Inception [END]

[Long Con]

Ok, so some juliets ISO pulls, focusing on Elephant stuff...

So Elephant and Faraday did not vote for Drago. Was there someone else?

I did not.

yeah but I consider your reason acceptable. Creature did not either but I still read him town.

Juliets narrowed the focus of Drago nonvoters to Elephant and DF, disregarding boo and Creature, both town. Could be viewed as TMI, but I go for the town lean here because of narrowing the focus on Elephant.

i need to tone down the aggression. i'm sorry, that was uncharacteristic of me

"i'm sorry my aggression makes me look bad." Is that your only thought?

That's kind of a misrepresentation tbh

He does not say "I am sorry I left you alone". He says "I am sorry I don't look like I normally do". At least, that is how I understand it. He does not address any of us.

I read him as genuinely sorry he was a factor in my melting down if that makes any difference.

Takes the side against Elephant's attempt to lynch vanity. Town lean again.

I'm moving back to Faraday for the moment.

[VOTE: DFaraday] aubergine

why did the dfaraday wagon completely die?

I don't know, I just moved back. I would rather land on someone who didn't vote Drago.

Ended up on DF and not Elephant. Scum lean for that one, looks like the "Elephant or DF" post earlier could be distancing.

The rest of Day 3 juliets mostly casually engages Elephant, questioning here and there, but never suspecting. She doesn't like it said that she copied Elephant's reads. Slightly scummish? She then votes vanity, which would have lynched him that Day if Ty4on hadn't foolishly shot himself in the foot.

Here's how I see it, juliets: people start to vote vanity, then you made a couple of posts that broadcast a likely vanity vote. You said you were going to "eat and read through vanity again" which sounds good, but you don't give any analysis beyond asking Ty4on about vanity's emotional meta. Ty4on posted a couple of times before your next post and yet you didn't mention it again or @ - mention him or anything. Instead you just hop on the vanity train and point at me.

You're correct I did not post an analysis of vanity, I was tired and it didn't seem necessary. I read through him, noticed there was a lot of emotion in his posts and asked Ty4on the question. I pointed at you because I have been uneasy about you. I have tried to collect some thoughts/questions this morning and this afternoon which I will post in a minute. Maybe you are town and I am just paranoid about you.

Your earlier posts today were showing a growing scum-read on Ty4on, and very few other strong stances on anyone's alignment. You engage Elephant about vanity but you don't really give your own opinion on them very strongly, just question-prompts. Did you decide to start focussing on vanity because of the growing number of vanity voters? Why do you suspect vanity more than Ty4on?

Oh you were right LC I didn't see this or several other posts on this page.

I can't remember exactly when I decided I needed to focus on vanity but the votes that persuaded me were hyena's and Nanook's, especially when Nanook moved. At some point in this day phase I had reviewed nova's posts and decided some seemed scummy but on the whole I wasn't overwhelmed with scumminess as I remember being in the moments that he was posting. I'm pretty sure I posted in the thread what my feeling was about his posts. So, I decided to give Ty4on a chance today and see what he had to say. I'm not sure that was the right decision at this point because Ty4on hasn't jumped into discussion as much as I hoped he would. Plus part of me wants to give that other thread the info of who he is hoping that would be useful. He would probably be my alternate vote if vanity came into the thread and gave good responses for the suspicion on him.

I don't like this post much. I questioned juliets about how much her vanity vote relied on Elephant, and she directs the reasoning as sheeping two town players, and then sets up Ty4on as her alternate vote. No mention of Elephant in her answer at all. Scum lean.

Well that sucked.

But it looks like Nanook may have successfully stopped a kill???

Either way, my choice is clear and has been clear since the lynch post. I regret my part in how that went down.

[VOTE: vanity.] aubergine

Or the vig didn't kill lol, I kinda doubt he would have blocked them? Idk I'm clearly confused lol

I'm thinking it's more the vig didn't kill.

I will join you in a vanity vote. I feel bamboozled.

[VOTE: vanity] aubergine

This is the start of Day 4, where juliets instantly sheeps nutella's aggressive vote on vanity. "I feel bamboozled"? Scum lean. I know that wasn't an Elephant interaction, but it's notable enough when I saw it, given we now know that vanity and nutella are both town here.

That's all the time I have right now, I am going to sleep. I will continue this tomorrow if I can make time after catching up.

