The Syndicate

I’m willing to take the «Jack is scum because he hasn’t diagnosed Nutella yet» argument pretty seriously.

I'd assume if option 2 were chosen and the scum team is obviously scum they would be provided with fake claims

112 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:48 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:23 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:19 am I think your argument can be boiled down to “Option 2 seems useless but at least pro-town” which is probably wrong on at least one side
I mean, suppose Donald Trump is mafia. Hard to say forcing someone to do a Donald Trump impression isn't protown.

It's just the implication that if the mafia was like Trump, VInce McMahon, Kelly Loeffler, etc, that option would be too good so things aren't that easy.

Idk. There should be some sort of theme to the scum team, I'd imagine.
I don't think we should assume affiliations are tied to roleplaying in any way. That's a bad way to run an open set-up game.

This is probably wrong too

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:23 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:19 am I think your argument can be boiled down to “Option 2 seems useless but at least pro-town” which is probably wrong on at least one side
I mean, suppose Donald Trump is mafia. Hard to say forcing someone to do a Donald Trump impression isn't protown.

It's just the implication that if the mafia was like Trump, VInce McMahon, Kelly Loeffler, etc, that option would be too good so things aren't that easy.

Idk. There should be some sort of theme to the scum team, I'd imagine.

that's not the scum team

I think your argument can be boiled down to “Option 2 seems useless but at least pro-town” which is probably wrong on at least one side

ThT wasn’t cleR

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:46 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:08 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:57 pm Option 3 is also pro scum. No hot potato allowed if you have death tunneled townie and you realize it. Stale wagons? Too bad.

Option 2 kinda tells us theme isn’t that big of an alignment indicator because it seems broken under certain setups. It’s still at least protown.
I disagree with your logic on option two.
Which bit?

I think there are good odds that it doesn’t break the game, but given the general town slant in the powers (I actually think 3 is good but then I hate CFDs) I’m hesitant to vote for something that isn’t as clearly townie. I also don’t think its existence means that theme isn’t a good indicator.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:57 pm Option 3 is also pro scum. No hot potato allowed if you have death tunneled townie and you realize it. Stale wagons? Too bad.

Option 2 kinda tells us theme isn’t that big of an alignment indicator because it seems broken under certain setups. It’s still at least protown.

I disagree with your logic on option two.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:32 pm Secret lynches are pro scum.

second lynches are pro town. With decent organization it’s better for town

almost switched to MR for the fun of it but by golly is that a terrible plan

bringing up a case on Juliets out of nowhere and dropping it equally quickly for another

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:33 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:01 pm I don’t catch your drift. Why is it anti-town to have my vote on someone who I think is suspicious? what of that idea is anti-town
why is ddl suspicious to you he ain't done nothin

a post like this when two posts later he says that Juliets is scum for asking about a day 1 vote for instance

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:40 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:26 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:03 pm @TonyStarkPrime talk to me about Speedchuck. You have a vote on them right now.
He's felt disengenuous to me
This is probably my least favorite Tony post just reading the ISO real fast. Can you expand on this, Tony?

I don't remember what the circumstances were. I can go back and check if you want.

We have more time than I thought we did. I have class so I won’t be around anyways but I’ll try to check in at EOD

Speed voicing regret.

I'll vote for Sig over Nanook. Weird to vote for Sig on the case "he hasn't said anything crazy yet" and I know that's the kind of reputation that's really annoying to shake, but there's nothing else to be done.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:21 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:56 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:46 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:08 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:55 pm
Spoiler: show
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:46 pm Here's where I'm at

Long Con
Master Radishes
112
Hyena
juliets
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
sig
Jackofhearts2005
speedchuck
Poison Chan
Dragon D. Luffy
DrWilgy
TonyStarkPrime
M Plus 7

Damn I forgot Wilgy was even in the game, lol. Also had a hard time placing Jack as he hasn't said much of substance yet. Keeping an eye out for him.

