The Syndicate

I'm annoyed by Creature's defeatist attitude, but I like that they brought up Evenstar's interaction with Dragomir with that meme pic. So, like, I think I'm okay with him for now.

Elephant is still cool in my book as well as Benson.

I can't put my finger on to why, but at EoD1 and coming into D2, I was getting the vibe that Vanity and Nutella are somehow linked together, but not necessarily as scum partners. If they ended up being mason partners (or even scum partners), I wouldn't be surprised.

Everyone else, except for maybe Juliets, is null or worse.

boo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:01 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:47 pm

boo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:08 pm My biggest suspect within our group is Hyena (and, happily enough, in general). The drive to force a tie (s)he, sorry, don't know most of you in this game yet engaged in struck me as wrong at the time, going so far as to ask me after I put the no lynch vote down to flip it to help cause a tie.

So, I gave an explanation earlier for why I was trying to tie the wagons as much as possible at EoD. I don't think we would've gathered much information if the wagons remained uneven before, like, the last moment. People were changing their votes between Dragomir and 112 until the very last moment, but there wouldn't have been a need to if one wagon remained greater than the other.

I saw that. I just don't buy it. How does asking me after I had just said I had no thoughts on things because I hadn't read up-to-date to try and help force a tie help give any helpful information, other than using my either doing so or not as a future reason to suspect me?

It doesn't give me any helpful information on you. At that moment, I just saw you as a potential second vote for myself, not really as a player. In retrospect, your vote wasn't needed, but eh, who knows? It might've made some people move their votes around more, or even better, it might've led to people accusing you or me of being scum, which in turn would've led to more interesting interactions.

Something for everyone:

I seem to be off the mark on TL because unlike everyone else I don't see his case on Drago to be weak for a Day 1 case. Many of the rest of you voted Drago, what were your reasons?

boo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:59 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:11 pm I thought Hyena had legitimate reasons for driving a close lynch near EoD but I'll let him address that before I say anything.

Oh, it was Benson not LA or JC... dunno how I got that. I guess Ben is also Lost... let's go with that.

wat

Who is JC?

Benson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:18 pm

boo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:59 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:11 pm I thought Hyena had legitimate reasons for driving a close lynch near EoD but I'll let him address that before I say anything.

Oh, it was Benson not LA or JC... dunno how I got that. I guess Ben is also Lost... let's go with that.

wat

Who is JC?

Me.

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:16 pm Something for everyone:

I seem to be off the mark on TL because unlike everyone else I don't see his case on Drago to be weak for a Day 1 case. Many of the rest of you voted Drago, what were your reasons?

He had a few wolfy posts I'm too lazy to pull up. In one he had this attitude about "catching" Mac in a TMI that seemed super fake. Also, when mac started getting votes he had the wolfiest pop-in to tell us he was working on a case against Mac.
Him not showing up on Tuesday what-so-ever meant he was worse than 112/tony/TL in my mind. And finally, I REALLY liked the people on the Drago wagon compared to the others.

[mention]Trustworthy Liberal[/mention]
If you want to talk to me, just post what you want me to address and leave a mention. :P

[mention]Benson[/mention] fyi, the LOST website was the first website some of us old guard people played Mafia on. boo called me JC because I used to be Juliet's Coffee - JC - which had something to do with the show (LOST). There was also a Ben on LOST, he was a bad guy.

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:29 pm @Benson fyi, the LOST website was the first website some of us old guard people played Mafia on. boo called me JC because I used to be Juliet's Coffee - JC - which had something to do with the show (LOST). There was also a Ben on LOST, he was a bad guy.

haha, thank you

[mention]juliets[/mention] here is TL's Drago case for reference:

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:07 pm Okay just finshed Dragomir's ISO don't see multy quotes so heres my thoughts on him

-Seemed to go alittle far with evenstar (not alignment indicative)
-Made a case on 112 based off characters claims saying that a town wouldn't play that way but the case became empty due to random characters
-Not a lot of depth short anwsers threw shade on Mac leaving his vote there before leaving
-hasn't posted in thread since early yesterday morning (my time atleast)

Don't think this is enough to call him 100% scum but i don't think he has been pushing a town presence would love if he could come back and post a little. I know this is ironic coming from me but atleast am here now.


Conclusion
----------------
Scum lean on him based off what he did push when he was fairly active so willing to lynch this today, him missing for a long period doesn't make him look any better either.

(someone tell me the command for voting i didn't see it when i looked sorry for being a bother)

So your question is why is this worse than other people's reasons for voting Drago? Well I don't think it's necessarily better, just because some of our reasons were less elaborately explained, and if you actually read this post they're not really the strongest points against him (Benson just listed some much better ones above), it's just formatted to look like a fancy case post. So I do think TL is a candidate for bussing here bc he saw Drago going down, preferred that over himself as he was getting votes before that, and pulled together these reasons to look like he really caught Drago. Maybe that's a silly thing to think is bus-compatible and again I don't currently suspect TL as much, so it could be a genuine case, just pointing out that I can see the potential of scum motive here.

Benson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:24 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:16 pm Something for everyone:

I seem to be off the mark on TL because unlike everyone else I don't see his case on Drago to be weak for a Day 1 case. Many of the rest of you voted Drago, what were your reasons?

