Space Invaders [END]

[MacDougall]

Please don't talk nutella into losing the game. Please realise that if I was Mafia I would be pushing on everyone. Just like pretend you believe me and ignore your tinfoil desires because you'll benefit from it.

benefit from it HOW. You just spewed me town.

nvm, I cant read.

Cant trust you Mac, you gave me nothing to go on and you keep pushing Alison.

What's wrong with pushing Alison?

[protocultures]

Epi will be out of saves, something to consider. I think this is fine though.

this goes to my night 7 point and why I dont understand how TSP thinks he can follow this plan (which uses an asston of bunker saves) and still have me in his POE, because it is implied I will need to save Nutella on Night 7. If he has any suspicion on me at all, he should be screaming "no" to this plan.

This is unless he thinks he can convince Nutella from the time of this plan to Night 7 that I am not the most towny after Epi and wants to pick someone else to save Nutella on their own and needs to be alive at the start of day 8 top reduce POE for final shot if we get there (because cant ML day 6 AND 7).

[Epignosis]

I'm just going to consider Epi mechanically cleared for now unless someone claims a save on nutella, since I think any team with Epi in it just shoots nutella owing to the decision to have a protection chain where Epi was her only defender.

If proto is town (which is the most likely scenario), the teams are Carot/TSP, Carot/Mac or Mac/TSP. The Carot thing is most likely to me but I guess we're at the point in the game where I should be tinfoiling Mac/TSP.

@TSP yes I haven't done any catch up yet, they're a pain to do on phone, give me a bit

you literally responded to a post where we were talking about this

I'm sorry? Did you claim a save on nutella and I missed it?

You two can stop now.

[protocultures]

If I'm partners with Mac we shoot Alison. I do everything I can to paint myself w/w with Carot. Mac wins.
If I'm partners with Carot we shoot Alison. I do everything I can to paint myself w/w with Mac. Carot might win but it's a little closer.

Neither of these plans involve anything close to claiming a fake action that does nothing but put arbitrary suspicion on Epi.

And if you're partners with Alison?

Just ignore this whole explanation from TSP. He literally knows this is not true or is making a bad case to clear themself. I dont think town TSP makes bad cases.

TSP/Mac or TSP/Carot dont always shoot Alison. They no kill at night intentionally to keep POE wide. Its literally what he expected alien team to do. Theres no reason why an alien team which includes him does any different.

[protocultures]

Please don't talk nutella into losing the game. Please realise that if I was Mafia I would be pushing on everyone. Just like pretend you believe me and ignore your tinfoil desires because you'll benefit from it.

benefit from it HOW. You just spewed me town.

nvm, I cant read.

Cant trust you Mac, you gave me nothing to go on and you keep pushing Alison.

What's wrong with pushing Alison?

you are pushing my townread and ignoring Carot. Makes no sense my guy.

[Carotenoid]

proto please reevaluate your Alison townread

[protocultures]

Aliens pretty much always no shoot and I did the calculations and that ensures us day 8 if we misshoot tomorrow.

you can only ensure day 8 if you can ensure we hit an alien on Day 7. Where is this calculation?

I man, you can GET to day 8 with a ML on day 7, but there is no point in getting to day 8 if you cant get to day 9 to kill the last alien.

[protocultures]

proto please reevaluate your Alison townread

Ive tried because everyone is so paranoid.

Like almost of their posts are posts I would make, with different words.

The only thing that makes me think Alison might be alien, is that I am still within mafia range, so this can be a case of Alison being with their mafia range too.

[protocultures]

Aliens pretty much always no shoot and I did the calculations and that ensures us day 8 if we misshoot tomorrow.

you can only ensure day 8 if you can ensure we hit an alien on Day 7. Where is this calculation?

I man, you can GET to day 8 with a ML on day 7, but there is no point in getting to day 8 if you cant get to day 9 to kill the last alien.

I "mean".

[protocultures]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention]

You are well within the territory of "sometimes slack off in games as town and get scum read for not living up to Mac's general meta" right now.

