It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia [END]

[Mongoose]

so your two options are: both juliets and I are scum and coordinated the claims, or both juliets and I are town and are telling the truth.

No. It's entirely possible that juliets is telling the truth and you are lying.

How would that fit with the matrix you posted then? If I were lying and juliets and I were not both scum, someone could have counter-claimed. Correct?

If I was the civ double voter and someone else claimed; I don’t think I’d out them. I’d let them take their chances at night instead of me.

What did you mean when you posted this, Mongoose

Okay let's say Clover, a civ, false role claimed my position. I'm old school and Do Not role claim. I'd let Clover get town cleared but let her be a big target for night actions instead of me.

So you are saying if I falsely claimed cop, and you were the cop you wouldn't claim and instead let me get night killed by the mafia, I think that's what you're saying anyway. But what does this have to do with Luna? She claimed a different role, double-voter. Are you saying if I falsely claimed cop you wouldn't claim the role that substantiates my cop claim and just go ahead and let me get NK's? That's what I thought you were saying earlier but the example confuses me a little.

linki

Yeah, I wrote that before coffee and didn't lay out enough facts with it. Let me write it using Luna as the example.

I was AWESTRUCK, frankly, that someone asked the doublevoter to reveal herself. We didn't know if the doublevoter had used his/her power at that time, and if anyone but Sloonei (I think it was him, I do not mean to impugn you if it wasn't), I would have had major league mafia vibes from them. Because it places that huge target on your back.

Now for the example: Let's say Luna was not the doublevoter and instead it was me. I would have not cross-claimed because a) it creates unnecessary chaos (and I am not a fan of chaos, you probably have all surmised); and b) I'll let her take her chances at night and see if I can skate through another night unscathed; and c) I get to retain those civ powers for a day when I really need it.

[thellama73]

Nova made up a bs read of me on page fucking one and not once has he doubted it. I mean get real. Civilians don't do that. Fuck I wish dunya was still here.

This is the main thing that wories me about Nova as well. I don't believe his claim that he suspects me for having a consistent read on him. That doesn't make sense to me. It feels like he decided to build a case on me first and went looking for evidence for it later. I also don't like his comment where he basically said "I won't get lynched as long as I am around to defend myself." That's overconfidence.

I agree with the overconfidence but is overconfidence AI or are you just saying you don't like it but it's NAI?

I don't know that the overconfidence says anything about his alignment, but I do find it troubling. I am personally not feeling confident at all right now, and have this nagging suspicion that either Mac or Sloonei has ben tricking us this whole time. This is why I am going to do my rereads as soon as I answer your qustions.

[juliets]

No. It's entirely possible that juliets is telling the truth and you are lying.

How would that fit with the matrix you posted then? If I were lying and juliets and I were not both scum, someone could have counter-claimed. Correct?

If I was the civ double voter and someone else claimed; I don’t think I’d out them. I’d let them take their chances at night instead of me.

What did you mean when you posted this, Mongoose

Okay let's say Clover, a civ, false role claimed my position. I'm old school and Do Not role claim. I'd let Clover get town cleared but let her be a big target for night actions instead of me.

So you are saying if I falsely claimed cop, and you were the cop you wouldn't claim and instead let me get night killed by the mafia, I think that's what you're saying anyway. But what does this have to do with Luna? She claimed a different role, double-voter. Are you saying if I falsely claimed cop you wouldn't claim the role that substantiates my cop claim and just go ahead and let me get NK's? That's what I thought you were saying earlier but the example confuses me a little.

linki

Yeah, I wrote that before coffee and didn't lay out enough facts with it. Let me write it using Luna as the example.

I was AWESTRUCK, frankly, that someone asked the doublevoter to reveal herself. We didn't know if the doublevoter had used his/her power at that time, and if anyone but Sloonei (I think it was him, I do not mean to impugn you if it wasn't), I would have had major league mafia vibes from them. Because it places that huge target on your back.

Now for the example: Let's say Luna was not the doublevoter and instead it was me. I would have not cross-claimed because a) it creates unnecessary chaos (and I am not a fan of chaos, you probably have all surmised); and b) I'll let her take her chances at night and see if I can skate through another night unscathed; and c) I get to retain those civ powers for a day when I really need it.

Ohhhhhh ok, I completely misinterpreted what you were saying but I totally see it now. Thank you!

[thellama73]

tl;dr version of those two text walls: Llama and Mongoose played Day 2 almost identically. They've both expressed vague soft sort-of-suspicion of each other but not for a second has either one seriously pursued the other as a candidate. Their interactions have been minimal, the most noteworthy exchange being llama setting mongoose up to explain her No Lynch vote. They both applied pressure to Luna by playing a sort of Devil's Advocate role against her. Neither one supported the Colin wagon. Llama didn't do much to defend him, but mongoose at least made a passing effort. Both of them were propping up Mac's case against nova throughout the day as well. Neither of them really engaged in the chaos that followed the Colin mislynch.

I'd like to know from @thellama73 what his current read is on Mongoose and if it's bad, what specifically he is suspicious of, using quotes if possible.

I can't answer this right now, but she is the first person I'm going to ISO. I will report back with findings. Gun to head, if I had to choose the two mafia members right now it would be Nova and Mongoose, but thta is subject to change.

