The Syndicate

This game has been updated in the Hall of Fame.

Matahari wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:34 pm Dunya, I had a lot of fun playing this, please dont think I was complaining about the game. I was complaining about myself, not knowing about how the game has changed. I was having to learn as I went along, which was also fun for me, but I wasn’t as helpful to the town as I should have been.
I think you were a wonderful host, and I imagine that not interfering in the game was actually hard for you. I would have been on pins and needles all the time, wanting to say something. This was really a nice game for me to get my feet wet again, and I’m so glad I got to play. I’m using Mafiascum’s Wiki pages to try and learn more of the terminology so that I’ll be able to play better in future games. Thanks again!

I thought you did well. You were placed in a difficult spot beyond just your familiarity with the Mafia culture given that you were being named as a suspect by a number of people quite early in the game. You weathered that with great poise and didn't let it get in the way of your efforts to contribute to the hunt. That's something that can be a real struggle for many folks.

dunya did a great job!

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:56 pm Why? We had a dead cop that told us to lynch her lol.

Hindsight 20/20 and all that. I think this is where some discussion was sorely needed. nutella didn't indicate that she'd ID'd Elohcin as a mafioso (she maintained Daisy as a candidate). Oh well.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:50 pmit's not easy to win as a civilian when the game is at lylo and the person who is left isn't even actually a Mafia.

Yep, I don't fault y'all for that confusion (nor do I fault dunya). A 12-player game is very friendly to the presence of an independent by the numbers. You'd just emerged from the 9 vs. 3 Community though, and that begs to bias the mindset. Spacedaisy was rightly dissociated from the mafia team. Unfortunately that says nothing about her as a candidate for being an independent. Shit sandwich.

This last day should have been a no lynch. The absence of conversation will kill any civilian team though, so it hardly matters. This is something that has been damaging in three straight games -- Shockheaded Peter, Community, and now Gossip Girl. The conversation has to keep moving continuously.

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:12 pm For curiosity's sake, when's the last time town even won here?

2018 Game of Champions and the Daily Fantasy heist are the two I recall.

It hasn't always been so rare. This is truly a barren streak.

Number of posts in game when I died on Night 2: approximately 720

Number of posts in game after I died: 124

I will never win again.

indiglo is my top suspect.

reywaS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:53 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:42 pm
reywaS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:34 pm what an ass lol
This isn't at all the sort of environment I want in my game. This toxic attitude is gross and I'm really disappointed.
that's toxic? But someone passive aggressively yelling to the crowd that he wishes i wasn't even playing in the game is not toxic? Okay.

I was referring to replacing myself.

Alas, this is a game that will not feature replacements.

Good luck, folks.

reywaS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:25 pm i think your big problem with me is that you take everything i say in the thread to totally line up with my thoughts. Somehow you haven't realized my jokey nature. Does it really make sense for a person to really be sure about someone's alignment when nothing has obviously occurred to warrant such suspicion? If I say insertnamehere is bad without giving even a half ass reason, it probably means there isn't a reason and im talking shit. *shrugs*

Your big problem with me is that you hate being relegated to the POE pool in every game, but you leave me no choice. If I have no reason to call you a civilian then I am not going to call you a civilian. I don't care about jokes. Joke all you like. I joke plenty too. It doesn't tell me anything about your alignment though, and in my hunting realm that is equivalent to making you a suspect.

I don't do "null" reads, and your play style lends itself to being read as null. Null is bad for JJJ.

Please kill me.

Why do I even try?

reywaS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:35 am i just think it's funny, my man, because you were seemingly fine with me posting in a game with nothing but Kanye West lyrics, gifs, quotes and memes...what ive done so far though...that is just out of line.

Yes, your Kanye game looked more authentic than this one. You still haven’t told me why you called me bad pre-Owner lynch.

reywaS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:38 am i come from a camp of mafia where we don't take the game serious at all until day 2. You all seem to be go getters now. I won't adjust. Think i'm scum because of it all you want. You are wrong....again. lol

I’m familiar with that camp. It exists on many sites and has many members.