He had a few wolfy posts I'm too lazy to pull up. In one he had this attitude about "catching" Mac in a TMI that seemed super fake. Also, when mac started getting votes he had the wolfiest pop-in to tell us he was working on a case against Mac.
Him not showing up on Tuesday what-so-ever meant he was worse than 112/tony/TL in my mind. And finally, I REALLY liked the people on the Drago wagon compared to the others.

Ok so TL mentions Mac in his reasons but he wasn't as specific as you were and he cites Drago not being around on Tuesday as another reason. Hopefully some others will respond too, thank you for yours.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:40 pm @juliets here is TL's Drago case for reference:

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:07 pm Okay just finshed Dragomir's ISO don't see multy quotes so heres my thoughts on him

-Seemed to go alittle far with evenstar (not alignment indicative)
-Made a case on 112 based off characters claims saying that a town wouldn't play that way but the case became empty due to random characters
-Not a lot of depth short anwsers threw shade on Mac leaving his vote there before leaving
-hasn't posted in thread since early yesterday morning (my time atleast)

Don't think this is enough to call him 100% scum but i don't think he has been pushing a town presence would love if he could come back and post a little. I know this is ironic coming from me but atleast am here now.


Conclusion
----------------
Scum lean on him based off what he did push when he was fairly active so willing to lynch this today, him missing for a long period doesn't make him look any better either.

(someone tell me the command for voting i didn't see it when i looked sorry for being a bother)

So your question is why is this worse than other people's reasons for voting Drago? Well I don't think it's necessarily better, just because some of our reasons were less elaborately explained, and if you actually read this post they're not really the strongest points against him (Benson just listed some much better ones above), it's just formatted to look like a fancy case post. So I do think TL is a candidate for bussing here bc he saw Drago going down, preferred that over himself as he was getting votes before that, and pulled together these reasons to look like he really caught Drago. Maybe that's a silly thing to think is bus-compatible and again I don't currently suspect TL as much, so it could be a genuine case, just pointing out that I can see the potential of scum motive here.

Thanks for your opinion nutella. I guess he could have a more powerful role than Drago's and that's why he preferred to see him go down before him. I'll move him back to null, re-read the whole thing and see if I lean scum.

I'm going to work on finding the points where there were ties in the vote records as Hyena requested. I'll check back here in case I get tagged.

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:49 pm I'm going to work on finding the points where there were ties in the vote records as Hyena requested. I'll check back here in case I get tagged.

You're doing yeoman's work, Juliets.

Hyena wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:47 pm

boo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:08 pm My biggest suspect within our group is Hyena (and, happily enough, in general). The drive to force a tie (s)he, sorry, don't know most of you in this game yet engaged in struck me as wrong at the time, going so far as to ask me after I put the no lynch vote down to flip it to help cause a tie.

So, I gave an explanation earlier for why I was trying to tie the wagons as much as possible at EoD. I don't think we would've gathered much information if the wagons remained uneven before, like, the last moment. People were changing their votes between Dragomir and 112 until the very last moment, but there wouldn't have been a need to if one wagon remained greater than the other.

What exactly is the information we gathered, please?

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:44 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:24 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:16 pm Something for everyone:

I seem to be off the mark on TL because unlike everyone else I don't see his case on Drago to be weak for a Day 1 case. Many of the rest of you voted Drago, what were your reasons?

He had a few wolfy posts I'm too lazy to pull up. In one he had this attitude about "catching" Mac in a TMI that seemed super fake. Also, when mac started getting votes he had the wolfiest pop-in to tell us he was working on a case against Mac.
Him not showing up on Tuesday what-so-ever meant he was worse than 112/tony/TL in my mind. And finally, I REALLY liked the people on the Drago wagon compared to the others.

Ok so TL mentions Mac in his reasons but he wasn't as specific as you were and he cites Drago not being around on Tuesday as another reason. Hopefully some others will respond too, thank you for yours.

Trustworthy Liberal listed four points. The first point is indicated as NAI. The fourth point, not showing up, is also NAI for me, because I tend to assume that life got in the way. The second point was on a Day 0 case, I believe, which must be shallow by necessity. The third point makes sense if you expect Dragomir to be analytic; he wasn't, but neither is Trustworthy Liberal, who also has little progression on Dragomir. As written, it's a weak case. And therein lies the rub: I would not expect Trustworthy Liberal to produce a strong written case as town, either. He basically decides he wants to vote Dragomir, reads the ISO, and then supports the vote with thoughts derived from that reading. This is indistinguishable from scum manufacturing a case, except that Trustworthy Liberal does it overtly.

[mention]Trustworthy Liberal[/mention], why did you read Dragomir's ISO before placing your vote? It seems to me that you had already decided to vote Dragomir before you read the ISO. Why did you want to vote for Dragomir in the beginning, before you read his ISO? Why did you pick him, and not another wagon?

^ Elephant, that is precisely my interpretation. It was likely a decision to vote Drago first, with the analysis coming post hoc.

Conversely, I can make a similar interpretation to Long Con's analysis of TLib (to a lesser degree). He is almost looking for any reason to call TLib wolfy, without looking for the reasons he *could* be town.

