[Game Over] Better Off Ted

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall I finished nutella's ISO and she was not wishy-washy in Day 1 but she came in and voted pretty quickly citing that she was busy. I was also busy at that time, part of it being the other game and my read is that's part of what was making her so busy. That is one convoluted sentence. Anyway, I'm not ready to call her bad but as I said before, she does not stand out to me as good as much as Dragomir.

Thanks.

I want to talk a bit more about DrWilgy now.

[MacDougall]

Let's start with this question.

Does anybody have a civ read on DrWilgy?

[juliets]

You guys can make this easy by going ahead and lynching me. I really just now started to be invested in this game so it won't kill me to go out. Don't say I didn't warn you thought that it will be a mislynch.

Silly bwt doesn't know me, my game, or how stressed I am right now.

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] I have no reason to think Dr. Wilgy is civ.

[Long Con]

Ok hi, first of all, I'm not even in on this "framing" plan you paranoid maniac. RIP Epignosis. Pretty unlikely that I night kill Epignosis at all, but that's just some true meta that you don't have to believe unless you already understand this. I'm not really putting that in as a defense, but it's the truth. It's not sporting. Epi is only fun to lynch.

I don't particularly trust Mac. I mostly don't trust Mac though, I don't distrust him specifically for this game. Like, not any more than usual.

To me, in a game where infodumping isn't allowed, saying "Can you just vote there because I asked" carries a bit more gravitas, because it's about the level of strength one could use to make a "I alignment-checked Creature and he's bad" statement.

So, you're saying here that Mac happens to have an alignment checker role. On Night 1, he happened to alignment check Creature, and he happened to hit the jackpot and found out Creature was mafia? See, I think that's kind of lame.

I wouldn't normally think it was lame, because I generally think it's wise to posit any and all theories. But you said mine was lame, and yours is on the same level, so I'm calling it lame too.

You are a cool lady. And goddamn right my plan was lame. Yes, I suspected Creature for the innocent Player Salad. Mac's request though...

this is the part where we lynch Creature

Why do we do that?

For once can the answer just be "because I am pretty sure he is bad"? Like just for once?

Yes. [VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Sorry, Mac, but where I come from there are consequences for this kind of thing.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

[Long Con]

Wait, also, indi: I red-checked Jack on Night 1 in my last game... so I don't think it's far-fetched for an info role to "hit the jackpot" on Night 1. I think it's a stretch for you to suggest that it is ridiculously unlikely.

Jesus, rereading your sentence with three "happens to" phrases in it is just troubling to me. As in, you are kinda going over the top into agenda-ville with the propaganda level.

[MacDougall]

Ok hi, first of all, I'm not even in on this "framing" plan you paranoid maniac. RIP Epignosis. Pretty unlikely that I night kill Epignosis at all, but that's just some true meta that you don't have to believe unless you already understand this. I'm not really putting that in as a defense, but it's the truth. It's not sporting. Epi is only fun to lynch.

I don't particularly trust Mac. I mostly don't trust Mac though, I don't distrust him specifically for this game. Like, not any more than usual.

To me, in a game where infodumping isn't allowed, saying "Can you just vote there because I asked" carries a bit more gravitas, because it's about the level of strength one could use to make a "I alignment-checked Creature and he's bad" statement.

So, you're saying here that Mac happens to have an alignment checker role. On Night 1, he happened to alignment check Creature, and he happened to hit the jackpot and found out Creature was mafia? See, I think that's kind of lame.

I wouldn't normally think it was lame, because I generally think it's wise to posit any and all theories. But you said mine was lame, and yours is on the same level, so I'm calling it lame too.

You are a cool lady. And goddamn right my plan was lame. Yes, I suspected Creature for the innocent Player Salad. Mac's request though...

this is the part where we lynch Creature

Why do we do that?

For once can the answer just be "because I am pretty sure he is bad"? Like just for once?

Yes. [VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Sorry, Mac, but where I come from there are consequences for this kind of thing.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

I told you that I did not have information on Creature. You construed my misplaced confidence as a red-peek. You're voting me because of your own misinterpretation of what occurred.

[Long Con]

No, you asked me to vote No Questions Asked. How are you not a marked man in my books now?

[MacDougall]

I don't particularly trust Mac. I mostly don't trust Mac though, I don't distrust him specifically for this game. Like, not any more than usual.

To me, in a game where infodumping isn't allowed, saying "Can you just vote there because I asked" carries a bit more gravitas, because it's about the level of strength one could use to make a "I alignment-checked Creature and he's bad" statement.

I didn't.

This is the part where I clearly told you I did not have information.

[MacDougall]

No, you asked me to vote No Questions Asked. How are you not a marked man in my books now?

Because being wrong does not equal being scum that is such lazy thinking.

[MacDougall]

You are suggesting that Mafia Mac decides that the play on day 2 is to stake his game life on single mislynch wagon of Creature (who was most likely to get lynched with or without my support)?

[Long Con]

I don't particularly trust Mac. I mostly don't trust Mac though, I don't distrust him specifically for this game. Like, not any more than usual.

