Firefly, The Game [GAME OVER]

[Golden]

I'm sorry but I just don't see what you're seeing.

What is this. You don't 'see' something about your own game. Either I'm right or I'm wrong, you don't have to see it, you already know which it is.

No, that's not exactly it. I don't see how you could think that I manipulated the vote to keep you from being captain, while not breaking the tie between you and Glorfindel.

Glorf is just as easily trusted as me. You guarantee only one of us is captain. Despite common perception, it's not all about my ego - I'd be looking at these patterns no matter who was in the running. It just so happened that in this case it was me, but I'm just an actual identity of [person the mafia don't want to be captain]. Glorfindel fits that bill too. You can't stop both of us, but you can stop one of us.

[novaselinenever]

You could have asked me that directly.

That post is the one I hate the most.

It implies that I have to write a post in a particular way in order for Nova to respond. Like, the fact I say 'I think this about Nova" instead of saying "Nova, I think this about you" is the difference between me being good and bad.

This was the question:

Better question

Why did Nova vote for me early on, then remove the vote from me, and finally voted to ensure only one of glorf and I was captain?

There's nothing about this that implies Nova shouldn't respond, in fact I would expect Nova to respond. But Nova immediately takes issue with the fact I didn't ask him directly, as though my phrasing somehow prevents him from making a reasonable response.

But it doesn't, because the important thing here is I was reframing Enrique's question:

@novaselinenever I wasn't here around deadline, how did you break the tie exactly and how was it tied again?

Dharma, Glorfindel, Golden, Luna and Turnip were all tied at 9. I put Dharma, Luna and Turnip at 10.

How come you didn't break the tie between Golden and Glorfindel?

I wasn't just talking to nova. I was talking to Enrique as well.

He's taking a tense out of context and blowing it up into me 'dancing around him'. It makes no sense. He was in the thread. He answered Enrique right before I reframed the question. I knew he would respond to it. The issue with me not 'asking him directly' just feels like him setting up the trap he executed on later.

Well, we have a different interpretation of the event. I don't get a feel that you were talking to Enrique. It reads to me that you hijacked our interaction, and tried to add to his concern and see what sticks. You stopped talking to him immediately after that one post.

If I'm not mistaken, he was also someone who backed you early on and dropped you. Yet, I'm not sure you raised the same concern about him, as you did about me.

[novaselinenever]

Nova, if you're actually town, why not do more than just focus on me?

Eh, this is a fair point. I'll come around to that eventually. I'm running behind at the moment, so my focus on you is taking up most of my time here.

[Golden]

Well, we have a different interpretation of the event. I don't get a feel that you were talking to Enrique. It reads to me that you hijacked our interaction, and tried to add to his concern and see what sticks. You stopped talking to him immediately after that one post.

If I'm not mistaken, he was also someone who backed you early on and dropped you. Yet, I'm not sure you raised the same concern about him, as you did about me.

Of course you're not fucking mistaken, you know full well that's the case.

So was Wilgy.
So was TH

All of them did it once. You did it twice. And I have concerns with all of you - something I've stated multiple times and you've ignored. But you're the one who handled it particularly badly.

Enrique has been waffly.
Wilgy has started a war with me for no particular reason.
TH invited all of the people I had expressly said I was inviting.

All four of you look bad to me. You look worst. When I voted for you I called out several other people, something you ignore. It's not like I've been exclusive, if you think I have been that's something you're inventing.

[Golden]

I don't think it's possible all four of you are bad. That would be pushing it too far. I do think it's likely that one or two are, and that there was a deliberate plan against me. Right now you and TH seem quite compatible to me.

[novaselinenever]

I'm sorry but I just don't see what you're seeing.

What is this. You don't 'see' something about your own game. Either I'm right or I'm wrong, you don't have to see it, you already know which it is.

No, that's not exactly it. I don't see how you could think that I manipulated the vote to keep you from being captain, while not breaking the tie between you and Glorfindel.