[VOTE: M Plus 7] aubergine I feel more secure in this than in a Tony vote atm.
This plus the discussion of the inactive slot threw me off. Sorta a plinko read on M+7 and I'm not used to Nutella being more philosophical on strategy.
Hey Tony, what do you mean by this?
I was wondering the same thing. What is that referring to? Also why do you think my MP read was "plinko" (another garbage term lol)
nutella: MP is scum
nutella: TSP is more scum
Nutella with NO posts in between from TSP or MP: MP is more scum
nutella now: MP probably not scum

That last progression threw me off. Maybe it's just town changing their mind I suppose, but it felt like you felt that TSP suspicion had worn its course and now you had a better target
My vote's still on him, at the moment. I don't suspect him as strongly anymore. I also don't really suspect anyone else very much. Gotta vote somewhere.

I specifically did become less suspicious of you, yes, partially due to that thing about the flavor/alignment stuff

that’s fair. I wasn’t considering that as a valid reason since it feels cheap to me and I wasn’t around for discussion on it, but it is a thread stimulus that could produce that read

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:46 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:08 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:55 pm
Spoiler: show
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:46 pm Here's where I'm at

Long Con
Master Radishes
112
Hyena
juliets
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
sig
Jackofhearts2005
speedchuck
Poison Chan
Dragon D. Luffy
DrWilgy
TonyStarkPrime
M Plus 7

Damn I forgot Wilgy was even in the game, lol. Also had a hard time placing Jack as he hasn't said much of substance yet. Keeping an eye out for him.

[VOTE: M Plus 7] aubergine I feel more secure in this than in a Tony vote atm.
This plus the discussion of the inactive slot threw me off. Sorta a plinko read on M+7 and I'm not used to Nutella being more philosophical on strategy.
Hey Tony, what do you mean by this?
I was wondering the same thing. What is that referring to? Also why do you think my MP read was "plinko" (another garbage term lol)

nutella: MP is scum
nutella: TSP is more scum
Nutella with NO posts in between from TSP or MP: MP is more scum
nutella now: MP probably not scum

That last progression threw me off. Maybe it's just town changing their mind I suppose, but it felt like you felt that TSP suspicion had worn its course and now you had a better target

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:12 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:05 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:54 pm Tony saying he thought Alex Jones would be town read as a not-scum thing to say imo, especially since it came after me and nutella said the opposite
I agree.
I agree as well.

I can't speak to this argument cause obvious bias but the uniform agreement bugs me

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:08 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:55 pm
Spoiler: show
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:46 pm Here's where I'm at

Long Con
Master Radishes
112
Hyena
juliets
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
sig
Jackofhearts2005
speedchuck
Poison Chan
Dragon D. Luffy
DrWilgy
TonyStarkPrime
M Plus 7

Damn I forgot Wilgy was even in the game, lol. Also had a hard time placing Jack as he hasn't said much of substance yet. Keeping an eye out for him.

[VOTE: M Plus 7] aubergine I feel more secure in this than in a Tony vote atm.
This plus the discussion of the inactive slot threw me off. Sorta a plinko read on M+7 and I'm not used to Nutella being more philosophical on strategy.
Hey Tony, what do you mean by this?

Nutella spent over a page discussing the perennial topic of the logic of an inactive lynch. It's an old favorite and I've sort of developed a general understanding of the arguments of different people. I'm not familiar with her generally expressing a view on it -- we've only played maybe half a dozen games, so I have a limited data set -- and so her focus on it here struck me as odd.

sig wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:08 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:05 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:54 pm Tony saying he thought Alex Jones would be town read as a not-scum thing to say imo, especially since it came after me and nutella said the opposite
I agree.
It seems NAI at a glance, but I guess you could argue if he's town he may be basing it off of his own role. However, if that's the case wouldn't that make Nutella/Nanook people to look into?

I was taking it to mean that the "anti-isolation" and "pro-isolation" flavors are both found in town. Which makes sense.

112 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:16 pm MR sitting on Tony the whole round looks bad on him, like he can't pick anyone else who warrants a vote on them.

is this a serious take

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:58 pm Now it's time for you people to explain why everyone and their dog is townreading Radishes because I don't see it.

Alternatively, let's lynch him.

In general I'm town reading DDL for going against quo on the page, but the phrasing seems ___stilted___ and repetitive -- forced in a sense (the same "I don't see it" idea). I'm not one of those micro-post analysts but it throws me off.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:55 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:18 pm I’m never lynching MP7 D1 for fear of his wolf game.

Does he even have a good wolf game? I think I’ve only seen him rand town.
I honestly think the difference between my games is pretty clear by D3.

