MU Season 6 Scrimmage [GAME OVER]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I was asked last DP by JJJ if I'd rather lynch Jessie or Speedchuck. My answer is Speed.

Clearly Owner is still your preference. Where does speedchuck stand today?

[speedchuck]

Just got back from rock climbing. Wew. Gonna read.

[speedchuck]

I would think a mafia's plan regarding me at this point would be "kill now or kill later" not "how can I get people to lynch him".

How about a dude who just got here

Perhaps not. But then would scum waste time insisting on such a case without even knowing if it's possible? And besides after a whole day he would have been briefed already.

That said this is starting to turn into WIFOM. Perhaps scum Wilgy would want to look uninformed.

How do you feel about this line of suspicion from JJJ, DDL? Is it feeling more like Jay trying to keep his options open as a bad dude, or Jay being concerned about the alignment of the doctor?

[speedchuck]

You guys didn't leave me SQUAT to read.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

It could be that Jay is legit concerned, but I also feel like Jay is pursuing a case with little substance, and that's not even the 2nd time I feel that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

How do you feel about this line of suspicion from JJJ, DDL? Is it feeling more like Jay trying to keep his options open as a bad dude, or Jay being concerned about the alignment of the doctor?

How do you feel?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm going to pursue any concern I experience for a guy who is putting content into a player slot for the first time since about Day 0.

[speedchuck]

How do you feel about this line of suspicion from JJJ, DDL? Is it feeling more like Jay trying to keep his options open as a bad dude, or Jay being concerned about the alignment of the doctor?

How do you feel?

I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to suspect you. Voted you yesterday and almost got lynched right after.

But regardless, yeah I feel worse about Wilgy coming out of it. I was curious as to what DDL, being arguably the most paranoid about you, would approach it as.

linki: fair enough.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Softball tonight, be back later

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Speed is acting weirdly around Jay. He keeps asking me about him. He even voted for him, then said he didn't want to lynch him at all and was setting up something else (another trap). Now he's asking again. I'm unsure what Speed thinks of Jay.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Someone do a Jay/Speed interaction thing. Will probably do it myself if nobody else does.

[speedchuck]

Speed is acting weirdly around Jay. He keeps asking me about him. He even voted for him, then said he didn't want to lynch him at all and was setting up something else (another trap). Now he's asking again. I'm unsure what Speed thinks of Jay.

What is this "other trap"?

Either you're making something up or I did something I don't remember. When I voted Jay to "see what happens", that included the possibility of lynching him. Maybe that's where the confusion was.

I don't know how to feel about Jay, not entirely. In my next post, I'll explain better.

[DrWilgy]

I look forward to it Speed <3

If you could detail the accusations beyond "Speed had fluffy filler and did not immediately scumread Ultra from the get-go" then that would be helpful.

I mean... I don't have accusations, but the interactions Owner pointed put between you and Ultra seemed suspicious. Responding to those would cover what I saw as sus. What did JJJ already say about your interactions with him?

[speedchuck]

Ultra and speedchuck

Spoiler: show

Yeah okay.

We got one.

Agreed that this entrance was awkward, especially in hindisight with his no lynch proposition

But then you proceeded to shade like 3 other people so I'm going to ask you how serious you are about this slot.

Ultra called speedchuck's entry awkward and shaded the no lynch thing. Okay.

Spoiler: show

Hmm... we dont have any information to work on yet, so we should probably no lynch d1.

[VOTE: Speedchuck] aubergine

[VOTE: Dragon D. Luffy] aubergine

This reeks of chainsaw defense.

Possibly, by you.

I don't need "possibly". What are you referring to?

Defend someone by attacking their accuser.

Since you're here elaborate on that vote

I think DDL got snagged by a booby trap. No lynches are horrendous, and I thought it looked evident that speedchuck wasn't serious in his recommendation.

I think holding someone accountable for saying Day Zeros are less valuable is a bit pushy, especially considering they in fact are. Now, if someone was using "Wait, I said that D0, it doesn't count!" as a defense, or as a reason to dismiss a case, that is categorically scummy. But outside of that context, there's no apparent scum motive to stating the obvious, other than perhaps appearing blendy.