To me, in a game where infodumping isn't allowed, saying "Can you just vote there because I asked" carries a bit more gravitas, because it's about the level of strength one could use to make a "I alignment-checked Creature and he's bad" statement.

I didn't.

This is the part where I clearly told you I did not have information.

There has to be consequences for you making that request of me.

[Long Con]

Lazy? Lazy? I asked you why vote Creature. You want to lecture me for being lazy?

[MacDougall]

I was lazy then. You are being lazy now. You are taking the cheap route putting your vote on me right now.

Talking consequences, do you actually think I am bad?

[Long Con]

I was lazy then. You are being lazy now. You are taking the cheap route putting your vote on me right now.

Talking consequences, do you actually think I am bad?

Yeah.... you just like to crow about your baddie achievements, like the NEVER FORGET image, and I just keep seeing you in the future, "how about that time that I got Long Con to help me lynch a Civ just by asking nice?" So easy to see.

[MacDougall]

I was lazy then. You are being lazy now. You are taking the cheap route putting your vote on me right now.

Talking consequences, do you actually think I am bad?

Yeah.... you just like to crow about your baddie achievements, like the NEVER FORGET image, and I just keep seeing you in the future, "how about that time that I got Long Con to help me lynch a Civ just by asking nice?" So easy to see.

Okay Long Con give lynching me your best shot. In the meantime I'm going to continue to try to find actual bad guys even though I had one bad day.

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

I am seeing very little to give this man credit for.

[nutella]

[VOTE: juliets] aubergine

I'm feeling generous to LC at the moment. Part of it is that I am tempted to believe his thing about epi even though it could easily be wifom, and part of it is his indignation toward Mac feels legit. I think it's very possible he and Mac are both town here.

I am sketched out by bwt jumping on to my juliets case though, and will keep a close eye on the rest of this phase. I could look into wilgy too as I have no reason to townread him but no strong case either.

[Long Con]

[VOTE: juliets] aubergine

I'm feeling generous to LC at the moment. Part of it is that I am tempted to believe his thing about epi even though it could easily be wifom, and part of it is his indignation toward Mac feels legit. I think it's very possible he and Mac are both town here.

Well that's mighty neighbourly of you, nutella. Truly, the first image that comes to my head when talking nightkill and Epignosis, is him smirking in self-satisfaction, "Once again, they prove that I'm superior, too dangerous to leave alive." And when I'm a baddie, I'm not down with that. It's not as ironclad as playing with Black Rock (my wife, for the newcomers), when an early nightkill is damn well proof that I'm not on that baddie team. I wouldn't use my pride to argue against baddie teammates who have valid/urgent reasons to kill Epi.

Maybe Mac is town. Maybe he's bad in [this game](?) and buddying me in [this game](?), and I'm his fool. Did I mention playing fuelled by pride? I dunno. I don't want a therapy session, just some lucky Mafia hits!

[MacDougall]

Yeah I am pretty sure LC is a civ here.

[juliets]

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

I am seeing very little to give this man credit for.

I don't think it's Long Con or you and I don't see anything that makes Wilgy civ either so I'll vote there for now. Why am I the only one who answered your question about seeing anything civ in Wilgy? Maybe others will today.

[MacDougall]

Happy day friends. I am lit af and going to bed. Fap fap.

[juliets]

Re: Dr. Wilgy

I had forgotten about this until I was reviewing bwt's posts:

As much as I trust Kyle and Creature right now, I just don't get the switch to Wilgy at the last second.

Kyle died that night and Creature died in the lynch the next day and Dr. Wilgy voted for him.

[juliets]

@MacDougall juliets is bad because she is saying that in retrospect drago and I are obvtown for objecting to the creature lynch, whereas she never reconsidered her creature vote when it was happening. She made the appearance of taking us and our LC cases seriously after we were proven right, but only after the fact. While creature was being lynched she was totally content to just let it happen.

See Mac Daddy? This is the kind of logic I can get behind.

[VOTE: Juliets] aubergine

The logic didn't even make sense.

Nah it does. The issue being I've been up since 5:30 this morning and it is almost 9 my time. Plus I have to get up at 4AM because I'm flying home tomorrow for my brother's best friend's wedding this weekend. So I don't have time to go and pull the specific quote. But I know it was one of the ones of you gloming onto nutella and someone else's case. I can't remember.

I'll try to pull it at the airport or when I get home tomorrow. But I might not be taking my laptop so it could just be me on my phone for a few days here.

Yeah I think you should pull it. I walked through why I had the gut feel on Drago and nutella in two separate posts. Like I said before, if you want to take me out of the game it won't matter to me nearly as much as it will matter to you after you see my flip so I would highly recommend you make sure you consider your evidence as rock solid.

[DrWilgy]

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

I am seeing very little to give this man credit for.

I agree with you completely.

[juliets]

MacDougall juliets is bad because she is saying that in retrospect drago and I are obvtown for objecting to the creature lynch, whereas she never reconsidered her creature vote when it was happening. She made the appearance of taking us and our LC cases seriously after we were proven right, but only after the fact. While creature was being lynched she was totally content to just let it happen.

I will address this again because I don't think it proves anything, and others seem to think it does.