Glorf is just as easily trusted as me. You guarantee only one of us is captain. Despite common perception, it's not all about my ego - I'd be looking at these patterns no matter who was in the running. It just so happened that in this case it was me, but I'm just an actual identity of [person the mafia don't want to be captain]. Glorfindel fits that bill too. You can't stop both of us, but you can stop one of us.

That's a fair point. But why leave it to randomness? If I were bad, and me and my good time buddies were making evil plans, wouldn't have been smarter to choose which one we wouldn't want captain? I'd have been voting for someone that fits [person the mafia don't want to be captain], which is a good look, while at the same time preventing another person that fit that bill.

[Golden]

I'm sorry but I just don't see what you're seeing.

What is this. You don't 'see' something about your own game. Either I'm right or I'm wrong, you don't have to see it, you already know which it is.

No, that's not exactly it. I don't see how you could think that I manipulated the vote to keep you from being captain, while not breaking the tie between you and Glorfindel.

Glorf is just as easily trusted as me. You guarantee only one of us is captain. Despite common perception, it's not all about my ego - I'd be looking at these patterns no matter who was in the running. It just so happened that in this case it was me, but I'm just an actual identity of [person the mafia don't want to be captain]. Glorfindel fits that bill too. You can't stop both of us, but you can stop one of us.

That's a fair point. But why leave it to randomness? If I were bad, and me and my good time buddies were making evil plans, wouldn't have been smarter to choose which one we wouldn't want captain? I'd have been voting for someone that fits [person the mafia don't want to be captain], which is a good look, while at the same time preventing another person that fit that bill.

Maybe, but why not leave it to randomness as well? It gives you this argument that you didn't fully control it, for one thing.

OK nova - self assessment. DDL has said you no u as town. Do you think this is actually alignment indicative of you?

[DharmaHelper]

By the way that Jay quote in Mac's signature is the still the funniest and best thing on this whole site.

[Epignosis]

TH invited all of the people I had expressly said I was inviting.

If you're broadcasting all of your moves "expressly," then perhaps you aren't a very good captain.

[Golden]

TH invited all of the people I had expressly said I was inviting.

If you're broadcasting all of your moves "expressly," then perhaps you aren't a very good captain.

Sure. But that doesn't change what he did. DH, on the other hand, essentially stayed out of the way of what I'd said.

[novaselinenever]

I'm sorry but I just don't see what you're seeing.

What is this. You don't 'see' something about your own game. Either I'm right or I'm wrong, you don't have to see it, you already know which it is.

No, that's not exactly it. I don't see how you could think that I manipulated the vote to keep you from being captain, while not breaking the tie between you and Glorfindel.

Glorf is just as easily trusted as me. You guarantee only one of us is captain. Despite common perception, it's not all about my ego - I'd be looking at these patterns no matter who was in the running. It just so happened that in this case it was me, but I'm just an actual identity of [person the mafia don't want to be captain]. Glorfindel fits that bill too. You can't stop both of us, but you can stop one of us.

That's a fair point. But why leave it to randomness? If I were bad, and me and my good time buddies were making evil plans, wouldn't have been smarter to choose which one we wouldn't want captain? I'd have been voting for someone that fits [person the mafia don't want to be captain], which is a good look, while at the same time preventing another person that fit that bill.

Maybe, but why not leave it to randomness as well? It gives you this argument that you didn't fully control it, for one thing.

OK nova - self assessment. DDL has said you no u as town. Do you think this is actually alignment indicative of you?

Nope, however I tend to do it more as Town I'd say. Either when I'm being passive or playing reactive, and I could be seen as a potential push for a mislynch. Or when I'm trying to supa-town and I catch some shade from scum. Those are often situations, where I look for bullshit cases/fear-mongering made against me. The two games DDL is speaking of fit both situations respectively.

[Golden]

Do you use it in part to get a read on people?

