Retrocausality Mafia - ENDGAME: A Reprieve in the Desert

[sprityo]

Tinfoil time...

The "rolecop" that sprityo refers to is not a rolecop but is a "find this player" role like Golden's and was successful early in the game hence why he hasn't infodropped other character claims.

[sprityo]

Tinfoil time...

The "rolecop" that sprityo refers to is not a rolecop but is a "find this player" role like Golden's and was successful early in the game hence why he hasn't infodropped other character claims.

Actually it is a rolecop. What you were referencing earlier IS a flavorcop

Which even then a flavor cop doesn’t really even do that.

I know juliet’s Entire role power word for word

[sprityo]

Okay I think I have seen enough to want sprityo's head on a pike.

1. The Claim

His role claim is weird and the choices are weirder. It doesn't seem like a civ role and the application of it doesn't seem civvie in the slightest.

In my defense, I didn’t submit my first night action. Would’ve loved to have saved it for later in fact. And my night 2 track of daisy was more so on a whim if anything

2. The Defense

He was the main person trying to object to the lapluie lynch and only ended up voting for her when there was no reason not to as I demonstrated in the post above.

i did not object to the lynch in the slightest

Here's another post that Epignosis also called bullshit on.

Colonialbob is available to replace Lapluie, albeit at low effort since he won't be around at certain times.

I am uncertain whether to do this or just let things run their course.

The fact that you're asking confirms lapluie is bad. Let us lynch her.

Flawed logic at its finest

He is very aware of what he is doing. So much so he unprovokedly says this.

Not to say it looks like I’m defending lapluie. I’m just saying how you’re acting is....odd

i was fully prepared to go into the lap lynch that day. Same if it had been Kyle or Epi. How Epi went about so eager to “confirm” lapluie was bad to show to everyone else “hey guys I’m lynching the baddy, it’s a for sure deal!” That did not sit right with me.

He also did the exact same thing on the Lunalee lynch.

Fine. You all win, I'll do what you want. Against my own feelings on this. [VOTE: lunalee] aubergine

You have someone who has claimed openly to not be civ aligned, and you want to believe them and possibly allow them the space to do what they want. We'll see how this goes. I hope you all are right.

You literally quoted [mention]Spacedaisy[/mention]...... nice try mac

3. The Indie Hunter

to follow up what i just posted, to toss in my two cents.

independents are basically guaranteed in this game, otherwise it wouldnt be fun. on top of that, it makes the Scientist role more reasonable if quin is as he says (or from what i've gathered mac had said just then) i havent gone back to see what quin ACTUALLY "claimed"

He very quickly started talking about independents, a scumtell. Here's some more.

er.....

that's not a bad point actually

as great as the case is, i'd be fine with either or. TH is claiming 3P and that secures us one less infraction to worry about as town

i was caught up in the granduer of golden's case


that also reminds me, are we just ignoring INH now orrr?

so that's it then? assume TH is working in the interest of town?

look dont let me say i told you so when he soup kills like three people at once

you’re going to get on me about wanting to lynch Indies, when I know for a FACT, daisy and Colin were in the exact same positions? I had legitimate concerns over TH at the time. And literally no one addressed INH, he just died during the night somehow and that was that, no more INH. You want to shame me for being concerned about crazy indie roles in a crazy closed setup?

4. The Salad

coming back midway or so through day 2.

Epi is town, he's indecisive and changes is suspicions on a whim, i observed a good deal of it in Fire Emblem. He is right most of the time though in his suspicions, but he's best at defending himself.
Golden leans town for me with his interactions of sig, quin, mac, and INH. But it's more so just banter. than throwing down some "you're bad, fuck you"
i dont trust Quin (right now) in the slightest. A stump isnt activated by default from what ive seen. he's either lying out his ass or some convoluted shit is happening. on top of the "random PM" deal im still reading through. I hope it gets resolved
I keep seeing Colin pop in now and again. contributing somewhat.
Same with luna except it's nothing relevant, warrants an ISO once im done reading day2
if INH is not town, then when are we going to lynch him?
Mac is town but i dont know why yet.

He makes a decisive read on Epi in an attempt to buddy/disarm him. This entire post is a mixture of reads and observations. The comments on Colin and Luna are particularly pingy in that they seem to serve no benefit other than to demonstrate that he is reading the game. The comment on me, I have no worldly idea what that's about.

That’s excatly what it was mac, it was me reading to catch up. To say I made a “decisive” read is false, and to buddy someone is something I loathe. If people want to trust me that’s fine, but I don’t aim for it.

i also group turniphead with luna in that they havent done anything worthy to not be lynched as far as ive read

This is a similar comment but has the extended weirdness of the phrasing. Just something off about the phrase "worthy to not be lynched". In both aforementioned posts he is fairly encouraging of the idea of lynching the two independents, which again, is a scum type behavior.

and again, to single me out as such makes this look worse than it is. I’m positive Scotty said something akin to what you quoted as well. I don’t live with double standards, mac

5. The Low Value Content

Spoiler: show

We learn nothing if ANYONE dies. I don’t see how someone that is subtly hinting that they’re not town isn’t a worthy lynch candidate down the road

that's what I'm saying Scotty, we learn something if turnip head LIVES so why would it be a good idea to lynch him instead of seeing how his thing plays out?

