The Syndicate

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:14 pm
novaselinenever wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:11 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:29 pm Hey @novaselinenever guess what
I have no idea what you're talking about

But I bet juliets does

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:07 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:03 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:00 pm
Mafia also won the first preliminary game, though I believe 100% of that can be attributed to nutella's early death.
LOL I would have pushed for lynching fura at least, and at least tried to get jack under more scrutiny than the undeserved zero, but Backpack was like the Mac of that game for me. I never would have sniffed him out.
I've always felt the tournament itself favors mafia teams for the same reason you guys had an advantage here: nobody knows each other. It's super easy to get away with phony behavior when no one knows what your authentic self looks like.

That's not to say it's not an awesome event and tons of fun to participate in. But it's a thing.

Yeah that's another good point. We were just out there throwing around townreads based on wildly differing standards.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:01 pm Y'all are raising good points about the composition of an ideal civilian. I have a five-pronged image now:

1) Make good reads / have good instincts (the dunyas and Macs)

2) Pursue those reads in such a manner that others will be compelled to follow (the Jays and Goldens)

3) Avoid the noose (the Epis)

4) Promote a thread climate conducive to effective hunting (the Slooneis and MPs)

5) Know when to play the role of the follower (numerous)

I smell an incoming uppity youtube presentation.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:00 pm
Mafia also won the first preliminary game, though I believe 100% of that can be attributed to nutella's early death.

LOL

I would have pushed for lynching fura at least, and at least tried to get jack under more scrutiny than the undeserved zero, but Backpack was like the Mac of that game for me. I never would have sniffed him out.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:56 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:52 pm I also think that the build, at least in this sites meta, favoured us. No night chat was a big deal.
I have mixed feelings. On balance, I don't like the setup. Randomizing alignments to this set of roles means that the game can be super skewed in either direction depending upon the dice.

In our case, I think the mafia team had one significant disadvantage: we couldn't kill anyone we wanted to kill until Night 5. Two jailers, two doctors, one JOAT, two trackers, and two watchers -- holy hell we had to tip toe around every damned thing to get anything done.

Locked nights were a huge advantage for us though. Just imagine if DDL had been able to rip us a new asshole on Night 5 before we killed him. That made a big difference in this game.

Fair enough about kill suppression dangers, but still the randomized roles mean that mafia can safely claim and stuff

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:52 pm I also think that the build, at least in this sites meta, favoured us. No night chat was a big deal.

Strongly agree. Thread lock during night is a substantial skew in the mafia's favor. I know it's pretty standard on many other sites but I think perhaps a couple other details about this setup combined with it give the mafia an unfair advantage, and judging by how the champs games so far are going I just might be right.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:33 pm Trying to suspect Jay or Nutella was legitimately annoying. I did not enjoy it.

Sorry man, I really gave you a hard time this game and I actually feel kinda bad about it.

scumchat for the morbidly curious https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/26LK2KPamm7Az

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:29 pm Hey @novaselinenever guess what

lol poor nova

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:23 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:18 pm also, lol that I was able to claim that I used the doctor shot on Lux when I really jailed her, even though she made a big deal puzzling out that she was roleblocked. I didn't actually know that Ultra had been the RB, but it's convenient that everyone seemed to just figure there must have been an RB out there and didn't question which JOAT ability I really used
And if you hadn't jailed her, she would have jailed mac and prevented the kill from going through that night. Things would have been very different if that night had played out any other way.

Right, yeah.

We also agonized over the n4 kill -- the classic "surely the doctor will protect the confirmed civ, but then he'd know that we'd expect him to do that, and he is not a great fool etc etc etc" and we went back and forth on that for a bit but we came to the right decision.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] can we publicize scumchat as well?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:19 pm I also think that if I do too good a job matching my civilian meta, it can hurt the rest of my team. I don't want the thread to catch fire. I want it to look like I want it to catch fire, perhaps.

