U-Pick Mafia Vol 1 - Game Over

[Golden]

It's funny Jay said he doesn't want to do any leading in this game...yet look where he's led us and backed off.

The thing about jay is that he speaks with authority even if he’s just saying ‘can I get fries with that’ so he can easily create the lemming effect.

He’s like the opposite of me. I have to work extremely hard to get people to come around.

[novaselinenever]

This is such a weak argument. The probability of the first one is much higher. And it's not only about the probability of lynching scum or not. With 3 lynches, you get 2 additional flips in one phase. That is great.

no it's not. it's the same reason why a 24/24 game favors mafia imo.

the greatest power town has is time. ya'll might be bored and thinking you want this game over already, but people become easier to read as the game goes on. having 3 independent lynches brings us a lot closer and a lot more info than 3 lynches at the same time on day 2.

What do you mean by " we need to be talking about people who have no pressure on them too"? Aren't you capable of doing that while having the possibility of lynching 3 of them?

yes, but when everyone is a lynching option, focus is scattered between 30 possibilities.

> Focus in our discussions

What does this even mean? This is bullshit. Yes, we are 30 players but just because we have 8 players on the lynch platform, doesn't mean we should spend the time talking only about them. That is a waste of a phase.

I didn't say we should "only talk about them" -- you're "projecting" and according to my trusty friends, that's a scumtell.

Well this game isn't a 24/24 one. Time is great, a lynch is better.

Who's "projecting" now? I'm not bored and I don't want this game over already. I can't speak for the other who voted #6 but I don't think boredom is a reason.

Those 3 independent lynches comes with 3 night phases that are baddies greatest power just like the lynch is Town's. What's so bad about gathering the equivalent of that in one phase and giving them only 1 night phase?

What is so bad about a scattered focus? You've been repeating it without explaining why it's bad. What if the people in your bad list aren't option for the lynch? What then?

If there are 30 possibilities, can't you just focus on the person you already suspect?

You did imply it. You're using it as a justification of why one option is better than another. That is the same thing.

[dunya]

picking out suspects is like picking out what to wear on my night out

meow



so hard

[novaselinenever]

Nice rug.

[dunya]

It's funny Jay said he doesn't want to do any leading in this game...yet look where he's led us and backed off.

The thing about jay is that he speaks with authority even if he’s just saying ‘can I get fries with that’ so he can easily create the lemming effect.

He’s like the opposite of me. I have to work extremely hard to get people to come around.

dude, i know about the struggle of gaining a following. when MacDougall reviewed his fav mafia players on RYM he said something that hit home. i have great instincts and i was like second on his list of best players (eat that RYMers, he said I'm probably the smartest player yea woop woop) ( ) but really hard to explain how i get my reads so people aren't swayed by my cases. i still struggle to convince people.

[Turnip Head]

Hello from 7 pages behind

[dunya]

Nice rug.

thanks! I got it from a friend who wanted to throw it out cos she was moving. I was like, can I buy it please? think I paid like 50 euros for it only.

[dunya]

Hello from 7 pages behind

I've been waiting for you.

[Turnip Head]

Option 1 will probably lead to everyone's secondmost suspect getting lynched
Option 2 sounds like a fun focused minigame
Option 6 sounds like the darkest timeline

The rest are for scaredycats

[motel room]

JEESUS

[motel room]

I'll deal with you lot tomorrow, fuck

[Turnip Head]

lmao

[dunya]

I'll deal with you lot tomorrow, fuck

you sure? cos tomorrow you'll wake up with a bigger headache, i assure you.

just skim. honestly the statistical analysis that ensued for like 5 pages isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. just some smartie pants dick slinging competition of who does numbers better (DO I GET A BIG MAC NOW?!!!)

[Golden]

I'll deal with you lot tomorrow, fuck

you sure? cos tomorrow you'll wake up with a bigger headache, i assure you.

just skim. honestly the statistical analysis that ensued for like 5 pages isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. just some smartie pants dick slinging competition of who does numbers better (DO I GET A BIG MAC NOW?!!!)

