Mountain Mafia [END]

[Jackofhearts2005]

I called Epi's case bad. Which it was. You've just rejected the "why" for that perspective because [insert some dumb reason here]. I'm not defending myself because I don't need to. You're in a tunnel. Get out of it.

What is the why?

Got none. Epi's case just sucks.

what sucks about it?

It rejects common sense.

How so?

<------------------------------

No reason provided.

"Jay lynched Mesk over Dom even though he had a GTH town read on Mesk because Mesk had posts and that's suspicious" was his case. That's not even a misrepresentation.

What is worse for me is that 3J elected to vote Mesk over Dom because...Mesk had more to say? That's shit, and 3J should know it's shit.

That's a bad case and he should feel bad for making it.

No reason provided.

I said why once. Good enough for me. Unless you're interested in turning me into a cheap lynch, you'll look for yourself.

Not a townie attitude.

[Elohcin]

Yay, caught up. So, guess what guys... I'm feeling better. I'm not 100%, but better. Not that dunya cares . She's still making passes at my man...talkin' about being his pet now. Tisk tisk.

This jay lynch is giving me a new perspective on some of you. But I'll share mt thoughts tomorrow. For now, I sleep.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I've gone at it with townie Quin before and I've seen others go at it with survival Quin.

Why is he giving up?

[Sloonei]

colonialbob interacting with jay:

Everyone should tell me what things in this thread you feel are most important/most warrant my attention and discussion among those I didn't just address.

I'd be interested in thoughts on me/jack/LC. Also the vote swapping from Epi to Nutella

Responds to Jay's initial plea for direction. Innocent enough. I raised a few objections to Jay's response in my mega post(s) earlier, though. Bob's follow up response is also harmless. None of this moves the needle in either direction.

Plops Jay in the direct center of a rainbow

Spoiler: show

Elohcin's rainbow and dialogue with Sloonei

Sloonei's questions here were reasonable -- Elohcin voiced in vague terms that the high posters seem civ and that she'd be willing to vote for a low poster. The contents of the rainbow list don't align with that much. A change of heart is fine, but I don't know if that's even what happened in Eloh's head -- the progression is unclear. The names in the rainbow almost appear randomized. I'm surprised to see myself rated well given my own slow start, and I have no idea why Mesk is so high. I don't know why the low posters are split between yellow and orange. I don't know why the high posters Sloonei and Quin are orange. When given an opportunity to expand on these things, she just said "relax" and restated the general purpose of a rainbow list.

Elohcin, you need to talk more about what's going on there.

So then if he was right on all that why did he drop the vote when Epi said the read/case was bad? What made him swap his vote?

This does not feel like a teammate interaction. It's not impossible for it to be, but I think this is a good look for Bob. I disagree with the line of thought he is presenting here, but it looks like a genuine inquiry for a player he is trying to understand. If Jay and Bob are teammates then they are carrying on an entirely fabricated dialogue here. Again, not impossible, but also not something I'd say is common.

Moreover I think the low-poster lynch strategy is ideal under these conditions.

Explain please. I'm also curious why you're defending somebody you didn't seem to be fully onboard with as town.

I can see more of a teammate motivation here, as this post presents an opportunity for some soft distancing. But it's still the same dialogue as above, and I'd need to decide that this is definitely something they'd fabricate in the thread in order for the partnership to make sense.

Spoiler: show

Elohcin's rainbow and dialogue with Sloonei

Sloonei's questions here were reasonable -- Elohcin voiced in vague terms that the high posters seem civ and that she'd be willing to vote for a low poster. The contents of the rainbow list don't align with that much. A change of heart is fine, but I don't know if that's even what happened in Eloh's head -- the progression is unclear. The names in the rainbow almost appear randomized. I'm surprised to see myself rated well given my own slow start, and I have no idea why Mesk is so high. I don't know why the low posters are split between yellow and orange. I don't know why the high posters Sloonei and Quin are orange. When given an opportunity to expand on these things, she just said "relax" and restated the general purpose of a rainbow list.

Elohcin, you need to talk more about what's going on there.

So then if he was right on all that why did he drop the vote when Epi said the read/case was bad? What made him swap his vote?

This was where I started to doubt Bob in real time. This is a wonky line of questioning. "Well if Sloonei's right about Eloh, why isn't he voting for her?", as if Town Sloonei should be certain that his read on Elohcin was correct, and it is suspicious that Sloonbeard would not follow through on such a convincing self-made read. Bogus line of inquiry. He's voting for me because I'm considering voting for Elohcin, then turning around to criticize me for not voting Elohcin.

That question was directed at JJJ because it was intended for JJJ. He was supporting your posting, so I wanted to understand why the part that bothered me didn't bother him. I wanted his thought process to help formulate a read on him, not as part of my feelings on you. I can certainly see why you interpreted this thay way, though, especially on ISO.

A continuation of the same conversation, only here I've interjected myself into it. He's trying to understand Jay's thought process. I can believe that. I don't have to. we'll see.

