is pro-civilian even though you’d be relying on every civilian correctly agreeing on two baddies and splitting their votes correctly?

You’re dreaming if that’s your idea of pro-civilian. In such a case you are evidently better off taking it one step at a time.

In any LyLo with more than one evildoer alive, the civilians have to run through multiple cycles to perfection to win. A triple lynch affords them a chance to reduce that to fewer cycles, perhaps even one. If POE is at work and the civilians vote with any semblance of strategy, then a 2-mafia/1-civilian lynch result is entirely within reach -- and that'd net a 4 vs 1 situation. LyLo just became not LyLo in one move, and it wasn't even perfect execution. They gave up one civilian to a mafia voting block and still gained ground. If they screw the pooch it is analogous to lynching the wrong bastard at 5v3 anyway.

Day 2 is not LyLo. It is not remotely close. Why are we talking about this?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:06 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:05 am

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 10:17 pm Guys, I'm a baseball player. I don't understand what you do.

If you could have three Day phases in a row, would you take them? If not, why not?

Duh.

But that's not what this is. This is three concurrent Day phases where each player only votes in one of them.

Sounds a lot shittier, right?

Shittier than three consecutive day phases? Sure.

Shittier than one ordinary day phase? No way.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:06 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:05 am

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 10:17 pm Guys, I'm a baseball player. I don't understand what you do.

If you could have three Day phases in a row, would you take them? If not, why not?

Duh.

But that's not what this is. This is three concurrent Day phases where each player only votes in one of them.

Sounds a lot shittier, right?

Shittier than three consecutive day phases? Sure.

Shittier than one ordinary day phase? No way.

Golden wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:10 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:06 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:01 am At lylo you’re already relying on every living civilian agreeing on a baddie but 5 v 3 is pro-civilian even though you’d be relying on every civilian correctly agreeing on two baddies and splitting their votes correctly?

You’re dreaming if that’s your idea of pro-civilian. In such a case you are evidently better off taking it one step at a time.

In any LyLo with more than one evildoer alive, the civilians have to run through multiple cycles to perfection to win. A triple lynch affords them a chance to reduce that to fewer cycles, perhaps even one. If POE is at work and the civilians vote with any semblance of strategy, then a 2-mafia/1-civilian lynch result is entirely within reach -- and that'd net a 4 vs 1 situation. LyLo just became not LyLo in one move, and it wasn't even perfect execution. They gave up one civilian to a mafia voting block and still gained ground. If they screw the pooch it is analogous to lynching the wrong bastard at 5v3 anyway.

Day 2 is not LyLo. It is not remotely close. Why are we talking about this?

Oh I see how it is. You can’t do math, but you’re so mad I’m calling you out on it that you aren’t willing to be stepped through actual probability.

Jay, you’re wrong. Flat wrong. I can do probability, very well. I’m trying to carefully step through why you’re wrong, but your head is in the sand.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:09 am

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:06 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:05 am

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 10:17 pm Guys, I'm a baseball player. I don't understand what you do.

If you could have three Day phases in a row, would you take them? If not, why not?

Duh.

But that's not what this is. This is three concurrent Day phases where each player only votes in one of them.

Sounds a lot shittier, right?

I don't think so. Not at all. It makes people take a stand.

This is a decent argument. It's also nothing to do with the one I refuted.

Triple lynch is not three Day phases in a row, full stop.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:33 pm For a long time in RYM Mafia, double-lynches were a normal possibility. They were incorporated into every game because it's just how it worked, and we didn't really consider other options. That was Mafia.

Eventually we had to discontinue them when we realized how unfairly town-slanted they were.

Now we're being offered a triple lynch, and I am being told that it favors mafia. I literally live in bizarro world, and am so irritated that I seriously considering being replaced. It's leading the vote thankfully.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:11 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:10 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:06 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:01 am At lylo you’re already relying on every living civilian agreeing on a baddie but 5 v 3 is pro-civilian even though you’d be relying on every civilian correctly agreeing on two baddies and splitting their votes correctly?

You’re dreaming if that’s your idea of pro-civilian. In such a case you are evidently better off taking it one step at a time.

In any LyLo with more than one evildoer alive, the civilians have to run through multiple cycles to perfection to win. A triple lynch affords them a chance to reduce that to fewer cycles, perhaps even one. If POE is at work and the civilians vote with any semblance of strategy, then a 2-mafia/1-civilian lynch result is entirely within reach -- and that'd net a 4 vs 1 situation. LyLo just became not LyLo in one move, and it wasn't even perfect execution. They gave up one civilian to a mafia voting block and still gained ground. If they screw the pooch it is analogous to lynching the wrong bastard at 5v3 anyway.

Day 2 is not LyLo. It is not remotely close. Why are we talking about this?

Oh I see how it is. You can’t do math, but you’re so mad I’m calling you out on it that you aren’t willing to be stepped through actual probability.

Jay, you’re wrong. Flat wrong. I can do probability, very well. I’m trying to carefully step through why you’re wrong, but your head is in the sand.

You didn't say a fucking thing about probability. You called it a parabola.

If you have numbers, then put them in the thread or shut the hell up.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:55 pm

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:47 pm Bop it.

Shout it.

So the day ended four hours early? I’m confused

Bop it.

Strange device, do you gain advantages should someone pull or bop you?

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:13 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 11:33 pm For a long time in RYM Mafia, double-lynches were a normal possibility. They were incorporated into every game because it's just how it worked, and we didn't really consider other options. That was Mafia.

Eventually we had to discontinue them when we realized how unfairly town-slanted they were.

Now we're being offered a triple lynch, and I am being told that it favors mafia. I literally live in bizarro world, and am so irritated that I seriously considering being replaced. It's leading the vote thankfully.

I know you have this stuff memorized, so when exactly was that? I don’t recall that being the norm at all.

Golden wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:13 am Why not just ask for a replacement since you're so irritated?

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:12 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:09 am

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:06 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:05 am

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Sat May 19, 2018 10:17 pm Guys, I'm a baseball player. I don't understand what you do.

If you could have three Day phases in a row, would you take them? If not, why not?

Duh.

But that's not what this is. This is three concurrent Day phases where each player only votes in one of them.

Sounds a lot shittier, right?

I don't think so. Not at all. It makes people take a stand.

This is a decent argument. It's also nothing to do with the one I refuted.

Triple lynch is not three Day phases in a row, full stop.

Triple lynch requires two mafia teams to dance.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:15 am

Golden wrote: ↑Sun May 20, 2018 12:13 am Why not just ask for a replacement since you're so irritated?

I'm trying to play a Mafia game, and I am promoting the strategy that I believe in the most. I haven't insulted you and you're insulting me. What the fuck?

I'll talk to the MoD. Whatever.