Interactive reads, under the umbrella
of the deceased mafioso nutella.
What will I find, what clues exist?
If this doesn't work, I will be pissed.
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:22 pm
I feel kinda too lazy to try very hard with the verse
I'll probably give up cause it'll start making my posts worse
I don't follow what Russti said about role claims
I don't think the same role would go to two names.
A Day 0 comment about Russtifinko's view on role claims. Russ hasn't played much recently, so has a different take on claiming than most of our current regulars. This post doesn't offer any judgment, so I can't say too much about nutella's handling of russ here.
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:28 pm
I'll try not to lynch you this time sig
I feel bad about last time, regret is big
And I get that you signed up to post less,
so adding the rhymes in is unwanted stress.
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:30 pm
I aint lynching sig on day (1)
twice in a row, that's no fun
I'd rather choose someone who seems too eager
to do so despite the motive being so meager
Sig is wicked departed now, but nutella's first stance was opposition to early suspicion against him. This may bode well for the people who opposed sig early on.
nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 1:30 am
In post number three
I will [VOTE: MP] aubergine
This ain't the dog pee
I think I'd see
People like MP, for instance, who she votes for here. M Plus 7 +1
nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 12:24 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 3:05 am
Hey fuckers it's Power Rankings Time
The Power & The Passion - Top 5!
1.
Russtifinko - Putting forth some thinking activities in an environment that is probably not super chillax for scum. Liking ya boy.
2.
TonyStarkPrime - Really good looks for the boy. Powers to the top of the rankings on the back of some really willing and hectic town pings and good effort.
3.
Sig - I like the fire and the penache stirring from within.
4.
Sloonei - A bit of an awkward start but I give him points for considering threadstate so early on. I'll give him a mini pass because a post cap game does make sense to be something bothersome to him. Don't like his FPS town reads though. I see no reason to town read Epi or MP, let alone both of them. Would love an explanation.
5.
Nutella - I have a sense that she is towntella but she doesn't really deserve the read. I don't like that she went for the sig town read. I enjoyed the pressure we were putting on him. But she's obsessed with disrupting earnest scum hunting in the early game for some reason as a matter of course so it's on town meta for her to do this.
Everyone Else
6.
Turnip Head - I have this sort of inverse read on TH right now where I think he's kind of taking the piss a bit too much to be scum.
7.
Epignosis - Really enjoyed him slapping M Plus 7 across the face with a wet fish but he doesn't care one iota about the roof. He's burning through posts, taking the piss mostly.
8.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - He hasn't posted out of rhyme yet at all and his reads in rhyme have been pretty borderline.
9.
M Plus 7 - Pretty bad so far. The only town ping I've had was him saying fuck. But MP is the sort of wolf player who fakes getting upset when he's accused (or perhaps doesn't need to fake it).
10.
dunya - What is you doing fam? I don't like the fact that you've left zero impression on me.
T11.
G-Man +
Speedchuck - They have made one off topic post each in a game that I would expect the scum to have action paralysis in.
This is good this is good this is good shit
This is my fourth post and I love it
To respond to Sloonei no I don't care
MP feels different here, I swear
Wholesale support for Mac's day 1 reads. It's probably more accurate to read this as (phony) support of the effort from MacDougall, but if we mine it for more clues, we get support of the following list of suspects: Turnip Head,
Epignosis,
Nanook, MP, dunya, and G-man. I do not think that all of them need to be town, but nutella might be more resistant (at least, less openly supportive) if the list was threatening to her or her team.
nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 1:48 pm
Fifth post and now I think MP looks better
His last few posts fit his town meta to the letter
But I have some questions about that rainbow
How did Nanook and Turnip earn spots in a green row?
MP is looking better in nutella's eyes, but he's not without scrutiny. Nanook and Turnip are getting attention from nutella now. Her team just killed nanook last night, it would seem. I think MP continues to look good here. Not enough data on TH.
nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 2:08 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 2:04 pm
post #3 btw
[VOTE:
nutella] aubergine
didn't address my sig point, i feel ignored. *pout*
Sorry yeah I kind of missed that
It's just that lynching sig is old hat
And I don't see any reason to jump on him early
I thought people doing so were unreasonable surely
This vote from dunya doesn't have quite enough sticking power to be a slam dunk, but the exchange still has enough that I like: I think if the ladies are teammates then it's less likely that they'd have this sort of in-thread miscommunication for nutella to ignore a point raised against her by teammate-dunya so early on, and the response from nutella appears a bit sheepish, which would be another indication of non-alignment. Good look for dunya.
nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:23 pm
dunya seems her typical self
but she's not firmly on my town shelf
because I know she can be wily scum
but she's not under my voting thumb
Blanket dunya suspicion. I'm more inclined to believe that this post doesn't exist between partners, but that is also not a slam dunk.
nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:40 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:34 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:23 pm
dunya seems her typical self
but she's not firmly on my town shelf
because I know she can be wily scum
but she's not under my voting thumb
dunya has 11 posts and Day 1 is halfway over.
