Buckets: War of the GOATs [END]

[EnderWiggin]

I just remembered I tilted at Transcend and kinda sussed him towards the end.

I deserve not even dark knighthood.

[Esooa]

Ender do you want a town read

[MacDougall]

also Mac you need to give me props for town reading transcend. I want them

I will give you props for your game if you are town in post cuz you will have easily been the best player lol.

In reality you're probably having the best game regardless of your alignment.

also I hope you realize every time you make a post like this I have to try really hard to read into the wifom of it

are you trying to pocket me by saying I'm good?

would you try and change my reads by saying I'm bad?

u do that all the time

I tell you that you are bad when you are making reads with conviction for bad reasons and/or just trolling. Your logic in this game has been pretty sound and in this mix you have actually been pretty reasonable.

[Lime Coke]

I just remembered I tilted at Transcend and kinda sussed him towards the end.

I deserve not even dark knighthood.

Booooooooooooooooooooo

You're not Esooa

Booooooooooooooooooooo

[Esooa]

also Mac you need to give me props for town reading transcend. I want them

I will give you props for your game if you are town in post cuz you will have easily been the best player lol.

In reality you're probably having the best game regardless of your alignment.

also I hope you realize every time you make a post like this I have to try really hard to read into the wifom of it

are you trying to pocket me by saying I'm good?

would you try and change my reads by saying I'm bad?

u do that all the time

I tell you that you are bad when you are making reads with conviction for bad reasons and/or just trolling. Your logic in this game has been pretty sound and in this mix you have actually been pretty reasonable.

alr well

Relating to the Wiml read I gave SoD when you read it I didn't get the idea you actually looked at Wiml's posts to see what I meant

Do you think what I said is accurate to how Wiml played, or like, what

[MacDougall]

i did answer you actually

[EnderWiggin]

Ender do you want a town read

That depends on why I'm getting townread.

[EnderWiggin]

I just remembered I tilted at Transcend and kinda sussed him towards the end.

I deserve not even dark knighthood.

Booooooooooooooooooooo

You're not Esooa

Booooooooooooooooooooo

And here I thought my Esooa disguise was perfect

[Lime Coke]

Ender do you want a town read

That depends on why I'm getting townread.

Pure

Unadulterated

Blind

Townread.

[EnderWiggin]

LC.

What reads do you have not named Alexa

[Lime Coke]

LC.

What reads do you have not named Alexa

Townread you

Townread Esooa (Second strongest)

Townread Illario

Scumread Mac

[EnderWiggin]

Why do you townread me?

[Esooa]

i did answer you actually

you said it was a good read

Do you think my explanation was good, or do you, personally, remember it that way too?

[Esooa]

Ender do you want a town read

That depends on why I'm getting townread.

randomly remember you wolf read Transcend because you got tilted seemed pretty genuine

Like you thought you town read him then you were like ah wait I got tilted and scum read him

If you were a wolf I imagine your thoughts going into your read on him were more artificial, which would be reflected in your remembrance of it

[Lime Coke]

Why do you townread me?

I literally can't remember why I just remember'd that I townread you and I don't think I'd vote you any time soon.

[Lime Coke]

I gotta start taking notes in these games, especially that are this size or this many posts.

[MacDougall]

i did answer you actually

you said it was a good read

Do you think my explanation was good, or do you, personally, remember it that way too?

I don't really have enough meta on wiml to comment beyond the fact that you read seemed nuanced.

[EnderWiggin]

Ender do you want a town read

That depends on why I'm getting townread.

randomly remember you wolf read Transcend because you got tilted seemed pretty genuine

Like you thought you town read him then you were like ah wait I got tilted and scum read him

If you were a wolf I imagine your thoughts going into your read on him were more artificial, which would be reflected in your remembrance of it

Well, I did townread him.

I just forgot he tilted me later in the day and I flopped on my read.

[Esooa]

let me explain it

[ilario]

meh [VOTE: nanook] aubergine

[Esooa]

I've never seen him AtE as a wolf to my recollection and he's obviously trying not to be toxic

Earlier he made posts which:

came from a town PoV

is AtE like he hasn't done as a wolf (this could be for a few reasons; demotivated previous wolf games due to not wanting to wolf at all, having less time/investment/rather than being mad at wolf reads on him I think he more felt bad for how he played, etc)

and was handled in a towny was too imo (obviously there but attempted to be curtailed)

First point is... okay

Second has potential holes but if we're going off how likely it is to come from a wolf, probably less likely

Third is possibly from a wolf considering he's trying to be not toxic in thread is general but shrug

Also I think Nanook could have a point re:volume

Not actually that Matt has a lot of content

I find a lot of his reads shallow

But I think his posting/WIM is more towny than not considering I don't think he wants to wolf and the playerlist

Especially when being scum read this much

Like in MCM he posted fewer times and also open wolfed EoD

Not enough to confidently town read him but it's at least a consideration

I'm not sure how I feel about Transcend tbh.

Probably going to sleep on it.

I'm a little less certain looking at them a bit

Anyways here I start town reading Transcend for random reasons, mostly just to try it out tbh

[Lime Coke]

Alright well I'm going to sleep. I got a full work day tomorrow so I won't be on that often until like 6 or 7 PM my time in case you're wondering.