[juliets]

tl;dr version of those two text walls: Llama and Mongoose played Day 2 almost identically. They've both expressed vague soft sort-of-suspicion of each other but not for a second has either one seriously pursued the other as a candidate. Their interactions have been minimal, the most noteworthy exchange being llama setting mongoose up to explain her No Lynch vote. They both applied pressure to Luna by playing a sort of Devil's Advocate role against her. Neither one supported the Colin wagon. Llama didn't do much to defend him, but mongoose at least made a passing effort. Both of them were propping up Mac's case against nova throughout the day as well. Neither of them really engaged in the chaos that followed the Colin mislynch.

I'd like to know from thellama73 what his current read is on Mongoose and if it's bad, what specifically he is suspicious of, using quotes if possible.

I can't answer this right now, but she is the first person I'm going to ISO. I will report back with findings. Gun to head, if I had to choose the two mafia members right now it would be Nova and Mongoose, but thta is subject to change.

Ok thanks llama I knew you were going to re-read everyone this morning so I will be happy to wait.

[Mongoose]

@Mongoose after you answer to whatever points you want to that Sloonei made can you give a read of llama and if you read him bad tell us why specifically you read him that way?

linki

Absolutely - but I got woken up early by someone I let sleep yesterday until 555pm. Can I please excuse myself for a bit? My head is blasting and typing anything is taking about 4x as long.

I was here all day yesterday and I don't really intend to repeat that today.

I will get to this but I need more sleep.

[juliets]

@Mongoose after you answer to whatever points you want to that Sloonei made can you give a read of llama and if you read him bad tell us why specifically you read him that way?

linki

Absolutely - but I got woken up early by someone I let sleep yesterday until 555pm. Can I please excuse myself for a bit? My head is blasting and typing anything is taking about 4x as long.

I was here all day yesterday and I don't really intend to repeat that today.

I will get to this but I need more sleep.

No problem, sleep away.

[thellama73]

Okay, here are my thoughts on Mongoose. First, some specific posts that stood out to me.

no but seriously, i really did feel mongoose's entry was a little more stiff than her previous two.

Do you blame me after the raucous first day I had in Gossip Girl? That was brutalizing.

You got a read on dunya or nova?

Not yet, but I will amend when I do. I've played with them recently, so I could see a cabal thinking "Let's put a little pressure on Mongoose - she will get defensive and act weird and then we can vote her out early." I could also see them just desperate to grab onto any inkling of a ping on Day 0/Day 1 like we all are.

linki - Calibrating my playstyle to more suit this new world of mafia seems not only sensible but prudent. I'd expect anyone to do the same after playing one short game and literally one day period of another. My old style, which you would be unfamiliar with, seems a little antiquated for this new mafia landscape. It's more different than I could have ever realized.

Calibrating one's playstyle seems inauthentic and manipulative to me. Wouldn't a civilian want to play consistently?

I've assigned a letter grade to everyone's early entries into the game. Below you will find our group report card:






Mongoose: C

Third time's the charm?

Mongoose's entry made early waves, and it's not difficult to see why. This entry post definitely stands out for being different in tone, but I don't know if the reasons behind that difference need to be suggestive of badness. I understand that Mongoose was just lynched on Day 1 of her first game back at the Syndicate in a long time. This post, and her response to the criticism against it, all seem like a player who is perhaps frustrated and trying to adjust to the changed environment. I believe her when she says she is "calibrating her playstyle to more suit this new world of mafia"; whether or not that means she's town, I do not know. I give her the benefit of doubt for now. Mongoose could contribute more in class.

Oof, I don’t like making a C and will vow to do better. I’m trying to get completely caught up by vote deadline, but it’s slow going. Can someone confirm that the vote deadline is around 630pm EST? I want to ensure my DST settings are correct.

Here again, there's an eagerness to please thta I don't associate with civilian behavior.

I townread you, Mongoose. But I hope you’re able to get back before the deadline and cast a more meaningful vote. No Lynches are stinky.

I’ve never even see that as an option before but I’m paralyzed with fear over picking the wrong pony. I will absolutely try to do just that.

In most circumstances, I read this kind of wishy-washy "oh, I don't want to make the wrong choice" post as bad. It is fairly consistent with Mongoose's personality, though.

@Lunalee you seem to be the closest thing to a consensus suspect right now. I’m not sure I see it, but I also don’t feel like I have enough evidence to call you a firm town read. Get in here and give us your thoughts on things please and thanks.

Also why aren’t you all voting?

Reason I'm not voting is because it is Thursday night, and I have until Saturday to decide who to vote for.

I am also surprised to be a consensus suspect. I don't see it either, but maybe I should catch up first.

I don’t care what time it is or how long we have left. Votes on the poll are data and visible action. They help. Everyone should put their votes on the player they most suspect at any time.

Based on this, I’ll go ahead and vote early too.[VOTE: luna] aubergine

You're voting me because I haven't voted yet? I very frequently wait until day of EOD to cast my vote.

That’s not why I’m voting you at all! It’s subject to change by the way. I want to do what Sloonei says and be more of an active participant this day.

Why do you care what Sloonei wants you to do?

Overall points against Mongoose:
1. Blendy, noncommittal posting.
2. Weak reads.
3. No real cases.
4. Overeagerness to please.
5. A tendency to play defense rather than offense.