From Tlib: "Hyena if you remember i am very reluctent to vote every since it got me killed in my first forum game thats why am ready the Dragomir person first"

That's obviously an incredibly wolfy mindset to have - not voting for fear of looking bad. But it is TLib, and I trust he does actually get mislyched a lot.

Elephant wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:36 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:44 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:24 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:16 pm Something for everyone:

I seem to be off the mark on TL because unlike everyone else I don't see his case on Drago to be weak for a Day 1 case. Many of the rest of you voted Drago, what were your reasons?

He had a few wolfy posts I'm too lazy to pull up. In one he had this attitude about "catching" Mac in a TMI that seemed super fake. Also, when mac started getting votes he had the wolfiest pop-in to tell us he was working on a case against Mac.
Him not showing up on Tuesday what-so-ever meant he was worse than 112/tony/TL in my mind. And finally, I REALLY liked the people on the Drago wagon compared to the others.

Ok so TL mentions Mac in his reasons but he wasn't as specific as you were and he cites Drago not being around on Tuesday as another reason. Hopefully some others will respond too, thank you for yours.

Trustworthy Liberal listed four points. The first point is indicated as NAI. The fourth point, not showing up, is also NAI for me, because I tend to assume that life got in the way. The second point was on a Day 0 case, I believe, which must be shallow by necessity. The third point makes sense if you expect Dragomir to be analytic; he wasn't, but neither is Trustworthy Liberal, who also has little progression on Dragomir. As written, it's a weak case. And therein lies the rub: I would not expect Trustworthy Liberal to produce a strong written case as town, either. He basically decides he wants to vote Dragomir, reads the ISO, and then supports the vote with thoughts derived from that reading.

Spoiler: show

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:46 pm Okay lets think might vote for Dragomir but will ISO first now that am home on not using a phone no offense but this site is really hard to use on mobile.

Monica Gif

Spoiler: show

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:50 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:47 pm @Trustworthy Liberal
You should place a vote. :P

That goes for @DFaraday , @novaselinenever , and @Rej, too, even though they haven't been active.

Hyena if you remember i am very reluctent to vote every since it got me killed in my first forum game thats why am ready the Dragomir person first

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:07 pm Okay just finshed Dragomir's ISO don't see multy quotes so heres my thoughts on him

-Seemed to go alittle far with evenstar (not alignment indicative)
-Made a case on 112 based off characters claims saying that a town wouldn't play that way but the case became empty due to random characters
-Not a lot of depth short anwsers threw shade on Mac leaving his vote there before leaving
-hasn't posted in thread since early yesterday morning (my time atleast)

Don't think this is enough to call him 100% scum but i don't think he has been pushing a town presence would love if he could come back and post a little. I know this is ironic coming from me but atleast am here now.


Conclusion
----------------
Scum lean on him based off what he did push when he was fairly active so willing to lynch this today, him missing for a long period doesn't make him look any better either.

(someone tell me the command for voting i didn't see it when i looked sorry for being a bother)

This is indistinguishable from scum manufacturing a case, except that Trustworthy Liberal does it overtly.

@Trustworthy Liberal, why did you read Dragomir's ISO before placing your vote? It seems to me that you had already decided to vote Dragomir before you read the ISO. Why did you want to vote for Dragomir in the beginning, before you read his ISO? Why did you pick him, and not another wagon?

I always atleast like to look through ISO's and had actually seen other wagons and didn't scum read any of them that point and don't really at this point either so reading the one in the most mystery to me atleast seemed like it would give me the best view on wagons i was willing to vote and came to the conclusion I did and voted.

Elephant wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:36 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:44 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:24 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:16 pm Something for everyone:

I seem to be off the mark on TL because unlike everyone else I don't see his case on Drago to be weak for a Day 1 case. Many of the rest of you voted Drago, what were your reasons?

He had a few wolfy posts I'm too lazy to pull up. In one he had this attitude about "catching" Mac in a TMI that seemed super fake. Also, when mac started getting votes he had the wolfiest pop-in to tell us he was working on a case against Mac.
Him not showing up on Tuesday what-so-ever meant he was worse than 112/tony/TL in my mind. And finally, I REALLY liked the people on the Drago wagon compared to the others.

Ok so TL mentions Mac in his reasons but he wasn't as specific as you were and he cites Drago not being around on Tuesday as another reason. Hopefully some others will respond too, thank you for yours.

Trustworthy Liberal listed four points. The first point is indicated as NAI. The fourth point, not showing up, is also NAI for me, because I tend to assume that life got in the way. The second point was on a Day 0 case, I believe, which must be shallow by necessity. The third point makes sense if you expect Dragomir to be analytic; he wasn't, but neither is Trustworthy Liberal, who also has little progression on Dragomir. As written, it's a weak case. And therein lies the rub: I would not expect Trustworthy Liberal to produce a strong written case as town, either. He basically decides he wants to vote Dragomir, reads the ISO, and then supports the vote with thoughts derived from that reading.

Spoiler: show

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:46 pm Okay lets think might vote for Dragomir but will ISO first now that am home on not using a phone no offense but this site is really hard to use on mobile.

