Cartomancy [Game Over]

[Seanzie]

seanzie can you talk to me about your read on me and dennis and kate?

One of your posts really reminded me of when you pushed me in that one game you pushed me over. KotH maybe it was?

was it when i silently voted u

No, it was this one:

i'm not fully caught up but i'm getting pinged by a lot of the posts from creature that i'm seeing

i just played with him in da bois invitiational where we were T/T, and one thing i noticed about his game is that he was super hedgy and super non-commital and consistently projected a mindset where he was scared about being wrong. some quotes from him on d1 in that game:

I'm giving time for my reads to mature.

I am prob not giving anyone a townread for now until I am fairly sure about it. So don't expect anything from me other than pushing whoever is being wolfy.

I dunno where to go. I suspect spf and ladd the most but I'm also afraid of lynching them and them being town.

neopest I guess is playing her town game? (although I feel like she may have figured it out as wolf and can emulate it)

by contrast, creature is picking up reads in this game much more confidently, and he is pushing on ppl fairly aggressively and seems to have no hesitance about calling them wolfy:

Alright Seanzie looks good page 1

I liked Neon's posts tbh.

I guess the players I actually townread are Baudib1, Neon and Seanzie. Maybe lucy too but need more from her.

Alison
DrWilgy
Kate
RondoDimBuckle
sig
tutuu

should contain wolves

Somebody do something to make me feel something.

I'm listening to Easy to Tame by Kim Mitchell, and got Rich Gurl by Hall & Oates qued up next.



Get hyped.



What's your take on Wilgy?

lol I think DrWilgy had a wolf list that feels like it's 0/3 so he can go

i think the last post in particular isn't really a post that my mental model of creature as town would make. saying "X player has an inaccurate readslist, so he can go" feels like a bizarre amount of confidence from a player who is usually very hedgy and very worried about having an incorrect view of the game

maybe im reading too much into the meta stuff but yeah idk, i just feel like creature might be playing from a position of TMI and that he is forming a worldview too easily compared to what i just saw from him in a game like 2 weeks ago

[tutuu]

I did. I read his ISO carefully.

I'll ask again. Where is this happening? Please point out specific instances.

This is not a serious post. Do you believe that Jack believes we should yeet him D1 every game in order to determine his alignment? Do you believe that he really thinks he should be considered obvtown?

I mean, in theory, you should try to yeet me every D1 to immediately determine my alignment.

In practice, I'm obviously town so what are you doing?

This is a nonsensical post with no reasoning or previous post supporting any of these conclusions.

Also, just assume that everything happens for a reason, including rands.

Ergo, you can townread Seanzie, me, Creature, Falcon, Porscha and you can scumread Alison, Wilgy.

This is another useless post that says nothing. Yes, we can conclude that Roxy-Alison is one of three possible groupings. This is lolcatting,

well, since we can all agree that Alison and Roxy are either w/w, v/w or v/v, we should infoyeet Alison.

You know, I'll admit that those posts are a very slight bit trolly. Jack has 42 posts though, and those are not representative of the whole. Jack has been one of the loudest Alison critics, and I think Jack's posts there look good. Do you find those RVS or trolly? I don't.

I don't see where Jack was suspected and doubled-down on being trolly. Aside from Alison saying "Jack is outed" who is suspecting Jack (there could be people but I don't remember), and where was their response to this pressure that you're so concerned with?

If you think Jack's ISO is all troll posts, you're skipping posts. One could argue that Jack is only focusing serious attention on Alison, and that would make sense to me, but Jack is more AI content posts than I do likely.

Also, the "previous posts" are actually there - just not in this game. Jack fancies himself "unyeetable" as town, this is a trope that has existed as long as I've known Jack.

Give me a summary on Jack’s worldview other than he thinks Alison has gross posts.

I literally just told you that The argument that "Jack is only focusing serous attention Alison" makes sense to me, so we won't make progress in our conversation by hashing out points we agree on.

What I disagree with you about is your claim that Jack was only trolling (you now seem to concede that Jack did have some content), and that " When he unexpectedly took heat for this he just rolled with it to try to deflect." I am still waiting to see where this happened, because I did not get this feeling at all, and it was the main issue I had with your post - this is a very specific thing you're claiming, and I don't see it and I am waiting on you to prove to me that you DID see something that you interpreted in that way.

I don’t agree that he actually has any non-trolling content other than perhaps his comment that Alison and I are not w/w. I don’t think any of his posts about Alison are genuine either. Basically I’m just seeing his entire gameplay as spouting nonsense nonstop.

to be fair iono if iss just me but if someone came at my wife being like "girl u toast, u mafia, u done for, u dead, get outta here. ez af hehe" i aint letting that shit fly hell nah. thats my wife we talkin about. aint noone messing with her

[MacDougall]

I'm listening to Easy to Tame by Kim Mitchell, and got Rich Gurl by Hall & Oates qued up next.



Get hyped.



What's your take on Wilgy?

lol I think DrWilgy had a wolf list that feels like it's 0/3 so he can go

Yeah, but it's D1...weird reason to SR him IMO

The same can be said to literally any wolfread rn. Gotta start somewhere.

No, that's not true. Lots of legit reasons to SR a player can & do emerge D1, but to SR a player just cuz you feel they have 0 wolves in a list of 3 is utter crap

Once again, no it isn’t. Pushing wrong world views is exactly what scum do.

@MacDougall

Baudib wasn't saying Wilgy had a wrong worldview he was managing the reads quality of the player he replied to. He made no comment on Wilgy.

[robyn]

i am oracle, are you CCing? @RondoDimBuckle

hardclaim your position

[Baudib1]

I did. I read his ISO carefully.

I'll ask again. Where is this happening? Please point out specific instances.

This is not a serious post. Do you believe that Jack believes we should yeet him D1 every game in order to determine his alignment? Do you believe that he really thinks he should be considered obvtown?

I mean, in theory, you should try to yeet me every D1 to immediately determine my alignment.

In practice, I'm obviously town so what are you doing?