Reaction posts can also carry a scum motive, so this sounds like TMI on speedchuck

Like I suggested earlier, this looks to me like an ironic sort of TMI on speedchuck, by way of accusing me of having TMI on speedchuck. For him to be so fierce that I shouldn't "chainsaw defend" speedchuck implies that he knows speedchuck is a civilian. There are a number of other posts relating in some way back to this. I won't highlight them all.

Spoiler: show

As for the vote, speedchuck is obvscumming.

If he's playing suboptimal to try and garner reactions, well, it's only common courtesy to start a wagon so he gets them.

I don't know what this is.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Ultra] aubergine

did you forget that you were townreading that player

No. Because I'm not.

I have some town pings from them, but I mentioned something scummy as well. If it continues, their need to cling to and buddy Nova will easily outweigh any town cred they have.

Can you point out how I'm trying to buddy Nova

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

I don't know speedchuck or his meta or whatever but he town read and defended him far too soon. Also switched his vote to a player who isn't active instead of pursuing DDL

Do you believe that JJJ was defending a teammate, or that he knows I'm town because he's not?

Leaning towards the latter atm

Ultra posed a rather meek question in response to receiving a vote from speedchuck, and then answered his prod about his suspicion of me. Doesn't mean much to me.

Spoiler: show

DDL's knee-jerk reaction didn't look great, as someone who knows me. Ultra doesn't look bad for the reaction, though he/she seems a little focused on Nova for some reason when I look at the ISO.
JJJ reacted exactly as expected.

I'll just let everyone know I'm not going to be as active as you crazy devils. I'm in another game and I wasn't a top poster in that one either.

speechuck assessed immediate reactions to his no lynch thing and was positive (or perhaps not negative) about Ultra. He tacked on an additional bit about nova though which became something he focused on later. No gripes. Follow-up prod | Continued as a suspicion -- this doesn't look to me like something a teammate drudges up on purpose since it is nuanced enough that nobody else is that likely to discover it.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Ultra] aubergine

5 hours prior to deadline

Spoiler: show

Do you have any scum reads outside of, like, DDL

Haven't read the whole game, probably not going to. Finger of suspicion right now is on:

Gemma
Owner
Ultra
Dragomir
DDL

speedchuck included Ultra in a list of five Day 1 suspects. He's already placed the vote, so his priority on that front is clear.

~~~

Conclusion: I think speedchuck looks good here.

[speedchuck]

That was Jay's analysis, [mention]DrWilgy[/mention] .

[DrWilgy]

I feel that was an unwise decision. Based on your behavior day 2, why didn't you check dragomir?

Why would Dragomir have been a wise decision?

Precedent was set in ddl's suspicion with dragomir that wouldve warranted the check, not Jack.

Breadcrumbs are important and there should be an honest effort to lay them so that your information and thinking isn't lost. The lack of this and DDL's "irony" as he called it makes his claim the equivalent of poo.

This reads like hot bull crap to me. X suspected Y, so X must check Y is not a thing. Who treats a cop role that narrowly? You made this up.

X suspected Y doesn't mean that X needs to check Y. X checks Z but should probably put some detail as to why Z was checked even if they are suspect to Y.

"I'll figure Z out later." Would've been a great way to indicate as such. It's a matter of breadcrumbs. Also I do. The cop is a very important role and shpuld be treated as such.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

JJJ has been my top town read pretty much all game, for much the same reason as Mac. And I am voting for him at the moment. I'm not going to explain why. Deal with it.

This.

You voted him despite him being your top town read, for reasons you did not explain. I wasn't sure if you were waiting for a reaction or something.

[nutella]

Softball tonight, be back later

Haha get it

[speedchuck]

JJJ has been my top town read pretty much all game, for much the same reason as Mac. And I am voting for him at the moment. I'm not going to explain why. Deal with it.

This.

You voted him despite him being your top town read, for reasons you did not explain. I wasn't sure if you were waiting for a reaction or something.

No and yes.

I voted for him saying he "HAS" been my top town read. That wasn't present tense.

But I was looking for a reaction. I'm always doing that.

[speedchuck]

Working on a post, gimme a bit.

[speedchuck]

Here's the list of players:

Dragomir
Dragon D Luffy
JaggedJimmyJay
DrWilgy
Macdougall
Owner of a Lonely Heart
rundontwalk2
speedchuck
nutella

We have three scum left. Let's iterate the list according to my thought processes:

Bring out the relative townfirms:

Dragon D Luffy
Macdougall
speedchuck
Dragomir
JaggedJimmyJay
DrWilgy
Owner of a Lonely Heart
rundontwalk2
nutella

Three of those six are scum. Here are my options:

If I assume BOTH 'lurkers' (the former AFK MP and RDW), then that STILL leaves us with an active wolf.

Dragomir
JaggedJimmyJay
Owner of a Lonely Heart
nutella
DrWilgy
rundontwalk2

That's not even a good assumption, because that's what scum might want us to think, but it's an assumption some are dealing with. The easy thing to do would be to say that Drago, Wilgy, and RDW are our scum, end of story, yay we're done.

I don't buy it.

We've lynched two lurkers and a ??? (Gemma) since Ultra, and somehow avoided the two that are actually scum? Bull crap. Someone's funneling us the wrong way, or perhaps we have more than one deepwolf. With that in mind, let's look at the POE:

Dragomir
JaggedJimmyJay
Owner of a Lonely Heart
nutella
DrWilgy
rundontwalk2

Six people, three of them scum. Dragomir has the whole 'too scummy to be scum' thing going on, and maybe I should just say "it looks and smells like a wolf, must be a wolf" and vote him. Owner's scumhunting makes no sense to me, and that's a meta town read, but I've only played one game with her. Nutella is tunnelling me as only town nutella usually does. Jay is impossible for me to read as scum, according to a recent game I've played with him on another forum.
And then we have RDW who seems almost as scummy as JessieKreuger did, and Wilgy who has been a little mix of good and bad.

So why am I paranoid on JJJ instead of nutella or Owner?
Maybe because I'm stupid. But here goes:

JJJ produces better results as town. Sorry, but 'tis true. It's not fair, but it colors my perspective.
JJJ gets nightkilled earlier as town. No idea why Jack or Epi (whichever was the kill) got killed over him.
Early suspicions in this game on JJJ were about the lack of interactive reads. Jay dropped his pressure on the thread and did that. Then DDL suspected him for that. Might seem like JJJ can't win, but he might be pivoting to adapt a bit.
JJJ practically NO U'd me when I suspected him, or at least it seemed that way at the time. Suddenly the whole game turned on me. It was weird, especially with his pivot on my relation to Ultra.
JJJ doesn't give me the idea of someone with a small POE. I actually don't know what it is right now. JJJ is almost in MYLO right now and I have no idea what his SOLUTION of the game looks like.

None of this is really FAIR to Jay, and that's why I'm unsure and looking to work with others and figure this out. I'd love to accept Jay at face value like Mac did and say "Jay is doing Jay things." But I can't because I saw Jay do Jay things a month or two ago, and he got hit by a serial killer who thought he was town.

-