[DharmaHelper]

Anyway the fun thing about mafia games is you tend to win them more when everybody participates

[Turnip Head]

Where's Dougall, surely he doesn't want to be late for his own funeral

[nutella]

[VOTE: macdougall] aubergine not entirely caught up but doing stuff w friends atm. Hanging back from golden vs nova, I think golden is probably civ but I don't think I see what he sees in nova (although this is by far the most active I've ever seen nova which I may count as a point against him). Mac's iso is far too dull and it might be burnout but it might be that he's bad (or both).

[Golden]

I hope soneji shows, it's been too long.

[Epignosis]

DrWilgy
0
No votes


Voters: None


Macdougall
5
29%


Voters: Marmot, Lunalee, speedchuck, nutella, Sanggolden

Someone explain this discrepancy.

[Golden]

I have a work meeting now, not sure how long it will go or if I'll be back. I'm town. Please don't lynch me.

[Golden]

DrWilgy
0
No votes


Voters: None


Macdougall
5
29%


Voters: Marmot, Lunalee, speedchuck, nutella, Sanggolden

Someone explain this discrepancy.

It's better to cast a meaningful vote than one that won't matter (especially in my case where I'm saving myself to do it).

What do you think explains the discrepancy?

In my book I'd vote Wilgy on current circumstances as well, but it would be pointless.

[Epignosis]

DrWilgy
0
No votes


Voters: None


Macdougall
5
29%


Voters: Marmot, Lunalee, speedchuck, nutella, Sanggolden

Someone explain this discrepancy.

It's better to cast a meaningful vote than one that won't matter (especially in my case where I'm saving myself to do it).

What do you think explains the discrepancy?

In my book I'd vote Wilgy on current circumstances as well, but it would be pointless.

I don't really care about your vote in context.

[insertnamehere]

Alrighty, here's some vague commentary I have after binge-reading 10 pages of the thread.

- I can't believe I'm saying this, but, I think I kinda like Golden? Like, his posts and points against Nova have me nodding my head. This feels strange, and unnatural, and I keep waiting for my Golden-based gag reflex to kick in, but it never does. So, yeah, I guess Golden is a light town-read and Nova is a light scum-read for me.
- Enrique reads as good, and the cases against him seem a little exaggerated, especially from Colin and Nutella. DH is someone I'm always wary of mind-melding with, but I've been with him for most of this thread, although his wishy-washy posts on Enrique that Colin pointed out are lame.
- The Mac case seems like weak-sauce. The Golden case seems like weak-sauce. Jeez, is there some way to CFD this shit?
- I admit that Mac doesn't deserve any supatown awards, but the case against him seems to be more for not doing "obligatory Mac things," than for actually doing suspicious things in this game.
- Maybe it's just my misreading of the rules, but the whole job/crew/captain system seems kinda similar to Avalon. This is a little selfish, yes, but I don't want Mac to be lynched today for the simple reason that I don't want Serenity to be down a man. I also feel like I'd be able to learn more about him by crewing with him tonight, and seeing how he acts. I'd rather give him some time.
- Owner is on some next level conspiracy stuff that I both whole-heartedly disagree with, and would love to see more of. It felt like I was flashing back to S~V~S in Survivor Mafia with some much negative interpretations of the (IMO hilarious) Negan gifs that DH has been spamming for the last year or so.
- Nutella, Luna, Speed, and Marmot are the first four people to give me "bad vibes." This isn't anywhere near a scum read, but enough that I might try and ISO them in the future. Nutella in particular has kinda weirded me out this game.

[insertnamehere]

[mention]Sanggolden[/mention] If I vote for Nova would you follow me?

[insertnamehere]

[VOTE: nova] aubergine

Novas vote for me early, then late breaking of the tie in favour of DH, TH and Luna speaks to me of a specific strategy to lessen my chances of being captain.

Nova doesn’t know me that well and I don’t knownova that well. Nova also hasn’t particularly noted anything about me he found suspicious. To me, it feels like part of a strategy.

My guess is one of those three is scum with nova. Probably TH, since TH did a similar thing. Luna voted for me. I’ve liked DH but he did also not vote for me, and his rationale could have been deliberately to pocket me. But TH fits the bill better than DH.

