The Syndicate

Yeah, I can't see a path to victory. I probably would've had a better path to victory if the other players looked worse, but my slot looked by far the worst and I couldn't subvert that no matter how hard I tried. It would've been a different story had I been playing from the start, but with me replacing into a slot that's already buried knee-deep in PoE, dragging it out would require me to somehow get villagerier people to go over. That wasn't realistic in a playerlist like this where you can recognize villageriness.

And speaking of recognizing villageriness, yes I had TMI, but I genuinely think Transcend and illario were super villagery the entire time they were alive. Not sure why they were ever pushed on, and in Transcend's case, yeeted. But since I lack full context, I won't judge.

GG!

When I replaced in, I frankly had no idea what the situation was, and it proved quite dire. With W/W wagons, one of the slots reportedly hurting the players in the game, and the villagers asking me to quickhammer my partner, I knew this was probably not winnable.

Still, I decided to try, and the best strategy I came up with was for us to W/W theater it up with Brad... except he got quickyeeted before that could really take off. We always intended to bus each other there, it just did not really work when we had no time to interact.

Afterward, I tried to pick up the pieces and push some agenda. I determined that my winning world was probably Nanook/TSP after reading my partner's ISO, but truth being told, scumcasing anyone was a struggle. I read LC's ISO and I saw every player in the game being spewed town to some degree... excluding my slot. I also thought my previous slot holder was wolfy on an initial skim of his ISO. I was like "ah. So this is how it ends." If the players here were decent at least, they would notice the indisputable fact I am the only slot alive that isn't spewed town by LC, at least not to the extent that others are. And the player list was certainly far above decent.

I still tried, though, and if nothing else, I'm glad the game at least ended on a positive note - with a final 5 of classic wolfhunting leading to the correct conclusion, where the wolf didn't roll over, but didn't toy with the villagers' feelings (or whatever exactly happened before my subin).

Nanook, my case on you was very much TMI, because I was grasping and I knew it! I knew you were quite villagery and realistically should have been spewed V, I just had to pretend that you were not because otherwise I'd be boxing myself in. Illario was the designated pocket and frankly I didn't want to push him after what he said about my previous slot holder (specifically about the slot being mafia vs town and how it related to its behavior in the game). It would've just felt wrong. My initial push target was Ender, and I received backlash for it as soon as I suggested it, and then I realized he was hard spewed town, so I has to push someone else. Nanook it was. Ender was going to be the nightkill. And while I could have pushed TSP, he seemed like an easier misyeet to push through in f3, or an easier wrong vote on a villager from his side, than any other player left alive.

Wp to the village for finding the wolves, and thanks @Lime Coke for initiating our "two fight, one survives" plan. If only you were not quickhammered. Then again, I feel like we were in the proverbial box regardless. Yeah, you did spew every player alive (except my slot) town, you should probably work on that, but I have no hard feelings. It's just a game and I don't require everyone (or anyone) to have perfect play. Hey, at least your supposedly 2/10 wolfgame survived two days! That's an improvement, judging by how you've described it.

Again, GG to everyone, and I don't regret subbing in, even though it was a losing position. And sorry @ilario that I wasn't town this time, but it do be like that sometimes

Realistically, Nanook's defense against my case is pretty bad, because calling it TMI-ish and "overlooks a few things" is shorthand for "I don't know how to defend myself against it, so I just won't." Now, I'm notoriously bad at defending myself as either alignment, so I could sympathize with that, except his go-to response is to call me a wolf instead, which is boring and predictable. I'd expect him to try harder to find the last wolf here as V, perhaps try to work with me rather than against me, but instead he's just continuing his incorrect push from the first three days without even attempting to re-evaluate it. Why? Because at this point, he's locked into it. He knows he can't misyeet illario or Ender, I won't let him, and if TSP's town, then he's a good f3 misyeet. The highest-value yeet for wolf!Nanook that's also reasonably easy for him to get is exactly me, so his response to my case being essentially "this is TMI, Vulgard is just a wolf" is quite telling of his motivations.

Don't forget this if I'm yeeted and you go to final 3.

I'm not sure how you can look at the push on Nanook day 3 and think it's genuine and that it spews Nanook town. Neither player involved cares, and it's very obvious when you pay close attention. The lack of care on both sides tells me that both players know this push for what it really is - a fake push for optics that's not actually intended to go anywhere. Nanook using it to try and clear himself later in a seemingly innocent post contradicts his treatment of it in the moment. It's like he knew the push was meant to clear him, but forgot to take it seriously in the moment because of TMI.

If I'm wrong about Nanook then TSP's the other option because among all the players alive, he's been the least involved in actually solving the game, and at this point solving the game is super important. His worldviews today have been rather confusing and pro-wolf, and while there are villagery moments in his ISO, they don't compare to Ender / illario, what they have posted and how LC spews them. LC doesn't spew TSP at all; in fact, LC's treatment of TSP is "quietly put in PoE and push other players," which is textbook w/w stuff. The reason I'm pushing Nanook over TSP is that I think he's playing much more like a wolf would, that is, actually pushing an agenda of some kind and not trying to avoid getting voted by doing few things of substance. But if I'm wrong on Nanook, the next player I would look at is TSP.

Obviously re-evaluate in f3, yadda yadda, but that's where I stand right now and I feel quite good about it.

I mean, I think LC spewed my slot town in his lackluster interactions with WIml where he tries to appease to his slot, but sure.

Currently thinking Illario/Ender are just villagers and that TSP's villagerier than Nanook (though only by a bit), leaving me at Nanook -> TSP as yeet priority.

If I'm wrong about Nanook, or if you don't listen to me and yeet someone else and they flip V, I'll evaluate again in f3. But I really think Nanook ends the game, and I think his and LC's mutual treatment of one another on day 3 is a dead giveaway of them being partnered.

[VOTE: NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME] aubergine

Don't hammer. Putting this here for now because I won't be around for a bit.

Reading TSP's ISO and I'm honestly not seeing much to talk about. Nothing overtly wolfy, but also nothing overtly villagery.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:54 am mac can be town again for threatening to chop me

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:54 am when he's a wolf he just does it

The first villagery part that I found. This is a distinctly villagery POV. It's not a 100% clear but it's a pretty good look.

His entire day 2 has no solving in it. No scumreads, no pushing people, not even defending villagereads. Just making naked reads.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:46 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:59 am I am rather comfortable townreading Nanook now. He's put himself into a position where he is very likely to not last to endgame just simply because he made reads he believes in ie. Ilario wolf, Mac town. He is not making an effort to win this game for his wolf team unless his entire plan is to just die to spew Ilario town.

I’ve been agreeing but I’ve also considered that like holding onto the Ilario scumread is like the easiest fake scumread possible here and he hasn’t really done any reeval on it tbh

THANK YOU.
Another villagery post, I am totally not biased by myself agreeing with it wholeheartedly. ...Only two. In an ISO of a few hundred. But it's there, I suppose.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:16 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:01 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:53 am I haven’t ever hung around til endgame in a game with w!Ender but like eh I don’t think he’s pretty much ever a wolf here tbh

Articulate what made you say this.

the enthusiasm he has around the LC case feels really hard to fake for most players. you said you thought it was possible, that seems like wishful thinking. maybe he could fake the case itself, but i don't think he treats it the same way if he's a wolf.

Solid thought, actually.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:08 pm anyways here's where we're at:

alexa is hard townshielding ilario
wiml is hard townshielding alexa
ender is hard anti-townshielding LC
nanook is sheeping mac
tsp is probably also sheeping mac when it comes down to it
alexa thinks wiml is town
ender probably has to be a wolf?
but ender probably isn't a wolf with wiml according to the fact that I'm sheeping mac and he said so for reasons I don't remember
also i don't think ender is a wolf
so then it's probably wiml/LC
but alexa doesn't think it's that
am i misreading nanook?
eh
no

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:09 pm team is lc/wiml they don't kill alexa because alexa is basically a third wolf and alexa's not surprised by this because... she knows it to be true?

I actually have no idea what the process is here but it feels kinda villagery.
The rest of his posts are... inoffensive. He hadn't really been solving until then, I don't think, but he had a few villagery moments like this one.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:33 pm everyone: huh weird kill
alexa: no how dare you it made perfect sense when we went over it in scum chat

Villagery in hindsight.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:17 am fwiw if you're town you should vote for LC because nanook /will/ (probably) hammer and if you're town that's like ~always~ a hit
if you're a wolf you should do it too but idk

Very good look, actually. He could be bussing here, but he's essentially telling me to get credit for it, which would be a strange thing to do for wolf!him. He would want that credit himself instead of giving it to a townie who replaced into a misyeetable slot.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 12:28 pm Nah I’m currently at ilario/Ender

Literally my two clears.

Overall, I... didn't really find anything there. Some villagery posts I think wolves wouldn't/would find it difficult to fake, but overall, not that much solving. Some cases of posting that looks independent-thought-processy enough to come from a villager and not wolf, but holistically, it's not very inspiring.

However, when it comes to the ISO's overall progression, it's not outright wolfy like Nanook's. I currently think TSP isn't super villagery, but at least he had villagery moments. Nanook didn't really have villagery moments, he just had cockiness and confidence that I townread. The content of his posts wasn't super villagery overall, while I did find some posts in TSP's ISO that struck me as distinctly villagery.

