The Late Bronze Age Collapse [END]

[Epignosis]

If I'm wrong at any point, there's another several hours to discuss it. Guillotine called me good (I don't know why) and S~V~S has said nothing about me (I don't know why).

One thing is for sure:

Unlike Ozymandias, I will be back later.

[Guillotine]

Somif your solve is SVS and me then easy, lynch SvS then me, except of course if there are two scum which i firmly believe, the game will not end and then you vote out Wilgy and the game will end.m

I am going to explain this to you.

Because you're so good at Mafia and all.

You said S~V~S was bad. That was this afternoon.

Later at this afternoon, you said you would vote S~V~S "if the wagons remain like this."

If you are a civilian, you vote S~V~S and go on about your business. You didn't do that.

You are teammates.

Explain to me why I am wrong.

Because my focus at the time was Michelle whom i believed was scum and that if she was not then it is wilgy, im treating those as a difference check and as the cred hog that i am, i prefer a flip of a wolf i pushed than a flip of a wolf i was not responsible for pushing.

[Guillotine]

I wholeheartedly disagree. I dont see the benefit of talking about me h on day 1 other than allowing wolves try to blend in with it, i wanna catch them slipping, i want to take their hopes of winning early, i want to crash their chances, i want them to feel suffocated by having to make reads on people, i want them to associate with people.

I'll take "Posts That Didn't Age Well" for 300, Alex.

LMAO

This is funny

[Michelle]

This was the pocket attempt from Guillo

Now will you stop tunneling back and help catch wolves or what Michelle.

I still believe Wilgy is scum, he flip flops a lot on me.

And the reads list as well

Town

Michelle

Null

Seanzie
Cat

Scum

DrWilgy
SvS


Spicy read

LinearPoint could be whiteknighting me.

I said no

Guillo, I don't SR Wigly


And I don't trust your test, so my vote stays

He restarted the tunnel

What if Michelle is scum with SvS though.

Michelle, did you react to the bussing accusation from SvS?

There's no need to react at that, did you react at her suspecting you?


The above posts came pretty fast one after the other and how Guillo puts only me as TR and only for meta reasons shows agenda fmpov

What he said, that he misread me only in the hydra with Wisdom P#188 (i don't have a hydra with Wisdom, btw) is wrong. This year MU Anni is just a proof he lies.

.

Talking about post 188 don't call me sweety if you want to remain friends @Guillotine

Why cant i be town he does not remember anni?

You can be a townie forgetting a bad game, sure, I forget myself almost all games lately, but then you shouldn't be sure you never misread me.

Looking at this game, I think my 3 am brain explained well enough why I see you as mafia.

If I am wrong about you, we still have a lot of time to figure out things before Eod and I will be here because I will wake up earlier tomorrow morning.

So we have a double chance at interactions. Talk to me about everyone, I already did it, but I don't remember it from you

@Guillotine

[Guillotine]

If I'm wrong at any point, there's another several hours to discuss it. Guillotine called me good (I don't know why) and S~V~S has said nothing about me (I don't know why).

One thing is for sure:

Unlike Ozymandias, I will be back later.

If you still dont know why, you have not been reading or lack of reading comprehension or dont understand language or you are myopic

[Guillotine]

This was the pocket attempt from Guillo

Now will you stop tunneling back and help catch wolves or what Michelle.

I still believe Wilgy is scum, he flip flops a lot on me.

And the reads list as well

Town

Michelle

Null

Seanzie
Cat

Scum

DrWilgy
SvS


Spicy read

LinearPoint could be whiteknighting me.

I said no

Guillo, I don't SR Wigly


And I don't trust your test, so my vote stays

He restarted the tunnel

What if Michelle is scum with SvS though.

Michelle, did you react to the bussing accusation from SvS?

There's no need to react at that, did you react at her suspecting you?


The above posts came pretty fast one after the other and how Guillo puts only me as TR and only for meta reasons shows agenda fmpov

What he said, that he misread me only in the hydra with Wisdom P#188 (i don't have a hydra with Wisdom, btw) is wrong. This year MU Anni is just a proof he lies.

.

Talking about post 188 don't call me sweety if you want to remain friends @Guillotine

Why cant i be town he does not remember anni?

You can be a townie forgetting a bad game, sure, I forget myself almost all games lately, but then you shouldn't be sure you never misread me.

Looking at this game, I think my 3 am brain explained well enough why I see you as mafia.

If I am wrong about you, we still have a lot of time to figure out things before Eod and I will be here because I will wake up earlier tomorrow morning.

So we have a double chance at interactions. Talk to me about everyone, I already did it, but I don't remember it from you

@Guillotine

In my opinion this is the PoE that wins the game

Wilgy
SvS
Seanzie (if he completely does not post today).

If Wilgy is town then my advice is to flip you, i e never seen you wall post as scum so im townreading that even though the content is uncharitable from you and completely wrong, but if Wilgy flips town you are scum and gteat try!

If you also flip town then this is where i'd have to reevaluate.

My top top town right now is Linear
Followed by Epignosis
Then you, but yours is conditional.

[Michelle]

Reading Epi's case I agreed with it regarding SVS but honestly the idea he thinks I am paired with her made me laugh.

So I use ^^ instead big green to not search for it and this is a habit I have since I talked daily with my honies about what the next Naruto chapter will be about, and also I know the words of many emojis because searching them is a pain on phone, and someone else abuse the ^^ sign and tadaaa! we are partners?

No sir, we are not partners, except she is town, wiich I doubt.

[Guillotine]

I meant no ill intent by the sweety comment but i will not do it again, i cherish your friendship

[Michelle]

I as town read from you Guillo, like earlier, is conditioned by meta

Meta is no more than a crutch, not a meaning to make a read, because people can break it on purpose, if you look at it from distance.

Like Michelle is town because she don't wall posts as mafia is like a far away taken photo, but Michelle is town because she was careful to make the wall easy readable is a more close up photo of a detail in the landscape.

Also if you want to go even closer to the truth, you check what Michelle intended to do with that post and leave the photographic approach of meta and go to level 2, if analysing it.


For eg, if I say Guillo is scum because he never wall case as town from what I know would be the first bad approach.

[Michelle]

I meant no ill intent by the sweety comment but i will not do it again, i cherish your friendship

It's ok,dw, we are good
Also press the OT button and write inside the code for the off topic parts

[Michelle]

I will read Wilgy's entrance again and probably all the game after work.

[cat]

I don't see what people see about SVS so i will stay off.

To me reading Michelle posts actually seems more like baiting discussion than actually slipping something, she came back from work, started talking to people and trying to rile them up, unlike Guillotina who did nothing to start and start flailing when they get called out... I don't know the attentiveness of th people here but i'm pretty sure directly talking to people is more likely to create actual discussion then ignoring them. I won't give pointers since im a reactionary player myself but if you want to get people to talk about you it's much better to do something else than make the entire thread suspect you by saying something bland or generic

[cat]

I don't see what people see about SVS so i will stay off.

To reiterate SVS seems awkward and is fighting a pointless battle. Who cares if Michelle is agressive or not if you yourself think Michelle is null for it. Just drop the subject.
But it's also not necesarily damning.

[S~V~S]

I don't see what people see about SVS so i will stay off.

To reiterate SVS seems awkward and is fighting a pointless battle. Who cares if Michelle is agressive or not if you yourself think Michelle is null for it. Just drop the subject.
But it's also not necesarily damning.

