The Syndicate

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:47 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:43 pm tutuu town
spf prob town
martin and nanook light townleans
sloonei, hally, thunal have done nothing ai, all of their posts so far can easily be in their scumranges imo

What have all these town reads done that is outside of their respective scumranges?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:46 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:42 am ok i will admit something - pre game i was fantasizing about finally randing scum, and i rly wanted to cuz i thought i had great chances to win if i did, since i expected / hoped most ppl would townread me like they always do and choose me to be the gun carrier all game, and that would give me excuse as scum to not die. cuz when i finally roll scum my biggest concern would be to explain how i am alive despite being so towny

so i was already constructing some posts to make around mid-game if i was scum about how i offer u guys to not put me as the gun carrier to ease off ur paranoia but i would feel sad if u choose to do so

so now its all getting mixed up. since im actually town, but i thought SO much about what i'd do as scum that the two different agendas are now mixing in my head. im not sure if i were to express sadness now if yall wanan be paranoid of me if that sadness will be genuine or is that habit from my prep talk about what i'd do if im scum.

i dunno whats the point of this post honestly sorry if its a bit fluffy. but. i thought about it so i click submit. a town must always be honest!

i guess my point was that d1 might be rly important for us to select someone we all agree is lock town. the other towniest players are gonna die every night. so like. could u argue day 1 is most important in this game? cuz it ... greatly impacts f3, if it ever comes down to it? yah. maybe. hmm

this is town.

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:45 pm i just hacked into dizzy's account and read the role pms (sorry)

tutuu - vanilla TOWN
Hally - vanilla TOWN
Long Con - vanilla TOWN
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - vanilla TOWN
Sloonei - vanilla TOWN
novaselinenever - vanilla TOWN
staypositivefriend - vanilla TOWN
nutella - vanilla TOWN
MartinGG99 - vanilla TOWN
Alison - vanilla TOWN

Carotenoid- Mafia GOON
Thunal33 - Mafia GOON
JaggedJimmyJay - Mafia GOON

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:17 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:06 pm DOES ANYONE OBJECT TO SPF RECEIVING THE FEWEST VOTES?

I make the letters big because clearly folks were displeased about voting hoopla last hour, so let's just get it sorted a'ight. Maybe y'all did already and I haven't seen it yet

If not spf then I’d go for Hally or tutuu. I don’t mind protecting any of those three.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:27 pm I do not feel like tutuu would introduce her theory about Hally and then tell me she wasn't gonna do anything with it if she was mafia. That just reads like "I'm town, idk you do the work." In fact, that's practically paraphrasing what she actually said to me.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:44 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:37 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:10 pm https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/jUskGwbqFiLe our quick topic

thanks.

I'd agree that this looks good for spf, but I wouldn't put it past LC (and probably SPF as well, but i've never seen her scum game) to stage some interactions like this.

I will say that LC looks like he just put himself on lockdown: he wasn't gonna give us a chance to read anything new from him in there.

Tutuu's reaction to being placed in the grasslands looks authentic.

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:13 pm IT HAS COME TO MY ATTENTION THAT 3 MEMBERS OF THIS PEACEFUL VILLAGE HAVE STARTED ARSONING FIRES EVERY NIGHT

I WILL EXTINGUISH YOUR FIRES WITH MY BURNNG FIREFIGHTER'S SOUL

THE ONLY THING THAT SHOULD BE BURNING IS YOUR HEART, BAKAS

ONE OF THOSE ARSONISTS IS ...

...

...

CAROTTE OR SLOONEI

THE SECOND ONE OF THOSE ARSONISTS IS ....

..

..

..

MARTIN OR THUNAL

AND THE LAST ARSONIST IS ...

..

..

..

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:12 pm I was going to quote all the important Sloonei posts about Tutuu but there's way too many. He confidently townreads Tutuu for most of the game in a way that would be really bold to do to a teammate and feels like pocketing to me. However, he gave Tutuu an orange read (which I didn't quote) for a brief moment when Tutuu suspicion was viable before turning around to townread her again. I don't think this is teammate interaction, I think this is "pocketing unless the suspicion is viable" interaction.