This is a nonsensical post with no reasoning or previous post supporting any of these conclusions.

Also, just assume that everything happens for a reason, including rands.

Ergo, you can townread Seanzie, me, Creature, Falcon, Porscha and you can scumread Alison, Wilgy.

This is another useless post that says nothing. Yes, we can conclude that Roxy-Alison is one of three possible groupings. This is lolcatting,

well, since we can all agree that Alison and Roxy are either w/w, v/w or v/v, we should infoyeet Alison.

You know, I'll admit that those posts are a very slight bit trolly. Jack has 42 posts though, and those are not representative of the whole. Jack has been one of the loudest Alison critics, and I think Jack's posts there look good. Do you find those RVS or trolly? I don't.

I don't see where Jack was suspected and doubled-down on being trolly. Aside from Alison saying "Jack is outed" who is suspecting Jack (there could be people but I don't remember), and where was their response to this pressure that you're so concerned with?

If you think Jack's ISO is all troll posts, you're skipping posts. One could argue that Jack is only focusing serious attention on Alison, and that would make sense to me, but Jack is more AI content posts than I do likely.

Also, the "previous posts" are actually there - just not in this game. Jack fancies himself "unyeetable" as town, this is a trope that has existed as long as I've known Jack.

Give me a summary on Jack’s worldview other than he thinks Alison has gross posts.

I literally just told you that The argument that "Jack is only focusing serous attention Alison" makes sense to me, so we won't make progress in our conversation by hashing out points we agree on.

What I disagree with you about is your claim that Jack was only trolling (you now seem to concede that Jack did have some content), and that " When he unexpectedly took heat for this he just rolled with it to try to deflect." I am still waiting to see where this happened, because I did not get this feeling at all, and it was the main issue I had with your post - this is a very specific thing you're claiming, and I don't see it and I am waiting on you to prove to me that you DID see something that you interpreted in that way.

I don’t agree that he actually has any non-trolling content other than perhaps his comment that Alison and I are not w/w. I don’t think any of his posts about Alison are genuine either. Basically I’m just seeing his entire gameplay as spouting nonsense nonstop.

As someone who was voting Kate via sheep, I agree that Creature’s hop on felt pretty wolfy atm, but I don’t think it means anything. Mindmeld +1.2 Villa points for Mac

[Baudib1]

I quoted the wrong post derp that should have been in response to Mac^^^

[MacDougall]

Alison/Mac/Bau woofie woofers

Neon is pocketing me, and I kinda like it.




It's not nearly as bright as you might expect

I think this is mafia Falcon.

*copy/paste one of the 17 posts I've made in previous games about why yeeting Falcon early in a game is a bad idea*

Even if you think this, I'd recommend spending your attention elsewhere for now.

I would say the same thing about Alison. Why is eliminating Falcon early worse than Alison without factoring alignment?

[Baudib1]

Clearing not seeing eye to eye with Seanzie but I don’t think he’s arguing in bad faith. I might even make him my top town atp.

[Seanzie]

I did. I read his ISO carefully.

I'll ask again. Where is this happening? Please point out specific instances.

This is not a serious post. Do you believe that Jack believes we should yeet him D1 every game in order to determine his alignment? Do you believe that he really thinks he should be considered obvtown?

I mean, in theory, you should try to yeet me every D1 to immediately determine my alignment.

In practice, I'm obviously town so what are you doing?

This is a nonsensical post with no reasoning or previous post supporting any of these conclusions.

Also, just assume that everything happens for a reason, including rands.

Ergo, you can townread Seanzie, me, Creature, Falcon, Porscha and you can scumread Alison, Wilgy.

This is another useless post that says nothing. Yes, we can conclude that Roxy-Alison is one of three possible groupings. This is lolcatting,

well, since we can all agree that Alison and Roxy are either w/w, v/w or v/v, we should infoyeet Alison.

You know, I'll admit that those posts are a very slight bit trolly. Jack has 42 posts though, and those are not representative of the whole. Jack has been one of the loudest Alison critics, and I think Jack's posts there look good. Do you find those RVS or trolly? I don't.

I don't see where Jack was suspected and doubled-down on being trolly. Aside from Alison saying "Jack is outed" who is suspecting Jack (there could be people but I don't remember), and where was their response to this pressure that you're so concerned with?

If you think Jack's ISO is all troll posts, you're skipping posts. One could argue that Jack is only focusing serious attention on Alison, and that would make sense to me, but Jack is more AI content posts than I do likely.

Also, the "previous posts" are actually there - just not in this game. Jack fancies himself "unyeetable" as town, this is a trope that has existed as long as I've known Jack.

Give me a summary on Jack’s worldview other than he thinks Alison has gross posts.

I literally just told you that The argument that "Jack is only focusing serous attention Alison" makes sense to me, so we won't make progress in our conversation by hashing out points we agree on.

What I disagree with you about is your claim that Jack was only trolling (you now seem to concede that Jack did have some content), and that " When he unexpectedly took heat for this he just rolled with it to try to deflect." I am still waiting to see where this happened, because I did not get this feeling at all, and it was the main issue I had with your post - this is a very specific thing you're claiming, and I don't see it and I am waiting on you to prove to me that you DID see something that you interpreted in that way.

I don’t agree that he actually has any non-trolling content other than perhaps his comment that Alison and I are not w/w. I don’t think any of his posts about Alison are genuine either. Basically I’m just seeing his entire gameplay as spouting nonsense nonstop.

Can you please address the specific thing you said though?

Where did you see Jack get heat from trolling, and where did Jack double down? This was the initial thing that I found weird about your post, and I've asked you directly about this multiple times and I don't think you've addressed it.

Can you point to who was giving Jack heat for this? The only thing I remember is Alison saying "Jack is outed", which isn't much, and I did not see how anything Jack did was particularly reactionary to this.

-----------------------------------

Right now I think Baudib is mafia, and this post is a smoking gun:

The reason Jack is mafia is because, even given he was in RVS mode later than everyone else, he decided to troll the game with every single post. When he unexpectedly took heat for this he just rolled with it to try to deflect. This is a very common mafia technique and we should lunch him.