You get a happy meal

[Golden]

[mention]spacedaisy[/mention] you should seriously reconsider your vote.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The numbers cannot account for the contextual benefit of just getting one. Even if it might not seem pertinent numerically, it means everything in terms of generating reads.

^This. This is the point I've decided to care about most now. And it's steering me away from 6 at the moment, I think....

Nothing screws a civilian team more than having no interactions to judge. Gotta get that first one or nothing else matters. At least in this case with two teams we have more chances to get one right either way. I freaking hope.

but then you go and make a point that favors 6 again. ugh this is hard

Those were the same point, both in favor of #6. Indeed they say the same thing. I was expanding and restating.

[dunya]

The numbers cannot account for the contextual benefit of just getting one. Even if it might not seem pertinent numerically, it means everything in terms of generating reads.

^This. This is the point I've decided to care about most now. And it's steering me away from 6 at the moment, I think....

Nothing screws a civilian team more than having no interactions to judge. Gotta get that first one or nothing else matters. At least in this case with two teams we have more chances to get one right either way. I freaking hope.

but then you go and make a point that favors 6 again. ugh this is hard

Those were the same point, both in favor of #6. Indeed they say the same thing. I was expanding and restating.

ohhhhhh did we catch a scumslip

[dunya]

it's such a nice, sunny day. won't you all come out to play?

[juliets]

I have 7 pages to catch up this morning. I've read the beginning of the debate about option #6 and my initial thought is lynching 3 at once is not the same as lynching 3 times in a row. When you Lynch 3 times in a row you have the benefit of multiple days and have a lot of time for discussion, plus if you lynch a mafia you can then analyze their interactions with other people which I think increases the chances you can then get another mafia. You can't do that with 3 at once, I'll read all the arguments though before I vote.

[Marmot]

It's literally mathematically provable that it favors the town. Idk what Golden is on about man.

Marmot and I literally mathematically proved this is false. This is why I don't like your townieness, because you seemed to decide this was a fact based on... what exactly? This isn't the puzzle-solving nutella I know.

I did what?

[dunya]

what's funny, as I was fishing through Mountain Mafia for some Eloh comps, is I came across a post I made about Jay:

"I was pinged by Jay's lack of focus tbh and the fact he didn't direct a single suspicion towards me. That's very unlike him. He usually kills my game when I'm townie, and frustrates me till I start dreaming of rage quitting. :P When I named him as a suspect, I hoped it would trigger a different kind of response where I could be sure of his towniness, as I have been in past games. How will Jay respond? That is a huge tell all in itself."

isn't that funny. he's trying to kill my game here.

[Marmot]

what's funny, as I was fishing through Mountain Mafia for some Eloh comps, is I came across a post I made about Jay:

"I was pinged by Jay's lack of focus tbh and the fact he didn't direct a single suspicion towards me. That's very unlike him. He usually kills my game when I'm townie, and frustrates me till I start dreaming of rage quitting. :P When I named him as a suspect, I hoped it would trigger a different kind of response where I could be sure of his towniness, as I have been in past games. How will Jay respond? That is a huge tell all in itself."

isn't that funny. he's trying to kill my game here.

That's cuz he's on the other team see

[dunya]

fishing for similarities

I'm actually not having a jolly ol time. I'm sick. I still have work this week...which is good with Christmas coming, but I have a cold, so not fun. Every time I read a page even when caught up, there is another page to read. And when I go to sleep, I wake up like 10 pages behind. I cannot think straight 'cause I'm sick. Went to the store to get meds and left my phone, that's how much I can't think straight. Sloon is being nit picky with me. I think he expects more from me than I can intellectually give. I'm not an intellectual like so many of you here. I play for fun and to try to keep my mind as sharp as possible as I age. Did I mention I'm sick and feel like crap. My meds didn't even seem to help.

