DFS Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Tangrowth]

I have a super busy day ahead of me, so my legacy reads will be coming at you all sometime real soon here. I've been working hard to make sure they're ready just in case I can't really devote any serious time before the deadline.

[Tangrowth]

LOCKTOWN SOCKFACE N1 Legacy Rainbow List

LOCKTOWN:
M Plus 7

99% confirmed town:
Russtifinko

98% confirmed town:
JaggedJimmyJay
Tsaiah
abyssum

Strong town:
Kylemii
MacDougall

Moderate town:
RobotNerd277

Slight town:
sprityo
Lunalee

Upper POE pool:
Marmot
Turnip Head
ColinIsCool

Lower POE pool:
DharmaHelper

Note that this is based on some relatively quick analysis and also on my thorough familiarity with the thread.

The way Russ went after Alien is either the greatest bus job I've ever seen or just a townie that was dead fucking right. I'm 99% sure it's the latter especially because I can just picture Russ adamantly arguing all of it in his voice even. I would pretty much just bet my reputation on him being town, but the bussing theory should still be considered just in case, especially because Russ is an incredibly capable player.

I would nearly bet my reputation too on Jay, Tsaiah, and abyssum being town as well. Not only were they all very town independent of their treatment of Alien, but I think when you actually dive into interactions with Alien, they look even better. Jay and Tsaiah both look spewed town by the way Alien treats them with TMI, especially Jay considering Alien buddied him the way he did. I really just don't see either treatment as hard defense of a teammate; it doesn't make sense to me. abyssum's treatment of Alien looks pretty good on her, especially when you check out her reads listl. Now... I've thoroughly considered the universes where each one of these players is a busser, and I still think they're possible even if incredibly unlikely. GTH right now I'd actually say abyssum would be my first choice for that, then Tsaiah, and then Jay. I know that may sound weird given Tsaiah's vote was actually not cast at all for most of the day period and could be bus potential, but I don't see it; she is just pure as fuck in the way she handles Alien just as she is with everything else. And if you go back and look at what abyssum actually said about Alien early in the game it could have been a way for her to defend a teammate and leave herself an open excuse for turning on him later (I'm sure Jay will pull this up in his analysis). Lol, I so don't believe that as I'm typing it though; it feels like suuuuch a stretch. So I think if we live in a crazy universe and a busser somehow sneaked into the top 4 reads here, GTH my money is on abyssum. But I really don't think that's the case at all. I'd say obviously continue to evaluate them for sure but only really worry about them if they're still around late in the game for some reason. You should absolutely still consider all of these players but seriously hesitate before looking to lynch any of them.

I am pretty sure Kyle and Mac are town. Again they both seem town rather independently of Alien, and I think Alien makes them both look better. If you check out the way Alien handles Kyle especially, it definitely reads like TMI. I also do think the way Mac was a serious alternative for D1 looks good on him as well as the way Alien commented on my various arguments re: Mac dogpee; it reads like Alien probably knew Mac was town. In terms of their votes, they are potential bus candidates, but of all the non confirmed bunch, they probably seem the least like bussing to me. It reads to me like both Kyle and Mac legitimately considered my meta comparisons and it informed their perspectives.

Alright, so I think RobotNerd is spewed town (yay TMI) by Alien, and this alone is why she is placed in moderate town. The way Alien talks about Robot also reads very similarly to the way scum Alien talked about a low hanging fruit townie (dichotomousCreator) in wild cards 1, and I originally thought that as well, but then we ended up MLing him anyway because he independently looked scummy. I'd hesitate to make that mistake again here. Nonetheless we must consider Robot on her own merits and consider the possibility that Alien was defending a teammate here.

I feel like these two slight town reads might be key to solving the game. I think sprityo looks pretty good although I am a bit torn on him upon reflection. Alien doesn't really talk about him much. In addition, sprityo might have been a real alternative on D1 but then between him and Mac I feel like Mac was the real alternative here so it makes me wonder if Alien had a teammate under fire on D1 and if that teammate was sprityo. I feel like his vote for Alien could have been a genuine townie just sheeping me and I think I like his thoughts about my case because they're very *upfront*, but I do see bus potential here. It's difficult to make sense of what is there in my mind. Then there's Luna. Luna either was genuinely wrong about Alien or it was a strange attempt at a power play to try to shift onto someone else; I'm torn between worlds here. I also wonder if Alien was shading Luna here which would indicate she was a town alternative but it also could be distancing I think. But I can never read Luna so you all can probably be better here. Unlocking sprityo and Lunalee might be your key to solving the game.

The POE all look bad in some way but none of them are slam dunk by any means. Marmot is an enigma. Turnip Head just looks real bad given his place on the Mac wagon (unless of course Mac actually is scum, then we have an interesting world here that needs to be considered), and Alien doesn't really do much of anything notable with Turnip Head, although what he does say about him in response to other players might be mild TMI. Colin generally looks good on his own merits and he would be placed higher, but Alien's treatment of him is uninspiring to nonexistent; specifically, I feel like Alien just sort of throws Colin in the town group within that four-person grouping in his player salad reads post, and of those names if any one of them is a teammate GTH I think that's the player Alien had the least basis to town read so it's probably Colin. Add to that Colin's vote definitely has bus potential. I think he needs to just be resolved probably. DharmaHelper definitely looks the worst to me although there's still room for a town DH universe still. GTH I think the way Alien treated DH with respect to Jay's wall reads like a teammate talking about another teammate. Otherwise their interactions are super uninspiring but could go either way.

Right now I'm... personally probably 80% sure this POE wins us the game, with potentially one straggler up there in the town reads somewhere. I think a straggler all the way up in the nearly confirmed towns would be a crazy universe for sure but theoretically possible so make sure to at least evaluate further and consider it. I would say prioritize figuring out MacDougall, sprityo, and Lunalee. If you can figure out those players, I think we pretty much have this game in the bag via POE even with some MLs in there. Regardless, we need to make sure to turn over every single stone regardless. I'm not sure I will be around again to participate in that myself, but if I am I will do everything I can as well to ensure this. I need every single one of you townies to band together and accomplish this in case I'm not around. Let's not let a strong start slip away. I believe in us.

Unfortunately, this is all I have time for; I would have pointed out and linked other specific posts but I just didn't get around to them. I may be around later for some other posts, but because I don't know with certainty, I really wanted to make sure I completed this in the event of my impending death tonight. My request if I do die is that you all just please do everything you can. The effort I've seen already is just so commendable from so many of you. Let's keep our eye on the prize. I nonetheless feel confident that you all will. And most importantly, enjoy the game.

And lastly, especially if this happens to be my last post in this game, I just want to emphasize how much of an incredibly enjoyable experience this has been with you all. I really am so beyond elated that our four new players decided to take me up on my offer to play here and that they all enjoy being here. They are definitely at the top of my favorite people I've met via Champs. And otherwise it's been really just amazing to play with all of my Syndicate friends as well, and DH and Russ especially are nice blasts from the past. I really do appreciate and love you all. I love to win mafia games more than nearly anything, but what I love even more about the game is that it gives me an opportunity to interact with all of you, and that is why I sink so much of my time into these games.

Locktown sockface signing out.

[ColinIsCool]

If the mafia kill MP tonight, they're fucking idiots.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of alien and Marmot

Things alien said to/about Marmot

Spoiler: show

Colin - light Town although I don't remember why I have that in my head
Kyle - I don't remember any of their posts, null read
Marmot - Same as Kyle
Robot - Null, nothing alignment-indicative so far
Russ - Light Town because their posts accusing me felt genuine actually
Spirit - Same as Kyle and Marmot
Turnip - Same as Robot

Neutral
Marmot - I didn't think they'd posted but aby said they have 8 posts

Oh wait I think I may have seen Marmot post before but I thought they were a host due to their name colour lol

Poop.