If you are not voting Jack or if you are voting with Jack you should feel less than stellar about yourself.

I don't think it was made in earnest, and I don't think Baudib actually thought these things. I have gotten no indication that Baudib was actually trying to sort Jack, and instead conversing with Baudib, it feels more like Baudib just thought Jack would be an easy push rather than Baudib thought Jack was mafia.

[Baudib1]

Seanzie, there’s no actual point in the game where Jack moves out of troll mode and into srs mode, he came in late, said a lot of nonsense, took heat from Alison, I voted him, and then he peaced out. That’s his whole game.

[Dennis]

Dennis I just got a feeling about. I also would like to pressure them to see how they react.

Have at it

[Seanzie]

Alison/Mac/Bau woofie woofers

Neon is pocketing me, and I kinda like it.




It's not nearly as bright as you might expect

I think this is mafia Falcon.

*copy/paste one of the 17 posts I've made in previous games about why yeeting Falcon early in a game is a bad idea*

Even if you think this, I'd recommend spending your attention elsewhere for now.

I would say the same thing about Alison. Why is eliminating Falcon early worse than Alison without factoring alignment?

I don't really think we should elim Alison either, but if I did have to argue this, I'd say that even though Alison has recently been an often early yeet, that hasn't always been the case, and I think there are plenty of situations where wolf!Alison could go deep and endgame. Wolf!Falcon is not as good deep and will not endgame nearly as well as wolf!Alison.

[MacDougall]

Alison (she/her) - Seems ok to me. I think a lot of her suspicion is based on horseshit and some of it is very opportunistic.

Baudib1 (he/him) - Is blatantly town. Voters on Baudib are wolves or need to get good.

Bereft (he/him) - Dropped off and is attracting zero attention = mild sus.

Creature (he/him) - Kinda sus.

Dennis (he/him) - Seems like an overwhelmed town. His takes feel sincere.

DrWilgy (he/him) - Not buying a thing he says.

falcon45ca (he/him) - Falcon is either mafia or a town who is not reading the game properly and still trying to influence the game in spite of it.

fingersplints (she/her) - Slank wolf prospect. Entry bad.

Jackofhearts2005 (he/him) - Probably town cuz he's making me cringe all over the place and seems to have some sanctimony with his Alison sus.

Kate (she/her) - My current theory is town and that's why Alison is copping heat (wolves with TMI are defending her).

lucy (she/her) - Probably town Oracle?

MacDougall (he/him) - Lock wolf.

Neon (she/her) - Up and down. I scumread them earlier for just being ... guarded. Then Neon sorta made some reads that made me feel like she lacked tmi. But then when I look at opportunism as a scumtell Neon is suspect number 1.

Porscha (she/her) - Kinda not sure. Dropped off a fair bit and hasn't exactly been in their town meta.

RondoDimBuckle (any/Rondo) - Genuinely don't know.

Roxy (she/her) - I don't think Roxy is one of the mafia if my Kate town theory is correct. Roxy comes across like a town that Alison is kind of toying with out of principle.

Seanzie (he/him or they/them) - I think he's town just on wim and effort. His posts haven't really vibed much.

sig (he/him) - Lightly townreading Sig. Just sincere posts.

staypositivefriend (she/her) - Townreading on tone and feeling entirely. The game feels easier to solve and more rational when SPF is posting.

tutuu (any) - Wildcard. I don't know.

[RondoDimBuckle]

i am oracle, are you CCing? @RondoDimBuckle

hardclaim your position

Its ok I town read you anyway

[Baudib1]

I don't really think we should elim Alison either, but if I did have to argue this, I'd say that even though Alison has recently been an often early yeet, that hasn't always been the case, and I think there are plenty of situations where wolf!Alison could go deep and endgame. Wolf!Falcon is not as good deep and will not endgame nearly as well as wolf!Alison.

If we were to agree they were both exactly rand I’d keep Alison over Falcon easily because she’s taking hard aggro stances that are forcing NAI responses from the thread.

[MacDougall]

Alison/Mac/Bau woofie woofers

Neon is pocketing me, and I kinda like it.




It's not nearly as bright as you might expect

I think this is mafia Falcon.

*copy/paste one of the 17 posts I've made in previous games about why yeeting Falcon early in a game is a bad idea*

Even if you think this, I'd recommend spending your attention elsewhere for now.

I would say the same thing about Alison. Why is eliminating Falcon early worse than Alison without factoring alignment?

I don't really think we should elim Alison either, but if I did have to argue this, I'd say that even though Alison has recently been an often early yeet, that hasn't always been the case, and I think there are plenty of situations where wolf!Alison could go deep and endgame. Wolf!Falcon is not as good deep and will not endgame nearly as well as wolf!Alison.

I don't think this is true at all tbh. Falcon's mafia winrate is insanely high and he has a tendency to skate by on not much whereas mafia Alison that gets through day 1 never endgames.

[robyn]

i am oracle, are you CCing? @RondoDimBuckle

hardclaim your position

Its ok I town read you anyway

If you don't unclaim i am taking that as a wolf claim

[RondoDimBuckle]

Alison (she/her) - Seems ok to me. I think a lot of her suspicion is based on horseshit and some of it is very opportunistic.

Baudib1 (he/him) - Is blatantly town. Voters on Baudib are wolves or need to get good.

Bereft (he/him) - Dropped off and is attracting zero attention = mild sus.

Creature (he/him) - Kinda sus.

Dennis (he/him) - Seems like an overwhelmed town. His takes feel sincere.

DrWilgy (he/him) - Not buying a thing he says.

falcon45ca (he/him) - Falcon is either mafia or a town who is not reading the game properly and still trying to influence the game in spite of it.

fingersplints (she/her) - Slank wolf prospect. Entry bad.

Jackofhearts2005 (he/him) - Probably town cuz he's making me cringe all over the place and seems to have some sanctimony with his Alison sus.