I'm trying to guve enough effort so y'all don't suspect me. But I am usually lynched pretty early in games because I'm suspected. When I flip civ, people are confused. When I flip baddie they are all self congratulatory. Because no matter what my role, I'm always suspected by a few players early on. Y'all just need to leave me alone and go find a baddie.

Placing a vote on Jack. I'm really not sure how I feel about Eloh. I will say that regardless of alignment I disapprove of her approach. If you're not going to read everything, don't act surprised when you don't understand what someone is referring to.

Fuck this. All Im doing is reading and responding, reading and responding. I'm about to give up. Y'all want too much out of this old lady. I ain't got time for this crap.

these stood out for me.

[dunya]

what's funny, as I was fishing through Mountain Mafia for some Eloh comps, is I came across a post I made about Jay:

"I was pinged by Jay's lack of focus tbh and the fact he didn't direct a single suspicion towards me. That's very unlike him. He usually kills my game when I'm townie, and frustrates me till I start dreaming of rage quitting. :P When I named him as a suspect, I hoped it would trigger a different kind of response where I could be sure of his towniness, as I have been in past games. How will Jay respond? That is a huge tell all in itself."

isn't that funny. he's trying to kill my game here.

That's cuz he's on the other team see

i seez what youz did there

[colonialbob]

people arguing statistics and how likely it is we'll vote for scum if we lynch 3 people...how about how likely it is the randomizer will put at least 1 or 2 scum in the pool of 8 for us. we are 30 players, we need some focus in our discussions and need to be talking about people who have no pressure on them too. I am sticking with option 2.

This is such a weak argument. The probability of the first one is much higher. And it's not only about the probability of lynching scum or not. With 3 lynches, you get 2 additional flips in one phase. That is great.

What do you mean by " we need to be talking about people who have no pressure on them too"? Aren't you capable of doing that while having the possibility of lynching 3 of them?

> Focus in our discussions

What does this even mean? This is bullshit. Yes, we are 30 players but just because we have 8 players on the lynch platform, doesn't mean we should spend the time talking only about them. That is a waste of a phase.

How many people did we talk about yesterday?

[colonialbob]

people arguing statistics and how likely it is we'll vote for scum if we lynch 3 people...how about how likely it is the randomizer will put at least 1 or 2 scum in the pool of 8 for us. we are 30 players, we need some focus in our discussions and need to be talking about people who have no pressure on them too. I am sticking with option 2.

I did the math earlier (n.b. math is singular, not plural)

It's upwards of 90% there's at least 1.

[dunya]

First of all, I only said I wasn't reading all of Day 0. Second, I talk about how crazy long the thread is as a civ or a baddie. You are just afraid of me because I am a good baddie. My record of winning as a baddie proves that. This doesn't make it right for people to automatically assume I am bad. Give me the benefit of the doubt, man. The game just began. What specifically have I done that makes you think I am bad already? (Oh, and I don't lurk. I leave up the tab to the thread at all times.)

is this not arrogance, Quin?

I think players are having a hard time understanding your confidence on me, Sir. I really think you ought to take a step back and humble yourself a bit. I know you used to be able to read me really well the first couple years we were playing Mafia together. But I think I have gotten better and have proven several times that I can fool you whether that be that I am bad and you think I am civ, or that I am civ and you think I am bad. And...I think others are realizing that you might not be able to discern my alignment so easily anymore. I am just waiting for you to realize it.

It's okay, everyone ALWAYS thinks I'm bad. I get lynched as a civ a WHOLE BUNCH b/c people think I'm always bad. But I am one of the top 2 or 3 winners as a mafia. Go check out the hall of fame stuff. Its true.

[colonialbob]

I have 7 pages to catch up this morning. I've read the beginning of the debate about option #6 and my initial thought is lynching 3 at once is not the same as lynching 3 times in a row. When you Lynch 3 times in a row you have the benefit of multiple days and have a lot of time for discussion, plus if you lynch a mafia you can then analyze their interactions with other people which I think increases the chances you can then get another mafia. You can't do that with 3 at once, I'll read all the arguments though before I vote.

