Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 13]

[Long Con]

@Long Con usually there is a polls thread that goes with each game where the host publishes the polls,, like the one for yesterday. Are we going to have that this game and if so, did you save last night's poll?

We will record Polls in the first post.

[ColinIsCool]

I always self destruct under pressure look back at the Peloponnesian war mafia game where I was town

Imma bet wolbre's town.

Did you have an actual question about this or you just trying to throw shade?

It looks like an attempt at earning credit post-lynch. But then again, there are 2 teams, so nvm.

[Lunalee]

[mention]ColinIsCool[/mention] lol, the two teams deal really throws a twist into everything. Like we'll be seeing genuine hunting from scummies looking for the other team.

[Lunalee]

I don't know what any of these poll options are, but I'm voting for the one at the top just because.

[ColinIsCool]

Summary of my suspects: timmer, Sloonei, Tranq, INH, Luna.

[colonialbob]

I didn’t say what I voted for but it was the Become More, sorry.

I like Epi’s post re: DDL’s role speculation.

This was the main ping. Up to this point he had asked a mechanics question and said he voted for the N0 poll randomly. His first engagement with the actual game was to say he liked Epi's post on DDL, with no elaboration or follow up. Since I was going to be out of pocket all day, I figured I would rather have my vote out there and doing something than locked up tight and useless, so I voted. I didn't want to say my reason, because it gives him an easy out if he's mafia to make the suspicion go away. I wanted to see a response not based on my suspicion, and sure enough I got it. Not giving a reason also sort of forces people who jump on the wagon to supply their own reasoning, rather than just saying "yep I agree." D1 I think that's particularly valuable.

Is it scummy ... to say that I like a post?

That's certainly one way of interpreting my case

[ColinIsCool]

I’m just gonna vote for the top option every time.

[ColinIsCool]

I didn’t say what I voted for but it was the Become More, sorry.

I like Epi’s post re: DDL’s role speculation.

This was the main ping. Up to this point he had asked a mechanics question and said he voted for the N0 poll randomly. His first engagement with the actual game was to say he liked Epi's post on DDL, with no elaboration or follow up. Since I was going to be out of pocket all day, I figured I would rather have my vote out there and doing something than locked up tight and useless, so I voted. I didn't want to say my reason, because it gives him an easy out if he's mafia to make the suspicion go away. I wanted to see a response not based on my suspicion, and sure enough I got it. Not giving a reason also sort of forces people who jump on the wagon to supply their own reasoning, rather than just saying "yep I agree." D1 I think that's particularly valuable.

Is it scummy ... to say that I like a post?

That's certainly one way of interpreting my case

Explain like I’m really dumb

[colonialbob]

I didn’t say what I voted for but it was the Become More, sorry.

I like Epi’s post re: DDL’s role speculation.

This was the main ping. Up to this point he had asked a mechanics question and said he voted for the N0 poll randomly. His first engagement with the actual game was to say he liked Epi's post on DDL, with no elaboration or follow up. Since I was going to be out of pocket all day, I figured I would rather have my vote out there and doing something than locked up tight and useless, so I voted. I didn't want to say my reason, because it gives him an easy out if he's mafia to make the suspicion go away. I wanted to see a response not based on my suspicion, and sure enough I got it. Not giving a reason also sort of forces people who jump on the wagon to supply their own reasoning, rather than just saying "yep I agree." D1 I think that's particularly valuable.

Is it scummy ... to say that I like a post?

That's certainly one way of interpreting my case

Explain like I’m really dumb

man first post about other mans is "I agree with that man". Me no like. Me vote to see what man say. Me no give reason to see what other mans do.

[Turnip Head]

All right I am still 2 pages behind, but I have to go walk the dog, so will take this back up later:

Voting Sloonei up in here. Get around it.

Sloon is town tho

Based on?

He had finals or midterms or whatever, perfect excuse to lay low yet he has 150+ posts on Day 1, do you think he's some kind of masochistic moron?