Later everyone.

[Lime Coke]

Esooa was right on Transcend.

[Esooa]

Spoiler: show

fwiw I'm actually decently confidently town reading Matt after reading a few past games

Would you mind linking them?

So this is kinda the stuff I'm talking about

He has more of it than I remembered in thread but I typically expect Wiml to ask me about stuff like he does above

Spoiler: show

I'm gonna say that I think with an asterisk that Esooa is town.

for what

I'm gonna say that I think with an asterisk that Esooa is town.

You're right lol.

for what

I already explained lol.

yeah I know I wanted to bait you into outing by writing a paragraph confidently calling me town

I actually asked Wiml his read on me here because I wanted him to commit to calling me town before I counter one of his reads to see how he responds once I do

Spoiler: show

Voting Transcend.

Can't be bothered typing out the full tag I'm busy.

Esooa what were the meta differences you noticed for Transcend to be town? I found his ISO in his town game to be a lot more cohesive and he could actually explain his reads there.

More questions here which is alright. I don't really agree with the conclusion though

Spoiler: show

Esooa's light pushing of alexa is wolfy as well lol.

I'm pretty sure she's just town but I'm not letting myself be wrong on a legacy style post on her.

And this post pinged me a ton when I read it. Maybe cause I was looking to see if Wiml went along with me or not but it felt weird that he randomly calls something I did wolfy at this point

Spoiler: show

Voting Transcend.

Can't be bothered typing out the full tag I'm busy.

Esooa what were the meta differences you noticed for Transcend to be town? I found his ISO in his town game to be a lot more cohesive and he could actually explain his reads there.

because most his reads in his town game were reasonably surface level (not that it's bad though)

meaning it's less relevant he is here

in his wolf game his posts are kinda, disjunct, like in the town game he kinda posts and it seems way less uncomfortable when compared to the way he approaches a lot of stuff as a wolf (also especially votes on him)

rereading his ISO this game I think his progression on LC makes sense, calling the LC post where he says he has no reads wolfy is good for example, and his posts in general containing short reads is again good actually when compared to his over explanation/self awareness as a wolf

I think this stuff is pretty obvious personally. Even if Wiml didn't get it at first I'm surprised that with what I said here he doesn't see it too

wiml not agreeing with me is slightly cause for concern I feel like

Which is why I posted this

Spoiler: show

Voting Transcend.

Can't be bothered typing out the full tag I'm busy.

Esooa what were the meta differences you noticed for Transcend to be town? I found his ISO in his town game to be a lot more cohesive and he could actually explain his reads there.

because most his reads in his town game were reasonably surface level (not that it's bad though)

meaning it's less relevant he is here

in his wolf game his posts are kinda, disjunct, like in the town game he kinda posts and it seems way less uncomfortable when compared to the way he approaches a lot of stuff as a wolf (also especially votes on him)

rereading his ISO this game I think his progression on LC makes sense, calling the LC post where he says he has no reads wolfy is good for example, and his posts in general containing short reads is again good actually when compared to his over explanation/self awareness as a wolf

Thanks. I'll come back to you on this in a moment.

Forgot why I quoted this lol

Spoiler: show

alison what's your lime read right now?

interested to hear what you think, since u seem to be in agreeance with me that he's not out of scumrange yet.

these are posts I think are towny rereading his ISO

the reason I call his wolf game posts disjunct is things like this show up much less

this is kinda true for wolves in general fwiw which is why I'm fine with the small sample size

but he town read Alison and actually is considering her read here. Like it makes sense town him is curious about one of his TRs read. But it's not something people think about as much as a wolf

Honestly this read isn't the kind of read people agree with much and it's something I realized only recently but I think it's extremely >>>>rand to follow up reads/ideas/etc with engagement fitting to your in-thread world view. I don't know how to explain. I still think this was a very valid read though. Just pointing out what was happening irt to Transcend here

Spoiler: show

wiml not agreeing with me is slightly cause for concern I feel like

Ftr one of the reasons I think your town is because I think your meta case is actually pretty bad lol.

I don't really think any of his games have reads that are as poorly formed as this one, at least early on. Mountains climbing doesn't really have any proper early reads at all and I think that indicates that Trams might struggle to fake them like he did here tbh.

Are you really confident in this? I respect your judgement tbh but I'm just not seeing it.

Wiml calls my meta bad but honestly this explanation feels like when I meta read people as a wolf

Spoiler: show

I'm really conscious that I'm arguing here against people wjo I think are town and whose judgement I trust a lot and that's making me feel worse about the Transcend vote even though I disagree with all the reasoning for him being town that I've seen.

This post is just weird. It feels so out of place. Like when I talk about Wiml trying to change my reads, this is what I mean. In the post I quoted before this Wiml tells me a pretty meh reason to wolf read Transcend based on meta. And Wiml is aware that I say him not agreeing with me isn't good. He feels super self conscious, and like this is here to sort of mitigate when I said I dislike him disagreeing with me

Like his disagreement feels artificial, and this feels like he's trying to cover that up. If that makes sense.