Yeah I don’t see it either, tbh. I get falcons vote for me; he’s misconstrued my context as town before.

And I didn’t drop the subject cause people started suspecting me for it

I fell asleep on the couch post work last night so I need to catch up and see why I have 4 votes. Especially Epi, who should know better imo. He would know I don’t make up fake suspicions out of the gate like that on Day one as a baddie.

Off to read.

[S~V~S]

If I recall correctly, all that's left of Ozymandias is an inscribed pedestal and his feet, right? Maybe I'll save the despair for some other game.

This is an awkward start time for me, I'm unlikely to be here EOD. I guess I expected overnight catchup to be more time consuming. I should have time to watch the video instead.

I do not mind this sort of entrance post. I think the word "instead" is weird, but I think I get it.

Instead of using my limited time to catch up to lots of posts, I'll have time to watch the video instead. "Weird" isn't "bad".

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Nothing wrong with this post in a vacuum either.

In context, I think Michelle's question is a little too much to take seriously. Michelle has played a long time and even said of playing with S~V~S: "Yes, of course. Many times but I never counted."

I believe Michelle would know the number is "two" and never one or three.

The question and answer happened so quickly together.

I think a civilian S~V~S would have waited it out to see how others would have responded to Michelle's question before weighing in (or responding at all). It's such a softball interaction.

I thought she was trying to spark up some conversation. So I made conversation. It is softball; why would I care what others think, and it surprises me that you think I would. *BAD* me would care. Town me says what I have to say and hits "Post".

LP
Seanzie
Cat
Epi
SVS
MR
Michelle
Guillo

I get why Guillo, but why Michelle? I don’t associate snap votes with bad Michelle, do you think she’s bussing him?

I sense a moment of panic here.

The tactic is to try to clear a teammate on the back of someone else's lynch. If Guillotine (who has the most votes) is a civilian, then obviously Michelle couldn't be "bussing" him.

More importantly, I don't see S~V~S trying to understand DrWilgy's other colors. No questions about me (I certainly have done nothing to warrant being green) or anybody else. This means that S~V~S isn't trying to understand DrWilgy, which means S~V~S already knows DrWilgy is not mafia.

Panic? I was asking him to expand on his reads. Which is what people do. This whole post so far feels like youre reading into what I'm saying *trying* to find a reason to suspect me.

Asking a person to explain their reads is EXACTLY trying to understand his colors, and I had no questions about the rest of the list. I think I have a fairly good feel for Wilgy most of the time, but i've been spectacularly wrong (see: Meta) so sorting Wilgy is important to me. Besides, as an old school player, you know I'm more interested in peoples baddie reads than their town reads.

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Why would be 3 unbalanced?

With only 10 players? That’s almost a third of the players list?

His Solar System game had 11 players, 2 mafia. With fewer players more wolves seems unlikely?

This is rather a debatable point to get aggro about?

I don't understand this at all. At what point was Michelle getting "aggro?"

I already explained this (@cat this is why I keep talking about it ^^). The way she answered me was very staccato, and felt challenging to me. "Aggro" was a word choice, i could have chosen others, that was the one I chose. That's how it felt to me. She threw the thread a speculation softball, I picked it up and tossed it back, and she threw it back harder than I would have expected.

I'm not sure what there is to "Understand at all".

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Why would be 3 unbalanced?

With only 10 players? That’s almost a third of the players list?

His Solar System game had 11 players, 2 mafia. With fewer players more wolves seems unlikely?

This is rather a debatable point to get aggro about?

Did I put enough question marks in this ^^? Maybe I need a few more?

@DrWilgy mathematical balance is not my strong suit; I was working on the premise that he wouldn’t have more wolves than in a game with more players than this. Hopefully he chooses to tell us, but if not, not.

Nothing wrong with this, but quoting it for later.

Actually Michelle is wolfing

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

I dont believe you question how 3 wolves would be unbalanced in a game with 10 players

2 is a bit town sided.

Fight me, I am bored ^^

@falcon45ca even she thought she was sounding a bit aggro ^^ eh?

Although she might have been shading me, she made this post after the one I made implying she was sounding a tad aggro.

Good S~V~S engages with Michelle to find out what Michelle meant rather than talking to someone else about it and then assigning her own meaning to Michelle's post.

Not sure what you are saying here? Right after I made the aggro remark, she asked someone if they wanted to fight lol. I am kinda perplexed as to why this whole thing is so suspect, tbh,

Actually Michelle is wolfing

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

I dont believe you question how 3 wolves would be unbalanced in a game with 10 players

2 is a bit town sided.

Fight me, I am bored ^^

@falcon45ca even she thought she was sounding a bit aggro ^^ eh?

Although she might have been shading me, she made this post after the one I made implying she was sounding a tad aggro.

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Why would be 3 unbalanced?

@S~V~S is this the post you are referring to as shade in?

No the one I quoted, where she said “fight me” to someone else since she said that after I called her aggro lol

More making fun than shading, maybe like :P

That was: Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:51 am

Actually Michelle is wolfing

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

I dont believe you question how 3 wolves would be unbalanced in a game with 10 players

2 is a bit town sided.

Fight me, I am bored ^^

@falcon45ca even she thought she was sounding a bit aggro ^^ eh?

Although she might have been shading me, she made this post after the one I made implying she was sounding a tad aggro.

@Michelle Are you aggro?






We all have heard players say 'fight me I'm bored', and we've all seen players actually get aggro....the two are not the same






SVS is making mountains of molehills






[VOTE: SVS] aubergine

Am I?

I don't intend to. I have no idea how that is an aggression.

The ^^ is an emote sign, similar to so for me it had a joking tone.

That was: Wed Aug 23, 2023 11:00 am

Nine minutes later.

I noted multiple "^^" in S~V~S's posts. They just stood out to me. It's almost like an inside joke between Michelle and S~V~S knowing they don't have a chance in this game, so screw it, have fun. I believe S~V~S is gassed as mafia. I believe Michelle doesn't like to be mafia.

Read my iso. I use that ALL THE TIME. Especially if I'm posting on phone when pulling quotes is too much of a PITA. But even when I'm not.

@falcon45ca nah

You’re reading too much into one word. I’ve noticed you tend to do this with me.

Do you think Michelle is town?

I don't know what word S~V~S is referring to. She doesn't say. Again, there's nothing to figure falcon out and a weird question about Michelle.

It was not a weird question. He was voting me based on my reaction to something Michelle said, so i was interested in his opinion of her. And in the Emperors Soul game, Falcon suspected me based on my word usage. He was wrong, we were both town, and that is what I was referencing here. I'm fairly sure he should have gotten my reference.

@falcon45ca nah

You’re reading too much into one word. I’ve noticed you tend to do this with me.

Do you think Michelle is town?

I mean, I kinda saw it too.

I think assumption of aggro from Michelle was somewhat overplaced, I do think W's are immediately more aware or easier to perceive pushes against them. i.e. aggro.

The staccato way she said it felt almost accusatory to me, it’s how I read her tone, I’m a tone reader

It’s not something I necessarily associate with bad Michelle (for me my bad Michelle reference point was Anni, where she was not aggro). This was more an observation as I was a bit taken aback by how she got in my face over it. She asked a throwaway question (unless the host clarifies, who knows?) I gave a throwaway answer (again, who knows?) and she got in my face about it.