Kate (she/her) - My current theory is town and that's why Alison is copping heat (wolves with TMI are defending her).

lucy (she/her) - Probably town Oracle?

MacDougall (he/him) - Lock wolf.

Neon (she/her) - Up and down. I scumread them earlier for just being ... guarded. Then Neon sorta made some reads that made me feel like she lacked tmi. But then when I look at opportunism as a scumtell Neon is suspect number 1.

Porscha (she/her) - Kinda not sure. Dropped off a fair bit and hasn't exactly been in their town meta.

RondoDimBuckle (any/Rondo) - Genuinely don't know.

Roxy (she/her) - I don't think Roxy is one of the mafia if my Kate town theory is correct. Roxy comes across like a town that Alison is kind of toying with out of principle.

Seanzie (he/him or they/them) - I think he's town just on wim and effort. His posts haven't really vibed much.

sig (he/him) - Lightly townreading Sig. Just sincere posts.

staypositivefriend (she/her) - Townreading on tone and feeling entirely. The game feels easier to solve and more rational when SPF is posting.

tutuu (any) - Wildcard. I don't know.

Gun to head?

[MacDougall]

You town Tutuu mafia.

[Seanzie]

I did. I read his ISO carefully.

I'll ask again. Where is this happening? Please point out specific instances.

This is not a serious post. Do you believe that Jack believes we should yeet him D1 every game in order to determine his alignment? Do you believe that he really thinks he should be considered obvtown?

I mean, in theory, you should try to yeet me every D1 to immediately determine my alignment.

In practice, I'm obviously town so what are you doing?

This is a nonsensical post with no reasoning or previous post supporting any of these conclusions.

Also, just assume that everything happens for a reason, including rands.

Ergo, you can townread Seanzie, me, Creature, Falcon, Porscha and you can scumread Alison, Wilgy.

This is another useless post that says nothing. Yes, we can conclude that Roxy-Alison is one of three possible groupings. This is lolcatting,

well, since we can all agree that Alison and Roxy are either w/w, v/w or v/v, we should infoyeet Alison.

You know, I'll admit that those posts are a very slight bit trolly. Jack has 42 posts though, and those are not representative of the whole. Jack has been one of the loudest Alison critics, and I think Jack's posts there look good. Do you find those RVS or trolly? I don't.

I don't see where Jack was suspected and doubled-down on being trolly. Aside from Alison saying "Jack is outed" who is suspecting Jack (there could be people but I don't remember), and where was their response to this pressure that you're so concerned with?

If you think Jack's ISO is all troll posts, you're skipping posts. One could argue that Jack is only focusing serious attention on Alison, and that would make sense to me, but Jack is more AI content posts than I do likely.

Also, the "previous posts" are actually there - just not in this game. Jack fancies himself "unyeetable" as town, this is a trope that has existed as long as I've known Jack.

Give me a summary on Jack’s worldview other than he thinks Alison has gross posts.

I literally just told you that The argument that "Jack is only focusing serous attention Alison" makes sense to me, so we won't make progress in our conversation by hashing out points we agree on.

What I disagree with you about is your claim that Jack was only trolling (you now seem to concede that Jack did have some content), and that " When he unexpectedly took heat for this he just rolled with it to try to deflect." I am still waiting to see where this happened, because I did not get this feeling at all, and it was the main issue I had with your post - this is a very specific thing you're claiming, and I don't see it and I am waiting on you to prove to me that you DID see something that you interpreted in that way.

I don’t agree that he actually has any non-trolling content other than perhaps his comment that Alison and I are not w/w. I don’t think any of his posts about Alison are genuine either. Basically I’m just seeing his entire gameplay as spouting nonsense nonstop.

These posts are trolling? These posts are non-sense?

Spoiler: show

I agree with SPF that this is a super unexciting game so far. I am just gonna vote the easiest wolf to catch and try to break the game open with associatives.

[VOTE: Kate] aubergine

??? I think I've made 2 posts. Why are you looking at me?

This is an outing reaction by the way. This is literally a wolf asking "why me?" This is someone who doesn't understand how they've been caught off 2 posts.

I would dayvig this if I had a gun.

I'll bite.

Why is this a wolf asking "why me" and not a townie asking "why me?"

The more true thing about that 4 player wagon is it is likely 75% town regardless of Kate's alignment, which is pretty well rand. So trying to do wagonomics with it is dumb.

However 3 of the voters seem much townier than the other, hence my vote.

Fill me in, which one isn't towny?

I said 3 seem townier than one. Not that one wasn't townie.

SPF, Baudib and Tutuu have been a lot townier than Creature.

Creature has hit a towntell of his which is quietly and nakedly sheeping me because he has gotten it into his head that as town I am always right and as mafia I'd feel obligated to bus. Regardless of whether you agree with that I believe that he believes it and so him acting in accordance with that is his town meta.

What does one even do with nonsense like this?

It's hard not to read it as a wolf trying to look like a townie that believes her shit doesn't stink.

snipped bc reasons-----

Hey Roxy, have you played with Creature before?

No why does it matter? It doesn't in mafia. Bad posts are, well, bad. It's why we ask questions and expect answers. It is the towns only weapon.

I have played with Kate for years and have no read. You must be psychic or a better player than I.

Highlighted pink text is contradictory.

This doesn't feel like a townie looking for wolves. This looks like a player arguing.

The more true thing about that 4 player wagon is it is likely 75% town regardless of Kate's alignment, which is pretty well rand. So trying to do wagonomics with it is dumb.

However 3 of the voters seem much townier than the other, hence my vote.

Fill me in, which one isn't towny?

I said 3 seem townier than one. Not that one wasn't townie.

SPF, Baudib and Tutuu have been a lot townier than Creature.

Creature has hit a towntell of his which is quietly and nakedly sheeping me because he has gotten it into his head that as town I am always right and as mafia I'd feel obligated to bus. Regardless of whether you agree with that I believe that he believes it and so him acting in accordance with that is his town meta.