We don’t know we will learn anything if he lives besides him just hanging around like that ex girlfriend that keeps coming back because she “needed some closure” and “still likes being around me”

Addendum: if he didn’t vanish, then we know he’s lying.

I see what you mean.

Got it.

*hails waitress*

Check please!

yesssss exactly.

if we lynch him early then we don't know what alignment he died with but if we let him achieve his stated wincon we'll know if he was lying.

if his wincon claim is a definite lie then we can comfortably lynch him based on that evidence, but if we lynch him before it can come to fruition then turnip head remains a mystery until the end.

This rationale makes sense and at the same time makes me uneasy. very uneasy. There's no definite that the future will be as predicted

Another pointless "I have feelings towards this game" post.

again see above about me having concerns for the town and daisy having the same concerns. I’m really starting to dislike all these single out posts mac

6. The Struggle to Find Other Viable Candidates Aside from His Teammates

Mac and I are braintwinning right now, for real

this rubs me the wrong way

my gut has the rumblies

Sus on Colin with no explanation as to why. Pushing one of the other guys starting to have the POE crunch come down on them into the limelight subtly. Then he started to half jokingly point fingers at Spacedaisy.

ever heard of a gut read? This was that. Like you say I was buddying Epi or whatever when I first got in, but this looks 10x more likely a buddy

I know golden said he trusted daisy as his core town, I don’t think he said why outside of his own beliefs. Did you feel the same Scotty?

Good news Scotty, if you die, we’ll know that daisy is the one who killed you

Note, he has already tracked Spacedaisy targeting Scotty and we see Scotty is still alive. He has ZERO reason to doubt or suspect her.

false, the coincidence that Scotty got an item on the sameness night I tracked daisy confirms she gave it to him. Daisy has yet to claim at all so for all I know, it could be a useless item, or it could have either good or bad effects. You forgot to mention how she’s encouraged Scotty to eat the cookie in that same day. So I mean i would hope it’s a good item.


7. The Contradiction

This could be the most telling thing. In these consecutive posts he goes from defending the position of trusting and letting TH do what TH do.

I have a question for people who are pro-Turnip
Head: why?

why not

indi doesnt have to care who wins, as long as their wincon is met

To criticising someone for trusting TH.

I will campaign to not see TH lynched today if need be. But I didn't really realise there was any threat of that, because I can't imagine any good reason to lynch him. All the facts suggest he is not mafia, to me. I have no interest in lynching an indy when the player numbers are so small and the indy is claiming he'll vanish anyway. This one I definitely would see as a waste of a lynch.

Why would you not let it play out and see if he is being honest? Like - if we lynch TH and prevent him winning by one day and go on to lose because we've wasted a lynch on this, I will riot.

There is absolutely nothing about TH's behaviour in the entire game that suggests any kind of agenda.

we just trust indy's now based on word alone?

that’s one hell of a jump you got there, I’ll need to check on where exactly I said this, but I’m almost positive it was before I knew HOW TH needed his wincon. That’s the important part here. And to say changes of opinion haven’t happened in an instant elsewhere in the game mac is hypocritical

In Closing

This feels ... insanely correct. Please do yourselves a favour and read that and tell me how you can justify voting for anybody else tomorrow?

In all, I see a lot of framing to fit the picture here. You really want me to be bad off circumstantial evidence, but to address me singularily and say “this is bad, you’re the only bad one” is crap. You’re like a politician

[sprityo]

Oh another argument for sprityo as bad is that I was the kill choice. It makes sense for sprityo to have killed me given the way he was talking about me and the way he just dismissed me as a civ for no reason.

This right here, would be the most damning evidence against me. And I honesty can’t defend it because it DOES look awful, but now we get into WIFOM just like from day1 and day2 where the mafia kill reflected a bad look on daisy. It was perfect because mac was already pretty suspicious of choutas at that time and was pushing a lynch for me. A very opportunistic kill.

Also “no reason.” Alrightttttt okay. Whatever floats your boat

[Scotty]

Sprityo, mind sharing with the class what golden’s/Juliets Entire role is?

[sprityo]

I also refuse to have Epi dismissed as a candidate for scum.

To say “there’s no way someone would buss their entire team” is the kind of thinking that the town fucks up on and loses to.

And if you think Epignosis of all people wouldn’t do some crazy gambit like that, then be my guest.

[sprityo]

Sprityo, mind sharing with the class what golden’s/Juliets Entire role is?

Do you want me to outright say it?

