The Syndicate

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I have nothing to add

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:22 am
Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:35 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:56 am [VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

Today is super busy I'll catch up later.

But I maintain that self-votes are bad.
this is the best case of genuine distancing i have for speed and lc. this could've caught on. it really could've at the beginning of d2
I guess "genuine distancing" qualifies this in the way you intend it, but generally I see "distancing" as a term solely for use for two Mafia teammates. This is exonerating speedchuck for you?

I feel like the way she meant it is reasonably clear in context and your nitpicking about the exact wording not being flawless is a bad look.

Samesies

I mean if the Desmond person claims and the doc decides to protect them without saying anything, sure whatever. But there are problems with that too, namely we don't know if there's a doctor and we don't want to bait out the Desmond claim in case you're mafia and it helps you win.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:11 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:09 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:06 pm if there's a town doctor or something this could perhaps be simplified but I don't know if in this sort of situation you'd want to out the town doctor
This sounds wack. Huh?
doctor protects Desmond claim or at least threatens to

And mafia shoots the doc? No thanks

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:10 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:08 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:05 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:03 pm Is Nanook known for strange roles like that? My role is nowhere near as unusual.
did you see Mac's?
That is a cool role. And unusual... and I want to steal it for my next game.
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:06 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:05 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:03 pm Is Nanook known for strange roles like that? My role is nowhere near as unusual.
did you see Mac's?
Mac had an extremely limited (and targeted) kill paired with pretty good every other night protection, if I understand it. It was perfectly normal.
someone's lying

I mean yes, but not necessarily in these two posts. These can both be true and in character for LC and Speed.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:09 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:08 pm Maybe this was all a lesson from Nanook that he's been right all along that if we have firmly decided on a confirmed scum lynch we should just take the hammer and that further discussion time just leads to confusion and opportunity for mafia to screw us up.
But will you and Jay be here tomorrow?

No. So yeah, there is that argument for maximizing discussion time.

Maybe this was all a lesson from Nanook that he's been right all along that if we have firmly decided on a confirmed scum lynch we should just take the hammer and that further discussion time just leads to confusion and opportunity for mafia to screw us up.

ts account wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:03 pm I believe the world we are in is one in which finding Desmond is the only winning line Mafia have. Therefore, I suggest we continue with the Epignosis lynch, and if we lose in the night I will take responsibility. We cannot play around scum Tony if they are telling the truth here unless we lynch them, and I personally believe that is not the course of action we should take.

Yes. It's best to assume that Tony is lying, and that he needs to know who Desmond is to kill them, so the mass character claim should not happen as it could help mafia, and we should absolutely just lynch Epi today, and if we lose in the night then so be it.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:00 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:58 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:56 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:52 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:49 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:48 pm LOL ok I'm a bit confused. Tony says his role is to kill Desmond. He targets a player every odd night, and if they're Desmond, then they die. No?
No, he said that he kills the role and he doesn't have to know who they are. If he's not lying about this, it's a very broken role.
I really don't think it's that good
Not if it's town targeting town or mafia targeting mafia.

The role is either a partial win button or unusable. I guess the question is whether it makes sense to change the game from hunting and reading players to wheedling for names to make sure you aren't shooting yourself in the foot.

So no, the role doesn't make sense to me, and the way it was revealed makes less sense.
Maybe the purpose of the role is just the mindgame itself
But that's not really mafia? A reward for guts with no counterplay or chance to it.

Might be getting too far off into game theory here, which is something I love. The question is, is Tony telling the truth, and is he town?

Well, my theory is that the point of this role was just to have this ridiculous discussion, and that Tony is not really supposed to use it at all.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:58 pm
Maybe the purpose of the role is just the mindgame itself

Yeah I'm pretty sure this has to be the answer. I solved it guys. Nanook is just screwing with our heads. Knowing how he likes to think several levels ahead as a player (e.g. what he did in the baseball heist) it checks out.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:56 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:52 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:49 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:48 pm LOL ok I'm a bit confused. Tony says his role is to kill Desmond. He targets a player every odd night, and if they're Desmond, then they die. No?
No, he said that he kills the role and he doesn't have to know who they are. If he's not lying about this, it's a very broken role.
I really don't think it's that good
Not if it's town targeting town or mafia targeting mafia.

The role is either a partial win button or unusable. I guess the question is whether it makes sense to change the game from hunting and reading players to wheedling for names to make sure you aren't shooting yourself in the foot.