Currently leaning toward Nanook over TSP, though TSP's worldview today being exactly my two clears is... eh. If he's a wolf he knows he's turning me against himself by wolfreading my two clears, so I'm actually inclined to say he doesn't do this as mafia, but I can't say it's a strong or even good reason.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:10 pm Theres a chance I have the alexa ilario thing backwards and she's the mafia but I don't really think that's worth exploring atm

Re: reading illario off interactions with alexa, yikes. Lining up for a double misyeet here potentially.
Caveat being that if Nanook's the last wolf alive after yesterday, I doubt he kills alexa in that case.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:18 pm If we collectively sheep strong townreads on players who have experience with each other there's only one mafia and its tsp

So

Yeah

Thats a bit of an issue

Why can't TSP be mafia? I know the point is "there's only one mafia and that's the problem," but it also looks like he dismisses the whole thing because it's specifically TSP.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:28 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:26 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:25 pm Like, ok, let's look at this collectively

Mac has a ton of experience with me and we found each other before he died, normally thats a sheepable read

Alexa and ilario have a bunch of experience with each other and vouch for each other, wiml also has experience I believe and vouches for both

I have experience with ender and vouch for him

I don't know if this applies to lime or not but I think he's been largely townread afaik so I'm counting it

So that leaves wiml and tsp. Iirc Alexa vouched for wiml prior to today, or am I remembering wrong?


So, yeah, you guys see the problem here yes?

i'm not vouching for wiml anymore. the only person i'm shielding is illario and even then i'd re-val

My point is that unless the team is exactly wiml/tsp (and arguably even if it is) there's been a serious misclear along the way

Yeah, sure?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:30 pm Also the fact that alexa and ilario are both still alive atp pretty strongly suggests one of them is mafia

Sure. This is why I'm saying that alexa dying last night is a good look for Nanook.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:54 am Anyway do we need to drag this day out? It's fairly clear wiml is almost certainly dying, we have over 5000 posts to make reads on, and we can build clear worlds around wiml's flip either way imo

So yeah I say we hammer and go from there

Megayikes. I don't think I need to explain why this one's bad. If I didn't push on LC upon replacing in, the game would be in LyLo right now.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:12 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:42 pm @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME what are your most confident townreads right now?

Not sure they're largely conditional rn

Probably you

Interesting how the confidence Nanook has on his townreads drops as the game progresses, which is consistent with the scum wincon being to misyeet as many villagers as possible. He said at SoD3 that he wanted to kill people he wasn't shielding, but now he is only shielding alexa, and beforehand he said that alexa could be mafia if illario is not. This is a very opportunistic progression that lends itself well to closing out the game by getting a couple more misyeets.

I am also nothing that Nanook barely reacted to Lime's case on him, which is consistent with my assertion that the case was merely for optics. In fact, this actually means that neither one ever cared, and that's strongly W/W indicative.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:03 pm I tried to kill lime instead of mac at eod2 so I think we can all agree im lock clear now

D4.
Absolutely not, there was no strong motion from Nanook to kill Lime at the time. I've just read his ISO, there isn't anything of the sort.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:07 pm Vulgard probably town too

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:08 pm I guess the bar is higher atp but it sure seems like its between vulgard and ilario to me and I'm ok with trusting alexas read for now

Lol.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:57 pm Hammering what was at that point close to a foregone conclusion doesn't clear tsp lol

Notice how he refuses to clear anyone.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:36 am Imagine trying to kill mafia at eod, that same mafia trying to hard push you the next day...and then you're the top suspect the next day cause everyone decided to revert to the shitty poe again

Salty wolf?
This ISO is getting worse by the minute. He did not try to kill Lime at any point unless I'm blind. There were a couple of moments when he kinda pushed Lime but he then walked it back entirely. Day 3 he wanted to push my slot over Lime fairly consistently and only voted Lime because it was a foregone conclusion.

He now uses the "Lime pushed me so I am clear" argument despite not even reacting to the case when it was made and not pushing Lime for it until his death was inevitable. Yeah, I am not buying it. This looks like he pulled that argument solely because that was the plan in wolfchat, not based on what actually happened in the thread, that being a lack of care about the case from both sides strongly pointing toward the case being fake.

The fewer players are alive, the more opportunistic Nanook seems. While at the start of the game it looked like he was super pro-town and was pointing out super correct townreads, the further the game progressed, the more villagers he pushed and the fewer villagers he shielded. This reads to me like a solid wolf day 1 that deteriorated as the game progressed, out of necessity.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:54 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:52 am Ilario calling out the "slip" is kinda good look.

I don't think this is true actually

Scun often are more prone to seeing something their partner did as a slip cause they know it in fact was a slip

I don't think its meaningful really, especially since afaik it was dropped when nobody agreed and helped push it

Continually refuses to clear obvious villager illario.
At this point I refuse to believe the read was made in good faith. Similar stuff re: his read on my slot. He never relented on either read for four days. Not a single moment of doubt, hesitation, progression change, anything. This isn't how a villager treats their reads. If he really had this insane confidence, then neither slot would be alive right now, because he would beg the village to kill them. That didn't happen. He kinda just called us mafia repeatedly, but that is as far as it went.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:38 am

Vulgard wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:17 am I also really hate the fact Nanook had the me/illario world during this SoD, when I think we actually look great from LC's ISO and that illario's independently super villagery. TSP supporting it isn't any better. I can't give them any excuses for it, either, because as people who've read the whole game they should know this.

Bold of you to assume I've read the whole game


But yes you'll note that I realized ilario was/is probably town and swapped tsp into my poe instead, unprompted

Oh, finally.
Why won't he read TSP? If he's a villager, isn't resolving TSP kinda important, especially now? Nanook has barely talked about TSP for the entire game, awkwardly slotting him into the PoE every now and then, and that was that. Now we're in f5 and he... still does not talk about TSP. If Nanook's mafia, TSP's just town, but if I assume Nanook's town, then resolving TSP seems... very important? And he's not doing it.

Overall, I think this ISO falls off a cliff roughly around late day 2 / day 3, and it's consistent with a wolf who needs to progressively expand their options because it becomes increasingly more likely they'll be solo wolfing. He presents a POV of "villager whose reads haven't been listened to," but he himself lowers the confidence of those reads, specifically the townreads, opening up more options at a convenient time. I think this is wolfy thread maneuvering rather than a villager actually solving the game.

I think the most telling part is the LC case on him and their mutual treatment of it (LC/Nanook). Neither actually cares about the case, as I've already talked about, yet Nanook tries to use it to clear himself later in the game. The case was not clearing whatsoever, so him using it tells me it was pre-planned in wolfchat and the plan was for it to clear one of them. He pulled the "clear" part from wolfchat because that is what was supposed to happen, but it did not actually happen.

I currently think it's Nanook, but I'll keep reading.

Nanook's stances being pro-town actually concerns me, because you're right. He's fairly consistently been taking pro-town stances from what I've seen so far, but that's suspicious in and of itself, because I can't see how a villager could always take pro-town stances. They don't have TMI, they will be wrong, and they will help the wolves at some point, won't they?

I pointed out how he pushed villagers, that's really the only thing he did this game that wasn't pro-town and he didn't even try super hard to strongarm people into it during the earlygame. His townlist has been super pure all game.

Nanook spends d2 and a large part of d1 hardpushing my slot. And continues to push illario's slot day 2 despite me being very confident it's a town slot.
Calls lime and TSP PoE on day 2, but "less interested in killing."
Realistically that means he has at least three townies lined up to yeet before he hits the wolf in LC.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:13 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:03 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:01 pm I can kinda see the progression Nanook has and it's pretty reasonable. Like he snap scumread Ilario for what appears to be outing a pretty bad read on Alexa who he was townreading from the get-go and kinda shielding. Wiml defended ilario and Nanook didn't like that so he's content to see Wiml punished for it.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME if you think Ilario is a wolf what is your plan to actually resolve him given he's read town by practically everyone?

Say I told you so and be smug while people get pissy at me in post

This is a half serious answer

Either we're in a world where I have a better read on ilario than his friends, in which case I'm going to die before he does and he either skates to a win or his friends eventually realize he's mafia in f3 and pretend that they're great for catching him despite me correctly calling him scum in like 2 seconds while they omgused me on his behalf

Or we're in a world where I'm wrong and I've identified the wrong misclear in the towncore/it's two others in my poe


Either way, looking at this pragmatically he's not dying and I'm not going to successfully push him over, so

Hopefully you guys are right and I'm wrong

I actually really like this post. This exudes quintessential town confidence.

Like, on a tonal level, on the "believing your reads" level, Nanook looks pretty good. It's just his specific pushes I take issue with.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:38 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:20 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:19 pm How dumb of a read would it be to say that lime is town cause he's using large font and bold and he didn't do that in the joat game iirc

I'm desperately trying to improve the standard of play right now so very

Instructions unclear, town locking lime

Interesting how he removes the only wolf in his PoE for bad reasons. He could do this while lacking TMI and not knowing what he's doing, but the fact he removed specifically the only wolf is concerning.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:35 am

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:12 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:08 am

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:56 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:55 am For instance Wiml may have passed quantity markers but he has made no reads that I look at as being outside his wolf range.

Nanook has not passed any quantity markers but his reads have been more challenging to make than Wiml's reads have been.

i actually agree with this statement

Half the posts of yours I read you're saying what amounts to "yeah I guess X thing from nanook is a bit townie"

And yet I'm still your top scumread

Wild

It really isn’t that wild considering I’ve had statements like that for every player in every game I’ve ever randed town. Everyone has towny moments, but if those moments are few and far in between, and I have to squint pretty hard to read it as towny, then more often than not it’s just mafia.