It’s basically a doctor

[sprityo]

Sprityo, mind sharing with the class what golden’s/Juliets Entire role is?

Do you want me to outright say it?

It’s basically a doctor

If you’ve ever seen back to the future (the first one) you could figure out how marty mcfly is related to doc brown and make that the role power

[Scotty]

Sprityo, mind sharing with the class what golden’s/Juliets Entire role is?

Do you want me to outright say it?

It’s basically a doctor

Wtf

My insurance can’t afford all these doctors.

At this point if you’re not a doctor. I suspect you

So that’s interesting. In a game with so many doctors, we haven’t successfully protected anyone yet at night

[nutella]

how many people here appreciate the irony of juliets getting a bttf role xD

[Scotty]

Sprityo, mind sharing with the class what golden’s/Juliets Entire role is?

Do you want me to outright say it?

It’s basically a doctor

If you’ve ever seen back to the future (the first one) you could figure out how marty mcfly is related to doc brown and make that the role power

Sure.

I think you’re bad.

I’ll explain why after the night

[Spacedaisy]

how many people here appreciate the irony of juliets getting a bttf role xD

::raises hand::

[sprityo]

[mention]Scotty[/mention]

[sprityo]

I’m gonna just outright say it if you don’t actually get it

[Scotty]

I’m gonna just outright say it if you don’t actually get it

Yea I get it

[Scotty]

I’m gonna just outright say it if you don’t actually get it

Yea I get it

And I think you know why I think you’re bad

[sprityo]

I’m gonna just outright say it if you don’t actually get it

Yea I get it

And I think you know why I think you’re bad

Not in the slightest in fact

[sprityo]

I’m gonna just outright say it if you don’t actually get it

Yea I get it

And I think you know why I think you’re bad

Not in the slightest in fact

I guess I’ll have to wait until tomorrow morning when I get off work

[ColinIsCool]

The points you raised against him I felt were salient and quin did too. But for them to be valid Lapluie must be a civ and he was using her as an easy lynch to buy a day because there is no reason to bus her the way he did. Possible that he just went after the easiest civ lynch that was left, but I don't think she was a civilian based on her interactions with sig and based on POE. There is too much evidence that Epi is town. The suggestion that he bussed his entire team in a game that there's no value in doing that just doesn't stand to reason. Epignosis as scum here would have done what sprityo has tried to do (and tbh what you have tried to do as well) except he would have been far more effective at it. Yes he tinfoiled golden a bit but that is on his civ meta to do so and he never actually got anywhere with it. He got heated with another prominent civ player ... that is par for the course for Epi.

Epignosis might be playing 4D chess in the hopes that someone would make this case. Is it possible? Ehhhh he is a good player yes but it would be just insane to think that he did that.

If you want evidence look at his treatment of sig straight out of the gate, as well as Lunalee and Lapluie. Make a case that they are town because I sure as fuck can't. Now that I am so sure on sprityo you can add his treatment of sprityo to that pile.

You really think lapluie was scum? I have trouble saying confidently myself either way but you feel confident she was?

[ColinIsCool]

As far as bussing goes I voted also for all those people so I’m not sure why you think Epi wouldn’t do that while I would. If sprit isn’t the last one it HAS to be him.

[Epignosis]

Epi, so you are saying you're not a doctor? Why did you say earlier you are a doctor? What are you then?

When I claimed doctor the first time, I wasn't entirely lying: My original role was such that if my target was the mafia's pick to go bye-bye that Night, I would go bye-bye in that person's stead. The existence of my role implied that there had to be precious civilian abilities out there to preserve.

I'm the doctor.

Now what.

I figured if the sole purpose of my role was to make like Jesus and save someone from death at my own expense, I might as well see if I could draw a kill the old fashioned way.

I'm not a doctor. I was trying to draw a kill, but that isn't going to happen now.

Maybe it was a stupid plan, but hey, I tried.

I feel like one of the doctors should protect me in the next night phase tbh. Just a request.

Sorry. I already targeted you last Night.

I targeted Golden Night 1, just as I said here.

Hey guys I'm an independent doctor.

This was just me amusing myself.

Golden-Mac

Teammates 2483

It is the year 2483, and I brought you here to try the Brew of the Modern Gods. Pip Lagosi.

This was also just me amusing myself.

Now, in 2483, something interesting happens.

I get elected.

The result of that election was the removal of the consequence that I would be eliminated when successfully protecting someone.

Guess what that makes me?

A damn doctor.

[Epignosis]

MacDougall, I think your big post on sprityo looks solid, but I have to take off points because one of the quotes in there belongs to Spacedaisy, not sprityo.

[Epignosis]

I also refuse to have Epi dismissed as a candidate for scum.

To say “there’s no way someone would buss their entire team” is the kind of thinking that the town fucks up on and loses to.

And if you think Epignosis of all people wouldn’t do some crazy gambit like that, then be my guest.

Ahem.