Posting a lot as Mafia on day 1 of a huge game where there are two teams meaning that he can genuinely scum hunt doesn't make him a masochistic moron, it makes him someone trying to win the game as Mafia.

Do you think I could fake this level of effort while also dealing with finals? If so then you really need to stop putting me on such a pedestal. Or you're bad.

Do you not make an effort when you are bad? TH keeps saying this too, that post count while under irl stress = civvie. That is just not true. Lotsa posts when busy =/= civvie. No.

Here's two Sloonei games where he was busy IRL and kept a fairly low profile, and was bad. Much much quieter in U-Pick. Not as quiet in Ancient Greece (he averaged ~70 posts per phase in a game where he lived to the end and won), but I remember finding the distribution of his posts in that game suspect and I called him out for it. He was less centric to the discussions in Ancient Greece, more fringe-y.

Maybe I've oversimplified the evidence, and correlation does not imply causation, but I've correctly read Sloonei in almost all the games we've played together recently, and his posting rate has factored into most of those reads.

Spoiler: show

Sloonei, care to offer some thoughts this day phase? you've kinda dwindled down.

I saw you questioned Quin earlier. how do you feel about Quin atm? he offered some perspectives and suspects. what do you make of him?

I have no fresh reads, have barely followed along in the last week, and have minimal energy for mafia right now. Work is sucking the life out of me right now and when that happens I don’t enjoy playing mafia because I’m just stressed and irritated, and this stops being a fun use of my time. I’m sorry to everyone, I hope I can get back on track in a couple of days.

I’m slightly concerned about Quin. I’ve given him a long leash in this game becaus he subbed in and is hosting elsewhere, but it’s Day 6 now and, from what I can tell, he’s not really engaged much with the game. I pointed out that he often suspects me until I prove my innocence in games, but he’s mostly left me alone here. That worries me a little.

Spoiler: show

Does anyone have thoughts on sloonei or nah...

what are your thoughts on him? i didn't take your post yesterday seriously. should I have?

Half and half. I think it's worth asking why he's stressed inside such a fun game. I feel like he's phoning it in and it's clouding my read.

I've known Sloonei since 2010 and he's never lied about personal life issues. I know what kind of personality he has and I know he's under a lot of stress at his job. I've been on scum teams with him before, and he's never made bullshit excuses in the game, even when under pressure (which he wasn't here...I just asked him to offer some reads since I saw him online). so if your only suspicion is that he's lying with his "I'm stressed" post, then I don't really buy that.

I didn't really say he was lying... I'm simply accusing him of possibly using it as an excuse for randomly receiving a more stressful role in an online game

I mean it happens. The number of times I've lost because a baddie used RL to sneakily sneak under the radar...
I'm just saying

Spoiler: show

((dunya was Sloon's partner in crime in that game ^, lol))

[colonialbob]

The number of posts Sloonei is making doesn't make me think he's town. The content of them does.

[speedchuck]

Okay, I'm actually going to be able to play today.

[speedchuck]

[VOTE: Minor Injuries Are Hilarious] aubergine

[colonialbob]

The number of posts Sloonei is making doesn't make me think he's town. The content of them does.

(Or put another way TH's Greece comparison is a good one)

[Turnip Head]

Yeah content is important too. I'm not very good at explaining why I toneread someone as good or bad, so sometimes I point to other factors like post count or whatever

[speedchuck]

Anyway I had a bad taste in my mouth for most of that lynch and I don't think we actually had good options on the table. Tranq or Speed would have been my preferences.

O dang where's the poll.

Who voted for Wolbre? Was Juliets one of them?

[speedchuck]

RIP Brennan, I was hoping to play with you longer. I read through EOD and understand what happened and I'm really sorry.

Here it is.

[speedchuck]

Wrong quote, that first one was.

[ColinIsCool]

I didn’t say what I voted for but it was the Become More, sorry.

I like Epi’s post re: DDL’s role speculation.