I mean I think you're just full of shit obviously and have to keep scumreading me to keep the poe intact, but on the off chance you're not then you should probably get better glasses/reevaluate your process

The illario scumread continues to have genuine-looking confidence and belief behind it, it's just the fact he insists on it despite evidence to the contrary fmpov. Like Nanook talks about Transcend being billboard town, I think illario is billboard town and scumreading him at this point seems like keeping PoE broad enough to win.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:58 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:40 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:38 am

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:37 am Unrelated but wtf was Alison's D1 read on you that game lol.

I don't really remember her read so idk


Which townreads do you think are controversial?

"just want to make sure this doesn't slip through the cracks cus of notification shenanigans, i was wondering whether your read that we are town because of the level of comfort in revealing that nanook pees while he drives was from made or alison?"

And anything that isn't alexa/illario/Esooa tbh.

Speaking of illario if you also wouldn't mind explaining that read I'd appreciate it.

Lmao yeah that was an interesting one

I didn't like ilario's interactions around alexa early, there were a couple posts that showed a combination of awkwardness and self awareness that reads as scummy to me. I think his trans handling was kinda meh, but that's harder to judge. I think he's mostly been pushing pro scum poe, although tbf he's not alone in that regard fmpov.

Its a bit of an ego tunnel atp I guess but I don't really care


Mac had a townie eod1, and I think the work he's done today is largely out of his scumrange. That may be a bit of an exaggeration, and the counterargument is that if he's mafia here he's likely trying his ass off given the playerlist, but yeah, I think given his reads and his play he's probably just town

Ender is a bit of a lazier read tbh, he reads similar to his play in scythe to me, and I have a decent record of correctly tolerating him, so I just locked it in.

The bolded interestingly assumes alexa's town, though given his prior expressed read on the slot, this isn't too nonsensical.
If his main reason to push illario is off an association with a townread, then it's a problem, because it's essentially veiled chainsawing rather than pushing illario for anything independent. And sure, "awkwardness/self-awareness" is independent enough in a vacuum, but he specifically ties this to alexa.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:05 pm Anyways now that we've killed two people in the collective poe that I correctly townread can we start killing the people I want to kill or are we just gonna keep doing the same thing and hoping it works

SoD3.

The problem is that he's been pushing villagers.
D2 he also didn't really do much defending of Mac despite calling him town, so this doesn't feel genuine whatsoever.

Vulgard wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:50 am By the way, if I'm yeeted today, then I won't blame anyone for it. I didn't blame anyone in DragonVale, either; it just kinda happens when you're POE due to prior play, and I'm notoriously bad at clearing myself.

The biggest thing I care about is that I'm very confident illario and Ender are both just spewed from LC and you should not yeet whichever one survives to f3.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:29 am Its also ridiculous that I have 114 posts and its the second lowest total in the game

Yall need to find some chill

What even was this game?

By the way, if I'm yeeted today, then I won't blame anyone for it. I didn't blame anyone in DragonVale, either; it just kinda happens when you're POE due to prior play, and I'm notoriously bad at clearing myself.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:04 pm

Transcend wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:03 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:46 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:26 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:58 pm Can people please shut up about their townreads? If you townread someone, don't say anything. Keep your townreads alive.

Only YOU can protect townreads.

I used to think like you

Then I took an arrow to the knee and became enlightened

that was a copypasta. :P I out townreads all the time.
unfortunately I don’t have any real reads yet and all the snap-opinions I have are hedgy so I’m going to keep them to myself until further notice

why would u keep any thoughts that u have to urself? if u had thoughts that could potentially break us out of rvs, why wouldn't u dish them out?

this post looks slightly performative.

More people should keep thoughts to themselves tbh, then we wouldn't have as many bloated threads

Largely agree on principle, but that's beside the point.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:46 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:15 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:13 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:02 pm Because I respect a lot of the players in here, and people I respect have respect for some of the other players.

Which suggests it's a strong field.

Meh most players are not that hard to read

what reads do you have rn

You and transcend are billboard town

Ender is probably town

Someone else idr who but im sure its in my iso

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:47 pm So I'm 2 short of lock I think

I kinda like this sequence for its cockiness.

Townreads at this point are Transcend, alexa, Ender. 3/3. Doesn't necessarily mean anything, just keeping track for myself.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:05 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:24 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:21 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:19 pm Honestly I think both wolves are probably just in Transcend/blade/Nook/Mac.

This is an insane read

i actually agree with it atm

Wiml wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:22 pm alexa is obviously town.
illario is obviously town.
Esooa and LC are both in their town ranges.
I'm waiting for more responses but I honestly don't think alison would fake a derp clear like that for no reason?
Willing to sheep the TSP meta for now as well.

i mean i don't think alison is town for that reason, she quite literally admitted she'd fake a derp, but i've found her villagery by play thus far

Its a horrible poe lol

Horrible might be overselling it ig but

I'm pretty sure it has at minimum three town and probably four

That's actually pretty true. Now, he could say this because he has TMI on it, but horrible PoEs from town benefit wolves, so minor townpoints for Nanook here.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:39 pm

Transcend wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:34 pm Describe why ilario is scum in like 20 words

The reason that ilario is scum in like twenty words is because they randed mafia this game. That's twenty exactly.

Approach to wolfreads seems incredibly lazy at best.

1. I think the read is wrong.
2. The strength of the conclusion doesn't match the strength of the reasoning, which makes it feel like he's not playing by discovery.

He's certainly very cocky throughout the earlygame, but that's not villagery on its own unless it goes with villagery posts. His posts so far have been alright, but I townread mostly the cockiness and I dislike the approach to scumreads specifically. The three townreads were likely correct, but they also came from nowhere. The towniest thing is that Nanook seems to really believe in his reads, considering how he's treating them with mild arrogance and a decent level of attachment.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:13 pm Shrug

Ok fine

When you guys are done killing me transcend and, idk, probably tsp, and you're looking around trying to figure out who could possibly be mafia, come back to my iso cause my legacy is gonna be good as hell

I feel like by this point he's been on the way to completely boxing himself out by throwing a townread on TSP into the mix if he's mafia.
No, I don't know what to make of this. Not sure why TSP's name is even here.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:23 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm Meh im only at 4 locks if I don't count myself

Trans ender alexa and esooa

So need two more

I'll find them later probably

If ilario mafia tsp is a fifth lock

If im wrong on trans mac becomes lock town

Oh.
...Idk. What I'm reading feels like a villager solving in his own way, but the lack of explanation behind each read, coupled with him being alive despite being super correct (literally everyone he called town flipped town so far), makes me doubt it. The cockiness and projected attachment to reads are definitely the best look for him, but it feels like he could certainly fake that as mafia.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:15 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:13 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:12 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:11 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:10 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:04 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:02 pm

I mean it's not impossible, my accuracy is wildly variable

I do feel pretty confident about this game tho so take that for what it's worth

i think you're very wrong on ilario. is that where you're confident?
like people who have played dozens of games with him are calling him obvious town - does that mean nothing to you?

i am willing to sponge your townread on transcend for 1 day if that's enough to let you sponge my townread on ilario then we find the remaining wolf partner to your ilario/x and my transcend/x world

what do you think?

I'm much more confident in my townreads

It means something, but not enough to change my mind atm

Ok, sure, would you rather vote wiml with me? That's my current second option

why do you scumread wiml? i'm just coming around to feeling confident he's town

His poe is, as I've mentioned previously, real bad

And he's otherwise meh

So thats probably where else I'd be interested

don't you care to find the logic behind his reads?

I care much more about the reads than the reasons for the reads 90% of the time

Explains a bit.
But it's not really helping.
I've read through his day 1. The things I've noticed are that he seems cocky, his reads have proven very accurate (there's a "lime could be mafia" thrown in at eod1 and lime was mafia), and he seems to have some attachment to his townreads specifically. Those townreads were highly accurate, if not 100%.
His pushes on wolves are lacking. He claims to have low confidence on them, so he spends the majority of day 1 correctly defending Transcend.
Him being alive could be explained by the fact LC decided to push on him on day 3, but I've already explained how LC didn't even seem to care about the push, so.

At this point, gun to head I would say town because of the combination of independent solving + confidence + cockiness + attachment, but I think this is still firmly in wolfrange. Not specifically his wolfrange, I don't know his wolfrange, but the general wolfrange of a decent wolf (which I assume he is).

I think I'm going to stop here and post day 2 separately, I don't want all my posts to be walls.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:48 pm

Vulgard wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 12:44 pm ???

Explain how illario looks bad off that ISO?

Soft-hard LC defense from Ilario throughout, note how LC clearly TMIs Alexa but treats Ilario differently

Huh. My impression was that LC was specifically keeping illario around and occasionally casting doubt on his read on the slot so that he could push illario lategame.

I’m going to ISO-dive now to see if I agree with clearing Nanook.

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 12:12 pm But I don’t want to believe winl was mafia. Because then that means, that on d2 the guy really did cross so many lines and for what?? Because he was being correctly fossed by myself and Alexa?? The dude went above and beyond in his emotional gaslighting throughout the game. like sure I can understand that from a town pov being mistreated. But if he’s maf then that means all that toxicity and unnecessary rudeness to us was because we were Reading him correctly??