Yeah lol. You were so incredibly meticulous about making it look like you were actively discussing while actually not stoking activity and timing things so that the thread wouldn't get too excited about anything. So calculated.

(of course she was dead by the time I claimed, perhaps she would have called it out)

also, lol that I was able to claim that I used the doctor shot on Lux when I really jailed her, even though she made a big deal puzzling out that she was roleblocked. I didn't actually know that Ultra had been the RB, but it's convenient that everyone seemed to just figure there must have been an RB out there and didn't question which JOAT ability I really used

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 pm I don't understand what was scummy about Jay. Dude provided all these big posts on player interactions and whatnot(albeit, didn't really lead anywhere), actually tried being a leader to some extent and was trying to game solve. The man was straight up powerwolfing. He was busting his ass to become a deep wolf. I'm surprised he didn't get that privilege.

DDL (and I before replacing in) was just able to identify scum Jay because of extensive familiarity with his town style. The differences are really subtle and you didn't have the privilege of having played with him several times before. And still, he basically was a deepwolf to most of the living town players toward the end.

Nah man that's absolutely not the case. You played well, you had legitimate suspicions that you reasoned out and followed with your gut and that is a style of town play that can be extremely crucial. I was mean and criticized your style bc I was trying to manipulate you into looking worse than you really looked, when really you were one of the most productive town players here, had one of the highest post counts and fought til the end for what you believed. You played well and don't let yourself think otherwise.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:50 pm DDL you were amazing.

Seriously. [mention]Dragon D. Luffy[/mention] you had us shaking in our boots til the end. If night phases weren't locked we might have lost to the pressure you would put on us then.

And if I had replaced in as town I would have been right there with you on Jay. I absolutely knew he was bad from way before I subbed in and when I got the PM I was like "oh shit gotta play this cool and not admit my amazing jaydar"

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:50 pm

LMAO

can we get mac a socky for best deepwolf

Gg yall

[mention]Sloonei[/mention]

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:42 pm nutella's silence is deafening

I'm having a nice day in the sunshine. I think speed is the better choice of course, if you are hoping I will persuade owner I don't know what else to say in this situation. I won't fault anyone for voting rdw at this stage as he has made no effort to prevent it himself.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 5:27 pm There are two things that almost always result in a scum lynch. One is unversal red on GTH and the other is the lynch being settled well ahead of the end of day with little panic or resistance.

....huh? I feel like that usually results in a mislynch??

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 5:23 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 5:22 pm no one thinks it's weird that literally everybody suspects rdw? are we going to just be okay with another uncontested lynch?
"Everyone"?

Don't you suspect him too?

yeah but like just by default/poe, not super strongly, and I'm starting to feel weird about this

no one thinks it's weird that literally everybody suspects rdw? are we going to just be okay with another uncontested lynch?

I could vote for rdw but I'd rather lynch speed, like why eliminate the silent wolf when you could eliminate one who still seems to have some clout

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 4:59 pm Nutella
Speedchuck
RDW

Best Civilian
Scum
Scum

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 4:57 pm DrWilgy
MacDougall

Scum
Town

Beep
Boop

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 4:55 pm Dragomir
Owner of a Lonely Heart

Scum
Town

Nah his wife is the one with the big belleh

Well that's not very nice

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 4:49 pm Dragon D Luffy
JaggedJimmyJay

Town
Town

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 4:42 pm
I don't conflate reads as scum. I don't lynch people over crap then say "aw, shucks, I was thinking of someone else". That's not my scumplay. Nor is it my townplay, really, but that's beside the point. I wasn't faking conflating two reads (Owner and Gemma) then hoping nobody would notice when my vote stayed put. That's ridiculous.