And it’s why civilians usually lose.

reywaS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:36 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:33 am
reywaS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:25 am that is correct. I have not. Be a dear and catch me up while you clean up around here and i have my tea.
That’s your job. If you want to continue wasting my time with made up accusations that don’t amount to any actual hunt, I will ensure you don’t survive Day 3.

I can more easily name everyone else in this game a civilian. For you I have nothing.
no need to be a dick. You're accusing me of not trying to win. You really gonna go that route? Why the hell would I play if I didn't want to win? Just because I dont go about it the same way you do doesn't mean I dont try.

Jesus pull your head out of your ass, scum scummington

I said nothing about “trying to win”. I said you look less like a civilian than any other player. You have done things, and they don’t look authentic to me.

You suspected me for reasons I really do not know prior to the lynch, and now you’re interpreting the lynch however you must to sustain that read on me. This notion that I tried to peel the lynch away from Owner is goofy as hell when the poll was *tied*. Daisy was right there ready to be offed. What do you do with that?

reywaS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:25 am that is correct. I have not. Be a dear and catch me up while you clean up around here and i have my tea.

That’s your job. If you want to continue wasting my time with made up accusations that don’t amount to any actual hunt, I will ensure you don’t survive Day 3.

I can more easily name everyone else in this game a civilian. For you I have nothing.

reywaS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:38 am JJJ, i guess Owner flipping bad makes it less likely that im actually bad in your logic? I assume this not because i am a genius but because you seemingly gave up on chewing your rey bone as soon as the lynch was posted.

Everyone, talk to me about triple J. NOW!

Have you read any posts in this night phase? I don’t think you have.

reywaS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:42 am what have you done?

I never claimed to have accomplished anything. I just think it's weird that Triple J tried to derail the lynch on Owner at the last minute. If anyone had bitten on his terrible logic the game would have lost a civvie instead. I am still confused how me drive by voting for him mad me so mafia to super civvie Triple J. It's almost as if he had never been in a game with me or something.

Looks like I'm gonna have a 3 day weekend this week, so i shouldn't have any problems being all up in here doing nothing and annoying everyone. Cheers!

I suspected Daisy too andcould have murdered her. It was a three-way tie.

You suspect me for no reason and your interactions with Ownershow me nothing.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:05 am And the part about the vote not being set in stone. Yeah.

Rey is a wild card. Eloh looks town to me but I have a hard time getting her right.

Do you think any of Owner's voters looks questionable?

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:10 pm Indi bad mata bad mac indie

Please tell me about reywaS and Elohcin.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:56 amDunno what posts you were reading man. I expressed hesitance every step of the way. I just didn't have a better place to put my vote (so I thought).

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:20 pm hmmm I'm not satisfied with daisy's last post. her logic for why a baddie wouldn't vote as she did seems a little too thought through, if she was just a clueless townie throwing a vote somewhere she could just say that she was a clueless townie throwing a vote somewhere and not have this elaborate rationale cooked up.

[VOTE: daisy] aubergine

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:09 pm Dude you are overreacting chill. My vote is not set in stone but it is getting closer as this response doesn't sound like civ Daisy imo.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:26 pm
Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:00 pm Really feel like Daisy's latest content is from a townie heart, and I don't know why nutella and owner still want her lynched.
As I said I'm not set on it. I'm trying not to be "deep in confirmation bias" as she says and I can see it your way too. I could still vote for mata, or someone else if there is a convincing reason.

I see one post here (orange) that isn't distinctly anti-Daisy, and even calling that one "hesitance" is a stretch.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:00 am Elohcin - Feel good
indiglo - Feels bad
Matahari - Feels good
nutella - Feels bad
reywaS - Feels bad

Cool beans. Whaddya like about Elohcin and Matahari?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:00 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:59 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:58 pm I should be hella dark green
Shut your ass up about that shit and help me narrow the orange pile.
Fuck you dad.

Tell me about nutella at least, SackDougall.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:58 pm I should be hella dark green

Shut your ass up about that shit and help me narrow the orange pile.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:29 pmThis is unhelpful. Parroting Jay and just adding your voice saying "Sorry but you look so bad neenerneener" with no elaboration is not productive. Sure my interactions don't look great. But they're natural. They would look a lot better if I was owner's teammate and you know it.