Idk it’s just like a really sour taste in my mouth and like when I first met him he was like some nice sweet guy, probably the nicest of people I first met coming to the site. Idk how much of my townread on him is based on the fact that I just don’t want to accept he did all that shit as mafia just so we wouldn’t vote him or because he was frustrated at being correctly fossed and needed to vent his frustrations on us.

Do I even want to ask? That probably won't be helpful, I'm just... woah.
Well, the slot is town. Sorry to hear that happened.

Also.

"Good wall."
"Bad wall."
"Good wall."

How about you give actual reasons?

???

Explain how illario looks bad off that ISO?

I also really hate the fact Nanook had the me/illario world during this SoD, when I think we actually look great from LC's ISO and that illario's independently super villagery. TSP supporting it isn't any better. I can't give them any excuses for it, either, because as people who've read the whole game they should know this.

The only player I could say LC has ever tried to get killed this game was Mac on day 2, and that's a flipped villager. Even then, he didn't commit to it extra hard, but at least there was some commitment. The NANOOK/TSP wolfcase had some commitment in it, but no commitment after it.

I'll read TSP and Nanook's ISOs later to see how they have played and how they have talked about LC, but from LC's ISO alone these two look the worst. One is a villager, though.

Conclusions:

- LC spews illario town and illario also looks like a villager independently. I see no reason to doubt my townread on the slot based on LC's ISO; if anything, it's even stronger now.
- I think LC's ISO clears Ender as well. LC's treatment of the slot felt partnery at first but then I wrapped around to thinking it was pockety instead, since it felt consistent with how he treated many other flipped villagers throughout the game. There's also the fact his defense against Ender's ISO of him felt significantly more invested, genuinely, than nearly anything else he did for the entire game. If Ender were a wolf ISOing his partner for optics, I'd expect LC to be less invested in defending himself against that.

- TSP and Nanook are not cleared whatsoever and I think the wolfcase on Nanook in particular was done purely for optics. After posting it in BIG TEXT, LC has no posts that prove he has any attachment to the case, no posts that show he actually wants to get Nanook killed, and the same thing goes for TSP. He didn't try to misyeet them if they were villagers. Instead, as soon as my slot's name was brought to the table, he was like "okay I can sheep you let's kill Wiml." This proves that 1. he didn't actually care about the push as much as he portrayed at first, and 2. he was okay with killing my slot when he objectively should've been pushing Nanook and TSP. His avoidance of going through with the Nanook/TSP push leads me to believe the last wolf is within that group.

- The other thing about TSP and Nanook is that aside from the wolfcase, there isn't actually anything that clears them in LC's ISO, while there is in the case of Ender and Illario (and me). The way he treats my slot, Ender's slot and illario's slot points to these three slots being town. He tried to pocket Ender on numerous occasions and got cold feet when ISOd by him. He only townread illario because he was sheeping the villager he whiteknighted (alexa), and left several hints that he might flip on illario later on - therefore, he was keeping illario around as a lategame misyeet option. If illario were LC's partner, LC could just townread him and call it a day, but that isn't what he did. He kept introducing conditionals to his illario read, which seems to me that he planned to push illario at some point, and that isn't how I'd expect him to treat a partner given his play this game. LC's ISO makes it obvious he was trying to deepwolf and not bus for credit, fmpov. And as for my slot, he tried to get my slot to push flipped villagers a couple of times, and was always okay with pushing it despite repping other wolfreads, and despite casing Nanook and TSP. He also had this moment early in the game where my slot was in the middle of his readlist but he called it strong town for absolutely no reason other than TMI.

ISOing the dead wolf:

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:02 am Nah I think Alexa is fine her reads are typically all over the place as town.

Yeah, he TMId her as town super hard. Might just be the reason she was killed, honestly, nothing to do with framing anyone.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:29 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:28 am Which is usually have some decent reads and then wail in thread for three days

I'm laughing at this post.

Mild V points for TSP? Don't think this is how a wolf reacts to a partner's post, but it's nothing clearing.

He's doing a lot of "fillering" with Ender afterward, Transcend called him out on it.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:32 am Okay but seriously.

Townreads:
Alexa
Esooa
Ender
Nanook
Illario (Sheeping Alexa)


That's all I have currently.

Okay, now this is really weird. Alexa is his TMI townread and a flipped villager, Esooa's a flipped villager too. Nanook is here for no reason at all. His previous post about nanook was questioning why nanook was a wagon, and here he slots nanook into his townreads for no reason whatsoever. It reads like he's trying to defend Nanook without saying that he's defending Nanook, and that's a bad look for Nanook - because LC has no reason to do this if Nanook's V.

Ender being here is another thing. I haven't found a single line in LC's ISO where he visibly reaches the conclusion Ender's town, and he seems attached to the read despite most of his interactions with Ender being pure shitposting. I could actually see this one being a pocket on LC's part; I think their interactions are a little too strange to be partner interactions. However, I'm not closing the book on that option yet.

Illario being here specifically as "sheeping Alexa" looks like LC continuing to try and keep illario as a possible lategame misyeet. He townreads him with reservations, defers to alexa on the read, and seems to be setting up progression steps to flip on illario lategame. This is also where I retract my earlier point about him being bussable; if I'm correct about this, then he definitely wasn't playing with "being bussed" in mind, at least not early in the game. I don't think illario is a wolf, because if he's a wolf, then why does LC decide to put the greatest number of conditionals on his wolf partner townread? Wouldn't you want to slot your partner as confident town if you're going that route? By putting so many conditionals around them, you're maintaining suspicion on the slot, and you would generally want to diffuse it.

This only makes sense as partners with illario if LC trends toward bussing partners, in which case he's laying groundwork for a lategame bus, but he doesn't seem to play like a busser so far. He's not pushing aggressively and he seems to wish to invade the towncore. If anything, it seems he was trying to deepwolf (funny how that ended).

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:17 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:08 pm @Lime Coke can you explain your Ender read to me please?

The main thing I was townreading him for was his post when he stated that he figures that he'd lock my alignment in D2 or D3. Which I found oddly accurate because that's when people I know will usually find me when I'm mafia.

That actually looks super partnery with Ender, because he's insisting Ender's town for a pretty bad reason, and he's insisting on that while interacting with my slot. The shielding doesn't feel natural. Or rather, it doesn't feel like shielding a villager to me, because the fabricated reason's super terrible. If Ender were town being whiteknighted, I'd expect LC to find a better reason for the whiteknighting simply because those reasons would have to exist (townies are inherently towny in some ways and wolves can pick up on that). I think I'm explaining this poorly, but basically, if Ender were town I'd expect LC's reasons for defending him to be better. It's harder to find reasons for shielding a partner than it is for shielding a villager when you're a wolf, because villagers are inherently villagery and wolves are not.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:17 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:07 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:05 pm Y'all seriously have to fucking push me at the worst times?

I'm driving now fuck off for a second.

matt's been pushing you from day one

ilario and i commented that your lack of reaction to that is a bit odd but .. it's not really a push, relax

I know Matt has been pushing me all game I just got annoyed with others coming in on that, sorry.

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:48 pm i'm surprised that alison isn't confident LC is town this game if she ranks his scum game a 2 lols

She's seen how bad I play as scum. You can read our maf chat I was literally asking her what to do the ENTIRE game and did draft posts in the chat.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:51 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:05 pm Y'all seriously have to fucking push me at the worst times?

I'm driving now fuck off for a second.

Theres no hammer today so

Also, like, people push when they push, there's no rule or etiquette that says you have to wait for someone to be online to push them lol

I know, I just got annoyed by that happening right before I leave. I always get pushed at the worst possible times, like when I'm about to go to sleep or about to drive and I'm forced to stay on and defend myself otherwise it looks like I froze and I'm outed because I leave the game when I start being pushed.

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:53 pm @Lime Coke can you explain your townread on Nanook/out an ordered reads' list when you have a chance?

I'll answer the question first;

I started townreading Nanook early for townreading and coming to your defense in the early game. That's actually it, I haven't really read him since then because he was away until today while I was at work so I haven't paid enough attention to his posts.

The Nanook townread here is equally ??? as Ender's, but here, he leaves a caveat to move to scumreading him. He doesn't leave that caveat for Ender.
Which actually looks more partnered with Ender than Nook, if I assume he's been trying to defend his partner and not bus them. The lack of wolf flips until yesterday points toward defending, or slotting in PoE and pushing elsewhere - but LC doesn't even have a PoE at this point, so.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:23 pm READLIIIIIIST:


Town:
Alexa
Esooa
Ender
Alison
Illario
Wiml
Mac
Nanook
TSP
Transcend
Maf:

The bottom 3 are more POE.

Something something rule of 3 (Nanook/TSP/Transcend).

Ender really has no right to be this high.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:39 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:38 pm Wiml just feels like solid town to me

Same.

Okay, he's outright TMIng my slot town here. Compare Wiml's placement on his previous readlist to the statement he presents here. The readlist had Wiml roughly at null - smack dab in the middle of it. But here, he's like "Wiml is solid town." There is absolutely no explanation for it, no progression, no justification, nothing. He just says that seemingly on instinct or based on a fabricated gut feeling. And sure, you could argue that he has no reason to call my slot solid town when I'm an open misyeet option, but the fact remains that he does - and it's so out of left field that it reads like instinctive TMI rather than anything agenda'd. I'll see if he was planning to shield my slot later in the game, but either way this is complete nonsense to me.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:04 pm Ender just magically knows people's meta without actually being in games with them. I wish I had that ability.