No need you already grokked the important bit. A lot of the rest is just fun with numbers that isn't really important in the bigger scheme of things

[Turnip Head]

I'll go ahead and throw some town cred Elo's way for now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In case anybody is wondering, assuming two teams of 6 mafia (just a broad guess, but seems reasonable) there's a 99.3% chance that at least 1 out of the 8 will be mafia. 93% there's at least 2. (That's without assuming anything about who get a killed tonight)

I don’t think two teams of six is likely. Two teams of five is a safer guess. I grant the setup is unpredictable, but 12 mafia members would make things pretty goofy. That’d be like 16-6-6 or so. Looks like a very improbable civilian win.

You should reconsider the numbers at 5-5. Also, in this scenario, sustaining the ratio at 8 players in the poll would require about 5-2–1 without considering indies.

1 mafioso would be a net loss. 2 might even be a net loss.

[dunya]

I did the math earlier (n.b. math is singular, not plural)

say that to the British

[dunya]

I'll go ahead and throw some town cred Elo's way for now.

ugh wannabe spidey is back

[Turnip Head]

I'll go ahead and throw some town cred Elo's way for now.

ugh wannabe spidey is back

[dunya]

i guess the 3 lynch vs the 1 lynch arguments and risks depend on a person's personality too. i'm notoriously not a huge risk taker. jay is notoriously a risk taker. we did the personality quiz. juliets was like me. i don't remember who bet all their money away, but whoever was in discord at the time probably remembers this.

[Lunalee]

@wolbre04, @speedchuck, and @Spacedaisy all voted for #6 without saying why or saying anything at all. given the amount of talking-out-loud I did upon deciding on it, I find their votes pretty dang suspicious.

Oops, I just did the same thing. 6 just seems like the best option. The more lynch-flips we can get in one day, the more data we'll have for riddling out the rest of the scum. Also I wouldn't mine if there were less people in this game. It might make things a little easier.

[Lunalee]

Spoiler: show

Simple scenario regarding the maths. I will make some assumptions on this. One player will die each night, and that one player who will die flips civilian. Also, that there are two teams of 4 mafia each, and that all independent players count as civilian here, leaving 8 mafia and 23 civilian roles in the game.


SCENARIO 1 - We lynch 3 players in one day.

We lynch three players tomorrow. Assuming there are 30 players alive after Night 1, the following odds result from this.

• Lynching 0 mafia = 37.9%
• Lynching 1 mafia = 45.5%
• Lynching 2 mafia = 15.2%
• Lynching 3 mafia = 1.4%

SCENARIO 2 - We lynch 1 player tomorrow ( I won't get into the math of the other options now).

We lynch one player each of the next three days, allowing two nightkills to happen in the process (2 more dead civilians over those three lynches). The following odds result over that span.

• Lynching 0 mafia = 36.3%
• Lynching 1 mafia = 46.0%
• Lynching 2 mafia = 16.2%
• Lynching 3 mafia = 1.5%

Addendum: yes this requires assumptions. The odds are pretty similar, slightly edging having the tri-fecta lynch. Additionally, Scenario 2 requires that two players are nightkilled by the time the third player is lynched, adding two additional deaths to the toll.

One comment on your analysis Marmot, we can choose who to lynch. It's not random like your calculations assume. We have some pretty good reads at this point, and I believe we can get one if not two scum lynched by using option 6.

[Epignosis]

I'll use numbers in your 5 vs 3 situation, Jay, since that's your 'town-leaning' one. I can't possibility demonstrate it with the complex numbers required for 31 players.

You have 5 civilians. On day one, each has a 0.428 shot at being right about who a mafia is. If they need to find two mafia on that day, they have a 0.286 probability of successfully identifying a second one.