I don't know that. You're a great Mafia player and received my vote for best civilian, but I'm not going to cut you any slack because you have a sloppy record. I think you look fine in terms of tone, but when the data disagrees I will acknowledge it.

Indeed, I think your Day 2 was problematic beyond just Owner. I don't understand your handling of Spacedaisy. You showed no interest at all in budging from your intention to lynch her regardless of anything she said to you. You're nutella. Budging is your calling card. I found Daisy suspicious as well, but not with the degree of confidence or assertiveness you displayed in your rigidity.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:22 pmNaw this is dumb.

No it isn't.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:22 pmI didn't like Owner's D1 vote because her reasoning on Luna was weak and I thought, yes, like you said, she could have been saving Mongoose. Of course Mongoose's flip discounted that part of my suspicion of Owner, and then her posts overnight felt way more genuine to me so I raised her position on my list. I was wrong in the end but that's just how my thoughts on her developed, I guess she put on a convincing enough show for me but not enough for the people who voted for her and luckily you guys were right.

The highlighted bit is why it's a problem for me. Tacking her to Mongoose exonerates her of that connection when Mongoose is lynched. You had an out built into the read.

Given those interactive analyses:

Lunalee
Spacedaisy

MacDougall

Elohcin
indiglo
Matahari
nutella
reywaS

I'll narrow that orange POE further once some other people speak up. Let's go.

Interactions of Owner and Spacedaisy

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This is rather idle questioning.

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Daisy gets a default mention as Owner questions the Mongoose voters.

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This is the post that led me to lynch Owner at the last moment. When I voiced a "yikes" about Daisy's D1 vote explanation, Owner hopped on my shoulders and said "yes, I'll have a Daisy vote please". She left it there through EOD. To me this reeks of opportunism and speaks to Daisy's innocence. Owner expanded on that later when I informed her that Daisy was the last Mongoose voter. Owner turned that into a greater reason for suspicion. It all looks bunk. Owner gave me a break for being clueless but didn't afford the same luxury to Daisy. Owner wanted Daisy lynched.

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Owner was not moved by Daisy's frustration for reasons that really don't even seem relevant to alignment.

Daisy provided substantive argumentation to assuage the concerns Owner had presented. I think it looks mostly like someone trying to convince someone else of something that isn't being discussed outside the thread.

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Oops. This is to Daisy's credit though. She stuck to her guns with her rey vote, which could have left the tally at a 2-2-2 tie with her in it. She couldn't have known I would make my switch. This is quite like Luna's move at EOD1.

~~~

Conclusion

I think Spacedaisy looks considerably better emerging from the lynch.

Interactions of Owner and reywaS

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Null read. Meh. That's it for owner on rey.

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Idle chatter. Meh.

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This was extracted from rey's larger reads post. I don't know why Owner warranted her own tier, and the title of that tier does not inspire.

~~~

Conclusion

There's nothing here that speaks to rey's credit. He's a suspect.

Interactions of Owner and nutella

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Owner prods me to explain my suspicion of nutella in the form of a joke. Okay.

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Owner neither agrees nor disagrees with my accusation against nutella, and adds a disclaimer anyway.

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Turn it around!

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Owner tacked nutella and Mac together for their mutual defenses of Luna on D1. Again this will mean more to me in the future.

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Softball question. Meh.

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Generic prod from nutella about Mac's mafia prediction which included Owner. Okay.

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nutella wasn't impressed with Owner's vote for Luna. I don't care for this "Mongoose's teammate" shit. What does this have to do with Mongoose? Ermagerd itz a save!!111.

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nutella voted for Mongoose while stating a preference for a veritable side salad instead. Owner was in the salad. Not great.

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Again with this. No.

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Mutually neutral chatter about the Luna vote switch. Meh.

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Interaction, no stances taken, whatever.

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Dunno why.

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It'd be bold of nutella to ask me to remove her teammate from my POE. She's bold though so I don't care.