I assume that's what the accusation is.

sort of, yeah. my concern isn't necessarily that you conflated something you wanted to accuse somebody else of, it's more like you probably made up the read in the first place to justify a gemma vote, and when you couldn't find evidence to back up the reasoning you backed off on that but still came up with justification for the gemma vote.

linki @ mac, k

nutella wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 3:23 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 2:41 pm
speedchuck had dropped a vote on Gemma on Day 3, and this was his explanation after my prod. The highlighted portion seems to be an important thing, but on a scan I did not see speedchuck drawing this connection previously. If this associative read existed, it was exclusively in his head. I don't care for this.

As it happens, speedchuck wants that scratched. He said he was thinking of someone else, and that the Gemma suspicion was separate. Okay. Who was it supposed to be, chuckaroo? Luxurious suggested Owner. Yeh? Neh?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 6:19 pmBut I don't read ISOs, not lately.

Mm.

Gemma was saying a lot of things without saying anything, and the bird comics only got me so far. Suspicion. Don't remember anything more than that.

Feel Owner is town right now. Owner has a very specific was of scumhunting, and I didn't see it at first, but I've caught glimpses of it now.
In any event, in absence of the Ultra connection this is what remained of speedchuck's suspcion of Gemma. It's where his vote remained.
this is the most fascinating part of your findings imo. could be an attempt to draw a seemingly nonexistent connection between a teammate and an easy mislynch target.

I'm also not impressed by his nonchalant joining of the d2 soneji wagon when he clearly suspected jack more, and saying he was also "okay with a dragomir lynch" is patently unnecessary.

I liked the bit about the d4 reads as well, as I've pointed out earlier his "top scumreads" were big ol' nothings and particularly dragomir was in your words his "top waffle" lol. I been sayin.

[mention]speedchuck[/mention] since you needed some help

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 4:27 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 3:37 pm it's not merely the fact that you threw weak reads out in isolation though, it's with the context of which players they were and what your reasons were and your relation to dragomir over the course of the game. Believe me, I understand throwing out weak reads, but I think you're missing the point of why I found that post particularly suspicious.

Now address the new points
I see nothing there. You're throwing out buzzwords like "which players" and "your relation to dragomir" and I'm like... okay. So? What's scummy?

not that post omg. the one I originally posted quoting a part of Jay's post that was a new observation re: you/ultra/gemma. Please for the love of god stop just reading selectively and acknowledge what is actually being said about you

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 3:50 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 3:37 pm Now address the new points
... new points? You can ask me questions if you found something confusing, but I'm not going to hit that giant iso and start a bunch of disputes

Like the first thing I addressed in the same post you just quoted? You have elected to ignore that

it's not merely the fact that you threw weak reads out in isolation though, it's with the context of which players they were and what your reasons were and your relation to dragomir over the course of the game. Believe me, I understand throwing out weak reads, but I think you're missing the point of why I found that post particularly suspicious.

Now address the new points

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 2:41 pm
speedchuck had dropped a vote on Gemma on Day 3, and this was his explanation after my prod. The highlighted portion seems to be an important thing, but on a scan I did not see speedchuck drawing this connection previously. If this associative read existed, it was exclusively in his head. I don't care for this.

As it happens, speedchuck wants that scratched. He said he was thinking of someone else, and that the Gemma suspicion was separate. Okay. Who was it supposed to be, chuckaroo? Luxurious suggested Owner. Yeh? Neh?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 6:19 pmBut I don't read ISOs, not lately.

Mm.

Gemma was saying a lot of things without saying anything, and the bird comics only got me so far. Suspicion. Don't remember anything more than that.

Feel Owner is town right now. Owner has a very specific was of scumhunting, and I didn't see it at first, but I've caught glimpses of it now.
In any event, in absence of the Ultra connection this is what remained of speedchuck's suspcion of Gemma. It's where his vote remained.

this is the most fascinating part of your findings imo. could be an attempt to draw a seemingly nonexistent connection between a teammate and an easy mislynch target.

I'm also not impressed by his nonchalant joining of the d2 soneji wagon when he clearly suspected jack more, and saying he was also "okay with a dragomir lynch" is patently unnecessary.