Monica Gif

Spoiler: show

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:50 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:47 pm @Trustworthy Liberal
You should place a vote. :P

That goes for @DFaraday , @novaselinenever , and @Rej, too, even though they haven't been active.

Hyena if you remember i am very reluctent to vote every since it got me killed in my first forum game thats why am ready the Dragomir person first

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:07 pm Okay just finshed Dragomir's ISO don't see multy quotes so heres my thoughts on him

-Seemed to go alittle far with evenstar (not alignment indicative)
-Made a case on 112 based off characters claims saying that a town wouldn't play that way but the case became empty due to random characters
-Not a lot of depth short anwsers threw shade on Mac leaving his vote there before leaving
-hasn't posted in thread since early yesterday morning (my time atleast)

Don't think this is enough to call him 100% scum but i don't think he has been pushing a town presence would love if he could come back and post a little. I know this is ironic coming from me but atleast am here now.


Conclusion
----------------
Scum lean on him based off what he did push when he was fairly active so willing to lynch this today, him missing for a long period doesn't make him look any better either.

(someone tell me the command for voting i didn't see it when i looked sorry for being a bother)

This is indistinguishable from scum manufacturing a case, except that Trustworthy Liberal does it overtly.

@Trustworthy Liberal, why did you read Dragomir's ISO before placing your vote? It seems to me that you had already decided to vote Dragomir before you read the ISO. Why did you want to vote for Dragomir in the beginning, before you read his ISO? Why did you pick him, and not another wagon?

Yeah actually Elephant the thing about him looking like he decided then doing the ISO is a great point. I'm interested to see what he says about that.

Benson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:08 pm From Tlib: "Hyena if you remember i am very reluctent to vote every since it got me killed in my first forum game thats why am ready the Dragomir person first"

That's obviously an incredibly wolfy mindset to have - not voting for fear of looking bad. But it is TLib, and I trust he does actually get mislyched a lot.

It is but after getting lynched three games in the first two days cause I was willing to vote much easier to show where i was thinking, I kinda have trouble just going if that makes sense.

[mention]Hyena[/mention] - I am getting to the who was tied when by starting at the beginning of the day so I can see where the votes stood going into calendar day 2 of our Day 1 phase. I can tell some people were sitting on 112 at least going into EOD. I'm going to go ahead and publish each day of voting as I go - I will be sure to finish this tonight. I hope I didn't make a mistake anywhere but anyone who see's one should call it out to me.

[mention]nutella[/mention] - god dang it that aubergine search doesn't seem to work. I used advanced settings search and tried it with and without the * but it only brought up the 3 times aubergine was mentioned without a vote. Do you know how to make it work? Ctl F does nothing probably because I'm on a Mac, so I'm scrolling through the thread to get these votes.

October 27th

p.m.
6:05 - Hyena voted Epi
6:06 - vanity voted sprityo
6:07 - 112 voted TSP
6:08 - Benson voted 112
6:10 - Pawn voted LC
6:11 - Eva voted Hyena
6:12 - Hyena voted LC
6:15 - TSP voted juliets
6:24 - Eva voted Epi
6:25 - Hyena voted Epi
6:28 - Creature voted Epi or "Diagnosis" maybe this was a joke
6:32 - Epi voted Hyena
6:37 - Drago voted Mac
6:40 - Hyena unvoted Epi
6:46 - Hyena voted Spiny
6:49 - Hyena voted Pawn
7:05 - Pawn voted Hyena
7:45 - Eva voted Hyena
7:56 - Mac voted LC
8:13 - Mac voted Eva
8:14 - Hyena voted Eva
8:15 - Eva voted Mac
8:51 - iaafr voted Eva
9:00 - sprityo voted Eva
9:17 - LC voted iaafr
9:17 - Eva voted Hyena
10:17 - iaafr voted 112
10:23 - iaafr voted Eva
10:56 - iaafr voted Hyena
11:05 - iaafr voted nutella
11:07 - LC voted nutella
11:10 - Eva voted Nanook
11:12 - Eva voted iaafr
11:22 - Mac voted TSP
11:47 - LC voted Mac
11:54 - iaafr voted Drago

End of October 27th
sprityo (1 ) vanity
TSP (2) Mac, 112
112 (1 ) Benson
Hyena (2) Pawn, Epi
juliets (1) TSP
Epi (1) Creature (if it wasn't a joke)
Mac (2) LC, Drago
Eva (2) Hyena, sprityo
iaafr (1) Eva
Drago (1)iaafr

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:27 pm

Elephant wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:36 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:44 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:24 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:16 pm Something for everyone:

I seem to be off the mark on TL because unlike everyone else I don't see his case on Drago to be weak for a Day 1 case. Many of the rest of you voted Drago, what were your reasons?

He had a few wolfy posts I'm too lazy to pull up. In one he had this attitude about "catching" Mac in a TMI that seemed super fake. Also, when mac started getting votes he had the wolfiest pop-in to tell us he was working on a case against Mac.
Him not showing up on Tuesday what-so-ever meant he was worse than 112/tony/TL in my mind. And finally, I REALLY liked the people on the Drago wagon compared to the others.

Ok so TL mentions Mac in his reasons but he wasn't as specific as you were and he cites Drago not being around on Tuesday as another reason. Hopefully some others will respond too, thank you for yours.