I do not understand how you can say she seems like she's "dunya as usual."
This is a shit take.
[VOTE:
nutella] aubergine
what? Why not? She's criticizing things
in her typical dunya way of questionings.
I don't see what you're seeing at all
But your viewpoint is not my call
She gets a bit defensive when epi calls her out on that dunya read. This may be a slightly worse look for dunya if we consider that nutella was nervous for her own sake and for the sake of her phony teammate read at this moment. But I think it's enough to say that nutella was just defending her own read, and perhaps the reason she felt compelled to give dunya a town read so early is because she was afraid of her.
I'll also note that this response reminds me a tiny bit of nutella's initial response to dunya's vote, though that one was a little more subdued. My interpretation of each of those posts has been favorable for dunya, but I see room for alternative theories in all of them. I'd like to hear from others on these posts.
nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:23 pm
Turnip Head wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:14 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:06 pm
anyone who still gives weight to my number of posts as a genuine reason to scum read can kindly kiss my backside.
had enough of that meta and spent the last games changing it. dunya posting 200 posts on day 1 is dead. over. deal with it. and especially on a 25 post limit game.
my read on mp is tone-based. he seems genuine. even though he has mostly been on the defence, because people were hitting him from all sides, his defences are all sincere and coming from a place of truth, i feel. and with that, hes still took the time to game solve and keep up. Scum mp will be more focused on defence and getting out of people's dog piles. i am an intuition-based player, and i can see town behind MP posts.
i am however beginning to feel less certain of a town sloonei here.
I dunno how to read russ, and i will at some point quote his massive post when I'm not on my phone and reply.
But that's not what I did fam
I was talking about the mindset ham
Of rationing your posts to get near the quota lamb
And anyways your overzealous defense of MP makes me skeptical too damn
I don't understand this and I need someone to vote for other than MP so
[VOTE:
th] aubergine I don't buy your reasoning for suspecting dunya
This would be some harsh bussing if TH and nutella are teammates. Also in hindsight this post should have been a red flag ("I need someone to vote for other than MP" is yucky language). A little bit of Day 1 distancing is certainly in nutella's playbook and the vote feels kind of passive and arbitrary, which may be a sign that she didn't mean for it to stick. I'll be interested in examining Turnip Head's reaction on the other side of this exchange when I get there.
nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:45 pm
Wait Speed is in this game?
Wait Tony is in this game?
Hot take: one of these two is bad.
nutella wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 2:58 pm
I'm not inspired by TH's responses to Mac. I get that TH has been "misunderstood" as a townie before but I don't get nearly the same sense from them this game that I often do. Their reads feel much more.. idk, manufactured somehow. maybe I'm just not following their godlike intuitive thought processes, but I feel so strongly that they're wrong about Mac that I'm not inclined to believe it's a real read.
Still inconclusive on TH. I'll have to dig further into this garden when I'm done with the current exercise (or sometime later, because I'm supposed to be editing my thesis right now).
nutella wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 3:01 pm
I am concerned that Nanook seems to have disappeared. Hopefully we'll see more from him in the last few hours but I haven't got any particular townie feeling from his posts so far.
(18)
The above TH suspicion is immediately followed up with a jab at nanook, who we now know to be town. Maybe nutella is trying to pivot away from her teammate. Maybe she's reaching out in all directions for civilian mislynches. We're getting towards the end of Day 1 here, where Mac and sig were the primary wagons. There's no real need for nutella to divert momentum away from either of those. It's more likely she's just trying to appear proactive and/or setting up things for later here.
nutella wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 5:47 pm
I would vote Tony if that was on the table. I have zero reason to town read him; he's made so little impression that I kept forgetting he was even a player.