Nova, this is also aimed at you for response despite being passive.

I also feel as though this day has been faaaaar too quiet. I approve of a mac vote as it stands, but he’s one of several that seem to be lurking in the shadows. Wilgy is another, has he done anything but call me out? Where’s inh? Where’s Colin?

I was at a GY!BE show last night and have been pretty busy in general, but I also have next to nothing to contribute so far.

ooh how were they?

[Spacedaisy]

If this ends up being a thing where I keep having to hire crew because people jump around I may regret my choice to be captain lol. But this is interesting

@kyungdaisy can people leave crews without being fired?

Yes, but not the same day they officially join. Once you officially join you are stuck on that crew until the following Day phase. At which point you are free to quit if you are disgruntled with your Captain. Captains can also be dissatisfied with a crew member and fire them, but not until the following Day phase as well.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

DDL, is there any reason to think nova wouldn’t reproduce that meta when bad?

How did you feel about his no u case in that case? Did it feel legitimate in its own right or like it was solely a no u?

I didn't feel either way. He was mostly defending himself and that doesn't usually mean much to me. I'll reread his posts at Night 1.

[insertnamehere]

Captains:

If one member of your squad is mafia, who is it and why?

I guess I'll do what Golden did and tell you why each might be mafia because I can't really honestly pinpoint one as being mafia over any of the rest.

Enri - Hedging his bets when he weighs in on discussions in the thread
Mac - Has been present but hasn't contributed much if anything to the actual hunting of mafia.
Owner - A lot of her suspicions a few pages back were basically defensive responses on behalf of other players, which I found odd.
INH - Haven't seen him much in-thread. Low profile shit.
Soq -Buddy Buddy for the Yucks

If anyone on DH's crew feels personally victimized, you are welcome to jump ship and come join the Bonanza. We get along. At least until our mission is done.

What are your responses to Epi's question, Luna? You cast shade against DH for his honesty, while you've been apprehensive to discuss any of your crewmates.

Perusing your ISO, you have some weird shit in there.

I see no way that Golden isn't town in this game. So why is MacDougall and DrWilgy voting to lynch him? Not a good look for either of them.

This was followed by a vote against Mac that jump-started his wagon, but seems utterly asinine. Just, Golden = definitely town, and therefore Mac must be lynched. Dumb. Yes, I agree that Golden reads civ, but, as I said, I think that due to his strong responses to Nova. From the following post, I assume Luna read maybe five words of that conversation.

Would Golden and Nova state the case against each other in like, ten words or less? I drown when I look at that argument chain.

My current take:
Golden - "Nova's captain votes are weird and probably bad"
Nova - "Nu uh they normal and you are bad for your fake accusation"
Golden - "Man, what an overreaction. Calling it scum"
Nova - "Town Golden wouldn't have a case this bad"

Is that anywhere close?

Thank you for that summary. I don't like reading novels in mafia threads.

So yeah, that's Luna so far. Empty buddying propping up easy lynch-wagons. I voted for Luna to be a captain, because I thought I'd be able to read her pretty well, and that her reactions would be especially revealing. Nearing the end of Day 1, I'm leaning towards her being scum.

The list of people I'd be happy voting for today now consists of Nova and Luna.

[Spacedaisy]

I have the following crews so far:

Serenity - dharmahelper
Mac
INH
Sokoth
Enrique
Owner
This crew is full

Yun Qui - Turnip Head
Epi
Nutella
Nova
Sig
Colin
This crew is full

Bonnie Mae - Golden
Kyle
Glorfindel
Speedchuck
Marmot
1 open spots left

Bonanza - Lunalee
DFaraday
DDL
DrWilgy
2 open spots left

[mention]lapluie[/mention] [mention]Soneji[/mention] Have not yet chosen a crew to join. If they don't before the poll ends they will be on the Day 2 lynch poll automatically.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

When two people are aggressing each other, I tend to skim the discsussion, partly because it's boring to read, and partly because those mutual attacks tend to get a little redundant. The initial points for suspicion have already been made, now it's just nitpicking and trying to win the argument. I mean, it's cool if people do that, I just don't think it generates extra data to read on its own.