So no, the role doesn't make sense to me, and the way it was revealed makes less sense.

Maybe the purpose of the role is just the mindgame itself

I find it unlikely though. Why would you just have the ability to decide to use it on Night 1 and kill a mafia for free.

Yeah no I take that thing about balance back. That is absolutely wack. Lol

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:55 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:53 pm Tony, you gonna use it tonight?
I'd really hope to have more information before I use it, but if it looks certain that I'll be lynched in two days if I don't then I really have no choice.

Well I guess we just have to hope that you're town and Desmond is mafia. Which to be fair is probably the version that would make the closest to some sense balance-wise

I guess there's just like... a bit of a mindgame involved.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:50 pm I suppose that would make more sense. In line with the anti monitor from GoC

So, that's what it really is, right? You were just messing with us?

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:51 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:49 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:48 pm LOL ok I'm a bit confused. Tony says his role is to kill Desmond. He targets a player every odd night, and if they're Desmond, then they die. No?
No, he said that he kills the role and he doesn't have to know who they are. If he's not lying about this, it's a very broken role.
OH, so he can just make the kill happen by snapping his Gauntlet, but he doesn't know if it's Civ or bad? That is wack.

Yeah, as Jay put it, it's pretty wack because if it's a civ it just loses the game and if it's mafia it's just a free mafia kill. And if he's mafia it's just a free extra kill that would also win them the game.

The way LC put it would make a bit more sense though, so I think it is reasonably likely that Tony was lying about that.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:48 pm LOL ok I'm a bit confused. Tony says his role is to kill Desmond. He targets a player every odd night, and if they're Desmond, then they die. No?

No, he said that he kills the role and he doesn't have to know who they are. If he's not lying about this, it's a very broken role.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:46 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:41 pm LC is gonna be so confused after he catches up
LOL why? So far a lot of the talk is about you using a specific-character-kill. I don't really get the confusion, maybe it's because you slowplayed the claim so much. I've seen that type of role as both town and Mafia aligned before, and it's not that uncomon.

i tink uz need 2 luk closr

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:38 pm Host post:
A character's alignment in the video game(s) is not tied to their alignment in this game (i.e., Ezio can be mafia, Shay can be town, etc.), and alignments are randed after character assignment.
Characters are randomized. Nothing there says anything about roles. So it depends on whether Nanook had different versions of each role available for alignment, as I usually do if I'm theorizing a setup like this.
Given the weirdness of a 'kill desmond' role (assuming you're finally telling the truth, there) I wouldn't count on that.

Jinxed

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:35 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:33 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:32 pm
Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:30 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:29 pm
Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:28 pm
ts account wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:27 pm

...I just said that.
oh oops

hahahahaha
Isn't that usually a 3P role though?
nah. it'd be a mechanic that incentivizes town to hide their roles
So a scumrole.

Yeah that would make a lot more sense.
alignments are distributed randomly to roles.
Are they?

Ehhhh, the OP says "alignments are randed after character assignment" but that doesn't necessarily mean that once alignment is assigned the role isn't adapted to fit the alignment. Otherwise there could be roles that just don't make sense in the alignment they ended up in. Like in Fire Emblem, we got specific extra things as part of the roles because we were mafia. Right?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:31 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:28 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:27 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:26 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:25 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:24 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:24 pm That sounds like something I would do... on D1 or D2. Not in LYLO.
LyLo is the only time it makes sense goofball
I don't fake traps in LYLO. It's not a good time to start causing a ruckus if you're town.
I...what? Did you read my post?
Yes?
I think you may have misread it. I am accusing you of being scum who fell into a trap set by a town Tony.
Oh. I was referring to Tony's side of things. The laying of the supposed trap. It didn't occur to me to respond to your actual accusation.

lol

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:30 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:29 pm
Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:28 pm
ts account wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:27 pm
Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:27 pm oooooooooooh, what if tony wants to know who desmond is because they have to know who's desmond to kill them?

we have mechanics like that on ffr
...I just said that.
oh oops

hahahahaha
Isn't that usually a 3P role though?
nah. it'd be a mechanic that incentivizes town to hide their roles

Having just played Avalon for the first time, it's like Mordred, who is mafia, not independent. Yes, I have also seen 3P roles with a similar deal, but I'm preeeetty sure the OP confirms there are no 3P in this game? As in he said there are explicitly only two factions

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:28 pm
ts account wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:27 pm
Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:27 pm oooooooooooh, what if tony wants to know who desmond is because they have to know who's desmond to kill them?

we have mechanics like that on ffr
...I just said that.
oh oops

hahahahaha

Yeah that is certainly a possibility here.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:27 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:26 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:25 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:24 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:24 pm That sounds like something I would do... on D1 or D2. Not in LYLO.
LyLo is the only time it makes sense goofball
I don't fake traps in LYLO. It's not a good time to start causing a ruckus if you're town.
I...what? Did you read my post?
Yes?