Agenda? Faked dogpee? I'm scum.

No agenda? I'm probably more often wrong? I'm town.

Easy.

There are a lot of players that read this way. I get deciphered on day 4, I always have Jack on day 3, etc. Eventually, you reach a critical mass of those players and have to start picking up on things earlier.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:46 pm Here's where I'm at

Long Con
Master Radishes
112
Hyena
juliets
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
sig
Jackofhearts2005
speedchuck
Poison Chan
Dragon D. Luffy
DrWilgy
TonyStarkPrime
M Plus 7

Damn I forgot Wilgy was even in the game, lol. Also had a hard time placing Jack as he hasn't said much of substance yet. Keeping an eye out for him.

[VOTE: M Plus 7] aubergine I feel more secure in this than in a Tony vote atm.

This plus the discussion of the inactive slot threw me off. Sorta a plinko read on M+7 and I'm not used to Nutella being more philosophical on strategy.

why is there no one suspicious with votes what happened from page 7 to page 13

112 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:32 am [VOTE: Dragon D. Luffy] aubergine

I think his exhaustion is more likely due to rolling mafia than anything else. He says he's not as interested and doesn't know why he signed up, which in my experience is more of a wolf tell than a town one.

Is this broadly true?

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:21 am Nanook, Tony, nutella, based on your own role card, what alignment do you think Alex Jones would have?

town

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:38 pm I was gonna say Alex Jones and the description was just that he's a conspiracy theorist? His first several posts were conspiracy focused

Alex Jones was my guess as well. But the turn the animals thing was a bit on the nose AND he had the rhetoric down

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:25 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:24 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:31 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:30 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:27 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:26 pm mmm Sarah Palin?
I wasn't into politics back in 2008 so I don't really get it.
I was guessing at your character.
. . . I just found out my flavor character is a real person.

Speed, you were flavoring earlier. What were you flavoring on if you didn't know your character was a real person?
presumably there was some sort of description

I mean obviously.
(I'm playing in two games over on the realms right now so I'm switching back to character analysis mode)

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:03 pm @TonyStarkPrime talk to me about Speedchuck. You have a vote on them right now.

He's felt disengenuous to me

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:23 pm Sig wouldn’t know AI if it slapped him in the face and called him Asimov

that's pretty good

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:31 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:30 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:27 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:26 pm mmm Sarah Palin?
I wasn't into politics back in 2008 so I don't really get it.
I was guessing at your character.
. . . I just found out my flavor character is a real person.

Speed, you were flavoring earlier. What were you flavoring on if you didn't know your character was a real person?

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] [mention]Poison Chan[/mention]
come out and play

112 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:48 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:43 pm Spew is one of those things that Serious Mafia Players talk about as if it’s meaningful.

It isn’t.
Woah I'm going to have to get serious and maybe disagree with you here. It has its time and place.

Most tools in mafia have their time and place. Overapplication leads to stale (and often losing) games.

112 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:36 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:28 pm Okay someone just define “spew” please
When someone is wolfing and is worried that they're caught (or has been caught) and starts throwing out information.

Presumably bad information?
So if someone is spewing themself and X as w/w does that mean they’re pretending they’re w/w with X or they’re avoiding that impression?

I’ve had a working definition for a while but I feel like it’s bad

Okay someone just define “spew” please

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:41 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:49 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:44 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:40 pm I was hoping it would be a meme or a trap, but if it’s serious then, like...idk dude, that’s just how Jules plays.
Yeah this concerns me about speed a bit tbh. I often incorrectly suspect him so I want to be careful about this, but it doesn't seem like him to state such a strong suspicion with quotes and everything this early in the game.
I don’t really feel like I know his game as either alignment tbh but I do really dislike his Jules push. It’s just...bad. Pushing people for how they normally play is one of my pet peeves though so idk.
You just watched me play a very distinctive scumgame sir. Is it my town game you're missing?

read: compare this to my other scum game which is nothing like this one

sig wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:31 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:01 am My character is so fun to roleplay as that I don’t know how. LC can die but if the point of the game is complete our personal vendettas against LC maybe we’re going down the wrong path
I feel like your bad or trump, who may be bad.

I'd know how to role-play as trump

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:27 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:26 pm mmm Sarah Palin?
I wasn't into politics back in 2008 so I don't really get it.