How many times do I have to say that I NEVER PROTECT TEAMMATES. Literally never because it is the stupidest thing to do.

Go read Economics, where I bussed my entire team early and rode it to the end. That's how you win as scum. Not protecting someone who had just been outed as having a 50% chance of being bad.

*Looks at Epignosis' win record*

*Counts how many times Epignosis threw teammates under the bus*

[sprityo]

I also refuse to have Epi dismissed as a candidate for scum.

To say “there’s no way someone would buss their entire team” is the kind of thinking that the town fucks up on and loses to.

And if you think Epignosis of all people wouldn’t do some crazy gambit like that, then be my guest.

Ahem.

How many times do I have to say that I NEVER PROTECT TEAMMATES. Literally never because it is the stupidest thing to do.

Go read Economics, where I bussed my entire team early and rode it to the end. That's how you win as scum. Not protecting someone who had just been outed as having a 50% chance of being bad.

*Looks at Epignosis' win record*

*Counts how many times Epignosis threw teammates under the bus*

If anything this bolsters my argument

[Epignosis]

What was your argument and how does what I said support it?

[juliets]

Sprityo, mind sharing with the class what golden’s/Juliets Entire role is?

Do you want me to outright say it?

It’s basically a doctor

Golden said this once and I will say it again, I am a searcher and I found my person early in the game. Why would you say things like this if you are civ? It looks like you are trying to place a target on my back.

[juliets]

Epi, so you are saying you're not a doctor? Why did you say earlier you are a doctor? What are you then?

When I claimed doctor the first time, I wasn't entirely lying: My original role was such that if my target was the mafia's pick to go bye-bye that Night, I would go bye-bye in that person's stead. The existence of my role implied that there had to be precious civilian abilities out there to preserve.

I'm the doctor.

Now what.

I figured if the sole purpose of my role was to make like Jesus and save someone from death at my own expense, I might as well see if I could draw a kill the old fashioned way.

I'm not a doctor. I was trying to draw a kill, but that isn't going to happen now.

Maybe it was a stupid plan, but hey, I tried.

I feel like one of the doctors should protect me in the next night phase tbh. Just a request.

Sorry. I already targeted you last Night.

I targeted Golden Night 1, just as I said here.

Hey guys I'm an independent doctor.

This was just me amusing myself.

Golden-Mac

Teammates 2483

It is the year 2483, and I brought you here to try the Brew of the Modern Gods. Pip Lagosi.

This was also just me amusing myself.

Now, in 2483, something interesting happens.

I get elected.

The result of that election was the removal of the consequence that I would be eliminated when successfully protecting someone.

Guess what that makes me?

A damn doctor.

Wow, cool, thanks for the great explanation.

[Spacedaisy]

I’ve clarified some things with the host and I still think that it’s worth targeting me tonight [mention]Kylemii[/mention] if you truly do have to role power you say. But I can’t fault you if you choose someone else either.

[Kylemii]

i'm targeting myself to cause a paradox and create a rift in the time space continuum

[MacDougall]

Spoiler: show

Okay I think I have seen enough to want sprityo's head on a pike.

1. The Claim

His role claim is weird and the choices are weirder. It doesn't seem like a civ role and the application of it doesn't seem civvie in the slightest.

In my defense, I didn’t submit my first night action. Would’ve loved to have saved it for later in fact. And my night 2 track of daisy was more so on a whim if anything

2. The Defense

He was the main person trying to object to the lapluie lynch and only ended up voting for her when there was no reason not to as I demonstrated in the post above.

i did not object to the lynch in the slightest

Here's another post that Epignosis also called bullshit on.

Colonialbob is available to replace Lapluie, albeit at low effort since he won't be around at certain times.

I am uncertain whether to do this or just let things run their course.

The fact that you're asking confirms lapluie is bad. Let us lynch her.

Flawed logic at its finest

He is very aware of what he is doing. So much so he unprovokedly says this.

Not to say it looks like I’m defending lapluie. I’m just saying how you’re acting is....odd

i was fully prepared to go into the lap lynch that day. Same if it had been Kyle or Epi. How Epi went about so eager to “confirm” lapluie was bad to show to everyone else “hey guys I’m lynching the baddy, it’s a for sure deal!” That did not sit right with me.

He also did the exact same thing on the Lunalee lynch.

Fine. You all win, I'll do what you want. Against my own feelings on this. [VOTE: lunalee] aubergine

You have someone who has claimed openly to not be civ aligned, and you want to believe them and possibly allow them the space to do what they want. We'll see how this goes. I hope you all are right.