TL;DR It would be easy to say Drago, RDW, and Wilgy are the scum, and I'm terrified of the easy route because it's gotten us in a bad situation. When the game is going so badly, I look to the town leaders and see what the heck is going wrong.

Points against reading Jay as scum:-
I seem to be one of the only two that are even paranoid about him. There are better town players than me in this game.
-Ultra would have had to bus him based on interactions.

That second one is a big one.

[speedchuck]

If Jay isn't scum, who are the deepwolves?

[MacDougall]

That's a mighty fine post there speedchuck. Mighty fine.

I feel like we are at a point where we have to work out whether we are playing on easy mode or hard mode.

It does indeed feel like hard mode. If this were hard mode who are the Mafia?

[MacDougall]

Hard mode = Jay, Speedchuck, Nutella

[Dragomir]

Dragomir, thoughts on DrWilgy, go

He's aight.

In what way? What do you like?

Don't really like anything, neither do I hate anything.

[Dragomir]

I was asked last DP by JJJ if I'd rather lynch Jessie or Speedchuck. My answer is Speed.

Clearly Owner is still your preference. Where does speedchuck stand today?

Teammates with Owner.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Then DDL suspected him for that. Might seem like JJJ can't win, but he might be pivoting to adapt a bit.

If that means something I was already feeling iffy about Jay before he started dropping the ISOs. I think my GTH was the first time I manifested that. I just didn't feel the same thing I felt in Steely Dan. And comparing people in two different games is something I enjoy doing and seems to work (I once nailed Quin in two games at once by doing that).

[Dragon D. Luffy]

-Ultra would have had to bus him based on interactions.

That second one is a big one.

New campaign for 2019:

Stop giving scum teams easy wins by bussing.

[VOTE: JJJ] aubergine

[Dragon D. Luffy]

No, seriously. Recently I lost a game as a civ because no one wanted to believe Quin would bus a teammate on Day 1. Earlier I lost another because no one would believe scum Golden and TH would spend the game attacking each other. Bussing works in this site because we let it work.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ produces better results as town. Sorry, but 'tis true. It's not fair, but it colors my perspective.

Sometimes. There are Shockheaded Peters where I can't miss, and there are Assassination Classrooms where I can't hit.

JJJ gets nightkilled earlier as town. No idea why Jack or Epi (whichever was the kill) got killed over him.

This really isn't true. Over the course of my playing career something I have often commented about, including on this site, is the fact that I don't get night killed early very often. I have never understood why, but that's the way it has been on both RYM and The Syndicate. There were a couple cases earlier this year (like your team offing me first in SP) in which that trend was bucked, but the trend persists overall. Even in Steely Dan when my reads were pretty money for most of the game, I didn't get killed until Night 6.

It's also possible in this game that I was killed on Night 1 were it not for Lux's jail.

Early suspicions in this game on JJJ were about the lack of interactive reads. Jay dropped his pressure on the thread and did that. Then DDL suspected him for that. Might seem like JJJ can't win, but he might be pivoting to adapt a bit.

I don't care about this. I've done what I feel is best each phase given the time available.

JJJ practically NO U'd me when I suspected him, or at least it seemed that way at the time. Suddenly the whole game turned on me. It was weird, especially with his pivot on my relation to Ultra.

The game is different now. I cannot justify letting you slide on the same things that I had been comfortable with on Day 2.

JJJ doesn't give me the idea of someone with a small POE. I actually don't know what it is right now. JJJ is almost in MYLO right now and I have no idea what his SOLUTION of the game looks like.

I don't either. I'm building a new solution today. My last three votes have been errant. Reassessment is necessary.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I was asked last DP by JJJ if I'd rather lynch Jessie or Speedchuck. My answer is Speed.

Clearly Owner is still your preference. Where does speedchuck stand today?

Teammates with Owner.

Gun to your head, who fills the third mafioso slot alongside those two?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

I don't know speedchuck or his meta or whatever but he town read and defended him far too soon. Also switched his vote to a player who isn't active instead of pursuing DDL

Bingo. Ultra voted JJJ but threw shit at speedchuck.

Should JJJ show to be a civilian, it "proves" Ultra wrong.

Textbook bullshit.

I'm voting speedchuck.

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

I don't know speedchuck or his meta or whatever but he town read and defended him far too soon. Also switched his vote to a player who isn't active instead of pursuing DDL

I want everyone's opinions on this post when it is convenient.

I want a speedchuck lynch.

I want speedchuck discussed. Please and thank you.

We should just lynch mp7 today

No thanks. We have Ultra as bad. I'd rather see speedchuck lynched.

You name MP7.