The more he randomly mentions Ender like this, though, the more I feel like Ender might just be a villager LC's trying to pocket. He has more interactions with Ender and alexa than anyone else in the game so far, and alexa flipped town.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:19 pm Always know, that wherever you are, Ender will be there.

Posts like these. Like, sure, wolves can interact with each other, but what I'm seeing here is that LC keeps randomly mentioning Ender and Ender alone, while Ender doesn't seem to be mentioning LC as much - at least, there's nothing as visible in this ISO. The constant mentioning of Ender and not trying to fake determining his alignment reads as simultaneously: TMI on Ender being town and trying to pocket Ender with this commentary.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:38 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:37 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:19 pm Always know, that wherever you are, Ender will be there.

Oh god. LC stop making me sound like a stalker

The way you're saying everything is fucking hilarious to me.

Probably the pocketiest (is that even a word?) post about this so far.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:53 pm I don't think we can use the Gira "Kill the more active players will allow mafia players to eat on inactivity" because this game has been one of the most active I've ever played...EVERYONE has been active.

And I say that as a EM player...

LC'S PARTNER MUST BE A HIGHPOSTER BECAUSE OF THIS COMMENT!!! HIGHPOSTERS WOLVES!!!
Just kidding. But really, this ISO is a dumpster fire so far. I'm not sure why this was ever townread, hence my earlier comment. What were you doing while I wasn't here?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:23 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:19 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:12 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:55 am if wiml is town then esooa/Alison/ilario/transcend contain wolves with ilario/esooa or ilario/Alison or transcend/Alison being the team

if Alison is town its wiml/transcend with esooa as swing

if transcend is town it's just wiml/ilario

if ilario is town wiml is always a wolf

if esooa is town it's wiml/transcend with Alison as swing

I'm talking this type of post, is there a world where Mac makes this post as mafia?

Yes, he obviously can. This kind of post is extremely easy to make as mafia, I don't know why you felt it was unfakeable.

Just felt like an extremely intricate post that would be hard to make as mafia.

Then again I guess I have a lot to learn?

If you've seen him do this before then I believe you. Not the first time I've incorrectly townread someone for 1 singular reason.

More TMIng flipped villagers as town...

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:40 pm With the way this game is going honestly, I feel like we'll get a mafia flip at EOD. Got some nice confidence this game.

This is not a post written by someone whose partner is in a bad spot at the time. Sure, it's fakeable, but this post's very existence points toward the partner being either miscleared or under the radar. LC reads to me like a somewhat impulsive player who tried to invade the towncore all game, my psychological read tells me this post would not exist if the wolf was PoEd already.

What was the day 1 consensus at the time? I looked through a few pages around the time of LC writing this post, but I didn't find anything like a read summary - other than a push on Mac, which gives me nothing as he's a flipped villager.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:19 am

Transcend wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:43 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:40 pm With the way this game is going honestly, I feel like we'll get a mafia flip at EOD. Got some nice confidence this game.

Why do you think i'm mafia

I had a list of reasons but I forgot as the day is ending and I end up taking stuff that makes me sleepy but here we go.

Scumreading me, then the slight shade towards Ender for his "future push" on me as if you thought I was town, then going back to scumreading me immediately.

The denial of the "god townread" on Alexa and the meta explanations.

I actually had like 4 total reasons to scumread you but that was at like 8 PM my time, it's 12 now and I lost the other 2 reasons.

This dude is openwolfing. I know I keep mentioning this, but this read has virtually no progression behind it (c4, go away) and seems to exist just for the sake of having a scumread. There's no play by discovery here. He hasn't shown any indication of getting to that read within the thread, he just randomly mentioned this out of the blue for the first time here and it largely looks like sheeping the incorrect thread consensus.

Meh, it doesn't matter, I'm just slightly salty despite not even being in the game until day 3, when I dunked on him after reading like 2 pages of his ISO. Get rekt LC.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:07 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:05 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:03 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:02 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:01 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:00 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:59 pm like you're arguing i would've caught a bullet if my reads were right when me and alison had the same exact POE

What am I arguing sorry?

you made a sarcastic comment about me

I am just tilted by you blocking pushes by matter of factly stating people are town. I find it scummy by default.

She's defending her townreads, she does that all the time as town. She literally did that ALL throughout Anniversary game.

Tell me more about your Alexa read.

If I enter Final 3 with Alexa I snap vote the third person.

I'm that confident she's town.

I've made this read before, I've been right every time.

You don't have the right to steal my phrasing.

He keeps talking about alexa. Half of his ISO is a defense of alexa. I'm skipping over it mostly.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:24 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:23 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:22 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:19 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:18 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:15 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:59 pm

I'm mean I'm pretty sure you can add Wiml to Esooa's list because she's literally been pushing him since Day 1.

Nah its in their teammate range. Especially given Esooa was a little bit hedgey about it d1 and Wiml was never at actual risk.

Wasn't he a wagon at EOD?

The one you were on before you switched to Transcend after getting him on said wagon for some reason?

You have been exceedingly scummy today. What's that about?

Switching the subject when I point something that you did out?

do you want me to say something about the thing you say I did I have no memory of?

You were on Wiml, you told Transcend to self pres. Then he voted Wiml. Then you voted Transcend immediately after.

Don't act like you didn't do that.

I've just realized that my slot had like 700 posts yet LC failed to mention it once outside of that singular interaction with it and then calling it town for no reason. He's also doing something weird to Mac here, where he's kinda chainsawing him for getting Transcend to vote Wiml and then voting Transcend. He TMId my slot as town the whole game, lol.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:32 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:31 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:29 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:55 pm [VOTE: wiml] aubergine

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:55 pm now I am trying to wagon you fren

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:56 pm transcend you have a chance to save yourself here.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:57 pm

Transcend wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:56 pm Turtl can stay

This will show my true token of friendship

Bowing out to save a friend

If you are town and do this and he is a wolf I am gonna not in in any games with you again. Not hostile but I just don't vibe that.

Transcend wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:58 pm Fine i'll self pres

TRANSCEND CHANGES HIS VOTE TO WIML HERE

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:58 pm [VOTE: transcend] aubergine

YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU DIDN'T DO THIS!?

I'm sorry but I don't see what point you're trying to prove.

ARE YOU TELLING ME THIS IS NOT SCUMMY OF HIM?

HE LITERALLY CHANGES LAST SECOND TO TRANSCEND AFTER TELLING TRANS TO SWITCH HIS VOTE!

WHAT WAS THAT????

Yeah.
Anyway.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:07 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:06 pm Sorry I'm going to leave the thread for the night I think.

I appreciate everyone in this game a lot.

Yup take a breather, turtle. It's mafia, things get heated unfortunately.

Take care of yourself though.

Reminds me of the Wiggin stuff.
I know I said I wouldn't talk about this anymore, but.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:55 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:53 pm LC.

What reads do you have not named Alexa

Townread you

Townread Esooa (Second strongest)

Townread Illario

Scumread Mac

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:58 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:56 pm Why do you townread me?

I literally can't remember why I just remember'd that I townread you and I don't think I'd vote you any time soon.

Lmao.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:59 am Alexa is town.

TSP is wolf.

This should be easy.

I'm driving to work now I'll be on sporadically.

No progression on calling TSP a wolf. Like, at all. He'd had no read on the slot for the entire game until then.
If TSP was thread consensus W at the time, this is another case of him following a thread consensus that was ~probably~ mistaken.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:23 am @EnderWiggin

Turbo games aren't exactly the games to go off of because they kinda suck.

If you want town meta, go through Shakespeare Maf (this game is a lot closer to that) or Reflections from the Mountaintop.

If you want maf meta, you already went through the 1 mafia game I won (I've lost the others ) and 18er is the other.


This game I've been pulled into defending Alexa incredibly hard, which believe it or not takes way too much energy out of me and I lose game state awareness.
Shakespeare were 3 hour days where I had to hard defend Alexa for like, the first 2 hours, then EOD, or at least the last 10 minutes, came and I'd be clueless on who to vote.

That's kinda the issue this game which I kinda need to learn from but yeah.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:35 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:56 am I kinda think LC is wolf. I'm not super confident because the Arts and Crafts did show he can play a decent wolf game, but from ALL of the other wolfgames including JOATED he doesn't show the same solvy approach I see in every one of his town games.

Also Arts and Crafts was a fluke win I didn't play that great of a game. Town ate itself alive starting with the CFD on a town when the wagon was on a maf member Day 1. I should not have won that.

I'm starting to see what Ender was talking about re: his push on LC being a good look for him. Judging by how LC's responding to it, I can see that.

Also, Ender's pointing out the exact problem with LC's ISO until this point. He's just not solving. And it's very obvious.

A lot of defending. He does a lot of defending later, defending against the Ender ISO that I probably shouldn't quote because this post is enormous already. The most important part is that he is super committed to defending himself. If it were a W/W push I feel like he wouldn't have the need to defend himself so much.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:14 pm Plus you're noticing my reads are off, that's because my reads have BEEN off.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... IA-WINS%29

This game on my main my legacy reads at the end were "SPF AND CHELSEA TOWN" and hard shielded them.
SPF was town, Chelsea was maf.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... bed-a-Bank
This game I was on Mystery Player, my legacy reads were "SPF AND DUNYA TOWN" and hard shielded them, including me saying I'd bingewatch a show of Dunya's choosing if she was mafia.
SPF was town, Dunya was mafia and I'm watching Elite on Netflix now.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... f-the-Rift
This game my legacy reads and my hard shield was on Neopest and I was holding people at gunpoint to townread Katze .
NEO TOWN, KATZE MAF

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... Experiment
This (shitty) game I had both Alexa and Neo town as my legacy reads.
Alexa was town, Neo was maf.