What does one even do with nonsense like this?

It's hard not to read it as a wolf trying to look like a townie that believes her shit doesn't stink.

I'm just good at reading creature what can I say

if you have a problem with the reasoning feel free to explicate it

It's just a nonsensical tell that Creature isn't even exhibiting to begin with. It's frustrating being like "Is this obviously wrong town Alison or faking wolf Alison?"

I actually dig the SPF Creature case in a vacuum. Not voting there, though.

Kate still has not done anything after coming back to the game by the way.

This feels gross.

Most of Alison's posts feel gross.

I keep thinking there are 4 mafia but trying to remember there are 5. Quite a lot. I wonder how many ive wrongly townread already. Lol if all 5

also i know it's a very stupid and level 0 tell but i think this post is probably town indicative because whenever someone expresses confusion about how many wolves they are, theyre town roughly 80% of the time. it's a tell that wolves usually don't think to make bcuz u have to yield ur TMI kind of weirdly to come up with that type of thought as a wolf

Rejected.

The only reason I'm not voting for Alison is because Alison gave me shit for "not scumreading" her and it has reverse psychologied me into not wanting to vote her.

But that's not a good reason. Alison's posts are the worst I've read and she's >rand scum. [VOTE: Alison] aubergine

Kate still has not done anything after coming back to the game by the way.

This feels gross.

Most of Alison's posts feel gross.

what feels gross about it?

It doesn't feel like hunting. It feels like trying to make a player look bad to other players.

Town do try to make players look bad to other players but it's when they are convinced that player is scum. Like, there have been a lot of times that (regardless of if I'm correct or not) I've felt like I've had a wolf and people won't follow my vote and I'm just screaming into the void. That's a thing townies do.

But just shade on a player like that D1 for not doing enough? Feels like a thing wolves do.

usually i do

also there’s just always a wolf in alison/spf

While SPF is quoting it, legit I'm more or less focusing on Alison and SPF because of this post and recent historical games where I've correctly scumread Alison and/or SPF when they were wolves and most players didn't.

I've not liked Alison's posts about others or reactions to my posts about her.

I have liked SPF's posts about others and her reactions to my posts about her.

Fwiw.

Kate still has not done anything after coming back to the game by the way.

This feels gross.

Most of Alison's posts feel gross.

what feels gross about it?

It doesn't feel like hunting. It feels like trying to make a player look bad to other players.

Town do try to make players look bad to other players but it's when they are convinced that player is scum. Like, there have been a lot of times that (regardless of if I'm correct or not) I've felt like I've had a wolf and people won't follow my vote and I'm just screaming into the void. That's a thing townies do.

But just shade on a player like that D1 for not doing enough? Feels like a thing wolves do.

Alison is well known for not being convinced kate and roxy are scum

Rephrase?

I'm saying I don't expect you to make that post as a townie unless you really think Kate is scum and it is part of an effort to yeet your scumread.

You're saying you don't think Kate is scum. That's not contradicting what I'm saying so I feel like one of us is misunderstanding the other in this exchange.

I think jack is outed for insinuating that alison would never go balls to the wall trying to kill a player d1 for doing nothing

Didn't you push this kinda narrative last time I correctly scumread you? Just like blanket certain scumread with no oomph behind it?

Maybe it's just an Alison thing in general but it feels familiar one way or the other and I'm gonna go check in a bit.

This feels gross.

Most of Alison's posts feel gross.

what feels gross about it?

It doesn't feel like hunting. It feels like trying to make a player look bad to other players.

Town do try to make players look bad to other players but it's when they are convinced that player is scum. Like, there have been a lot of times that (regardless of if I'm correct or not) I've felt like I've had a wolf and people won't follow my vote and I'm just screaming into the void. That's a thing townies do.

But just shade on a player like that D1 for not doing enough? Feels like a thing wolves do.

Alison is well known for not being convinced kate and roxy are scum

Rephrase?

I'm saying I don't expect you to make that post as a townie unless you really think Kate is scum and it is part of an effort to yeet your scumread.

You're saying you don't think Kate is scum. That's not contradicting what I'm saying so I feel like one of us is misunderstanding the other in this exchange.

It was sarcastic. I'm saying it should be very clear that I'm convinced Kate and Roxy are scum so you saying "this post only comes from town if Alison thinks Kate and Roxy are scum" is a meaningless read. Roxy even scumread me for how convinced I was that Kate was scum.

Gotcha. Well, I'm gonna be looking at your original reasons for scumreading Kate anyhow because it's relevant to this and SPF is asking about it/went back and found it for me. We'll see if that changes my

why do u think that alison's reads are wolf-indicative? i thought that the original post she pointed out from kate was legitimately wolfy, or i could at least understand why someone would take issue with it. do u think the ppl she's pushing (kate/roxy) are town?

I think they sound fake and agenday, incomplete analysis aside.

I don't have a read on them.

Only > rand, not even >> rand. smh

Kate still has not done anything after coming back to the game by the way.

This feels gross.

Most of Alison's posts feel gross.

what feels gross about it?

It doesn't feel like hunting. It feels like trying to make a player look bad to other players.

Town do try to make players look bad to other players but it's when they are convinced that player is scum. Like, there have been a lot of times that (regardless of if I'm correct or not) I've felt like I've had a wolf and people won't follow my vote and I'm just screaming into the void. That's a thing townies do.

But just shade on a player like that D1 for not doing enough? Feels like a thing wolves do.

okay

so then what do you think about alison's original reason for pushing on kate? do you think it looks like alison is talking about kate in a bad faith way?

I agree with SPF that this is a super unexciting game so far. I am just gonna vote the easiest wolf to catch and try to break the game open with associatives.

[VOTE: Kate] aubergine

Also from my limited games with rondo he seems to be playing within his civ meta right now so probably wouldn’t want to vote their today

Just read through once and I for now agree on this. This is almost identical to the way he opened the last game and he was civ. Unless of course, he's doing that to make us think that... anyway nothing about his gameplay pings me thus far.