In the last game I played with town Falcon he susses town me for word choice. I mean, this is all over one word which tbh I still find valid in the context in which I used it.

In any case I don’t think I’m the one mountain/molehilling.

@LinearPoint havent read your post just kinda skimmed, I’ll get back to you after work.

I believe S~V~S and Michelle are mafia.

Yikes. Replies intext in glowy

Personally, I do not think she is bad. If she is she changed up her game alot. My town touchstone for Michelle was Anni; there she was evasive, avoided discussion or giving opinions. She was slippery, and had a "heh heh" feel to her that was absent in any of the town games I have seen her play. It is absent here.

I am kinda astounded that this is the most suspicious thing people are finding. That I made a word choice that was perhaps not the best word choice, and I'm getting raked over the coals for it now. the fact that you think I would faux banter or set up faux suspish with a teammate tells me you don't understand my game at all.

This post is such a stretch, especially from you, that I'm fairly sure you're town, too. Because, like me, I don't see you making up something like this Day One.

I still have to read Linear Points big post, and unless it's more of this ^^^, looks like I spent most of my catch up time on this absurdity.

Sorry to call your post absurd, you obvs put alot of work into it (and you know I would never think *you* are absurd), but name one game you've seen me act like this when I was bad?

@falcon45ca You want to see making mountains out of molehills? Take a look at this ^^

[S~V~S]

I am not liking what I am reading from S~V~S so far.

This post is basically just meaningless fluff that doesn't even realistically contribute to anything.

Spoiler: show

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

100% Meaningless fluff. Like almost 100% of the game posts made before it.


Pair that last post with this one and I think there is a solid argument that S~V~S is trying to comment on the setup while sidestepping other topics. This is doubly so since by the point of this second post the Guillotine and Michelle situation was starting to develop.

Spoiler: show

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Why would be 3 unbalanced?

With only 10 players? That’s almost a third of the players list?

His Solar System game had 11 players, 2 mafia. With fewer players more wolves seems unlikely?

This is rather a debatable point to get aggro about?

What other topics? At this stage, I don't recall there being any other topics. She asked a question (I assume) to start discussion, I answered it for samesies.

Then I found this post to also ping me a bit. I find it weird they drop the Guillotine suspicious read in there, but were not one of the people voting on Guillotine. Then they also drop a good read on MIchelle while (in my opinion) also shading them as potentially bussing Guillotine. Which I do think it is also just odd to bring up bussing this early into the game.

Spoiler: show

LP
Seanzie
Cat
Epi
SVS
MR
Michelle
Guillo

I get why Guillo, but why Michelle? I don’t associate snap votes with bad Michelle, do you think she’s bussing him?

I got why Guillo, becasue three people in a row voted for him for his boredom remark. Epi also found my commenting on only the bottom of the list sus. I understand it more from you; we've never played together. I'm not overly concerned with other peoples town reads, but I want to understand why they suspect someone. Especially someone like Wilgy, whose thought process is so so different than mine. What they are seeing that I am not. This is how town works together.


This last one is probably just me being paranoid, but these few posts are reading to me as a wolf who is trying to go with the nice guy approach and trying to talk people down by being overly non-agressive.

Spoiler: show

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Why would be 3 unbalanced?

With only 10 players? That’s almost a third of the players list?

His Solar System game had 11 players, 2 mafia. With fewer players more wolves seems unlikely?

This is rather a debatable point to get aggro about?

Did I put enough question marks in this ^^? Maybe I need a few more?

@DrWilgy mathematical balance is not my strong suit; I was working on the premise that he wouldn’t have more wolves than in a game with more players than this. Hopefully he chooses to tell us, but if not, not.

@falcon45ca nah

You’re reading too much into one word. I’ve noticed you tend to do this with me.

Do you think Michelle is town?

[VOTE: S~V~S] aubergine

I used to be fairly aggro myself when town, and when I was getting NKed night one all the time, I dirtied up my town game a bit (which is easier imo than trying to play a more aggro game when wolf), so i always try to be non aggressive when possible. Also as a site mod, it's a good practice to try not to be the person other people complain about. So I try to pull back for that reason, too. I am already kinda regretting calling Epis post "absurd" for instance. It's not a good look to talk about peoples thoughts that way.

Again, I think all of this is silly, suspecting me for using the work aggro when other people did not find that post aggro. Becasue that is what ALL of this boils down to.

When I looked in yesterday, I saw that Guillo had voted for me, then I saw he moved away iirc, now I see hes back. This was the behavior I recall from him in the game I modded where he was bad, he bounced around alot, didn't stick to suspicions in order to avoid aggravating anyone. It was good baddie play. Not sure if he's doing that here in general, or just did it with me, I've only had time this AM to address suspicions on me. I have the day from hell at work today with a meeting I'm not looking forward to, but hope to read back. In any case should have several hours after work. He's my main opposing wagon, but I won't vote for him unless i actually find him suspect.

I am actually OK being yeeted if it comes down to that, y'all will get some info from that.

[S~V~S]

*"My wolf touchstone for Michelle" in the reply to Epi*

[S~V~S]

OK, I did a quick skim of Guillos last dozen or so posts, and he doesn't seem particularly bad to me. I am not agreeing with what he's saying (obvs) but he's saying it in an open way.

I see Wilgy voted for him, and Wilgy has recent bad Guillo experience, so i want to see his opinion there, so I'll try to read back on them at work today. hasta la vista folks.

[S~V~S]

Reading Epi's case I agreed with it regarding SVS but honestly the idea he thinks I am paired with her made me laugh.

So I use ^^ instead big green to not search for it and this is a habit I have since I talked daily with my honies about what the next Naruto chapter will be about, and also I know the words of many emojis because searching them is a pain on phone, and someone else abuse the ^^ sign and tadaaa! we are partners?

No sir, we are not partners, except she is town, wiich I doubt.

Which parts did you agree with?

[S~V~S]

Also @Michelle why specifically do you doubt I’m town?

Other than Epis case?

How does this compare to other games where you’ve seen me wolf?

[S~V~S]

[VOTE: Guillo] aubergine

See y'all tomorrow.

I agree with Sean

[VOTE: Guillo] aubergine

Why?

Keep reading, there's the explanation of how I saw Guillo not helping town by that

Do you have any thoughts on anyone else besides Guillotine?

Yes, I do have.
I posted a reads list.
Wilgy has a good tone when talking to Falcon and Guillo, and also shared a good amount of content, Falcon is focused on solving which is a villagery point. I don't know you but the way you're nitpicking the things seems like you search for the truth not for agenda.

Cat was funny, Sean voted first, Epi was cool, I would like to give them a town lean for each

SVS, I am waiting for her answer.

Did I miss anyone?

I think your sus on them is not all that strong, especially when the day started as people were going to sleep.
Although with that note, I do want to hear your thoughts on this post. Since you said you didn't like that Guillotine was not creating content, yet they came out later and said they were trying to rille people up to talk about Guillotine. Seems contradictory to your original sus read, so I was wonder if you have changed it, found a new reason to sus Guillotine, or have work that post into your previous world view of Guillotine.

Now that you make me think at it:
His claimed intention is not contradictory with my perception at all.
He said he acted like that for content but he has no conclusion based on that, except I am a wolf because allegedly I should know a heist game have 2 mafia in 10 players and if I suspect there can be 3 then I have unclear intentions to switch the thread to mech talks, so I am his suspect.
I think he talked more than I did about mechanics in his posts against me and he didn't post conclusions based on his 'test' which comes in contradiction with it being a real test.

