The Syndicate

Ultra and speedchuck

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Ultra called speedchuck's entry awkward and shaded the no lynch thing. Okay.

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Like I suggested earlier, this looks to me like an ironic sort of TMI on speedchuck, by way of accusing me of having TMI on speedchuck. For him to be so fierce that I shouldn't "chainsaw defend" speedchuck implies that he knows speedchuck is a civilian.

There are a number of other posts relating in some way back to this. I won't highlight them all.

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I don't know what this is.

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Ultra posed a rather meek question in response to receiving a vote from speedchuck, and then answered his prod about his suspicion of me. Doesn't mean much to me.

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speechuck assessed immediate reactions to his no lynch thing and was positive (or perhaps not negative) about Ultra. He tacked on an additional bit about nova though which became something he focused on later. No gripes. Follow-up prod | Continued as a suspicion -- this doesn't look to me like something a teammate drudges up on purpose since it is nuanced enough that nobody else is that likely to discover it.

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5 hours prior to deadline

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speedchuck included Ultra in a list of five Day 1 suspects. He's already placed the vote, so his priority on that front is clear.

~~~

Conclusion: I think speedchuck looks good here.

Ultra and Owner

Nothing from Ultra.

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We got Millionaire lifelines.

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Owner griped with nova here for his perspective of Ultra (via speedchuck), and she drew some immediate conclusions. Regardless of nova's alignment, Ultra emerges neutral or good. So there is some implied defense here.

That appears to be it. Her final vote was on Epignosis.

~~~

Conclusion: These things are boring when there's so little to say. I have no reason to discount them as teammates.

Ultra and MacDougall

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This is it for Ultra. It's barely relevant chatter. Meh. That's it for both of them actually.

~~~

Conclusion: Again I have nothing to talk about. I have no reason to discount a teammate relationship.

Interactions of Ultra with JessieKruger, M Plus 7, rundontwalk2, Soneji, and Tsaiah

Knocking this group out in one go.

Nothing either way for JK, MP, or Tsaiah.

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This is it for RDW, and it's only relevant indirectly. The question is a softball about RDW (not to him). So, okay. Sure.

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Soneji griped with Owner's post which related to Ultra. I do agree with the basic premise that pre-flip associations aren't always the best idea, though the wording of this accusation seems a little much for that. The associative relevance is limited anyway.

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I asked Soneji to talk to me about the prevailing wagons a little over an hour before the deadline, and these were his takes. He was technically negative on all four, and he added a caveat to the Ultra read to cancel that. That's standout and not in a great way. Among that specific set of players he decared Epignosis his preferred lynch.

~~~

Conclusions: I have just about nothing to say for any of them other than Soneji. The RDW thing is close to meaningless to me. They're all valid suspects by default. Soneji emerges looking a bit worse to me.

Interactions of Ultra and Luxurious

Nothing from Ultra.

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Lux questioned speed on his gripe with Ultra (the latter's focus on nova). Lux's own stance isn't clarified to this point. I take little from this.

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Lux drew a teammate connection between Ultra and Gemma and placed a vote for the latter. Moments like this are iffy given that, should the connection prove errant and Gemma flip civilian, a lynch of Gemma would then exonerate Ultra of that specific suspicion. Not my favorite thing. The two of them are reiterated as the mafia reads in Lux's ensuing reads list. Then Ultra was swapped with Owner. I think. [mention]Luxurious[/mention] please clarify what exactly you meant here.

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Lux questioned nova on his suspicion of Ultra and made a token request to be directed to relevant posts. Whatever

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Lux reiterated suspicion of Ultra five hours prior to EOD and tacked on a gripe with Owner. In this case the mention of Ultra seems rather shoehorned, if I am interpreting the pronouns correctly: "Gemma did this neat this that Ultra (of all people) didn't do".