I was guessing at your character.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:24 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:44 pm I don't have time to respond to everything now, so I'm just going to speak generally to this point:

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:36 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:52 pm
112 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:57 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:55 am This is also your first game in awhile, I believe, and I'm the player you know best. In fact, I suspect you're not overly familiar with anyone else except to some extent Hyena and Nutella. So I wasn't surprised that you zeroed in on me (/us) immediately and ignored other players.
What if I'm not actually suspecting you, am mafia, and just FoSed you in order to score townpoints? You're just assuming I'm town, which is exactly what I want in the proverbial world where I'm scum.
Oh my god this is amazing, I am on this.

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine
This is probably the best point against MR.

@Master Radishes what do you have to say about this? Were you assuming 112 is town, and if so do you have good reason for that?
I treat everyone as town by default at the start of a game, and wait till something suggests to me they aren't. 112's opening tone was decent enough, and her penchant for interacting with people familiar to her common enough, that no, I didn't assume she was scum when she immediately SRed me for a couple of meaningless opening posts.
To follow up from earlier...

Much as I was pinged by MR's posts, this particular one didn't offend me much. The 'gravitating toward the player you know best' thing is something I've seen towny and scummy players do, and I don't think 112 is going at it in a scummy way. This post doesn't excuse the skeevy feelings I get from the other posts I've quoted, but I think this one is a nothingburger. Or it's handery-turvying, if you want to get technical.

mmm Sarah Palin?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:20 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:41 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:35 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:21 pm
112 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:59 pm What if Tony and MR are both scum?
Funny, I was thinking MR and you
Distancing.
it’s 112 and tony it was right in front of us this whole time
lol I meant between you and MR

'lol' tell get em

112 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:18 pm LC seems supradefensive.

explain

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:56 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:26 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:36 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:52 pm
112 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:57 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:55 am This is also your first game in awhile, I believe, and I'm the player you know best. In fact, I suspect you're not overly familiar with anyone else except to some extent Hyena and Nutella. So I wasn't surprised that you zeroed in on me (/us) immediately and ignored other players.
What if I'm not actually suspecting you, am mafia, and just FoSed you in order to score townpoints? You're just assuming I'm town, which is exactly what I want in the proverbial world where I'm scum.
Oh my god this is amazing, I am on this.

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine
This is probably the best point against MR.

@Master Radishes what do you have to say about this? Were you assuming 112 is town, and if so do you have good reason for that?
This argument is always always flawed. Yes, scum does it, but town does most of the time too. Paranoia is a good town tell, but the lack of it post by post isn’t a good scum tell.
Tony, I have read this like five times and I'm too dense to understand it. What is the "it" that scum does and town does most of the time too?

assuming X is town (or assuming X is telling the truth, a variation on the former)

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:35 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:21 pm
112 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:59 pm What if Tony and MR are both scum?
Funny, I was thinking MR and you
Distancing.

it’s 112 and tony it was right in front of us this whole time

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:02 pm WTF is "stilted"?

apparently me

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:36 pm
M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:52 pm
112 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:57 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:55 am This is also your first game in awhile, I believe, and I'm the player you know best. In fact, I suspect you're not overly familiar with anyone else except to some extent Hyena and Nutella. So I wasn't surprised that you zeroed in on me (/us) immediately and ignored other players.
What if I'm not actually suspecting you, am mafia, and just FoSed you in order to score townpoints? You're just assuming I'm town, which is exactly what I want in the proverbial world where I'm scum.
Oh my god this is amazing, I am on this.

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine
This is probably the best point against MR.

@Master Radishes what do you have to say about this? Were you assuming 112 is town, and if so do you have good reason for that?

This argument is always always flawed. Yes, scum does it, but town does most of the time too. Paranoia is a good town tell, but the lack of it post by post isn’t a good scum tell.

112 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:59 pm What if Tony and MR are both scum?

Funny, I was thinking MR and you

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:59 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:22 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:01 am LC can die but if the point of the game is complete our personal vendettas against LC maybe we’re going down the wrong path
You seem oddly concerned about an LC lynch.
Agreed! I realize that DDL has only posted once, but do you have any sort of assessment of them at the moment?

Me or MR?

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