Inception [Inception Phase 4]

[Evenstar]

oh yeah I should make the noise

BWONNNNNGGGGGG

[Evenstar]

I do think my Rabbit read should be a little less secure given that he hasn't actually got a good reason to be not voting D1 even if he is the doublevoter, but IMO Epi's argument here boils down to "If they're mechanically confirmed town that just makes them look worse", which is absolutely garbage.

And if you're admitting that my reasoning for questioning iaafr last night was ultimately fair, why not engage iaafr yourself?

Perhaps you will have better results than I got.

I feel like the rabbit is scared enough with both you and dom getting up in its fur, and I'm confident enough in my read to let it go another day

also see my theory above

unanimity is bad because it means the scum agree

[iaafr]

literally everyone except you and I are scum

[iaafr]

you and me

whatever

[iaafr]

[Evenstar]

i love you

no hetero

[iaafr]

btw i appreciate you calling doms posts at me dickish because having somebody to corroborate what im seeing really helps me feel saner in these situations

[Evenstar]

btw i appreciate you calling doms posts at me dickish because having somebody to corroborate what im seeing really helps me feel saner in these situations

it's no problem

incidentally, what's your latest read of Pawn? I want to check my intuition with someone who isn't Syndicate

[iaafr]

i keep wavering but ultimately i wanna believe he's town who has a very similar view of the game to me and he's kinda playing his cards close to his chest in a towny way

honestly anybody with all syndicate in bottom 3 is fine with me at this point

[iaafr]

he might have 2, whatever

[iaafr]

i keep wavering but ultimately i wanna believe he's town who has a very similar view of the game to me and he's kinda playing his cards close to his chest in a towny way

honestly anybody with all syndicate in bottom 3 is fine with me at this point

i mean i dont want to sound antagonistic towards the syndicate as a site or anything but

literally everybody seeming to entertain voting me is syndicate and i still dont find any of their pushes good or perspective that believable

some of them have good posts at good moments but what am i supposed to do etc i still want to kill people scumreading me over people townreading me and its legitimately weird af that all of them keep pressuring me

[Evenstar]

oh, uh, rule of three

make that pawn, epi and radishes

[iaafr]

you only have to rule of three when youre unambiguously projecting sus-enough-to-vote on somebody i think

[iaafr]

i think epis push on me today feels outing but i dont have meta on him

i feel radishes process is still town and he's just not redpilled on all of the syndicate being scum like me

[Epignosis]

i keep wavering but ultimately i wanna believe he's town who has a very similar view of the game to me and he's kinda playing his cards close to his chest in a towny way

honestly anybody with all syndicate in bottom 3 is fine with me at this point

i mean i dont want to sound antagonistic towards the syndicate as a site or anything but

literally everybody seeming to entertain voting me is syndicate and i still dont find any of their pushes good or perspective that believable

some of them have good posts at good moments but what am i supposed to do etc i still want to kill people scumreading me over people townreading me and its legitimately weird af that all of them keep pressuring me

To be clear, last night I invited you to participate:

I have a rabbit in my sights. Maybe I should. Maybe I shouldn't.

i still think pushes on me are lazy and if you really try to get in my head my thoughts are clearly real

the fact that i like to post noise doesnt change that ive actually been trying really hard this game idk

irritation with the game kinda spiraled out of control last phase but not in a scum indicative way?

i think doms and colins pushes on me are the worst and they are also the least transparent players with their reads on the rest of the game

Here was my summary of you:

There are a few positives up in here for iaafr. Despite the strong claim that Dragomir was a civilian, iaafr peeled himself away from that, commenting on Dragomir’s exchange with Evenstar. I’d like to think iaafr keeping the light on Dragomir was instrumental in getting him lynched. I also don’t mind that iaafr didn’t let the thread stagnate as the deadline loomed (not that it needed his help to avoid stagnation, but it’s nice to see).

However, there are certainly some things he’s going to have to answer for. The lynch poll is the primary means by which civilians win. No one had any justifiable reason to abstain from the vote but boo. That stinks. I also invite others to look at iaafr’s apparent change in attitude regarding Dragomir, going from civilian to bad and ultimately not voting him at a critical juncture (two minutes until the end of the poll).

That latter issue is a big one for me. Civilians who don't vote are useless civilians. They fail to lynch mafia and fail to give other civilians a means of understanding them. That's a double whammy. That's why, in this particular scenario, you make my list.