However, if you kill one at a 0.428 probability and allow a nightkill, ending at 4 v 2 the next day, your odds of catching the second mafia increase from 0.286 to 0.333

That's the most basic illustration I can provide to demonstrate how catching two mafia on one day rather than on consecutive days is less likely and provides lower odds for the civilians.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The numbers absolutely live on a curve, and depends on the numbers. I can't compute the numbers because I don't know exactly what is out there. What I can say is that it sits on a curve, so while odds might increase from 1 to 2, they'd dramatically drop from 2 to 3, because you are diluting civilians too far.

I have a 0.398 wOBA against left handed pitching, a 0.212 ISO, and a 0.534 slugging percentage. Do you know how useful that is in our current circumstances? It isn't. It apparently isn't even useful against Ty Blach, whom I've never recorded a hit against in twelve at-bats and have to face him in a pitcher's park today.

Do you know what else isn't helpful in these circumstances? Talking about five civilians when there are 29 people and six of them didn't vote yesterday.

[Epignosis]

I have many thoughts on number 6.

for me and a lot of people I think early game ends and the real game starts as soon as we've cracked that eggshell just a little and lynched our first mafia. triple-lynch could hypothetically do that for us, and at the same time help with narrowing the PoE a little bit.

however... that only happens if we can have our shit together tomorrow. with 3 players lynched there's a decent chance the mafia uses the opportunity to get rid of someone they don't want around, or saving their teammate who's in second or third place by voting or unvoting someone, which could lead to interesting votal analysis. if guided properly tomorrow we could use #6 to sweep away some inactives but that sort of thing would require a lot of cat herding.

worst reasonable scenario with #6 is 3 town lynches, mafia shenanigans may lead to town leader types getting lynched over others which benefits mafia, also gives us something to analyze though....

best reasonable scenario is we get one mafia out of it, maybe 2 if we're *extremely* lucky and the two players are on opposite teams but I think hoping for 1 is more realistic. if we catch even just one mafia tomorrow i think #6 would be worth it.

so I guess its... yeah. very high risk high reward. but I think even the risks can be educational. I agree that 6 goes much more smoothly with epignosis around.

There are two teams. I don't mind teammates trying to save teammates. They can vote out someone in the other lineup. We could ground into a double play here, or even better, find ourselves with an amazing triple play.

Did you know there have been 716 triple plays in the majors since 1876? Pretty rare stuff.

[juliets]

Ok, after reading back I'm still opposed to option 6 mostly based on the fact that it's not like lynching 3 people in a row because you have more behavior and information as you go along three days in a row that you don't have with 3 at once. I also was swayed by Golden's statistical analysis and Marmot's too though I didn't consider the point Luna brought up above.

I'm also wary of option 2 because I'm scared the people that would be randomly chosen would not be the ones we are finding most suspicious, though I admit colonial bob's stats re: the likelihood of us capturing a mafia in that group is significant. Maybe my wariness is not warranted but I need to think about it a little more.

I'm inclined right now toward option 1 so that's where I will vote for the time being. Someone - Long Con I think - said that is likely to result in our second choice getting lynched but I don't understand that. [mention]Long Con[/mention] would you explain how that works? Also, what are other arguments against option 1?

Charlie, lol, I feel good that I was right to believe in you. I'm sorry you don't have a power if you wanted one but selfishly, I watched you in GOC as a civ and it was impressive so I'm happy to have you confirmed and providing insights.

[Long Con]

Wasn't me, Jules.

For option 6, shouldn't we count the other evil team as Civ in the the calculations because they will want to lynch the opposite team? You know what I mean?

[Turnip Head]

For Day 2 I am a baseball. My objective is to get hit by Charlie Blackmon and hopefully score some field goals for our tribe.



My role metamorphs again on Night 2.

[Quin]

Wasn't me, Jules.

For option 6, shouldn't we count the other evil team as Civ in the the calculations because they will want to lynch the opposite team? You know what I mean?