Spoiler: show

COLIN TOWN
JAY TOWN
LUNA TOWN
M PLUS 7 SCUM
RUSS SCUM
SPRIT NO IDEA NOBODY'S TELLING ME THE CASE ON THEM
MAC TOWN
ROBOT TOWN
DH MAFIA
umm, give me more names

He didn't even try to fake a GTH read on Marmot.

~~~

Things Marmot said to/about alien

Spoiler: show

COLINISCOOL
INFECTED_ALIEN8

boon
boon

I still don't know if these were meant to be real reads or just fantasy projections. But okay.

~~~

Conclusion

There's nothing to talk about here. Marmot remains a candidate by process of elimination.

[Tsaiah]

I don't feel good about an Infected Alien lynch today. He has been engaging the thread and seems to be trying to learn the tone of this site while attempting to figure out who may be bad. And I don't blame him for it. @ M Plus 7 , @ JaggedJimmyJay @ Russtifinko do you have any suspicions other than Alien?

Not gonna lie this defence of me wins you over a bit to me lol

That wasn't my intent, but thanks.

Just been staring at this for the last few minutes

This is when alien flips his read on Luna

i think

maybe

i can hear the echoes of alien's mind yelling AN ALLY! I'LL TAKE IT from the edges of this post

[Tsaiah]

OMG

I JUST REALIZED THERE WERE TWO MORE PAGES OF SMILEYS

[Lunalee]

I don't feel good about an Infected Alien lynch today. He has been engaging the thread and seems to be trying to learn the tone of this site while attempting to figure out who may be bad. And I don't blame him for it. @ M Plus 7 , @ JaggedJimmyJay @ Russtifinko do you have any suspicions other than Alien?

Not gonna lie this defence of me wins you over a bit to me lol

That wasn't my intent, but thanks.

Just been staring at this for the last few minutes

This is when alien flips his read on Luna

i think

maybe

i can hear the echoes of alien's mind yelling AN ALLY! I'LL TAKE IT from the edges of this post

You're correct. Alien "suspected" me as scum until I stuck up for him. I guess I was just too nice for him to keep lying about me like that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

OMG

I JUST REALIZED THERE WERE TWO MORE PAGES OF SMILEYS

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of alien and Lunalee

Things alien said to/about Luna

Spoiler: show

Luna is bad, anyone wanna fight me?

Hi Turnip Head, what makes you say that?

Idk k ask me later

I will. I'm trying to decide if you're town, and attempting to scum-hunt, or if you're mafia and trying to stir up interest on an easy townie lynch. The "Idk k ask me later" answer makes me think it's the latter.

linki MP of course

I get a bad vibe from this post. It feels like a bit of a forced read? Like, it's so easy to find what Turnip did as suspicious but gut-wise I just don't see it as suspicious at all because it's so obviously suspicious, yet Luna is sinking her teeth into it a bit here. This combined with her saying I have a commentary vibe to my posts with little opinions, which I disagree with and makes me wonder if her read there is genuine too, makes me suspicious of her.

alien's initial handling of Luna was to cast suspicion upon her. This doesn't mean a lot to me in isolation, so I'll view the progression.

Spoiler: show

Alien, who do you find most suspicious in this game apart from MP?

Hmm, probably Luna but I can only remember 2 posts from them and I feel like I need more content from them to solidify a read.

I asked for alien's second biggest suspect behind MP and he answered with Luna, including that big BUT sandwich to temper the read. He was at least not comfortable answering the question.

Spoiler: show

And well okay fair enough, but what gave you the impression M Plus 7 was the only guy in my crosshairs?

You summarized your reads recently:

Okay I'm caught up.

I think my top town-reads would be Jay and Tsiah. My main suspicion M Plus 7. Town lean on Mac too but I can't help but feel their post explaining their 'fake' reads was an excuse to stop Jay pushing on them, but it does make sense so I'm sort of like 'well fair enough'. I feel like I need to mull over that post

You named two top town reads (Tsaiah and I) and a lesser town read (MacDougall). You named only one suspicion (M Plus 7). If you have other suspicions, they apparently weren't notable enough to warrant mention here.

Oh, fair enough. I just wanted to write down my main suspicion because my others I'm still sort of feeling out, like I'm awaiting kyle's response, I'm still waiting for more content from Luna, still waiting for more content from DH. The only solid suspicion, and my top suspicion, is M Plus 7, the others are light enough for me to not want to push on them for a lynch just yet, and after I'd just caught up posting my suspicions on the others I guess I didn't feel the need to re-state those suspicions again because I'd just said them

When I prodded him for more, he was still playing the waiting game on Luna. If nothing else he seems quite patient with her.

Spoiler: show

Okay I'm caught up now.

How do I vote?

I'm satisfied with russ' answer about what he meant with the revenge lynch, that makes sense to me now

M Plus 7 said to me that his meta is that as Mafia he struggles to make authentic dogpees and I'm convinced that's what I just saw

Aby seems off to me and I'm not sure why, and I don't understand where the town-reads are coming from for her

Luna hasn't posted since so my read on her is the same

Sort of confused as to what to think about GH so I want to wait for him to actually read the thread before making a judgement, the most compelling thing I can remember is the point I think Jay made about him going for the weakest point in his ISO

Everyone else I don't have anything to say about in my memory

How do I vote by the way?

This is a tiny sort of progression, but loses much of its value in its vagueness. Without digging around in alien's ISO (and even when digging to some extent), it isn't clear to the reader exactly what this means. His read on Luna is the same. The same as what? When was this standard of sameness established? Is she a serious lynch prospect, and do alien's posts promote that suspicion? To this point the answer is no. We'll see how it develops.

Spoiler: show

@Lunalee

I wanna hear more from you! Specifically, how do you feel about the spirityo v Mac thing? This is a good generic question for anyone to answer, but I've got N O T H I N G on Lunalee so I wanna specifically hear what you have to say.

Hi RobotNerd, thanks for the prompt. I have trouble finding where I should give input in games like this with a lot of experienced players weighing in.

This looks like the post that started it all: A very innocent comment by sprityo about Mac not being actually green on MP's read list.
Here's why MacDougall dislikes sprityo:
Sprityo has avoided heat in ways he probably shouldn't have I want to see examples of this, because I don't see it in sprit's ISO.
sprityo responds to Mac's suspicions by saying "it was a joke" and "I'm bad at mafia"

Then there's Sprit's blow-up post and Mac's reaction to it. At first glance, it honestly looks like two civvs who don't understand each other.

But I can't help but notice how sprityo is reacting to this whole thing. He swings an attack, then immediately backs down, as if hoping to shut it down before Mac can swing back:
swing 1
back-down 1
swing 2
back-down 2

Mac's response to this is steady and forceful. He does not back down. This seems like a more common townie trait. If I had to pick a scum between Mac and Sprityo, I would choose Sprityo.

His backdown #2 wasn't him going back on his reads though, it was him wanting to move on from stating his case because it was taxing argueing

This also feels a bit like a forced read to me, it feels like you're struggling for what to say, so you're just trying to find something you could say is suspicious, because I don't think your quotes match into your argument very well so it reads as if you made the case first and then tried to fit things into it as opposed to working bottom-up and seeing it first and then making the case

In some ways the impression I get from alien's post here is that it fits the very motivations he is attributing to Lunalee instead. He is struggling to find suspects to talk about other than MP, and he is cramming Lunalee into that secondary role to the best of his ability with bunk rationale. In that regard it could be decent for Lunalee, though I am concerned that by this point alien would have already realized some urgency about distancing from his team -- he was under fire.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

I... think what I said is reasonable peer pressure to suggest that she force reads, which she said that she was doing anyways? I don't think she's scum or even looks scummy for making a single decision

I mean that spirityo was being unnervingly aggressive, and I just liked the way Luna described it.