The series of events was this:

1. I suspected Creature
2. I considered Long Con
3. I voted Creature
4. Creature flipped civ
5. After Creature flipped civ the two people who argued against his vote appeared civ to me

So first, nutella says I never reconsidered my Creature vote. In fact, I considered the argument for Long Con BEFORE I voted for Creature.

Secondly, nutella says I only took the LC case seriously AFTER they were proven right which is false. Look at my ISO, I engaged with Drago about his case on Long Con BEFORE Creature flipped civ. I also engaged with indiglo about Long Con BEFORE Creature flipped.

Thirdly nutella says I was "totally content to just let it happen". What? nutella has the ability to get inside my mind and tell you all about the state of my feelings? Who of you are accepting this as fact? [mention]birdwithteeth11[/mention] ? I was not "totally content". I stayed in the thread after voting to keep reading and give myself a chance to change my mind.

So I ask those of you who vote for me, which of her points are you considering rock solid fact? I hope if you're voting me you can track it back to something other than this "case" against me.

[Rej]

I am totally splitted and this maffia bafflegab is just killing me and totally new for me.
My vote on Juliets came from my gut feelings of D2, observing the low investment of Juliets took in both wagon and permanently questioning stuff that is discussed already. And I went sleep so I just left the vote on Juliets to see what happens and how I would reengage into the conversation.
I don't know Juliets meta but she suddenly changed completely, making me think she is either scum who wants to avoid a lynch wagon being formed on her or a town who wants to make a counter wagon. I am 60/40 still.

But still I lean towards here being the 40% town, because scum would have the most easy chance this DP to form a mislynch wagon on Juliets if she is town, which let me check out the votes and the townreads in all this WIFOM mess. (sadly we can't claim and only 1-2 people might have information at this point)

So reanalyzing how Mac Dougall plays, the way he forms wagons (DrWigley) is always giving me off scumvibes, while the rest of his plays and discussions are giving me townie vibes. Don't know if I am the only one feeling it, but this could be a disguise and the Mac vs Drago situation this DP gave me fluff vibes, because it ended apruptly and the Juliets wagon got started.

From my perspective the vote on Juliet has been a town vote on a 50/50~ +/- target which let's me question how easy scum could have used it to jump on the lynch, which let's me think Mac and nutella are scum mates. One using the Juliet town train and the other one opening the next case.
No lynch train yet made sense to me for some reasons, because I am used to lynching while having more proof, but good WIFOM situations make slipping basically unreadable until you got the late game of a setup where in worst case you fight x+1 town vs x mafia.

And if Juliets is scum then it could mean that Mac set up saving Juliet by pushing forward a train on Wigley.
This makes me read Drago really as town and at this point I rly would like to know who is reading Drago as town aswell?

Short summary:

Scum duos I read:
Mac + Juliet
Mac + Nutella
Mac + Drago
Juliet + Drago

[Rej]

I also have a Long Con + Nutella read, but I will come to it later. First I lit myself up scurr scurr.

[Rej]

Ok hi, first of all, I'm not even in on this "framing" plan you paranoid maniac. RIP Epignosis. Pretty unlikely that I night kill Epignosis at all, but that's just some true meta that you don't have to believe unless you already understand this. I'm not really putting that in as a defense, but it's the truth. It's not sporting. Epi is only fun to lynch.

I don't particularly trust Mac. I mostly don't trust Mac though, I don't distrust him specifically for this game. Like, not any more than usual.

To me, in a game where infodumping isn't allowed, saying "Can you just vote there because I asked" carries a bit more gravitas, because it's about the level of strength one could use to make a "I alignment-checked Creature and he's bad" statement.

So, you're saying here that Mac happens to have an alignment checker role. On Night 1, he happened to alignment check Creature, and he happened to hit the jackpot and found out Creature was mafia? See, I think that's kind of lame.

I wouldn't normally think it was lame, because I generally think it's wise to posit any and all theories. But you said mine was lame, and yours is on the same level, so I'm calling it lame too.

You are a cool lady. And goddamn right my plan was lame. Yes, I suspected Creature for the innocent Player Salad. Mac's request though...

this is the part where we lynch Creature

Why do we do that?

For once can the answer just be "because I am pretty sure he is bad"? Like just for once?

Yes. [VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Sorry, Mac, but where I come from there are consequences for this kind of thing.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

I rly don't like how Long Con performed against Indiglo - who gave me a rly rly strong townread here.
How do people town read Long Con based on this post? Am I the only who is actually dumb? Do I miss something here?

Is Mac always acting scummy as town?

[Rej]

Ok hi, first of all, I'm not even in on this "framing" plan you paranoid maniac. RIP Epignosis. Pretty unlikely that I night kill Epignosis at all, but that's just some true meta that you don't have to believe unless you already understand this. I'm not really putting that in as a defense, but it's the truth. It's not sporting. Epi is only fun to lynch.

I don't particularly trust Mac. I mostly don't trust Mac though, I don't distrust him specifically for this game. Like, not any more than usual.