I liked the bit about the d4 reads as well, as I've pointed out earlier his "top scumreads" were big ol' nothings and particularly dragomir was in your words his "top waffle" lol. I been sayin.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 2:31 pm Makes sense for drago to protect a relative townfirm

And easy enough to do so as mafia just for this reason (in case of tracking, which it seemed likely RDW would track dragomir since he stated suspicion of him, or alternatively they are teammates and just playing make believe) while killing another near universal townread

rundontwalk2 wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 1:39 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 1:25 pm Right, I mean the "depends on what Dragon says" part though -- or is the entire post about Dragomir

rundontwalk2 please come explain your shit
On what dragon luffy says like what was impact of dragonmir targeting him

...what?

I still don't understand why you voted ddl?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:19 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:15 pm linki: Then I guess I don't really get it. Actions seem towny or they don't. If the context doesn't change, then how does an interpretation completely flip it?
Re-interpretation doesn't change context, it changes reads. In your suspicion of me, you're forced to assess the entire body of the game to generate the stance that you have. I don't give a crap what you think of my response to your suspicion -- your suspicion preceded it (indeed, the semantics of that sentence are self-evident ). Is it even possible for you to develop a changed read on me without re-interpreting content which you had previously liked?

I'm so confused

this whole interaction feels like derailment

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 8:53 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 11:56 am That was a fun page to read. I sympathize with DDL's urge to follow his instinct on Jay, but I don't actually share that instinct at this point and I quite liked Jay's response. I see regular ol' hardass town Jay here.
What is "hardass town Jay" and where did you see him?

what?

you know like.... yourself?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 8:45 pm nutella, when you joined the game you said you'd had a theory that Gemma and I were both bad. Tell me about that, and more generally why you were beefing with Gemma

Well the connection between you was just her protection and that iirc you two were fairly buddy-buddy. My main issue with Gemma was her hesitance to express scumreads, and some general tonal pings

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 6:06 pm Softball tonight, be back later

Haha get it

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:57 am
nutella wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:56 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:36 am I find your vote placement questionable nutella. How can you justify voting speed over dragdocwalk?
He's my top suspect...? Your tiers don't exactly reflect my view but Dragomir is a very close second choice for me so whatever man
He is? Why?

you could, like, read my posts and find out

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:36 am I find your vote placement questionable nutella. How can you justify voting speed over dragdocwalk?

He's my top suspect...? Your tiers don't exactly reflect my view but Dragomir is a very close second choice for me so whatever man

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:19 am

But what Dragomir is doing doesn't look strong at all. I get why he's pushing me - cause there's a potential I might not really play that much, but still it's like dude, you were kind of caught in the act of overreacting to one vote. Yes, I get town has a reason to live too, but I did still claim early on. And you said "you wanted to scum read me"; it was like you knew I was town and what I did was townie. But then you decided/went ahead and scum read me anyway. It kind of feels like one of those grudge votes. (You were suspicious of me early, so I'm gonna get you back one way or another type deals. But yeah, it's not a super natural type read; it's like Dragomir is trying to hard to push something that isn't very natural or genuine feeling.

Yeah, I get a similar feeling - [mention]Dragomir[/mention] I had some trouble articulating the problems I've had with the way you've been pursuing Owner but this is sort of it. It's like you have chosen her as the scapegoat to come back to whenever you feel like lightly pressuring someone, in a way that slowly, gradually manipulates the narrative to set her up as a future mislynch in your favor.

I too have been finding Wilgy's questions kind of odd, like he knows a weird set of information about the game but is still missing a lot. [mention]DrWilgy[/mention] how much have you read?

I am in agreement with Owner about the possibility of a speed/drago team and I think the third is likely RDW or Wilgy. Owner what are your thoughts on RDW?

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine for now, I'm still feeling worst about him

Owner tracked lux n1 it was a whole deal

DDL was my strongest townread when I came into the game and I thought enough people townread him that he could be an nk target. Should've gone for nova

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