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I kind of hate this. Owner's vote for Daisy was not fine. It was opportunism much like her D1 vote for Luna had been, and it was the sole reason I voted for Owner over Daisy to break the tie at the last minute.

~~~

Conclusion

nutella looks worse and has much to answer for.

Interactions of Owner and Matahari

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Owner offered some soft criticism of Matahari on D2. I'm not thrilled by the "maybe" disclaimers.

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Owner again voices suspicion of Matahari and again tacks on a disclaimer of sorts.

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Owner struggled to explain her suspicions of nutella and Matahari here, which isn't surprising given that the read was fake. That doesn't indicate much to me about Mata's alignment.

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Okay.

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I don't know what this means.

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Mata voted for Owner on D1 and left it there. It was a standalone vote, so meh. Her explanation sounds fair enough at least. Eek @ another disclaimer.

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Mata voiced suspicion of Daisy, indiglo, and Owner on D2 and explained it above in the highlighted area. That explanation is rather vague, and I wish it didn't arc broadly over all three of them as some collective "they". I could assert that the notion of "evasive voting" could also apply to Mata herself, given that her Day 1 vote ended up the only one on Owner.

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The "trying" wording here made me chuckle; it is that "so yikes it might not really be yikes" sort of thing. A mafia teammate would definitely try to find a reason to trust Owner.

I don't necessarily take anything from this.

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It's nice that Mata gave this GTH exercise a shot at my suggestion. She called Owner bad. Okay.

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Mata questioned Mac about his Owner vote and then mused over the possibility of moving her own vote to kill the tie. As it stands she remained on indiglo, again as a solo vote.

~~~

Conclusion

This is very messy. It's so messy that I am engaging in some considerable WIFOM. She remains a suspect in any event.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:40 pm C'mon I'm obvtown.

No.

indiglo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:37 pmI have no connection to Owner

It's hard to have a connection with a player that you never mention once during her lifespan.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:28 pm Thanks dunya for the game. Go Mafia Go!! I will have thoughts to say in the post game.

Thanks as always for playing with us Owner!

Interactions of Owner and MacDougall

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Owner took great interest in Mac calling himself "sexy". She may have been fishing for his role here, or at least greater evidence that he is a stronger role worth killing. He then claimed bodyguard, and she gave him a soft admonishment. I award a little civilian credit for her interest at least.

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I'll use this post to represent a number of them in which Owner gave Mac a little shit for his defenses of Luna and tied him to nutella. This may be more interesting later should either of the two flip.

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Owner doesn't know Mac's gender identity. Etc. Some people might say this is a moment that clears them of BTSC, but I'm just going to shrug. Nah.

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Owner gets the mafia sticker from Mac on D0. More

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Mac protests Owner's reasoning here but doesn't voice suspicion on that account or vote. So whatever.

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The retrospective nature of this comment deflates any of its value. He did follow through though.

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Mac was the second vote on the Owner wagon, and he said he was following me. I don't think this is a sterling, amazing, incredible vote. It did benefit the civilians in the immediate present. Cool.