To me, in a game where infodumping isn't allowed, saying "Can you just vote there because I asked" carries a bit more gravitas, because it's about the level of strength one could use to make a "I alignment-checked Creature and he's bad" statement.

So, you're saying here that Mac happens to have an alignment checker role. On Night 1, he happened to alignment check Creature, and he happened to hit the jackpot and found out Creature was mafia? See, I think that's kind of lame.

I wouldn't normally think it was lame, because I generally think it's wise to posit any and all theories. But you said mine was lame, and yours is on the same level, so I'm calling it lame too.

You are a cool lady. And goddamn right my plan was lame. Yes, I suspected Creature for the innocent Player Salad. Mac's request though...

this is the part where we lynch Creature

Why do we do that?

For once can the answer just be "because I am pretty sure he is bad"? Like just for once?

Yes. [VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Sorry, Mac, but where I come from there are consequences for this kind of thing.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

I rly don't like how Long Con performed against Indiglo - who gave me a rly rly strong townread here.
How do people town read Long Con based on this post? Am I the only who is actually dumb? Do I miss something here?

Is Mac always acting scummy as town?

[Rej]

Ok hi, first of all, I'm not even in on this "framing" plan you paranoid maniac. RIP Epignosis. Pretty unlikely that I night kill Epignosis at all, but that's just some true meta that you don't have to believe unless you already understand this. I'm not really putting that in as a defense, but it's the truth. It's not sporting. Epi is only fun to lynch.

I don't particularly trust Mac. I mostly don't trust Mac though, I don't distrust him specifically for this game. Like, not any more than usual.

To me, in a game where infodumping isn't allowed, saying "Can you just vote there because I asked" carries a bit more gravitas, because it's about the level of strength one could use to make a "I alignment-checked Creature and he's bad" statement.

So, you're saying here that Mac happens to have an alignment checker role. On Night 1, he happened to alignment check Creature, and he happened to hit the jackpot and found out Creature was mafia? See, I think that's kind of lame.

I wouldn't normally think it was lame, because I generally think it's wise to posit any and all theories. But you said mine was lame, and yours is on the same level, so I'm calling it lame too.

You are a cool lady. And goddamn right my plan was lame. Yes, I suspected Creature for the innocent Player Salad. Mac's request though...

this is the part where we lynch Creature

Why do we do that?

For once can the answer just be "because I am pretty sure he is bad"? Like just for once?

Yes. [VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Sorry, Mac, but where I come from there are consequences for this kind of thing.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

I rly don't like how Long Con performed against Indiglo - who gave me a rly rly strong townread here.
How do people town read Long Con based on this post? Am I the only who is actually dumb? Do I miss something here?

Is Mac always acting scummy as town?

[juliets]

I am totally splitted and this maffia bafflegab is just killing me and totally new for me.
My vote on Juliets came from my gut feelings of D2, observing the low investment of Juliets took in both wagon and permanently questioning stuff that is discussed already. And I went sleep so I just left the vote on Juliets to see what happens and how I would reengage into the conversation.
I don't know Juliets meta but she suddenly changed completely, making me think she is either scum who wants to avoid a lynch wagon being formed on her or a town who wants to make a counter wagon. I am 60/40 still.

<snip>

Rej, I did start becoming invested in this game late for several reasons, all of which I outlined in the other game but not here. The shortened version is I've had several real life issues in the last week - several medical issues and it was my birthday and I was pre-occupied with birthday things. In addition, I was playing the other game which is a monster game and it was sucking up most of the free time I had plus studying the background for a massive non-mafia game I agreed to sub into at MU. I have had a lot on my plate. I'm now dead in the other game so that frees up a chunk of time to play this one better. So you are correct about your gut feeling that I did not have high investment.

The thing I don't really understand is your comment that I was "permanently questioning stuff that is discussed already". Can you point that out? It's certainly possible that I missed something while skimming through the game and asked a question that already had been asked but I don't know that I did it. Also, how does that make me scum? And finally, the reason why you saw the change in me is back to the first point: I died in the other game and I am not spending a load of time in doctor's offices like I was. It's just a matter of time that was freed up.

I strongly urge you to take another look at my behavior and see if it makes sense for the reasons I've given you. As I said before, I won't be devastated if I get lynched but it will be the third mislynch in this game if it happens. I really don't want that to happen for game reasons. I would like for us to pull a win out of this and that is not looking favorable right now.

[juliets]

Ok hi, first of all, I'm not even in on this "framing" plan you paranoid maniac. RIP Epignosis. Pretty unlikely that I night kill Epignosis at all, but that's just some true meta that you don't have to believe unless you already understand this. I'm not really putting that in as a defense, but it's the truth. It's not sporting. Epi is only fun to lynch.

I don't particularly trust Mac. I mostly don't trust Mac though, I don't distrust him specifically for this game. Like, not any more than usual.

To me, in a game where infodumping isn't allowed, saying "Can you just vote there because I asked" carries a bit more gravitas, because it's about the level of strength one could use to make a "I alignment-checked Creature and he's bad" statement.

So, you're saying here that Mac happens to have an alignment checker role. On Night 1, he happened to alignment check Creature, and he happened to hit the jackpot and found out Creature was mafia? See, I think that's kind of lame.