Overall points in Mongoose's favor:
1. She has a fairly breezy style and intense cases would be out of character for her.
2. I know her to be telling the truth about being busy. I believe her to be telling the truth about the No Lynch vote.

It's a difficult read because many of the things that naturally characterize her playstyle are things I always find suspicious, for example the posts which I literally can't understand because of the way that they're worded, as Juliets just pointed out. However, on balance, I see more evidence against her than for her, so I'm happy to keep her in the "probably mafia" camp.

[Sloonei]

To refresh: the only possible setups in the matrix with a cop are mafia roleblocker and 1-shot town doublevoter, or all vanilla. If it's the latter, then a mafia member could easily claim doublevoter because they know they can't be counter-claimed. If it's the former then Luna could easily be telling the truth. But there's absolutely no way for us to know right now.

so your two options are: both juliets and I are scum and coordinated the claims, or both juliets and I are town and are telling the truth.

No. It's entirely possible that juliets is telling the truth and you are lying.

How would that fit with the matrix you posted then? If I were lying and juliets and I were not both scum, someone could have counter-claimed. Correct?

If I was the civ double voter and someone else claimed; I don’t think I’d out them. I’d let them take their chances at night instead of me.

What did you mean when you posted this, Mongoose

Okay let's say Clover, a civ, false role claimed my position. I'm old school and Do Not role claim. I'd let Clover get town cleared but let her be a big target for night actions instead of me.

But she’s not town.

[novaselinenever]

Nova made up a bs read of me on page fucking one and not once has he doubted it. I mean get real. Civilians don't do that. Fuck I wish dunya was still here.

This is the main thing that wories me about Nova as well. I don't believe his claim that he suspects me for having a consistent read on him. That doesn't make sense to me. It feels like he decided to build a case on me first and went looking for evidence for it later. .I also don't like his comment where he basically said "I won't get lynched as long as I am around to defend myself." That's overconfidence.

That isn't what pinged me now, is it? Your read isn't really consistent since you had me had bad, then started feeling better about me, then neutral and now bad I believe. What was unnaturally consistent is you keeping a negative ping due to my entry "Hi, I'm Nova and tired of losing" that you never substantiated. I have close to 300 posts, and a whole lot of content to analyze and get a read on. It feels like you never tried to figure me out and you're using that ping to justify keeping me at a neutral read to have your options open. It's pretty fucking obvious seeing your quotes in the spoiler below of most of your mentions of me.

Yeah, nope. I'm pretty sure Sloonei asked me if I read you bad because of it, and answered no. I had also before this shared some thoughts about you that I didn't feel great about but they were mostly tinfoily.

Again with "I don't like *insert random quote*". Substantiate. This is the same as you not liking me saying I'm tired of losing. This is actually what feels like someone deciding to build a case on someone and going to look for evidence later. It's weak, ad bland accusation. I mean how is overconfidence a necessarily bad thing? It's a cheap accusation that'll just go back to "call it a gut read" or maybe "tone" .

Spoiler: show

novaselinenever - I was pinged by her post expressing frustration over not having won in a while. Could be the result of being given a baddie role and feeling outnumbered.

It's a tone thing. Mafia tend to be more defensive and feel more vulnerable. I would expect fear or anxiety over losing, even if said in jest, more from a mafia member than a civilian.

I have not felt too good about Nova from the beginning, but I don't have very much concrete to go on.

Nova: Pinged me early on, but has been a good participant with useful contributions lately.

[novaselinenever]

No stahp. Fucking stahp.

Wait til I get back to my laptop. I am going to utterly eviscerate you both.

Fake news.

[Sloonei]

I just want you all to know that I don't care that Sloonei reconsidered his position I still firmly believe that he and Nova are Mafia.

Also goodnight.

If you’re civ, this is the kind of attitude that loses games.

I just did a shit ton of shit and it lead me to believe mongoose and llama are bad. Care to talk about it?

[novaselinenever]

I just want you all to know that I don't care that Sloonei reconsidered his position I still firmly believe that he and Nova are Mafia.

Also goodnight.

If you’re civ, this is the kind of attitude that loses games.

I just did a shit ton of shit and it lead me to believe mongoose and llama are bad. Care to talk about it?

But you suspected him, you can't be Town.

[Sloonei]

I just want you all to know that I don't care that Sloonei reconsidered his position I still firmly believe that he and Nova are Mafia.

Also goodnight.

If you’re civ, this is the kind of attitude that loses games.

I just did a shit ton of shit and it lead me to believe mongoose and llama are bad. Care to talk about it?

But you suspected him, you can't be Town.

Who’s bad?

[novaselinenever]

I just want you all to know that I don't care that Sloonei reconsidered his position I still firmly believe that he and Nova are Mafia.

Also goodnight.

If you’re civ, this is the kind of attitude that loses games.

I just did a shit ton of shit and it lead me to believe mongoose and llama are bad. Care to talk about it?

But you suspected him, you can't be Town.

Who’s bad?

I still have my PoE of 3. I haven't really leaned towards a duo but it's either Mongoose/Mac or Mongoose/Llama. I don't see Llama/Mac.

[novaselinenever]

Mac's refusal to consider anything else is rubbing me wrong. This ain't about reconsidering a read on 1 person who I can accept if one is in a tunnel, but rather a whole team.