What answer? I missed the @, can you bump it for me?

[S~V~S]

@DrWilgy or @falcon45ca Something I am curious about.

Falcon mentioned that they think SVS was muddying the waters by saying Michelle was being too aggro on Guillotine. Since WIlgy said they agreed with falcon and explained the reason for the sus better I figured I would ask you both.

If SVS is actually a wolf here, do either of you think that would imply Guillotine is wolf as well? Does it mean that you think Michelle is town for being shaded?

SVS/Guillo has nothing to dissuade from a W/W pairing.

Michelle town adds scum equity to both.

What I find most interesting about SVS/Guillo pairing is that in spite of Guillo's opposition to mechanical discourse, there's been no interaction with SVS who is partaking IN said mechanical discourse and has data/reads from that mechanical discourse.

When i said we should stop speculating about mechanical i meant it for everyone it applied to.

Ok, but the core of the argument is that you didn't interact with SVS specifically when the discussion warranted it and thus you are viable W/W. This doesn't change that.

You guys are talking like this is a done deal and I’ve flipped bad. It’s not, and I’m not.

I interacted with almost no one since I was barely in the thread and had only made a few posts when I started taking suspish and getting defensive. So if he is wolf, it’s with someone else, not me.

[DrWilgy]

Good morning.

[DrWilgy]

@DrWilgy or @falcon45ca Something I am curious about.

Falcon mentioned that they think SVS was muddying the waters by saying Michelle was being too aggro on Guillotine. Since WIlgy said they agreed with falcon and explained the reason for the sus better I figured I would ask you both.

If SVS is actually a wolf here, do either of you think that would imply Guillotine is wolf as well? Does it mean that you think Michelle is town for being shaded?

SVS/Guillo has nothing to dissuade from a W/W pairing.

Michelle town adds scum equity to both.

What I find most interesting about SVS/Guillo pairing is that in spite of Guillo's opposition to mechanical discourse, there's been no interaction with SVS who is partaking IN said mechanical discourse and has data/reads from that mechanical discourse.

When i said we should stop speculating about mechanical i meant it for everyone it applied to.

Ok, but the core of the argument is that you didn't interact with SVS specifically when the discussion warranted it and thus you are viable W/W. This doesn't change that.

You guys are talking like this is a done deal and I’ve flipped bad. It’s not, and I’m not.

I interacted with almost no one since I was barely in the thread and had only made a few posts when I started taking suspish and getting defensive. So if he is wolf, it’s with someone else, not me.

LP asked specifically regarding the equity between you and Guillo, probably because I think there's at least one between you Guillo and Michelle. Guillo argued against it with "vague blanket statements meant I was in fact interacting with SVS" which is gross and I called it out.

The statement wasn't you/Guillo are teammates, it was you two both have equity and Guillos argument against that was bad.

[falcon45ca]

If I'm wrong at any point, there's another several hours to discuss it. Guillotine called me good (I don't know why) and S~V~S has said nothing about me (I don't know why).

One thing is for sure:

Unlike Ozymandias, I will be back later.

If you still dont know why, you have not been reading or lack of reading comprehension or dont understand language or you are myopic

Why don't you think Epi could be scum here, pushing an agenda?

[Guillotine]

I as town read from you Guillo, like earlier, is conditioned by meta

Meta is no more than a crutch, not a meaning to make a read, because people can break it on purpose, if you look at it from distance.

Like Michelle is town because she don't wall posts as mafia is like a far away taken photo, but Michelle is town because she was careful to make the wall easy readable is a more close up photo of a detail in the landscape.

Also if you want to go even closer to the truth, you check what Michelle intended to do with that post and leave the photographic approach of meta and go to level 2, if analysing it.


For eg, if I say Guillo is scum because he never wall case as town from what I know would be the first bad approach.

Without the things i believe you dont do as scum i'd be thinking you are one.

[Guillotine]

If I'm wrong at any point, there's another several hours to discuss it. Guillotine called me good (I don't know why) and S~V~S has said nothing about me (I don't know why).

One thing is for sure:

Unlike Ozymandias, I will be back later.

If you still dont know why, you have not been reading or lack of reading comprehension or dont understand language or you are myopic

Why don't you think Epi could be scum here, pushing an agenda?

Because i put myself on his shoes to see from his vantage point what he saw, and i can see that my reason to vote SvS at the time looked based on poor logic. It id a townie thought.

[DrWilgy]

OK, I did a quick skim of Guillos last dozen or so posts, and he doesn't seem particularly bad to me. I am not agreeing with what he's saying (obvs) but he's saying it in an open way.

I see Wilgy voted for him, and Wilgy has recent bad Guillo experience, so i want to see his opinion there, so I'll try to read back on them at work today. hasta la vista folks.

I mean the early Guillo vote was just that, an early Guillo vote. As it stands, they are in the realm of light sr to null. They continue to insist on silly worlds, I think I saw Wilgy/SVS as their proposed solve and they insist on "well there's one in Wilgy/Michelle and it's not Michelle" which feels like a forced perspective. I do think Epi's observations on how Guillo has postured you on fallback, scummy but always fallback, is Wolfy from Guillo and a good observation by Epi.

I've kinda touched on meta already,

Guillo is good at what I'd describe as "forced town perspective" and trying to be volume spewed. Their play this game feels very reminiscent of interactions I read between W Guillo and T Seanzie in the fame you referenced. While it's not something I'd say I'm confident of, it is something that scratches at my skull.

[Guillotine]

If I'm wrong at any point, there's another several hours to discuss it. Guillotine called me good (I don't know why) and S~V~S has said nothing about me (I don't know why).

One thing is for sure:

Unlike Ozymandias, I will be back later.

If you still dont know why, you have not been reading or lack of reading comprehension or dont understand language or you are myopic

Why don't you think Epi could be scum here, pushing an agenda?

Because i put myself on his shoes to see from his vantage point what he saw, and i can see that my reason to vote SvS at the time looked based on poor logic. It is a townie thought.

[DrWilgy]

Somif your solve is SVS and me then easy, lynch SvS then me, except of course if there are two scum which i firmly believe, the game will not end and then you vote out Wilgy and the game will end.m

I am going to explain this to you.

Because you're so good at Mafia and all.

You said S~V~S was bad. That was this afternoon.

Later at this afternoon, you said you would vote S~V~S "if the wagons remain like this."

If you are a civilian, you vote S~V~S and go on about your business. You didn't do that.

You are teammates.

Explain to me why I am wrong.

Because my focus at the time was Michelle whom i believed was scum and that if she was not then it is wilgy, im treating those as a difference check and as the cred hog that i am, i prefer a flip of a wolf i pushed than a flip of a wolf i was not responsible for pushing.

This doesn't even make sense and if the argument is the "wagon of three early" you are discounting Seanzie entirely.

This feels like I said previously, a forced perspective.

[falcon45ca]

If I recall correctly, all that's left of Ozymandias is an inscribed pedestal and his feet, right? Maybe I'll save the despair for some other game.

This is an awkward start time for me, I'm unlikely to be here EOD. I guess I expected overnight catchup to be more time consuming. I should have time to watch the video instead.

I do not mind this sort of entrance post. I think the word "instead" is weird, but I think I get it.