[Epignosis]

Epi could definitely be mafia. I said as much yesterday.

The worst thing civilians can do is ignore the dead mafia. That's exactly what happened yesterday. Stop ignoring the dead mafia. Find their teammates.

This is a post a mafia makes more than a townie makes. The tone of it, the message...this is a scum trying to look solvey.

And to answer his post contained within,

-Connection to Drago: Epi was a 112 voter. It came really early, but it was still a strange vote, considering his (later) justification was 'Eh. Would lynch. (Great start, right?)'. He was around at that EoD and barely engaged in the Drago/112 wagons; he himself was a counter-wagon and he didn't even vote Drago to self-pres.

-Connection to Evenstar: At the start of D2 Epi posted his wall of Drago-connections for each player. His one for Evenstar was bleh. He quoted a bunch of NAI posts, said they looked good, and concluded with 'I don't think I need to see more' (can't find link, sorry). It was lacking, like he didn't expect us to read his posts. I called him out on it immediately, as I had clocked Eva as scum at that point. Later, in D5, as I again made a push on Eva, he again insisted he would not vote for her for a series of circumstantial reasons. He didn't put his foot down or anything, just commented on why it was a bad vote and moved on.

-Connection to Elephant: TBD, I don't have time this morning to trawl through his ISO. But someone said he defended him? He certainly didn't vote for him despite there being two very clear wagon choices at EoD.


Epignosis is likely scum. I'm not as confident as I was with Eva, but of the remaining players he is low on my list.

I'll save you the trouble.

I didn't want Elephant lynched.

Now, if you please, answer my four questions. If you believe I'm bad, you have to believe these things are true...

[Epignosis]

Final point: why do people keep clinging to suggested role claims? Michelle could easily not have been the cop, and was just certain about Elephant. Just like Eva was not a mason and iaafr was not the doublevoter.

But I'm not sure resolving Pawn is best at this stage, although I agree he's a scum candidate. He's just sort of floating through the game at this point, though.

Epi or juliets first. I'll finish ISOing them properly later.

If you lynch me, just remember I told you so.

[Epignosis]

LC, yes, juliets doesn't seem right.

[Epignosis]

Hey Radishes, what's your opinion on iaafr?

Aw hell, nevermind, you were a Hyena voter.

[Epignosis]

Long day at work tomorrow.

If I get lynched over iaafr, so help me God.

[MacDougall]

Long day at work tomorrow.

If I get lynched over iaafr, so help me God.

Dude you have loads of shit against you. Just acting like you don't and getting stroppy is doing nothing to change my mind lol.

[juliets]

I'm going to start today's investigations with MacDougall, who did fuck all the entire Day (except give me shit) but appeared at just the right time to help Hyena to the noose instead of iaa-"I want to die no I don't"-fr.

Did he supatown in the dream levels? I will look back at his days 5 and 6.

so a lot of people put suspicion on dom given his reverse attacking. but I think the real moment people did the turn around is when him and I hashed it out on Day 3

sprityo, I was asking about Mac. Are you talking about Dom?

[juliets]

why is dom dead and not me?

Why not? Why should you have been killed over him?

Dom did have "better" content than quin

Yes, I do think Dom died over [mention]Quin[/mention] because he was more of a force within the game thread.

[juliets]

People who are ignoring the questions I've asked them leave me no choice but to lean scum on them.

This post.

juliets knows people have lives. This is an excuse.

Furthermore, I ask her to comment specifically on MacDougall, and this is the best I get:

I really don't know what to make of this Epi vs. Mac thing. Mac makes a comment somewhere in one of those post walls that Epi explained things nicely to Elephant while only hurling insults at others. I feel like whatever that thing was that happened in the dream levels is affecting people's reads of each other so I'm not fully trusting of either of their reads. I really want to know what Jack and Master Radishes are seeing since they are from that world.

No stance and talking about dream levels that don't mean anything at this stage.

People are just ignoring my questions about them. Then they can come back later and say "juliets asks questions but never follows through". Hyena was one person ignoring me and I had asked him a question that was important to my read on him.

I wasn't answering your question on Mac. I was giving my feeling about the situation.

Anyway, I'm not scum no matter what people think. I just haven't played well.

[juliets]

Why aren’t we going back to Evenstar’s “mechanical” clearing of iaafr? How does that not make iaafr look terrible?