Spoiler: show

I actually don't have a single read yet.

eh bad post

Like, she hasn't really done anything that's her town game YET. If Alexa gets going she'll be obvious town.

bad

Like, she hasn't really done anything that's her town game YET. If Alexa gets going she'll be obvious town.

Everything I do is my town game because I’m town

(I also agree I don’t think I’ve done anything AI yet if someone had a correct read on me it would be surprising or a crapshoot from numbers/probability odds)

Yes, and everyone that is townreading you that's not me has TMI.

I will then tunnel those individuals, and then complain about them once they flip town and take 0 blame.

Then proceed to lead town into an L.

ok this is kinda towny

ok i'm caught up

idk who a good vote is

ilario
3
38%
Voters: NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, alexa, Lime Coke

meh?

brad why are you voting ilario

i think ilario/alexa might be tvt and someone on the scum team (ender, lime, nanook) is poking at them

couldn't tell u which

due to my ridiculously high scum flip ratio idek if i've played as town with either ilario or alexa so this would be my first time sorting them in a forum setting lol

i've specced games w/ both of them as scum and they usually make it p deep if not endgame

I've explained 1 thing about her meta, when she's going to certain people (Illario, Esooa to an extent this game) trying to get them to townread her it's typically in her town meta. She works extremely hard on getting townread early and then solves. People have called it LAMIST but that's just what she does.

She'll use her vote multiple times but it's gonna be hard to track with this site. She's been verbally saying her votes though so basically treat it like EM forum games.

There's a few other things. Like, I've found her as town quickly in numerous games. She's not a hard town to find.

while this is probably valid have u ever been tricked by wolf!alexa?

i feel like her games would be v difficult to distinguish because she has extremely high wim as either align

[VOTE: lime coke] aubergine

brad why are you voting ilario

Because Illario does whatever he can to NOT townread me when he and I are town. Even when I'm obvious as fuck town through a WHOLE game, he'll keep me at null and refuse to move me.
This game he started off with a townread on me. That actually caught me off guard and pinged me.

dis post is yucky

Like, she hasn't really done anything that's her town game YET. If Alexa gets going she'll be obvious town.

due to my ridiculously high scum flip ratio idek if i've played as town with either ilario or alexa so this would be my first time sorting them in a forum setting lol

i've specced games w/ both of them as scum and they usually make it p deep if not endgame

I've explained 1 thing about her meta, when she's going to certain people (Illario, Esooa to an extent this game) trying to get them to townread her it's typically in her town meta. She works extremely hard on getting townread early and then solves. People have called it LAMIST but that's just what she does.

She'll use her vote multiple times but it's gonna be hard to track with this site. She's been verbally saying her votes though so basically treat it like EM forum games.

There's a few other things. Like, I've found her as town quickly in numerous games. She's not a hard town to find.

this was a rlly quick transition it almost feels unnatural

like just read over this

it's not bad it's towny

there's only one post relating to his LC read that I disagree with the read

I think LC is town but most the points here are valid

the process of having mixed reads on LC leaning wolf after catch-up>saying he doesn't know who to vote>exploring the wagon on his town read (illario) and disliking LCs play around it into voting him is good>actually going back to find posts to pull what he doesn't like feels like conviction/belief in the read I like

So here I explain the Transcend read a lot more. I think this is pretty obviously towny. Like if you read this, you know I have good reasons to town read Transcend and you know I'm going to push that, if you're Wiml. So, Wiml, as a wolf, realizes here for sure, that he's going to be pushing hard against my read. (This didn't actually end up happening cause I was shot down constantly and just didn't want to shout over everyone, but this is Wiml's mindset)

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

Honestly I'm fine with a Nook wagon as well.

He naked votes someone else and says this. This is Wiml looking for somewhere else to go because he knows I just blocked off his Transcend push

Spoiler: show

I'm probably not budging on the transcend read tbh

I noticed what you said earlier and I think it's a pretty consistent trend throughout his posts.

My issue was that there was no cohesive progression. He was switching between saying that he thought LC was towntelling and then still tunneling him regardless? I really don't think the strength of the reads he expressed actually matched his actions at all and it reads to me more like poor handling of TMI that LC is town and feeling obliged to townread certain posts that LC made than genuine read progression.

I'm trusting your judgement for today though.

This is where I hard hard wolf read Wiml. He says, "My issue was that there was no cohesive progression.," but I just outlined very cohesive progression that he SAW. Saying, "He was switching between saying that he thought LC was towntelling and then still tunneling him regardless?" also is just... not important. It just doesn't feel like he's actually reading what I'm saying and taking it in. "Poor handling of TMI" is also just... so typical for wolves talking about this stuff imo.

Like:

Wiml, as town, sees me post what I did about Transcend, and considers it, but I dunno, I feel like the quote above feels... Like I explained. He feels forced to move off Transcend, and is still here trying to like, fish a Transcend mislynch out of me but knows he can't push against me on it.

Honestly I'm fine with a Nook wagon as well.

nothing to say about my explanation of transcends LC read fmpov?

Yes but it was long lol.