You next post was this:

i mean this game still feels so troll man

thats the last of the whining ill do this phase i promise but man this is a troll ass game right now

I tried to get you to embrace this thing as a different experience, and things spiraled from there.

No, I will not call you a civilian because you are "spewing town."

I believe your refusal to vote Dragomir when it mattered makes you a suspect. I will not relent on that point until either I have evidence that points otherwise or you are dead.

[iaafr]

epi keeps acting like i should think his read on me matters

[Epignosis]

And I'm not going to say anything more about that. I'm just making it plain where I stand.

[Epignosis]

My own personal frustration is that those whom I would happily and gleefully go after right now are depriving us of their company.

[Pawn Lelouch]

he might have 2, whatever

What does this mean? Can't quite parse the meaning.

[Epignosis]

i think epis push on me today feels outing but i dont have meta on him

i feel radishes process is still town and he's just not redpilled on all of the syndicate being scum like me

I don't know what this means.

[iaafr]

he might have 2, whatever

What does this mean? Can't quite parse the meaning.

i dont remember whether you have 2 or 3 syndicate in your bottom 3 but either way is fine with me

i think epis push on me today feels outing but i dont have meta on him

i feel radishes process is still town and he's just not redpilled on all of the syndicate being scum like me

I don't know what this means.

i think your push on me is strongly scum indicative and i dont find your stubbornness on this manner town and even if you are town you're very visibly anti-town in direction to me so far and bringing up my d1 vote over and over again isn't what i want to see out of players i'd want to take with me into later phases

so you can die and you will always be in my bottom 3 today, probably

[Epignosis]

i think epis push on me today feels outing but i dont have meta on him

i feel radishes process is still town and he's just not redpilled on all of the syndicate being scum like me

I don't know what this means.

i think your push on me is strongly scum indicative and i dont find your stubbornness on this manner town and even if you are town you're very visibly anti-town in direction to me so far and bringing up my d1 vote over and over again isn't what i want to see out of players i'd want to take with me into later phases

so you can die and you will always be in my bottom 3 today, probably

[Pawn Lelouch]

@Pawn Lelouch I'd like to hear your latest thoughts on Iaafr

Epi's put forwards the argument that rabbit potentially being the doublevoter actually makes them look worse, not better

Should I be scumreading Epi or Rabbit more for this? 'cause right now I'm reading that as reflecting quite badly on Epi

I do think my Rabbit read should be a little less secure given that he hasn't actually got a good reason to be not voting D1 even if he is the doublevoter, but IMO Epi's argument here boils down to "If they're mechanically confirmed town that just makes them look worse", which is absolutely garbage.

Well, iaafr's stated reasoning of survival still holds up and is arguably even more valuable considering the value of one late game. There is still the issue of not voting when he could have clinched it but with his hints of pulling off of 112, Drago was pretty much publicly in the lead so there was still some push for that. So I feel solid on iaafr.

And like, I can see the angle that Epi is pushing for here, it's just one that I disagree with when factoring in the survival stance. So it's a small ding.

[Pawn Lelouch]

i dont remember whether you have 2 or 3 syndicate in your bottom 3 but either way is fine with me

3. Since my top 4 are myself, you, ES, and MR in that order. And everyone else qualifies as Syndicate as far as I'm aware.

[iaafr]

it was a 10-7 vote man it was clinched

[Evenstar]

my gut is yelling that pawn is town

rabbit is never scum, I'm locking that read in

if pawn has fooled all of me and rabbit and epi they deserve to win

I think I'm being overparanoid about epi

Jack is never scum because he's being unanimously scumread, also he's actually fucking playing today and is I think the only person to really push for an exit from this crap PoE

if sprityo faked that emotional outburst yesterday they deserve to win, that was super damn genuine, and they are in fact contributing and doing the work, their translation of dom was helpful today in particular

dom is an asshole and I feel like the syndicate are missing his lack of real work because they're just used to his abrasive nature and don't want to interact with it too much

radishes... I don't wanna suspect radishes, it feels too easy after they scumread me yesterday, but it's the truth that they have just done less work than many people, and their pushes against epi and iaafr feel awkward, and I personally like them but... something does not feel right.

colin ... I feel has good mafia equity but he's being pushed by non-syndi people and I want to like him. He's been asking good questions and I can see a town him existing.

so let's go back to epi again, what is he really

... I think it would be astonishing if a player like Grapefruit had a scumgame like mine. That's what I think, on careful review. Epi is town. And if he's not, he deserves to win.

so then...