You understand why I'm being so cautious about my reads right now? Any time I spout multiple legacy reads, I've been dead wrong on some of them.

I'm usually right on one player, but the second player I end up being totally wrong and I fuck the town over by hardshielding a wolf.

One example. There's a lot more around that time.
Now, put yourself in the mind of LC if Ender's his partner. He knows that Ender probably doesn't plan to bus him because the posts aren't a push, they are a mere analysis. He knows that Ender knows his alignment and this entire thing is fake. He knows that Ender can pivot away from LC and into a villager, that the push is likely just for show.

Therefore, LC shouldn't feel the need to defend himself from it so much if they were W/W. But he does. In fact, when it comes to volume in his posts, his highest-volume posts so far are the posts where he's defending himself against Ender. He cares about defending himself here. He has investment. He does not want to die.

Which should make Ender "just town."

Noting the complete lack of mentions of Nanook so far, and of TSP (aside from calling TSP a wolf for no reason, possibly based on thread consensus, and then not even pushing on him), throughout this day 2. ...And of Illario, actually.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:29 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:53 am @Lime Coke @ilario @alexa @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME @Wiml @EnderWiggin @TonyStarkPrime @Esooa

if there was one player in the game you would say is most likely town and one who is most likely mafia who would they be? plz tag me in reply.

@MacDougall

Most likely town: Alexa

Most likely Mafia: None of your business Nanook

What?
Where did the TSP wolfread go?
Where did the Mac wolfread go? He had this entire emotional post about why Mac was mafia and now he suddenly doesn't wolfread Mac? Mac's a flipped villager, but still.

The TSP wolfread was just for optics, it seems. And randomly calling Nanook mafia here is probably also for optics.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:34 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:26 am @Lime Coke ur shielding alexa hard, are you shield ilario with the same vigour?

Not Illario.

If there's anyone that's second highest townread to me it is Esooa but she hasn't had any pressure on her so I didn't need to shield.

He outright proves my earlier point here. He's not shielding illario because he wants illario as a misyeet option available later in the game. I feel confident about this. He's treating illario exactly how I'd expect a wolf to treat a villager who's not a viable push early on but might become one later in the game.

This just makes me more suspicious of Nanook and TSP at this point. The world they both pushed this SoD is a world of two villagers fmpov, and neither has clearing interactions with LC so far. Neither has anything on LC's part that spews them town, either. I feel better about TSP than about Nanook on a personal level because of our live interactions, but those don't make me confident enough by themselves.

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:16 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:05 pm I WILL PUT MY RESPONSES IN GIANT BOLD LETTERS TO MAKE THIS EASIER TO READ!!!

Maybe not 200 font, but the 150 seems to work.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:06 am LC ISO:

Spoiler: show

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:42 pm I actually don't have a single read yet.

His first non-fluff is saying he doesn't have reads.

Then:

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:19 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:18 pm Whose gonna be your hard-shield this game LC?

You're voting them.

When questioned he puts this up to start shielding Alexa.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't actually townread Alexa at the time. However you asked the question, I was answering seeing that if I ended up townreading Alexa, which I did about an hour later, I would've hard shielded her like I usually do.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:23 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:20 pm But they were hedgy LC.

That's what's weird I don't really know what there is to hedge yet. Only thing is a townread on me from Mac before she stated that as far as I can see immediately.

Takes my joke super seriously. Sometimes it's a scumtell sometimes not.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I have the "Take jokes seriously is scummy" policy myself, so I get where you're coming from on this.

But in my response, I didn't think that was a joke post. When you responded with "It was a joke" that was why I responded with "I'm a fucking idiot" because I indeed felt like an idiot and I broke my own rule due to a misunderstanding.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:41 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:38 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:21 pm Like, she hasn't really done anything that's her town game YET. If Alexa gets going she'll be obvious town.

Everything I do is my town game because I’m town

(I also agree I don’t think I’ve done anything AI yet if someone had a correct read on me it would be surprising or a crapshoot from numbers/probability odds)

Yes, and everyone that is townreading you that's not me has TMI.

I will then tunnel those individuals, and then complain about them once they flip town and take 0 blame.

Then proceed to lead town into an L.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:46 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:41 pm I don’t think he would like not out a read on me/be hesitant to read me if he was wolfing here, to me it sounds like town who is worried I’m wolf/worried he won’t be able to find me since he worries I’m not as obvious town as the previous times I was town (and I can see him wanting to be able to catch me if I’m wolf too) so I feel his approach me makes sense as a villager

This actually kinda hits it on the head and I'm townreading you now because of that explanation.

Spoiler: show

You gotta flip wolf against me eventually, though.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:49 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:47 pm LC is town, I agree.

If I'm wrong on this it'll be obvious by Day 3.

This is...fucking accurate and I've never actually said anything about this.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:49 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:47 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:08 pmmac town

I can’t figure out how to multiquote from my phone but pretend I quoted this quote and also you calling wiml town and then Mac wolf

And my response is .... are you going to explain anything?

You have the quote button, then to the right of that is the 2 word bubbles, that is collects for multi-quote.

@alexa

Then this string, which doesn't do a lot.

Focuses on the Alexa read, then helps mech.

Nothing too important.

Then some more non-interactions like:

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:57 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:55 pmI'm town

Are you?

And then outs a basic ass townread on me like:

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:01 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:59 pm kind of gut townreading EnderWiggin

Agreeing with you. The "I'll find him by Day 3" post was actually kinda bad ass and towny.

Has some early townreads and interactions, also has a hard-shield player.

He then spends a majority of the next posts defending Alexa from various sussing, then susses Ilario hard.

Then Alison causes a bit of sus to come LC's direction and he fends it off okay.

Just saw that I rate a 7/10 on Alison's scum game quality eval.

Just noting here that I actually feel like I can do better than that. I will either improve or prove that I'm worth of at least a 9/10 some time in the future. /ego

Then a bunch more fluff including great snark at me.

Then:

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:55 am I was eating popcorn.

Why does Nanook have a wagon?

Incidentally his first mention of Nanook all game.

A lot more fluff.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:32 am Okay but seriously.

Townreads:
Alexa
Esooa
Ender
Nanook
Illario (Sheeping Alexa)


That's all I have currently.

Then finally puts out a general townlist. This is fine.

Then plays HARD shield, which is normally a good look for LC.

THEN gets in a fight with Transcend.

THEN outs this reads list:

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:23 pm READLIIIIIIST:


Town:
Alexa
Esooa
Ender
Alison
Illario
Wiml
Mac
Nanook
TSP
Transcend
Maf:

The bottom 3 are more POE.

Which is just hilarious to me.

Then mostly fluff and directly joking with Alexa.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:11 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:06 pm Hi. What is your solve?

Transcend is 1, and the other is either Nanook or maybe TSP?

I don't know the stuff with Mac. Is Mac capable of making that many team solves at once as mafia?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:12 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:55 am if wiml is town then esooa/Alison/ilario/transcend contain wolves with ilario/esooa or ilario/Alison or transcend/Alison being the team

if Alison is town its wiml/transcend with esooa as swing

if transcend is town it's just wiml/ilario

if ilario is town wiml is always a wolf

if esooa is town it's wiml/transcend with Alison as swing

I'm talking this type of post, is there a world where Mac makes this post as mafia?

Then moves to this Mac read, this is a little nuanced compared to previous stuff I remember from his wolf game.

Then more fluff and defense of Alexa.

Actually gives solid thoughts on why Alexa is town, but this is not outside LC wolf range.

D2 he actually asks a few questions while continuing with the Alexa shield.

Starts to press Mac hard. Most of the rest of his game is aggro on LC

THIS IS WHERE THE FUN STARTS.

Time to cross-reference.

IN JOATED:
Plays very similar. Outs strong townread and defends. Aggros on some people. Offers some townreads. Generally gets quieter as the game goes.

I actually reckon LC is in his scum range.

In the little town exposure, I've seen him make reads where he explains the reasoning for his decisions, as if showing off the way he's mentally arrived at this thought.

In this game he has only outed townreads, with the only one he's properly explained is his Alexa shield.

This is exactly the same as in JOATED where he only outed reasons for shielding Honey.

Interestingly, I actually think LC's current play is more scum!Indicative of him than town.

Turns out I can change my mind.

Okay, there wasn't much that I could actually respond to? This was mostly commentary. I DON'T know how to respond to commentary.

You say I fell off but I kinda do that as town too? Like Illario said, I start off strong, usually Day 1 I play really well, but by Day 3 or 4 I lose energy, motivation, and interest depending on how well the game is going.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... f-the-Rift

Another town game I was on my alt Mystery Player, which is not a mystery anymore . I was strong all of Day 1, then Day 2 I hard defend Neo (NEO TOWN!) and go crazy with it (Again I'm trying to calm down), but my energy level went down further and further as the game went on because it was exhausting, and SaraC was annoying me.

I lose steam in games, this game specifically is draining me a bit. Like I said in games that I hard shield Alexa, or others, I end up losing game awareness and I forget most of my reads it's an awful ass habit.

