The Syndicate

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:21 pm**

I am experiencing a momentary confidence boost. Consider:

There was a night killer (Pawn). Long Con protects from night kills.

There is a poisoner. Epignosis treats poison.

These align appropriately.

If Epignosis is innocent, it is much harder to find a team for nutella. It’d be just Wisp I think? I don’t think that’s a team. It wouldn’t clear nutella of being independent, but at least Wisp checked her.

That means sabie and Kitsu are just the only candidates. Include me if you want, but you’ll be wrong.

Tie up sabie and Kitsu. Sabie decides the tie. Or she doesn’t. Go from there.

This requires solving the host which I hate to do. But I don’t know what else we’re supposed to do at this point. If someone sees a hole speak loudly.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:46 pm**

Ok, I'll go along with that plan.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:46 pm**

[VOTE: sabie12] aubergine

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:47 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:21 pm I am experiencing a momentary confidence boost. Consider:

There was a night killer (Pawn). Long Con protects from night kills.

There is a poisoner. Epignosis treats poison.

These align appropriately.

If Epignosis is innocent, it is much harder to find a team for nutella. It’d be just Wisp I think? I don’t think that’s a team. It wouldn’t clear nutella of being independent, but at least Wisp checked her.

That means sabie and Kitsu are just the only candidates. Include me if you want, but you’ll be wrong.

Tie up sabie and Kitsu. Sabie decides the tie. Or she doesn’t. Go from there.

This requires solving the host which I hate to do. But I don’t know what else we’re supposed to do at this point. If someone sees a hole speak loudly.

There's 7 people though...

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:50 pm**

3-3-1

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:51 pm**

Note that, as I mentioned before, sabie’s role cannot be confirmed. It can only be disproven.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:59 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:51 pm Note that, as I mentioned before, sabie’s role cannot be confirmed. It can only be disproven.

Whose to say that extra one isn't going to just pile on and vote me at the last second?

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:01 pm**

sabie12 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:59 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:51 pm Note that, as I mentioned before, sabie’s role cannot be confirmed. It can only be disproven.
Whose to say that extra one isn't going to just pile on and vote me at the last second?

Kitsu ought to already be on you. Otherwise I don’t know why anyone else would do that.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:07 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:05 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:28 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:27 pm
sabie12 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:55 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:47 am In hindsight, I have entirely screwed up the town to mafia ratio in this game since I've given the entire town my unchoppableness. I think adding eight more wolves and a vigilante or two will set things right. Please stand by for new role pms.

Spoiler: show

I was just going to say it would be funny if jack created a game that was just all town. It would be like a monsters are due on maple street type deal. Jack is the only real mafia making us all turn on each other.

this “what if we’re all town” speculation is, in my experience, more likely to actually come from town
I like that take. Sabie town.
If there’s one LC post I like, it’s this one. Hally’s positive mark for sabie is on the frivolous side, and LC was content to support it anyway. sabie is a player the mafia may need to chop to win the game just given her lower volume. It’s a small thing but whatever there you go.

Do you need me chopped to win the game?

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:09 pm**

I just might.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:34 pm**

[mention]sabie12[/mention] do you think there is a mafia team?

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:40 pm**

Maybe they tried to kill Wisp last night and they failed because of his vest.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:43 pm**

I'm not sure why sabie is hesitating with this tiebreak idea.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:09 pm**

sabie12 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:19 pm It doesn't prove alignment. The more I look through kitsushels posts the more I see that she is capable of appearing to not know info and then later revealed she did. Meaning she is capable of lying and trying to make it look convincing, but is now looking for the liar... I think maybe I'll move my vote back to kitsu again for now.

[VOTE: kitsushel] aubergine

Ok, where did I say I didn’t know something and then turned around said I did? Other than alluding that I didn’t know what they Vig did night 2. Show me.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:10 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:43 pm I'm not sure why sabie is hesitating with this tiebreak idea.

Just saying if there's 7 people there's no guarantee I'm not just going to get chopped because someone will put a 4th vote on me. Unless I just tell you to vote elsewhere I guess. Is this your way of also proving your role?
Also, how am I hesitating? I mean like in your plan all I have to do is keep my vote on kitsu and break the tie. Everyone else also has to be on board and agree with you to do it.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:12 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:34 pm @sabie12 do you think there is a mafia team?

There is a killer that may or may not be on a team. I thought nutella was maybe that role I don't know if there are teammates.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:12 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:43 pm I'm not sure why sabie is hesitating with this tiebreak idea.