I wouldn't normally think it was lame, because I generally think it's wise to posit any and all theories. But you said mine was lame, and yours is on the same level, so I'm calling it lame too.

You are a cool lady. And goddamn right my plan was lame. Yes, I suspected Creature for the innocent Player Salad. Mac's request though...

this is the part where we lynch Creature

Why do we do that?

For once can the answer just be "because I am pretty sure he is bad"? Like just for once?

Yes. [VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Sorry, Mac, but where I come from there are consequences for this kind of thing.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

I rly don't like how Long Con performed against Indiglo - who gave me a rly rly strong townread here.
How do people town read Long Con based on this post? Am I the only who is actually dumb? Do I miss something here?

Is Mac always acting scummy as town?

Rej, which part of Long Con's post do you object to? The first part where he says "I'm not even in on this framing plan you paranoid maniac" he was talking to Drago not indiglo. So it is another part of this post you didn't like?

Also, what behavior of Mac's do you see as scummy?

[nutella]

Okay juliets I'm looking at your iso for where you "considered" some points on LC. Mostly what I'm seeing is you asking what the reasons were and then dismissing them.

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

It's the best thing going that isn't a Creature vote.

I will not be here for EOD today, but I have several hours still. So hopefully we can stay organized.

(Also, Creature, if you really are mafia, I tip my hat to you. lol )

indi, did you see something in LC's ISO that convinced you to vote him?

I'm not married to my vote for LC. At this point, I feel like my most likely candidates would be between Mac, Wilgy and LC. Because of how the votes started going down from the beginning of this day phase.

I wanted to get a vote on the board, and of those 3, LC had the most votes so far. I'm open to further discussion for sure, and vote changing, up until the time I have to leave.

Ok, so it wasn't something you found in his ISO that convinced you. I just ISO'd him and didn't really see a lot. His beef with Creature seemed to be the player salad issue, and other than that he responded to Mac's plea to please vote Creature. @Long Con correct me if I am wrong.

@juliets it did fit the standard salad definition of "a, b, c, or maybe d" so it was a valid call-out but I think LC got a bit too excited about it/may put too much weight on it. I think I've also seen civ LC get overexcited about catching a salad though

OK nutella thanks, particularly for the info that his "huge black mark" comment may be NAI.

Basically you seem pretty neutral-to-dismissive toward the points on LC, and I could see your questioning as a teammate avoiding a lack of acknowledgement of the suspicion but ultimately going with the creature vote with not much explanation:

yeah suspicious or not I think I'm going to vote Creature for similar reasons.

So I'm not entirely convinced by your defense but I can see a world where you're being honest, and since I'm feeling better about LC and this is partially positing a teammate relationship I may cool down on it.

I am alternatively considering a bwt/wilgy w/w universe.

[Rej]

I am totally splitted and this maffia bafflegab is just killing me and totally new for me.
My vote on Juliets came from my gut feelings of D2, observing the low investment of Juliets took in both wagon and permanently questioning stuff that is discussed already. And I went sleep so I just left the vote on Juliets to see what happens and how I would reengage into the conversation.
I don't know Juliets meta but she suddenly changed completely, making me think she is either scum who wants to avoid a lynch wagon being formed on her or a town who wants to make a counter wagon. I am 60/40 still.

<snip>

Rej, I did start becoming invested in this game late for several reasons, all of which I outlined in the other game but not here. The shortened version is I've had several real life issues in the last week - several medical issues and it was my birthday and I was pre-occupied with birthday things. In addition, I was playing the other game which is a monster game and it was sucking up most of the free time I had plus studying the background for a massive non-mafia game I agreed to sub into at MU. I have had a lot on my plate. I'm now dead in the other game so that frees up a chunk of time to play this one better. So you are correct about your gut feeling that I did not have high investment.

The thing I don't really understand is your comment that I was "permanently questioning stuff that is discussed already". Can you point that out? It's certainly possible that I missed something while skimming through the game and asked a question that already had been asked but I don't know that I did it. Also, how does that make me scum? And finally, the reason why you saw the change in me is back to the first point: I died in the other game and I am not spending a load of time in doctor's offices like I was. It's just a matter of time that was freed up.

I strongly urge you to take another look at my behavior and see if it makes sense for the reasons I've given you. As I said before, I won't be devastated if I get lynched but it will be the third mislynch in this game if it happens. I really don't want that to happen for game reasons. I would like for us to pull a win out of this and that is not looking favorable right now.

Oh I am sorry, you didn't have to spill out the details, I heard from some veteran players that empathy doesn't belong into mafia, so I am new here I see it as a way to engage in discussion with you. Maybe my reasoning is still not in depth but sec. Ahyeah the recent questioning from you has been on page 15 resolved, but especially earlier on you did rather question people but I should take it more easy. For a certain part of the game I had my eyes on the players with lower activity, especially Oreki and you and I made observations and found especially you having no impact on anything, similair like me. The mislynch wagons were formed by others, so I regret taking a look at you as a primary scum and that's where I lean more towards a Mac + x combo or a Long Con + x combo.
Also who gives us the confirmation that enemies are one mafia, seeing how splitted it is I get the vibes of this being a multiball with potential a even-night scum duo and a odd-night scum duo. I wonder why people are not really considering triple dynamics in here. It is a mess to read for my part.