Anyways, yeah, doing okay. Feeling a bit sick after donating blood yesterday so I might ask them to discard my blood which is a shame. It's mostly just dizziness, which is typical, but it doesn't typically last in me personally that long, so I'm a bit worried. Also a bit of a fever which I had before they took my blood, which is probably contributing to the dizziness.

So you agree it looks like she's forcing reads?

Personally I see it as inherently anti-town to force reads if you're Town. It's lying about what you think, which is counter productive. The most likely way I can see her forcing reads is if she's Mafia and is fine with lying because her objective isn't at risk by doing that. As Town I don't understand why she's pretend to suspect someone if she didn't. Maybe she is Town and just did really feel under pressure there to be useful I guess, it's possible. But I find it much more likely it's the latter, if she did in fact force that read, which right now I think she probably did.

I said at the conclusion "If I had to pick scum between Mac and sprityo, I would choose sprityo" This is a Gun-to-head read. It's actually pretty normal for town.

It wasn't the conclusion in isolation that felt like was forced, more like you felt forced you had to say something about it to have an opinion other than being completely neutral on it.

If' I'm going to take the time to examine a case, I will not come away completely neutral on it. Neutral reads are not helpful to a mafia game. GTH reads at least help get discussion going.

Hm, fair, still though, it seems like you tried to squeeze his 'im just going to state my case and move on' statement as him 'backing down' when it doesn't in my opinion, which makes it seem like a top-down read rather than a bottom-up read, like you came to your conclusion first and then tried to build a case around it rather than seeing it and genuinely thinking he was more suspicious because of it with your GTH.

At this point it just looks like alien is farting out shade. alien isn't pleased with her base take on anything, be in the TH read or distinctions between Mac and sprityo. I think it's looking a bit better for Lunalee.

Spoiler: show

I really shouldn't be here, but here I am.

Hi MP! I see you haven't voted yet. Who should we lynch today?

Wait what? I voted sprityo then Colin then Turnip Head.

I'm not really sure whom I want to lynch quite yet, but yeah. Getting there.

How about you? Got any scum reads for me?

I'll probably decide who to vote closer to end-of-day.
Scum reads? Right now I'm not getting the best vibes from sprityo or infected alien. But I could completely change my mind as I see more posts.

What about me is suspicious to you? What do you mean by vibes, just tone or something else?

This one seems to beg for a specific accusation which can be specifically defended, a more urgent need when dealing with a civilian whose vote can't be so easily influenced as a teammate's.

Spoiler: show

What about her treatment of luna don't you like M Plus 7?

Something about it bothers me; I can't quite put my finger on it. It reads like she knows Luna is bad or something. It reads like two scummates talking. I'm not even sure exactly why I get that impression.

I'll revisit and try to describe in detail assuming the impression still applies.

What do you make of it?

If anything I wonder if her defence of Luna seems a bit TMI but mostly that's because I don't understand her reasoning yet so I'll wait for that

Heh. For someone else's defense of Luna to be TMI, Luna must be town. That'd be TMI.

There's some WIFOM in that, but I don't care.

Spoiler: show

Luna, what's your reads list look like now? Let's talk about something.

Sure we can chat, but I don't feel like making a rainbow list right now. Maybe later.
I'm pretty sure you're town, so I am open to hearing your opinions on people, since you've played with some of the folks before and I haven't. Also you should trust me, I have been nothing but my usual town self this game.

Why do you think he's Town?

He's just too town to not be town. Does that make any since?

Can you be more specific? What about him is town exactly?

He's kinda using Luna as a platform by which he can pump out posts here.

Spoiler: show

Moderate Mafia
Luna - reads feel forced as I've mentioned already, their tone and lack of panic in general is holding me back from putting them as 'Strong Mafia' though

Color coded. It's interesting that alien claimed that Lunalee's reads appeared forced, but also bore a better tone -- a difficult combination for anyone to achieve. The wrong sort of forced reads tend to imply a bad tone. As such I think alien is conscious of how difficult a time he is having fabricating the suspicion because Lunalee just sounds fine to the honest ear. Decent look for her.

When I promoted alien to provide post evidence that he had more than one conclusive, hedge-free suspect apart from MP, he brought he this to display his Lunalee suspicion. He wanted it to be clear that he did indeed, at some point or another, view Lunalee with such suspicion that no disclaimer was necessary.

The problem was, a disclaimer came soon after. "I'm waiting to see more from her". I'm not sure this says much particularly about Luna herself though. I'll leave y'all to judge.

Spoiler: show

I don't feel good about an Infected Alien lynch today. He has been engaging the thread and seems to be trying to learn the tone of this site while attempting to figure out who may be bad. And I don't blame him for it. @M Plus 7 , @JaggedJimmyJay @Russtifinko do you have any suspicions other than Alien?

Not gonna lie this defence of me wins you over a bit to me lol

This strikes me as an important moment. Towards the end of Day 1, Luna moved to a defensive posture for alien (and he responded in kind here). If their intention throughout Days 0 and 1 had been to distance from each other, then I don't know why they'd throw that all in the trash now.

One might suggest that it was a concerted effort to rescue alien from the lynch which is plausible enough. I don't know what the poll looked like at this precise moment though and cannot really investigate that notion with precision. Nonetheless, that potential must inherently temper any civilian credit awarded.

~~~

Things Luna said to/about alien not already covered

Spoiler: show

Infected_alien is giving off a "commentary vibe" in his posts. Not too many actual opinions, but looks like he's adding something. I don't like it.

She was sharply critical of him in her first reads list.

Spoiler: show

I don't feel good about an Infected Alien lynch today. He has been engaging the thread and seems to be trying to learn the tone of this site while attempting to figure out who may be bad. And I don't blame him for it. M Plus 7 , JaggedJimmyJay Russtifinko do you have any suspicions other than Alien?

I do. Add MacDougall to the red pile here and tell me what you think of these red folks.

I'm leaning heavily toward Mac now, but from your list here's my thoughts:
Kylemii - I like his input so far. Don't want to lynch him yet
Infected_alien8 - new person, so I want to let them pass on day 1
Marmot - Is marmot a fan of WIFOM? If he were actually mafia would he joke about night-killing MP? I might be okay with a Marmot lynch
RobotNerd277 - new person, so I want to let them pass on day 1
Turnip Head - based on the case you just laid out about why Mac wants TH lynched, I don't want to lynch him either.
sprityo - If Mac is bad then sprityo is not (in my opinion)

So pending further information, I would support a Mac or Marmot lynch today.

Spoiler: show

I don't like that Mac is still Top 3, or really even that there's a one-vote separation in the top 3 tbh. Lunalee, remind me why you're voting Mac? Who else do you suspect currently?

JJJ presented a convincing case on Mac being scum and trying to get TH lynched. I thought it was convincing, and put my vote on Mac. I don't feel like changing my vote because it looks like Infected_Alien is getting lynched anyways, and I'm willing to bet they flip town.

I'm not sure what mafia utility is gained from making this prediction pre-flip. It may not need that though. It's just an expansion of the justification for a Mac vote.

~~~

Conclusion


This one is a difficult clash of two worlds:

1. At numerous isolated moments, it looks like alien and Lunalee are authentically separated from one another.
2. The full progression of their interaction is not ideal. They were mutually suspicious of each other for nearly the entire game so far, but as far as I can tell never voted for one another even once. Then when push came to shove and it was time to lynch alien, Luna settled on Mac. In a vacuum that's just not great.

I think she remains a POE prospect. I welcome debate.

[Marmot]

JaggedImmyPoe is back in business.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Let's go, gang. "Night phase" doesn't mean break time. Want to win? Play to win.

I will keep doing my work as time permits. Any extended period of dead-thread is an opportunity for the mafia team to catch their breath. Deny them that privilege.