[protocultures]

[mention]Alison[/mention]

can you link me to a few prev games and let me know which ones you are town/mafia? If mafia in those games, can you also list your team?

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall

You are well within the territory of "sometimes slack off in games as town and get scum read for not living up to Mac's general meta" right now.

Stop bullying me

[Carotenoid]

hmn so I opened proto, TSP & Alison ISO's and I don't wanna do this anymore lol

I'll just go through protocultures quickly to see if it's worrying

[Carotenoid]

how do you even end up with 655 posts in a game smh
proto stop posting you have exactly 666 posts lol

[MacDougall]

hmn so I opened proto, TSP & Alison ISO's and I don't wanna do this anymore lol

I'll just go through protocultures quickly to see if it's worrying

Mood

[Alison]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/22356 - mafia with crimson and elijah

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/26090 - town

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/26090 - mafia with alabaster and horak

[MacDougall]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/22356 - mafia with crimson and elijah

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/26090 - town

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/26090 - mafia with alabaster and horak

Do you think this is gonna show you are town or make you look worse?

[Carotenoid]

Alison your last link is the same as the second one

[Carotenoid]

proto thought N2 that aliens only have one kill and I believe proto never no kill during N2

it's just Alison/TSP

[Alison]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/22356 - mafia with crimson and elijah

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/26090 - town

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/26090 - mafia with alabaster and horak

Do you think this is gonna show you are town or make you look worse?

no clue. I just pasted the links of last three games I played on MU, and I don't recall the specifics of how they went down because I played some of them as far back as a year ago.

[MacDougall]

proto thought N2 that aliens only have one kill and I believe proto never no kill during N2

it's just Alison/TSP

I think so too

[Alison]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/22395

Is the mafia with alabaster and horak link, screwed it up in the original post sorry

[Alison]

proto thought N2 that aliens only have one kill and I believe proto never no kill during N2

it's just Alison/TSP

Why does town Carot here not consider the possibility of Alison/Mac? I have a hard time believing that two interactions with Rej hold that much water for you in an endgame situation.

[Carotenoid]

[mention]protocultures[/mention]

God, I'm stuck in Thursday afternoon. It's Friday evening here.

Oh well. Time to make the doughnuts.

dunya, I mentioned above a bit that I had basically the whole game as null or town. Caro is one of the players I think is suspicious, based on what I raised above about her progression on me. I might have better/firmer scumreads for you after I re-eval but as it stands my PoE is something like [Caro, LC, Rej] or something. Basically just Caro + two people I can't read. Everyone says Rej is scummy but frankly my eyes glaze over so hard when I read the stuff he writes I can't form an independent opinion on him so.

can you take the player list and gun to your head, assign each player as either town or scum?

its a neat exercise where we decide GTH without lots of facts and evidence to back up our reads, what our intuition says.

i love it tbh

This is very far from my usual style but, gun to my head: LC scum, Caro scum, Rej town out of that PoE. For some reason I want to say Dizzy scum even though their mindmeld with me makes me townread them and my feeling towards them is town in general. I don't know why. Everyone else is town probably.

Don't ask me to justify any of this, it's pure guesswork. :P

Qualifier here.

"This is very far from my usual style but"

Note the very and the formula of the phrase. Already it's a hedge.

"Rej town out of that PoE"

I get this is in response to a "GTH" prod, but I don't care. The "Don't ask me to justify any of this, it's pure guesswork. :P" creates a hedge sandwich. These are ideas delivered while begging to escape scrutiny or accountability. I don't think a civilian who has nothing to worry about as long as nutella trusts him or her has any need to give a shit about what anybody else thinks. This looks like shits are given. This looks like a Rej teammate.

I'm posting this. I'll be back with the weather at 11.

Rej is actually a null read for me, but dunya asked me to read people gun to head so I just blurted out the first word that comes to mind (town or scum) when I think of their name, without thinking too hard about it. Like I said, don't ask me to justify any of those reads.

Just in case anybody is really concerned about that Rej opinion, here's a quick followup (buttressed by an adverb "actually") that essentially tells us that Alison doesn't want anybody to take it seriously.