Spoiler: show

That question was directed at JJJ because it was intended for JJJ. He was supporting your posting, so I wanted to understand why the part that bothered me didn't bother him. I wanted his thought process to help formulate a read on him, not as part of my feelings on you. I can certainly see why you interpreted this thay way, though, especially on ISO.

Can you describe the mafia mindset you attributed to Sloonei at the time regarding his vote move off of Elohcin? What about that maneuver made you suspicious of him?

He threw out a case on Eloh, nobody followed out and somebody disagreed with it, he moved off Eloh but expressed he was still fine voting her. Similarly, his "I could end up on Epi." In my experience mafia often try to gain consensus on their votes and are less likely to stake bold voting positions.

(Keep in mind part of his defense was "this is normal play for me," but I've essentially never played with him before. I modded one game on another site that I think you ebbed up replacing him, I was only alive one cycle in Crossover (and maybe he was modding?), and CC123 is far from a normal game)

At this point the dialogue has become essential for the both of them and there's no escaping it. If my hangup on the likelihood of this conversation being held between two teammates is the only piece of evidence in colonialbob's favor then I'm not buying it. If there's a larger backdrop of evidence then I'll have to reconsider. The initial exchange looked spontaneous but the rest of it has felt rather formulaic to me. That could just be a product of Jay's behavior appearing off to me, and I'm also projecting the same awkwardness onto bob, whom I've not played a real game with before (which came as a shock to me; we've been involved in several games together in the past, but never both as active players, CC-123 withstanding. Sorry you've been my prime susect, Bobert! )
I won't keep pulling up every post from this exchange. It's there and we can all read it and judge its authenticity for ourselves. I do not find it hard to believe that Jay and Bob would willfully carry out an extended dialogue in the thread while secretly being scum partners. It's a good look, so it's something they might be inclined to coordinate. On the other hand, it's simply a good look.

Gives Jay the thumbs up during the GTH drill

~ I'm surprised by the even split on Colonel Bob. Through the long night phase he seemed to attract and hold negative press without receiving much support if any. This was one of the more conflicted reads for me, and I may not be alone in that given the lack of consensus.

Me too. I want to go back and cross check all the people who said "wow that's a good case Sloonei has" with how they read me.

(PS it's colonial, I'm not in the army or anything )

Jay's observation about Bob doesn't move me in any meaningful way, nor does Bob's response. It's the postscript that gives me more pause on my Bob scumread. That would be an awkward public exchange for two players who've allegedly been in private contact with each other throughout the game. It reflects genuine uncertainty and desire to correct the mistake from Bob, and I imagine the proper spelling of his name is something that would have previously been established in BTSC. Or maybe not, and this was just a sudden flare up. I don't know. But that's two things that don't strike me as being indicative of teammates. Hmph.

Well I liked this game.

Idk if it made me do better reads but it forced me to make a firm decision on several players. Felt the need to elaborate on Bob (poe/gut/no obvious pairing) and Eloh (feels real in spite of everything) in the moment but choose not to.

I'm following the progression of Jack's read on the Colonel, as the latter alluded to. He did move quickly from a bottom-tier mafia read to a GTH good read in quick succession. One question emerges here for colonialbob:

In a world where Jack is mafia and you are a civilian, what is the mafia benefit Jack enjoys by reversing his perspective of you in the wake of the negative press you received in the night phase? In this scenario you ought to look like a juicy mislynch steak.

His read was wishy-washy all game, constantly qualified with "I can't read bob". Swapping to a good read (but a questionable one) puts him in a position to be convinced I'm bad while also not leading the lynch on me. Remember his GTH reads followed a bit behind others... perhaps enough time to see several people viewing me as town?

Also helps if he and speed are w/w, let one keep pushing on me while one holds back.

Another q&a between Bob and Jay, but this one is necessitated by Jay playing the facilitator role in an exchange between Jack and Bob. I'm not particularly moved.

Seeing some very potential JJJ/quin links page 65. Also, did tripJ ever explain his late swap from Eloh back to Mesk?

I don't think J is bad with Dunya or Quin.

Bad Jimmy and bad Quin don't team up to save bad Dom. That's really dangerous for little return, given Dom has been inactive.

I still think Wuin is good.

Disagree. The first death being a mafia death is very bad thing for mafia. Bad Quin has cover from pushing after lasagne from the beginning, plus it's easier to justify votes swapping around in a CFD type EOD. I mean heck Sloonei voted with JJJ and I'm almost positive they're not w/w. I think JJJ/Quin/Dom w/w/w is still very much on the table.

(Plus little return isn't necessarily true. He could be Sutter Buttes, or Gwendol Wreakin's kill might be special in some way. And if his teammates can submit an action for him, doubly so.)

Some inclinations that bob is starting to suspect Jay. Good at face value, but I take it with a grain of salt due to my overarching theory that Jay invited his team to distance themselves from him after Day 3. I won't discredit Bob for coming out against him. I will, however note that immediately following this second post in which he names Jay/Quin/Dom as a potential scum trio, he casts this vote:

Kylemii

I didn't like his push on Jack, I don't feel like he's solving, and I don't want to tunnel in on JJJ this early in the phase.