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This was the last of the five Ultra votes, and it came seven minutes prior to the deadline. It isn't worth much.

~~~

Conclusion: I have some concerns here and would call this interaction teammate-compatible. Some clarification on that Ultra/Owner thing in the reads list would be nice.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 11:43 am Are you really going to start making me do them?

I have exams to proctor, a playoff hockey game to attend, and another game with an earlier deadline. I’ll get there when I get there.

By all means do your own. I’m usually the only one who bothers and thus it becomes my obligation instead of the civilians’ obligation.

I'll have to return to this later.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 10:26 pm Let me ask this then: does one townie thing in an iso of bad automatically give someone town or scum equity

That depends upon what the townie thing is and what the ISO of bad is. Everything is circumstantial. Interactions are a piece of a larger picture: sometimes people who look terrible in those things by way of evidence also happen to look great by way of tone and authenticity. In the specific case of Gemma, participant in the 2019 tournament scrimmage, I have a number of things that don't inspire me much (to call them "bad" is not entirely appropriate) and some other thing that I like.

Interactions of Ultra and Jackofhearts2005

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Jack had given Ultra shit for his vote on me (twice, repeated in caps lock). The question he posed at the end was a good one given that Ultra had been so narrow in his attacks on me despite the conversation on DDL and NoLynchGate covering a breadth of others. Ultra never got around to responding. I think it's a nice moment for Jack.

This exchange was Ultra's only direct interaction with Jack.

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Jack's initial rainbow aligned Ultra in the bad category alongside DDL and I. It's a fun threesome given that it reflects all sides of the interactions being discussed in the previous point. Jack expanded with a potential DDL/Ultra connection.

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Suspicion reiterated. k
Again

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Jack's vote came about four hours prior to the deadline and was essentially gone for the remainder of the day.

~~~

Conclusion: I think this is a net positive for Jack. Ultra's final words in this game coincide with Jack pestering him, and I don't beef with the way Jack went about it.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 10:12 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 10:08 pm
Luxurious wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 10:05 pm Hey JJJ wants the point of all the analysis if you’re just gonna be like “they could be teammates but they could also NOT be teammates”
I prefer to construct a POE (hi speedchuck). If all I find are a handful of people who look good, then that's still productive. Who knows what the rest will tell me?

Some ambiguity is to be expected given the mafioso had like 20 posts and only talked about three people during his lifespan.
Okay so you are doing something with them.

I was reading Gemma’s again and ended up wondering why you think face value was more important than interaction, especially if there’s an attempt for one teammate to interact and the other one isnt.

As of this moment, Gemma's quick blurt of protection speaks to me more loudly than the ambiguous pudding in that interaction. When you look at the two of them what do you see?

Luxurious wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 10:05 pm Hey JJJ wants the point of all the analysis if you’re just gonna be like “they could be teammates but they could also NOT be teammates”

I prefer to construct a POE (hi speedchuck). If all I find are a handful of people who look good, then that's still productive. Who knows what the rest will tell me?

Some ambiguity is to be expected given the mafioso had like 20 posts and only talked about three people during his lifespan.

I'm sticking a compilation of the final votes here for my own reference.

Soneji - Dragomir
Dragomir - DDL
MacDougall - Epignosis
Owner - Epignosis
rundontwalk2 - MacDougall
DDL - nova
Epignosis - nova
Gemma - Owner
speedchuck - Ultra
Luxurious - Ultra
nova - Ultra
Jack - Ultra

Interactions of Ultra and Gemma

Nothing direct from Ultra. This may become a trend given his narrow focus.

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Gemma dug in a bit on speedchuck for his read of Ultra. This means more re: speedchuck, and I am not inclined to take much from it.

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Technically a defense of Ultra. I do think the basic premise of Gemma's question is fair. It's also an easy question to ask. Meh.

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Gemma dropped a vote on Ultra in response to his vote for me. This followed soon after speedchuck questioned the vote and Jack criticized it. Gemma was following the flow of momentum here. It'd be nice to know what the tally looked like in this moment.