[ColinIsCool]

I like the Luna casing. I feel better about her looking at the last post where she predicts a town flip, but my gut says she was hoping for a misdirected lynch onto Mac the whole time and made that post exactly so we’d draw that conclusion from it. Gotta dig some more.

[abyssum]

what's up everyone

i had a lovely day of cleaning and i've just made some banana bread, which is Very Exciting

[Marmot]

takes 2 slices of banana bread

[abyssum]

takes 2 slices of banana bread

2 pieces for townies
4 pieces for scum

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Guys I have a juicy one coming. Are you ready?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interaction of alien and RobotNerd277

Things alien said to/about Robot

Spoiler: show

Whoops I kinda derped and MP reminded me of the existence of this game a few days ago but I still dropped the ball on checking when it would actually start but I'm here now.

Anyways, hi, checking in, gonna read the thread now.

Robo! Hello! How are you, it's great to see you again!

I feel like an arse turning the niceties into Mafia shit, but I am JaggedJimmyJay and I was born with a certain combination of chromosomes which leave me no choice. I don't believe alien posted this sort of greeting to others, at least not in an isolated post like this, despite having just played with MP and abyssum in the previous game at the least. So I get this vibe:

Hello fellow player in this game who I have played with before and who is definitely not on my mafia team at all as can be clearly seen by the fact that I am saying this right here in the thread instead of in the behind-the-scenes chat area this is a run-on sentence.

It's a stretch I know, but you get the kernels of thought as they appear in my brain. Enjoy.

Spoiler: show

What about M Plus 7 posting his meta reads nullified your argument about him making himself seem too valuable to lynch?

This was in response to one of Robot's early catch-up efforts, when she voiced some suspicion of MP and then retracted it. To me this just looks like alien taking an opportunity to carry on the dialogue he had selected to dominate his ISO, and it needn't reflect better or worse upon Robot.

Spoiler: show

Colin - light Town although I don't remember why I have that in my head
Kyle - I don't remember any of their posts, null read
Marmot - Same as Kyle
Robot - Null, nothing alignment-indicative so far
Russ - Light Town because their posts accusing me felt genuine actually
Spirit - Same as Kyle and Marmot
Turnip - Same as Robot

I'm getting tired of quoting this post and typing "Poop".

Poop.

Spoiler: show

here have my notes sheet that I decided like halfway through that I would post

Spoiler: show

#1065 - http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 22#p474422
DH keeps commenting on how he hasn't read the thread. This is annoying. I do agree that calling someone a pussy or a coward isn't the same as calling them mafia. That being said, I think JaggedJimmyJay is anything but that.

I'm not liking the JJJ + DH interactions? It reads as both townies, but being really distracting. I'm mostly just annoyed about that, but it doesn't read as scummy from either party.

#1094 - http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 55#p474455

ooooh spirityo has an iso wall of macdougall. Saves me the trouble for now!

Wait, has macdougall not actually posted a bunch of solid argument stuff? I figured it was somewhere in the 7 pages I hadn't read.

I'm not liking this "only person I have a negative read on" bit from spirityo but I'm still not a fan of mac. There's a lot to pick at in this thread. MP's willingness to throw "town" at people, DH's unwillingness to read the thread etc. Anyways, the end of spirityo's post is a bit yelly but he makes a point against Mac that I agree with. I still want to do my own iso because ~bad vibes~

#1104 - http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 7b#p474465

Agree with Kylemii. I hope there's an explanatino for how on eart you get a townread on DH.

pseudo-random-neuron-firing -> where's tsaiah?

#1114 - http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 80#p474480

wonderful, mac responded to spirityo's post. I should also answer those questions when I get around to it, because idk who I believe less tbh, spirityo or mac.

I feel like I should address the "melted like butter on a hot plate" thing but idk what to really say. I intend to take more of a look at Mac later? I probably should have done this last night instead of getting distracted but also whatever the past is in the past.

I... keep skimming over MP's posts. Sorry! I'll probably read what you have to say... eventually!

What about the 'only person I have a negative read on' part don't you like?

More filler questions.

Spoiler: show

Also M Plus 7 what do you think of robot this game right now? Hopefully that tag works but it didn't come up with the option menu thing so I'm not sure

He prods MP for a Robot take. He hadn't provided a take of his own yet. Meh.

Spoiler: show

I mean, I was the one asking Luna to force reads

fite me irl alien

fwiw, I have a similar take on the exchange to Luna. The swing and back-off paradigm is a bit aggro, and mac's reaction feels pretty solid and genuine.

linki: I am also curious as to what mp thinks of me

Well you asked her for her opinion on it, she could have said 'not sure', but it feels to me like she felt the need to force a read, probably to not look suspicious

What do you mean by "The swing and back-off paradigm is a bit aggro"?

Also I think you missed my post earlier but hi! How are you doing?

It's back! He said it again!

Spoiler: show

I... think what I said is reasonable peer pressure to suggest that she force reads, which she said that she was doing anyways? I don't think she's scum or even looks scummy for making a single decision

I mean that spirityo was being unnervingly aggressive, and I just liked the way Luna described it.

Anyways, yeah, doing okay. Feeling a bit sick after donating blood yesterday so I might ask them to discard my blood which is a shame. It's mostly just dizziness, which is typical, but it doesn't typically last in me personally that long, so I'm a bit worried. Also a bit of a fever which I had before they took my blood, which is probably contributing to the dizziness.

So you agree it looks like she's forcing reads?

Personally I see it as inherently anti-town to force reads if you're Town. It's lying about what you think, which is counter productive. The most likely way I can see her forcing reads is if she's Mafia and is fine with lying because her objective isn't at risk by doing that. As Town I don't understand why she's pretend to suspect someone if she didn't. Maybe she is Town and just did really feel under pressure there to be useful I guess, it's possible. But I find it much more likely it's the latter, if she did in fact force that read, which right now I think she probably did.

Here alien is chatting away at Robot about Luna, expanding on his reads on the latter, all in a neutral tone re: Robot. That is a bit of a trend here. I am not seeing much motion at all to indicate how alien feels about Robot's play.

Spoiler: show

Mac's response to this is steady and forceful. He does not back down. This seems like a more common townie trait. If I had to pick a scum between Mac and Sprityo, I would choose Sprityo.

this looks very upfront to me imo

I think you're digging where there's nothing to dig. It's really not that deep.

Lunalee

Very upfront?

Why do you think I'm digging where there's nothing to dig?

This exchange bugs me. Robot's assertion that alien is digging when there's nothing to dig ought to be viewed as an accusation, but the tone and presentation of the statement don't carry that severity. alien's response is so basic too, like something learned from an Effective Communication seminar. Repeat the words of the person you are speaking with when you are asking for clarification.

Spoiler: show

Luna what's your opinion on robot?

This again. "Other people: tell me about Robot." alien still hasn't given a read.

Spoiler: show

Alien, what are your reads right now? Are you still TKing me?

Yes

You and Luna are my top suspects as of right now
Aby feels off but I still feel like I need to see more from her
Waiting on robot's response to my question but her meta seems a bit different at least though I'm not sure whether that's significant for her
I don't understand Russ' argument on me because it feels like he's ignoring what I initially said but I'm not sure if I think it seems agendary or not but I'm waiting to watch him some more
Tsiah and Jay are still my town-reads
Everyone else is fairly neutral I think

alien felt MP was off-meta and that turned into his only fierce suspicion of the game. He says Robot might also be off-meta and isn't "sure whether that's significant for her". Bad look.

Spoiler: show

Luna what's your opinion on robot?

Robot's cool. My first impression of her is good, but I haven't done any digging on her posts other that our interactions. I find it sort of strange that she asked for my opinion on the Sprit/Mac thing, then said I was reading too much into it though.

What did you find strange about it?

Luna what about robot saying she thought you were reading too much into it after asking you about it felt weird to you?

The seminar continues. alien uses Robot as a catalyst to carry on his poking of Lunalee.