Lots of pings in this thread for a cold day 1 from many people. I'll have to reread tomorrow for any deeper thoughts.

Explain to me what's obvscum about this post

She agrees with Rondo meta, immediately undermines her own view, then promises a future reread (a reread? Thread was literally 2 pages) that has to happen before she gives any deeper thoughts. It's a waffly nothingburger of a post.

because i can understand why the thought of: "this player isn't doing enough" could be wolfy to say about someone this early into the game, but i also feel like you're singling out that specific post from alison without seeming to factor her original reason for pushing kate in the first place into your analysis. it feels like incomplete analysis

Yeah, that just kinda feels like a bunch of nitpicking. Calling promises of future content wolfy is like....you wait for the content to come or not come. And agreeing with meta and undermining yourself aren't scum indicative in the first place. Does feel bad faith.
As a former math teacher, >> is an incorrect use of > signs.

Spoiler: show

That I would only use for like wrestler or superhero tier lists.

Kate still has not done anything after coming back to the game by the way.

This feels gross.

Most of Alison's posts feel gross.

what feels gross about it?

It doesn't feel like hunting. It feels like trying to make a player look bad to other players.

Town do try to make players look bad to other players but it's when they are convinced that player is scum. Like, there have been a lot of times that (regardless of if I'm correct or not) I've felt like I've had a wolf and people won't follow my vote and I'm just screaming into the void. That's a thing townies do.

But just shade on a player like that D1 for not doing enough? Feels like a thing wolves do.

okay

so then what do you think about alison's original reason for pushing on kate? do you think it looks like alison is talking about kate in a bad faith way?

I agree with SPF that this is a super unexciting game so far. I am just gonna vote the easiest wolf to catch and try to break the game open with associatives.

[VOTE: Kate] aubergine

Also from my limited games with rondo he seems to be playing within his civ meta right now so probably wouldn’t want to vote their today

Just read through once and I for now agree on this. This is almost identical to the way he opened the last game and he was civ. Unless of course, he's doing that to make us think that... anyway nothing about his gameplay pings me thus far.

Lots of pings in this thread for a cold day 1 from many people. I'll have to reread tomorrow for any deeper thoughts.

Explain to me what's obvscum about this post

She agrees with Rondo meta, immediately undermines her own view, then promises a future reread (a reread? Thread was literally 2 pages) that has to happen before she gives any deeper thoughts. It's a waffly nothingburger of a post.

because i can understand why the thought of: "this player isn't doing enough" could be wolfy to say about someone this early into the game, but i also feel like you're singling out that specific post from alison without seeming to factor her original reason for pushing kate in the first place into your analysis. it feels like incomplete analysis

Yeah, that just kinda feels like a bunch of nitpicking. Calling promises of future content wolfy is like....you wait for the content to come or not come. And agreeing with meta and undermining yourself aren't scum indicative in the first place. Does feel bad faith.

I am back. I see Porscha and Jack have outed even further.

Yeah. This is very similar to wolf Alison has treated town Jack in the past as a response to me suspecting her.

Kill with fire immediately.

Yeah, that just kinda feels like a bunch of nitpicking. Calling promises of future content wolfy is like....you wait for the content to come or not come. And agreeing with meta and undermining yourself aren't scum indicative in the first place. Does feel bad faith.

okay. i dont find promises of future content either, but i do think that specifically saying: "i will need to read this part of the game again' on page 2 of the RVS phase can be indicative of a wolf who feels insecure about not being towny ~enough~ and is trying to cover for it by acting like they're going to post more content later. i noticed myself doing similar stuff when i was wolfing in hydra game 4 so i think it can be a legitimate wolftell with the right context

i think i somewhat agree with you that some of alison's reasons for pushing on ppl are flimsy/could be perceived as bad faith but i also dont particularly think this is alignment indicative for alison

So you're saying Alison is bad at catching wolves when she's town?

Alison/Baudib at least not w/w, which is neat.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Alison/Mac/Bau woofie woofers

Neon is pocketing me, and I kinda like it.




It's not nearly as bright as you might expect

My pocket has 500 cable channels and free wifi

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

i am hard vetoing alison lynch today

Why?

[Baudib1]

Yes those posts are nonsense.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Percentage chance of a Mac/Alison W/W world? Like anyone else think that's a possibility right meow? Because it's something I'm buying into more and more during reread.

Sell me on it. What is making you feel that way?

I'm not much of a seller gotta be honest I don't really like making scum cases.

I feel like they are treating each other with kid gloves they are interacting and iirc Mac has a scum read on Alison but he's barely getting into it. I'm used to Alison and Mac at least making some noise when they play together it's like a neutered version of what I'd expect

Your expectations of me are misaligned with the reality of me.

Wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. What should I be looking for?

[MacDougall]

Percentage chance of a Mac/Alison W/W world? Like anyone else think that's a possibility right meow? Because it's something I'm buying into more and more during reread.

Sell me on it. What is making you feel that way?

I'm not much of a seller gotta be honest I don't really like making scum cases.

I feel like they are treating each other with kid gloves they are interacting and iirc Mac has a scum read on Alison but he's barely getting into it. I'm used to Alison and Mac at least making some noise when they play together it's like a neutered version of what I'd expect

Your expectations of me are misaligned with the reality of me.

Wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. What should I be looking for?

Genuine solving.

[Baudib1]

Mac, can you elaborate on why Alison is OK but her suspicions are based on horseshit/opportunistic? Like I kinda feel you but talk me through it.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Percentage chance of a Mac/Alison W/W world? Like anyone else think that's a possibility right meow? Because it's something I'm buying into more and more during reread.

Sorry if you explain later but I'm in catch up and want to know what you are seeing in catch up that would make you think its w/w? Iirc mac said something about alison maybe wolf but dont think it went anywhere

That was kinda my problem yeah

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

@Neon -

let's talk when youre around

I am going to bed but I'll ping you when I'm on later. It uh might be too late though.

[RondoDimBuckle]

You town Tutuu mafia.

can I ask you to elaborate on both?