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I believe this is in reference to Owner. Sometimes the context is difficult to ascertain given Gemma's style for scatter-posting (this is not a criticism, do your thing). There is both shade and defense for Owner by way of the latter's handling of Ultra and the Ultra case. I could assert there's an effort here to draw a link between Owner and Ultra, and that can be a teammate thing. It's not something that inspires confidence in me as I type it.

~~~

Conclusion: I find some of this difficult to interpret. I can make a case that they're teammates, and that's enough for POE purposes. Gemma may be best judged at face value.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 9:48 pm My reads. Owner, DDL, and Jack are scum. Also, I feel sad how y'all are ignoring what I pointed out about Ultra and Owner being buddies.

I'll get to it. Meanwhile, shout your read into the heavens. Let it never be unheard. Be the voice that cannot be ignored.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 9:45 pm Sorry Jay I am going to do my own analysis. I don't have the mental capacity to absorb yours.

Wonderful, fabulous, fantastic.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 9:42 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 9:05 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:26 pm First of all, you protected JJJ over Nova? Second of all, how do you know the heal was successful? Could be more reasons for why nobody died last night aside from you protecting your target.

I still sus Owner and DDL pretty heavily. RDW is someone I'm taking interest in as well. I'm finna go back and read Ultra's interactions.
This whole post bugs me, particularly the highlighted bit. Did you try to kill me instead of nova to avoid this result?
The hell is this question?

I don't know why Gemma is required to protect nova.

Interactions of Ultra and Epignosis

Nothing from Ultra.

Nothing from Epignosis.

~~~

Conclusion:

They're technically compatible teammates in the absence of a tangible reason to the contrary. I don't think total ignorance is generally Epi's style though.

I'll get to the relevant interaction eventually, but I keep seeing this and want to say it:

Ultra wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:09 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:02 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:58 pmPossibly, by you.
I don't need "possibly". What are you referring to?

Ultra wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:58 pmDefend someone by attacking their accuser.

Since you're here elaborate on that vote
I think DDL got snagged by a booby trap. No lynches are horrendous, and I thought it looked evident that speedchuck wasn't serious in his recommendation.
I think holding someone accountable for saying Day Zeros are less valuable is a bit pushy, especially considering they in fact are. Now, if someone was using "Wait, I said that D0, it doesn't count!" as a defense, or as a reason to dismiss a case, that is categorically scummy. But outside of that context, there's no apparent scum motive to stating the obvious, other than perhaps appearing blendy.

Reaction posts can also carry a scum motive, so this sounds like TMI on speedchuck

This sounds like TMI on speedchuck.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 9:24 pm
Gemma wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 9:09 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 9:03 pm
Gemma wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:14 pm I saved JJJ last night.

That you've blurted this out promptly despite the ambiguity of a non-kill in this setup strikes me as a genuine instinct.
This setup is honestly crap lol.
Agreed.

Agreed.

Interactions of Ultra and Dragon D. Luffy

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This one can actually be tacked into the previous Dragomir interaction too. I threw poop at the two Drags and Ultra responded by suggesting that I was shading people over "NAI". It's implicitly defensive of DDL and Dragomir.

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This post is worded in such a way that I struggle to follow it, fake or not. Either way it's again an implicit defense of DDL by way of shitting on me.

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Another defense, this time explicit. Ultra was comfortable planting his flag in DDL's camp early and often. My immediate interpretation is that he wanted to capitalize on my "chainsaw defense" thing as the origin of a case by discrediting my suspicion of a guy who would eventually be shown as civilian -- an extended sort of TMI. Decent for DDL.

There are a few other mentions of DDL. They appear incidental to me as they're just associated with his attacks against me. Moving on.

I don't see any mentions of Ultra by DDL.

~~~

Conclusion: Have your dollop of WIFOM -- it's a consistent defensive message by Ultra on behalf of DDL, sometimes implied and eventually explicitly stated. I am inclined to say this reflects well enough on DDL. I was Ultra's punching bag, and those punches can be directly tied to my attack on DDL; it seems as though he knew I was wrong.

Interactions of Ultra and Dragomir

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There's a softball. That's it for Ultra. Dragomir responded -- nothing to it. Indeed that's it for Dragomir as well before the lynch.

~~~

Conclusion: There's nothing to talk about. Dragomir could be Ultra's teammate.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 9:07 pm I don't see any interactive analysis. Civ Jay would have had those made during the night, and ready to publish at first light

You must be bad.

I took that time to play the other damned Mafia game.