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:21 pm growing up and changing urself is fun. i keep alternating beween scumread sux townread rox but now i have no townreads and wanna do a scummie

i wanna say i lightly scumread u sloonei boyo

(i was about to begin my next line with butter my biscuits but then i googled it and its actually something sexual WTF????? i have used it before in a completely innocent way, cuz that unit from starcraft 1 says it, the marine i think, wtf?)

ANYWAY.

SLOONEI.

do NOT butter my biscuits

but i wanna say i lightly scumread u cuz

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:54 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:48 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:46 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:33 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:32 pm can you articulate your sloonei townread that you had off of his first post nutella? (its ok if u cant, i cant articulate mine)

i didnt say i townread him i said spf did

nutella town

why do u tr nutella for that post?

She’s not letting her reads be influenced by the question. Her original statement re:sloonei was ambiguojs and she didn’t let it be construed as something that it wasn’t. That seems like a good strong nutella-town mindset.

i think this read is a stretch. nutella corrected my misunerstanding thats all. ur townreading her cuz ur assuming wolf!nutella would just go along with my misunderstanding? and she would now pretend she townreads sloonei when she originally didnt want to fake that, all cuz i misunderstood her? u wot mate?

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:21 pm as dangerous as night kill analysis is (i know), the only 2 benefactors from alison night kill are martin (freeze the lock townread) and spf (keep alive all the ppl townreading her) imo

its silly when i put it like that tho rofl. im saying martin benefited cuz he killed the person townreading him and im saying spf benefited by NOT killing the people townreading her. and yet it makes sense. lol. idk whatever

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:12 pm let me try that again

pink colored is from spf's wall

blue colored is the one post of mine earlier in the game where i quoted it

normal color are my normal words

"it is a little weird that tutuu goes from putting a ton of pressure on sloonei to townreading sloonei on viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=675563#p675563 - tutuu and sloonei had no interactions between tutuu scumreading sloonei and tutuu townreading sloonei, so what changed? "

what changed was that i was tunneling carotte mafia. and i thought she had a post where she TMI'd sloonei town. so thats the only reason i started townreading sloonei. after she flipped town i went back to scumreading him

"when thunal asks tutuu to break down her tr on sloonei on viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=675582#p675582, tutuu says that she doesn't know and just put sloonei down there because she felt like it. shrug"

this is not true. i said im pairing (1 wolf between martin/thunal) and (1 wolf between sloonei/carotte). i made my picks

thunal asked me why i picked thunal over martin and why i picked carotte over sloonei. i gave some reason for thunal/martin, and as for my choice between sloonei/carotte i said i dunno, i had no tangible reason to decide which one is scummier, i just thought its carotte. the point was that i thought there is 1 wolf between them and went with carotte over sloonei, i didnt townread sloonei for no reason

"tutuu goes back to fosing sloonei toward the end of d1, and even puts a vote on him. her explanation on viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=676463#p676463 is alright - but why did she go from sr'ing him to tr'ing him to sr'ing him again? where is the thought process behind that progression?"

wtf spf? it literally says so in the post?

'He is extremely scummy and i was sure carotte was mafia which would clear him. Well she aint, sheriff. Also i never scunread u proactively i just townread everyone else. Maybe ill still find myself scumreading u but not rn"

is what i said. why are u saying "where is the thought process behind the progression" when its literally right there in the post of mine u quoted?

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:27 pm spf is mafia because she was F R O Z E N in the treehouse

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:17 pm if martin flips town and u guys decide not to kill me next im tunneling spf. im going ALL IN. maybe shes just tired / or maybe im biased because i was in the driver seat of the interactions and they make sense to me / i remember them well, and from her pov its not so clear, but atm to me it looks (to me) like spf's analysis looked surface-level and i didnt find it towny

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:34 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:27 pm spf is mafia because she was F R O Z E N in the treehouse

i cant believe u caught me like this

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:34 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:17 pm if martin flips town and u guys decide not to kill me next im tunneling spf. im going ALL IN. maybe shes just tired / or maybe im biased because i was in the driver seat of the interactions and they make sense to me / i remember them well, and from her pov its not so clear, but atm to me it looks (to me) like spf's analysis looked surface-level and i didnt find it towny

what specific points looked surface level to u?