This was the main ping. Up to this point he had asked a mechanics question and said he voted for the N0 poll randomly. His first engagement with the actual game was to say he liked Epi's post on DDL, with no elaboration or follow up. Since I was going to be out of pocket all day, I figured I would rather have my vote out there and doing something than locked up tight and useless, so I voted. I didn't want to say my reason, because it gives him an easy out if he's mafia to make the suspicion go away. I wanted to see a response not based on my suspicion, and sure enough I got it. Not giving a reason also sort of forces people who jump on the wagon to supply their own reasoning, rather than just saying "yep I agree." D1 I think that's particularly valuable.

Is it scummy ... to say that I like a post?

That's certainly one way of interpreting my case

Explain like I’m really dumb

man first post about other mans is "I agree with that man". Me no like. Me vote to see what man say. Me no give reason to see what other mans do.

Okay, so I was right the first time, got it.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

(active in terms of being less passive)

I wouldn't have imagined that meaning for the word if you didn't clarify. Thanks.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

(acrually sorry I know there is another meaning but couldnt help it)

[colonialbob]

I didn’t say what I voted for but it was the Become More, sorry.

I like Epi’s post re: DDL’s role speculation.

This was the main ping. Up to this point he had asked a mechanics question and said he voted for the N0 poll randomly. His first engagement with the actual game was to say he liked Epi's post on DDL, with no elaboration or follow up. Since I was going to be out of pocket all day, I figured I would rather have my vote out there and doing something than locked up tight and useless, so I voted. I didn't want to say my reason, because it gives him an easy out if he's mafia to make the suspicion go away. I wanted to see a response not based on my suspicion, and sure enough I got it. Not giving a reason also sort of forces people who jump on the wagon to supply their own reasoning, rather than just saying "yep I agree." D1 I think that's particularly valuable.

Is it scummy ... to say that I like a post?

That's certainly one way of interpreting my case

Explain like I’m really dumb

man first post about other mans is "I agree with that man". Me no like. Me vote to see what man say. Me no give reason to see what other mans do.

Okay, so I was right the first time, got it.

Literally your first and only engagement with reading players was "I like Epi's post" and you didn't follow up or extend the reasoning or vote or anything. So, yeah.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I feel like I really like this juliets case people have put forth because I tinfoil on that every game. She always feels very passive and aimless.

The problem is that she is usually town. Does she feel more passive here than normal? Kyle says he does but I haven't felt it myself.

[Lunalee]

Summary of my suspects: timmer, Sloonei, Tranq, INH, Luna.

PLAYA SALAD!

(joking, sort of.)

[Lunalee]

I feel like I really like this juliets case people have put forth because I tinfoil on that every game. She always feels very passive and aimless.

The problem is that she is usually town. Does she feel more passive here than normal? Kyle says he does but I haven't felt it myself.

Juliets probably bribes the host for a town role each game because she's too nice to play scum. :P

[Dragon D. Luffy]

hey here's an idea

if sloonei is bad for coordinating reads with temmie g-man, let's lynch g-man who some of us already have gripes with

temmie?

[S~V~S]

I feel like I really like this juliets case people have put forth because I tinfoil on that every game. She always feels very passive and aimless.

The problem is that she is usually town. Does she feel more passive here than normal? Kyle says he does but I haven't felt it myself.

What do you like about it? Your second line seems to be saying maybe you don't like it. Please be specific.

Yeah content is important too. I'm not very good at explaining why I toneread someone as good or bad, so sometimes I point to other factors like post count or whatever

I totally get this sentiment, I have this issue, too, but if you factor in content in this case, do you feel the same? He really seemed to be flailing around and in some cases saying things just to say them. I have been instrumental in a Sloonei mislynch (when I was a civ) so I don't trust my gut read as much on him.

If it was someone of whom you don't feel as confident of your read, would you feel the same?

Also, I trust your judgment in general (not sure about here yet); you were around for EOD, yes? What is your take on what happened?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I'm gonna [VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine because I trust him the most and I am always wrong.

we got some a-grade scum hunting happening here today folks

+1. I need to take notes to use this some time myself.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I feel like I really like this juliets case people have put forth because I tinfoil on that every game. She always feels very passive and aimless.