This isn't trying to figure Rej out. This is "Shit, I have to say something about Rej."

[Alison]

God, I'm stuck in Thursday afternoon. It's Friday evening here.

Oh well. Time to make the doughnuts.

dunya, I mentioned above a bit that I had basically the whole game as null or town. Caro is one of the players I think is suspicious, based on what I raised above about her progression on me. I might have better/firmer scumreads for you after I re-eval but as it stands my PoE is something like [Caro, LC, Rej] or something. Basically just Caro + two people I can't read. Everyone says Rej is scummy but frankly my eyes glaze over so hard when I read the stuff he writes I can't form an independent opinion on him so.

can you take the player list and gun to your head, assign each player as either town or scum?

its a neat exercise where we decide GTH without lots of facts and evidence to back up our reads, what our intuition says.

i love it tbh

This is very far from my usual style but, gun to my head: LC scum, Caro scum, Rej town out of that PoE. For some reason I want to say Dizzy scum even though their mindmeld with me makes me townread them and my feeling towards them is town in general. I don't know why. Everyone else is town probably.

Don't ask me to justify any of this, it's pure guesswork. :P

Qualifier here.

"This is very far from my usual style but"

Note the very and the formula of the phrase. Already it's a hedge.

"Rej town out of that PoE"

I get this is in response to a "GTH" prod, but I don't care. The "Don't ask me to justify any of this, it's pure guesswork. :P" creates a hedge sandwich. These are ideas delivered while begging to escape scrutiny or accountability. I don't think a civilian who has nothing to worry about as long as nutella trusts him or her has any need to give a shit about what anybody else thinks. This looks like shits are given. This looks like a Rej teammate.

I'm posting this. I'll be back with the weather at 11.

You're absolutely correct - I'm hedging and I don't want people to hold me accountable for my GTH reads. Because GTH reads suck. I did it because dunya asked me to, and if it helps her solving style so be it. But the GTH are purely intuition based reads that have 0 connection to any kind of logic or reasoning, so I absolutely don't want people to ask me to justify them, or hold me accountable for them because I don't endorse them. Hold me accountable for my actual reads, but not this free-association stuff. I also wrote LC scum and Dizzy scum in that GTH - both reads I don't currently endorse. If you want to ask me to give a list of reads off the top of my head without engaging in any kind of logical thought or analysis, don't also expect me to stand by them.

[Alison]

Rej is actually a null read for me, but dunya asked me to read people gun to head so I just blurted out the first word that comes to mind (town or scum) when I think of their name, without thinking too hard about it. Like I said, don't ask me to justify any of those reads.

Just in case anybody is really concerned about that Rej opinion, here's a quick followup (buttressed by an adverb "actually") that essentially tells us that Alison doesn't want anybody to take it seriously.

This isn't trying to figure Rej out. This is "Shit, I have to say something about Rej."

You're correct again. I did, in fact, have to say something about Rej, because Hally questioned me about my GTH read. Rej was in fact a null read for me at the point in time I wrote that post, and I even wrote a post saying that Rej/LC/TSP were players I couldn't get a lock on because my eyes kept glazing over when I looked at their posts. I put Rej as town on my GTH, and Hally went "I don't understand why anyone would townread Rej", so I explained to her my thought process. You're right when you say that I don't want people to take my GTH seriously. I don't, because GTHs are logically unsound, and historically speaking my "intuition" reads have been a lot less correct than my logic-based ones.

[Alison]

Nice work intentionally omitting the followup to try to make me look scummy. Weird how you never commented on that Epi argument a single time or mentioned how it affected your read on me, but now suddenly it's the argument you pull out when trying to convince proto I'm scum.

[Carotenoid]

proto thought N2 that aliens only have one kill and I believe proto never no kill during N2

it's just Alison/TSP

Why does town Carot here not consider the possibility of Alison/Mac? I have a hard time believing that two interactions with Rej hold that much water for you in an endgame situation.

why is everyone asking me this I feel like I've already explained this gazillions of times lol

[Carotenoid]

I did say your GTH looked terrible
(dunya's too but oh well lol)

Anyway, as much as I would like protocultures to stop townreading you I don't actually need to do so and this is getting a bit boring and tiring so

Alison/TSP final words.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Does town TSP do this? I have no idea.