Spoiler: show

Neutral
Robot - their meta seemed different to me at first, but their 'I'll sheep the wagon' post actually seemed a lot more like robo was last game I played when they were Town - although they did this right after I pointed out their meta was different so hesitant to award big points for it, but it makes me feel a bit better about them at least. Their read on Luna felt a bit TMI though, but I'm waiting to here their responses to me about that before I look into that further

Color coding engaged. This is one of the biggest Belgian waffles in alien's ISO. It's... everywhere. The read is omnipresent. I hate it. It's not just a matter of the blurb being all over the place either, it's also the placement of the read. We've seen now that alien has directly interacted with Robot on a few occasions and asked other players to discuss Robot too. And all of that leads to a freaking "neutral" read. That's really gross.

Here, have a siren.gif:

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Can we also talk about Robot? Please? What does everyone think of her?

I thought their 'I'll sheep the wagon' post was a pretty good look for them, though I bear in mind they said that after I called them out on their change in meta

MP wants to talk about Robot, and alien dips his tootsies into the water... before immediately retracting them from the terrible cold and burying them in a warm towel.

Spoiler: show

@abyssum

Are you around? What are your reads right now? Top lynch candidates? I see you're also on Robot.

i'm semi-around but not entirely. i've been on Robot for a while now; the points that i made in my reads posts about Robot are ones that still stand. unlike you/Alien/Tsaiah(?), i don't have any meta on robot, so i can't offer anything of value there, but i still really dislike them saying that they like kylemii and then saying that they don't mind the wagon. i just cannot imagine that sort of behavior/thought coming from a townie; when i form a read (even a minor/light one) on somebody, i don't then want to hop onto their wagon just because a few other people are.

i know that they said that they didn't see any compelling reason to do so, but the eagerness to the possibility of joining that wagon rubs me the wrong way entirely.

Again I feel the need to point out that I think they were like this before as Town, so it's either non indicative or a towntell

Now Robot is on-meta.

Spoiler: show

COLIN TOWN
JAY TOWN
LUNA TOWN
M PLUS 7 SCUM
RUSS SCUM
SPRIT NO IDEA NOBODY'S TELLING ME THE CASE ON THEM
MAC TOWN
ROBOT TOWN
DH MAFIA
umm, give me more names

It's here! It's right here! Everyone look! It's a read!

~~~

Things Robot said about/to alien

Spoiler: show

Alien's doing the same kinda catch-up postwall as I am. Here's the link. It's the first longpost I've seen in this game, so let's break it down.

I disagree with Alien about how MP feels about Tsaiah (in particular, a lock-town read is a Really Good thing to get early on so long as you do allow yourself to reassess and distrust that person later on, and also Tsaiah's ISO screams Good Bean to me). I do agree about Mac though. I am confused as hell about Mac.

Actually, you know what, MP7's eagerness to townread so many people is making me feel not great. Like he said he wants a solid town circle and then a POE, but I agree with Alien that he's just handing out townreads like, everywhere.

Can I give a read on Dragon D. Luffy? They're locktown whether or not they're playing okbye

okay, ColinisCool has the same feeling about MP, so it's not just Alien.

I extracted this from a larger post to focus on relevant material.

It's awful. Robot meandered around on the things alien was doing in the form of commentary (no stances taken). She parlayed that dialogue into a focus instead on MP, based upon alien's grievances. And it's not just alien! Colin agrees too! Hah! Validation! The window of opportunity is open for sure!

Spoiler: show

here have my notes sheet that I decided like halfway through that I would post

Spoiler: show

#1065 - http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 22#p474422
DH keeps commenting on how he hasn't read the thread. This is annoying. I do agree that calling someone a pussy or a coward isn't the same as calling them mafia. That being said, I think JaggedJimmyJay is anything but that.

I'm not liking the JJJ + DH interactions? It reads as both townies, but being really distracting. I'm mostly just annoyed about that, but it doesn't read as scummy from either party.

#1094 - http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 55#p474455

ooooh spirityo has an iso wall of macdougall. Saves me the trouble for now!

Wait, has macdougall not actually posted a bunch of solid argument stuff? I figured it was somewhere in the 7 pages I hadn't read.

I'm not liking this "only person I have a negative read on" bit from spirityo but I'm still not a fan of mac. There's a lot to pick at in this thread. MP's willingness to throw "town" at people, DH's unwillingness to read the thread etc. Anyways, the end of spirityo's post is a bit yelly but he makes a point against Mac that I agree with. I still want to do my own iso because ~bad vibes~

#1104 - http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 7b#p474465

Agree with Kylemii. I hope there's an explanatino for how on eart you get a townread on DH.

pseudo-random-neuron-firing -> where's tsaiah?

#1114 - http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 80#p474480

wonderful, mac responded to spirityo's post. I should also answer those questions when I get around to it, because idk who I believe less tbh, spirityo or mac.

I feel like I should address the "melted like butter on a hot plate" thing but idk what to really say. I intend to take more of a look at Mac later? I probably should have done this last night instead of getting distracted but also whatever the past is in the past.

I... keep skimming over MP's posts. Sorry! I'll probably read what you have to say... eventually!

What about the 'only person I have a negative read on' part don't you like?

maintaining as neutral a stance as possible is pretty scummy. only disliking one person is just barely a step above that. I consider townreads not super relevant to that because it's much easier to say you like someone than you dislike them, you know?

that being said, spirityo hasn't like, demonstrated serious tunnel vision. just not-evaluated-the-rest-of-game vision, which is a pretty reasonable state of being. If they don't start reevaluating townreads, then we'll talk more.

Robot chats a bit with alien about sprityo, and the content intrigues me for one reason. She is displeased at the one-track focus of suspicion sprityo had to offer (on Mac presumably), but didn't seem to note that she was talking to someone else with a one-track focus of suspicion (alien on MP).

Spoiler: show

have a gut reads list (based on not reading anything since yesterday night (approximately 20 pages ago), with minimal iso skimming):

abyssum - remarks their perspective on what's going on, and I found their insights useful to analyzing the thread iirc, (though I can't recall an example of that aff the top of my head.
ColinIsCool - Asks a lot of questions and is involved in conversation. Seems okay to me.
DharmaHelper - So I'm sure this read should change if I had read the last 20 pages, but at that point, DH hadn't done anything particularly useful? He seemed like he was gearing up for a Big Statement though.
Infected_alien8_ - Alien... annoys me tbh. Particularly wrt how he kept putting pressure on me and luna that one time.
JaggedJimmyJay - Helpful, asking questions of people, putting pressure down.
Kylemii - I don't have a solid read on them yet. I only recall them talking about one post that took them 3 hours to make. I don't remember what the post was.
Lunalee - I liked her response to my question about mac vs spirityo, and that's what decided my vote.
MacDougall - my negative read on mac initially came from early day 0 joking, and then asserting that he was never joking and this frustrated me. Afterwards he's been a good townie, contributing to game decently well.
Marmot - I haven't seen any Marmot posts.
M Plus 7 - Talkative as usual. day 0 was really willing to give out townreads. that (thankfully) didn't really keep up once he got the power to vote, putting pressure in places he wanted people to talk from.
Russtifinko - Likes ISOs and walls and I appreciate their analyses.
sprityo - In the spate against mac, spirityo came out looking worse.
Tsaiah - On day 0 she seemed super excitable and pure as fuck.
Turnip Head - Not particularly memorable. I don't see much in the way of serious posts in TH's iso.

Aaauughhhhh. He's YELLOW. Yeesh!

Also note the blurb. Alien is "annoying". He isn't suspicious. He's annoying. Nope. Nope.

Spoiler: show

Infected_alien8_ and RobotNerd277 the gun to head has revealed that you two are the most suspicious amongst the group who did it.

Can you please re-affirm your positions and make a read on one another?

Who did what? I could make a whole post about Alien, particularly about the alien + spirityo v mac conversation, and alien v me and luna conversation. I'm getting a little tired of keeping this one in the queue though, so I'll write that up immediately.

Okay, but, like... why ain't you done already did that?