Are you talking about her assertion that he was the double voter? iaafr says she was pocketing him. Do you think that's possible?

[juliets]

I swear we're not teammates.

And I swear I'm not teammates with Elephant.

[juliets]

Also my Vote yesterday was Cause i wouldn't be able to Come back and Honestly thought that i could get some questionable reactions with it was confident it would result in either mine or Dom's death and didn't (not counting night killled)

Didn't get any BIG reactions from it like i was hopeing for more but didn't get any really

I don't believe you.

Go ahead and not no one seems to care what i have to say about anything this game despite a multitude of reasons to trust me and quite alot of revealed town having called me Town but go ahead and ignore me and cause more mislynchs.

Should have just killed the neutral yesterday.

I do care what you have to say.

[juliets]

I'm going to give MacDougall this much: He's tying me to mafia lynches.

While I would love to lynch him, he's doing what I asked all of you to do in spite of himself.

Talk about juliets now.

Fencesitting is the word that comes to mind. Someone said it before

I try to consider everything before making a decision. If that's fence sitting then I am guilty. I think you're taking a hallmark of my play and trying to make it look back by sticking a bad label on it.

[juliets]

What's your opinion on MacDougall?

i think Mac is Town and you two are reading each other wrong

I lean this way too Epi. Town/Town

[juliets]

Whoever it is that's saying Epi and I are both town is probably scum. That is such a TMI bullshit scummy read.

I don't understand why it is TMI bullshit.

[MacDougall]

Whoever it is that's saying Epi and I are both town is probably scum. That is such a TMI bullshit scummy read.

I don't understand why it is TMI bullshit.

Hedgy afraid to draw your lines wishy washy.

[MacDougall]

I'm going to give MacDougall this much: He's tying me to mafia lynches.

While I would love to lynch him, he's doing what I asked all of you to do in spite of himself.

Talk about juliets now.

Fencesitting is the word that comes to mind. Someone said it before

I try to consider everything before making a decision. If that's fence sitting then I am guilty. I think you're taking a hallmark of my play and trying to make it look back by sticking a bad label on it.

So you think Sprityo is bad?

[juliets]

I don't have time to do a proper casing of juliets now, but she is also a heavy scumlean. She's part of the group that MLed vanity and co., and in particular she slipped onto the vanity wagon way too easily and only showed hesitation when others did first. For the past phase and a half she's been sitting in the corner being chatty but generally just raising uncontroversial talking points, asking softball questions, and trying not to be noticed.

There were a lot of us who mislynched vanity, including nutella.

I don't know how you consider my questions softball. For example, I asked Hyena to explain his Elephant voting which he never answered. That's a softball questions? And how could you say I'm trying to not be noticed? Whenever I'm here I'm posting.

[juliets]

Ok, so some juliets ISO pulls, focusing on Elephant stuff...

So Elephant and Faraday did not vote for Drago. Was there someone else?

I did not.

yeah but I consider your reason acceptable. Creature did not either but I still read him town.

Juliets narrowed the focus of Drago nonvoters to Elephant and DF, disregarding boo and Creature, both town. Could be viewed as TMI, but I go for the town lean here because of narrowing the focus on Elephant.

i need to tone down the aggression. i'm sorry, that was uncharacteristic of me

"i'm sorry my aggression makes me look bad." Is that your only thought?

That's kind of a misrepresentation tbh

He does not say "I am sorry I left you alone". He says "I am sorry I don't look like I normally do". At least, that is how I understand it. He does not address any of us.

I read him as genuinely sorry he was a factor in my melting down if that makes any difference.

Takes the side against Elephant's attempt to lynch vanity. Town lean again.

I'm moving back to Faraday for the moment.

[VOTE: DFaraday] aubergine

why did the dfaraday wagon completely die?

I don't know, I just moved back. I would rather land on someone who didn't vote Drago.

Ended up on DF and not Elephant. Scum lean for that one, looks like the "Elephant or DF" post earlier could be distancing.

The rest of Day 3 juliets mostly casually engages Elephant, questioning here and there, but never suspecting. She doesn't like it said that she copied Elephant's reads. Slightly scummish? She then votes vanity, which would have lynched him that Day if Ty4on hadn't foolishly shot himself in the foot.