[novaselinenever]

His outburst with Sloonei and me double-teaming him was all right though lol. He got crushed.

[thellama73]

Thoughts on Sloonei:

Sweet Dee is sick of town’s losing streak too. We’re gonna correct it this game, gang. Since nobody’s around to yell any louder than me right now, I’m gonna put myself in charge.

Votes are changeable, as they always are. There is no reason not to put a vote on the poll as soon as possible. We’ve even been given a placeholder option if folks are uncomfortable leaving a dangling vote in the poll. My suggestion is that everybody votes right away. Votes are action, and action is good for town, especially in the early stages of a game. If you don’t vote, you don’t care that Jay is dead.

I voted for Colin because his entry looked like a stiff attempt to be casual and loose.

This reads authentic to me.

Hey llama are you bad?

Only civilians ask this question. I know, because I invented this question.

Points against Sloonei:
1. He misread Juliets and Colin early and was forced to back away frm Juliets after her claim. He then participated in a Colin lynch.
2. He backed away from his own plan about the Luna/Colin lynch, making someone else be the deciding vote.

Points for Sloonei:
1. He has ben very active, very aggressive, not just in making cases but in driving conversation.
2. There was almost nothing in his ISO that stood out to me as inconsistent. Lots of fluid suspicions, lots of calling people out, mainly to get responses.

I can't see a case for Sloonei being bad. I just don't see it. Mislynches and misreads are common among civilians. He misread juliets and Colin just like I misread Luna and Colin, and now he is misreading me. I don't see a scenario in which that makes him bad, however.

[Sloonei]

Mac's refusal to consider anything else is rubbing me wrong. This ain't about reconsidering a read on 1 person who I can accept if one is in a tunnel, but rather a whole team.

I’d be more concerned if I didn’t just watch him and Epi do this to each other in Community.

[Sloonei]

Thoughts on Sloonei:

Sweet Dee is sick of town’s losing streak too. We’re gonna correct it this game, gang. Since nobody’s around to yell any louder than me right now, I’m gonna put myself in charge.

Votes are changeable, as they always are. There is no reason not to put a vote on the poll as soon as possible. We’ve even been given a placeholder option if folks are uncomfortable leaving a dangling vote in the poll. My suggestion is that everybody votes right away. Votes are action, and action is good for town, especially in the early stages of a game. If you don’t vote, you don’t care that Jay is dead.

I voted for Colin because his entry looked like a stiff attempt to be casual and loose.

This reads authentic to me.

Hey llama are you bad?

Only civilians ask this question. I know, because I invented this question.

Points against Sloonei:
1. He misread Juliets and Colin early and was forced to back away frm Juliets after her claim. He then participated in a Colin lynch.
2. He backed away from his own plan about the Luna/Colin lynch, making someone else be the deciding vote.

Points for Sloonei:
1. He has ben very active, very aggressive, not just in making cases but in driving conversation.
2. There was almost nothing in his ISO that stood out to me as inconsistent. Lots of fluid suspicions, lots of calling people out, mainly to get responses.

I can't see a case for Sloonei being bad. I just don't see it. Mislynches and misreads are common among civilians. He misread juliets and Colin just like I misread Luna and Colin, and now he is misreading me. I don't see a scenario in which that makes him bad, however.

How do you explain my behavior from end of Day 2/start of Night 2?

[juliets]

Okay, here are my thoughts on Mongoose. First, some specific posts that stood out to me.

no but seriously, i really did feel mongoose's entry was a little more stiff than her previous two.

Do you blame me after the raucous first day I had in Gossip Girl? That was brutalizing.

You got a read on dunya or nova?

Not yet, but I will amend when I do. I've played with them recently, so I could see a cabal thinking "Let's put a little pressure on Mongoose - she will get defensive and act weird and then we can vote her out early." I could also see them just desperate to grab onto any inkling of a ping on Day 0/Day 1 like we all are.

linki - Calibrating my playstyle to more suit this new world of mafia seems not only sensible but prudent. I'd expect anyone to do the same after playing one short game and literally one day period of another. My old style, which you would be unfamiliar with, seems a little antiquated for this new mafia landscape. It's more different than I could have ever realized.

Calibrating one's playstyle seems inauthentic and manipulative to me. Wouldn't a civilian want to play consistently?

I've assigned a letter grade to everyone's early entries into the game. Below you will find our group report card:






Mongoose: C

Third time's the charm?

Mongoose's entry made early waves, and it's not difficult to see why. This entry post definitely stands out for being different in tone, but I don't know if the reasons behind that difference need to be suggestive of badness. I understand that Mongoose was just lynched on Day 1 of her first game back at the Syndicate in a long time. This post, and her response to the criticism against it, all seem like a player who is perhaps frustrated and trying to adjust to the changed environment. I believe her when she says she is "calibrating her playstyle to more suit this new world of mafia"; whether or not that means she's town, I do not know. I give her the benefit of doubt for now. Mongoose could contribute more in class.

Oof, I don’t like making a C and will vow to do better. I’m trying to get completely caught up by vote deadline, but it’s slow going. Can someone confirm that the vote deadline is around 630pm EST? I want to ensure my DST settings are correct.

Here again, there's an eagerness to please thta I don't associate with civilian behavior.

I townread you, Mongoose. But I hope you’re able to get back before the deadline and cast a more meaningful vote. No Lynches are stinky.