~~~

Conclusion

[VOTE: RobotNerd277] aubergine

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Alright, so I think RobotNerd is spewed town (yay TMI) by Alien, and this alone is why she is placed in moderate town. The way Alien talks about Robot also reads very similarly to the way scum Alien talked about a low hanging fruit townie (dichotomousCreator) in wild cards 1, and I originally thought that as well, but then we ended up MLing him anyway because he independently looked scummy. I'd hesitate to make that mistake again here. Nonetheless we must consider Robot on her own merits and consider the possibility that Alien was defending a teammate here.

Clearly we don't agree. I hope we can find time to talk about that.

[abyssum]

[mention]M Plus 7[/mention] wait wait you think that robot is similar to dC? how so?

[abyssum]

i think Luna should remain in the POE, but the way that Alien was criticizing her reads list doesn't read much like two teammates to me. i'd say it's less likely than other candidates

Alien was criticizing luna in the sense that he was saying her reads aren't genuine, and he tried to couch that criticism by saying her suspicion on Turnip Head wasn't genuine and was probably faked. notably he didn't really make any attempt to engage her on it. there isn't a lot of room there for Luna to make a response, because Alien has already dismissed the sincerity/validity of Luna's thoughts--it's the kind of comment that is kind of hard to shake because you can just keep saying "that's not real, you don't seem genuine" to me as many times as you want.

it's possible that that's a teammate interaction, but it reminds me more of the way Alien was jumping on MP7 (who's basically clear now) and kylemii (who i think is town) and refusing to progress those reads.

[abyssum]

and i know that Alien technically progressed his read on Luna, but it was late and Alien was in much greater danger of being lynched when it occurred. i think there's a good chance he never would've let go on that one if he wasn't getting lynched.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

M Plus 7 wait wait you think that robot is similar to dC? how so?

Whaddya think of the Robot stuff right now?

[Tangrowth]

I see I’ve been mentioned here.

I’m still busy but I’ll check Jay’s Robot thing by phone soon.

Hopefully before deadline I’ll have a chance to actually dig into more and offer a new rainbow list, but no promises.

[abyssum]

M Plus 7 wait wait you think that robot is similar to dC? how so?

Whaddya think of the Robot stuff right now?

honestly, not sure yet

i think i need to ISO Robot myself instead of just reading the interactions, but i did go through your post. overall, i think Robot/Alien is a more likely pairing than Luna/Alien; the way that alien engaged robot on things seemed more...intentional/careful somehow. he tiptoed around ever calling them much of anything until the last GTH reads where he called them town, which stands in contrast to his willingness to call basically everything from certain players off, or a bad look, or ping-y.

there's nothing in there that makes Robot automatically scum, but barring some nugget of pure towniness shining through in their ISO or D2 play, they're not moving very far up in my reads

[abyssum]

like Alien said that i seemed off when i was questioning him and seemed to want to hang onto that notion

it took a while for him to shake it, and it probably only really changed when the tide of the thread was moving toward me being town rather than slightly towny question mark

i don't see anything similar happening with Robot, and there's not really anything in the thread mood that accounts for that

[JaggedJimmyJay]

like Alien said that i seemed off when i was questioning him and seemed to want to hang onto that notion

it took a while for him to shake it, and it probably only really changed when the tide of the thread was moving toward me being town rather than slightly towny question mark

i don't see anything similar happening with Robot, and there's not really anything in the thread mood that accounts for that

I agree. Instead of a point of dialogue for alien to revisit repeatedly (as numerous players became through Day 1), Robot seemed an extraneous variable that he'd only mention at random -- never with a clear stance.

[Tangrowth]

Let me check out the analysis now. Thanks for doing that Jay.

[Tangrowth]

Clearly I didn’t do enough exhaustive research between a Alien and Robot myself because now that I’m looking already...

I am reminded of the infamous post I’m WC1 when Alien went out of his way to say hi and such... TO HIS SCUMMATES

[Tangrowth]

Yeah robot needs to be in the POE. The qualifying statements and lack of opinions early are bad.

Still reading off and on for a bit here.

I’ll try to see if I can back to laptop before deadline but yeah.

[Turnip Head]

I'm here for the banana bread

[Tangrowth]

@M Plus 7 wait wait you think that robot is similar to dC? how so?

I was recalling the posts towards the end of Day 1. Te ones before that are bad.

[ColinIsCool]

I think from now on I’m just going to lynch new people. Seems to be a compelling strategy so far here.

[abyssum]

I'm here for the banana bread

two or four pieces? consider carefully!

[abyssum]

o right open nights are like...you don't have to post game-relevant content. i'm gonna introduce myself bc of that and bc you all seem like friendly people.

hello i am abyssum and you can call me aby. half the players here make me feel like a mafia newbie and that's funny. i like MP7 and think he's a swell guy. the rest of you seem like swell people as well, which makes sense! i'm on central time and i'm kinda splitting my time between housework, the x-files, and this game

overall a really enjoyable wind-down from wildcards, actually. i'm having a really good time here <3

now i'm gonna get in bed and enjoy the relative illusion of freedom

hello abyssum please play every game you're great

no u

v///v

[Turnip Head]

[mention]abyssum[/mention] just one ty ty

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of alien and Tsaiah

Things alien said to/about Tsaiah

Spoiler: show

I've read through the thread and I'm suspicious of M Plus 7, slight town-read on Tsai, I want to town-read Jagged but M Plus 7 says they're good at acting Townie so I'm a bit reluctant to do that but I've felt like they've been genuinely hunting so far rather than faking it, and I wanted to town-read Mac based on tone but I think they might have possibly slipped?

M Plus 7 suspicion is, in a nut-shell, that I think they're being too eager to town-read people compared to in other games, and I'm not getting the sense they're genuinely trying to solve. The lack of questions is also concerning but I've not really got any questions myself either yet so I can be sympathetic about that.

Some quotes:

Yeah Tsaiah is pure. I’m locking this for now.

Seems a bit too eager to lock in a town-read? Especially since he hasn't played much with her. And looking through their ISO I really don't know where he's getting that from.

~~~

If Jay and Tsaiah are both scum this game, I will cry myself to sleep for weeks.

Again a bit too eager on town-reading them, I'm really not sure where it's coming from because he said Jay can fake Mafia really well and I'm really not sure where his Tsaiah tone read is coming from, mostly because I just don't see it at all, and that combined with the fact he hasn't played with them much makes me think this is fake.

~~~

Some early thoughts

M Plus 7 - i can feel the wind from his tail wagging so hard the way over here, eee. While i think he'd be excitable as scum, too, i think the direction that's gone in this particular game is just oozing with how happy he is to get to be playing for the first time with certain people, and in that, the emphasis is clearly on him being excited that those certain people could actually be town like he clearly wants them to be. Serious read, and unexpected--i thought i was gonna be terrified in a but oh god what if he's scum sorta way coming in, but damn if i don't feel like he's probably just town already, AND i'm comfortable with the feeling

JaggedJimmyJay - came in equally comfortable with joking around and with getting down to brass tacks solving (and doing both concurrently), not a bit of it feels forced, i feel like he's seeking out potential paths to sniff his way down without it feeling like he's reaching for minutiae

Kylemii - i do like the way he engaged me, i would've liked it better if he'd actually told me something about himself in his reply (tho i laughed), i'm most interested right now in seeing what he does or doesn't do with the replies he recieves there

I like this post because it feels genuine to me, the M Plus 7 read feels almost too elaborate and complex to be faked, so I slightly town-read Tsaiah because of this I think.