It’s fine, I’m expecting to go tonight. I reiterate again that I *will* flip as town and still think Epi is scum. Not like anyone has listened to anyone else’s parting words, lol.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:13 pm**

sabie12 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:10 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:43 pm I'm not sure why sabie is hesitating with this tiebreak idea.
Just saying if there's 7 people there's no guarantee I'm not just going to get chopped because someone will put a 4th vote on me. Unless I just tell you to vote elsewhere I guess. Is this your way of also proving your role?

An elegant idea, if he were voting in the majority four.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:17 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:51 pm Note that, as I mentioned before, sabie’s role cannot be confirmed. It can only be disproven.

Still can quantify it. If ties are randomized, then there’s still a 50/50 chance of it going in her favor.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:19 pm**

KitsuShel wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:09 pm
sabie12 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:19 pm It doesn't prove alignment. The more I look through kitsushels posts the more I see that she is capable of appearing to not know info and then later revealed she did. Meaning she is capable of lying and trying to make it look convincing, but is now looking for the liar... I think maybe I'll move my vote back to kitsu again for now.

[VOTE: kitsushel] aubergine
Ok, where did I say I didn’t know something and then turned around said I did? Other than alluding that I didn’t know what they Vig did night 2. Show me.

Your entire first page is pretending to not know anything about your role and speculating about the vig and jack daw and all that.

I still believe nutella could be the poisoner though. I don't see your role as being both but if it is that seems weird and overpowered.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:20 pm**

KitsuShel wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:17 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:51 pm Note that, as I mentioned before, sabie’s role cannot be confirmed. It can only be disproven.
Still can quantify it. If ties are randomized, then there’s still a 50/50 chance of it going in her favor.

I guess if I die or didn't make a decision the ties would end up being randomized.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:22 pm**

Meaning Jack's rule about ties applies if I was no longer in the game probably.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:27 pm**

Could Wisp just be an evil role checker?

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:27 pm**

Crazy conspiracy theory time but like what if jay were the poisoner and concocted this plan to take out me and kitsu at the same time. As in if he already poisoned me and knows I will pick kitsu in the tie then we're both gone and out of the way.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:29 pm**

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:27 pm Could Wisp just be an evil role checker?

What makes you say that?

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:32 pm**

sabie12 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:27 pm Crazy conspiracy theory time but like what if jay were the poisoner and concocted this plan to take out me and kitsu at the same time. As in if he already poisoned me and knows I will pick kitsu in the tie then we're both gone and out of the way.

That's not too crazy

I say avoid the tie just for that

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:58 pm**

sabie12 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:29 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:27 pm Could Wisp just be an evil role checker?
What makes you say that?

It would help explain why we are floundering on the Mafia-finding front.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:03 pm**

Looks like that it’s for me, it’s been a great game guys. Good luck! I’m heading off to bed.

I still don’t want to see any “Good game” posts, especially if there’s only one mafia left and the rest was just a blind and stubborn town.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:05 pm**

sorry im around
and no we still have one more hour

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:06 pm**

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:27 pm Could Wisp just be an evil role checker?

is this the hill we wanna die on 1 hour before EoD?

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:11 pm**

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:58 pm
sabie12 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:29 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:27 pm Could Wisp just be an evil role checker?
What makes you say that?
It would help explain why we are floundering on the Mafia-finding front.

I mean yeah jay is running under the assumption that all of wisps checks have for sure been accurate, which I don't know if that's true. I thought it was possible at least one of the checks was misled or misdirected in some way like a godfather or the redirection like when he and daisy checked you.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:12 pm**

I see no reason to go against the flavor of this game, if what Jagged says about realms is true
Kitsu thinking it was EoD, means nothing

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:14 pm**

Long Con is the only one of my checks that can't be truly confirmed honestly

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:19 pm**

Wisp wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:06 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:27 pm Could Wisp just be an evil role checker?
is this the hill we wanna die on 1 hour before EoD?

All the hills look to be a similar size. I could die on any of them.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:26 pm**

I have granted the entire game that Wisp’s checks may not be infallible. The problem is that he has been given information by the host, and there is quite literally no way whatsoever for a civilian to know when that information should be ignored. It’s wild-ass guessing.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:30 pm**

Put another way:

If there’s an evil doer among Wisp’s checks, they’ve done nothing to actually create an advantage in this game. They’re just riding on a game mechanic that civilians cannot reasonably be expected to solve.

If that’s you, dear reader, you didn’t earn it.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:32 pm**

I’ve considered that Wisp could just be a mafia role checker.