Trustworthy Liberal listed four points. The first point is indicated as NAI. The fourth point, not showing up, is also NAI for me, because I tend to assume that life got in the way. The second point was on a Day 0 case, I believe, which must be shallow by necessity. The third point makes sense if you expect Dragomir to be analytic; he wasn't, but neither is Trustworthy Liberal, who also has little progression on Dragomir. As written, it's a weak case. And therein lies the rub: I would not expect Trustworthy Liberal to produce a strong written case as town, either. He basically decides he wants to vote Dragomir, reads the ISO, and then supports the vote with thoughts derived from that reading.

Spoiler: show

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:46 pm Okay lets think might vote for Dragomir but will ISO first now that am home on not using a phone no offense but this site is really hard to use on mobile.

Monica Gif

Spoiler: show

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:50 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:47 pm @Trustworthy Liberal
You should place a vote. :P

That goes for @DFaraday , @novaselinenever , and @Rej, too, even though they haven't been active.

Hyena if you remember i am very reluctent to vote every since it got me killed in my first forum game thats why am ready the Dragomir person first

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:07 pm Okay just finshed Dragomir's ISO don't see multy quotes so heres my thoughts on him

-Seemed to go alittle far with evenstar (not alignment indicative)
-Made a case on 112 based off characters claims saying that a town wouldn't play that way but the case became empty due to random characters
-Not a lot of depth short anwsers threw shade on Mac leaving his vote there before leaving
-hasn't posted in thread since early yesterday morning (my time atleast)

Don't think this is enough to call him 100% scum but i don't think he has been pushing a town presence would love if he could come back and post a little. I know this is ironic coming from me but atleast am here now.


Conclusion
----------------
Scum lean on him based off what he did push when he was fairly active so willing to lynch this today, him missing for a long period doesn't make him look any better either.

(someone tell me the command for voting i didn't see it when i looked sorry for being a bother)

This is indistinguishable from scum manufacturing a case, except that Trustworthy Liberal does it overtly.

@Trustworthy Liberal, why did you read Dragomir's ISO before placing your vote? It seems to me that you had already decided to vote Dragomir before you read the ISO. Why did you want to vote for Dragomir in the beginning, before you read his ISO? Why did you pick him, and not another wagon?

I always atleast like to look through ISO's and had actually seen other wagons and didn't scum read any of them that point and don't really at this point either so reading the one in the most mystery to me atleast seemed like it would give me the best view on wagons i was willing to vote and came to the conclusion I did and voted.

Thank you!

Has anyone (mainly Nutella & Creature) fully substantiated what you don't like with Spiny. I struggle to find anything bad.

Benson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:58 pm Has anyone (mainly Nutella & Creature) fully substantiated what you don't like with Spiny. I struggle to find anything bad.

Me too.

[mention]juliets[/mention] yeah it doesn't work with built in forum search, just page search which is command F on Mac rather than ctrl

Benson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:58 pm Has anyone (mainly Nutella & Creature) fully substantiated what you don't like with Spiny. I struggle to find anything bad.

Yes look for my reply to juliets this morning

So you guys as I'm going through these votes I see people changing votes like every 5 to 10 minutes for a period of time. I don't understand what they are doing. They are not pressure votes because there's not time for the person they voted for to even see it. In some cases others vote right after them and then they change and the other(s) follow. It seems scummy to me but a lot of the people from MU and the champs spec chat are doing it so there's got to be some point here - what is it?

Hey dudes, sorry I've been not around all day. Worked during the day, then dinner and Hallowe'en - costume - trick-or-treating time. I was Thanos! I'm going to get caught up and continue playing.

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:48 pm So you guys as I'm going through these votes I see people changing votes like every 5 to 10 minutes for a period of time. I don't understand what they are doing. They are not pressure votes because there's not time for the person they voted for to even see it. In some cases others vote right after them and then they change and the other(s) follow. It seems scummy to me but a lot of the people from MU and the champs spec chat are doing it so there's got to be some point here - what is it?

I personally like to do that because I think quickly building up wagons can often yield telling responses. In my experience villagers are much less tentative and will be able to vote at their pleasure without the extra burden of trying to satisfy their wolf-agenda. Having the wagons build up so fast applies pressure and makes it a lot harder on the wolves as they have to simultaneously evaluate where and when they should vote to a) avoid future suspicion, and b) prevent their teammates from dying.

Ok here is October 28 the full first day of the phase. Sorry these aren't in alpha order because of the way I am doing it. Also, in the totals section the list of people who voted isn't necessarily in the order they voted. Eyeball the cumulative totals (from October 27th and then the 28th) and let me know if you see anything wrong - kids are knocking at the door and my husband for whatever reason is playing Pink Floyd as loud as he can for them (PF is scary?). From here I think I can figure out where the ties were on the 29th.