I asked this because I was very specifically waiting to see how Wiml would react to my post. He did answer, but I think it's weird he says "yes but it was long," when.. well it wasn't. It seems pretty simple. I think the reason it took him a while is he was thinking about how to deal with my read.

I also believe Wiml carrying the wolf mindset I described above is fitting as to why his EoD was so awkward irt Transcend. Like he wanted the Transcend lynch, and was trying to push that way when Transcend did weird things I.E. self vote, but he was really conflicted in a way that didn't feel natural

[Esooa]

Basically the way Wiml pushed against me felt like he's more so trying to navigate around me correctly town reading a town who he knows he is incorrectly town reading, much more so than him actually having belief in his read, and I think almost everything he posted around this time, is strongly indicative of that

[Esooa]

Basically the way Wiml pushed against me felt like he's more so trying to navigate around me correctly town reading a town who he knows he is incorrectly town wolf reading, much more so than him actually having belief in his read, and I think almost everything he posted around this time, is strongly indicative of that

[Esooa]

alexa sorry for keeping bothering you lol is that game a good representation of Transcend's wolf range?

i'm pretty sure he was in anti-spew from the start because he was caught early so the entire day was basically antispew (so no, his best wolf games were on EM by a landslide)

but he's arguably been partially in anti-spew here if he's wolf because of how early we pushed on him soooooo i dunno

I think that wolf game is actually a fair bit worse than his ISO here tbh.

alexa sorry for keeping bothering you lol is that game a good representation of Transcend's wolf range?

i'm pretty sure he was in anti-spew from the start because he was caught early so the entire day was basically antispew (so no, his best wolf games were on EM by a landslide)

but he's arguably been partially in anti-spew here if he's wolf because of how early we pushed on him soooooo i dunno

I think that wolf game is actually a fair bit worse than his ISO here tbh.

i agree from looking at it, tbqh, but most of his ISO there was him anti-spewing

I'm not far enough in to say for sure but do any of his reads actually have any sort of progression?

They all seem very anchored up until the point where I'm at, whereas in this game I don't think his hedginess on the LC read is inherently towny but he at least is putting effort into a read that he's already made instead of just ignoring or pushing it.

I think Esooa's Transcend meta makes more sense now there's a wolf game to compare it to where he actually did something.

Probably enough here for me now to say Trans might actually be town?

Anyways I feel like this was all done because Wiml was worried about me lmao

I dunno maybe not, but the fact he read a second game and randomly agrees with what I said in that game but not from the other (when honestly I think they're comparable, or the one he read is even worse maybe)

[Esooa]

I don't actually think Transcend is an outed wolf BTW.

I do think that he flips today in almost every world now and I'm mostly just trying to solve him for vanity reasons but still.

I think this is a really weird thing to say right after he agreed with my Transcend read

[Esooa]

anyways

Wimls making solvy sounding posts

but the solving isn't from a towny perspective

[Esooa]

Wiml still has towny stuff and I'll need to re-read his SoD/his day 2 once he's up but those are my thoughts on him

[EnderWiggin]

Ngl those are some pretty nice points.

And makes me feel a lot better about my bad gut reaction to him nitpicking on my "Towntell" posts on him.

[Esooa]

Ngl those are some pretty nice points.

And makes me feel a lot better about my bad gut reaction to him nitpicking on my "Towntell" posts on him.

Does what I'm trying to say make sense?

[EnderWiggin]

Ngl those are some pretty nice points.

And makes me feel a lot better about my bad gut reaction to him nitpicking on my "Towntell" posts on him.

Does what I'm trying to say make sense?

To me, yes.

Did you read his interactions with me where he accuses of me lying about the "Towntell"?

[Esooa]

Ngl those are some pretty nice points.

And makes me feel a lot better about my bad gut reaction to him nitpicking on my "Towntell" posts on him.

Does what I'm trying to say make sense?

To me, yes.

Did you read his interactions with me where he accuses of me lying about the "Towntell"?

not really

[EnderWiggin]

I'll grab it and spoiler gimme a sec

[EnderWiggin]

Spoiler: show

@EnderWiggin why did you vote wiml

Cause he wasn't towntelling and there were other votes so I wanted to pressure. Also was about to head out for like, six hours idk.

[VOTE: Ender] aubergine

This time it's not a pressure vote lol.

I'm 100% sure Ender's comment about me not towntelling is a lie btw.

I'm 100% sure Ender's comment about me not towntelling is a lie btw.

There is no towntell you have made so far that I am not sure you could replicate as mafia.

That being said I'm not a super good meta-reader so who knows. I might be in whiplash from the Scythe sweep.

But to call it a lie is a little disingenuous. Almost seems agenda-y

I thought you'd realised lol but I knew the secret town tell you had on me was a read formation / effort tell and that's why I abused it so hard in Scythe lol.

anyone who has seen Ender as wolf have any idea of his ranges/differences?

I pretty much outed all of my meta tells on him last game tbh.

..i don't think i was in last game?

You weren't, what I was meaning to say is that I shoved all of his meta tells down people's throats last game and now they're probably soggy.

The fact that you're acting like there was any cohesive meta-read you pulled on me in that game is making me feel very much like you're trying to establish some sort of authority on the subject when you, in reality, have none.

Read further lol.