I'll post this for now but I'm going to continue on, give me a few minutes.

To add to why I don’t like this post:

His initial reaction is “okay there isn’t much that I can actually respond to? I don’t know how to respond to commentary”

Why does he feel the need to be able to respond to anything? I feel like that’s more of a scum mindset, where you see a case against you and you need to try and disprove it. I feel like my first instinct if I were to see a case on me would be to determine if the case is coming in good or bad faith. I don’t feeel like LC does anything there to evaluate Enders push on him.

By the way, this is an extremely villagery post by illario, and also 100% correct. I'm back to thinking illario's just always a villager here. I also think he's correct in that it makes Ender look significantly better in hindsight.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:12 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:10 pm brad what's your reads list right now?

Best to worst.

Alexaaaaaa
Esooa
Illario
Wiml
Mac
Ender
TSP
Nanook

LC continues to put TSP and Nanook close to the bottom of his readlists but never actually push them.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:51 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:49 pm Like I have no idea what wolf!mac would gain by doing this rn

GET HIM!!!!

HE'S RIGHT THERE!!!!!

LOOK AT IT!!!!

Spoiler: show

LOOK AT HER! ❤

Spoiler: show

I miss her.

Blatantly encouraging a villager to vote a villager.
Illario's just town.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:18 pm THIS IS A GIANT SCUMCASE OF NANOOK
-snip-

Snipped because this is absurdly long already. But this is by far the best look for Nanook and TSP. The fact he's calling the team Nanook and TSP here.
THAT SAID. He ended up dying that day, and it's not impossible he was already in antispew here. This is the only moment when he potentially spews Nanook and TSP town; his previous posts about them were all nothingburgers that didn't really point in the V direction for either of them. I can't say the same about illario or Ender; he's been consistently spewing illario and Ender town, although some of his posts about Ender early on looked partnery.

For that reason, I believe this isn't clearing for either of them. Especially since TSP and NANOOK both wanted to outright hammer LC. I feel like at least one of them wanted to do that on purpose so that he'd either stop spewing or that we'd get less time for discussion. I vocally requested time to read the game and stuff, but it was cut short by the hammer.

Considering all this, while the pushes from LC here are unquestionably a good look for TSP and NANOOK, I wouldn't say this isn't something that could be constructed in scumchat. Especially since his thread position here was already significantly worse than before, as far as I could tell. And also because TSP/NANOOK can't be wolves together, so realistically, even if LC did include a partner in there, he still had a contingency in the form of the villager he pushed here. He could just push the villager over the wolf and "re-evaluate" later if he wanted.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:01 am

alexa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:58 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:55 pm

alexa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:53 pm i feel like i've been playing this game like absolute fucking shit and a large part of me just wants out

You're playing fine <3

I think we're getting close to the actual solve. If we're confident in our townreads then we can easily corner mafia.

You're still 100% on Ilario right? I'm leaving it to you because you read him better.

uhhh i don't know. i think i am. i don't want to vote him right now

this thought process is villagery from you i think @.@

If you're more confident on Wiml being maf then I'll be fine with voting him out today, then. I'll trust your instincts on this one.

Notice how he pivots to my slot as soon as he has an excuse. He doesn't have nearly as much attachment to these Nanook/TSP wolfreads, and the Nanook case in particular, as he postures to have when he posts the case. That's why it isn't clearing.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:57 am I'm shifting at Vulgard though, Wiml had me townread at first.

Then Vulgard gets on and his shade on me is like...

1. "I find LC to be town, but in this game he's scummy"

2. LC asking what post cap is makes him scummy.

3. LC agrees often with what his top townread says.

I feel like the dude is seeing Ender's vote on me and is trying to take advantage by shading posts that aren't really anything.

This is outright bad faith regarding my slot, misconstruing my arguments at the time, but I did not get to respond to it because someone hammered him before I could.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:59 am

ilario wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:57 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:54 am

ilario wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:49 am Cos ur not even pushing him that much

I don't necessarily "push" on people. My idea is to "gather the troops" and 1 by 1 get people to vote out who I want voted out.

This was similar to how I won cop CC battles on EpicMafia. I would basically just ATE the entire player roster 1 by 1 to get them to vote out my CC.

I was somewhat doing the same here until Alexa stood her ground and spoke about wanting Wiml out instead, that's when I unvoted and spoke about my intentions of voting out Wiml.

Huh?? How did wiml get into this? Isn’t ur case on nanook??

Are you reading what's going on?

Yes I cased Nanook.

But when I tried to talk to Alexa about getting him, she told me she would rather get Wiml. So I decided "sure, why the fuck not?" since there's dead towns that scumread the slot before dying.

Proof that his Nanook case was completely for show. Written by LC himself.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:08 pm I gotta get ready and drive to work.

[VOTE: Wulgard] aubergine

Incase I don't get back in time.

Can't even spell my nickname correctly.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:48 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:40 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:30 pm @TonyStarkPrime do you have any reason why I think that nanook or ender would in particular want syn gone ?

The same question applies to @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME and @EnderWiggin about tsp and each other

I dont understand your question

Wolfy post.

Spoiler: show

jk

Yeah, he totally believes NANOOK is mafia, I am so convinced.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:38 pm Look, if you're going to scumread me, and if I somehow get misyeeted based off of your conf-bias. I need to do some sort of house cleaning before going.

First of all, @EnderWiggin if you're considering any scum between Alexa/Ilario, the scum is probably Ilario in that. Like I've told Mac, if I get into F3 with Alexa I'm snap voting the third person the moment the day starts. That's how confident I am with her being town.

Vulgard slot is most likely mafia with the way he started going after me when he realized he subbed into a slot that was getting a lot of heat. He saw you were tunneling me and he wants to feed off of it.

He really wants illario to die, doesn't he? But he's subtle about it. More points in illario's favor.

...Not sure what happened there.
Anyway.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:09 am

Vulgard wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:07 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:05 am Illario, Alexa, Esooa, and several others had LC at town.

I stepped in and pulled a wolf-case out of my ass.

It took me TWO DAYS to get them flipped.

Don't fucking say that it was "Easy wolf-pick"

The only other people that picked up on it were Alison early (N1 kill) and Transcend (D1 flip)

This is the problem with replacing into games that have had a ton of posts, I simply don't know. I'm making a lot of assumptions. It seemed like an easy wolf-pick to me because he wasn't villagery even on day 1, but I don't actually know how the game went.

Start by ISOing the dead wolf.

Will do.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:09 am

Vulgard wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:07 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:05 am Illario, Alexa, Esooa, and several others had LC at town.

I stepped in and pulled a wolf-case out of my ass.

It took me TWO DAYS to get them flipped.

Don't fucking say that it was "Easy wolf-pick"

The only other people that picked up on it were Alison early (N1 kill) and Transcend (D1 flip)

This is the problem with replacing into games that have had a ton of posts, I simply don't know. I'm making a lot of assumptions. It seemed like an easy wolf-pick to me because he wasn't villagery even on day 1, but I don't actually know how the game went.

Start by ISOing the dead wolf.

Will do.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:06 am

Vulgard wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:05 am Alexa dying here could possibly mean something, but I'd need higher gamestate awareness to figure out what.
Anyone got any ideas?

Alexa was shielding LC until I wore her into voting him.

After LC is dead, having the consensus townread protecting LC wasn't relevant anymore.

I felt like her OMGUSing me would be a problem if LC was town, because having that in LyLo and her being town would be pure pain. Could've been killed to implicate me, I suppose, since she did push on me yesterday a bit (and more on Wiml earlier afaik?). But she also voted like 3 other players yesterday, so that's probably not very meaningful.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:05 am Illario, Alexa, Esooa, and several others had LC at town.

I stepped in and pulled a wolf-case out of my ass.

It took me TWO DAYS to get them flipped.

Don't fucking say that it was "Easy wolf-pick"

The only other people that picked up on it were Alison early (N1 kill) and Transcend (D1 flip)

This is the problem with replacing into games that have had a ton of posts, I simply don't know. I'm making a lot of assumptions. It seemed like an easy wolf-pick to me because he wasn't villagery even on day 1, but I don't actually know how the game went.

Alexa dying here could possibly mean something, but I'd need higher gamestate awareness to figure out what.
Anyone got any ideas?

...I just called NANOOK "Banook."

I have no idea how that happened.

I may think Ender is a wolf, but I'm not nearly confident enough to slap a vote on him and leave the thread, so I'll read more. Me being wrong on illario isn't impossible, I just find it unlikely considering what I've seen from him on day 1.

And before someone complains about how I keep focusing on day 1 - that's the only part of the game I've read, and not even in full. This is the pain of replacing into a game with a ton of posts, I can't reasonably parse everything. But I will try.

Okay, so here’s the deal.