October 28

am
1:22 - Elephant voted Epi
1:37 - 112 voted Elephant
1:40 - iaafr voted Elephant
1:44 - Mac voted Elephant
1:46 - Benson voted Elephant
1:47 - Nanook voted Elephant
1:59 - Mac voted Creature
2:16 - nutella voted Rej
2:57 - Master Radishes voted sprityo
3:04 - iaafr voted sprityo
3:11 - nutella voted Pawn
6:08 - Creature voted Hyena
6:14 - TSP voted Pawn
6:16 - Creature voted Rej
6:18 - Mac voted Nova
7:11 - Creature voted Hyena
9:48 - Jack voted TSP
10:08 - Eva voted Pawn
11:31 - Eva votes Drago
11:39 - Pawn voted Drago
11:40 - Benson voted TSP
11:43 - Nanook voted Drago
pm
12:04 - Elephant voted 112
12:55 - vanity voted sprityo (this vote was logged last nite; he must not have voted in the poll)
12:55 - Eva voted nutella
2:17 - Creature voted juliets
2:25 - Jack voted Eva
2:27 - Creature voted Eva
2:34 - vanity voted 112
2:35 - Creature voted 112
2:41 - Benson voted sprityo
3:12 - Master Radish voted TSP
3:52 - Eva voted Elephant
3:52 - Benson voted TSP
4:16 - nutella voted Master Radishes
4:26 - Texas voted Eva
4:37 - Michelle voted Eva
4:37 - Eva voted Master Radish
4:48 - juliets voted TSP
4:51 - Pawn voted TSP
5:05 - iaafr voted TL
5:08 - Hyena voted Nanook
7:50 - Dom voted Hyena
7:53 - LLD voted nutella
8:40 - Eva voted nutella (I don't think she voted in the poll until Nanook did)
9:25 - Hyena voted LLD
9:36 - Nanook voted nutella
10:23 - Epi voted LLD
10:31 - Epi voted TSP
10:43 - Quin voted Eva
11:17 - Epi voted 112
11:38 - iaafr voted Drago
11:43 - Mac voted Long Con

End of October 28 - Cumulative Total
Epi - 0
Elephant - (1) 112
Creature - 0
Rej - 0
sprityo - 0
Pawn (1) - TSP
juliets - 0
nova - 0
Hyena (1) - Dom
TSP (4) - Benson, Master Radish, Pawn, juliets
Drago (1) - iaafr
112 (4) - Elephant, vanity, Creature, Epi
nutella (3) - LLD, Nanook, Eva
Eva (5) - sprityo, Jack, Texas, Michelle, Quin
Master Radishes (1) - nutella
Long Con (1) - Mac
iaafr - 0
Mac (2) - LC, Drago

Elephant wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:59 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:47 pm

boo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:08 pm My biggest suspect within our group is Hyena (and, happily enough, in general). The drive to force a tie (s)he, sorry, don't know most of you in this game yet engaged in struck me as wrong at the time, going so far as to ask me after I put the no lynch vote down to flip it to help cause a tie.

So, I gave an explanation earlier for why I was trying to tie the wagons as much as possible at EoD. I don't think we would've gathered much information if the wagons remained uneven before, like, the last moment. People were changing their votes between Dragomir and 112 until the very last moment, but there wouldn't have been a need to if one wagon remained greater than the other.

What exactly is the information we gathered, please?

Well, for one, Evenstar came back to the thread about 10 minutes before EoD (5:48pm specifically) after being gone for a couple hours, and she expressed over the top panic not only about the day almost being over, but also about Epi being wagoned. At that moment (you can double check using the vote info juliets posted this morning), Epi had four votes [iiafr, Mac, nova, and me]. Also at this moment, according to Juliet's timeline, 112 had four votes, too, before iaafr switched from Epi to 112 and putting 112 at 5 votes.

(Actually going back to look at it now, there had to be five votes before iaafr joined because 112 ended up with 7 votes, and only Nova and Eva joined and stayed on 112 after this time point. By the looks of it, these five people were [Creature, Tony, Elephant, Epi, and Jack]. This actually strengthens my case.)

Anyway, at that moment, the votes seemed to be 112 at 5 votes, Drago at 7 votes, and Epi at 4 votes. While you could believe that Eva genuinely came back at that moment and genuinely was frustrated with the Epi voters, she ended up not trying to go after the Epi voters. Instead, she ended up voting for 112 while also adding that she wasn't sure if Drago was scum or not. I have a suspicion that she returned that late in the day to try to bolster 112's wagon with her own vote to try to save 112. She placed her vote at 5:57pm, right near day end.

That was just ONE thing I noticed.

Also, thank you for posting all these votes for us. It really was useful while making my last post. <3

Hyena wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:56 pm Also, thank you for posting all these votes for us. It really was useful while making my last post. <3

[mention]juliets[/mention]

Benson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:43 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:48 pm So you guys as I'm going through these votes I see people changing votes like every 5 to 10 minutes for a period of time. I don't understand what they are doing. They are not pressure votes because there's not time for the person they voted for to even see it. In some cases others vote right after them and then they change and the other(s) follow. It seems scummy to me but a lot of the people from MU and the champs spec chat are doing it so there's got to be some point here - what is it?

I personally like to do that because I think quickly building up wagons can often yield telling responses. In my experience villagers are much less tentative and will be able to vote at their pleasure without the extra burden of trying to satisfy their wolf-agenda. Having the wagons build up so fast applies pressure and makes it a lot harder on the wolves as they have to simultaneously evaluate where and when they should vote to a) avoid future suspicion, and b) prevent their teammates from dying.