Doesn't want to tunnel Jay too much. Fair, but in a chin-scratching, skeptical way. Because, you know, I have to read Bob as bad.

I said I was going to put reads in this thread and I will. I do not have time to be Jerry Seinfeld and I don't give a shit about trying to be Jerry Seinfeld. I frankly don't see how there could be any impression that I give a shit about trying to be Jerry Seinfeld or any other generic super-civilian cookie cutter rendition of myself given the posts I have made in this game. This variety of meta read is bogus, as though JJJ suddenly forgets how to make a million posts when he draws a mafia role.

There's a reason I am only here during brief windows right now. That won't change for the foreseeable future in this or ensuing games. I implore the civilians in this thread to engage a broad dialogue whether I am your locked vote or not. Nothing is friendlier to the mafia team right now than a continuing focus on me, especially when I am in no position to engage the discussion.

I'd really prefer you to give us reasons you're town, rather than "I'm not bad you'll regret voting for me because it's what the mafia wants"

This is a prod that doesn't move me, again. Just a vague plea for "reasons to read Jay as town." I like that he's on Jay's case, but I don't feel like this post accomplishes a whole lot.

I'm also bothered by the lack of votes in this day.

If Jay is bad, it would make sense for there to be some counter-wagon by now (maybe Wilgy is the counter wagon?). And I don't like how everyone who is voting for Jay is someone I'm currently townreading (well there is Jack, but I like current Jack more than Day 1 Jack so i'm still on the fence about him). Maybe mafia is just watching from afar, since the civs are doing their dirty work for them. So they don't need to expose themselves, by making bussing too obvious or risking discussion going against them.

Still catching up but had to comment on this. Jay seems a pretty obvious target for today - if he is bad he seems a better candidate for bussing than saving, especially considering his availability.

What was the purpose behind making this post?

To express disagreement with DDL as well as point out a soft defense of JJJ.

Why are you asking about this post?

Here he's going after DDL for an apparent defense of Jay. I don't fault DDL for this line of thinking, but I suppose this is another good look for bob, but one which I am still taking with a grain of salt. He even acknowledges himself that Jay is more likely a bus candidate than someone his teammates would try to save. And it is exactly that line of thinking which has me eyeballing this post right now. Bob has been vaguely positive on Jay all game long prior to Night 3, with neither of them taking a critical stance toward the other at any point. There were a couple of back-and-forth discussions, but they never really dug into one another as players in the game, only discussed theories involving other players. As such, it is difficult to get a sense that either of them was making an effort to read the other during those earlier exchanges. After Jay emerged as a public suspect, Bob was on board and did not look back. Phew. I thought I'd lost my tunnel vision for a moment.

Jay's iso case posts read sincere to me.

I must say I strongly disagree. They look so, so fake to me. Either way, they will be interesting to consider once we know his alignment.

Intrigued. How so? Are you saying you don't see yourself moving off JJJ today?

"Intrigued" by nutella's harsh stance against Jay, feat. empty follow up question.

And then a vote for speedchuck

CFD. For the fourth night in a row. No thanks I'll stick with speed.

But why? And also, as speedchuck noted himself, he was the CFD option. Jay was the initial suspect. Bob would point out that wilgy was the CFD option. Both of them were. I don't know, and I still don't know why bob was voting for chuck, but I haven't exactly been looking for that so I shouldn't speak about it other than to note that speedchuck and jaggedjimmyjay are not the same person.

I like the people on JJJ much more, so I'm swtiching over. JJJ

About an hour later bob returned to cast his final vote on Jay, citing that the crowd around him were all top blokes; good eggs. This strikes me as a bit of an awkward explanation. He'd already come out as harshly opposed to Jay earlier in the day, so much so that he attacked DDL for offering a soft defense of the J's. But when it came time to vote, bob held off for as long as he could and then when he finally did put his vote on Jay, it was not because of any case to be made directly against Jay, but because the players voting for him are all good.
I need a more thorough explanation from Bob regarding his votes and overall behavior on Day 4, because I'm feeling some inconsistencies (the bad kind) here. why were you on speed in the first place? How would you characterize your suspicion of Jay from the start of the day phase through to the end? who were the "good" Jay voters that inspired you to move your vote?

These interactions have brought Bob closer to a town read than he was previously, but the evidence in his favor is not strong enough to remove him from my hot seat. He'd still be a priority suspect going into tomorrow, but perhaps not the priority suspect as he was before.

[colonialbob]

CFD. For the fourth night in a row. No thanks I'll stick with speed.

I like the people on JJJ much more, so I'm swtiching over. JJJ

his vote is on speed for a while, then when it becomes clear that Jay is taking the lead again he hops on!



I'm sold sloonei let's do this

Wrong. I was the vote that put JJJ in the lead.

[Sloonei]

CFD. For the fourth night in a row. No thanks I'll stick with speed.

I like the people on JJJ much more, so I'm swtiching over. JJJ

his vote is on speed for a while, then when it becomes clear that Jay is taking the lead again he hops on!