I’ve never even see that as an option before but I’m paralyzed with fear over picking the wrong pony. I will absolutely try to do just that.

In most circumstances, I read this kind of wishy-washy "oh, I don't want to make the wrong choice" post as bad. It is fairly consistent with Mongoose's personality, though.

@Lunalee you seem to be the closest thing to a consensus suspect right now. I’m not sure I see it, but I also don’t feel like I have enough evidence to call you a firm town read. Get in here and give us your thoughts on things please and thanks.

Also why aren’t you all voting?

Reason I'm not voting is because it is Thursday night, and I have until Saturday to decide who to vote for.

I am also surprised to be a consensus suspect. I don't see it either, but maybe I should catch up first.

I don’t care what time it is or how long we have left. Votes on the poll are data and visible action. They help. Everyone should put their votes on the player they most suspect at any time.

Based on this, I’ll go ahead and vote early too.[VOTE: luna] aubergine

You're voting me because I haven't voted yet? I very frequently wait until day of EOD to cast my vote.

That’s not why I’m voting you at all! It’s subject to change by the way. I want to do what Sloonei says and be more of an active participant this day.

Why do you care what Sloonei wants you to do?

Overall points against Mongoose:
1. Blendy, noncommittal posting.
2. Weak reads.
3. No real cases.
4. Overeagerness to please.
5. A tendency to play defense rather than offense.

Overall points in Mongoose's favor:
1. She has a fairly breezy style and intense cases would be out of character for her.
2. I know her to be telling the truth about being busy. I believe her to be telling the truth about the No Lynch vote.

It's a difficult read because many of the things that naturally characterize her playstyle are things I always find suspicious, for example the posts which I literally can't understand because of the way that they're worded, as Juliets just pointed out. However, on balance, I see more evidence against her than for her, so I'm happy to keep her in the "probably mafia" camp.

Maybe I'm mis-reading what you're saying in your conclusion but doesn't number 1. in points in her favor negate 1., 2., and 3. of the points against her?

[novaselinenever]

Mac's refusal to consider anything else is rubbing me wrong. This ain't about reconsidering a read on 1 person who I can accept if one is in a tunnel, but rather a whole team.

I’d be more concerned if I didn’t just watch him and Epi do this to each other in Community.

You don't think he'd learn from his ways? Also I was following that game, and there were moments where he showed doubts. I recall him asking Epi to work with him and tell him who's bad. Epi said Quin.

[juliets]

Mac's refusal to consider anything else is rubbing me wrong. This ain't about reconsidering a read on 1 person who I can accept if one is in a tunnel, but rather a whole team.

I’d be more concerned if I didn’t just watch him and Epi do this to each other in Community.

Tell me about that. What did they do?

[novaselinenever]

The number 2 point in favor of Mongoose is pretty NAI. I mean you can be bad and busy, the same as you can be good and busy. Being truthful about your rl is pretty standard. I know I've been both before.

Same about the no-lynch vote. Her saying the truth there has no bearing on her alignment especially since you're not using "voted no lynch" as a point against her.

[Sloonei]

Mac's refusal to consider anything else is rubbing me wrong. This ain't about reconsidering a read on 1 person who I can accept if one is in a tunnel, but rather a whole team.

I’d be more concerned if I didn’t just watch him and Epi do this to each other in Community.

You don't think he'd learn from his ways? Also I was following that game, and there were moments where he showed doubts. I recall him asking Epi to work with him and tell him who's bad. Epi said Quin.

Maybe. Maybe not. His frustration with our “double teaming” of him last night read genuine.

[thellama73]

The number 2 point in favor of Mongoose is pretty NAI. I mean you can be bad and busy, the same as you can be good and busy. Being truthful about your rl is pretty standard. I know I've been both before.

Same about the no-lynch vote. Her saying the truth there has no bearing on her alignment especially since you're not using "voted no lynch" as a point against her.

Agreed, which is why I don't think the evidence for her being good is very strong.

[thellama73]

How do you explain my behavior from end of Day 2/start of Night 2?

I don't think it requires much explanation. You read like a civilian sincerely baddie hunting, which is what I would expect.

[Sloonei]

Mac's refusal to consider anything else is rubbing me wrong. This ain't about reconsidering a read on 1 person who I can accept if one is in a tunnel, but rather a whole team.

I’d be more concerned if I didn’t just watch him and Epi do this to each other in Community.

Tell me about that. What did they do?

They were both town, and the day before MYLO the two of them dominated the thread with arguments that the other was bad. Epi was lynched, town lost the next day.

[thellama73]

Maybe I'm mis-reading what you're saying in your conclusion but doesn't number 1. in points in her favor negate 1., 2., and 3. of the points against her?

No. It's a consideration thta has to be weighed against those points, but like Belshazzar, it's been weighed in the balance and found wanting.

[Sloonei]

How do you explain my behavior from end of Day 2/start of Night 2?

I don't think it requires much explanation. You read like a civilian sincerely baddie hunting, which is what I would expect.

I’d appreciate an explanation.

[thellama73]

How do you explain my behavior from end of Day 2/start of Night 2?

I don't think it requires much explanation. You read like a civilian sincerely baddie hunting, which is what I would expect.

I’d appreciate an explanation.

I don't understand what you are asking. What part of your behavior do you believe requires explanation?