(23)
This post was a red flag in the moment. The poll was close enough that a vote for Tony here would have made him theoretically viable. nutella spoke as if that wasn't the case and I gave her shit for it, at which point she placed a vote on Tony. Nothing materialized from it, we lynched sig, and tony was hardly a suspect on Day 2. Bad look for Tony/Jack (Don't worry, Jack. If we lynch you in this game it will be a Tony lynch. You're safe).
nutella wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 2:45 pm
Dragon D. Luffy town
dunya town
Epignosis scum
G-Man town
M Plus 7 town
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME scum
Russtifinko town
sig town
Sloonei town
speedchuck scum
TonyStarkPrime scum
Turnip Head scum
GTH reads, neat. Epi, nanook, speedchuck, and tony are bad. I gave tony some credit for pushing Epi during the night when he was about to die. We see nutella doing the same thing here. That makes me lose a bit of confidence in my tony town read.
I'll restate my hot take from before: one of tony or speedchuck is bad.
nutella wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 6:33 pm
I think I need to re-skim a bit
with the new knowledge that Epi was legit.
I remember he prodded both dunya and me
and then said he wouldn't lynch either, actually.
I don't know why this observation exists, but dunya's name is in it.
nutella wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 7:21 pm
Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 7:16 pm
I'll roleclaim. I'm Leaky and I have a semi-useful role that requires me to have good instincts, so I'm not all that hopeful about that, but I'm town.
any reason you chose to claim??
Nanook's calling out sig by name
Don't know why you'd just randomly out
when not in direct danger, what's that about
(2)
There's nothing that I can really latch onto here, at least not by just looking at nutella's side of things, but these interactions with TH are distinctly peculiar.
nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:20 pm
wow this game is frustrating because everyone is talking past each other lol. DDL's hypothesis of nanook's thing makes a lot of sense to me, I don't get why TH is pushing back on it so much because I think Nanook is telling the truth but it could be something kind of ambiguous. Sig is just being dumb now about the MP thing, multiple people explained that he was town and then replaced and he just ignored that lol. And his refusal to claim in the face of nanook's request makes me think it's more likely nanook's info is good so
[VOTE:
sig] aubergine for now.
Russti if you just delete the "@" symbol in the post editor the annoying thing goes away. It's a dumb bug but that at least makes it stop.
I don't see the case on G-Man at all. He feels like normal G-Man to me.
Names galore. DDL is saying something that makes sense, cool. TH is pushing nanook on a faulty premise, cool. Sig is bad and gets a vote, the his push on MP is fundamentally flawed, cool. She "doesn't see the case on G-man at all", very cool. The exchange that convinced me nutella was bad stemmed from that last comment. I'm not quite sure what it means for Da G. As dunya observes, the stance nutella eventually takes is very bold in support of G-man, but that was more a product of the back-and-forth between the two of us than a direct push on G-man. I made her talk about it, and she was committed to casting shade on me. I believe this post here marks her first mention of G-man in the game. I also don't think she'd acknowledged DDL beforehand. She uses his theory in part to prop up her sig vote here, for whatever that's worth.
nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:41 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:30 pm
I don't remember which game it was, but I think there was an instance where town Sig lost a game on purpose to make a point about being against claiming. Or maybe it was someone else (this happens a lot in the other forum I play in). Correct me if I'm wrong.
If this is true it makes me paranoid, though. There is a good chance nanook is telling the truth but his info isn't really conclusive, and Sig is gonna self destruct to make a point anyway.
Notably Nanook also faked a red peek in a recent game (the baseball one), though that person happened to be indeed mafia
But from what he's said here I believe he's not lying this time and he is admitting that his info might not be 100% reliable. But yeah you make a point that goes against Nanook's plan to policy-lynch sig for refusing to claim.
This doesn't look like a teammate interaction. DDL looks to be authentically contradicting nutella's desired angle and nutella gives a tentative concession without moving her vote. If they're teammates nutella can ignore it or DDL just doesn't make the original post.
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 7:37 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:44 pm
I can totally see bad nutella.
She's just... not very around.
Like compare to last game where she was extremely around. Saying things. Posting hot takes. Etc.
Sorry I have been very distracted by other things so I haven't really gotten my head in this game. I don't have super hot takes, I have some townreads and a lot of people who haven't made much of an impression. I kinda think Sloonei is scum for being so focused on his garbage Gman case over everything else, but I've gone back and forth on him.
I think it's likely one of you and TH is bad based on this recent exchange.
"One of TH or DDL is bad shrug2" My money's on TH right now.
The G-man thang will be contained in a single spoiler:
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:08 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:07 pm
What is everyone's read on G-man?
town
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 7:39 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:51 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:34 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:10 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:08 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:07 pm
What is everyone's read on G-man?
town
Why?
Like I said, he just feels like regular ol G-Man to me. I don't understand/agree with the case.
You said this before I posted my case.