I think you may have misread it. I am accusing you of being scum who fell into a trap set by a town Tony.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:26 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:58 pm Wagonomics is terrible.

Equity is terrible.

EV is terrible.

Sticking an exclamation mark into a two-word phrase to indicate a hypothetical e.g. scum!JJJ is terrible.

"____ is always mafia here" is terrible.

WIM is terrible.

Lingo is terrible.
Wow, thank you for saying that out loud. I don't use any of these terms, and almost always find them to be a) terrible, or b) playing Mafia at a different level than I play, which is intimidating.

Can you please say something about the relevant content in the thread? This is a very awkward time to be OT-bantering.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:25 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:24 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:24 pm That sounds like something I would do... on D1 or D2. Not in LYLO.
LyLo is the only time it makes sense goofball
I don't fake traps in LYLO. It's not a good time to start causing a ruckus if you're town.

I...what? Did you read my post?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:24 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:20 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:18 pm I was specifically wary of claiming rolenames because I thought it might give mafia power.

Tony lied and said he'd get a cop out of it. I figured that's fine. And hey, my role shouldn't be linked to his.

Now he can just kill a particular name, only on odd nights? How is that a town-role? How does it make sense? And why would he reveal that at this point?

Forgive me if these have already been answered, but holy crap I thought today would be simple.
What if it's a trap that you fell right into in displaying your eagerness to find any reason to lynch someone other than Epi? Maybe this is your dream opportunity to mislynch and win.
That sounds like something I would do... on D1 or D2. Not in LYLO.

Uh, my point is that it's lylo though.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:22 pm Could there be soup involved in all of this?

God I hope not. What a terrible mechanic.

I suppose it could easily be one of them and LC though.

I think it is still possible that both Tony and Speed are mafia here. Maybe I'm overthinking this whole drama, but I can see it.

ts account wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:21 pm Here is what I think.
Tony is mafia, and their kill is not tied to killing Raymond, but will kill somebody if they are Raymond. This is possibly mafia's only out to not be chain lynched, and so Tony made a last ditch effort to find Raymond to win tonight. Is this plausible?

Yeah, that's plausible.

Stay the course, everyone. Lynch Epi. Don't feed Tony.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:20 pm Guys if the mafia team had some super secret kill that they could just win with after this lynch, then there's no reason for the present drama to even exist.

They let us lynch literally whoever, their teammate or otherwise, and then use that kill to win. This is silly.

Oh. Yep. They'd win either way. Therefore there is no reason for us to lynch anyone other than Epignosis.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:18 pm I was specifically wary of claiming rolenames because I thought it might give mafia power.

Tony lied and said he'd get a cop out of it. I figured that's fine. And hey, my role shouldn't be linked to his.

Now he can just kill a particular name, only on odd nights? How is that a town-role? How does it make sense? And why would he reveal that at this point?

Forgive me if these have already been answered, but holy crap I thought today would be simple.

What if it's a trap that you fell right into in displaying your eagerness to find any reason to lynch someone other than Epi? Maybe this is your dream opportunity to mislynch and win.

ts account wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:15 pm What does linki: mean, by the way? I have seen it a lot and I can not imagine what it could represent.

It's a silly term for when new posts pop up while you're writing your post and you are reacting to those posts in the preview function. The original term was "linkitis" and it was named after a user on Lostpedia named Link.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:14 pm I'm not counter-claiming, I'm calling Tony a liar based on his own posts.

Letting scum with a free extra kill live right now will cost the game.

Yeah, but if we jump to the wrong conclusion about him and he's town, lynching him will also cost the game. We can't be too careful about this.