[Sloonei]

How do you explain my behavior from end of Day 2/start of Night 2?

I don't think it requires much explanation. You read like a civilian sincerely baddie hunting, which is what I would expect.

I’d appreciate an explanation.

I don't understand what you are asking. What part of your behavior do you believe requires explanation?

The part that others suspect me for. Why did I change my vote to colin? You said that my backing out of the plan was a bad look. Why? And why do I still get a town read after that?

[juliets]

[mention]thellama73[/mention] one more question about Mongoose. I see her hesitance giving bad reads as a product of her not being used to reads day 1 in a game (it used to not be as prevalent as it is now) and her hesitance to condemn people. My experience with her in discord is she would rather not do anything to upset another person and will many times shift the conversation away from controversy that might cause bad feelings. I understand that she is excellent at her job which at times requires her to be adversarial but I see that as a role she plays in life. Does that logic I have about her hesitating to give bad reads not hold up for you? I mean I acknowledge I could be utterly wrong.

linki x a lot

[thellama73]

I don't have much to add to my earlier ISO of Mac's case against NOva, because the bulk of his posts have been those that attack Nova.

Nobody knows who or what to lynch. So let's lynch MP. Easy done.

I actually like this move. It's what I always argue for (The Apollo Doctrine) and arguing for it has gotten me killed a bunch of times.

Points in against Mac:
1. Failure to really contribute except in the most narow and bullheaded of ways.

Points in favor of Mac:
2. Being narrow and bullheaded is what I expect from Mac as a civilian.
2. The energy required to fake that level of hostility would be superhuman.

I believe Mac to be civilian. I still have to reread Nova, but if my reads are correct so far, he has to be bad by process of elimination.


linki: jesus christ you people make it hard to do ISO reads when you ask me a new question every ten seconds.

[thellama73]

How do you explain my behavior from end of Day 2/start of Night 2?

I don't think it requires much explanation. You read like a civilian sincerely baddie hunting, which is what I would expect.

I’d appreciate an explanation.

I don't understand what you are asking. What part of your behavior do you believe requires explanation?

The part that others suspect me for. Why did I change my vote to colin? You said that my backing out of the plan was a bad look. Why? And why do I still get a town read after that?

Why did oyu change your vote? I don't know. You tell me.
Why was backing out of the plana bad look? Because, as Mac said, the plan would Civ-confirm Luna, which would not benefit the mafia. You said you supported the plan, so why not commit to it?
Why do you still get a town cred? Because you are playing like town, and one inconsistency isn't enough to make me throw out your whole game. As you may have noticed, I am weighing up points I believe to be in various players' favor, and also the things thta make them look bad. Everyone has both, but not everyone is bad, clearly.

[thellama73]

@thellama73 one more question about Mongoose. I see her hesitance giving bad reads as a product of her not being used to reads day 1 in a game (it used to not be as prevalent as it is now) and her hesitance to condemn people. My experience with her in discord is she would rather not do anything to upset another person and will many times shift the conversation away from controversy that might cause bad feelings. I understand that she is excellent at her job which at times requires her to be adversarial but I see that as a role she plays in life. Does that logic I have about her hesitating to give bad reads not hold up for you? I mean I acknowledge I could be utterly wrong.

linki x a lot

Yes, that is generally her personality, but it also happens to be a playstyle that is very helpful to the mafia. Being noncommittal doesn't help the civs win. Being eager to please is something mafia members do, because they tend to be hyper-aware of the threat of lynching. I guess what I would say is her play so far has ben consistent with her being a mafia member in a way thta I don't think Mac or Sloonei's has been, and if she can use her natural personality as a cover for that, so much the better for her. Who do you think the two mafia members are?

[novaselinenever]

How do you explain my behavior from end of Day 2/start of Night 2?

I don't think it requires much explanation. You read like a civilian sincerely baddie hunting, which is what I would expect.

I’d appreciate an explanation.

I don't understand what you are asking. What part of your behavior do you believe requires explanation?

The part that others suspect me for. Why did I change my vote to colin? You said that my backing out of the plan was a bad look. Why? And why do I still get a town read after that?

Why was backing out of the plana bad look? Because, as Mac said, the plan would Civ-confirm Luna, which would not benefit the mafia. You said you supported the plan, so why not commit to it?

I have a huge problem with this lol. This "civ-confirmed" is absolute bollocks, and its threats to the Mafia have been greatly exaggerated.

Why would a Mafioso have a problem with a plan that is getting him a mislynch either way, and in the off chance (only 50%) that a civ gets confirmed through it, they can just kill them (no protectors)? Not only that, it'll burn the only remaining power role shot civvies would have.

[novaselinenever]

Juliets, where are you at currently?

[novaselinenever]

I hope you ain't buying what Mac's selling.

[Sloonei]

Yeah I don’t like llama’s handling of this issue.