Also it's not something I find entirely kosher given that non-admins/mods don't have the same capacity to build cases with full formatting etc. in a locked thread. JJJ plays on a level field. I'm doing the shit now anyway so kiss my ass.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:26 pm First of all, you protected JJJ over Nova? Second of all, how do you know the heal was successful? Could be more reasons for why nobody died last night aside from you protecting your target.

I still sus Owner and DDL pretty heavily. RDW is someone I'm taking interest in as well. I'm finna go back and read Ultra's interactions.

This whole post bugs me, particularly the highlighted bit. Did you try to kill me instead of nova to avoid this result?

Gemma wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:14 pm I saved JJJ last night.

That you've blurted this out promptly despite the ambiguity of a non-kill in this setup strikes me as a genuine instinct.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:24 pm
Gemma wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:20 pm
novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:11 pm [VOTE: JJJ] aubergine

I don't believe your progression on Ultra.
What's unbelievable about his progression on ultra?
Had him green after their early spat, reiterated by saying he liked his (Ultra) "assertive" tone. Never hit back at the bogus suspicions which had me unsettled, and he only started viewing him bad when I prodded him about further. He stated the lack of progression of Ultra's read even though, Ultra hadn't posted in between "I like his assertive tone" and my prodding of Jay I believe.

I'm a sucker for a new guy who wants to get in my fucking face from the start.

As it happened though, that was the only thing he seemed to care about in his posts. He picked me as punching bag based on that "chainsaw defense" thing and did not move from it. I made note of that here -- as a day progresses, the value wanes and it just becomes nothing. It ended up being about the only thing the guy did in this game. As EOD approached (and my own requirement to decide a vote approached even sooner), I was confronted with wagons on Ultra, nova, and Owner and decided he was my preference among them.

Hooray.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:22 pm You have over a 100 posts, but your presence doesn't feel that strong. Most of your posts aren't memorable, that's not something I'd have ever imagined.

There may be a tangible cause for such a thing: generally I am able to maintain that constant presence such that I am literally here constantly -- pestering people every time they show up to the thread. This time I've been relegated to a more sporadic role of catching up and talking to myself by way of finals week and being in two games.

Whatever. I'm good. It'll show.

I have to leave now. Vote stays.

Luxurious

Dragon D. Luffy
Epignosis
Jackofhearts2005
MacDougall
novaselinenever
speedchuck

JessieKruger
Tsaiah

Dragomir
Gemma
M Plus 7
Owner of a Lonely Heart
rundontwalk2
Soneji
Ultra

Tiers are alphabetical.

Gemma is still short on productivity considering that post count.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:20 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:13 pm I have about 15 minutes and then I am gone through the deadline.
Give me a rainbow

Sure. Give me a rainbow

I have about 15 minutes and then I am gone through the deadline.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:01 pm I liked the Owner stuff

Stuff from Owner or stuff about Owner? Which stuff?

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:01 pm What do you have on Mac, Jay?

Shouting and carrying on about his own shit in a way that doesn't reflect what was just seen in [not talking about another live game]. GTH good

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:52 pm Bag of mixed feelings. His case on me is absolutely shite lol, but I don't know I could see civ Epi believing that. I'm getting playful Community Epi vibes rather than flooding the thread World Flag's Epi vibes. It's light.

I just went back and briefly glanced through his posts in those games. K. I struggle to describe a clear difference. Perhaps World Flags Epi was more fond of one-liners and less interested in A Big Case (a la the one he built on you here).

It's light.

It's not my favorite thing that Dragomir posted his crusade for a DDL lynch and hasn't done anything since while the thread moves in various other directions.

Soneji wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:44 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:35 pm
Soneji wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:10 pm You could say that, I'm very familiar with DDL mislynches and his tone in later posts have been good so I'm inclined to place that over the no lynch scumtell and not pursue his lynch today.
How do you feel about the other players currently receiving votes?
nova : I can see what those pushing him are and get a slight scum vibe from him.

Owner : Thought her case against you and the pre-flip association post I quoted were wack.

Epi : Thought he was really reaching with some of his FoS's, to the point they felt fake.

Ultra : They haven't gone as hard as I would normally expect from them, no particular scum vibes though.

If Dragomir isn't happening, who among these people (or otherwise) are you most inclined to lynch?