I'm sold sloonei let's do this

Wrong. I was the vote that put JJJ in the lead.

so?

Jay seems a pretty obvious target for today - if he is bad he seems a better candidate for bussing than saving, especially considering his availability.

[nutella]

Can you tell me exactly what the vote tally was at the time you voted?

[colonialbob]

Can you tell me exactly what the vote tally was at the time you voted?

Sloonei did you move back to JJJ before or after I did?

I don't know. I was the 5th or 6th vote on him.
Initially I was the first.

Yeah I'm trying to figure out who was already there before me. I think you were 5th because I saw you, Epi, and nutella and liked that a lot more than jack, mal, kyle. Meaning it was DDL, speed, Epi, nutella, you on JJJ vs Eloh, Mal, LC, Jack, Kyle, myself on speed when I switched.

[colonialbob]

CFD. For the fourth night in a row. No thanks I'll stick with speed.

I like the people on JJJ much more, so I'm swtiching over. JJJ

his vote is on speed for a while, then when it becomes clear that Jay is taking the lead again he hops on!



I'm sold sloonei let's do this

Wrong. I was the vote that put JJJ in the lead.

so?

Jay seems a pretty obvious target for today - if he is bad he seems a better candidate for bussing than saving, especially considering his availability.

So she was factually incorrect. It was not clear JJJ was taking the lead, since my vote put him in the lead. if you think I'm bussing him, fine. You're wrong, but fine. But let's at least base the case on things that actually happened.

[Sloonei]

I'd argue that the climate in the thread was very clearly anti-Jay as we approached the deadline yesterday. Your vote may have put him over the top, but I don't find that to be a tremendously convincing fact given that he was clearly the most widely-suspected player and votes were beginning to pile on him.

[Epignosis]

but now that I have to explain the premise of the joke it just seems kind of mean spirited. Sorry Marmot, love you.

epig, the only reason I welcomed JJJ was so I could make fun of Marmots spelling mistake. I love making fun of people's spelling mistakes, it's like my favorite thing.

I made the malakim??? Post cus I'd never met or heard of malakim before on this website

*Marmot's

*mistakes; it's

Uh oh, who invited famous Victorian Era English writer and social critic Charles Dickens to play mafia with us and what did he do with our dear friend Epignosis?

Charles Dickens had a lot of sex.

So does Epignosis.

With whom?

[colonialbob]

Again, that's fine. I obviously disagree with you, because I'm town, but that's fine. All I want is for the case to be made on facts, not falsehoods. That's all I was trying to correct nutella on.

[colonialbob]

Question for Sloonei: if you think JJJ told his teammates to bus him D3, doesn't every suspicion of JJJ expressed D3 instantly become worthless because it's potential bussing?

Second: if all his teammates were bussing him why were there so many Wilgy and Speed votes until very late in the phase?

[Sloonei]

Again, that's fine. I obviously disagree with you, because I'm town, but that's fine. All I want is for the case to be made on facts, not falsehoods. That's all I was trying to correct nutella on.

why did you vote for speedchuck, or how did your read of Jay progress throughout the day?

[Sloonei]

Question for Sloonei: if you think JJJ told his teammates to bus him D3, doesn't every suspicion of JJJ expressed D3 instantly become worthless because it's potential bussing?

Nope. It's our job as responsible townies to suss out the honest suspicions from the false ones.

Second: if all his teammates were bussing him why were there so many Wilgy and Speed votes until very late in the phase?

Townies can be uncertain, or wrong, or vote for mafia members not called JaggedJimmyJay. And it's possible not all of his teammates were on the bus.

[Sloonei]

Again, that's fine. I obviously disagree with you, because I'm town, but that's fine. All I want is for the case to be made on facts, not falsehoods. That's all I was trying to correct nutella on.

why did you vote for speedchuck, or how did your read of Jay progress throughout the day?

or is supposed to say and. I want answers to both things, not one or the other.

[colonialbob]

Again, that's fine. I obviously disagree with you, because I'm town, but that's fine. All I want is for the case to be made on facts, not falsehoods. That's all I was trying to correct nutella on.

why did you vote for speedchuck, or how did your read of Jay progress throughout the day?

I votes for speedchuck because he was my biggest scum read. As the day went along, I bought into the JJJ case you and Epi laid out. So speedchuck and JJJ were my top scumreads. But then I looked at the trains and I was on a train with Kyle (somebody I didn't trust, see my first vote), Jack (somebody I didn't trust, see my history), Mal (somebody who was a pretty common scumread), and Eloh and LC (two players I wasn't suspicious of but also didn't have a solid town read on). Meanwhile JJJ had my three strongest town reads (nutella, you, epignosis). I decided I'd rather be with my town reads than my scumreads, considering that independent of other viewpoints he was second on my suspicion list.

[Sloonei]

"Player x is/was my strongest scum read" is not an adequate answer for me. All that does is reaffirm that your suspicion exists. I'm asking you to give me reasons why speedchuck was your strongest scum read, especially relative to Jay.