The problem is that she is usually town. Does she feel more passive here than normal? Kyle says he does but I haven't felt it myself.

What do you like about it? Your second line seems to be saying maybe you don't like it. Please be specific.

It's like I've always wanted to lynch juliets for being passive and the time has finally come.

But rationally this doesn't make sense to me.

[Sloonei]

Does anyone recall any games, recent or past, in which juliets was bad?

[S~V~S]

I feel like I really like this juliets case people have put forth because I tinfoil on that every game. She always feels very passive and aimless.

The problem is that she is usually town. Does she feel more passive here than normal? Kyle says he does but I haven't felt it myself.

What do you like about it? Your second line seems to be saying maybe you don't like it. Please be specific.

It's like I've always wanted to lynch juliets for being passive and the time has finally come.

But rationally this doesn't make sense to me.

You want to lynch someone for being passive in general, not becasue of anything she has specifically done in this game?

Am I interpreting you correctly?

You said you like the case, what about the case (other than Juliets passivity) did you like? What points did you like enough that you felt strongly enough about to say you liked the case?

[Kylemii]

i would also be down for a wolbre vote actually, a lot of his posts have felt like busy-work and he ignored my questions :\

Can you point out which of his posts sounded like busy work? I saw that you poked his long post where he made observations as "busy work". Where was your better one?

This post, of all the Wolbre votes I saw reads as the most hypocritical; voting for a guy becasue his player impressions post was not all that from a guy who made no posts even similar to it. If you had just said "save myself" that would have actually sounded better to me. This post sounds like trying to sound legit, and that's baddie.

hi svs, did you read the post in question? it wasn't full of impressions, it had like 4 impressions and no conclusions,and about a dozen question marks, and none of his future posts seemed to be informed by whatever work he put into making that one. it looked like work for the sake of work. he also spent time photoshopping the map to show changes which would have been an easy way to seem like he was contributing without actually doing anything

i also don't see why i would need to make a similar long post in this game in order to be able to judge other people's long posts? i've made them before.

[Kylemii]

(active in terms of being less passive)

I wouldn't have imagined that meaning for the word if you didn't clarify. Thanks.

no problem friendo

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I feel like I really like this juliets case people have put forth because I tinfoil on that every game. She always feels very passive and aimless.

The problem is that she is usually town. Does she feel more passive here than normal? Kyle says he does but I haven't felt it myself.

What do you like about it? Your second line seems to be saying maybe you don't like it. Please be specific.

It's like I've always wanted to lynch juliets for being passive and the time has finally come.

But rationally this doesn't make sense to me.

You want to lynch someone for being passive in general, not becasue of anything she has specifically done in this game?

Am I interpreting you correctly?

You said you like the case, what about the case (other than Juliets passivity) did you like? What points did you like enough that you felt strongly enough about to say you liked the case?

I'm saying I tinfoil juliets every game for being too passive and nice. Then she flips town.

Then someone said "juliets is being too passive and nice let's lynch her" and my first thought was "hell yeah".

But then I remembered she does that every game and tried to see if there was anything different but didn't see it.

The more correct answer is that I don't want to lynch juliets right now but I'm open to the idea if anyone can actually show me why she's different from past games.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Like, it bothers me that juliets's playstyle is so, so easy for a baddie to hide behind. So I want to catch that baddie some time.

[S~V~S]

Does anyone recall any games, recent or past, in which juliets was bad?

If it helps, here are are HOF stats:

juliets
15 Wins
11 as a civ
1 as a baddie
3 as an indy

I think if she was bad, I think I would see it. I don't recall the game, she or Tranq might, but I think it must have been an LC/BR game since she was our bad teammate and that's mostly all Tranq plays, and she was a nervous wreck, and it showed in the thread.

I am not seeing it, but I am not infallible.

So of you choose to make a case that she can rebut, I will be happy to hear it, and consider it. But that whole last minute thing where she had taken no votes or suspish up to that point, and clearly stated she would be absent at EOD, reeks of opportunism to me. THAT is what feels bad about all of this.