You literally quoted @Spacedaisy...... nice try mac

3. The Indie Hunter

to follow up what i just posted, to toss in my two cents.

independents are basically guaranteed in this game, otherwise it wouldnt be fun. on top of that, it makes the Scientist role more reasonable if quin is as he says (or from what i've gathered mac had said just then) i havent gone back to see what quin ACTUALLY "claimed"

He very quickly started talking about independents, a scumtell. Here's some more.

er.....

that's not a bad point actually

as great as the case is, i'd be fine with either or. TH is claiming 3P and that secures us one less infraction to worry about as town

i was caught up in the granduer of golden's case


that also reminds me, are we just ignoring INH now orrr?

so that's it then? assume TH is working in the interest of town?

look dont let me say i told you so when he soup kills like three people at once

you’re going to get on me about wanting to lynch Indies, when I know for a FACT, daisy and Colin were in the exact same positions? I had legitimate concerns over TH at the time. And literally no one addressed INH, he just died during the night somehow and that was that, no more INH. You want to shame me for being concerned about crazy indie roles in a crazy closed setup?

4. The Salad

coming back midway or so through day 2.

Epi is town, he's indecisive and changes is suspicions on a whim, i observed a good deal of it in Fire Emblem. He is right most of the time though in his suspicions, but he's best at defending himself.
Golden leans town for me with his interactions of sig, quin, mac, and INH. But it's more so just banter. than throwing down some "you're bad, fuck you"
i dont trust Quin (right now) in the slightest. A stump isnt activated by default from what ive seen. he's either lying out his ass or some convoluted shit is happening. on top of the "random PM" deal im still reading through. I hope it gets resolved
I keep seeing Colin pop in now and again. contributing somewhat.
Same with luna except it's nothing relevant, warrants an ISO once im done reading day2
if INH is not town, then when are we going to lynch him?
Mac is town but i dont know why yet.

He makes a decisive read on Epi in an attempt to buddy/disarm him. This entire post is a mixture of reads and observations. The comments on Colin and Luna are particularly pingy in that they seem to serve no benefit other than to demonstrate that he is reading the game. The comment on me, I have no worldly idea what that's about.

That’s excatly what it was mac, it was me reading to catch up. To say I made a “decisive” read is false, and to buddy someone is something I loathe. If people want to trust me that’s fine, but I don’t aim for it.

i also group turniphead with luna in that they havent done anything worthy to not be lynched as far as ive read

This is a similar comment but has the extended weirdness of the phrasing. Just something off about the phrase "worthy to not be lynched". In both aforementioned posts he is fairly encouraging of the idea of lynching the two independents, which again, is a scum type behavior.

and again, to single me out as such makes this look worse than it is. I’m positive Scotty said something akin to what you quoted as well. I don’t live with double standards, mac

5. The Low Value Content

Spoiler: show

that's what I'm saying Scotty, we learn something if turnip head LIVES so why would it be a good idea to lynch him instead of seeing how his thing plays out?

We don’t know we will learn anything if he lives besides him just hanging around like that ex girlfriend that keeps coming back because she “needed some closure” and “still likes being around me”

Addendum: if he didn’t vanish, then we know he’s lying.

I see what you mean.

Got it.

*hails waitress*

Check please!

yesssss exactly.

if we lynch him early then we don't know what alignment he died with but if we let him achieve his stated wincon we'll know if he was lying.

if his wincon claim is a definite lie then we can comfortably lynch him based on that evidence, but if we lynch him before it can come to fruition then turnip head remains a mystery until the end.

This rationale makes sense and at the same time makes me uneasy. very uneasy. There's no definite that the future will be as predicted

Another pointless "I have feelings towards this game" post.

again see above about me having concerns for the town and daisy having the same concerns. I’m really starting to dislike all these single out posts mac

6. The Struggle to Find Other Viable Candidates Aside from His Teammates

Mac and I are braintwinning right now, for real

this rubs me the wrong way

my gut has the rumblies

Sus on Colin with no explanation as to why. Pushing one of the other guys starting to have the POE crunch come down on them into the limelight subtly. Then he started to half jokingly point fingers at Spacedaisy.

ever heard of a gut read? This was that. Like you say I was buddying Epi or whatever when I first got in, but this looks 10x more likely a buddy

I know golden said he trusted daisy as his core town, I don’t think he said why outside of his own beliefs. Did you feel the same Scotty?

Good news Scotty, if you die, we’ll know that daisy is the one who killed you

Note, he has already tracked Spacedaisy targeting Scotty and we see Scotty is still alive. He has ZERO reason to doubt or suspect her.

false, the coincidence that Scotty got an item on the sameness night I tracked daisy confirms she gave it to him. Daisy has yet to claim at all so for all I know, it could be a useless item, or it could have either good or bad effects. You forgot to mention how she’s encouraged Scotty to eat the cookie in that same day. So I mean i would hope it’s a good item.


7. The Contradiction

This could be the most telling thing. In these consecutive posts he goes from defending the position of trusting and letting TH do what TH do.

I have a question for people who are pro-Turnip
Head: why?

why not

indi doesnt have to care who wins, as long as their wincon is met

To criticising someone for trusting TH.