[colonialbob]

"Player x is/was my strongest scum read" is not an adequate answer for me. All that does is reaffirm that your suspicion exists. I'm asking you to give me reasons why speedchuck was your strongest scum read, especially relative to Jay.

I believe I talked about him, should've seen that in your ISO. Sorry for being a little snarky but I'm headed to bed and not in the mood to relitigate a case against somebody I no longer have strong suspicions about. And the frustrating thing is I'm pretty sure you're town so it's frustrating that you can't find me so we can go catch bad guys together. So we can revisit this tomorrow when I have more energy.

[Sloonei]

Apologies, but I was only looking for your posts regarding Jay in that ISO. However, my questions are here are meant to be about why you specifically vote for speedchuck rather than Jay, because from what I saw you had every reason to vote for Jay but only ended up moving to him because you preferred the voters against him to the voters against speedchuck. I want to know how your thoughts developed during the day phase, if that helps.

[Jackofhearts2005]

How about Dom? He's a great lynch, am I right?

If the deadline was in five seconds I'd vote for Dom.

No hesitation in supporting Dom's lynch. I remain opposed to the idea of lynching malakim.

Sloonei, you may have already covered this but I have real problems with this assumption.

What I've noticed with traditional distancing is that a lot of scum like to keep their suspicious partners as "suspects."

This means if the town is hunting for 2 baddies, putting a teammate 3rd from the bottom in your rainbow. This means saying that you'll vote for a teammate or that they're the best option but ultimately not voting for them.

Why do you think Jay is not doing the later to Mal? Jimmy says he'd lynch Mal now if it was EOD but no matter how many times he was pushed, he refused to actually do so.

That screams "scumbuddies" to me.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I regret not pursuing colonialbob more over the last couple of days. I never heard a good argument in favor of him being town and I haven't changed my mind on him. Digging through Jay Mountain only strengthened my read. Does anybody have an argument for colonialbob to be town?

According to himself he was one of the main forces in restarting the Jay lynch.

Dubious and borderline irrelevant given my concern that Jay was primed for a bus.
where has he made this bold claim?

I doubt the realism of your theory when there were two players with 3-5 votes each and Jay was lagging at third place.

Why bussing him at all?

Strongly agreed.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I don't care what you'll all say about that "mislynch" episode, but the fact is: Epi's post was all about lynching him (sure, mislynch was implied, but even EPI who is sure of his own towniness didn't use that word....), LC responded by using "lynch" too, because LC believes Epi would be a lynching not a mislynch. If Jack really believed Epi was scum, then lynching him wouldn't be a mislynch.

... Jack has a lot of other question marks around him. ...

Quin seems town.

Epi's accusation was not that LC was trying to lynch him and he'd flip scum. His accusation was that LC was trying to mislynch him. Also, I use this word as a townie when talking about other people.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 59#p370259
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 46#p335046
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 59#p339059

Fake.


What other question marks?


No, Quin seems incredibly bad. Why do you think he looks good?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I wanna do cbob and Jack before I go to sleep.

That's what she said.

[Quin]

I might be biased but I think I look town.

[Jackofhearts2005]

you know what I like this night phase, Jack hasn't shut up. This is a good thing.

It's the weekend.

[Sloonei]

A janitor in this game. Very interesting.

Though I suspect the Martian is involved with that. Too many secrets.

Going to bed now, will poke back after some sleep.

The surprise and unawareness of the nightkill mechanics in this game malakim displayed here appear genuine and believable to me. I think he's a townie who believed for a fleeting moment that we had a janitor in this game, or that the nightkill was carried out by Olympus Mons. If he was scum he would have been clued into their target and would presumably be aware of his team's full complement of abilities.

[Sloonei]

I might be biased but I think I look town.

I'm also biased, but Epi looks more town.

[Sloonei]

How about Dom? He's a great lynch, am I right?

If the deadline was in five seconds I'd vote for Dom.

No hesitation in supporting Dom's lynch. I remain opposed to the idea of lynching malakim.

Sloonei, you may have already covered this but I have real problems with this assumption.

What I've noticed with traditional distancing is that a lot of scum like to keep their suspicious partners as "suspects."

This means if the town is hunting for 2 baddies, putting a teammate 3rd from the bottom in your rainbow. This means saying that you'll vote for a teammate or that they're the best option but ultimately not voting for them.

Why do you think Jay is not doing the later to Mal? Jimmy says he'd lynch Mal now if it was EOD but no matter how many times he was pushed, he refused to actually do so.

That screams "scumbuddies" to me.

I agree. I just disagree that malakim is the likely teammate. Sig and colonialbob look like better choices to me, and I'm also open to DrWilgy.

[Quin]

How about Dom? He's a great lynch, am I right?

If the deadline was in five seconds I'd vote for Dom.

No hesitation in supporting Dom's lynch. I remain opposed to the idea of lynching malakim.

Sloonei, you may have already covered this but I have real problems with this assumption.

What I've noticed with traditional distancing is that a lot of scum like to keep their suspicious partners as "suspects."