The meta I used on you in Scythe was actually pretty bad in hindsight I just pushed it hard lol.

I'm 100% sure Ender's comment about me not towntelling is a lie btw.

There is no towntell you have made so far that I am not sure you could replicate as mafia.

That being said I'm not a super good meta-reader so who knows. I might be in whiplash from the Scythe sweep.

But to call it a lie is a little disingenuous. Almost seems agenda-y

I thought you'd realised lol but I knew the secret town tell you had on me was a read formation / effort tell and that's why I abused it so hard in Scythe lol.

You abused the secret meta-read but it wasn't read formation/effort.

Which makes it funnier that you turned it against me without properly working out what it was I was trying to read you on.

(Your town games, or some of them, had a level of "Reads confusion" where your scum games had a level of surety to the reads. Obviously not as ironclad of a read as I thought it was lmao.)

Oh that makes more sense as well lol (even though it's not actually a tell for me tbh). I'd gathered for sure it was to do with reads and the rest I assumed based on the conversations we had in the 2+2 game.

If that's your actual towntell read on me this game then I think that makes more sense lol. But alexa and illario (who was bunnyhunter in Anni) are both easy town reads tbh.

Speaking of illario, if anybody has any doubts about me being able to read him I was so confident on him being town in anni that I called out a fake red peek on him.

I'm 100% sure Ender's comment about me not towntelling is a lie btw.

There is no towntell you have made so far that I am not sure you could replicate as mafia.

That being said I'm not a super good meta-reader so who knows. I might be in whiplash from the Scythe sweep.

But to call it a lie is a little disingenuous. Almost seems agenda-y

I thought you'd realised lol but I knew the secret town tell you had on me was a read formation / effort tell and that's why I abused it so hard in Scythe lol.

You abused the secret meta-read but it wasn't read formation/effort.

Which makes it funnier that you turned it against me without properly working out what it was I was trying to read you on.

(Your town games, or some of them, had a level of "Reads confusion" where your scum games had a level of surety to the reads. Obviously not as ironclad of a read as I thought it was lmao.)

Oh that makes more sense as well lol (even though it's not actually a tell for me tbh). I'd gathered for sure it was to do with reads and the rest I assumed based on the conversations we had in the 2+2 game.

If that's your actual towntell read on me this game then I think that makes more sense lol. But alexa and illario (who was bunnyhunter in Anni) are both easy town reads tbh.

Speaking of illario, if anybody has any doubts about me being able to read him I was so confident on him being town in anni that I called out a fake red peek on him.

Oh I'm absolutely not using it right now. I've gone back to basic reads while discarding anything I think you'd easily replicate.

And sure, I'll allow iliario town. Their interactions have been fine.

What was the towntell I haven't done if you're saying I haven't towntold then? Were you actually just lying about it?

Wiml still a good target. Was misrepresenting me and implying he had good read on me until I called bullshit

You say misrepresenting but that's exactly what you did lol. I've also never implied anything about my read on you that has changed over the course of this game so I'm not sure what you're actually getting at there

Wiml still a good target. Was misrepresenting me and implying he had good read on me until I called bullshit

You say misrepresenting but that's exactly what you did lol. I've also never implied anything about my read on you that has changed over the course of this game so I'm not sure what you're actually getting at there

I used the words "Towntell", and then when you made that out to be a hard tell I instead changed it to town indicative. To ensure everyone understood my intention.

You made it out like I was backing down from "Towntell".

Also I was talking about you implying you had a good meta on me that you'd outed previous game.

Then when I pointed out how it was bad you were like "Yeah I guess I convinced myself it was good."

See how all my statements were correct? Weird like that.

I didn't really buy the first thing but I think regardless of your alignment your reaction gives me enough doubt that I'm mistaken that I'll probably just drop this take tbh.

I said all the meta stuff on you before you came back to the thread though, unless I'm horribly mistaken, and that includes the "retraction". None of it was reactive to anything you said nor did anything really change for me (I said from the start of the game that the meta tells I had on you woukd be useless, it's just that I realised they were probably even more useless later on).

The only defensive post I made towards you is when you suggested I had a towntell that I knew was made up lol.

Spoiler: show

@EnderWiggin why did you vote wiml

Cause he wasn't towntelling and there were other votes so I wanted to pressure. Also was about to head out for like, six hours idk.

[VOTE: Ender] aubergine

This time it's not a pressure vote lol.

I'm 100% sure Ender's comment about me not towntelling is a lie btw.

Well not 100% but I know what the tell is lol.

I'm 100% sure Ender's comment about me not towntelling is a lie btw.

There is no towntell you have made so far that I am not sure you could replicate as mafia.

That being said I'm not a super good meta-reader so who knows. I might be in whiplash from the Scythe sweep.

But to call it a lie is a little disingenuous. Almost seems agenda-y

I thought you'd realised lol but I knew the secret town tell you had on me was a read formation / effort tell and that's why I abused it so hard in Scythe lol.

I thought you'd realised lol but I knew the secret town tell you had on me was a read formation / effort tell and that's why I abused it so hard in Scythe lol.

You abused the secret meta-read but it wasn't read formation/effort.