{Me, Pawn, Epi, Rabbit, Jack, Sprityo}

{Dom, Radishes, Colin}

I've rederived my way back into the crap PoE again

[iaafr]

... I think it would be astonishing if a player like Grapefruit had a scumgame like mine. That's what I think, on careful review. Epi is town. And if he's not, he deserves to win.

where did grapefruit come from wtf

[iaafr]

i dont understand that quoted line at all

how does epi deserve to win if hes scum wtf he just pushed me on a day 1 vote on day 3 for like 3 pages

[Evenstar]

[mention]iaafr[/mention], [mention]Pawn Lelouch[/mention]
help me out here, what am I doing wrong
this PoE sucks but I can't seem to see the game a different way

[Jackofhearts2005]

Dom, serious question - what's your play here? If you're town, you're not building any more of a case against iaafr, you're just being a dick. And that's fine, but it's not helpful.

I suspect you, the rabbit, mac, hyena, and jack.

That's my angle.

hyena is town
iaafr is town
you're scum

jack and radishes could go either way, rn I'm leaning towards radishes

Why?

Hyena is town because I know how he plays and he's town hyena
iaafr is town because I'm mindmelding with them, and also for other reasons
you're scum because you're not playing the game and hiding that behind fake aggression while trying to buddy up to epignosis
jack is scum because he's not playing the game, but he's doing better with making his thoughts clear today
I'm tinfoiling radishes because he pushed me hard yesterday and it feels like he reversed on me a bit too quickly

Which bits?

I ended up coming around to their reads on people both D1 and D2, I can't name the specific ones off the top of my head. I think they were talking about epi being potentially scum? In any case their thought process is good and I don't see their current attitude being easily fakable. I think they're getting scumread by the syndicate contingent because their playstyle is aggressively non-syndi.

in fact my latest read chart says the following:
- iaafr is hated by syndicate people
- dom and colin are hated by non-syndicate people
- you're hated by literally everyone

which says to me that
1: the iaafr, dom and colin scumreads are all quite possibly garbage caused by clashing playstyles
2: you're blatant mislynch-bait given that absolutely nobody is sticking up for you, literally everyone has you in their bottom 3
3: I ought to be looking for scum in my middle or top tiers.

so my spicy spicy potential-scum list rn is
{Pawn, Epi, Radishes, Sprityo}

though honestly Dom keeps creeping back in just because he's been such an unjustified dick to Rabbit.

I hear what you’re saying and you look like you’re saying “Jack is town and 2 of his bottom 3 are probably scum.”

[Pawn Lelouch]

it was a 10-7 vote man it was clinched

LC + Hyena were literal last 20 seconds so it was closer than it appears in the totals but yes, it was won even without them. I was largely agreeing with why you did it.

[Evenstar]

... I think it would be astonishing if a player like Grapefruit had a scumgame like mine. That's what I think, on careful review. Epi is town. And if he's not, he deserves to win.

where did grapefruit come from wtf

epi feels analytical like grapefruit21 or pawn IMO

but if he's scum he's faking a ton of emotions

these two things don't seem to jibe

[iaafr]

my actual worldview = all syndicate = scum and they need to get my lynched somehow as part of their wincon so yea im not saner than you if we're going by conventional sensibilities here

[Evenstar]

I suspect you, the rabbit, mac, hyena, and jack.

That's my angle.

hyena is town
iaafr is town
you're scum

jack and radishes could go either way, rn I'm leaning towards radishes

Why?

Hyena is town because I know how he plays and he's town hyena
iaafr is town because I'm mindmelding with them, and also for other reasons
you're scum because you're not playing the game and hiding that behind fake aggression while trying to buddy up to epignosis
jack is scum because he's not playing the game, but he's doing better with making his thoughts clear today
I'm tinfoiling radishes because he pushed me hard yesterday and it feels like he reversed on me a bit too quickly

Which bits?

I ended up coming around to their reads on people both D1 and D2, I can't name the specific ones off the top of my head. I think they were talking about epi being potentially scum? In any case their thought process is good and I don't see their current attitude being easily fakable. I think they're getting scumread by the syndicate contingent because their playstyle is aggressively non-syndi.

in fact my latest read chart says the following:
- iaafr is hated by syndicate people
- dom and colin are hated by non-syndicate people
- you're hated by literally everyone

which says to me that
1: the iaafr, dom and colin scumreads are all quite possibly garbage caused by clashing playstyles
2: you're blatant mislynch-bait given that absolutely nobody is sticking up for you, literally everyone has you in their bottom 3
3: I ought to be looking for scum in my middle or top tiers.

so my spicy spicy potential-scum list rn is
{Pawn, Epi, Radishes, Sprityo}

though honestly Dom keeps creeping back in just because he's been such an unjustified dick to Rabbit.