I am looking at the people who supported both the Wolbre and Juliet lynches (and I want to do violence to Wolbre, although I don't know him~ for self voting. Grrr but also lol).

Lunas content has modified my stance on her at this time, but her tone still pings me, perhaps I just need to see more of her.

Linki w/kyle, I did read the post, several times. It was better than most people did And I think before you want to lynch someone on day one for shitty content, your own content should be better. That still sounds to me like someone trying to justify a vote for him.

And that map critique he did, that reminded me of aapje, and that made me nostalgic for the ape

@DDL, so you cannot tell me what you liked about the case you said you liked except for, "Juliets is nice and passive, and baddies (generically,not specifically her) have been known to hide behind that?

[DharmaHelper]

I encourage anyone looking to lynch juliets for being "passive and nice" to look at this GOC http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... f=42&t=280

[ColinIsCool]

This was the main ping. Up to this point he had asked a mechanics question and said he voted for the N0 poll randomly. His first engagement with the actual game was to say he liked Epi's post on DDL, with no elaboration or follow up. Since I was going to be out of pocket all day, I figured I would rather have my vote out there and doing something than locked up tight and useless, so I voted. I didn't want to say my reason, because it gives him an easy out if he's mafia to make the suspicion go away. I wanted to see a response not based on my suspicion, and sure enough I got it. Not giving a reason also sort of forces people who jump on the wagon to supply their own reasoning, rather than just saying "yep I agree." D1 I think that's particularly valuable.

Is it scummy ... to say that I like a post?

That's certainly one way of interpreting my case

Explain like I’m really dumb

man first post about other mans is "I agree with that man". Me no like. Me vote to see what man say. Me no give reason to see what other mans do.

Okay, so I was right the first time, got it.

Literally your first and only engagement with reading players was "I like Epi's post" and you didn't follow up or extend the reasoning or vote or anything. So, yeah.

Well, I did vote for DDL, so wrong on that count. And I don’t know what explanation is necessary: I liked it because it made sense and I agreed with it, which should have been self-evident by me saying I liked it. Or would it look better of me if I quoted a bunch of posts, summarized them, did some color analysis, crunched the numbers on the last 6 DDL games played when Mercury is in retrograde, and came to the same conclusion?

Because I’m not doing that.

[ColinIsCool]

Juliets is playing identically to the way she has as town in every game I’ve played with her.

[Kylemii]

I feel like I really like this juliets case people have put forth because I tinfoil on that every game. She always feels very passive and aimless.

The problem is that she is usually town. Does she feel more passive here than normal? Kyle says he does but I haven't felt it myself.

compared to the Hogwart's game she feels like she's acquiescing more to other people's opinions rather than striking out with her own, but to be fair, i didn't read any of the first 17 pages of that game, so i don't remember any of the context, there may have been reasons for her to be more proactive there, or she could just be more busy here. i think it's preferable that we have more time to read her properly now.

[Kylemii]

Linki w/kyle, I did read the post, several times. It was better than most people did And I think before you want to lynch someone on day one for shitty content, your own content should be better. That still sounds to me like someone trying to justify a vote for him.

strongly disagree.

if i think someone is making fake content for the sake of it i'm not going to be scared away from voting for them for it because i've done less. i didn't vote wolbre because i thought his amount of effort wasn't enough, i voted for him because i thought it was fake and shadowboxing.

[speedchuck]

Summary of my suspects: timmer, Sloonei, Tranq, INH, Luna.

PLAYA SALAD!

(joking, sort of.)

Is it joking or is it not?

[mention]ColinIsCool[/mention] I'm not caught up, but I'm curious as to if whether you have elaborated on all of those people at one time or another or not.