Which makes it funnier that you turned it against me without properly working out what it was I was trying to read you on.

(Your town games, or some of them, had a level of "Reads confusion" where your scum games had a level of surety to the reads. Obviously not as ironclad of a read as I thought it was lmao.)

Oh that makes more sense as well lol (even though it's not actually a tell for me tbh). I'd gathered for sure it was to do with reads and the rest I assumed based on the conversations we had in the 2+2 game.

If that's your actual towntell read on me this game then I think that makes more sense lol. But alexa and illario (who was bunnyhunter in Anni) are both easy town reads tbh.

Speaking of illario, if anybody has any doubts about me being able to read him I was so confident on him being town in anni that I called out a fake red peek on him.

Oh I'm absolutely not using it right now. I've gone back to basic reads while discarding anything I think you'd easily replicate.

And sure, I'll allow iliario town. Their interactions have been fine.

What was the towntell I haven't done if you're saying I haven't towntold then? Were you actually just lying about it?

I guess it all was about that.

Hmm.

I'm dropping the read now but to explain my thought process some more:

I knew that I had burned your secret towntell on me last game but I didn't think you knew I was aware of that. So when I saw you pushing a towntell on me this game that was fmpov both something I had proved was inaccurate to you in Scythe as well as not actually applicable in this game I read that as you getting one last use out of your now useless towntell (that you knew I was aware of but not what the tell actually was) to make an excuse to push me for no good reason which obviously would make you always a wolf.

Which is probably not the case from your reactions and I'm backing off that read tbh.

Feels really disingenuous and I didn't hard scumread him for it but I didn't like it (As per the follow ups and snark on it.)

I was wondering if it's tunnelvision on my part.

[ilario]

Ngl those are some pretty nice points.

And makes me feel a lot better about my bad gut reaction to him nitpicking on my "Towntell" posts on him.

Does what I'm trying to say make sense?

yes

but i had to read it a couple times

[Esooa]

give me a bit

[Esooa]

Ngl those are some pretty nice points.

And makes me feel a lot better about my bad gut reaction to him nitpicking on my "Towntell" posts on him.

Does what I'm trying to say make sense?

yes

but i had to read it a couple times

that's why I didn't want to explain it all day 1 lol

[ilario]

i noticed something interesting in ur case that im chasing up, give me a few minutes

[ilario]

Spoiler: show

fwiw I'm actually decently confidently town reading Matt after reading a few past games

Would you mind linking them?

So this is kinda the stuff I'm talking about

He has more of it than I remembered in thread but I typically expect Wiml to ask me about stuff like he does above

Spoiler: show

I'm gonna say that I think with an asterisk that Esooa is town.

for what

I'm gonna say that I think with an asterisk that Esooa is town.

You're right lol.

for what

I already explained lol.

yeah I know I wanted to bait you into outing by writing a paragraph confidently calling me town

I actually asked Wiml his read on me here because I wanted him to commit to calling me town before I counter one of his reads to see how he responds once I do

Spoiler: show

Voting Transcend.

Can't be bothered typing out the full tag I'm busy.

Esooa what were the meta differences you noticed for Transcend to be town? I found his ISO in his town game to be a lot more cohesive and he could actually explain his reads there.

More questions here which is alright. I don't really agree with the conclusion though

Spoiler: show

Esooa's light pushing of alexa is wolfy as well lol.

I'm pretty sure she's just town but I'm not letting myself be wrong on a legacy style post on her.

And this post pinged me a ton when I read it. Maybe cause I was looking to see if Wiml went along with me or not but it felt weird that he randomly calls something I did wolfy at this point

Spoiler: show

Voting Transcend.

Can't be bothered typing out the full tag I'm busy.

Esooa what were the meta differences you noticed for Transcend to be town? I found his ISO in his town game to be a lot more cohesive and he could actually explain his reads there.

because most his reads in his town game were reasonably surface level (not that it's bad though)

meaning it's less relevant he is here

in his wolf game his posts are kinda, disjunct, like in the town game he kinda posts and it seems way less uncomfortable when compared to the way he approaches a lot of stuff as a wolf (also especially votes on him)

rereading his ISO this game I think his progression on LC makes sense, calling the LC post where he says he has no reads wolfy is good for example, and his posts in general containing short reads is again good actually when compared to his over explanation/self awareness as a wolf

I think this stuff is pretty obvious personally. Even if Wiml didn't get it at first I'm surprised that with what I said here he doesn't see it too

wiml not agreeing with me is slightly cause for concern I feel like

Which is why I posted this

Spoiler: show

Voting Transcend.

Can't be bothered typing out the full tag I'm busy.

Esooa what were the meta differences you noticed for Transcend to be town? I found his ISO in his town game to be a lot more cohesive and he could actually explain his reads there.

because most his reads in his town game were reasonably surface level (not that it's bad though)

meaning it's less relevant he is here

in his wolf game his posts are kinda, disjunct, like in the town game he kinda posts and it seems way less uncomfortable when compared to the way he approaches a lot of stuff as a wolf (also especially votes on him)

rereading his ISO this game I think his progression on LC makes sense, calling the LC post where he says he has no reads wolfy is good for example, and his posts in general containing short reads is again good actually when compared to his over explanation/self awareness as a wolf

Thanks. I'll come back to you on this in a moment.