Also to your question bout Mac, the way he manipulated Long Con to lynch Creature and how easy Long Con jumped on it is bothering me, also that's why I asked if Mac always plays scummy as town because I still townread him based on how he converses with people, but looking behind his actual plays and their outcomes he is just scum. Also how he planted confusion D1 and noone cared gives me the idea of another bunch of scum just bypassing this opener. I hope I make a bit more sense now.

[juliets]

Okay juliets I'm looking at your iso for where you "considered" some points on LC. Mostly what I'm seeing is you asking what the reasons were and then dismissing them.

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

It's the best thing going that isn't a Creature vote.

I will not be here for EOD today, but I have several hours still. So hopefully we can stay organized.

(Also, Creature, if you really are mafia, I tip my hat to you. lol )

indi, did you see something in LC's ISO that convinced you to vote him?

I'm not married to my vote for LC. At this point, I feel like my most likely candidates would be between Mac, Wilgy and LC. Because of how the votes started going down from the beginning of this day phase.

I wanted to get a vote on the board, and of those 3, LC had the most votes so far. I'm open to further discussion for sure, and vote changing, up until the time I have to leave.

Ok, so it wasn't something you found in his ISO that convinced you. I just ISO'd him and didn't really see a lot. His beef with Creature seemed to be the player salad issue, and other than that he responded to Mac's plea to please vote Creature. @Long Con correct me if I am wrong.

@juliets it did fit the standard salad definition of "a, b, c, or maybe d" so it was a valid call-out but I think LC got a bit too excited about it/may put too much weight on it. I think I've also seen civ LC get overexcited about catching a salad though

OK nutella thanks, particularly for the info that his "huge black mark" comment may be NAI.

Basically you seem pretty neutral-to-dismissive toward the points on LC, and I could see your questioning as a teammate avoiding a lack of acknowledgement of the suspicion but ultimately going with the creature vote with not much explanation:

yeah suspicious or not I think I'm going to vote Creature for similar reasons.

So I'm not entirely convinced by your defense but I can see a world where you're being honest, and since I'm feeling better about LC and this is partially positing a teammate relationship I may cool down on it.

I am alternatively considering a bwt/wilgy w/w universe.

I generally collect info by questioning and then ponder it. With indiglo, she said she was going to ISO LC and since she voted for him later I thought she had found something in his ISO. When I asked her what she found she didn't answer the question but proceeded to tell me of those who had the most votes he looked the worst to her. That made me suspicious (and in fact as I write this I'm thinking I should go back and look at her more closely). I did consider Drago's case but most of the things he listed seemed NAI to me based on what I have seen out of LC over the years. Without going back and looking I believe he's the one that mentioned LC's sabie comments looked stiff and I could see that but in the end that wasn't enough for me to vote him.

So Wilgy and bwt. Is it bwts quick jump on me that makes you suspicious or were there other things as well?

linki

[nutella]

Re: Dr. Wilgy

I had forgotten about this until I was reviewing bwt's posts:

As much as I trust Kyle and Creature right now, I just don't get the switch to Wilgy at the last second.

Kyle died that night and Creature died in the lynch the next day and Dr. Wilgy voted for him.

This is a contributing point to bwt/wilgy suspicion

[juliets]

I am totally splitted and this maffia bafflegab is just killing me and totally new for me.
My vote on Juliets came from my gut feelings of D2, observing the low investment of Juliets took in both wagon and permanently questioning stuff that is discussed already. And I went sleep so I just left the vote on Juliets to see what happens and how I would reengage into the conversation.
I don't know Juliets meta but she suddenly changed completely, making me think she is either scum who wants to avoid a lynch wagon being formed on her or a town who wants to make a counter wagon. I am 60/40 still.

<snip>

Rej, I did start becoming invested in this game late for several reasons, all of which I outlined in the other game but not here. The shortened version is I've had several real life issues in the last week - several medical issues and it was my birthday and I was pre-occupied with birthday things. In addition, I was playing the other game which is a monster game and it was sucking up most of the free time I had plus studying the background for a massive non-mafia game I agreed to sub into at MU. I have had a lot on my plate. I'm now dead in the other game so that frees up a chunk of time to play this one better. So you are correct about your gut feeling that I did not have high investment.

The thing I don't really understand is your comment that I was "permanently questioning stuff that is discussed already". Can you point that out? It's certainly possible that I missed something while skimming through the game and asked a question that already had been asked but I don't know that I did it. Also, how does that make me scum? And finally, the reason why you saw the change in me is back to the first point: I died in the other game and I am not spending a load of time in doctor's offices like I was. It's just a matter of time that was freed up.

I strongly urge you to take another look at my behavior and see if it makes sense for the reasons I've given you. As I said before, I won't be devastated if I get lynched but it will be the third mislynch in this game if it happens. I really don't want that to happen for game reasons. I would like for us to pull a win out of this and that is not looking favorable right now.