Instead of using my limited time to catch up to lots of posts, I'll have time to watch the video instead. "Weird" isn't "bad".

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Nothing wrong with this post in a vacuum either.

In context, I think Michelle's question is a little too much to take seriously. Michelle has played a long time and even said of playing with S~V~S: "Yes, of course. Many times but I never counted."

I believe Michelle would know the number is "two" and never one or three.

The question and answer happened so quickly together.

I think a civilian S~V~S would have waited it out to see how others would have responded to Michelle's question before weighing in (or responding at all). It's such a softball interaction.

I thought she was trying to spark up some conversation. So I made conversation. It is softball; why would I care what others think, and it surprises me that you think I would. *BAD* me would care. Town me says what I have to say and hits "Post".

LP
Seanzie
Cat
Epi
SVS
MR
Michelle
Guillo

I get why Guillo, but why Michelle? I don’t associate snap votes with bad Michelle, do you think she’s bussing him?

I sense a moment of panic here.

The tactic is to try to clear a teammate on the back of someone else's lynch. If Guillotine (who has the most votes) is a civilian, then obviously Michelle couldn't be "bussing" him.

More importantly, I don't see S~V~S trying to understand DrWilgy's other colors. No questions about me (I certainly have done nothing to warrant being green) or anybody else. This means that S~V~S isn't trying to understand DrWilgy, which means S~V~S already knows DrWilgy is not mafia.

Panic? I was asking him to expand on his reads. Which is what people do. This whole post so far feels like youre reading into what I'm saying *trying* to find a reason to suspect me.

Asking a person to explain their reads is EXACTLY trying to understand his colors, and I had no questions about the rest of the list. I think I have a fairly good feel for Wilgy most of the time, but i've been spectacularly wrong (see: Meta) so sorting Wilgy is important to me. Besides, as an old school player, you know I'm more interested in peoples baddie reads than their town reads.

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Why would be 3 unbalanced?

With only 10 players? That’s almost a third of the players list?

His Solar System game had 11 players, 2 mafia. With fewer players more wolves seems unlikely?

This is rather a debatable point to get aggro about?

I don't understand this at all. At what point was Michelle getting "aggro?"

I already explained this (@cat this is why I keep talking about it ^^). The way she answered me was very staccato, and felt challenging to me. "Aggro" was a word choice, i could have chosen others, that was the one I chose. That's how it felt to me. She threw the thread a speculation softball, I picked it up and tossed it back, and she threw it back harder than I would have expected.

I'm not sure what there is to "Understand at all".

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Why would be 3 unbalanced?

With only 10 players? That’s almost a third of the players list?

His Solar System game had 11 players, 2 mafia. With fewer players more wolves seems unlikely?

This is rather a debatable point to get aggro about?

Did I put enough question marks in this ^^? Maybe I need a few more?

@DrWilgy mathematical balance is not my strong suit; I was working on the premise that he wouldn’t have more wolves than in a game with more players than this. Hopefully he chooses to tell us, but if not, not.

Nothing wrong with this, but quoting it for later.

Actually Michelle is wolfing

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

I dont believe you question how 3 wolves would be unbalanced in a game with 10 players

2 is a bit town sided.

Fight me, I am bored ^^

@falcon45ca even she thought she was sounding a bit aggro ^^ eh?

Although she might have been shading me, she made this post after the one I made implying she was sounding a tad aggro.

Good S~V~S engages with Michelle to find out what Michelle meant rather than talking to someone else about it and then assigning her own meaning to Michelle's post.

Not sure what you are saying here? Right after I made the aggro remark, she asked someone if they wanted to fight lol. I am kinda perplexed as to why this whole thing is so suspect, tbh,

Actually Michelle is wolfing

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

I dont believe you question how 3 wolves would be unbalanced in a game with 10 players

2 is a bit town sided.

Fight me, I am bored ^^

@falcon45ca even she thought she was sounding a bit aggro ^^ eh?

Although she might have been shading me, she made this post after the one I made implying she was sounding a tad aggro.

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Why would be 3 unbalanced?

@S~V~S is this the post you are referring to as shade in?

No the one I quoted, where she said “fight me” to someone else since she said that after I called her aggro lol

More making fun than shading, maybe like :P

That was: Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:51 am

Actually Michelle is wolfing

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

I dont believe you question how 3 wolves would be unbalanced in a game with 10 players

2 is a bit town sided.

Fight me, I am bored ^^

@falcon45ca even she thought she was sounding a bit aggro ^^ eh?

Although she might have been shading me, she made this post after the one I made implying she was sounding a tad aggro.

@Michelle Are you aggro?






We all have heard players say 'fight me I'm bored', and we've all seen players actually get aggro....the two are not the same






SVS is making mountains of molehills






[VOTE: SVS] aubergine

Am I?

I don't intend to. I have no idea how that is an aggression.

The ^^ is an emote sign, similar to so for me it had a joking tone.

That was: Wed Aug 23, 2023 11:00 am

Nine minutes later.

I noted multiple "^^" in S~V~S's posts. They just stood out to me. It's almost like an inside joke between Michelle and S~V~S knowing they don't have a chance in this game, so screw it, have fun. I believe S~V~S is gassed as mafia. I believe Michelle doesn't like to be mafia.

Read my iso. I use that ALL THE TIME. Especially if I'm posting on phone when pulling quotes is too much of a PITA. But even when I'm not.

@falcon45ca nah

You’re reading too much into one word. I’ve noticed you tend to do this with me.

Do you think Michelle is town?

I don't know what word S~V~S is referring to. She doesn't say. Again, there's nothing to figure falcon out and a weird question about Michelle.

It was not a weird question. He was voting me based on my reaction to something Michelle said, so i was interested in his opinion of her. And in the Emperors Soul game, Falcon suspected me based on my word usage. He was wrong, we were both town, and that is what I was referencing here. I'm fairly sure he should have gotten my reference.

@falcon45ca nah

You’re reading too much into one word. I’ve noticed you tend to do this with me.

Do you think Michelle is town?

I mean, I kinda saw it too.

I think assumption of aggro from Michelle was somewhat overplaced, I do think W's are immediately more aware or easier to perceive pushes against them. i.e. aggro.

The staccato way she said it felt almost accusatory to me, it’s how I read her tone, I’m a tone reader

It’s not something I necessarily associate with bad Michelle (for me my bad Michelle reference point was Anni, where she was not aggro). This was more an observation as I was a bit taken aback by how she got in my face over it. She asked a throwaway question (unless the host clarifies, who knows?) I gave a throwaway answer (again, who knows?) and she got in my face about it.

In the last game I played with town Falcon he susses town me for word choice. I mean, this is all over one word which tbh I still find valid in the context in which I used it.

In any case I don’t think I’m the one mountain/molehilling.

@LinearPoint havent read your post just kinda skimmed, I’ll get back to you after work.

I believe S~V~S and Michelle are mafia.

Yikes. Replies intext in glowy

Personally, I do not think she is bad. If she is she changed up her game alot. My town touchstone for Michelle was Anni; there she was evasive, avoided discussion or giving opinions. She was slippery, and had a "heh heh" feel to her that was absent in any of the town games I have seen her play. It is absent here.

I am kinda astounded that this is the most suspicious thing people are finding. That I made a word choice that was perhaps not the best word choice, and I'm getting raked over the coals for it now. the fact that you think I would faux banter or set up faux suspish with a teammate tells me you don't understand my game at all.