[Sloonei]

With regards to the argument that the "timing" of my juliets case is suspect or opportunistic, I'd like to point out that in no way was my case on her an isolated event. I had been working on individual player ISOs for a couple of hours before then. Juliets happened to be the last in a series of ISOs I worked on, and she also happened to be the player I found most suspicious in the exercise. Here are the other posts I made. I think they provide necessary context for my frame of mind when I made my Juliets case:

Lunalee ISO ~9:30 PM
general declaration of my intentions to ISO more people ~9:50 PM
LoRab ISO ~10 PM
Jack ISO ~10:20 PM
Response to G-man's analysis naming Juliets as a suspect ~10:20 PM
juliets ISO ~10:40 PM

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Tbh I would say that the above posts look like preemptive TMI/ass-covering, but TMI isn't as much a thing in a two-scum-team game so idk and also sloonei's town but idk about luna.

Too much flip-flopping. I think nutella is bad.

Spoiler: show

[Turnip Head]

Yeah content is important too. I'm not very good at explaining why I toneread someone as good or bad, so sometimes I point to other factors like post count or whatever

I totally get this sentiment, I have this issue, too, but if you factor in content in this case, do you feel the same? He really seemed to be flailing around and in some cases saying things just to say them. I have been instrumental in a Sloonei mislynch (when I was a civ) so I don't trust my gut read as much on him.

If it was someone of whom you don't feel as confident of your read, would you feel the same?

I like scatterbrained Sloon. It's like sifting for gold, you end up with a lot of dirt but that's how you get the nuggets.

Also, I trust your judgment in general (not sure about here yet); you were around for EOD, yes? What is your take on what happened?

EoD was a glorious shitshow. We had a lot of people active but not much of a consensus. I think a Wilgy vote felt like a cop-out to some, and opinions on Sloonei were divided. wolbre came in and made a few jokes and suddenly that took off. Posting was so congested that I haven't fully processed how it all shook out.

[Sloonei]

Does anyone recall any games, recent or past, in which juliets was bad?

If it helps, here are are HOF stats:

juliets
15 Wins
11 as a civ
1 as a baddie
3 as an indy

I think if she was bad, I think I would see it. I don't recall the game, she or Tranq might, but I think it must have been an LC/BR game since she was our bad teammate and that's mostly all Tranq plays, and she was a nervous wreck, and it showed in the thread.

I am not seeing it, but I am not infallible.

Thanks. Do you know roughly how long ago this was? @[mention]juliets[/mention], do you remember any other games where you were bad?

[Sloonei]

I like scatterbrained Sloon. It's like sifting for gold, you end up with a lot of dirt but that's how you get the nuggets.

This is the most accurate description of my play I've ever seen. Thank you.

[speedchuck]

Tbh I would say that the above posts look like preemptive TMI/ass-covering, but TMI isn't as much a thing in a two-scum-team game so idk and also sloonei's town but idk about luna.

Too much flip-flopping. I think nutella is bad.

Spoiler: show

You got me with this one.

[Dana]

I have a few questions from way back in the thread:

What is supertowning?
What is a truth meta? Is it literally just saying "I'm gonna tell the truth"? Because isn't that the whole point of this game?


I'm still a few pages behind but I've been taking some notes and attempting to form some opinions so I will be back again soon but this game is wild.

Who is @Dana ?

Hi, I am!

Supatowning is when somebody looks like they are making a huge amount of town effort. Very subjective.

Truth meta is when a person refuses to lie in games ever. They just hate doing it. If they are mafia they will say "I'm mafia" if you ask their alignment. If they are town they are confirmed by default when they claim. In this site only Glorfindel does that, afaik, and he's not playing. Enrique did say he has a truth meta "for only one game" but that doesn't make sense, because like you said, that's the point of the game.

Wow, I love this concept, I didn't realize it was a strategy. Lying stresses me out so much. How does it work out when that guy is bad and outs himself? Are his teammates just like "ok bye rip"? Do hosts try to give him good roles on purpose? Does he ever lie anyway and then everyone believes him? I guess that would defeat the purpose of his whole thing, but it's possible for him to do. This is a great thing to learn exists.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Voting the unmysterium thing because I like to solve mysteries.