This means if the town is hunting for 2 baddies, putting a teammate 3rd from the bottom in your rainbow. This means saying that you'll vote for a teammate or that they're the best option but ultimately not voting for them.

Why do you think Jay is not doing the later to Mal? Jimmy says he'd lynch Mal now if it was EOD but no matter how many times he was pushed, he refused to actually do so.

That screams "scumbuddies" to me.

I agree. I just disagree that malakim is the likely teammate. Sig and colonialbob look like better choices to me, and I'm also open to DrWilgy.

I don't think Wilgy is bad. He seemed like a genuine lynch target of 3J's. I think he was the first to give Wilgy serious attention which is already unnecessary if they're teammates. His posts don't appear as if he ever let Wilgy off the hook, either; there are various prods, a GTH bad read and an ISO.

That Wilgy ISO was one of four he did at the time. He also did ISO's of speedchuck, colonialbob and malakim. He gives a definitive read on all of them, except for malakim. That's a bad look. If they're teammates, 3J's ISO gives him some leverage to not vote for malakim if he ever became a top lynch candidate. He doesn't discuss malakim after the ISO except to say he wouldn't vote for him today and that he looked good in legacy.

I looked at his ISO's outside of that time period. He also neglects a read on Eloh at the end of her ISO, but he was already on her at the time and didn't let up after. I don't think he'd consciously or unconsciously leave out conclusions on 2 teammates ISO's, so my thought process has taken a hit. If one of them is more likely to be bad based on this, it's malakim.

[Jackofhearts2005]

How about Dom? He's a great lynch, am I right?

If the deadline was in five seconds I'd vote for Dom.

No hesitation in supporting Dom's lynch. I remain opposed to the idea of lynching malakim.

Sloonei, you may have already covered this but I have real problems with this assumption.

What I've noticed with traditional distancing is that a lot of scum like to keep their suspicious partners as "suspects."

This means if the town is hunting for 2 baddies, putting a teammate 3rd from the bottom in your rainbow. This means saying that you'll vote for a teammate or that they're the best option but ultimately not voting for them.

Why do you think Jay is not doing the later to Mal? Jimmy says he'd lynch Mal now if it was EOD but no matter how many times he was pushed, he refused to actually do so.

That screams "scumbuddies" to me.

I agree. I just disagree that malakim is the likely teammate. Sig and colonialbob look like better choices to me, and I'm also open to DrWilgy.

Why do you disagree?

Why was Jimmy after Mesk so hard if a townie Mal lynch would have been just as good for him?

[Sloonei]

How about Dom? He's a great lynch, am I right?

If the deadline was in five seconds I'd vote for Dom.

No hesitation in supporting Dom's lynch. I remain opposed to the idea of lynching malakim.

Sloonei, you may have already covered this but I have real problems with this assumption.

What I've noticed with traditional distancing is that a lot of scum like to keep their suspicious partners as "suspects."

This means if the town is hunting for 2 baddies, putting a teammate 3rd from the bottom in your rainbow. This means saying that you'll vote for a teammate or that they're the best option but ultimately not voting for them.

Why do you think Jay is not doing the later to Mal? Jimmy says he'd lynch Mal now if it was EOD but no matter how many times he was pushed, he refused to actually do so.

That screams "scumbuddies" to me.

I agree. I just disagree that malakim is the likely teammate. Sig and colonialbob look like better choices to me, and I'm also open to DrWilgy.

Why do you disagree?

Why was Jimmy after Mesk so hard if a townie Mal lynch would have been just as good for him?

I just gave one of my reasons for reading Mal as town in the first of my three consecutive posts above.

I think you're exaggerating Jay's role in the Mesk lynch. I could be misremembering, but as I recall he was largely a follower on the bandwagon. He said more about Mesk than others, but only because we were making him talk the most. He seized the Mesk wagon because it existed. He was saving himself, not Dom.

[Sloonei]

How about Dom? He's a great lynch, am I right?

If the deadline was in five seconds I'd vote for Dom.

No hesitation in supporting Dom's lynch. I remain opposed to the idea of lynching malakim.

Sloonei, you may have already covered this but I have real problems with this assumption.

What I've noticed with traditional distancing is that a lot of scum like to keep their suspicious partners as "suspects."

This means if the town is hunting for 2 baddies, putting a teammate 3rd from the bottom in your rainbow. This means saying that you'll vote for a teammate or that they're the best option but ultimately not voting for them.

Why do you think Jay is not doing the later to Mal? Jimmy says he'd lynch Mal now if it was EOD but no matter how many times he was pushed, he refused to actually do so.

That screams "scumbuddies" to me.

I agree. I just disagree that malakim is the likely teammate. Sig and colonialbob look like better choices to me, and I'm also open to DrWilgy.

I don't think Wilgy is bad. He seemed like a genuine lynch target of 3J's. I think he was the first to give Wilgy serious attention which is already unnecessary if they're teammates. His posts don't appear as if he ever let Wilgy off the hook, either; there are various prods, a GTH bad read and an ISO.