This post is such a stretch, especially from you, that I'm fairly sure you're town, too. Because, like me, I don't see you making up something like this Day One.

I still have to read Linear Points big post, and unless it's more of this ^^^, looks like I spent most of my catch up time on this absurdity.

Sorry to call your post absurd, you obvs put alot of work into it (and you know I would never think *you* are absurd), but name one game you've seen me act like this when I was bad?

@falcon45ca You want to see making mountains out of molehills? Take a look at this ^^

Yeah, I'm catching up now

[Guillotine]

Somif your solve is SVS and me then easy, lynch SvS then me, except of course if there are two scum which i firmly believe, the game will not end and then you vote out Wilgy and the game will end.m

I am going to explain this to you.

Because you're so good at Mafia and all.

You said S~V~S was bad. That was this afternoon.

Later at this afternoon, you said you would vote S~V~S "if the wagons remain like this."

If you are a civilian, you vote S~V~S and go on about your business. You didn't do that.

You are teammates.

Explain to me why I am wrong.

Because my focus at the time was Michelle whom i believed was scum and that if she was not then it is wilgy, im treating those as a difference check and as the cred hog that i am, i prefer a flip of a wolf i pushed than a flip of a wolf i was not responsible for pushing.

This doesn't even make sense and if the argument is the "wagon of three early" you are discounting Seanzie entirely.

This feels like I said previously, a forced perspective.

Seanzie does this allthe time

[Guillotine]

Game ends in 14 hours, if in 4 hours momentum has not changed, i will have no choice but to claim.

[DrWilgy]

Somif your solve is SVS and me then easy, lynch SvS then me, except of course if there are two scum which i firmly believe, the game will not end and then you vote out Wilgy and the game will end.m

I am going to explain this to you.

Because you're so good at Mafia and all.

You said S~V~S was bad. That was this afternoon.

Later at this afternoon, you said you would vote S~V~S "if the wagons remain like this."

If you are a civilian, you vote S~V~S and go on about your business. You didn't do that.

You are teammates.

Explain to me why I am wrong.

Because my focus at the time was Michelle whom i believed was scum and that if she was not then it is wilgy, im treating those as a difference check and as the cred hog that i am, i prefer a flip of a wolf i pushed than a flip of a wolf i was not responsible for pushing.

This doesn't even make sense and if the argument is the "wagon of three early" you are discounting Seanzie entirely.

This feels like I said previously, a forced perspective.

Seanzie does this allthe time

Alright and so do I? Very much a time where I'd chain games putting a 3rd vote down just to see how'd people interact around it.

Further, if it's NAI why is he discounted in the read? Where has your read on where's it's specifically wolfy for either me or Michelle to have been the 2nd and 3rd vote?

[DrWilgy]

Game ends in 14 hours, if in 4 hours momentum has not changed, i will have no choice but to claim.

me 2 fam

[DrWilgy]

blah, time for full catchup but I'm sleepy.

[Guillotine]

I don't see what people see about SVS so i will stay off.

To me reading Michelle posts actually seems more like baiting discussion than actually slipping something, she came back from work, started talking to people and trying to rile them up, unlike Guillotina who did nothing to start and start flailing when they get called out... I don't know the attentiveness of th people here but i'm pretty sure directly talking to people is more likely to create actual discussion then ignoring them. I won't give pointers since im a reactionary player myself but if you want to get people to talk about you it's much better to do something else than make the entire thread suspect you by saying something bland or generic

Dont tell me how to play when you have barely played.

[Guillotine]

Somif your solve is SVS and me then easy, lynch SvS then me, except of course if there are two scum which i firmly believe, the game will not end and then you vote out Wilgy and the game will end.m

I am going to explain this to you.

Because you're so good at Mafia and all.

You said S~V~S was bad. That was this afternoon.

Later at this afternoon, you said you would vote S~V~S "if the wagons remain like this."

If you are a civilian, you vote S~V~S and go on about your business. You didn't do that.

You are teammates.

Explain to me why I am wrong.

Because my focus at the time was Michelle whom i believed was scum and that if she was not then it is wilgy, im treating those as a difference check and as the cred hog that i am, i prefer a flip of a wolf i pushed than a flip of a wolf i was not responsible for pushing.

This doesn't even make sense and if the argument is the "wagon of three early" you are discounting Seanzie entirely.

This feels like I said previously, a forced perspective.

Seanzie does this allthe time

Alright and so do I? Very much a time where I'd chain games putting a 3rd vote down just to see how'd people interact around it.

Further, if it's NAI why is he discounted in the read? Where has your read on where's it's specifically wolfy for either me or Michelle to have been the 2nd and 3rd vote?

I never said im scum reading for being the 2nd or the 3rd.
This is why i think you are more likely to be scum than Michelle, because Michelle has read my content, she knows why she is being scum read. You on the other are still pretending not to know when ive been clear why i think you are scum if Michelle is not, you are still playing dumb and it infuriates to the point i wanna kill you with my own hands tonight, except i cant kill.

[DrWilgy]

Town

Michelle

Null

Seanzie
Cat

Scum

DrWilgy
SvS


Spicy read

LinearPoint could be whiteknighting me.

I get that Epi already pointed out how weird it is to have SvS in scum reads on this per the interactions between you and SvS as W/W, but in isolation this is just weird.

Your ONLY reference to SVS prior to this was:

Spoiler: show

I am not liking what I am reading from S~V~S so far.

This post is basically just meaningless fluff that doesn't even realistically contribute to anything.

Spoiler: show

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Pair that last post with this one and I think there is a solid argument that S~V~S is trying to comment on the setup while sidestepping other topics. This is doubly so since by the point of this second post the Guillotine and Michelle situation was starting to develop.

Spoiler: show

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Why would be 3 unbalanced?

With only 10 players? That’s almost a third of the players list?

His Solar System game had 11 players, 2 mafia. With fewer players more wolves seems unlikely?

This is rather a debatable point to get aggro about?

Then I found this post to also ping me a bit. I find it weird they drop the Guillotine suspicious read in there, but were not one of the people voting on Guillotine. Then they also drop a good read on MIchelle while (in my opinion) also shading them as potentially bussing Guillotine. Which I do think it is also just odd to bring up bussing this early into the game.

Spoiler: show

LP
Seanzie
Cat
Epi
SVS
MR
Michelle
Guillo

I get why Guillo, but why Michelle? I don’t associate snap votes with bad Michelle, do you think she’s bussing him?

This last one is probably just me being paranoid, but these few posts are reading to me as a wolf who is trying to go with the nice guy approach and trying to talk people down by being overly non-agressive.

Spoiler: show

Why would be 3 unbalanced?

With only 10 players? That’s almost a third of the players list?

His Solar System game had 11 players, 2 mafia. With fewer players more wolves seems unlikely?

This is rather a debatable point to get aggro about?

Did I put enough question marks in this ^^? Maybe I need a few more?

@DrWilgy mathematical balance is not my strong suit; I was working on the premise that he wouldn’t have more wolves than in a game with more players than this. Hopefully he chooses to tell us, but if not, not.

@falcon45ca nah

You’re reading too much into one word. I’ve noticed you tend to do this with me.

Do you think Michelle is town?

[VOTE: S~V~S] aubergine

@Michelle have you played with SVS before? If so, how many times approximately?