You have properly gone rogue here.

Town TSP went rogue on a mechanical plan last game.


He also knows that I know that.

How did it work out. If it went well it's more likely TSP does it again as town and vice versa.

hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha

[TonyStarkPrime]

If he didn't even save night one and was being clever anyways then I see super no reason to clear him.

How many times have you all tried to kill me?

I’m thinking back to GOC where you were softcleared on tone and zero game state reasons and then won the game. It seems similar.

[Carotenoid]

using more than 6-7 ha in a row without using caps

wolfy

[TonyStarkPrime]

You hit 2 mafia at start. That helps so much more than finding mafia now.

We should find mafia for you since we have more info than you.

You did your job already. Don't feel pressure and nobody will blame you.

I mean if you shoot epi or me, you might get some grief ngl.

another clear point for epi/proto

How is this a clear point for us?

Proto as wolf doesn’t say that Nutella will get grief if she shoots him or his teammate. Unless he saw the irony in it faster than I did.

[TonyStarkPrime]

If I'm partners with Mac we shoot Alison. I do everything I can to paint myself w/w with Carot. Mac wins.
If I'm partners with Carot we shoot Alison. I do everything I can to paint myself w/w with Mac. Carot might win but it's a little closer.

Neither of these plans involve anything close to claiming a fake action that does nothing but put arbitrary suspicion on Epi.

And if you're partners with Alison?

I can be partners with Alison. I might do this as a wolf with Alison.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Aliens pretty much always no shoot and I did the calculations and that ensures us day 8 if we misshoot tomorrow.

you can only ensure day 8 if you can ensure we hit an alien on Day 7. Where is this calculation?

I man, you can GET to day 8 with a ML on day 7, but there is no point in getting to day 8 if you cant get to day 9 to kill the last alien.

you can't get to day 8 if you mislaser day 6 and day 7. I was considering one mislaser. It holds.
With some luck on night 6

[TonyStarkPrime]

If I'm partners with Mac we shoot Alison. I do everything I can to paint myself w/w with Carot. Mac wins.
If I'm partners with Carot we shoot Alison. I do everything I can to paint myself w/w with Mac. Carot might win but it's a little closer.

Neither of these plans involve anything close to claiming a fake action that does nothing but put arbitrary suspicion on Epi.

And if you're partners with Alison?

Just ignore this whole explanation from TSP. He literally knows this is not true or is making a bad case to clear themself. I dont think town TSP makes bad cases.

TSP/Mac or TSP/Carot dont always shoot Alison. They no kill at night intentionally to keep POE wide. Its literally what he expected alien team to do. Theres no reason why an alien team which includes him does any different.

but I also don't do these stupid things now do I

[Carotenoid]

I feel kinda bad ignoring this thread when it's a crucial moment so I'll post a gif every hour for the WIM

PEW PEW ALIENS

[protocultures]

If I'm partners with Mac we shoot Alison. I do everything I can to paint myself w/w with Carot. Mac wins.
If I'm partners with Carot we shoot Alison. I do everything I can to paint myself w/w with Mac. Carot might win but it's a little closer.

Neither of these plans involve anything close to claiming a fake action that does nothing but put arbitrary suspicion on Epi.

And if you're partners with Alison?

Just ignore this whole explanation from TSP. He literally knows this is not true or is making a bad case to clear themself. I dont think town TSP makes bad cases.

TSP/Mac or TSP/Carot dont always shoot Alison. They no kill at night intentionally to keep POE wide. Its literally what he expected alien team to do. Theres no reason why an alien team which includes him does any different.

but I also don't do these stupid things now do I

nah, it looks like you tried to put out a reasonable sounding defence.