[robyn]

[VOTE: Rondo] aubergine

wolf claim

[Seanzie]

Alison/Mac/Bau woofie woofers

Neon is pocketing me, and I kinda like it.




It's not nearly as bright as you might expect

I think this is mafia Falcon.

*copy/paste one of the 17 posts I've made in previous games about why yeeting Falcon early in a game is a bad idea*

Even if you think this, I'd recommend spending your attention elsewhere for now.

I would say the same thing about Alison. Why is eliminating Falcon early worse than Alison without factoring alignment?

I don't really think we should elim Alison either, but if I did have to argue this, I'd say that even though Alison has recently been an often early yeet, that hasn't always been the case, and I think there are plenty of situations where wolf!Alison could go deep and endgame. Wolf!Falcon is not as good deep and will not endgame nearly as well as wolf!Alison.

I don't think this is true at all tbh. Falcon's mafia winrate is insanely high and he has a tendency to skate by on not much whereas mafia Alison that gets through day 1 never endgames.

Quote from another game:

Spoiler: show

No to Falcon. No.

Not yet at least.

Overruled

Give a good reason if you want people to listen.

Falcon is an easy read as time goes on and are an easy misyeet for wolves early. If Falcon is a wolf, taking them out will not severely hinder the wolves (no offence to Falcon, but he kinda hates wolfing, and while he isn't a negative to the wolf-team, he isn't exactly the choice to go deep), and Falcon's best strength as a wolf is he is good at not leaving spew/leaving misleading spew, so flipping him early gives very little benefit even if he is wolf, but leaving him alive will never cause a loss because he is wolf (if we wouldn't have lost anyways), and we will know if he is town or not before elo.

Falcon's wolf winrate includes a lot of games where wolf!Falcon was yeeted D1 (Bee mafia, Ducktales mafia to name two off the top of my head), whereas I could be wrong, but I don't think wolf!Falcon has ever solo endgamed and won. He can "skate by on not much", but only to a point. wolf!Falcon's skating on by does not work unless he has teammates. Kill the teammates, Falcon falls too.

I cannot think of a mafia!Alison endgame, but I also mostly know of mafia!Alison games where Alison died early. Perhaps you're right. Either way, I don't really think either are a good choice for today, and Alison not being a good choice does not make Falcon a good choice.

[Baudib1]

[VOTE: Rondo] aubergine

wolf claim

I’m down to vote Rondo independent of whatever he claimed (that I missed?) but I suppose we should let him clarify first.

[Seanzie]

Alison/Mac/Bau woofie woofers

Neon is pocketing me, and I kinda like it.




It's not nearly as bright as you might expect

My pocket has 500 cable channels and free wifi

wtf nobody uses cable anymore. My parent's don't even use cable anymore (it took me so long to convince them that cable was a ripoff though).

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Percentage chance of a Mac/Alison W/W world? Like anyone else think that's a possibility right meow? Because it's something I'm buying into more and more during reread.

Sell me on it. What is making you feel that way?

I'm not much of a seller gotta be honest I don't really like making scum cases.

I feel like they are treating each other with kid gloves they are interacting and iirc Mac has a scum read on Alison but he's barely getting into it. I'm used to Alison and Mac at least making some noise when they play together it's like a neutered version of what I'd expect

Your expectations of me are misaligned with the reality of me.

Wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong. What should I be looking for?

Genuine solving.

What if I didn't feel like there was genuineness to your solving until recently?



Or like... much solving at all.

[Seanzie]

Yes those posts are nonsense.

This post is nonsense.

(my post is dead serious though - I cannot honestly think that Baudib is saying this about the Jack posts I quoted)

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Alison/Mac/Bau woofie woofers

Neon is pocketing me, and I kinda like it.




It's not nearly as bright as you might expect

My pocket has 500 cable channels and free wifi

wtf nobody uses cable anymore. My parent's don't even use cable anymore (it took me so long to convince them that cable was a ripoff though).

Comcast was all like yo cable and I was all like no and than they were like pocket cable is the way of the future or something.

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Rondo] aubergine

Dude's soft cc'ing a hard claim. It'd make sense if it was to "draw a NK", but that doesn't make sense given the Oracle.

I don't see the town motivation for this. They need to un-CC or hardclaim or die.

[Seanzie]

I'm not actually going to move my vote though. It is there in spirit.

[falcon45ca]

Alison/Mac/Bau woofie woofers

Neon is pocketing me, and I kinda like it.




It's not nearly as bright as you might expect

I think this is mafia Falcon.

I believe there were multiple people calling Falcon town, and I’d like to see them come here and explain themselves.

This just drips w/ "why can't I get him lynched??" energy.



I mean, you don't even have a good reason at all that I've seen posted for why I'm wolf...something about my first post being the wolfiest you've ever seen is probably the post w/ the most substance you've had regarding my slot...and I don't know about anybody else, but that's pretty pretty weak.


Cuz' you were asked why, and I don't recall ever seeing an explanation.

[RondoDimBuckle]

Hot take: Alison/Roxy is w/w.

Do I believe it? I don't know. But it is a hot take.

I love how seanzie hates me yet has the same reads as me at the same points in thread

[RondoDimBuckle]

Taken from Lucy's post 684 but its white spoiler so I am not quoting it:

Creature
4
24%
Voters: RondoDimBuckle, tutuu, MacDougall, staypositivefriend

Same thoery as before. If creature is town, who are the wolves? If Creature is wolf who are the wolves? (If any for both)

[Baudib1]

Alison/Mac/Bau woofie woofers

Neon is pocketing me, and I kinda like it.




It's not nearly as bright as you might expect

I think this is mafia Falcon.

I believe there were multiple people calling Falcon town, and I’d like to see them come here and explain themselves.

This just drips w/ "why can't I get him lynched??" energy.



I mean, you don't even have a good reason at all that I've seen posted for why I'm wolf...something about my first post being the wolfiest you've ever seen is probably the post w/ the most substance you've had regarding my slot...and I don't know about anybody else, but that's pretty pretty weak.