All of this is extracted from alien's first post in the thread. I have highlighted the material pertaining specifically to Tsaiah. It's a curious set of comments in that alien gave MP a lot of grief for giving Tsaiah a read of "purity" on a few occasions before himself calling one of her reads lists "genuine" himself. He seemed to want to acknowledge that Tsaiah looked good in this post, but not give MP any credit for having that perspective. I'm not entirely sure what this says if anything about Tsaiah, but perhaps it will loom larger in later developments.

Spoiler: show

Lol, what timing.

What makes you assess his poo flinging so far as fake? As you and I both know, it's in character as either alignment. What should I be looking for re: Mac this early? Give me all of your thoughts, Jay.

Poo flinging is great. We should all do it. It should also bear some kind of capacity for response, or at least be traceable to some tangible inspiration. Mac's poo is randomized. I have no idea why those posts he highlighted suggested the alignments he tacked onto them.

Sorry Jay I was unaware that you had evolved your requirements of my basic day 1 101 gameplay to introduce this new attribute that now gives you justification to make meta reads that you never have before. Allow me to update my core programming to give no fucks.

MacDougall
What, to your mind, does the part you bolded have to do with meta reads?

I read that part as "any flung poo should be of the kind that elicits actual responses/discussion, or at least give people an idea of where said poo flinger is coming from"

I'm liking Tsaiah's questions so far, they read like they're genuinely trying to figure things out. Not going to give too many townie points for it but it makes me feel comfortable having a slight town read on them still.

Can you talk about tsaiah's meta please abyssum ?

He's essentially giving Tsaiah the same credit MP was giving her and then tacking on an obligatory disclaimer to reduce the strength of the read. In some ways this mirrors his handling of me, as MP was giving me early town points and alien was offering the same responses: "you shouldn't have a strong town read on Jay already / I have a town read on Jay but only slight because blah blah". That's a nice thing for Tsaiah.

Spoiler: show

Look at Tsaiah asking questions and shit.

TSAIAH IS PURE AS FUCK

I WILL CUT ANYONE THAT KILLS HER

Again the confidence in her purity even though you've never played a full game with her so presumably don't know her that well pings me. I agree she looks like she's genuinely solving but I also think she could be faking it, and I don't share your confidence in her being so pure to that degree, which is why it pings me

One of the more obvious benefits a mafioso can enjoy with things like this is to sever the connection of trust being forged between two civilians and inhibit game-solving teamwork. Whether alien had that specific intent I cannot say, but the possibility is there in a world where Tsaiah is a civilian. He'd be trying to prevent Tsaiah from responding to MP with the same positive read or confidence that she was receiving from him -- planting the seed of doubt.

Spoiler: show

There was one point I found compelling in your ISO of Dharma yes, but it's not compelling enough to make me want him lynched over M Plus 7. What was the thing about kyle? The russ thing yes, I can see your perspective, I asked Russ to explain where he was going with that and I'll go from there with that read.

I'm referring to his request that a handful of players give him their "histories".

I don't think I have 'one guy in my crosshairs' at all, he's my top suspect but he's not my only suspect and I think I've made that clear at least.

I wouldn't say you've made it clear. You've hinted, you've suggested, and you've dabbled, but you haven't made it clear.

Oh yeah, I did wonder where he was going with that read, I'm waiting on his response to M Plus 7's question about that.

And well okay fair enough, but what gave you the impression M Plus 7 was the only guy in my crosshairs?

Infected_alien8_

Okay, i'm mostly popcorning this stretch rn to see all the responses to responses to responses first...

But i gotta say, i also very much have that impression.


Like at this point itt, you respond to and recognize points about other people, but...don't seem to actively pursue any of them to anywhere? So far, you always just come right back to M Plus 7--while in between doing that, you sound for all the world to me like you're talking to him as if you at least have some consideration for him as town. The two halves of that sentence aren't adding up for me. And i'm also getting some impression that your M Plus 7 case is mostly, realistically...one note?

You writing off M Plus 7 and Aby's superfast finding each other town in wildcards as "a special case" is particularly troubling to me right now. Like you literally just saw that, just lived through it (and as scum, too, so you even knew it was real then, from the get go). Why the immediate dismissal of it as "a special case?"

Lemme throw some stuff at you, in case you're town in a tunnel here (stuff i've said elsewhere itt already, but here's some probably really relevant points all in one place):

- Aby and I have extensive experience playing together, and I usually find them as town early in a game (and love playing with them)
- I've become friends with M Plus since y'all's qualifier, and we've discovered that our minds work a lot alike (to the point that i predicted he and Aby would "get there" on each other fast as town, and mesh really well)
- The way M Plus 7 is treating me here is SUPER ALIKE to the way he got there fast on Aby there
- I also got to a pretty damn confident take on him early, and am also expressing that in very strong terms, and you're putting me in your top towns and him unwaveringly in your rifle scope

So okay, how again is that a "special case" before--like why do you even think that enough to dismiss it offhand that way? Is there something behind that I don't know about, or...?

Does entering any of the above into your considerations make you rethink anything?

"Like at this point itt, you respond to and recognize points about other people, but...don't seem to actively pursue any of them to anywhere? So far, you always just come right back to M Plus 7--while in between doing that, you sound for all the world to me like you're talking to him as if you at least have some consideration for him as town. The two halves of that sentence aren't adding up for me."

I'm considering everyone. But at the end of the day I have to choose one person to actually lynch, and right now that's him. So if I'm going to other people, commenting my thoughts on them, then going back to M Plus 7, it's because I'm still considering him as my main suspect. And yes, there is a part of me that considers him as possibly Town of course, for all I know I'm completely wrong.

"And i'm also getting some impression that your M Plus 7 case is mostly, realistically...one note?"

What do you mean by that?

"You writing off M Plus 7 and Aby's superfast finding each other town in wildcards as "a special case" is particularly troubling to me right now. Like you literally just saw that, just lived through it (and as scum, too, so you even knew it was real then, from the get go). Why the immediate dismissal of it as "a special case?""

Because I played two games with M Plus 7 and that was the only time in both of them at all that something like that happened. Everyone else he was paranoid about. He had genuine mindmelds with aby over and over, something pretty unlikely to come from people with opposing alignments.

"So okay, how again is that a "special case" before--like why do you even think that enough to dismiss it offhand that way? Is there something behind that I don't know about, or...?"

The difference is, in my mind, with aby him and aby kept having mindmelds over and over. I can understand why at that point he'd be convinced they were Town. I remember in my qualifiers game I kept getting mindmelds with SR and he was my top town-read partly because of that. But with you it's just tone, you just read as a Townie. As someone who barely knows you yet bases their trust in that, I find that suspicious.

"Does entering any of the above into your considerations make you rethink anything?"

Not really, because even if you have the same sort of thinking as M Plus 7, he hasn't been mindmelding with you, that's not his point, he just finds your Town really townie. But that can be faked, and he knows that, but it doesn't seem at all like he's even considering that with you. It reads like TMI on you.

alien went to a lot of trouble to assuage the concerns presented to him by Tsaiah, going comment by comment to explain himself in a dissected, precise format. I think the look of it is positive for Tsaiah, in that I have some doubt that this exchange bears quite the same appearance or thoroughness if alien is talking to someone who already knows the answers.

Spoiler: show

Strong Town
Jay - I like most of his points, I read him as genuine, I buy that he's actually trying to solve the game and I find his lines of investigation insightful.
Tsiah - I love their lines of inquiery, it's all very unique and poking into things that everyone else glossed over. It reads very journalisty and investigative y, and I get overall good vibes from them.

It seems to me that alien decided there was no case he could hope to build on two people: Tsaiah and I.

When I poked him about his hedginess, he provided counterexamples. Among them was his strong civilian reads on Tsaiah.