I hear what you’re saying and you look like you’re saying “Jack is town and 2 of his bottom 3 are probably scum.”

talk to me about my rederivation of this shitty, shitty PoE

which of my assumptions are wrong

[iaafr]

... I think it would be astonishing if a player like Grapefruit had a scumgame like mine. That's what I think, on careful review. Epi is town. And if he's not, he deserves to win.

where did grapefruit come from wtf

epi feels analytical like grapefruit21 or pawn IMO

but if he's scum he's faking a ton of emotions

these two things don't seem to jibe

which of his emotions are town-perspective and cant be genuine scum perspective emotions and/or genuine emotions sublimated into ones that pretend to be town

[Evenstar]

... I think it would be astonishing if a player like Grapefruit had a scumgame like mine. That's what I think, on careful review. Epi is town. And if he's not, he deserves to win.

where did grapefruit come from wtf

epi feels analytical like grapefruit21 or pawn IMO

but if he's scum he's faking a ton of emotions

these two things don't seem to jibe

which of his emotions are town-perspective and cant be genuine scum perspective emotions and/or genuine emotions sublimated into ones that pretend to be town

No, that's not the point

the point is that I think he's naturally an observer-type or analyst-type player, and therefore it's hard for him to fake emotion and he'll prefer not to do it

then there's like four pages of very heated emotions today

I don't think the emotions themselves are unfakable, if that was Hyena doing that I would lynch it instantly

but I feel like Epi specifically would have a difficult time doing that

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] you're a syndi, am I right about Epi's character here or am I blowing smoke?

[iaafr]

i mean im tunneling and disagree but u do u i guess

i dont think he got nearly as emotional as i did, just displayed some irritation and obstinance, nothing i couldnt see a typical scum player fake

[iaafr]

and i mean the irritation and obstinance wouldnt even be faked per se

[Evenstar]

and i mean the irritation and obstinance wouldnt even be faked per se

... yeah, on review your side of this is a lot more emotionally fraught than his

he doesn't get much above a simmer and some casual shade

... not a good look for him, honestly. Maybe he's just that controlled. He is a professor.

... that feels like bullshit when I say it.

Epi can remain a suspect.

[Evenstar]

{Dom, Radishes, Epi}

[iaafr]

it's funny you did that thing where you thought the push was rly bad when you first read it but then you started to color it as less scummy and scummy as you slowly forgot it but when you reread you're reminded his part in it was actually scummy

I do that with people sometimes

[iaafr]

wow I did a thing that changed somebody's scumread of somebody

that might be a first all game

[Evenstar]

wow I did a thing that changed somebody's scumread of somebody

that might be a first all game

BWONNNNNGGGGGGG

[Evenstar]

{Dom, Radishes, Epi}

yeah, this PoE feels much less bullshit than the one I had before

it's probably still wrong but at least it's not cowardly as well

[Epignosis]

dom is an asshole and I feel like the syndicate are missing his lack of real work because they're just used to his abrasive nature and don't want to interact with it too much

Wild.

[Epignosis]

And apparently I am twelve grapefruits.

[Epignosis]

Or twenty-one grapefruits.

[Evenstar]

dom is an asshole and I feel like the syndicate are missing his lack of real work because they're just used to his abrasive nature and don't want to interact with it too much

Wild.

If you think I'm missing something quote me it

I read Sprityo's summaries and yeah he has some stuff, but it's poor IMO

defend your views, don't just shade vaguely

[Epignosis]

dom is an asshole and I feel like the syndicate are missing his lack of real work because they're just used to his abrasive nature and don't want to interact with it too much

Wild.

If you think I'm missing something quote me it

I read Sprityo's summaries and yeah he has some stuff, but it's poor IMO

defend your views, don't just shade vaguely

I think you assume everything I say is an opinion about someone's alignment. It isn't.

And as for defending a view, that seems to be overrated wherever The Others come from. I've defended several views and have been shit on. That's fine. I'm not getting worked up over it. In the end either I win or I don't. It's a game on the Internet. Doesn't pay my bills, thank God.

[Epignosis]

I am to engage in some offline amuse for an hour or perhaps two. I also have to finalize my grades this evening for the first quarter. I will be available again then.