That Wilgy ISO was one of four he did at the time. He also did ISO's of speedchuck, colonialbob and malakim. He gives a definitive read on all of them, except for malakim. That's a bad look. If they're teammates, 3J's ISO gives him some leverage to not vote for malakim if he ever became a top lynch candidate. He doesn't discuss malakim after the ISO except to say he wouldn't vote for him today and that he looked good in legacy.

I looked at his ISO's outside of that time period. He also neglects a read on Eloh at the end of her ISO, but he was already on her at the time and didn't let up after. I don't think he'd consciously or unconsciously leave out conclusions on 2 teammates ISO's, so my thought process has taken a hit. If one of them is more likely to be bad based on this, it's malakim.

did you read the two ginormous posts I made tonight? or at least skim them?

[Sloonei]

How about Dom? He's a great lynch, am I right?

If the deadline was in five seconds I'd vote for Dom.

No hesitation in supporting Dom's lynch. I remain opposed to the idea of lynching malakim.

Sloonei, you may have already covered this but I have real problems with this assumption.

What I've noticed with traditional distancing is that a lot of scum like to keep their suspicious partners as "suspects."

This means if the town is hunting for 2 baddies, putting a teammate 3rd from the bottom in your rainbow. This means saying that you'll vote for a teammate or that they're the best option but ultimately not voting for them.

Why do you think Jay is not doing the later to Mal? Jimmy says he'd lynch Mal now if it was EOD but no matter how many times he was pushed, he refused to actually do so.

That screams "scumbuddies" to me.

I agree. I just disagree that malakim is the likely teammate. Sig and colonialbob look like better choices to me, and I'm also open to DrWilgy.

I don't think Wilgy is bad. He seemed like a genuine lynch target of 3J's. I think he was the first to give Wilgy serious attention which is already unnecessary if they're teammates. His posts don't appear as if he ever let Wilgy off the hook, either; there are various prods, a GTH bad read and an ISO.

That Wilgy ISO was one of four he did at the time. He also did ISO's of speedchuck, colonialbob and malakim. He gives a definitive read on all of them, except for malakim. That's a bad look. If they're teammates, 3J's ISO gives him some leverage to not vote for malakim if he ever became a top lynch candidate. He doesn't discuss malakim after the ISO except to say he wouldn't vote for him today and that he looked good in legacy.

I looked at his ISO's outside of that time period. He also neglects a read on Eloh at the end of her ISO, but he was already on her at the time and didn't let up after. I don't think he'd consciously or unconsciously leave out conclusions on 2 teammates ISO's, so my thought process has taken a hit. If one of them is more likely to be bad based on this, it's malakim.

did you read the two ginormous posts I made tonight? or at least skim them?

[Quin]

No.

[Quin]

I will, but I haven't had much interest in this game today. And I'm walking out the door to go out right now.

[Sloonei]

No.

I explained my suspects in way too much detail there, but I also largely ignored Jay's Day 4 ISOs because I'm viewing them as pure, unfiltered wifom. I did make the same observation as you that wilgy was the only target who he offered a definitive read on, though. I would expect Jay to want to bus a teammate or two, and I would likewise expect a teammate or two to want to bus Jay.
colonialbob's interactions fit this model best of anyone, in my opinion. They sort of hovered around one another on Days 2 & 3, without ever really delivering any criticism of one another. Jay labeled bob as "not a town read" after I came up with my initial Bob case, but that suspicion fell completely off the map afterwards. Until Day 4, when suddenly bob was apparently highly confident in Jay's badness; confident enough to attack another player (DDL) for appearing to defend Jay, but somehow not confident enough to vote for him on his own. Jay, meanwhile, offered an ISO that was far more critical of bob than he had been prior and even made one point in particular that was directly opposed to a stance he had taken earlier in the game, when presumably BaddieJimmyJay would have wanted to keep his partners out of harm's way. I could not help but sense a shift in the way each of them approached one another on Night 3/Day 4.

Sig was the low-posting suspect who Jay repeatedly named, but never pursued in any serious manner. Dom/malakim and sprityo/dunya were both players who Jay actively tried to lynch at one point or another.

I agree with much of what you have to say about wilgy, but I do not disregard the possibility that the two of them as partners conspired to maximize the distance between them in the thread. It would have been fairly elaborate, but that's not something I would put past either of them.

[Sloonei]

I will, but I haven't had much interest in this game today. And I'm walking out the door to go out right now.

I don't blame you, so I gave the abridged version.

[Sloonei]

That I've come up with colonialbob as my primary suspect on two different occasions and based upon two totally separate lines of investigation in this game is borderline overwhelming. At this point I'll be shocked if he's town and I'll owe him a tremendous apology.

[dunya]

I don't care what you'll all say about that "mislynch" episode, but the fact is: Epi's post was all about lynching him (sure, mislynch was implied, but even EPI who is sure of his own towniness didn't use that word....), LC responded by using "lynch" too, because LC believes Epi would be a lynching not a mislynch. If Jack really believed Epi was scum, then lynching him wouldn't be a mislynch.

... Jack has a lot of other question marks around him. ...

Quin seems town.