I will campaign to not see TH lynched today if need be. But I didn't really realise there was any threat of that, because I can't imagine any good reason to lynch him. All the facts suggest he is not mafia, to me. I have no interest in lynching an indy when the player numbers are so small and the indy is claiming he'll vanish anyway. This one I definitely would see as a waste of a lynch.

Why would you not let it play out and see if he is being honest? Like - if we lynch TH and prevent him winning by one day and go on to lose because we've wasted a lynch on this, I will riot.

There is absolutely nothing about TH's behaviour in the entire game that suggests any kind of agenda.

we just trust indy's now based on word alone?

that’s one hell of a jump you got there, I’ll need to check on where exactly I said this, but I’m almost positive it was before I knew HOW TH needed his wincon. That’s the important part here. And to say changes of opinion haven’t happened in an instant elsewhere in the game mac is hypocritical

In Closing

This feels ... insanely correct. Please do yourselves a favour and read that and tell me how you can justify voting for anybody else tomorrow?

In all, I see a lot of framing to fit the picture here. You really want me to be bad off circumstantial evidence, but to address me singularily and say “this is bad, you’re the only bad one” is crap. You’re like a politician

On the contrary, you were the last person of the 4 in the POE I analysed. I had a civ read on you. I have no agenda here sprityo.

[MacDougall]

Oh another argument for sprityo as bad is that I was the kill choice. It makes sense for sprityo to have killed me given the way he was talking about me and the way he just dismissed me as a civ for no reason.

This right here, would be the most damning evidence against me. And I honesty can’t defend it because it DOES look awful, but now we get into WIFOM just like from day1 and day2 where the mafia kill reflected a bad look on daisy. It was perfect because mac was already pretty suspicious of choutas at that time and was pushing a lynch for me. A very opportunistic kill.

Also “no reason.” Alrightttttt okay. Whatever floats your boat

You literally said "Mac is civ but I don't know why yet" buddy.

[MacDougall]

I also refuse to have Epi dismissed as a candidate for scum.

To say “there’s no way someone would buss their entire team” is the kind of thinking that the town fucks up on and loses to.

And if you think Epignosis of all people wouldn’t do some crazy gambit like that, then be my guest.

There's no way in a game that there is no value in bussing, Epi would have bussed his entire team. 0% chance.

[MacDougall]

The points you raised against him I felt were salient and quin did too. But for them to be valid Lapluie must be a civ and he was using her as an easy lynch to buy a day because there is no reason to bus her the way he did. Possible that he just went after the easiest civ lynch that was left, but I don't think she was a civilian based on her interactions with sig and based on POE. There is too much evidence that Epi is town. The suggestion that he bussed his entire team in a game that there's no value in doing that just doesn't stand to reason. Epignosis as scum here would have done what sprityo has tried to do (and tbh what you have tried to do as well) except he would have been far more effective at it. Yes he tinfoiled golden a bit but that is on his civ meta to do so and he never actually got anywhere with it. He got heated with another prominent civ player ... that is par for the course for Epi.

Epignosis might be playing 4D chess in the hopes that someone would make this case. Is it possible? Ehhhh he is a good player yes but it would be just insane to think that he did that.

If you want evidence look at his treatment of sig straight out of the gate, as well as Lunalee and Lapluie. Make a case that they are town because I sure as fuck can't. Now that I am so sure on sprityo you can add his treatment of sprityo to that pile.

You really think lapluie was scum? I have trouble saying confidently myself either way but you feel confident she was?

To be honest no, but it sounds more and more like you know who the scum actually are with posts like this.

[MacDougall]

As far as bussing goes I voted also for all those people so I’m not sure why you think Epi wouldn’t do that while I would. If sprit isn’t the last one it HAS to be him.

You also pushed back against their lynches. It's incomparable. Epi drove the bus off a cliff and then set fire to the wreckage.

[MacDougall]

MacDougall, I think your big post on sprityo looks solid, but I have to take off points because one of the quotes in there belongs to Spacedaisy, not sprityo.

Yeah fuck

[MacDougall]

speedchuck end dat night

[speedchuck]

speedchuck end dat night

Working on it

[speedchuck]

Night 4: Everyone voted Juliets

[speedchuck]

DAY 5

Juliets was chosen, and she got right to it.



While the rest watched, she made a wonderful picture that would make others think from years to come yadda yadda yadda... what's this?

Scotty is missing?

"That's it," says the time tour guide. "No more of this. If we don't clear up this mess soon, I'm cancelling the tour. No refunds."

"But we-"

"NO REFUNDS!"

Juliets arrived back on board, beaming. "What do you guys think of my--"



"NO REFUNDS!" the time tour guide screeches, herding everyone into the zeppelin. They take off again for a past unknown, on the last legs of their journey.

Scotty has VANISHED!
It is now MYLO!
48 Hours remain.

[sprityo]

Spoiler: show

Okay I think I have seen enough to want sprityo's head on a pike.