Forgot why I quoted this lol

Spoiler: show

alison what's your lime read right now?

interested to hear what you think, since u seem to be in agreeance with me that he's not out of scumrange yet.

these are posts I think are towny rereading his ISO

the reason I call his wolf game posts disjunct is things like this show up much less

this is kinda true for wolves in general fwiw which is why I'm fine with the small sample size

but he town read Alison and actually is considering her read here. Like it makes sense town him is curious about one of his TRs read. But it's not something people think about as much as a wolf

Honestly this read isn't the kind of read people agree with much and it's something I realized only recently but I think it's extremely >>>>rand to follow up reads/ideas/etc with engagement fitting to your in-thread world view. I don't know how to explain. I still think this was a very valid read though. Just pointing out what was happening irt to Transcend here

Spoiler: show

wiml not agreeing with me is slightly cause for concern I feel like

Ftr one of the reasons I think your town is because I think your meta case is actually pretty bad lol.

I don't really think any of his games have reads that are as poorly formed as this one, at least early on. Mountains climbing doesn't really have any proper early reads at all and I think that indicates that Trams might struggle to fake them like he did here tbh.

Are you really confident in this? I respect your judgement tbh but I'm just not seeing it.

Wiml calls my meta bad but honestly this explanation feels like when I meta read people as a wolf

Spoiler: show

I'm really conscious that I'm arguing here against people wjo I think are town and whose judgement I trust a lot and that's making me feel worse about the Transcend vote even though I disagree with all the reasoning for him being town that I've seen.

This post is just weird. It feels so out of place. Like when I talk about Wiml trying to change my reads, this is what I mean. In the post I quoted before this Wiml tells me a pretty meh reason to wolf read Transcend based on meta. And Wiml is aware that I say him not agreeing with me isn't good. He feels super self conscious, and like this is here to sort of mitigate when I said I dislike him disagreeing with me

Like his disagreement feels artificial, and this feels like he's trying to cover that up. If that makes sense.

Spoiler: show

I actually don't have a single read yet.

eh bad post

Like, she hasn't really done anything that's her town game YET. If Alexa gets going she'll be obvious town.

bad

Like, she hasn't really done anything that's her town game YET. If Alexa gets going she'll be obvious town.

Everything I do is my town game because I’m town

(I also agree I don’t think I’ve done anything AI yet if someone had a correct read on me it would be surprising or a crapshoot from numbers/probability odds)

Yes, and everyone that is townreading you that's not me has TMI.

I will then tunnel those individuals, and then complain about them once they flip town and take 0 blame.

Then proceed to lead town into an L.

ok this is kinda towny

ok i'm caught up

idk who a good vote is

ilario
3
38%
Voters: NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, alexa, Lime Coke

meh?

brad why are you voting ilario

i think ilario/alexa might be tvt and someone on the scum team (ender, lime, nanook) is poking at them

couldn't tell u which

due to my ridiculously high scum flip ratio idek if i've played as town with either ilario or alexa so this would be my first time sorting them in a forum setting lol

i've specced games w/ both of them as scum and they usually make it p deep if not endgame

I've explained 1 thing about her meta, when she's going to certain people (Illario, Esooa to an extent this game) trying to get them to townread her it's typically in her town meta. She works extremely hard on getting townread early and then solves. People have called it LAMIST but that's just what she does.

She'll use her vote multiple times but it's gonna be hard to track with this site. She's been verbally saying her votes though so basically treat it like EM forum games.

There's a few other things. Like, I've found her as town quickly in numerous games. She's not a hard town to find.

while this is probably valid have u ever been tricked by wolf!alexa?

i feel like her games would be v difficult to distinguish because she has extremely high wim as either align

[VOTE: lime coke] aubergine

brad why are you voting ilario

Because Illario does whatever he can to NOT townread me when he and I are town. Even when I'm obvious as fuck town through a WHOLE game, he'll keep me at null and refuse to move me.
This game he started off with a townread on me. That actually caught me off guard and pinged me.

dis post is yucky

Like, she hasn't really done anything that's her town game YET. If Alexa gets going she'll be obvious town.

due to my ridiculously high scum flip ratio idek if i've played as town with either ilario or alexa so this would be my first time sorting them in a forum setting lol

i've specced games w/ both of them as scum and they usually make it p deep if not endgame

I've explained 1 thing about her meta, when she's going to certain people (Illario, Esooa to an extent this game) trying to get them to townread her it's typically in her town meta. She works extremely hard on getting townread early and then solves. People have called it LAMIST but that's just what she does.

She'll use her vote multiple times but it's gonna be hard to track with this site. She's been verbally saying her votes though so basically treat it like EM forum games.