1. I would’ve liked to talk more yesterday, “thanks” for hammering.
2. I don’t think it’s illario, and it isn’t me. The solve Banook and TSP seem to be pushing (especially NANOOK) is wrong somewhere.
3. LC wasn’t a difficult wolf to catch when you actually looked at their posts and realized they weren’t solving the game. I expected most players in this game to realize that. I assume he was already a wagon when I replaced in for a good reason. Therefore, I think giving too much credit to people who pushed on him earlier in the game is a mistake. It’s possible the other wolf always planned to bus and was setting up for it at the time. I mean, if LC was pushed on by a few players earlier in the game, why have those players not died? I realize I’m missing some context here and may be mistaken in my assumptions, but I really do think lock clearing anyone for this is a mistake.
4. I personally think the most likely wolf is Ender based on what I’ve seen ‘in the moment’ from each player, and on a more macro level from specifically illario. I haven’t read enough NANOOK and TSP posts on day 1 to have a macroread on them, but I think illario’s been consistently villagery to a point that I can’t see myself voting him this game, probably not even in final 3. NANOOK had a fairly towny entrance day 1, and TSP has been fairly towny “in the moment,” in my opinion. This SOD from him, and our brief real-time interactions, remind me of Elder Scrolls, where we were V/V. Ender hasn’t been villagery, and while I haven’t seen the part where he “pushed LC” yet, by the sound of it – everyone alive has pushed LC, so…?
5. As for who’s a wolf if Ender isn’t – I’ll figure this out in f3 if I’m alive, because it strongly depends on who’s nightkilled. My current reads go illario>TSP>NANOOK>Ender, and that’s fairly obvious if you look at how I’m talking about each slot, so I might as well make it clear.
6. I’ll be ISOing people today to get a better overview of the game, and I’d appreciate it if you didn’t quickhammer again.
7. Sorry, alexa!

Meh, I don't think this is going to be very productive.

My reads are in the thread. I don't see myself doing much more today, but I'll probably keep reading tomorrow.

Vote's on Coke and I'd prefer to kill him before anyone else atm.

Glgl.

I only have information from day one (not even all of it) and even said as much just now.

Now, who's being uncharitable?

alexa wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:00 am

ilario wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:59 am

alexa wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:56 am @ilario - Vulgard's posts on me feel extreme Uncharitable but i know i tend to get my view tainted by people's reads on me but it's not inspiring confidence on the slot, what do you think?

hes town, and im not just saying that cos he trd me, if anything that made me a little wary. but then i thought to myself he would probably be less blatant about it if he were trying to pocket me

i disagree because it feels like he went into it with "oh maybe alexa is a wolf because she seems excited" (even though this game has been pretty miserable for me and i explained my excitement) then he went and started nit-picking my posts w/that assumption so i feel like he's pocketing you

That was the start of it, sure, but I fail to see how that's a problematic assumption. I didn't even put that much weight on it, it just made me take a closer look.
The pocketing remark is w/e, I can see people think that. It happens to me all the time when I townread people.

alexa wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:01 am plus he literally knows my playstyle is like this cuz he's seen me in anni

I think your anni game was significantly townier than this and I thought you were obvious town on day 1. Suffice to say, I don't think so here.

And oh, Lime Coke's Brad? Somehow, that didn't even occur to me until now.
Turbo the guy, in that case. I villaged with him in DragonVale (admittedly he was alting but not for long) and his play didn't look like this.

@alexa How uncharitable of me to wolfread someone who's constantly self-aware, overreacts to the slightest wolfread, seeks to appease people scumreading them and pushed Transcend for bad reasons on day 1 according to TSP. I could probably spare the sarcasm, but the fact you're OMGUSing me right away for this is honestly laughable.

There are some villagery things you've done, and you've definitely been solving, but I don't think it's unreasonable for me not to townread you based on what I've seen from you in the early game, which is all that I've seen so far. And considering you seem to have misyeeted Transcend who'd be among my top TRs right now if he were alive. Yes, villagers make mistakes and push on town all the time, but I'm not sure how you can have this "scumreading me is bad faith ditto" attitude with all that in mind.

I don't hold my DragonVale misyeet against people like illario because I defended two wolves in that game and it was natural to me I'd get suspected. If you're a villager, it should be natural to you too, but instead I sense immense salt.

Don't take this personally, this isn't an attack on your character. But regardless, I think me not townreading you and putting you in PoE is perfectly fine. And sure, LC defended you on a meta basis, but LC is also very wolfy - so I don't weigh that much, if at all. Plus, you defended him as well, and I think he probably flips W now. I won't pursue this line until I actually see LC's flip, but yeah.

Transcend wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:04 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:52 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:49 am I don't know how to say this

You start by putting the TH together.

Then you add the I to make the "eh" sound.

Then you put the S at the end.

THIS.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:53 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:51 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:50 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:49 am I don't know how to say this

Lol say it. Go on. Do it.

worcestershire

It was harder figuring out how to spell it/spell it close enough so that the auto correct would list it. I had to google it.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:57 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:56 am What are you gesturing at Mac?

His drink is on the table behind you and he wants you to hand him his drink.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:00 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:00 am if Mac lives to day 2 I will quick hammer him, promise, no joke

You're funny.

like srsly why do ppl tr lime?

these are his 4 most recent posts, and none of them rly advance the game state.

town!brad tends to advance the game state quite a bit by offering his own insight on events that occur in the game but all this shit just feels blendy.

THANK YOU
WHY DID THEY KILL YOU DAY 1 THIS MAKES NO SENSE oiajegoieagale

alexa wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:54 am

Vulgard wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:44 am

alexa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:47 pm ah, makes sense

well i will say the games that illario has read me the most uncharitably have been his scum games historically. if i were him i wouldn't take the approach toward me right out of the gate as wolf so i'm a bit hesitant to call him scum, in my gut i actually feel he may be town because i kept expecting him to not townread me immediately in a game (and he doesn't always but he never has outed a SR me on this except when he was scum), and i feel like i'm approaching this game similarly as i would as wolf so i could see it, but in addition to what brad's saying i can't townread him yet

The continued self-awareness is killing me, but I'm starting to think it's a personality thing and not AI.

didn't i defend you for gettin sussed for being overly self-aware in anni because ik im self-aware as town all the time or am i misremembering

Idr anything like that. I'm not sure I'd call myself self-aware, but that's probably not something I can determine by myself.

Transcend wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:55 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:54 am Turbo Mac time.

Only been live for half a day and already caught first red.

the conviction in this post doesn't feel sincere honestly

I keep agreeing with Transcend on everything he says.

Fwiw, Ender is doing the exact same thing, but at least he's interacting with Mac and Transcend throughout, so it's slightly better.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:52 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:49 am I don't know how to say this

You start by putting the TH together.

Then you add the I to make the "eh" sound.

Then you put the S at the end.

THIS.

Like, he's doing this instead. This is real openwolfing. He fizzled out so hard from his early pages, and it really shows. He's out of steam already, since as soon as the Epicmafia discourse ended (I think that's the community they were talking about), and he hasn't even tried to start solving yet. This really does look like what people such as Alison described as a 2/10 wolfgame and I'm starting to wonder how this wasn't yeeted day 1 over Transcend.

Lime Coke completely ignoring Mac's openwolfing on page 13 and ignoring Transcend's contributions to it is also super wolfy, because it's like he knows it's V/V and there's no reason to prevent Mac from getting himself killed.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:44 am I mean I wouldn't consider myself 1P seeing that I'm looking towards others with reads on certain players.

I'm actually the least 1P player that ever existed I feel.

I'm like 13 pages in and I still haven't seen any indication this guy is here to solve the game.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:38 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:37 am I thought Alexa suspected you earlier for your treatment of me.

@alexa What is your Transcend read?

Why are you talking to alexa, you already solved the game. Transcend and I are wolves.

Tfw they were actually both yeeted, d1 and d2 respectively.

My biggest townreads not called illario are the d1 misyeet and the n1 kill.

I cry in V/V.

Transcend wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:25 am still don't tr brad and i has a sad but maybe i'm bad cause people are getting mad

I still can't believe this was the day 1.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:26 am

Transcend wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:20 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:20 am honestly I don't think Alison would fake the dumb tell as wolf

she just said that she would lol

she lies

Mildly villagery to encourage removing Alison from the misyeet pool if the post is serious.

I was talking to TSP, not you.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:27 am basically the read on transcend was he should have known that LC was town if he was town and the fact that he expressed doubt was scummy and if that argument sounds like TMI to you then uh idk it is probably

This sounds more like wtf than scummy. Those types of reads kill paranoid/doubtful villagers all the time.

I wanted to say that's actually towny for alexa in a vacuum if transcend didn't change his alexa read afterward. If you're wolfing, you don't push the villagers who are townreading you. However, if you're truthful about the reasoning used to push on him, that's so horrendous that I'm back to scumreading her for it.

Did anyone else embark on the push with commentary other than placing naked votes? What did they say?

And have you fulfilled your solving quota for the day already? Is that why you aren't solving and just listening to me talk like illario?

...Wait. Why did he put alexa in the towncore after sussing her for bad progression? Maybe he liked the answer... whatever. Either way, if my reads are any good then Transcend was on the money day 1 and was the type of player wolves would want to kill at night, and yet he was misyeeted. He's also apparently an obvious wolf or something? How did that happen?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:55 am I was eating popcorn.

Why does Nanook have a wagon?

Something something wolfy pop in.

Transcend wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:00 am

alexa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:39 pm townreading alison this early when she is known as the best wolf on the syndicate is sus

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:14 am anyways im going to bed

VVV: Alison, Ilario, LimeCoke
VV: Transcend, EnderWiggin
~
everyone else
W: Mac

Transcend is making my points for me. There was some progression in between but it was messy, weird, and I didn't get it at all.

Transcend wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:14 am town: me, ale, alison, ilario, mac, tony

poe: rest

Who pushed on this day 1? This towncore is 100% pure if my reads so far are correct and alexa is town.