[juliets]

thellama73 one more question about Mongoose. I see her hesitance giving bad reads as a product of her not being used to reads day 1 in a game (it used to not be as prevalent as it is now) and her hesitance to condemn people. My experience with her in discord is she would rather not do anything to upset another person and will many times shift the conversation away from controversy that might cause bad feelings. I understand that she is excellent at her job which at times requires her to be adversarial but I see that as a role she plays in life. Does that logic I have about her hesitating to give bad reads not hold up for you? I mean I acknowledge I could be utterly wrong.

linki x a lot

Yes, that is generally her personality, but it also happens to be a playstyle that is very helpful to the mafia. Being noncommittal doesn't help the civs win. Being eager to please is something mafia members do, because they tend to be hyper-aware of the threat of lynching. I guess what I would say is her play so far has ben consistent with her being a mafia member in a way thta I don't think Mac or Sloonei's has been, and if she can use her natural personality as a cover for that, so much the better for her. Who do you think the two mafia members are?

I haven't done my re-read yet so I'll hold until I've done it.

[juliets]

Juliets, where are you at currently?

On hold until I've re-read some people.

[Sloonei]

Yeah I don’t like llama’s handling of this issue.

To elaborate: the main (only) reason that I’m a suspect is my handling of the luna plan yesterday. Llama brushed over this in his ISO, giving it an arbitrary nod as “bad”, but didn’t have anything else ro say about it. He came out with a town read but doesn’t really address the most controversial moment in my ISO. If he’s mafia he has no incentive to actually come to my defense, he just needs to put the work in to justify a town read on me tomorrow.

When I pressed him on the issue, he kind of just reiterated the basic take on it: “it was a bad look but it doesn’t outweigh the rest of your posts.”

No elaboration on why its bad. No attempted justification of why a civilian would act that way. Llama doesn’t care about this read.

[juliets]

I hope you ain't buying what Mac's selling.

I have to re-read Mac's cases. On the one hand, I'm still having a hard time grasping how Sloonei could be afraid his emotions would get away from him. It's not so much that he backed away from the plan but the reason he gave. On the other hand llama's assertion that one inconsistency does not a baddie make rings somewhat true. I have read you as civ ever since you had me you and dunya do that exercise where we each selected someone and saw who was left, though two of the people we had left turned out to be civ, it was a novel approach and I'm not sure a baddie have thrown that out. I do need to re-read you though, especially your case on Mac.

So, the bottom line is I've got a lot of reading to do.

oh linki with Sloonei, interesting point about llama

[Sloonei]

I hope you ain't buying what Mac's selling.

I have to re-read Mac's cases. On the one hand, I'm still having a hard time grasping how Sloonei could be afraid his emotions would get away from him. It's not so much that he backed away from the plan but the reason he gave. On the other hand llama's assertion that one inconsistency does not a baddie make rings somewhat true. I have read you as civ ever since you had me you and dunya do that exercise where we each selected someone and saw who was left, though two of the people we had left turned out to be civ, it was a novel approach and I'm not sure a baddie have thrown that out. I do need to re-read you though, especially your case on Mac.

So, the bottom line is I've got a lot of reading to do.

oh linki with Sloonei, interesting point about llama

I cited an example from Mountain Mafia where I did something along similar lines. There are plenty of other examples of me changing my vote on impulse at the last minute. If I was the one who held the responsibility for carrying out the plan yesterday, there would have been 10 thousand thoughts running through my head, second and third guesses, reconsideration of all my reads condensed into 5 minutes of panic, especially when I’m putting a soft town read with a potential power role at risk. I don’t trust myself not to flinch there.

[thellama73]

Yeah I don’t like llama’s handling of this issue.

To elaborate: the main (only) reason that I’m a suspect is my handling of the luna plan yesterday. Llama brushed over this in his ISO, giving it an arbitrary nod as “bad”, but didn’t have anything else ro say about it. He came out with a town read but doesn’t really address the most controversial moment in my ISO. If he’s mafia he has no incentive to actually come to my defense, he just needs to put the work in to justify a town read on me tomorrow.

When I pressed him on the issue, he kind of just reiterated the basic take on it: “it was a bad look but it doesn’t outweigh the rest of your posts.”

No elaboration on why its bad. No attempted justification of why a civilian would act that way. Llama doesn’t care about this read.

I don't care about the read because I'm confident you're civilian. You misunderstand my analysis. I went through your posts looking for reasons to think you might be bad, and that was the only thing I could come up with, really. I didn't find it convincing, but I put it in the bad column since Mac keeps talking about it. I don't actually think it makes you look bad.

[juliets]

I hope you ain't buying what Mac's selling.

I have to re-read Mac's cases. On the one hand, I'm still having a hard time grasping how Sloonei could be afraid his emotions would get away from him. It's not so much that he backed away from the plan but the reason he gave. On the other hand llama's assertion that one inconsistency does not a baddie make rings somewhat true. I have read you as civ ever since you had me you and dunya do that exercise where we each selected someone and saw who was left, though two of the people we had left turned out to be civ, it was a novel approach and I'm not sure a baddie have thrown that out. I do need to re-read you though, especially your case on Mac.

So, the bottom line is I've got a lot of reading to do.

oh linki with Sloonei, interesting point about llama

I cited an example from Mountain Mafia where I did something along similar lines. There are plenty of other examples of me changing my vote on impulse at the last minute. If I was the one who held the responsibility for carrying out the plan yesterday, there would have been 10 thousand thoughts running through my head, second and third guesses, reconsideration of all my reads condensed into 5 minutes of panic, especially when I’m putting a soft town read with a potential power role at risk. I don’t trust myself not to flinch there.