Epi's accusation was not that LC was trying to lynch him and he'd flip scum. His accusation was that LC was trying to mislynch him. Also, I use this word as a townie when talking about other people.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 59#p370259
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 46#p335046
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 59#p339059

Fake.


What other question marks?


No, Quin seems incredibly bad. Why do you think he looks good?

That's what I said That's what I have been saying since the first day

Those examples make sense in context, of course we've all used the word mislynch. The example I was referring to, when calling Epi lynch (your suspect's lynch) a mislynch, is not. The fact you pulled those examples to justify your post here is kinda looking worse on you imo.

[colonialbob]

That I've come up with colonialbob as my primary suspect on two different occasions and based upon two totally separate lines of investigation in this game is borderline overwhelming. At this point I'll be shocked if he's town and I'll owe him a tremendous apology.

"You're not Nightblue."

[dunya]

scenario 1:

Long Con
5
29%
Voters: Elohcin, colonialbob, nutella, Sloonei, Kylemii


nutella
6
35%
Voters: sprityo, speedchuck, Jackofhearts2005, Long Con, Quin, Dragon D. Luffy
Quin

speedchuck + Jack mafia team with nutella (and Jay). one of Jack and speed is Sutter Buttes imo.

it would have been 5/5 at the end of the day and according to Marmot, no lynch is the result of a tie at the end of Day 1.

Percentage I think is possible: high percentage.

Going through alternative scenarios....

[dunya]

scenario 2:

Long Con
5
29%
Voters: Elohcin, colonialbob, nutella, Sloonei, Kylemii


nutella
6
35%
Voters: sprityo, speedchuck, Jackofhearts2005, Long Con, Quin, Dragon D. Luffy
Quin

one of Elohcin, colonialbob, nutella, Sloonei, Kylemii are Everest.

it would have been 6/6 at the end of the day and according to Marmot, no lynch is the result of a tie at the end of Day 1.

Percentage I think is possible: likely, but less likely imo. Why? Because both scenarios so for dont clear nutella without question to me.

Jay was one of the most vocal -- okay "nutella is 100% town" after end of day 1 - which is weird. Even weirder is that there was no nutella death till now (I hate to be that person but, yeah). Nutella's reaction to surviving Day 1 was....not as authentic as I imagined someone who really thought it was a done deal. Night 1, Night 2, Night 3 -- no nutella kill. They killed Daisy instead.

Going through alternative scenarios....

[dunya]

scenario 3:

Long Con
5
29%
Voters: Elohcin, colonialbob, nutella, Sloonei, Kylemii


nutella
6
35%
Voters: sprityo, speedchuck, Jackofhearts2005, Long Con, Quin, Dragon D. Luffy
Quin

nutella is Aconcagua and survived the first attempt on her life.

Percentage I think is possible: highly unlikely. I definitely feel one of two no night kills was defended by Aconcagua.

Going through alternative scenarios....

[dunya]

I'm sorry to drag this up again, but nutella's eod 4 reactions towards Jay was clear bussing to me imo. So I want to see how much weight my theory holds. Feel free to correct any misinformation I have gathered.

[dunya]

wait I have an idea. [mention]Marmot[/mention], does the little mountain who hides with Sutter Buttes have to vote along side whoever Sutter Buttes voted for?

[Jackofhearts2005]

That I've come up with colonialbob as my primary suspect on two different occasions and based upon two totally separate lines of investigation in this game is borderline overwhelming. At this point I'll be shocked if he's town and I'll owe him a tremendous apology.

"You're not Nightblue."

*powers up ring*

There are no traitors in the Justice League.

[dunya]

Also Dunya, when you find my best town game, let me know. I'd like to make a point about it. If you go that far.

Phenon - 3P(anti-town tho)
Gatsby - Town
Blue Velvet - Dog (town)
Search for Quin - Town
Pirate - Scum
Night Vale -0 Scum
SF2 - town
Pokemon - town
Elemental - LMS
Chicka Chicka 123 - LMS

In case anyone wants it. Full syndicate history. I have another site's worth of old history, but we'll ignore that.

Your town games were all considerably shorter than your mafia games. I can't really decide.

Your performance in Pirates and even Night Vale are heavy influences in theory-chuck. I'm scared of what you can accomplish. Thanks for those. I can go into your iso here with a good background of you.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I regret not pursuing colonialbob more over the last couple of days. I never heard a good argument in favor of him being town and I haven't changed my mind on him. Digging through Jay Mountain only strengthened my read. Does anybody have an argument for colonialbob to be town?

If you don't ignore ridiculously scummy behavior, there are well more suspects that deserve immediate lynch than there are remaining baddies. Bob is not one of them.

I don't particularly see Bob teamed with Jimmy.

I certainly don't see him teamed with my suspects Speedchuck and Sloonei.

[Kylemii]

I'm sorry to drag this up again, but nutella's eod 4 reactions towards Jay was clear bussing to me imo. So I want to see how much weight my theory holds. Feel free to correct any misinformation I have gathered.

day 1 happened before any night powers were active yet so many options weren't on the table.