Here's how I see it, juliets: people start to vote vanity, then you made a couple of posts that broadcast a likely vanity vote. You said you were going to "eat and read through vanity again" which sounds good, but you don't give any analysis beyond asking Ty4on about vanity's emotional meta. Ty4on posted a couple of times before your next post and yet you didn't mention it again or @ - mention him or anything. Instead you just hop on the vanity train and point at me.

You're correct I did not post an analysis of vanity, I was tired and it didn't seem necessary. I read through him, noticed there was a lot of emotion in his posts and asked Ty4on the question. I pointed at you because I have been uneasy about you. I have tried to collect some thoughts/questions this morning and this afternoon which I will post in a minute. Maybe you are town and I am just paranoid about you.

Your earlier posts today were showing a growing scum-read on Ty4on, and very few other strong stances on anyone's alignment. You engage Elephant about vanity but you don't really give your own opinion on them very strongly, just question-prompts. Did you decide to start focussing on vanity because of the growing number of vanity voters? Why do you suspect vanity more than Ty4on?

Oh you were right LC I didn't see this or several other posts on this page.

I can't remember exactly when I decided I needed to focus on vanity but the votes that persuaded me were hyena's and Nanook's, especially when Nanook moved. At some point in this day phase I had reviewed nova's posts and decided some seemed scummy but on the whole I wasn't overwhelmed with scumminess as I remember being in the moments that he was posting. I'm pretty sure I posted in the thread what my feeling was about his posts. So, I decided to give Ty4on a chance today and see what he had to say. I'm not sure that was the right decision at this point because Ty4on hasn't jumped into discussion as much as I hoped he would. Plus part of me wants to give that other thread the info of who he is hoping that would be useful. He would probably be my alternate vote if vanity came into the thread and gave good responses for the suspicion on him.

I don't like this post much. I questioned juliets about how much her vanity vote relied on Elephant, and she directs the reasoning as sheeping two town players, and then sets up Ty4on as her alternate vote. No mention of Elephant in her answer at all. Scum lean.

Well that sucked.

But it looks like Nanook may have successfully stopped a kill???

Either way, my choice is clear and has been clear since the lynch post. I regret my part in how that went down.

[VOTE: vanity.] aubergine

Or the vig didn't kill lol, I kinda doubt he would have blocked them? Idk I'm clearly confused lol

I'm thinking it's more the vig didn't kill.

I will join you in a vanity vote. I feel bamboozled.

[VOTE: vanity] aubergine

This is the start of Day 4, where juliets instantly sheeps nutella's aggressive vote on vanity. "I feel bamboozled"? Scum lean. I know that wasn't an Elephant interaction, but it's notable enough when I saw it, given we now know that vanity and nutella are both town here.

That's all the time I have right now, I am going to sleep. I will continue this tomorrow if I can make time after catching up.

I'm not sure how the bamboozled is scum? I felt like vanity had pocketed me and gotten me to move my vote to someone who was town. I think it's natural to feel this way after that kind of lynch. I'll try and answer to all these in a little while.

[juliets]

LC, yes, juliets doesn't seem right.

And if you lynch me just remember I told YOU so. I am not scum, I am town.

[juliets]

Whoever it is that's saying Epi and I are both town is probably scum. That is such a TMI bullshit scummy read.

I don't understand why it is TMI bullshit.

Hedgy afraid to draw your lines wishy washy.

But...you're saying I have to choose one of you as bad. Why can't both of you be town? For that matter, why can't both of you be scum and just engaged in a distancing ploy? What happened between you two in the dream world?

Also and more importantly, CONGRATULATIONS FOR WINNING THE BUISNESS AWARD!

[juliets]

I'm going to give MacDougall this much: He's tying me to mafia lynches.

While I would love to lynch him, he's doing what I asked all of you to do in spite of himself.

Talk about juliets now.

Fencesitting is the word that comes to mind. Someone said it before

I try to consider everything before making a decision. If that's fence sitting then I am guilty. I think you're taking a hallmark of my play and trying to make it look back by sticking a bad label on it.

So you think Sprityo is bad?

I'm not leaning that way currently but I dislike when people use inflammatory words or language. Labeling my process as fence sitting is an example of that.

[juliets]

I have an odd schedule today and tomorrow. I will be out this morning and then may have to go into work this afternoon. If so I won't be around until later.

Tomorrow I have to work all day. I'll be home before EOD but won't have a lot of time to catch up before the deadline.