Not if you're a civilian

[Quin]

First of all, I only said I wasn't reading all of Day 0. Second, I talk about how crazy long the thread is as a civ or a baddie. You are just afraid of me because I am a good baddie. My record of winning as a baddie proves that. This doesn't make it right for people to automatically assume I am bad. Give me the benefit of the doubt, man. The game just began. What specifically have I done that makes you think I am bad already? (Oh, and I don't lurk. I leave up the tab to the thread at all times.)

is this not arrogance, Quin?

I think players are having a hard time understanding your confidence on me, Sir. I really think you ought to take a step back and humble yourself a bit. I know you used to be able to read me really well the first couple years we were playing Mafia together. But I think I have gotten better and have proven several times that I can fool you whether that be that I am bad and you think I am civ, or that I am civ and you think I am bad. And...I think others are realizing that you might not be able to discern my alignment so easily anymore. I am just waiting for you to realize it.

It's okay, everyone ALWAYS thinks I'm bad. I get lynched as a civ a WHOLE BUNCH b/c people think I'm always bad. But I am one of the top 2 or 3 winners as a mafia. Go check out the hall of fame stuff. Its true.

I perceive this as arrogance.

[Quin]

It's funny Jay said he doesn't want to do any leading in this game...yet look where he's led us and backed off.

The thing about jay is that he speaks with authority even if he’s just saying ‘can I get fries with that’ so he can easily create the lemming effect.

He’s like the opposite of me. I have to work extremely hard to get people to come around.

And nobody listens to me even when I'm a confirmed townie.

[dunya]

You people are insane. But I’m more insane for thinking that JJJ vs. dunya is mafia on mafia.

What do you see that tells you this?

Tinfoil.

first post, a little confusing. he thinks we're mafia / mafia, as in w/w, as in distancing or does he think we're both mafia of different mafia teams? tinfoil is suspicion that seems unnecessary because you have a reason to town read a person, but there's like a nagging voice that tries to make you think no, he could be scum. so what's the tinfoil here? why are we likely mafia on mafia? feels like a rather baseless thing to say.

Gotta say I agree with dunya here, although I don't recall what the original disagreement here looked like. Not saying it's never happened, but handpicking who the scum are based on the deliberately weird role they submitted would be a supremely strange mod decision and out of line with at least every game I've played.

if there's one person in this argument between me and Golden who looks like they could have TMI and came in and tried to buddy up to me, it's ColinIsCool. Now that's tinfoil for ya.

someone mentioned they didn't like Colin's vote on wolbre, but I actually credit him for his read and explanation of why he didn't like the role. it makes sense what usually when you're searching for someone, it's done via a night action through the host where you send in a name of someone who's likely to be who you are looking for, and they do the same, till you find each other. so yea, that was a genuine response.

now here's where things get interesting:

When presented with the theory that wolbre04 lied about needing to pursue a second boob as a means of furthering his boob-irrelevant win condition, all I can respond with is:


...why?


It's near impossible that someone else submitted the role for the second boob. I could see people saying they don't care who or what they are though (I got a few of those in my last sock heist) and then being assigned the other boob. Or it could be an item. I dunno.

It is near impossible that someone submitted the role, which makes it odd that he is supposed to seek it out. One boob is a player while the other boob is an object? I dunno. The boob logic doesn't add up there in a way that pleases me.

If he is lying about that, then what else is he lying about, daresay?

These are all wild theories. I just want people to talk about 'em.

first of all, i find the use of daresay a little awkward here. way too formal or something planted to make it sound like it's an original thought he just had and feels confident about maybe wolbre is lying.

now look at fast he dropped it after feeling he wasn't getting the reaction from people he expected:

It is near impossible that someone submitted the role

It's considerably less near impossible that someone signed up to play and told Mac to make up a role for them -- and he decided to create a second breast.

This would be the most bizarre, specific lie I have ever seen.