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:38 pm i feel like the same things are happening again

tutuu always gets tinfoiled for being not tutuu-y enough in some way

spf always gets tinfoiled for being spf-y in some way

but neither of them are ever mafia

we are constantly reliving the same game over and over again

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:39 pm tutuu is an achromatic alt

god that sentence is so hilarious to type out

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:39 pm tutuu is an achromatic alt

god that sentence is so hilarious to type out

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:42 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:39 pm tutuu is an achromatic alt

god that sentence is so hilarious to type out

she is an achromatic alt except i cant see myself getting mad at her like i did with achromatic, she's too wholesome

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:46 pm that’s exactly what achro would say

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:47 pm i dont know who is this achro guy u people keep mentioning

but i bet he is a handsome devil

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:50 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:47 pm i dont know who is this achro guy u people keep mentioning

but i bet he is a handsome devil

damn it’s less funny if you don’t know him

he was a player in our semifinals game who tried tinfoil spf and she was basically like “fuck off” and it was so savage and great. i would say he is the polar opposite of your personality

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:52 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:50 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:47 pm i dont know who is this achro guy u people keep mentioning

but i bet he is a handsome devil

damn it’s less funny if you don’t know him

he was a player in our semifinals game who tried tinfoil spf and she was basically like “fuck off” and it was so savage and great. i would say he is the polar opposite of your personality

ooh okay lol

ive heard of him, i was just trying to play along with your joke of "thats definitely what achro would say "

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:36 pm Alright. So I'm all caught up. And that took a fair bit longer than I thought.....

Oh well. Anyways,

@Sloonei When you get the time:

You discussed a bit about the Thunal-on-Carotenoid interaction, but I was wondering if you had any thoughts about Carotenoid?

Please note the point of this question isn't related to other player's pushes on to you.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:12 pm Responses to page 9.

Spoiler: show

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:26 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:22 pm Oh yea i just thought of this

@JaggedJimmyJay jimbo jax jeraldo, u said how alison had the false bravado thing, what about nook?

I didn't get the same impression from Nanook, particularly given that his "bravado" (e.g. the just give me the gun stuff) didn't take the shape of a read on anyone. It was just general conceit in his usual form. What I like more about Nanook is that I think his reads look authentic -- especially his hard town read on novaselinenever, which preceded the general consensus we're seeing on nova now.

I think I can sheep this. Still though, I don't think they should be the one to receive the doc save and gun. I would prefer it to be tutuu as I've said before in my past few spoiled posts.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:46 pm Thunal is a she. And I think you're overblowing the weirdness of that, I just assumed she hadn't realized about the name and didn't particularly remember anything from Carotte hence not having a townread on her lol. It's not the type of inconsistency I'm concerned with. Do you think there's something scum indicative about it?

I will admit, I've been guilty of doing the word "he" improperly once or twice this game. I just didn't post and apologize about it in order to conserve postage that may or may not be necessary later on for me.

Though I've been working on using "they" a lot over the past year or so, as a default pronoun to use.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:50 pm General takes on Martin would be appreciated.

I think a few general reads have been given out/sprinkled over the course of several pages. I was only there for about the first 100 posts or so then I had IRL to deal with until I came back to find ~500 posts made in the game so far.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:00 pm Am I the only one town reading Sloonei lol?

Aside from you it kinda feels like I am the only one not-scum-reading them.

It feels like his moves, statements, or arguments have been too awkward to be mafia/scum at the moment.

Also the fact that he had to disappear for a bit and posted about not being having the time to focus on the accusations laid against him until recently makes me think there may be external factors at play here that's distorting his town play....as town.