[juliets]

Epignosis, I will ask you the same questions as I asked Mac. What happened between you two in the dream world? What were your interactions like? Did you suspect each other then? Tell me everything you can about what was going on there.

[sprityo]

I'm going to start today's investigations with MacDougall, who did fuck all the entire Day (except give me shit) but appeared at just the right time to help Hyena to the noose instead of iaa-"I want to die no I don't"-fr.

Did he supatown in the dream levels? I will look back at his days 5 and 6.

so a lot of people put suspicion on dom given his reverse attacking. but I think the real moment people did the turn around is when him and I hashed it out on Day 3

sprityo, I was asking about Mac. Are you talking about Dom?

yeah, for some reason i thought we were talking about Dom

[sprityo]

I'm going to give MacDougall this much: He's tying me to mafia lynches.

While I would love to lynch him, he's doing what I asked all of you to do in spite of himself.

Talk about juliets now.

Fencesitting is the word that comes to mind. Someone said it before

I try to consider everything before making a decision. If that's fence sitting then I am guilty. I think you're taking a hallmark of my play and trying to make it look back by sticking a bad label on it.

I mean, nutella vouched for your town-ness so that's worth something.

[sprityo]

im confident in my pool of iaafr/pawn/LLD/Epi

everyone else is town as far as im concerned

[juliets]

Oh I see I made a mistake. Sorry [mention]MacDougall[/mention] I thought discord was saying you won the award. I misread. You looked handsome though!

[juliets]

im confident in my pool of iaafr/pawn/LLD/Epi

everyone else is town as far as im concerned

sprityo, the only thing that makes me uncomfortable about this grouping is it means we had only 1 scum in our surface level group. There were 11 of us total, and we know Elephant was scum. It seems like we should have had at least one more which would mean either me, Long Con or TLib. I assure you it is not me.

[Epignosis]

Long day at work tomorrow.

If I get lynched over iaafr, so help me God.

Dude you have loads of shit against you. Just acting like you don't and getting stroppy is doing nothing to change my mind lol.

How about focusing on the shit for me, hmm?

[Epignosis]

People who are ignoring the questions I've asked them leave me no choice but to lean scum on them.

This post.

juliets knows people have lives. This is an excuse.

Furthermore, I ask her to comment specifically on MacDougall, and this is the best I get:

I really don't know what to make of this Epi vs. Mac thing. Mac makes a comment somewhere in one of those post walls that Epi explained things nicely to Elephant while only hurling insults at others. I feel like whatever that thing was that happened in the dream levels is affecting people's reads of each other so I'm not fully trusting of either of their reads. I really want to know what Jack and Master Radishes are seeing since they are from that world.

No stance and talking about dream levels that don't mean anything at this stage.

People are just ignoring my questions about them. Then they can come back later and say "juliets asks questions but never follows through". Hyena was one person ignoring me and I had asked him a question that was important to my read on him.

I wasn't answering your question on Mac. I was giving my feeling about the situation.

Anyway, I'm not scum no matter what people think. I just haven't played well.

Fair enough. I still think your Day 1 gives you a lot of credibility.

[Epignosis]

Epignosis, I will ask you the same questions as I asked Mac. What happened between you two in the dream world? What were your interactions like? Did you suspect each other then? Tell me everything you can about what was going on there.

I hardly even recalled that MacDougall was with us Day 2. I'd have to look back to tell you what our interactions were like. I can do that if I get a chance today.

[juliets]

Epignosis, I will ask you the same questions as I asked Mac. What happened between you two in the dream world? What were your interactions like? Did you suspect each other then? Tell me everything you can about what was going on there.

I hardly even recalled that MacDougall was with us Day 2. I'd have to look back to tell you what our interactions were like. I can do that if I get a chance today.

Ok thats fine.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Whoever it is that's saying Epi and I are both town is probably scum. That is such a TMI bullshit scummy read.

[Long Con]

Continuing through juliets' posts...

....Holy crap vanity thank you for making me revisit this whole thing. I don't think juliets ever actually vouched for elephant and the way I think this happened could actually be compatible with him being scum that has pocketed her. @juliets any thoughts that don't brush up against the rules? Do you think elephant could be scum here?

Apologies for not answering earlier, I had to make some phone calls and eat.