Oh I am sorry, you didn't have to spill out the details, I heard from some veteran players that empathy doesn't belong into mafia, so I am new here I see it as a way to engage in discussion with you. Maybe my reasoning is still not in depth but sec. Ahyeah the recent questioning from you has been on page 15 resolved, but especially earlier on you did rather question people but I should take it more easy. For a certain part of the game I had my eyes on the players with lower activity, especially Oreki and you and I made observations and found especially you having no impact on anything, similair like me. The mislynch wagons were formed by others, so I regret taking a look at you as a primary scum and that's where I lean more towards a Mac + x combo or a Long Con + x combo.
Also who gives us the confirmation that enemies are one mafia, seeing how splitted it is I get the vibes of this being a multiball with potential a even-night scum duo and a odd-night scum duo. I wonder why people are not really considering triple dynamics in here. It is a mess to read for my part.

Also to your question bout Mac, the way he manipulated Long Con to lynch Creature and how easy Long Con jumped on it is bothering me, also that's why I asked if Mac always plays scummy as town because I still townread him based on how he converses with people, but looking behind his actual plays and their outcomes he is just scum. Also how he planted confusion D1 and noone cared gives me the idea of another bunch of scum just bypassing this opener. I hope I make a bit more sense now.

Rej, yeah the part about empathy, I'm not asking for you to feel sorry for me, I'm just explaining how busy I was and why I wasn't as engaged. I think you can see I'm engaged now that some time has freed up. I did look at pg. 15 but the only question I saw that I asked on that page had to do with what you meant by a post and it turned out you thought I was another juliets. So I'm going to consider that resolved. Regarding confirmation on how many mafia teams there are in the game people usually make an assumption there is only one team when the player count is this low and/or because in the night posts there is no mafia team mentioned (x was killed by the Mafia Team y). And thanks for answering my question about Mac.

linki
I'm off to the gym will catch up when I return.

[Rej]

@indiglo why Wilgy?

I posted my reasoning in the post directly before my vote post Iit was supposed to be all in 1 post, but, something freaked out and it posted before I could add my vote to the post):

I'm not finished with reading yet but looking at the thread, @birdwithteeth11 comes off quite aggressively and his behavior not really feel like town behavior, it's more comes off as a wolf for me. They way he ask players or point out thinks Kinda coming forcefully. I will read the entire thread and will provide my reads on my suspect along with birdwith.

@Creature if there's anything that I've learned in my time on this planet it's that if you sus bwt day 1 and he's not bad, you are. Wanna flip that coin buddy?

So I just found this. Wilgy is calling out Creature for doing something that Oreki did Day 1... but Wilgy doesn't throw any suspicion Oreki's way for it. I don't like that at all.

Oh I see indi, I don't know why I didn't see that. Thanks.

I meant that xd

[Rej]

I am totally splitted and this maffia bafflegab is just killing me and totally new for me.
My vote on Juliets came from my gut feelings of D2, observing the low investment of Juliets took in both wagon and permanently questioning stuff that is discussed already. And I went sleep so I just left the vote on Juliets to see what happens and how I would reengage into the conversation.
I don't know Juliets meta but she suddenly changed completely, making me think she is either scum who wants to avoid a lynch wagon being formed on her or a town who wants to make a counter wagon. I am 60/40 still.

<snip>

Rej, I did start becoming invested in this game late for several reasons, all of which I outlined in the other game but not here. The shortened version is I've had several real life issues in the last week - several medical issues and it was my birthday and I was pre-occupied with birthday things. In addition, I was playing the other game which is a monster game and it was sucking up most of the free time I had plus studying the background for a massive non-mafia game I agreed to sub into at MU. I have had a lot on my plate. I'm now dead in the other game so that frees up a chunk of time to play this one better. So you are correct about your gut feeling that I did not have high investment.

The thing I don't really understand is your comment that I was "permanently questioning stuff that is discussed already". Can you point that out? It's certainly possible that I missed something while skimming through the game and asked a question that already had been asked but I don't know that I did it. Also, how does that make me scum? And finally, the reason why you saw the change in me is back to the first point: I died in the other game and I am not spending a load of time in doctor's offices like I was. It's just a matter of time that was freed up.

I strongly urge you to take another look at my behavior and see if it makes sense for the reasons I've given you. As I said before, I won't be devastated if I get lynched but it will be the third mislynch in this game if it happens. I really don't want that to happen for game reasons. I would like for us to pull a win out of this and that is not looking favorable right now.

Oh I am sorry, you didn't have to spill out the details, I heard from some veteran players that empathy doesn't belong into mafia, so I am new here I see it as a way to engage in discussion with you. Maybe my reasoning is still not in depth but sec. Ahyeah the recent questioning from you has been on page 15 resolved, but especially earlier on you did rather question people but I should take it more easy. For a certain part of the game I had my eyes on the players with lower activity, especially Oreki and you and I made observations and found especially you having no impact on anything, similair like me. The mislynch wagons were formed by others, so I regret taking a look at you as a primary scum and that's where I lean more towards a Mac + x combo or a Long Con + x combo.
Also who gives us the confirmation that enemies are one mafia, seeing how splitted it is I get the vibes of this being a multiball with potential a even-night scum duo and a odd-night scum duo. I wonder why people are not really considering triple dynamics in here. It is a mess to read for my part.