Why not Tsaiah?

Maybe this is why Epignosis was killed before me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

DDL gripes about speedchuck waffling around me, so he pulls out this bullshit dissertation about me still being alive, the town struggling (and by extension attributing that to my play), reducing my concerns with him to a "No U" -- absolutely fuck that -- and squeezing me into this "pivot" accusation. No thanks.

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I mean what the hell:

JJJ produces better results as town
JJJ gets night killed earlier as town

Forgetting for a moment whether those assertions are even valid, the former can easily explain the latter. Why kill me if I suck?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Also I need to note that I'm not willing to let RDW live if he doesn't make his post-finals return to the game.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

One reason I could see a mafia avoiding to kill Jay is simply because all civs become vanilla after Night 4.

Why kill Jay then when you can kill him later?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Something tells me one of Jay/Speed is bad and figuring out which one is the key to winning this game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'll be the first to grant that I have not had my best game here. Even my Ultra vote wasn't one I put a ton of thought into; it was late in the day and I had to make a judgment call between a few wagons. It was as lucky as it was "good". I am not as effective at this game when I am unable to play it my way to the letter.

[speedchuck]

Something tells me one of Jay/Speed is bad and figuring out which one is the key to winning this game.

It's not MYLO today.

If I get lynched today, kill the hell out of Jay tomorrow.

If he pretends my earlier posts was opportunistic, which is the route he's taking, then he's bad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If he pretends my earlier posts was opportunistic, which is the route he's taking, then he's bad.

"Opportunistic" isn't the right word. DDL gave you a clear prompt to talk about me. I don't believe in many of the things that you said.

Particularly talking about my being alive right now as a problem is hard to take seriously.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]nutella[/mention], when you joined the game you said you'd had a theory that Gemma and I were both bad. Tell me about that, and more generally why you were beefing with Gemma

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]Owner of a Lonely Heart[/mention], you left us a number of posts in sequence pertaining to speedchuck suspicion, and you left your vote on Dragomir. Where exactly do you stand on the two of them right now?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I hope people can talk to me in real time for the remainder of the phase. In Steely Dan I provided the massive ISO on a mafioso and people didn't want to read it. So let's talk.

[speedchuck]

One reason I could see a mafia avoiding to kill Jay is simply because all civs become vanilla after Night 4.

Why kill Jay then when you can kill him later?

... explain?

Oh, because the protections will be gone.

[speedchuck]

I'm about to eat dinner, but otherwise am here to chat.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That was a fun page to read. I sympathize with DDL's urge to follow his instinct on Jay, but I don't actually share that instinct at this point and I quite liked Jay's response. I see regular ol' hardass town Jay here.

What is "hardass town Jay" and where did you see him?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

One reason I could see a mafia avoiding to kill Jay is simply because all civs become vanilla after Night 4.

Why kill Jay then when you can kill him later?

... explain?

Oh, because the protections will be gone.

How does this post even get written lol

[speedchuck]

One reason I could see a mafia avoiding to kill Jay is simply because all civs become vanilla after Night 4.

Why kill Jay then when you can kill him later?

... explain?

Oh, because the protections will be gone.

How does this post even get written lol

Stream of consciousness, like most of my posts

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In case y'all try and lynch me I am town tracker, MacDougall didn't target anyone night 2.

What inspired you to track Mac?

[speedchuck]

JJJ practically NO U'd me when I suspected him, or at least it seemed that way at the time. Suddenly the whole game turned on me. It was weird, especially with his pivot on my relation to Ultra.

The game is different now. I cannot justify letting you slide on the same things that I had been comfortable with on Day 2.

Bull.

I'm not asking you to 'let me slide' on it. I'm asking for you not to flip your opinion on the SAME EXACT posts. I don't generally see someone put up some posts and say "yeah this looks town" and then use the SAME posts to say "this is why he looks bad."

Sure, later content can invalidate those posts, but the case on me that Owner started up today and that put the spotlight on me isn't about D1 actions that aren't enough to make me townread through D5. It's about the SAME D1 posts being used to read me completely differently.