As for thoughts -

If Elephant were scum, why would he take someone who is a good mislynch candidate, i.e., has suspicion on her and declare her lock town? It would have been so easy just to agree with those who have been saying I'm probably scum and not even have to push hard for my lynch, just a little nudge and I believe I would have been mislynched maybe not yesterday but soon. So instead of doing that he decided to pocket me? What good does that do, I have no influence in the thread. It makes so much more sense to get me mislynched. So no, I don't think he could be scum here but I won't call him lock town for his own good.

This is a very bad look, and it's severely compounded by the fact that juliets allowed nutella to repeatedly state that she trusts Elephant based on juliets' say-so, something that I don't recall juliets ever speaking out against. This is similar to iaafr allowing Eva to put out that he's the doublevoter and so we shouldn't lynch him, except that nutella was Civilian and pushed it a lot more than Eva ever did. Juliets (I mean correct me if I'm wrong) basically quietly nodded whenever nutella lock-towned juliets-Elephant.

[Long Con]

Ok, so some juliets ISO pulls, focusing on Elephant stuff...

So Elephant and Faraday did not vote for Drago. Was there someone else?

I did not.

yeah but I consider your reason acceptable. Creature did not either but I still read him town.

Juliets narrowed the focus of Drago nonvoters to Elephant and DF, disregarding boo and Creature, both town. Could be viewed as TMI, but I go for the town lean here because of narrowing the focus on Elephant.

i need to tone down the aggression. i'm sorry, that was uncharacteristic of me

"i'm sorry my aggression makes me look bad." Is that your only thought?

That's kind of a misrepresentation tbh

He does not say "I am sorry I left you alone". He says "I am sorry I don't look like I normally do". At least, that is how I understand it. He does not address any of us.

I read him as genuinely sorry he was a factor in my melting down if that makes any difference.

Takes the side against Elephant's attempt to lynch vanity. Town lean again.

I'm moving back to Faraday for the moment.

[VOTE: DFaraday] aubergine

why did the dfaraday wagon completely die?

I don't know, I just moved back. I would rather land on someone who didn't vote Drago.

Ended up on DF and not Elephant. Scum lean for that one, looks like the "Elephant or DF" post earlier could be distancing.

The rest of Day 3 juliets mostly casually engages Elephant, questioning here and there, but never suspecting. She doesn't like it said that she copied Elephant's reads. Slightly scummish? She then votes vanity, which would have lynched him that Day if Ty4on hadn't foolishly shot himself in the foot.

Here's how I see it, juliets: people start to vote vanity, then you made a couple of posts that broadcast a likely vanity vote. You said you were going to "eat and read through vanity again" which sounds good, but you don't give any analysis beyond asking Ty4on about vanity's emotional meta. Ty4on posted a couple of times before your next post and yet you didn't mention it again or @ - mention him or anything. Instead you just hop on the vanity train and point at me.

You're correct I did not post an analysis of vanity, I was tired and it didn't seem necessary. I read through him, noticed there was a lot of emotion in his posts and asked Ty4on the question. I pointed at you because I have been uneasy about you. I have tried to collect some thoughts/questions this morning and this afternoon which I will post in a minute. Maybe you are town and I am just paranoid about you.

Your earlier posts today were showing a growing scum-read on Ty4on, and very few other strong stances on anyone's alignment. You engage Elephant about vanity but you don't really give your own opinion on them very strongly, just question-prompts. Did you decide to start focussing on vanity because of the growing number of vanity voters? Why do you suspect vanity more than Ty4on?

Oh you were right LC I didn't see this or several other posts on this page.

I can't remember exactly when I decided I needed to focus on vanity but the votes that persuaded me were hyena's and Nanook's, especially when Nanook moved. At some point in this day phase I had reviewed nova's posts and decided some seemed scummy but on the whole I wasn't overwhelmed with scumminess as I remember being in the moments that he was posting. I'm pretty sure I posted in the thread what my feeling was about his posts. So, I decided to give Ty4on a chance today and see what he had to say. I'm not sure that was the right decision at this point because Ty4on hasn't jumped into discussion as much as I hoped he would. Plus part of me wants to give that other thread the info of who he is hoping that would be useful. He would probably be my alternate vote if vanity came into the thread and gave good responses for the suspicion on him.

I don't like this post much. I questioned juliets about how much her vanity vote relied on Elephant, and she directs the reasoning as sheeping two town players, and then sets up Ty4on as her alternate vote. No mention of Elephant in her answer at all. Scum lean.

Well that sucked.