That certainly sounds plausible. It didn't occur to me until now at least, so thanks for the idea.

it just seems like Colin was holding onto a hot potato and wanted to get rid of it. colin already theorized that it could be possible there is a second boob person in the game, and he was questioning wolbre's authenticity because hunting for your missing part openly doesn't make sense when it's attached to seeking another player out (something I agree with, especially coming from different mafia backgrounds). and now when Jay mentions it as possible, it just becomes the "certainly plausible" theory.

something fishy there imo.

mental note: up intil 3.09pm yesterday, Colin was defending me and still not seeing the TMI potential in the arguments against me.

making a note of it because he planted a vote on me at the end of the day, and I'd like to see how organic that progression was.

Spoiler: show

Caught up through pg 16. As far as dunya knowing too much goes, is there any reason to actually think a scum would know if roles are randomized or not? They could guess or infer, maybe, but I don’t see the TMI potential there. I know it looks like I’m defending dunya at every step so if she’s bad this will bite me but that rings unsound to me.

I think either JJJ, dunya and Golden are either all town or all scum.

Mostly a gut thing. Dunya’s play reminds me of the exasperated scum I saw in Greece. I don’t buy into Golden’s characterization of her and think his take on me was belabored. JJJ just scares me generally. Don’t take this too seriously yet.

so, another weird little piling of me and jay and this time Golden too. we're either all scum, or all town. check that out.

exasperated scum in Ancient Greece? where was I "exasperated"? I think I played a pretty loose game there until I actually came back from Paris. I can't say I felt exasperated at any time, and as someone who shared BTSC with me, I find his description rather suspect. [mention]speedchuck[/mention] / [mention]Sloonei[/mention] - would you say I was an exasperated scum in Greece?

Furthermore, he went and explained why he thinks we're all scum when cBob asked him. he didn't tell us why we could all be town. a bit of a "mumble jumble" grouping. don't like it.

It is 11.20pm now on day 1. he parks a vote on Scotty for his tone being different than Ancient Greece:

Gonna park myself elsewhere for now, I find the 3P theory against wolbre compelling but, then again, this set-up is kind of fucked so he could be a ridiculous townie. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at least.

[VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

Scotty, your tone is very different from the civ I saw in AG. Would you care to respond? Additionally, I see a lot of you asking questions of other people, but what about your own reads? Who do you got?

again, another reminder for myself mostly to see how it moved off Scotty and led back to me.

now below is also a big trigger for me from Colin:

I think at least one of the persons complaining about the pace of the game/not knowing about things that have been discussed in great detail are scum. We saw people employ it as a strategy to great success in AG; it’s a great way to post without posting anything risky or engaging anybody in particular. As the game goes on, I implore the town to not buy it.

Sloonei and dunya and maybe even speed? Granted, they had pretty good reasons from time to time, but I am on red alert for it now.

where did I do that? little did everyone know but we were as clueless about stuff as everyone else. when I tried to push the theory that scum team wouldn't know if a 3p chose to align with them (something not explicitly denied in the OP and Jay wouldn't confirm or deny it), I knew one of the 2 leaders of Sparta or Athens would call me out on it. we were playing with the belief that whoever aligned with town, was revealed to the leader of that town faction.

so I'd like Colin to reveal to me where me and Sloonei (and maybe speed) posted about things that have been discussed in great detail in Ancient Greece, cos I call that an empty accusation.

It is 6.02PM on the second 48hrs of Day 1 and ColinIsCool has moved his vote to Elochin because he liked the case against her. I recall Colin was interested in nutella's case (that I made) and was waiting for her rebuttal. Colin never mentioned it again, though.

see below for proof of Colin's Eloh vote so we can keep track and see how that further progressed off of me:

I like the argument I've seen put forth against Elohcin.

[VOTE: ELOHCIN] aubergine

I like the argument I've seen put forth against Elohcin.

[VOTE: ELOHCIN] aubergine

mmmmmm I hate this post!! please elaborate on your thoughts colin

What’s there to hate about it? Elohcin’s posts ring a little false to me, and while she has some very good excuses, like I said I am wary of the “not reading the thread” thing. It’s not helpful if you’re town and I just saw it help secure a win in AG. I’m not caught up so I may change my vote but let me just say I find it very strange that you put me in the middle of a rainbow list and yet here your vote is on me...

nutella/Elo/Colin on the same scum team? possible.