This is so ridiculous holy shit

[mention]speedchuck[/mention] [mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] please just tell us if you are mafia so we all can stop feeling like idiots

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:12 pm
ts account wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:40 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:37 pm What if he wasn't confident enough in any of his reads to justify killing someone?
That should not be a real thought. A vigshot is simply a public cop check. It is always beneficial to use it if one is given to you (and funnygurl is right in her post, that night 1 seems more optimal to use it than night 2, if macdougall was indeed given the option).

I STRONGLY disagree with that reductive definition for reasons that should be clear in this situation.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:09 pm Chances are then Speed is Desmond and also scum, correct?
Ooh cool idea: Desmond has the alternate power (can kill lucy on even nights) but then it’s only a cool mechanic if both are town and then someone just ends up dead

wat

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:11 pm Tony seems a pretty obvious lynch tbh. If we don't we're boned.

linki: he told me he had a cop.
Sorry I'm quite behind.

...is that all you meant about him being a liar

I am disappointed

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:04 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:59 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:54 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:53 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:49 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:45 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:44 pm Confirm existence of.
At this point I think you're going to need to expand.
I’ve hinted to it. It’s underwhelming. As to your previous question, I’ll point out that Mac had a Vig shot that could only hit people with pirate ships, something which is currently looking to be very limited (and thus far solely town).
but if mac was killed on a night that he also killed then we know at least one mafia member must have a ship.

trust me i did too much research into this.
Yes and I maintain this didn’t happen.
Why?
1) Mac thinks he’s getting killed night 1, he made sure of it. He used the power that night. How do we know? Largely we don’t, but it’s agreed that that makes more sense. It’s quite possible that Epi targeted him with an additional kill that night and failed, or just tried to block him. Epi also needs a reason to lie about his night 1 action. Maybe it’s so he can get counterclaimed by his teammate to secure an easy win, maybe it’s because he had more nefarious purposes. If Mac didn’t use the power it’s agreed he got very paranoid night 2 after being in BTSC with Ted for a day, which is almost confirmed. Then scum would have had to get lucky enough to target him with a pirate ship kill — and on current proportions it’s unlikely they have more than one— and he would have had to turned on someone in his towncore for no real reason.

Okay I'm lost.

In a vacuum/based on reads and thread contribution rather than any claiming related shit, I would absolutely name Speed as scum rather than Tony if I had to pick one. But I need speed to provide more context.

ts account wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:04 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:03 pm I have doubts that the claim is even true, so that threat rings hollow.
It is even possible that Epignosis is the scum with the second kill, and Tony is outting to save them. There is too much uncertainty around Tony to comfortably lynch them instead of Epignosis.

That's a thought.

Speed countering this is very interesting since until now I thought the two were scum together. Now it very much looks like a dichotomy. MORE INFORMATION IS REQUIRED BEEP BOOP

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:01 pm Liar. [VOTE: Tony] aubergine

Sorry I can't be around today. I'll try for better tomorrow.

Please give us something more than this

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:00 pm Tony's entire presence here runs contrary to so much else that I almost have to believe him.

Yeah I kinda feel this despite myself. But again, if he's town I feel like Desmond has to be mafia which as Jay said is a free kill and he should use it, but if there is any chance at all Desmond is town he shouldn't use it because it just loses the game (unless mafia target the same person)... which is so silly.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:38 pm Someone tell me how Tony's claimed role makes any sense whatsoever for a civilian if Desmond is also a civilian -- especially in a 9 vs. 4 game

it doesn't. Something isn't adding up and it's because Tony is mafia. But he's right, if he is, we are fucked if we don't lynch him today lol. But we can't do that unless we come to absolute certainty that he is scum.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:38 pm
ts account wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:34 pm Note that, if Desmond is town, wolves achieve parity.
note that the only way this can be stopped if I’m scum is by lynching me over Epi.

uh
hm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:37 pm
Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:35 pm your main power being the ability to kill one person on and odd night seems... at least for a game as role heavy as this, kinda weak
I think it sounds incredibly powerful.

It either A) ruins the civilian numbers in one go or B) eliminates a mafioso with no questions asked

The swing potential of such a thing is immense. The design doesn't make sense to me if A) is even possible though.

Yeah this is wack

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:09 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:07 pm We have about 24 hours, just to ensure we're mindful of the clock.
fine i'll get started on this case

i can actually be here for eod this time btw 8) unless it's like... earlier than 7PM EDT

It's at 3:30 EDT

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