Your case did nothing for me, you just pointed out some things in his posts that seemed typical from him imo. I don't see the problems you see, I see Gman's way of processing the game.
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 7:45 pm
I need to look back at that awful G mislynch in GOC and see how much scum!Sloonei contributed to it and how that compares to his push here. I'm just getting a lil deja vu and I think G tends to be misread repeatedly for consistent reasons.
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 pm
I said I didn't see the case on him as in I didn't get the reasons people suspected him, since I hadn't seen anything that struck me as atypical for town Gman. You posted "reasons" which were just a list of some details from his posts. I found it uninteresting and uncompelling.
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:02 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 7:57 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 pm
I said I didn't see the case on him as in I didn't get the reasons people suspected him, since I hadn't seen anything that struck me as atypical for town Gman. You posted "reasons" which were just a list of some details from his posts. I found it uninteresting and uncompelling.
... what else is a case supposed to be? What would have made it more compelling?
This is not feisty or spicy nutella.
You're Sloonei. You know what a case is. Come on.
Why are any of G-Man's posts suspicious? What makes them feel outside his normal town meta? I don't recall anything remotely persuasive about this from your post. I looked at the stuff you quoted and thought "yeah, nah, nothing wrong with that."
Also this is a garbage line of questioning. This is Fake Questioning Sloonei. Like I saw in GOC. I thought I felt it again early this game, then I cooled down on you for a while but the feeling is back in full force. You're full of shit.
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:48 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:39 pm
Of course G-man could be town. Of course people sometimes express uncertainty in their reads, Day 1 or otherwise. And the paranoia about giving the mafia team guidance in their kill selection has been prevalent on the Syndicate for as long as I’ve been here. But the purpose of making a case and playing this game is to consider the alternatives to that.
Town G-man can be humble. He’ll tell us when he’s behind or not sure what to think of things or just struggling with the game in general. His posts here haven’t had that feel. His posts here strike me as being instilled with inflated confidence, as though he doesn’t want to be called out on exactly those other things. The “built-in concessions” I refer to in his first reads list aren’t the typical “hedging” remarks I’d expect. Rather “MP is doing this, which could mean X or Y” it’s “I have an old bias...”, which signals to me that he is aware the read exists on a flimsy premise,
not that he is doubting himself.
That is just one point in my G-man case. I’m typing it all out here not out of investment in the case itself, but to frame my newer and bigger suspicion against nutella. I’ve been on the receiving end of her tinfoil suspicions in just about every game we’ve played together for at least the last year. I know what that’s like. I also have a sense of what it looks like when she is actively trying to figure things out— to figure me out. It comes with an air of believing that I am full of shit, but a willingness to listen anyway. Throughout this exchange she has demonstrated an unwillingness to engage: the entire above spiel about G-man is an elaboration on the case that I already presented earlier. It is absolutely not air tight, but it’s also not far out of bounds for what I usually post, particularly on Days 1 or 2. For nutella to suggest that it’s not even a case at all, but something lesser, and to immediately pivot to calling me fake, without demonstrating any of the usual visible inner turmoil over that read, just reads like one conspicuously counterfeit jar of hazelnut spread.
Nah. I am still trying to figure stuff out, like I've said I've gone back and forth on you. It's just that I've decided G-Man is town and nothing you said convinced me to consider otherwise. Funnily enough, your second paragraph here is the first thing that has actually given me pause. I can potentially see where you are coming from there. That angle was not present at all in your earlier case though. This could easily be a retroactive addition to inflate the depth of your "case", or it could be legitimate insight. Show me that this additional level of depth was present in your read earlier, and maybe I'll believe you.
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:55 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 4:00 pm
G-man is bad, I say.
G-Man wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 2:57 pm
Patching together a reads list yields this:
GOOD VIBES
-Russ: His good on the fake-claim cover roles makes me feel good. A baddie would have clarified with the host.
-Dunya: I like her spunk. She's more assertive and direct than I would suspect a baddie to be.
-Epi: He makes good counter-punches, but how many times have I been duped into civ reading him in the past?
TBD (I need to ISO these for a stronger read)
-DDL
-sig
-Sloonei
-Speed
-Tony
-TH
BAD VIBES
-MP: This might be old bias due to his high-volume style of play. It's a soft ping, so don't take it the wrong way.
-Nutella: Equal parts old bias and not feeling much of anything despite the volume of her ISO.
-Mac: He keeps coming back to low-hanging fruit. Lazy for a civvie to do; wise for a baddie. It's never lost its appeal. I am low-hanging fruit, I realize this, so my judgement may be a tad harsh.