Yes, of course. Many times but I never counted.
Also I mix up in my head her meta with other sweet Syndicate voices so I have to read her from scratch each time.

Why?

Then SVS is scum because everyone that has played with you knows that you dont bus on day 1 ever, you are not a hellbusser. I would have understand the suspicion if they said i could be bussing you as i have a bussing meta, but not the other way around. You dont bus because you don't feel confident to survive as a wolf on your own, you rather be bussed.

So the read was strictly based on meta AND based on a direct dependency on Michelle from a singular interaction. This is not a good look. It feels like you felt the NEED to put SVS there rather than it being an actual read positioning.

[DrWilgy]

Somif your solve is SVS and me then easy, lynch SvS then me, except of course if there are two scum which i firmly believe, the game will not end and then you vote out Wilgy and the game will end.m

I am going to explain this to you.

Because you're so good at Mafia and all.

You said S~V~S was bad. That was this afternoon.

Later at this afternoon, you said you would vote S~V~S "if the wagons remain like this."

If you are a civilian, you vote S~V~S and go on about your business. You didn't do that.

You are teammates.

Explain to me why I am wrong.

Because my focus at the time was Michelle whom i believed was scum and that if she was not then it is wilgy, im treating those as a difference check and as the cred hog that i am, i prefer a flip of a wolf i pushed than a flip of a wolf i was not responsible for pushing.

This doesn't even make sense and if the argument is the "wagon of three early" you are discounting Seanzie entirely.

This feels like I said previously, a forced perspective.

Seanzie does this allthe time

Alright and so do I? Very much a time where I'd chain games putting a 3rd vote down just to see how'd people interact around it.

Further, if it's NAI why is he discounted in the read? Where has your read on where's it's specifically wolfy for either me or Michelle to have been the 2nd and 3rd vote?

I never said im scum reading for being the 2nd or the 3rd.
This is why i think you are more likely to be scum than Michelle, because Michelle has read my content, she knows why she is being scum read. You on the other are still pretending not to know when ive been clear why i think you are scum if Michelle is not, you are still playing dumb and it infuriates to the point i wanna kill you with my own hands tonight, except i cant kill.

Maybe, JUST maybe, you aren't being clear? is that somehow within the realm of possibility to you?

[DrWilgy]

Guillo's prolly town, he's swinging at anything he finds sus

Are we playing different games? Guillo's openly advised they are tunneling and they've been hyper fixated upon me/michelle while at the same time svs is scum but didn't say anything about that one?

[Guillotine]

Town

Michelle

Null

Seanzie
Cat

Scum

DrWilgy
SvS


Spicy read

LinearPoint could be whiteknighting me.

I get that Epi already pointed out how weird it is to have SvS in scum reads on this per the interactions between you and SvS as W/W, but in isolation this is just weird.

Your ONLY reference to SVS prior to this was:

Spoiler: show

I am not liking what I am reading from S~V~S so far.

This post is basically just meaningless fluff that doesn't even realistically contribute to anything.

Spoiler: show

How many mafia we have in this game?

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Pair that last post with this one and I think there is a solid argument that S~V~S is trying to comment on the setup while sidestepping other topics. This is doubly so since by the point of this second post the Guillotine and Michelle situation was starting to develop.

Spoiler: show

Why would be 3 unbalanced?

With only 10 players? That’s almost a third of the players list?

His Solar System game had 11 players, 2 mafia. With fewer players more wolves seems unlikely?

This is rather a debatable point to get aggro about?

Then I found this post to also ping me a bit. I find it weird they drop the Guillotine suspicious read in there, but were not one of the people voting on Guillotine. Then they also drop a good read on MIchelle while (in my opinion) also shading them as potentially bussing Guillotine. Which I do think it is also just odd to bring up bussing this early into the game.

Spoiler: show

LP
Seanzie
Cat
Epi
SVS
MR
Michelle
Guillo

I get why Guillo, but why Michelle? I don’t associate snap votes with bad Michelle, do you think she’s bussing him?

This last one is probably just me being paranoid, but these few posts are reading to me as a wolf who is trying to go with the nice guy approach and trying to talk people down by being overly non-agressive.

Spoiler: show

With only 10 players? That’s almost a third of the players list?

His Solar System game had 11 players, 2 mafia. With fewer players more wolves seems unlikely?

This is rather a debatable point to get aggro about?

Did I put enough question marks in this ^^? Maybe I need a few more?

@DrWilgy mathematical balance is not my strong suit; I was working on the premise that he wouldn’t have more wolves than in a game with more players than this. Hopefully he chooses to tell us, but if not, not.

@falcon45ca nah

You’re reading too much into one word. I’ve noticed you tend to do this with me.

Do you think Michelle is town?

[VOTE: S~V~S] aubergine

@Michelle have you played with SVS before? If so, how many times approximately?

Yes, of course. Many times but I never counted.
Also I mix up in my head her meta with other sweet Syndicate voices so I have to read her from scratch each time.

Why?

Then SVS is scum because everyone that has played with you knows that you dont bus on day 1 ever, you are not a hellbusser. I would have understand the suspicion if they said i could be bussing you as i have a bussing meta, but not the other way around. You dont bus because you don't feel confident to survive as a wolf on your own, you rather be bussed.

So the read was strictly based on meta AND based on a direct dependency on Michelle from a singular interaction. This is not a good look. It feels like you felt the NEED to put SVS there rather than it being an actual read positioning.

SvS is scum if michelle is not, same as you.

Oh also you were saying why Seanzie and not you earlier?

I know when Seanzie towntells, im not worried about him, you on the other hand…

[Guillotine]

I am going to explain this to you.

Because you're so good at Mafia and all.

You said S~V~S was bad. That was this afternoon.

Later at this afternoon, you said you would vote S~V~S "if the wagons remain like this."

If you are a civilian, you vote S~V~S and go on about your business. You didn't do that.

You are teammates.

Explain to me why I am wrong.

Because my focus at the time was Michelle whom i believed was scum and that if she was not then it is wilgy, im treating those as a difference check and as the cred hog that i am, i prefer a flip of a wolf i pushed than a flip of a wolf i was not responsible for pushing.

This doesn't even make sense and if the argument is the "wagon of three early" you are discounting Seanzie entirely.

This feels like I said previously, a forced perspective.

Seanzie does this allthe time

Alright and so do I? Very much a time where I'd chain games putting a 3rd vote down just to see how'd people interact around it.

Further, if it's NAI why is he discounted in the read? Where has your read on where's it's specifically wolfy for either me or Michelle to have been the 2nd and 3rd vote?

I never said im scum reading for being the 2nd or the 3rd.
This is why i think you are more likely to be scum than Michelle, because Michelle has read my content, she knows why she is being scum read. You on the other are still pretending not to know when ive been clear why i think you are scum if Michelle is not, you are still playing dumb and it infuriates to the point i wanna kill you with my own hands tonight, except i cant kill.

Maybe, JUST maybe, you aren't being clear? is that somehow within the realm of possibility to you?

No, i have been clear

[DrWilgy]

Town

Michelle

Null

Seanzie
Cat

Scum

DrWilgy
SvS


Spicy read

LinearPoint could be whiteknighting me.

I get that Epi already pointed out how weird it is to have SvS in scum reads on this per the interactions between you and SvS as W/W, but in isolation this is just weird.

Your ONLY reference to SVS prior to this was:

Spoiler: show

I am not liking what I am reading from S~V~S so far.