Cuz' you were asked why, and I don't recall ever seeing an explanation.

Other people are more villagery.

[falcon45ca]

lol I think DrWilgy had a wolf list that feels like it's 0/3 so he can go

Yeah, but it's D1...weird reason to SR him IMO

The same can be said to literally any wolfread rn. Gotta start somewhere.

No, that's not true. Lots of legit reasons to SR a player can & do emerge D1, but to SR a player just cuz you feel they have 0 wolves in a list of 3 is utter crap

Once again, no it isn’t. Pushing wrong world views is exactly what scum do.

@MacDougall

Baudib wasn't saying Wilgy had a wrong worldview he was managing the reads quality of the player he replied to. He made no comment on Wilgy.

Well, why don't we ask him? Cuz' given the context of that convo, coupled w/ the fact that Baudi has expressed Wilgy as a SR, then I think it's perfectly natural to assume that Baudi was saying that Wilgy had a bad world view because he's scum.


@Baudib1 what say you? Did you mean or do you believe that Wilgy has a wrong world view and that he's scum?

[Baudib1]

Hot take: Alison/Roxy is w/w.

Do I believe it? I don't know. But it is a hot take.

I love how seanzie hates me yet has the same reads as me at the same points in thread

This is pretty clearly not a serious read and you trying to pretend he has the same worldview as you is blatant mischaracterization. And of all things for you to comment on, this would appear to be a superfluous post.

[falcon45ca]

Alison/Mac/Bau woofie woofers

Neon is pocketing me, and I kinda like it.




It's not nearly as bright as you might expect

I think this is mafia Falcon.

I believe there were multiple people calling Falcon town, and I’d like to see them come here and explain themselves.

This just drips w/ "why can't I get him lynched??" energy.



I mean, you don't even have a good reason at all that I've seen posted for why I'm wolf...something about my first post being the wolfiest you've ever seen is probably the post w/ the most substance you've had regarding my slot...and I don't know about anybody else, but that's pretty pretty weak.


Cuz' you were asked why, and I don't recall ever seeing an explanation.

Other people are more villagery.

Ah, the ole' "town act like villagers and scum act like wolves"....OK.




Can you give any specifics on who you believe was more "villagery" and why? Also, does being more villagery mean another player is scum?

[Baudib1]

Yeah, but it's D1...weird reason to SR him IMO

The same can be said to literally any wolfread rn. Gotta start somewhere.

No, that's not true. Lots of legit reasons to SR a player can & do emerge D1, but to SR a player just cuz you feel they have 0 wolves in a list of 3 is utter crap

Once again, no it isn’t. Pushing wrong world views is exactly what scum do.

@MacDougall

Baudib wasn't saying Wilgy had a wrong worldview he was managing the reads quality of the player he replied to. He made no comment on Wilgy.

Well, why don't we ask him? Cuz' given the context of that convo, coupled w/ the fact that Baudi has expressed Wilgy as a SR, then I think it's perfectly natural to assume that Baudi was saying that Wilgy had a bad world view because he's scum.


@Baudib1 what say you? Did you mean or do you believe that Wilgy has a wrong world view and that he's scum?

I dislike Wilgy for other reasons but I don’t have an opinion on his wolf leans list. But if someone lists wolf reads that you think are blatantly wrong, that is indeed a good reason to scumread them. This shouldn’t have to be explained frankly.

[RondoDimBuckle]

Hot take: Alison/Roxy is w/w.

Do I believe it? I don't know. But it is a hot take.

I love how seanzie hates me yet has the same reads as me at the same points in thread

This is pretty clearly not a serious read and you trying to pretend he has the same worldview as you is blatant mischaracterization. And of all things for you to comment on, this would appear to be a superfluous post.

Seanzie likes to play fast and loose with his reads, he decided to post it so there is an off chance he actually thought of it and believed it needed to be put into thread. I have been having the same thought and I decided to point it out. Interesting way to sus me tho.

[Seanzie]

Is anyone specifically townreading Dennis?

[falcon45ca]

The same can be said to literally any wolfread rn. Gotta start somewhere.

No, that's not true. Lots of legit reasons to SR a player can & do emerge D1, but to SR a player just cuz you feel they have 0 wolves in a list of 3 is utter crap

Once again, no it isn’t. Pushing wrong world views is exactly what scum do.

@MacDougall

Baudib wasn't saying Wilgy had a wrong worldview he was managing the reads quality of the player he replied to. He made no comment on Wilgy.

Well, why don't we ask him? Cuz' given the context of that convo, coupled w/ the fact that Baudi has expressed Wilgy as a SR, then I think it's perfectly natural to assume that Baudi was saying that Wilgy had a bad world view because he's scum.


@Baudib1 what say you? Did you mean or do you believe that Wilgy has a wrong world view and that he's scum?

I dislike Wilgy for other reasons but I don’t have an opinion on his wolf leans list. But if someone lists wolf reads that you think are blatantly wrong, that is indeed a good reason to scumread them. This shouldn’t have to be explained frankly.

OK, so what are the reasons you Wilgy? Since they are for other reasons, you clearly can't have an issue with his wolf reads at the time, since that would be as you say a good reason to SR them.



So what are your reasons?

[Seanzie]

Hot take: Alison/Roxy is w/w.

Do I believe it? I don't know. But it is a hot take.

I love how seanzie hates me yet has the same reads as me at the same points in thread

This is pretty clearly not a serious read and you trying to pretend he has the same worldview as you is blatant mischaracterization. And of all things for you to comment on, this would appear to be a superfluous post.

Seanzie likes to play fast and loose with his reads, he decided to post it so there is an off chance he actually thought of it and believed it needed to be put into thread. I have been having the same thought and I decided to point it out. Interesting way to sus me tho.

To be fair, I did actually think it, but I put it at tinfoil-level of belief.

In particular I thought it because the way Alison was pushing reminded me a little bit of Alison/Rondo early on in Halvosen Ridge, which was w/w.