-Nanook: Maybe it's a lack of familiarity, but something in his play rubs me the wrong way. Rhyme scheme in moderation and play the game, friendo.
All four of his "BAD" reads come with built-in concessions. I wouldn't quite call it hedging or "wishywashy"; instead G is admitting the flaw in all of his reads ("old bias" x2, "may be a tad harsh", "Maybe it's lack of familiarity"). The effect suggests a player who is tentative because he knows his reads are wrong, as opposed to a player who is keeping an open mind.
Okay, you do have the "knows his reads are wrong" part here. I guess I just glossed over that because I disagreed, I thought his hedges were pretty natural. Looking again I can understand why you saw what you saw. I think I still disagree.
The same thing comes out when he elaborates on his nanook read:
G-Man wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 4:18 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 3:23 pm
G-Man:
He needs more time to post. He doesn't have much, but I will say this:
-Not a fan of his insistence on rhyming. Yes, it’s cheeky and fun but even I won’t encourage everyone to post solely in rhymes. Not a fan of his repetition of it. (-1)
...is strange coming from a guy who insists on practicing strange and quirky gimmicks all the time (his posts all start with a P, this time, by the way).
It's doubtful to me that someone of G-Man's quirky caliber would characterize posting in rhymes as something bad or inscrutable. We understand song lyrics just fine (well, most. We have Yes and Led Zeppelin...)
I would lynch G-Man today.
Peculiar? Yes. Hypocritical? Perhaps. In this game, there is a limit to how beneficial the rhymes are. You can fit them in here and there between prose as well. Once the benefit is over, sticking with the rhymes just impairs communication. I think it’s his apparent stubbornness to abstain from prose more so than the use of rhyme. My play experience with him is quite limited.
If he’s quirky like me, then it might make sense. I lack that context. I’m voting for Nanook now so I have a vote on the board as I start ISOing the people I have little to no read on.
This post also feels as though it has a sort of falsely inflated confidence, like he is overcompensating when pushed on a read that is weak.
This point I don't get at all. I don't see anything that can remotely translate to "inflated confidence" in the highlighted portion. I don't understand how this quote is relevant to your case at all. It looks like you pulled something he said at random and decided it demonstrated "falsely inflated confidence" to... well, inflate your case. Now this part makes me think again that you're talking out of your ass.
Like I said before, this became less about G-man and more about me, man. I'm not swayed all that much by the volume of content where nutella appears to be defending G-man, as that was mostly my doing. Me me me, I'm so great. nutella's initial position was "I don't see the case on G-Man at all. He feels like normal G-Man to me." That is a harmless thing to say at that stage even if G-man is her partner. He's not in immediate danger, and this is a very quick and easy way to bat that suspicion away and move onto something else. It's a light touch, specifically designed not to get too deep into the case. But I'm too narcissistic to let that slip by when I put some work into presenting an argument against G-man, so I pestered nutella until she talked about it. Her default stance was "I don't see the case" and thus Sloonei's insistence on the case became oppositional to her, and that turned into me being fake.
I actually might be inclined to say that the exchange is a bad look for G-man, or I can at least make that argument. Whether or not I believe in it is a different matter. But it goes like this: nutella did not want to talk about G-man, thus her initial responses were all non-receptive to the case I was making. She was not disagreeing with me or engaging on a level that would prompt direct discussion of G-man himself: she was outright ignoring any parts of the argument which related to G-man. When that eventually became impossible she sheepishly agreed to one part but turned immediately to a more minor issue and harped on that as a point of contention. Then the exchange ended.
That does not need to be the case and it's entirely possible G-man is an innocent bystander caught in the crossfire.
--------------------------------------------
SUMMARY: "One of tony/jack or speedchuck is bad" has been my hot take throughout and I'm interested in pursuing that.
Turnip Head has the most head-scratchability in here, but this was a one-sided view of that potential pairing and there was absolutely nothing conclusive.
The exchange between nutella and I last night was tethered to G-man, but I'm unsure how relevant he really was to the progression. He remains a viable suspect to begin the day, but I would not take that to the bank. I think I'll plop a vote on him anyway since that's where my heart currently lies and linkitis tells me that jack just received a vote and he'd be my second choice.
Folks like DDL and dunya were incidentally present, but in such a way that I lean in their favor. I'm interested in hearing what others think of those early interactions between nutella and dunya.
I think MP looks alright early on.
this is how i play. my strategy is forming as many town reads as i can. it's the most effective way to hunt for scum, because paranoia makes everyone look scummy, even genuine townies. when i can't find town in someone, then you worry.