He said Eloh's posts ring a little false. Then he said "she has some very good excuses". Then he said "wary of people not reading the thread". wishy washy fake much? and look there at the closing statement at some shade thrown nutella's way. convenient. very tidy. what's the likeliness of three scums on the same team bussing each other on day 1? *flashbacks of FE*

Okay, well...if I have to vote soon, I guess I do. I am playing a vote on Colin and it has nothing to do with him voting me personally, it has to do with him jumping on what he sees as a potential train without giving any reasons for his vote. Seems opportunistic.

For the record, I think nutella is good. And after reading dunya all day, I think she is good too.

In Ancient Greece, I am lynched for “placing an easy vote off-wagon.”

In U-Pick, I attract votes for “placing an easy vote on wagon.”

???

I find it revealing that colin is mentally making a note of what got him lynched in Ancient Greece and how he is almost self admitting to doing the opposite of that here. don't like this post.

and now...the good part:

My vote on Eloh was very flippant and not the end of my thinking. I can’t find the posts because I am on mobile. This is totally going to be called OMGUS, but I hate what I’ve seen from nutella in the last 10 or so pages, including the quoted above. I didn’t like her response to dunya putting on heat earlier either, and I am of course not buying her stance toward me. The rainbow list that seems to have been rendered useless 10 minutes after posting — what’s the point in that? No sir. No good.

he says his vote on Eloh was flippant. He says he hates nutella and her response to my case against her (finally acknowledging he read her rebuttal but it took him this long after nutella was conveniently distancing from him to mention it) and says her stance against him was fake, including her rainbow. this was posted at 12.50am which is a few mins mins away from eod.

Let’s make things even more exciting. I wonder what happens in a tie.

[VOTE: DUNYA] aubergine

he votes for dunya to make things exciting at 12.54am.

lizzyfacepalming.jpg

I'm stopping his ISO now.

I don't need to see "more".

[juliets]

Wasn't me, Jules.

For option 6, shouldn't we count the other evil team as Civ in the the calculations because they will want to lynch the opposite team? You know what I mean?

Well dang. It was someone...whoever you were can you tell me what you meant by we're likely to lynch our second choice?

And woe is me, I can't read Turnip's new color either. Turnip, for your next morph could you pick like purple maybe?

[ColinIsCool]

Colin looks worse too especially since he knows what bad dunya looks like from fairly recently with that abysmal vote on me -_-

I really don’t know what good dunya looks like though, you’ve been scum every game I’ve played here

[Turnip Head]

Wasn't me, Jules.

For option 6, shouldn't we count the other evil team as Civ in the the calculations because they will want to lynch the opposite team? You know what I mean?

Well dang. It was someone...whoever you were can you tell me what you meant by we're likely to lynch our second choice?

And woe is me, I can't read Turnip's new color either. Turnip, for your next morph could you pick like purple maybe?

Well I'm a baseball rn so honestly my writing should be all white with little red stitches

[Zephyrus]

If I may offer my opinion on all this polling discussion, I think that either option 1 or 6 are the best choice. Option 1 seems the safest option and probably best for scum not getting an advantage. Option 6, however, would offer lots of information about who was good and who was bad, which could be quite important. For the time being, I'll go with option 6, just because gaining that information is more important, especially with how many people are in the game.

[dunya]

If I may offer my opinion on all this polling discussion, I think that either option 1 or 6 are the best choice. Option 1 seems the safest option and probably best for scum not getting an advantage. Option 6, however, would offer lots of information about who was good and who was bad, which could be quite important. For the time being, I'll go with option 6, just because gaining that information is more important, especially with how many people are in the game.

you may, and your reasons for voting 6, despite not agreeing with them, actually read very sincere to me. thank you. please post more.