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:19 pm All right, I'm back earlier than I expected

Whaddya think of Epi?

Soneji wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:10 pm You could say that, I'm very familiar with DDL mislynches and his tone in later posts have been good so I'm inclined to place that over the no lynch scumtell and not pursue his lynch today.

How do you feel about the other players currently receiving votes?

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:14 pm
Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:13 pm MODS, why are there two Dragon D. Luffys on Nova? Did someone change their name or what?

Sloonei
now it is back to normal...idk what happened

Sometimes the poll names glitch like that -- it usually goes away with a page refresh.

A concern about Epi's case against nova:

The crux of his beefs is that nova has asked numerous questions without follow-up or without going anywhere. I don't know that this is a fair or accurate representation of nova's post history. It isn't difficult to find stances that nova has taken on various people. Indeed I think nova has covered a wide spectrum of the player roster in his various discussions.

Do all of nova's reads need to be tied back to some specific question he asked? Meh. It's a nitpick more than it's a case. Facilitation of a well-paced Mafia game often requires asking questions, per the Sloonei Bible.

Gemma wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:37 am weak townreads on jjj and mac

Gemma reads have arrived. Can you describe then how you came to these perceptions, or better yet show me the posts? I'm trying to unlock the secrets of the process by which new Syndicate user Gemma generates a stance.

Soneji wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:11 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:02 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:58 pmPossibly, by you.
I don't need "possibly". What are you referring to?

Ultra wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:58 pmDefend someone by attacking their accuser.

Since you're here elaborate on that vote
I think DDL got snagged by a booby trap. No lynches are horrendous, and I thought it looked evident that speedchuck wasn't serious in his recommendation.
As a former advocate for no lynch, I've caught a good amount of scum by looking at how people respond to it. To me, it wasn't immediately obvious as a joke but for DDL whose likely played with Speedchuck a good amount it probably should be.

Soneji gently nudges forward a case against DDL by suggesting here that he ought to have known speedchuck was joking about a no lynch.

Soneji wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:11 pmYou barely post any memorable content and now you're here making bullet points against the easiest target?

[VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

Then in the next breath he jams a vote on Dragomir for making a case against the "easiest target" (DDL).

This allows Soneji to rest on both sides of the DDL fence implicitly. In neither instance did he specifically say "DDL is good" or "DDL is bad", but they can be extracted from the words by inference.

I'm not impressed by Soneji's appearance. Stand by.

[VOTE: Ultra] aubergine

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:33 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:30 pm I'll make a final call soon.
Where are you at on Ultra? I'm expecting more fire striking back especially after that "possibly you" about poo flinging D0.

I'd lynch him. His read on me never progressed from its origin as though none of my other posts are relevant.

I'll make a final call soon.

I'm in final exams all day and will likely not be available at the deadline.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:18 am Okay how do I do that on mobile since I only play on my phone and that doesnt exist here

All ISO links are in this post

Luxurious wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:12 am
Gemma wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:33 am i hope jjj doesn't post more than 8 times before eod because i won't have a chance to reclaim my status as topposter if he does and that would be very sad
How do you see number of posts???

How am i even supposed to iso outside of that search box at the top where i input things randomly and hope to get the results Im looking for

The host also included ISO links next to each players name in the intro posts.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:14 am Okay Trump

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:12 amDo you think the post is suspicious or not?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:11 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:09 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:05 am What kind of BS doublespeak is this? I never said it "must" be. I pointed out that what Owner did has clear and obvious scum motivation and should not be given any kind of civ clearance. It's one thing for Epi to do it, but for you to see that post and agree with it rather than seeing what I see is major .
Yeah I don't care about your flailing hands emoji. Just about any post in the universe "can" have a scum motivation. Who gives a shit? The point of this game is to make judgments.
So it's okay for Epi and you to point at an asinine post and give in townie points but when I point out the scum motivation in the very same post "who gives a shit".

It almost feels like you are intentionally refusing to see my point for some reason Jimbob.

You're not giving me a judgment. You're telling me about what a post "can" be. I don't care about that. Any post can be anything. Do you think the post is suspicious or not?

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