Though when other people give their two cents on the discussion it can be a lot more useful imo.

[Epignosis]

Update:

Civilians

DharmaHelper
Glorfindel
Golden
Insertnamehere
OwnerofaLonelyHeart
sig
Turnip Head

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Would Golden and Nova state the case against each other in like, ten words or less? I drown when I look at that argument chain.

My current take:
Golden - "Nova's captain votes are weird and probably bad"
Nova - "Nu uh they normal and you are bad for your fake accusation"
Golden - "Man, what an overreaction. Calling it scum"
Nova - "Town Golden wouldn't have a case this bad"

Is that anywhere close?

Yeah pretty much. It boils down to how much you think nova's vote is a teammate thing or not. The rest is tone reading, instinct, that kind of stuff. Right now I don't feel strongly about nova, but I do think Golden is town.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I hate this Mac lynch by instinct. It feels too easy. We are lynching him because he didn't come to play, not because he's being trying to look like civ and failing.

It feels too easy.

I'll jump on it if this dumb Golden lynch doesn't lose traction, though.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

EBWOP: the "feels too easy" thing wasn't supposed to appear twice

[DharmaHelper]

[Dragon D. Luffy]

DrWilgy
0
No votes


Voters: None


Macdougall
5
29%


Voters: Marmot, Lunalee, speedchuck, nutella, Sanggolden

Someone explain this discrepancy.

What is the most strange, WIlgy or Mac being this inactive?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Update:

Civilians

DharmaHelper
Glorfindel
Golden
Insertnamehere
OwnerofaLonelyHeart
sig
Turnip Head

Yeah I agree here, this is the most legit I've seen INH look in a while.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I support a CFD (can't believe I'm saying this) but I don't have a target.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I kind of agree Luna has been phony but I always think she is and I don't know how I feel about lynching my captain.

[insertnamehere]

I'd vote with you against Nova or Luna, DDL.

[Kylemii]

eeaaauggh i fell asleep during my read

why does golden have 3 votes and why does mac have 5?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Ok let's go

YOLO

[VOTE: Nova] aubergine

[novaselinenever]

I'm down for a CFD on Lunalee.

[novaselinenever]

Ok let's go

YOLO

[VOTE: Nova] aubergine

Lol.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

eeaaauggh i fell asleep during my read

why does golden have 3 votes and why does mac have 5?

Mac because he is about as active as you.

Golden: 1 vote is OMGUS and the other 2 nobody knows.

[DharmaHelper]

Ok let's go

YOLO

[VOTE: Nova] aubergine

What fresh hell

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Eh I dunno man not feeling it

[VOTE: Enrique] aubergine

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Ugh now I want to lynch Luna but she invited me I don't wanna mutiny my captain.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I literally tried to explain why I was voting for nova and it started with "I don't suspect you but"

Fuck that shit.

[insertnamehere]

Ugh now I want to lynch Luna but she invited me I don't wanna mutiny my captain.

come to the dark side, DDL

[VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine

I'm down for a CFD on Lunalee.

let's go buckaroo

[novaselinenever]

How about Sokoth dude?

I just glanced over his ISO, and I still have a bad vibe about him. His contributive posts have been so far riddled with some good old fence-sitting. He went on about not liking the talks about Glorf, but ended up saying that he's someone we should look after.

Same thing about the Golden/I thing. Liking both posts, and feigning interest with a generic response to what could have been my motivation to not break the tie between Glorf/Golden.

[insertnamehere]

How about Sokoth dude?

I just glanced over his ISO, and I still have a bad vibe about him. His contributive posts have been so far riddled with some good old fence-sitting. He went on about not liking the talks about Glorf, but ended up saying that he's someone we should look after.

Same thing about the Golden/I thing. Liking both posts, and feigning interest with a generic response to what could have been my motivation to not break the tie between Glorf/Golden.

...

Are you down for a CFD on Luna or not?