Also to your question bout Mac, the way he manipulated Long Con to lynch Creature and how easy Long Con jumped on it is bothering me, also that's why I asked if Mac always plays scummy as town because I still townread him based on how he converses with people, but looking behind his actual plays and their outcomes he is just scum. Also how he planted confusion D1 and noone cared gives me the idea of another bunch of scum just bypassing this opener. I hope I make a bit more sense now.

Rej, yeah the part about empathy, I'm not asking for you to feel sorry for me, I'm just explaining how busy I was and why I wasn't as engaged. I think you can see I'm engaged now that some time has freed up. I did look at pg. 15 but the only question I saw that I asked on that page had to do with what you meant by a post and it turned out you thought I was another juliets. So I'm going to consider that resolved. Regarding confirmation on how many mafia teams there are in the game people usually make an assumption there is only one team when the player count is this low and/or because in the night posts there is no mafia team mentioned (x was killed by the Mafia Team y). And thanks for answering my question about Mac.

linki
I'm off to the gym will catch up when I return.

[Rej]

Woops this forum sometimes bugs while trying to send a message.

[mention]juliets[/mention] What I wanted to add is it's fine I got it, RealLife over MafiaLife, no need for spoiling your troubles. What I just thought is you said you additionally became active after dying in another game, which gave some halfassed vibes. Sorry for that, else I am fine for now.

[Long Con]

Woops this forum sometimes bugs while trying to send a message.

@juliets What I wanted to add is it's fine I got it, RealLife over MafiaLife, no need for spoiling your troubles. What I just thought is you said you additionally became active after dying in another game, which gave some halfassed vibes. Sorry for that, else I am fine for now.

Becoming more active in one game after dying in the other... seems like an obvious normal thing to happen. You think it's alignment-indicative?

[Oreki]

My town reads were correct the game through, and I am still...oof guys...

So it was clear this was a mislynch wagon but I like how people still kept discussing it through the whole day leading into nothing.

@Dragomir bruh, you don't wanna be mislynched again...it is one thing, but you also don't want to mislynch others. Others won't build up the psychology of not mislynching, but in the end you practice it, not only here, but you did the same on OJ. You don't let got of me, even when I jumped off the wagon on creature as one of the first.

From defense to offense...we don't have a townkilling by now and I rly sus Juliets now, because I am more used from her plays, she is doing more reads in generell etc, never seen someone playing so off and then going like:
"Hi Mac" - nothing else.

Ffs either MacDougall is town for 100% or he is deepwolfing and taking control of the wagons.
Also YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY 2 misslynches....Dragomir be like: "I am the most active here, leading the discussions..." tell me why is it so familair?
Oh right in our last game hosted by novas we both swiped town by forming one scumwagon against town after another and noone realized it while 1 obvious scum atleast were known to town.

I am getting heavy flashbacks here

You know what Rej you could better than that by actually not keep complaining about Drago suspecting you or getting paranoid over it. Just get over with it, if we got two mislynch that doesn't mean you make a wall post over it and complain about it or bring previous game mistakes. Do your work as a player and get over with it, Mafia is game where mislynch happens but getting to worked up over them is just too much

[Oreki]

1. When I postulated that Dragomir was being pocketed by nut he said that he agreed but then closed the post by saying it wasn't a strong feeling. His last post of night 2 was very similar about me. I don't like it. He's afraid of outright calling either nut or I bad.

2. Epi wanted to lynch him. Dragomir avoided engaging Epi during night 2 beyond saying "good luck with that". Because he knew Epi wouldn't be here on day 3.

Oh, wow I actually found your reason really forceful as if it's an attempt to make a mislynch

[Matahari]

I feel like Juliet’s is town. I also think Rej is town.

[Oreki]

Btw, sorry for my low activity Had the real-life issue and I'm currently hosting a game in another forum which happens to be my first game. So I kinda have to pay little more attention but I'll try to be more active for now on

Currently, I found Nutella post little off, the reason. her reason for Juliet suspect seems little off to me.

[Oreki]

I found

Drago town vibes
Rej town vibes
Mac also giving me town vibes

Juliet Neutral
Nutella is Sus

[Oreki]

This time I actually can say that I definitely think that birdwithteeth11 giving me scum vibes due to his odd passive behavior which hard to notice but I haven't seen him making his own move so far and now that giving me scum vibes

[Oreki]

[VOTE: birdwithteeth11] aubergine

[Oreki]

My post about mac was before reading his more post, which I found decent enough to believe in them and his reason is something I can agree with now

[juliets]

Re: Dr. Wilgy

I had forgotten about this until I was reviewing bwt's posts:

As much as I trust Kyle and Creature right now, I just don't get the switch to Wilgy at the last second.

Kyle died that night and Creature died in the lynch the next day and Dr. Wilgy voted for him.

This is a contributing point to bwt/wilgy suspicion

Oh ok nutella, I see why you're seeing team in that.