1. The Claim

His role claim is weird and the choices are weirder. It doesn't seem like a civ role and the application of it doesn't seem civvie in the slightest.

In my defense, I didn’t submit my first night action. Would’ve loved to have saved it for later in fact. And my night 2 track of daisy was more so on a whim if anything

2. The Defense

He was the main person trying to object to the lapluie lynch and only ended up voting for her when there was no reason not to as I demonstrated in the post above.

i did not object to the lynch in the slightest

Here's another post that Epignosis also called bullshit on.

Colonialbob is available to replace Lapluie, albeit at low effort since he won't be around at certain times.

I am uncertain whether to do this or just let things run their course.

The fact that you're asking confirms lapluie is bad. Let us lynch her.

Flawed logic at its finest

He is very aware of what he is doing. So much so he unprovokedly says this.

Not to say it looks like I’m defending lapluie. I’m just saying how you’re acting is....odd

i was fully prepared to go into the lap lynch that day. Same if it had been Kyle or Epi. How Epi went about so eager to “confirm” lapluie was bad to show to everyone else “hey guys I’m lynching the baddy, it’s a for sure deal!” That did not sit right with me.

He also did the exact same thing on the Lunalee lynch.

Fine. You all win, I'll do what you want. Against my own feelings on this. [VOTE: lunalee] aubergine

You have someone who has claimed openly to not be civ aligned, and you want to believe them and possibly allow them the space to do what they want. We'll see how this goes. I hope you all are right.

You literally quoted @Spacedaisy...... nice try mac

3. The Indie Hunter

to follow up what i just posted, to toss in my two cents.

independents are basically guaranteed in this game, otherwise it wouldnt be fun. on top of that, it makes the Scientist role more reasonable if quin is as he says (or from what i've gathered mac had said just then) i havent gone back to see what quin ACTUALLY "claimed"

He very quickly started talking about independents, a scumtell. Here's some more.

er.....

that's not a bad point actually

as great as the case is, i'd be fine with either or. TH is claiming 3P and that secures us one less infraction to worry about as town

i was caught up in the granduer of golden's case


that also reminds me, are we just ignoring INH now orrr?

so that's it then? assume TH is working in the interest of town?

look dont let me say i told you so when he soup kills like three people at once

you’re going to get on me about wanting to lynch Indies, when I know for a FACT, daisy and Colin were in the exact same positions? I had legitimate concerns over TH at the time. And literally no one addressed INH, he just died during the night somehow and that was that, no more INH. You want to shame me for being concerned about crazy indie roles in a crazy closed setup?

4. The Salad

coming back midway or so through day 2.

Epi is town, he's indecisive and changes is suspicions on a whim, i observed a good deal of it in Fire Emblem. He is right most of the time though in his suspicions, but he's best at defending himself.
Golden leans town for me with his interactions of sig, quin, mac, and INH. But it's more so just banter. than throwing down some "you're bad, fuck you"
i dont trust Quin (right now) in the slightest. A stump isnt activated by default from what ive seen. he's either lying out his ass or some convoluted shit is happening. on top of the "random PM" deal im still reading through. I hope it gets resolved
I keep seeing Colin pop in now and again. contributing somewhat.
Same with luna except it's nothing relevant, warrants an ISO once im done reading day2
if INH is not town, then when are we going to lynch him?
Mac is town but i dont know why yet.

He makes a decisive read on Epi in an attempt to buddy/disarm him. This entire post is a mixture of reads and observations. The comments on Colin and Luna are particularly pingy in that they seem to serve no benefit other than to demonstrate that he is reading the game. The comment on me, I have no worldly idea what that's about.

That’s excatly what it was mac, it was me reading to catch up. To say I made a “decisive” read is false, and to buddy someone is something I loathe. If people want to trust me that’s fine, but I don’t aim for it.

i also group turniphead with luna in that they havent done anything worthy to not be lynched as far as ive read

This is a similar comment but has the extended weirdness of the phrasing. Just something off about the phrase "worthy to not be lynched". In both aforementioned posts he is fairly encouraging of the idea of lynching the two independents, which again, is a scum type behavior.

and again, to single me out as such makes this look worse than it is. I’m positive Scotty said something akin to what you quoted as well. I don’t live with double standards, mac

5. The Low Value Content

Spoiler: show

We don’t know we will learn anything if he lives besides him just hanging around like that ex girlfriend that keeps coming back because she “needed some closure” and “still likes being around me”

Addendum: if he didn’t vanish, then we know he’s lying.

I see what you mean.

Got it.

*hails waitress*

Check please!

yesssss exactly.

if we lynch him early then we don't know what alignment he died with but if we let him achieve his stated wincon we'll know if he was lying.

if his wincon claim is a definite lie then we can comfortably lynch him based on that evidence, but if we lynch him before it can come to fruition then turnip head remains a mystery until the end.