I don't have a good town read on him, but I do think its strong enough to warrant not being the D1/N1 execution target from my point of view.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:33 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:50 am thanks. i’d like to hear you talk more about the people in yellow as well as those in your poe

Long Con: This is going without saying tbh. I am reserving them from d1 considerations on the trust of others who say that Long Con normally plays like this. However, I did quite agree with Nova's point earlier about him entering the thread with a host quote.

Sloonei: I don't think any of their actions have been particularly scummy, and it feels as though at two separate times this game they had awkward or confusing moments and that, in a way, they were too awkward or confusing to a wolf to willingly walk into. I mean, just the stretch that Sloonei had to make and justify just for a town-read of nutella seems like it was sincere. Although, I am eager for their thoughts on the game. I will give some exception though to the fact that he recently played in the champs.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:17 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:14 pm he’s probably appealing to me that way because he knows alison’s case comes from a villager

Oh, so she's villager but not trustworthy enough for you?

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:18 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:16 pm the post didn't even make sense, he's saying to trust alison if he flips town because they can't be wolf partners? doesn't that mean we should trust alison more if he flips wolf? like idgi it feels almost like a slip it's so wolfy hahahaha

Alison has argued that I'm town.

If shes wrong on that read of me being villager yet she's town

Then that by extension makes all of their future arguments less trust-worthy.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:10 pm Not having a good townread on Sloonei yet also not wanting him elimed isn't a great look for Martin. That's exactly what I would expect from a read from Sloonei's teammate, and the TWTBAW argument is an easy one for a teammate to make.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:17 pm It feels like Martin's appealing to authority since he knows Alison is town

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:22 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:17 pm It feels like Martin's appealing to authority since he knows Alison is town

That aint feeling lol

I knew because that's how confident I was in her being town.

Feel free to frame that as scummy after my green flip.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:53 pm how did nanook interact with sloonei?

viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=675258#p675258 nanook softly defends sloonei here when some early pressure is on him

viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=675825#p675825 nanook suggests giving the gun to sloonei in this post - i'd be interested in hearing why nanook was townreading sloonei so much early on

it's interesting that nanook posits that one of jay/sloonei is town depending on their reads develop on each other on viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=676599#p676599 - but he suggested that sloonei should be given the gun just a couple of posts earlier. if nanook wanted sloonei to have the gun, then he surely thought that sloonei was town, right? that's why i don't understand why his level of confidence is so different in his list of reads

viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=677289#p677289 is kind of hedgy

viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=678817#p678817 is alright, but i cant give nanook much town equity for it when it was in a position where sloonei was almost 100% being chopped no matter what

how did sloonei interact with nanook?

viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=676607#p676607 is the first direct interaction that i could find between sloonei and nanook, and it was on page 3 of sloonei's iso. i don't know what to make of that

sloonei broadly throws out nanook's name as someone he doesn't have a read on and someone he wants to put in the POE on viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=676814#p676814

sloonei dodges the question a little bit when jagged asks him to talk about nanook on viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=677274#p677274

more hedginess toward nanook on viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=678311#p678311

viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=678778#p678778 represents a heel turn for sloonei's treatment of nanook - he goes from nullreading nanook and vaguely shading him to outright saying that nanook might be lc's partner

viewtopic.php?f=273&t=1958&p=678823#p678823 is so awkward

conclusion: the story of a nanook and sloonei scum team would involve sloonei ignoring nanook for the vast majority of the game and then throwing a lot of shade toward him at the very end when he was being chopped. while this isn't something i can rule out as a possibility, it doesn't feel that likely to me? i don't know - when i look at these interactions, it shows me that nanook/sloonei do have scum equity, but it just doesn't feel like a good fit to me for whatever reason - i get the sense that sloonei would have made his interactions with his partners a bit more cleaner than what we see from his treatment of nanook

Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:20 am

Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:04 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:17 pm The bolded also seems like Martin's telling people not to trust Alison's reads (and Alison scumread Sloonei and was reconsidering me at that point).