Sorry sloonei I missed the post where you cited an example. I'll be sure to go back and read it. I just don't think of you as ever panicky in the least so maybe seeing another example will help me with that.

[thellama73]

Okay, so after rereading Nova, I am more convinced than ever that the Mafia team consists of him and Mongoose. I don't believe his initial ping on me was genuine. I don't think his case on Mac was genuine either.
So, I looked at his interactions with Mongoose to see if I can see them as teammates. Here they are (not all of them. I left out some repetitive rainbow lists for brevity's sake).

Third time's the charm?

Appeal to history? Appeal to emotions?

Not a good look madam

This comes right after saying "I'm tired of losing", so a bit hypocritical.

Really liked her Mongoose stuff early on, and the later's response read to me like some appeal to emotions lol. I'm not sure I have the heart to go through with a lynch on her though, I'd feel really bad especially with her post about contemplating changing her play style.

I'm soft like that.

I'd like to hear more from Mongoose, so I'll wait for her to catch up

Also let's not even get to that point

I’ve got no desire to go there yet. How do you feel about everybody?

I have a reason to townread yourself, Dunya and Luna. I have nothing on MP, and I still await his promised arrival.

I have no reason to townread Colin, Sprit, Juliet, Mongoose and Mac. I feel the worse about the last 3 and would see myself lynching there.

that doesn't make me feel any better since i checked your iso for mentions of mongoose and you never indicated these "suspicions" that echoed luna's before either.

I'm pretty sure in my first 5 posts, I showed suspicions of Mongoose. Iso better.

quite difficult. if you suspect luna, why does her scum reading mongoose make you townread her? mongoose is not someone you've shown any inclination to lynch. i've tried a few times to get that lynch going, even this afternoon, and you didn't even comment on it. if you had those suspicions, why wouldn't you have.

my point is that i don't believe anything you're saying.

When did I suspect Luna lol? I've made some observations about some of her stuff, but I've never branded her a suspect or voted her. I also made observation about some of your stuff and some of Sloonei's stuff, yet you're saying that I suspect both of you.

I find it funny that you're grasping at the mongoose stuff yet ignoring the other reasons I town read her. Her suspicions of mongoose make me townread her because I vibe with her thoughts. They echo mine which makes me believe their genuine. That post of her is something I had in my head almost word for word. That's why I townread her for it. I can only one person, and the person I want lynched the most is Mac, that's what I'm working on.

Suit yourself.

sloonei, maybe you missed my previous post. what about mongoose is town to you?

Sincerity. While I don’t think she’s given a ton of reads, she has been an open and willing participant in conversations whenever she’s been around. I don’t feel like she’s hiding.

But she hasn’t shared many reads.

I thought I had.

I feel Sloonei, Mac and Juliets are town.
Dunya and nova probably town
Colin is on border of town
Luna eep
MP and sprityo ??

Linki
Running out of time

Who do you want to lynch if no lynch isn't an option?

Mongoose, you're killing me. Back to no lynch after being confronted?

Mongoose!

That's a PoE of 4 in that scenario,

Mac
Luna
Mongoose
MP

Without re-reading, this is where I'm at currently. I think it might very change drastically so I'll go to the lab

ColinIsCool - good
dunya - good
juliets - good
Lunalee - good
M Plus 7 - good
MacDougall - bad
Mongoose - bad
novaselinenever - great
Sloonei - great

I don't know why but the first thing that came to my mind for reconsideration is my read on Luna.

Yes let’s discuss

Let's! I'm yet to hear what makes you feel uneasy about her outside of being unable to read her.

Who is left in the pool that I can lock? Is Mac available? Since Juliets and Sloonei were taken, I’ll pick him.

Only the cool kids can lock someone

You know, I sort of think nova stood up to Mac's suspicions pretty well. Instead of conceding to Mac's questioning, or changing his opinions to get on Mac's side, he dug his feet in hard, and fired back with every reason to do so. I'm just not convinced he's scum because of it.

That’s a fair point. (Nova is my next reddish pick after Luna, so I’m following this along closely as well)

Is that so? This is the first time I'm hearing of it.

He has a jokey, minor ping on Mongoose based on her first post. Then he says he feels good about her. Then he consistently reads her as bad the rest of the game. But looking at his actual conversations with her rather than about her, they are much more lighthearted and congenial when contrasted with the way he treats his other suspects, namely Mac. I think they are on a team together, and one of them will get my vote tomorrow.

[thellama73]

Now I'm going out for a while. I'll respond to any further questions when I get back.

[Sloonei]

I also like nova’s points about the anti-mafia value of the plan being exaggerated. It worked out well for the civilians in that luna is now clear, but that was absolutely not a guarantee. It wasn’t even a guarantee that she had used her role, so we could have just lynched her outright and lost her power without it ever being touched. Having luna cleared is an advantage, but not so great an advantage that Mafia is gonna feel the need to risk their safety to prevent it. They only need one more mislynch to win the game, and there are other scapegoats to pin that on.

Now factor in that I was the safest non-confirmed town at the deadline yesterday. All I need to do if I’m bad is watch that lynch go through. I don’t give a shit if luna is cleared or not because I’m in absolutely no danger, especially if I facilitate the move that helps clear her. Either she gets lynched, or Colin does. I’m happy either way. The only thought running through my head is “I wonder which one it will be.” I’ve got no incentive to back away from that.

Hella linki