^ Pretty much this.

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:21 am @Long Con as it pertains to TL's reasons for voting Drago, I didn't see anything wrong with those reasons. Were your reasons better? What were they?

I generally suspected him more than 112. He was preoccupied with trying to shape a case around 112 saying he was going to roleplay, even though I don't think 112 ever really did it. His "mindmeld buddies" comment on the Mac TMI thing was cringey as well... what did I say before, like a slick salesman or something?

It was also easy to want to vote for him due to his crap with Evenstar, which I didn't like. I don't know if that was alignment-indicative, but it sure made the vote easier.

Hyena wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:55 pm

Elephant wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:59 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:47 pm

boo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:08 pm My biggest suspect within our group is Hyena (and, happily enough, in general). The drive to force a tie (s)he, sorry, don't know most of you in this game yet engaged in struck me as wrong at the time, going so far as to ask me after I put the no lynch vote down to flip it to help cause a tie.

So, I gave an explanation earlier for why I was trying to tie the wagons as much as possible at EoD. I don't think we would've gathered much information if the wagons remained uneven before, like, the last moment. People were changing their votes between Dragomir and 112 until the very last moment, but there wouldn't have been a need to if one wagon remained greater than the other.

What exactly is the information we gathered, please?

Well, for one, Evenstar came back to the thread about 10 minutes before EoD (5:48pm specifically) after being gone for a couple hours, and she expressed over the top panic not only about the day almost being over, but also about Epi being wagoned. At that moment (you can double check using the vote info juliets posted this morning), Epi had four votes [iiafr, Mac, nova, and me]. Also at this moment, according to Juliet's timeline, 112 had four votes, too, before iaafr switched from Epi to 112 and putting 112 at 5 votes.

(Actually going back to look at it now, there had to be five votes before iaafr joined because 112 ended up with 7 votes, and only Nova and Eva joined and stayed on 112 after this time point. By the looks of it, these five people were [Creature, Tony, Elephant, Epi, and Jack]. This actually strengthens my case.)

Anyway, at that moment, the votes seemed to be 112 at 5 votes, Drago at 7 votes, and Epi at 4 votes. While you could believe that Eva genuinely came back at that moment and genuinely was frustrated with the Epi voters, she ended up not trying to go after the Epi voters. Instead, she ended up voting for 112 while also adding that she wasn't sure if Drago was scum or not. I have a suspicion that she returned that late in the day to try to bolster 112's wagon with her own vote to try to save 112. She placed her vote at 5:57pm, right near day end.

That was just ONE thing I noticed.

You mean Drago here, right? Or Epi?

Yeah, Eva definitely lost a lot of her town equity after that EoD performance.

Also, when you are analyzing votes at EoD... I always cast the vote in the poll before going to post about it, when the time was so short. Any vote I declared in the thread was preceded by the actual vote a minute or two earlier. I doubt that affects the analysis, but there ya go.

Benson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:43 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:48 pm So you guys as I'm going through these votes I see people changing votes like every 5 to 10 minutes for a period of time. I don't understand what they are doing. They are not pressure votes because there's not time for the person they voted for to even see it. In some cases others vote right after them and then they change and the other(s) follow. It seems scummy to me but a lot of the people from MU and the champs spec chat are doing it so there's got to be some point here - what is it?

I personally like to do that because I think quickly building up wagons can often yield telling responses. In my experience villagers are much less tentative and will be able to vote at their pleasure without the extra burden of trying to satisfy their wolf-agenda. Having the wagons build up so fast applies pressure and makes it a lot harder on the wolves as they have to simultaneously evaluate where and when they should vote to a) avoid future suspicion, and b) prevent their teammates from dying.

ok I see what you are saying. I've personally never played this way or with others who play this way so it is completely foreign to me (well, I'm used to one or two throwing votes out seemingly randomly but not bunches of people doing it). Normally I am very deliberate about my vote, weighing the evidence and trying to determine if it really warrants a vote. I'll try to loosen up my style to get more in the spirit.

Benson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:59 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:55 pm

Elephant wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:59 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:47 pm

boo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:08 pm My biggest suspect within our group is Hyena (and, happily enough, in general). The drive to force a tie (s)he, sorry, don't know most of you in this game yet engaged in struck me as wrong at the time, going so far as to ask me after I put the no lynch vote down to flip it to help cause a tie.

So, I gave an explanation earlier for why I was trying to tie the wagons as much as possible at EoD. I don't think we would've gathered much information if the wagons remained uneven before, like, the last moment. People were changing their votes between Dragomir and 112 until the very last moment, but there wouldn't have been a need to if one wagon remained greater than the other.

What exactly is the information we gathered, please?

Well, for one, Evenstar came back to the thread about 10 minutes before EoD (5:48pm specifically) after being gone for a couple hours, and she expressed over the top panic not only about the day almost being over, but also about Epi being wagoned. At that moment (you can double check using the vote info juliets posted this morning), Epi had four votes [iiafr, Mac, nova, and me]. Also at this moment, according to Juliet's timeline, 112 had four votes, too, before iaafr switched from Epi to 112 and putting 112 at 5 votes.