This rationale makes sense and at the same time makes me uneasy. very uneasy. There's no definite that the future will be as predicted

Another pointless "I have feelings towards this game" post.

again see above about me having concerns for the town and daisy having the same concerns. I’m really starting to dislike all these single out posts mac

6. The Struggle to Find Other Viable Candidates Aside from His Teammates

Mac and I are braintwinning right now, for real

this rubs me the wrong way

my gut has the rumblies

Sus on Colin with no explanation as to why. Pushing one of the other guys starting to have the POE crunch come down on them into the limelight subtly. Then he started to half jokingly point fingers at Spacedaisy.

ever heard of a gut read? This was that. Like you say I was buddying Epi or whatever when I first got in, but this looks 10x more likely a buddy

I know golden said he trusted daisy as his core town, I don’t think he said why outside of his own beliefs. Did you feel the same Scotty?

Good news Scotty, if you die, we’ll know that daisy is the one who killed you

Note, he has already tracked Spacedaisy targeting Scotty and we see Scotty is still alive. He has ZERO reason to doubt or suspect her.

false, the coincidence that Scotty got an item on the sameness night I tracked daisy confirms she gave it to him. Daisy has yet to claim at all so for all I know, it could be a useless item, or it could have either good or bad effects. You forgot to mention how she’s encouraged Scotty to eat the cookie in that same day. So I mean i would hope it’s a good item.


7. The Contradiction

This could be the most telling thing. In these consecutive posts he goes from defending the position of trusting and letting TH do what TH do.

I have a question for people who are pro-Turnip
Head: why?

why not

indi doesnt have to care who wins, as long as their wincon is met

To criticising someone for trusting TH.

I will campaign to not see TH lynched today if need be. But I didn't really realise there was any threat of that, because I can't imagine any good reason to lynch him. All the facts suggest he is not mafia, to me. I have no interest in lynching an indy when the player numbers are so small and the indy is claiming he'll vanish anyway. This one I definitely would see as a waste of a lynch.

Why would you not let it play out and see if he is being honest? Like - if we lynch TH and prevent him winning by one day and go on to lose because we've wasted a lynch on this, I will riot.

There is absolutely nothing about TH's behaviour in the entire game that suggests any kind of agenda.

we just trust indy's now based on word alone?

that’s one hell of a jump you got there, I’ll need to check on where exactly I said this, but I’m almost positive it was before I knew HOW TH needed his wincon. That’s the important part here. And to say changes of opinion haven’t happened in an instant elsewhere in the game mac is hypocritical

In Closing

This feels ... insanely correct. Please do yourselves a favour and read that and tell me how you can justify voting for anybody else tomorrow?

In all, I see a lot of framing to fit the picture here. You really want me to be bad off circumstantial evidence, but to address me singularily and say “this is bad, you’re the only bad one” is crap. You’re like a politician

On the contrary, you were the last person of the 4 in the POE I analysed. I had a civ read on you. I have no agenda here sprityo

if there wasn’t no agenda, why didn’t I get the special big post and negative context about the whole thing?

[sprityo]

Did*

[Kylemii]

mylo means 3 civs 3 mafia?

[Kylemii]

2 mafia

[sprityo]

Oh another argument for sprityo as bad is that I was the kill choice. It makes sense for sprityo to have killed me given the way he was talking about me and the way he just dismissed me as a civ for no reason.

This right here, would be the most damning evidence against me. And I honesty can’t defend it because it DOES look awful, but now we get into WIFOM just like from day1 and day2 where the mafia kill reflected a bad look on daisy. It was perfect because mac was already pretty suspicious of choutas at that time and was pushing a lynch for me. A very opportunistic kill.

Also “no reason.” Alrightttttt okay. Whatever floats your boat

You literally said "Mac is civ but I don't know why yet" buddy.

Yknow what I remember that now. *facepalm* whoops

[sprityo]

Hi daisy

[Spacedaisy]

Ok look. Kyle definitely targeted me last night. And Epi definitely visited Juliet’s last night but she didn’t die, which leads me to believe he is a doctor as he says. I don’t see another reason to visit her.

This leaves me with Colin and Sprityo.

[Kylemii]

btw daisy i did target you

linki oh you already knew

[sprityo]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] can you see my concern with your big post? To me, it’s like you’ve been gunning for me since I’ve replaced in.

[Kylemii]

Ok look. Kyle definitely targeted me last night. And Epi definitely visited Juliet’s last night but she didn’t die, which leads me to believe he is a doctor as he says. I don’t see another reason to visit her.

This leaves me with Colin and Sprityo.

how do you know epi's target?

[sprityo]

Ok look. Kyle definitely targeted me last night. And Epi definitely visited Juliet’s last night but she didn’t die, which leads me to believe he is a doctor as he says. I don’t see another reason to visit her.

This leaves me with Colin and Sprityo.

How do you know Epi definitely visited juliets?