This post is basically just meaningless fluff that doesn't even realistically contribute to anything.

Spoiler: show

Well a post up there ^^ mentions that the “team” can start BTSC, so more than 1. Prolly 2. More than that would be unbalanced and Jay is all about balance.

Pair that last post with this one and I think there is a solid argument that S~V~S is trying to comment on the setup while sidestepping other topics. This is doubly so since by the point of this second post the Guillotine and Michelle situation was starting to develop.

Spoiler: show

With only 10 players? That’s almost a third of the players list?

His Solar System game had 11 players, 2 mafia. With fewer players more wolves seems unlikely?

This is rather a debatable point to get aggro about?

Then I found this post to also ping me a bit. I find it weird they drop the Guillotine suspicious read in there, but were not one of the people voting on Guillotine. Then they also drop a good read on MIchelle while (in my opinion) also shading them as potentially bussing Guillotine. Which I do think it is also just odd to bring up bussing this early into the game.

Spoiler: show

I get why Guillo, but why Michelle? I don’t associate snap votes with bad Michelle, do you think she’s bussing him?

This last one is probably just me being paranoid, but these few posts are reading to me as a wolf who is trying to go with the nice guy approach and trying to talk people down by being overly non-agressive.

Spoiler: show

Did I put enough question marks in this ^^? Maybe I need a few more?

@DrWilgy mathematical balance is not my strong suit; I was working on the premise that he wouldn’t have more wolves than in a game with more players than this. Hopefully he chooses to tell us, but if not, not.

@falcon45ca nah

You’re reading too much into one word. I’ve noticed you tend to do this with me.

Do you think Michelle is town?

[VOTE: S~V~S] aubergine

@Michelle have you played with SVS before? If so, how many times approximately?

Yes, of course. Many times but I never counted.
Also I mix up in my head her meta with other sweet Syndicate voices so I have to read her from scratch each time.

Why?

Then SVS is scum because everyone that has played with you knows that you dont bus on day 1 ever, you are not a hellbusser. I would have understand the suspicion if they said i could be bussing you as i have a bussing meta, but not the other way around. You dont bus because you don't feel confident to survive as a wolf on your own, you rather be bussed.

So the read was strictly based on meta AND based on a direct dependency on Michelle from a singular interaction. This is not a good look. It feels like you felt the NEED to put SVS there rather than it being an actual read positioning.

SvS is scum if michelle is not, same as you.

Oh also you were saying why Seanzie and not you earlier?

I know when Seanzie towntells, im not worried about him, you on the other hand…

'I've lined up 3 chops with little argument for the 3rd'

'I have tmi on Seanzie's 5 posts that shows they are town and it'd be easier to push against a voter of mine'

Next?

[DrWilgy]

Because my focus at the time was Michelle whom i believed was scum and that if she was not then it is wilgy, im treating those as a difference check and as the cred hog that i am, i prefer a flip of a wolf i pushed than a flip of a wolf i was not responsible for pushing.

This doesn't even make sense and if the argument is the "wagon of three early" you are discounting Seanzie entirely.

This feels like I said previously, a forced perspective.

Seanzie does this allthe time

Alright and so do I? Very much a time where I'd chain games putting a 3rd vote down just to see how'd people interact around it.

Further, if it's NAI why is he discounted in the read? Where has your read on where's it's specifically wolfy for either me or Michelle to have been the 2nd and 3rd vote?

I never said im scum reading for being the 2nd or the 3rd.
This is why i think you are more likely to be scum than Michelle, because Michelle has read my content, she knows why she is being scum read. You on the other are still pretending not to know when ive been clear why i think you are scum if Michelle is not, you are still playing dumb and it infuriates to the point i wanna kill you with my own hands tonight, except i cant kill.

Maybe, JUST maybe, you aren't being clear? is that somehow within the realm of possibility to you?

No, i have been clear

clearly wolfy

[Guillotine]

@Seanzie are you gonna play or what? Come play, do something, cat is playing more than you, imagine that

[Guillotine]

This doesn't even make sense and if the argument is the "wagon of three early" you are discounting Seanzie entirely.

This feels like I said previously, a forced perspective.

Seanzie does this allthe time

Alright and so do I? Very much a time where I'd chain games putting a 3rd vote down just to see how'd people interact around it.

Further, if it's NAI why is he discounted in the read? Where has your read on where's it's specifically wolfy for either me or Michelle to have been the 2nd and 3rd vote?

I never said im scum reading for being the 2nd or the 3rd.
This is why i think you are more likely to be scum than Michelle, because Michelle has read my content, she knows why she is being scum read. You on the other are still pretending not to know when ive been clear why i think you are scum if Michelle is not, you are still playing dumb and it infuriates to the point i wanna kill you with my own hands tonight, except i cant kill.

Maybe, JUST maybe, you aren't being clear? is that somehow within the realm of possibility to you?

No, i have been clear

clearly wolfy

Ok sure.

Say im mafia, who is my partner?

[Guillotine]

And just like that DrWilgy goes away from a real time convo with me.

Chicken lol

[Guillotine]

I as town read from you Guillo, like earlier, is conditioned by meta

Meta is no more than a crutch, not a meaning to make a read, because people can break it on purpose, if you look at it from distance.

This is not true for you by the ay, you are very polarized. So until i see that you are no longer polarized then i will not stop treating you like a polarized player, it is that simple.

[DrWilgy]

@Guillotine Are you currently scum reading Wilgy? I was mostly curious since Wilgy also had voted with Seanize at the same time Michelle was doing and I recall you mentioning that Wilgy was flip-floppy with their reading of you.

I'm thinking Wilgy looks a bit worse than Michelle in this situation. Mostly due to the fact Wilgy is more or less letting you just go at Michelle here when the same argument you are presenting also applies to Wilgy. There was also the point that Wilgy agreed with me on Town reading Michelle, whom I jotted down that Wilgy was scum reading early. And despite as of post #149 Wilgy moving over to Town reading Michelle, they have seemed content to allow you to just go after her freely, unquestioned.

What do you mean by this? Why would I interject for Michelle rather than try to solve between Guillo/Michelle as I observe their interactions. While I do think it's likely Michelle saw the same 'poopoo on the thread' that resulted in the vote that I did, I gave reasoning for it (at michelle's request) to which Michelle was in agreement with. I wouldn't be able to parse weather or not Michelle just took the reason I gave as their own in mimicry or not.

I feel as if you didn't read why I had Michelle in the read before posting this. I'd advise looking at that again. Michelle's equity, even early, was always in direct contrast to Guillo, the better I feel about Guillo the worse I feel about Michelle and the inverse. Both of them had reasons to be red in my first rainbow.

I asked Wilgy the question earlier about what they would read me and Falcon as if both SVS and you were Town. They were adamant that falcon would always be Town, even if it turns out they are currently leading a mischop, but were not willing to say I was Mafia or Town either way in that same scenario.


To me with what you were saying about Wilgy earlier and their answer to my question I think they might be scum hedging their bets a bit and trying not to get too in the way of anyone spearheading a vote.

Yes, because Falcon has extensive meta to reflect that their posting is town. It has nothing to do with any equity towards or against other players. I do not have that same read for you.

Outside of Michelle, do you have any other instances where I'm hedging as opposed to solving? I think 112 put it well in your recent game, 'is me hedging scum indicative? OR is it me parsing the data and moving reads around?'