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:19 pm

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:10 pm Not having a good townread on Sloonei yet also not wanting him elimed isn't a great look for Martin. That's exactly what I would expect from a read from Sloonei's teammate, and the TWTBAW argument is an easy one for a teammate to make.

Sigh.

I'm being attacked just because how I interacted with 2 people and that they just happened to be scum -_-

Not like it'll change anything but tbh as a townie I'm not supposed to be aware of how I interact with people will be perceived in the future, and maybe that's why it looks bad all-around.

Thankfully we don't have to do a "martin is scum based on interaction" parade after catching the 3rd scum because the game would've ended by then....after I've flipped green atp probably.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:09 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:57 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:56 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:26 pm @everyone - here's a question that might not make sense but that i consider important to the gamestate right now:

how confident do you feel about your reads right now? how much faith do you have that your assessment of the gamestate is correct?

88+ % in my reads. I’m only putting confident reads into the thread this game.

Nanook what is my alignment?

Currently thinking whatever the opposite of jay’s is. I’m not very good at reading you independently so

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:28 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:09 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:57 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:56 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:26 pm @everyone - here's a question that might not make sense but that i consider important to the gamestate right now:

how confident do you feel about your reads right now? how much faith do you have that your assessment of the gamestate is correct?

88+ % in my reads. I’m only putting confident reads into the thread this game.

Nanook what is my alignment?

Currently thinking whatever the opposite of jay’s is. I’m not very good at reading you independently so

This is a weird thing to leave out of an interaction analysis!

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:24 pm but posts like this just make me wanna be more suspicious of you - i really dont like ate or posts that use emotional language like this (although i do the same thing sometimes, lol). could you break down for me why you are confident that tutuu/nanook is the correct POE? are u not concerned at all about a deepwolf?

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:38 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:41 am The POE is small enough that for Sloonei not to be scum would mean that there are two deepwolves. I think that's really hard for mafia to have in general, and I think if they did have two deepwolves they would have enough clout to convince everyone not to vote LC. Therefore there's only one deepwolf as most. Therefore Sloonei is scum.

If we accept this, I think the people with the highest deepwolf equity are nanook or tutuu. Both had strong D1s and D2s and then are doing less D3 after a scum exe. I don't think nanook has posted at all and tutuu has gone all-in on the "I am a sheep" thing. I still townread them individually and think this behavior is very well within their respective town ranges, but it's where I'd look first for a deepwolf.

Okay, this is (almost, not entirely) exactly my thoughts.

Also that I find

Nutella
SPF
Hally
Thunal
Alison

As more or less indisputably town (Except for maybe a Hally + SPF scum team, but similar to how Alison reasoned above I think they may have been able to help avoid an LC elimination for at least a day by, for example, pushing me harder on D2)

And that Nook is *plausibly* town on the basis of a vote on LC during a time where his vote would've conceivably make a difference.

I also didn't like the sheepy-attitude of Tutuu as of late. It kinda goes along with the "hey I'm flexible with you" sort of scum strategy in my opinion. Especially her day 1 reads list was all "hey I tr all these people, I find carotenoid scummy, and for my 2 other scum reads I just don't know but someone has to be scum". I mean like, its kinda of prolonging your reads list until you get a sense of where the thread is going and then posture your reads for that. I can understand her reasons for sheeping if she was honestly wrong about Long Con, but I just don't feel its plausible within the current game-state that she's town.

Anyways, I do feel like the last 2 scum are probably in Nook/Sloonei/Tutuu, with the most likely I'm feeling is Sloonei/Tutuu (However, I never really looked into Sloonei independently for scum plausibility I will admit).

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:33 pm Also, there's this post by me from the past:

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:34 pm In fact I'm almost sure that we're about to do a full 360 degrees on the questions I've been asked by people before and if that's the case I'll just start replying with quotes.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:32 pm also, i'm referring to a "couple of posts later" as in the posts in your ISO and not your posts in real-time. it's fine for your read to develop, but i didn't see a clear progression for how you townread sloonei in the beginning and then became more reluctant toward him early on. why did you initially want him to have the gun?