There's a few other things. Like, I've found her as town quickly in numerous games. She's not a hard town to find.

this was a rlly quick transition it almost feels unnatural

like just read over this

it's not bad it's towny

there's only one post relating to his LC read that I disagree with the read

I think LC is town but most the points here are valid

the process of having mixed reads on LC leaning wolf after catch-up>saying he doesn't know who to vote>exploring the wagon on his town read (illario) and disliking LCs play around it into voting him is good>actually going back to find posts to pull what he doesn't like feels like conviction/belief in the read I like

So here I explain the Transcend read a lot more. I think this is pretty obviously towny. Like if you read this, you know I have good reasons to town read Transcend and you know I'm going to push that, if you're Wiml. So, Wiml, as a wolf, realizes here for sure, that he's going to be pushing hard against my read. (This didn't actually end up happening cause I was shot down constantly and just didn't want to shout over everyone, but this is Wiml's mindset)

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

Honestly I'm fine with a Nook wagon as well.

He naked votes someone else and says this. This is Wiml looking for somewhere else to go because he knows I just blocked off his Transcend push

Spoiler: show

I'm probably not budging on the transcend read tbh

I noticed what you said earlier and I think it's a pretty consistent trend throughout his posts.

My issue was that there was no cohesive progression. He was switching between saying that he thought LC was towntelling and then still tunneling him regardless? I really don't think the strength of the reads he expressed actually matched his actions at all and it reads to me more like poor handling of TMI that LC is town and feeling obliged to townread certain posts that LC made than genuine read progression.

I'm trusting your judgement for today though.

This is where I hard hard wolf read Wiml. He says, "My issue was that there was no cohesive progression.," but I just outlined very cohesive progression that he SAW. Saying, "He was switching between saying that he thought LC was towntelling and then still tunneling him regardless?" also is just... not important. It just doesn't feel like he's actually reading what I'm saying and taking it in. "Poor handling of TMI" is also just... so typical for wolves talking about this stuff imo.

Like:

Wiml, as town, sees me post what I did about Transcend, and considers it, but I dunno, I feel like the quote above feels... Like I explained. He feels forced to move off Transcend, and is still here trying to like, fish a Transcend mislynch out of me but knows he can't push against me on it.

Honestly I'm fine with a Nook wagon as well.

nothing to say about my explanation of transcends LC read fmpov?

Yes but it was long lol.

I asked this because I was very specifically waiting to see how Wiml would react to my post. He did answer, but I think it's weird he says "yes but it was long," when.. well it wasn't. It seems pretty simple. I think the reason it took him a while is he was thinking about how to deal with my read.

I also believe Wiml carrying the wolf mindset I described above is fitting as to why his EoD was so awkward irt Transcend. Like he wanted the Transcend lynch, and was trying to push that way when Transcend did weird things I.E. self vote, but he was really conflicted in a way that didn't feel natural

theres a part in ur case, after u convince him trans is town and then wiml then proceeds to vote mac. the next line u quote is interesting, where he says hes willing to vote nanook. it felt really out of place so i went to control F every in wimls iso to see where he talks about nanook or if he interacts with him

[EnderWiggin]

theres a part in ur case, after u convince him trans is town and then wiml then proceeds to vote mac. the next line u quote is interesting, where he says hes willing to vote nanook. it felt really out of place so i went to control F every in wimls iso to see where he talks about nanook or if he interacts with him

And what'd you find?

[ilario]

@alexa what's your read on Nanook atm?

this is literally the only time i could find in his 9 pages iso where there was a result for searching nanook. there is almost no build-up to wiml being willing to vote nanook, or him showing any real concern to try and solve nanook or any strong interactions between the two, and it almost seems like he tacked it on

[ilario]

@alexa what's your read on Nanook atm?

this is literally the only time i could find in his 9 pages iso where there was a result for searching nanook. there is almost no build-up to wiml being willing to vote nanook, or him showing any real concern to try and solve nanook or any strong interactions between the two, and it almost seems like he tacked it on

when i say tacked it on, im referring to him being willing to vote nanook in eod despite there being no traction on a nanook yeet at the time

[ilario]

It just feels like one of those moments were scum feel compelled to mention their partners name just to show that they are thinking about them

Obviously, this only applies in a scum!Wiml world

[Esooa]

I think the Wiml stuff isn't too scummy, he drops it once it's explained. The worst part about it is just that he kinda jumps the gun on scum reading you for it. I'm overall kinda eh at the interactions though I can see what you mean

[Esooa]

I think the Wiml stuff isn't too scummy, he drops it once it's explained. The worst part about it is just that he kinda jumps the gun on scum reading you for it. I'm overall kinda eh at the interactions though I can see what you mean

re what ender quoted

[EnderWiggin]

Hmm.

Well Esooa has already cased Wiml pretty well.

To avoid the thread becoming tunnelly I'll try and re-check over other people once I'm home.

[Esooa]

so what's up

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

i think im comfortable to chop in my original poe

[MAC, Nanook, TSP, Ender]

Honestly think you're townreading at least one wolf here.

why do you think so

TSP town meta. I know I'm town. Nanook/Mac is almost never w/w.

Decent chances one of them is but I don't see Mac making the daystart sacrifice play with both w in POE. Doesn't happen.

your TSP town meta thing seems pretty weak to me

Alright.

What's your TSP read and why?

wolf

people have been meta clearing him for bad reasons

and 9/10 times in my experience that's a wolf

and based on my experience playing/speccing with him hes been very different this game

Presumably those games were largely on mu