(Actually going back to look at it now, there had to be five votes before iaafr joined because 112 ended up with 7 votes, and only Nova and Eva joined and stayed on 112 after this time point. By the looks of it, these five people were [Creature, Tony, Elephant, Epi, and Jack]. This actually strengthens my case.)

Anyway, at that moment, the votes seemed to be 112 at 5 votes, Drago at 7 votes, and Epi at 4 votes. While you could believe that Eva genuinely came back at that moment and genuinely was frustrated with the Epi voters, she ended up not trying to go after the Epi voters. Instead, she ended up voting for 112 while also adding that she wasn't sure if Drago was scum or not. I have a suspicion that she returned that late in the day to try to bolster 112's wagon with her own vote to try to save 112. She placed her vote at 5:57pm, right near day end.

That was just ONE thing I noticed.

You mean Drago here, right? Or Epi?

Yeah, Eva definitely lost a lot of her town equity after that EoD performance.

DRAGO

Thank you for catching that error. >.<

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:01 pm Also, when you are analyzing votes at EoD... I always cast the vote in the poll before going to post about it, when the time was so short. Any vote I declared in the thread was preceded by the actual vote a minute or two earlier. I doubt that affects the analysis, but there ya go.

The only time it would matter is if you or someone else switched their vote a couple times without announcing each change in the thread. I think this may have happened at one point, because I remember one of the wagons making a sudden jump upwards and it didn't seem to match the announced votes in the thread. Either way, in this case, I don't think it matters.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:59 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:21 am @Long Con as it pertains to TL's reasons for voting Drago, I didn't see anything wrong with those reasons. Were your reasons better? What were they?

I generally suspected him more than 112. He was preoccupied with trying to shape a case around 112 saying he was going to roleplay, even though I don't think 112 ever really did it. His "mindmeld buddies" comment on the Mac TMI thing was cringey as well... what did I say before, like a slick salesman or something?

It was also easy to want to vote for him due to his crap with Evenstar, which I didn't like. I don't know if that was alignment-indicative, but it sure made the vote easier.

Oh I forgot it was you that pointed out how fake his "mindmeld buddy" post was. I thought that was Jack tbh. I'll give you some town points for that because up until then Drago wasn't really in the line of fire.

Hyena wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:07 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:01 pm Also, when you are analyzing votes at EoD... I always cast the vote in the poll before going to post about it, when the time was so short. Any vote I declared in the thread was preceded by the actual vote a minute or two earlier. I doubt that affects the analysis, but there ya go.

The only time it would matter is if you or someone else switched their vote a couple times without announcing each change in the thread. I think this may have happened at one point, because I remember one of the wagons making a sudden jump upwards and it didn't seem to match the announced votes in the thread. Either way, in this case, I don't think it matters.

Yeah... I do remember being surprised by the vote totals right at the end, mostly because you and I were doing the exact same thing... I'm sure we both saw the 8-8 tie at like thirty seconds left, voted, and then came back to see 10-7 or something.

DFaraday wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:00 am

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:43 pmDFaraday - He's not around. I don't like that at this point of the game. Lean scum, seems like he's done this before as scum.

I mean, I've done this in basically every game for like five years, so...

I feel pretty good about Creature, mainly because the only other experience I have with him was when he was in my Arrowverse game, where he was scum, and he played completely differently to what I'm seeing here.

I like LC's case on TrustworthyLiberal, whose responses weren't super convincing to me. I haven't even tried to catch up on the 70 pages or so since I last checked in, so I don't have a lot of reads atm, but so far I guess I'm leaning towards lynching TL.

I want you to make more noise.

[VOTE: DFaraday] aubergine

What is the bussing culture like on this forum? I know that's a weird question but I've noticed it can differ site to site. For example my home forum - CanucksCommunity - is VERY pro-bussing. Almost so much so that we always expect it. But conversely, MU had way more anti-bus folks in the games I played and it happened less often.

Benson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:12 pm What is the bussing culture like on this forum? I know that's a weird question but I've noticed it can differ site to site. For example my home forum - CanucksCommunity - is VERY pro-bussing. Almost so much so that we always expect it. But conversely, MU had way more anti-bus folks in the games I played and it happened less often.

Varies from player to player. I've had wolf games where we all bus, and games where we all defend each other.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:10 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:07 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:01 pm Also, when you are analyzing votes at EoD... I always cast the vote in the poll before going to post about it, when the time was so short. Any vote I declared in the thread was preceded by the actual vote a minute or two earlier. I doubt that affects the analysis, but there ya go.

The only time it would matter is if you or someone else switched their vote a couple times without announcing each change in the thread. I think this may have happened at one point, because I remember one of the wagons making a sudden jump upwards and it didn't seem to match the announced votes in the thread. Either way, in this case, I don't think it matters.

Yeah... I do remember being surprised by the vote totals right at the end, mostly because you and I were doing the exact same thing... I'm sure we both saw the 8-8 tie at like thirty seconds left, voted, and then came back to see 10-7 or something.

YUP. That's the moment I was talking about. I wish I had taken a screenshot at that moment to see what had happened, but I was too busy trying to unvote to keep the wagons semi-even.

Benson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:12 pm [VOTE: DFaraday] aubergine

I went to ISO DFaraday after those votes. Then I didn't know what to do with the rest of my minute.