I'm like 85% sure there is 2 maf within TSP/Mac/Carot and want TSP shot first over Mac now I think.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

[TonyStarkPrime]

wanna lock in Carot/Proto ngl

[TonyStarkPrime]

Alison/Proto is the second stab at it but no one ever gets there

[Carotenoid]

BYE BYE ALIENS

[Carotenoid]

PIOUWWWWWWWW

[TonyStarkPrime]

Mac is super MIA

[protocultures]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/22395

Is the mafia with alabaster and horak link, screwed it up in the original post sorry

Some elements of play are not in sync with this game, others are. In this, I feel Alison threw out some reads with no backup. In Space Invaders, I havent found that to be the case. Other posts are more in the style of her posts in Space Invaders. I dont get any firm conclusions on their "normal mafia" play from this and am not flipping my read.

[protocultures]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/22356 - mafia with crimson and elijah

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/26090 - town

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/26090 - mafia with alabaster and horak

Looking at the town game. Seems they Alison has played with dizzy previously. Not catching them in a lie, just saying, I didnt know that before.

All seems mostly in line. I would say Alison is a bit more confident in pushing their reads in the MU game than in here. Just my feeling. No hard conclusions and nothing in here to make me think of flipping my read.

The mafia game with crimson elijah - small sample size, but have now seen 2 games as mafia open with a blind vote on someone. Maybe not blind, but its a vote with no backup for it. Seems a tiny bit more aggro than what I have seen in Space Invaders. NGL, didnt read the entire iso. Just enough to get an inkling of style.

Takeaway is that Alison in Space Invaders is within their mafia range. Thats about all I can conclude.

[nutella]

Nutella said she isnt likely to shoot Alison.

Nutella has said she might shoot you

false and false

[nutella]

[mention]Epignosis[/mention] what is the most compelling reason to believe Carotenoid is town?

[mention]protocultures[/mention] what is the most compelling reason to believe Alison is town?

[protocultures]

@Epignosis what is the most compelling reason to believe Carotenoid is town?

@protocultures what is the most compelling reason to believe Alison is town?

Alison asks the questions I want to ask. Makes the comments I want to make. Draws the conclusions I can reasonably see. Some of our assumptions about how other people might think are different. The one that springs to mind is re attemps to sway Nutella's protection plan and how they assumed other people would think about what Nutella was doing.

Strictly speaking, yes, they could be doing this within their mafia range so its more evidence of legitimacy of process rather than a strong read on town/scum. I dont think they needed to apply it this game, they could have just gone a more feels approach and been less solvy. Maybe they would be paranoid Dizzy would suspect them if they changed their game a lot. Im a lot more confident that Alison is town than Mac being town. I wouldnt blame you for a shot on Alison though.

Having skimmed their isos in MU, I think Alison could have been a bit more proactive in being solvy on the mechanics side. That said, I get the feeling they dont spend as much time posting as some others in this game, and may have just felt the mech posts they read were okay and didnt feel the need to post additional ones. I think they have looked at some and indicated general agreement that the ones I have been suggesting at various points seemed towny. Evil Alison could find an angle to push why some mech posts are nefarious and spin it to me being a deep wolf. They havent as far as I recall.

In the end its a feeling. I understand my continued townshield on Alison all game means that if you laser Alison, and they flip alien, I look awful so yeah. If you shoot Alison and then me, its more my fault than yours since I only have to work out the alignment of 5 players, but you have to do it for 6.

[protocultures]

re Carotenoid, I have found some mistakes in math/mech (1.8% example and I saved Epi, Epi and Carotenoid are cleared town). Both are advantageous mistakes to make as mafia. I decided to give them the benefit of doubt because I dont know for sure that Carotenoid is super math/mech person so dont assume they cant make mistakes. I mean, I made a math/mech error on day 0. Carotenoid pointed it out. I found that towny.

Their manuiscript notes on their mech solve. Its like super try hard to do as mafia. Its not just notes. The paper is folded and creased. It looks genuinely like it was in a pocket all day. It isnt neat. It doesnt look like it was ever intended for others to see. I accept the english over french in the notes. The other intepretation is they did the solve as mafia and used it as evidence of town - which would be pretty amusing. I cant follow the notes so this could very well be the case.

Like, I think the team is TSP/Mac probably.