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Not sure what gave Mac this impression. If she was fishing for his role it might be to set up a role cop later I suppose.

~~~

Conclusion

This doesn't really do anything to harm Mac's standing, and it does a few things to improve it.

Interactions of Owner and Lunalee

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This dramatic vote was cause for my temporary Day 1 vote on Owner. It looks quite like a mafioso trying to capitalize on the suspicion a civilian was fielding in a chaotic first day. She attributed it to questionable self-preservation which is of course silly. Luna looks great here. Owner admitted she didn't have all the information later.

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Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:47 am I wish more people were around right now.

I have like now to talk - then to sleep - then to work and then maybe to end of day.

I guess I want to look at nutella and Lunalee or maybe the Mongoose vote. Multiple people were quick to defend Luna. She did eventually move her vote, but was everyone else reading her off meta or what?

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:17 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:01 am
Does anyone involved in those incidents look particularly bad or good to you now?
Are you talking about the Mongoose vote or nutella quickly coming to Luna's aid?

With the Mongoose vote, I'm generally more suspicious of the later votes. Unless the earlier voters are strong players, who tend to push people a lot as scum, but with this crowd, I'm flying without meta.

Also, are the votes actually in order has this site's polling mixed it up?

I have the votes at Mac then Jay then indigo then daisy was that the correct order or did it get mixed up?

--

Nutella coming to Luna's aid; she seemed really certain about Luna's alignment. Does Nutella generally read Luna well? Or would she defend a partner like that...hmm that might be a stretch or would be unwise. It could be a pocket for credit maybe.

Then the world could be Nutella and Matahari? As Matahari indirectly stayed away from the main wagons and voted for me.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:39 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:27 am
Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:17 amAre you talking about the Mongoose vote or nutella quickly coming to Luna's aid?
Both of those, and any other incidents that may inform you about other players. I am unclear on what you think of most players.
Players
1. Spacedaisy - scummy
3. JaggedJimmyJay - slight town (though would like to read a scum game of yours to compare this game to) PS: Owner doesn't want to be be pocketed
4. Elohcin - slight town
5. indigo - null
6. reywaS - null
7. nutella - mainly just a bit irked at how quick she was to defend Luna as if she was absolutely certain of her alignment
8. Lunalee - could be town because of nutella/mac or could be teamed
9. Owner of a Lonely Heart - me
10. Matahari - null or could be with nutella/Luna
12. MacDougall could be with nutella/Luna

Owner gave nutella and Mac crap for their defenses of Luna. To me this looks like Owner trying to set those two up for accusations of TMI, which would itself be TMI from Owner that Luna is good to go.

Luna grades Owner as a sad smiley on D1.

Luna is more substantively unimpressed with Owner on D2, citing her Daisy vote as a problem.

Spoiler: show

Luna voted Owner about two hours prior to EOD and stayed put. At this moment I was on the wagon and Mac had joined me, so this put Owner at 3 votes.

~~~

Conclusion

This is a civilian. Do not lynch.

Interactions of Owner and indiglo

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Idle chatter about Mac. Whatever.

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indiglo gets a happenstance mention when Owner gives some slow-pitch shade to the Mongoose voters. Again

Null read on D2. Meh.

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Owner awarded some credit to Mac and indiglo for being earlier on the Mongoose wagon than Daisy and I. It's took a bit of a mental workout to produce this credit.

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Owner doesn't remember much about indiglo either. Okay.

Indiglo never mentioned or talked with Owner.

~~~

Conclusion

It's a net negative, even if not loudly so. There is no vote to assess, for reasons stated in the present linki.

Interactions of Owner and Elohcin

Owner calls Eloh a slight town read on D2.

This reads list was loaded with nulls, so any stance is nice. Owner used the "slight" modifier for both Eloh and I. I don't take much from this.

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Okay. Nothing to see here.

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This was 49 minutes prior to EOD2. Elohcin's vote was on Mac. Owner had spent some time around this period talking with/about Mac regarding his "sexy" character and role claim. It may say more about Mac than Eloh if anything.

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Neither of them seem to have a clue about one another.

~~~

Conclusion

There's not much here to work with that speaks to me. I have no reason to give Elohcin civilian credit on this basis.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:24 pm Heck yeah! Sometimes gut feelings are real.

What gut feelings do you have emerging from this flip?

I have a suspicion dunya stuck an independent in this game, so it might have started at 9 vs. 2 and 1 (or 8:2:1:1) rather than 9 vs. 3. Who knows, but be mindful of the numbers and their implications moving forward. There's at least one teammate so I'll get cookin'.

Welp I better go ahead and get this one solved before another set of rotten criminals decides to kill me.

How do I do it? What is my secret?

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

I want to murder rey.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:56 pm Was I blow up and get super mad? I didn’t feel that mad...

I just felt annoyed when I did what people asked and instead other people just went oh you doing that looks bad. I hate that. I also hate discussions of WIFOM. Because any defense you give someone can say, that’s WIFOM, you bad. I have never in my life places a vote thinking, if I place this vote, I can make this argument. When I’m bad I vote for the person I believe would look most suspicious to me if I was good. I’m not setting up some argument down the road.

One needn't have some contrived "plan". It's just about the avoidance of suspicion. Many people, myself included, find off-wagon piss-off votes to be suspicious (which is why I avoid doing that when I am a mafioso -- it's not hard for me to believe you'd also avoid it).

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