Spoiler: show

I don't feel as though that's been the case @ Tsaiah, other than with M Plus 7, in which case my read isn't based on 'I don't understand why you did this', it's based on 'I don't believe you', and he could explain it away all he wanted, I just wasn't believing him, so I asked him instead to just show me his town feathers to prove his towniness because his explanations weren't doing anything to me

@Infected_alien8_
It's not with him that bothers me the worst, its with me and abyssum and Robot and Jay and whoever else presented you with various povs and potential data, and it keeps feeling like you just shut all that data out of your mindworld instantly, without any consideration or engagement on it first.

Also what does "showing his town feathers" even mean? That's what i'm talkijg about about a nebulous bar to set. Does that have an exact definition in your mind?

Then I'm sorry but I have no idea what you mean. Can you quote examples, because I don't think I've done that at all.

Showing his town feathers is a term I took off him from last game, he kept saying he'd scumhunt and in doing so we'd see he was town. It's like, showing he's town through his behaviour rather than just his words.

This doesn't look like an interaction between teammates to me.

~~~

Things Tsaiah said to/about alien not already covered

Spoiler: show

Good morning!

I read the thread in piecemeal fashion as i could at work last night, thru whenever it was i got home and immediately crashed. Leftover thoughts that stuck with me overnight from initial impressions:

- i will bite my own legs off and eat them if JaggedJimmyJay is not town.

^
I think this might be my GH this game. @abyssum, your thoughts?

- M Plus 7 continues to be town. Fite me.

- alien's entrance (and choice of first suspicion! ) struck me as towny, and smacks of his qualifier play much more than his wc game

- Aby is townier the more they post, thus far /kicks them further away from the fence

- I think i'm gonna like Lunalee as a person for sure , dunno what that means in respect to their alignment yet


Time to pee xD and get coffee, then read back thru and talk about specifics!

Her first impression of alien was incorrect. Not necessarily a big deal.

Spoiler: show

Infected_alien8_

I never got to talk to you about your responses to me--if you're still here, engage me about this super fast please:

I read both of your champs isos, trying to compare them to here. What i came out with was like, some kind of hybrid + new animal, somewhere between the two. You came into game nine with a lot of reads, not this narrow focus you have here. But you also sound less, not appeasy maybe but wantonly agreeable than you did in wcs. You didn't seem this x but y but maybe x in either one that i could tell.

What bothers me the most, in this game so far, is that i keep feeling like your Input slot is connected directly to your Garbage bin, bypassing your Consideration drawer entirely, if that awful analogy makes any sense. Like, people keep shoving their input at you, their povs and sometimes entirely new data you wouldn't know otherwise (like i offered for example), and it feels like it just impacts on the surface?

Like "I see your perspective, i get that, but... " over and over and then it just feels like to me you aren't considering it at all. Like your mind is set where you want it to be, and you aren't gonna budge it. In game 9 i can tell you most certainly have your own mind, but it looked like you were doing more actual thinking about and considering things even when you disagreed. And not setting a bar of some kind of nebulous give me x or i don't buy it. And i don't get that.

Why is your uhhh for lack of a better word and time to think of one, stubbornness so much more in evidence here? And why do the back and forth's i've read (caveat i havent read anything at all since around page 39/40), the interacrions feel like you take so little to nothing away from the other person's input? What's different here, to your mind?

Tsaiah read through both of alien's MU games and determined that his DFS self existed somewhere in between those two. She voiced suspicions that pretty well aligned with those stated by others before -- this came quite late in Day 1.

~~~

Conclusion

When there's something to talk about, it's generally something good. I'd be comfortable with more data here. The biggest problem is that Tsaiah's longest period of absence from the thread coincides pretty cleanly with the development of the cases against alien. That might be bad luck. I think this is a read I will find more compelling outside the arena of the interactivity.

[Turnip Head]

Someone please @tag me when we get the Cliff's Notes version of JimmyJay's research paper

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Someone please @tag me when we get the Cliff's Notes version of JimmyJay's research paper

They all have a little conclusion at the end you fart.

[Tangrowth]

I think from now on I’m just going to lynch new people. Seems to be a compelling strategy so far here.

Lynch Robot.

Never lynch abyssum and Tsaiah.

[Tangrowth]

Someone please @tag me when we get the Cliff's Notes version of JimmyJay's research paper

They all have a little conclusion at the end you fart.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have time for one more. Make your requests.

[ColinIsCool]

The Bills are throwing Josh Allen in. Rocket launch commencing.

[dunya]

ddl was right, we've turned mafia into science. rip

[Tangrowth]

I have time for one more. Make your requests.

Do me.

Just kidding, I don’t know. Someone other than the top 4 in my list if possible, otherwise aby is fine.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have time for one more. Make your requests.

Do me.

Just kidding, I don’t know. Someone other than the top 4 in my list if possible, otherwise aby is fine.

I'm already doing abyssum.

[Tangrowth]

Perfect.

[Tangrowth]

Just realizing now anyway you’ve looked at everyone except me, yourself, and Russ by the time you finish aby right?

[Kylemii]

Prologue: The Infection

Spoiler: show

It was a warm day in the sports stadium, where sports are played, you know the one. The group had decided to blow off steam by playing baseball cus that seems like as good of a reason for this as any. During their game however, it was discovered that one of the new members of the baseball team was an alien, but..... upon their death it turns out there was a much more sinister secret they were hiding...

"He's infected. :\" said Rick Grimes, "Also, my name is Rick Grimes, and i'm here with all my friends."

"Infected? What does that mean?" Kyle asked, inquisitively, ignoring the very obvious comment about the cast of walking dead being present in this.

"It means he got bit, by a walker, and that made him sick :\" Rick Grimes drawled

"what no, that's not what i mean. i mean... what does it mean, in the context of this narrative? the one that i'm using as a backdrop for what is basic player proximity analysis in the shape of bad walking dead fanfiction?" Kyle asked.

Rick Grimes, wiped some sweat off his eyebrow "it means we gotta find out who else in this group might be infected, find out who Alien might have been friends with, who he hung out with, who he acted shady around. that sorta thing. we gotta find anyone else who might be infected before they can do any damage.

"yes that sounds good, and more importantly it sounds like a valid backdrop for this series of walking dead fanfic/game analysis posts"

"isn't that a little bit too self-aware?" Rick Grimes asked

"no" said Kyle

"Alright so where do we start?" asked Rick Grimes

"At the top."

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Just realizing now anyway you’ve looked at everyone except me, yourself, and Russ by the time you finish aby right?

I'm also missing sprityo and Kyle.

[ColinIsCool]

Prologue: The Infection

Spoiler: show

It was a warm day in the sports stadium, where sports are played, you know the one. The group had decided to blow off steam by playing baseball cus that seems like as good of a reason for this as any. During their game however, it was discovered that one of the new members of the baseball team was an alien, but..... upon their death it turns out there was a much more sinister secret they were hiding...

"He's infected. :\" said Rick Grimes, "Also, my name is Rick Grimes, and i'm here with all my friends."

"Infected? What does that mean?" Kyle asked, inquisitively, ignoring the very obvious comment about the cast of walking dead being present in this.

"It means he got bit, by a walker, and that made him sick :\" Rick Grimes drawled

"what no, that's not what i mean. i mean... what does it mean, in the context of this narrative? the one that i'm using as a backdrop for what is basic player proximity analysis in the shape of bad walking dead fanfiction?" Kyle asked.

Rick Grimes, wiped some sweat off his eyebrow "it means we gotta find out who else in this group might be infected, find out who Alien might have been friends with, who he hung out with, who he acted shady around. that sorta thing. we gotta find anyone else who might be infected before they can do any damage.

"yes that sounds good, and more importantly it sounds like a valid backdrop for this series of walking dead fanfic/game analysis posts"

"isn't that a little bit too self-aware?" Rick Grimes asked

"no" said Kyle

"Alright so where do we start?" asked Rick Grimes

"At the top."

Already better than anything after season 4 or so imo