But there is no mafia. Unless they’ve just skipped kills on purpose repeatedly, another example of riding a mechanical advantage that civilians cannot feasibly match.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:33 pm**

Remember that Hally corroborated that Long Con was role card checked via their voyeur power.

So Wisp can definitely do what he says he can do. Can he ALSO poison? Hell if I know. I don’t tjink he seems bad.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:36 pm**

the inclusion of two different cops, in a game like this, couple with whoever? possibly being able to mess with checks
and I just dont claim here if I am a wolf, because it forces me to town side

if it is just bunch of evil 3p roles, then Kitsu is the correct lynch

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:37 pm**

That's why I suggested he's an evil rolechecker. Maybe it's him and nutella.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:37 pm**

Wisp wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:36 pm the inclusion of two different cops, in a game like this, couple with whoever? possibly being able to mess with checks
and I just dont claim here if I am a wolf, because it forces me to town side

if it is just bunch of evil 3p roles, then Kitsu is the correct lynch

What's wrong with "being forced to townside"?

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:38 pm**

no I can not also poison...
honestly I don't even know why I am a cop, my flavor doesn't really match it

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:39 pm**

its not even just that, like I'd have to argue stupid reasons why I'm not dead yet
then Hally had to go and give me a vest, so now its just wine all over, because its a bitch for any evils to kill me

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:43 pm**

Way back when Wisp checked Long Con, he seemed almost annoyed to concede that LC was no longer an appropriate chop option -- like he had to put a strong read behind him and move on from it.

If he is anything other than a civilian, I would expect he'd benefit from a LC chop. So I'm not sure why he'd out it, or even soft claim it the way he did before Hally revealed their voyeur.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:43 pm**

Wisp wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:58 pm @Long Con
Just take my town read you bastard

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:51 pm**

sabie12 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:27 pm Crazy conspiracy theory time but like what if jay were the poisoner and concocted this plan to take out me and kitsu at the same time. As in if he already poisoned me and knows I will pick kitsu in the tie then we're both gone and out of the way.

This doesn't make sense. You don't need to be tied for me to pull this maneuver if that's what I am doing.

Kitsu could be chopped 6-1 and you'd still die of poison in that scenario. The tie is irrelevant to it.

I am bothered that you are resisting this idea. It should be a pretty easy call for you compared to just about any other player.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:52 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:51 pm
sabie12 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:27 pm Crazy conspiracy theory time but like what if jay were the poisoner and concocted this plan to take out me and kitsu at the same time. As in if he already poisoned me and knows I will pick kitsu in the tie then we're both gone and out of the way.
This doesn't make sense. You don't need to be tied for me to pull this maneuver if that's what I am doing.

Kitsu could be chopped 6-1 and you'd still die of poison in that scenario. The tie is irrelevant to it.

I am bothered that you are resisting this idea. It should be a pretty easy call for you compared to just about any other player.

Well you have to convince someone to move thier vote somewhere random

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:54 pm**

sabie12 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:52 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:51 pm
sabie12 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:27 pm Crazy conspiracy theory time but like what if jay were the poisoner and concocted this plan to take out me and kitsu at the same time. As in if he already poisoned me and knows I will pick kitsu in the tie then we're both gone and out of the way.
This doesn't make sense. You don't need to be tied for me to pull this maneuver if that's what I am doing.

Kitsu could be chopped 6-1 and you'd still die of poison in that scenario. The tie is irrelevant to it.

I am bothered that you are resisting this idea. It should be a pretty easy call for you compared to just about any other player.
Well you have to convince someone to move thier vote somewhere random

You could move your own vote and still control the tie.

If someone just jumps over to you at the last second, that player is outed. If it's somehow an instant-win mafia-aligned move, then the game is so hopelessly bastardized from the start that I cannot bring myself to even care. I raise this idea entirely on the basis of a there's-no-mafia world view.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:57 pm**

When I read Jack's flavor, I can't even see clear evidence that the blonde man is evil. The blonde man has only been indicated as killing people in the flavor for players who have been chopped. The blonde man opened portals of swords or whatever for Pawn and Tony etc.

The only clear evil I can see is a poisoner, whoever the hell that's supposed to be.

Posted: **Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:58 pm**

[mention]Wisp[/mention] how about you move to make it 3-3-1

[mention]sabie12[/mention] make sure to refresh often in case of overlapping vote moves.

two minutes let

The Syndicate

Jack Attack Mafia (Day 5)

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