But it looks like Nanook may have successfully stopped a kill???

Either way, my choice is clear and has been clear since the lynch post. I regret my part in how that went down.

[VOTE: vanity.] aubergine

Or the vig didn't kill lol, I kinda doubt he would have blocked them? Idk I'm clearly confused lol

I'm thinking it's more the vig didn't kill.

I will join you in a vanity vote. I feel bamboozled.

[VOTE: vanity] aubergine

This is the start of Day 4, where juliets instantly sheeps nutella's aggressive vote on vanity. "I feel bamboozled"? Scum lean. I know that wasn't an Elephant interaction, but it's notable enough when I saw it, given we now know that vanity and nutella are both town here.

That's all the time I have right now, I am going to sleep. I will continue this tomorrow if I can make time after catching up.

I'm not sure how the bamboozled is scum? I felt like vanity had pocketed me and gotten me to move my vote to someone who was town. I think it's natural to feel this way after that kind of lynch. I'll try and answer to all these in a little while.

I don't recall vanity pocketing you, how did this happen to such a degree that a mislynch on another player left you "bamboozled"? And vanity was town. If you were pocketed, then that's something you did to yourself... like it was all in your own head. Would you have come in with the Day 4 Instavote if nutella hadn't lead the way? It looks like an easy sheeping opportunity taken advantage of.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Whoever it is that's saying Epi and I are both town is probably scum. That is such a TMI bullshit scummy read.

I don't understand why it is TMI bullshit.

Hedgy afraid to draw your lines wishy washy.

But...you're saying I have to choose one of you as bad. Why can't both of you be town? For that matter, why can't both of you be scum and just engaged in a distancing ploy? What happened between you two in the dream world?

Also and more importantly, CONGRATULATIONS FOR WINNING THE BUISNESS AWARD!

[Long Con]

I'm having an epiphan-t here. Many things make a lot of sense with a scum elephant. I just want the ok from juliets before I vote for him.

as I understood Juliets, she did not give you an ok? Or did she?

I can go into all of the reasons that I'd rather not go into, and I very much dislike that vanity is the source behind this. Obviously it won't involve me revealing private information, I'd simply not want scum to draw the same conclusions I did.

I did not give the ok. Far from it.

This is what I'm talking about. Here, juliets specifically says she's not ok with nutella pulling the trigger on Elephant.

Like, do I really need to go on? Nutella has been swinging wherever the tide goes between Elephant and Vanity, and then, when she has had a chance to flip one of them, she hasn't. TWICE.

Nice work on nutella wobbling! My world always had vanity as wolf as the centerpiece, and I wanted to flip vanity before nutella because of that. But your world suggests that there is a scum-sided interest in keeping the Elephant/vanity dichotomy going, and in that case vanity could be town-aligned. That does turn quite a few things on their head.

One thing about nutella that I just want to mention is she is wishy-washy and changes her mind often when town. I don't believe I've ever seen this many swings on the same person/people though.

Defends nutella with a true thing, then washes it away by leaving the audience with a bad taste in their mouth about it depsite the defense.

[Jackofhearts2005]

im confident in my pool of iaafr/pawn/LLD/Epi

everyone else is town as far as im concerned

sprityo, the only thing that makes me uncomfortable about this grouping is it means we had only 1 scum in our surface level group. There were 11 of us total, and we know Elephant was scum. It seems like we should have had at least one more which would mean either me, Long Con or TLib. I assure you it is not me.

Thematically, only one wolf was left behind at DL1 and DL2. Two were left behind at DL3 but one slipped into limbo and two wolves went into limbo to rescue the mark.

Game wise, it would make sense to have more than two (Drago and Elephant) at DL1 and certainly less than two at limbo.

I kinda want to ignore DL stuff besides the idea of a wolf in the F3.

[sprityo]

im confident in my pool of iaafr/pawn/LLD/Epi

everyone else is town as far as im concerned

sprityo, the only thing that makes me uncomfortable about this grouping is it means we had only 1 scum in our surface level group. There were 11 of us total, and we know Elephant was scum. It seems like we should have had at least one more which would mean either me, Long Con or TLib. I assure you it is not me.

If that's the case then it would be TL given the voting order that happened Day 1

[sprityo]

im confident in my pool of iaafr/pawn/LLD/Epi

everyone else is town as far as im concerned

sprityo, the only thing that makes me uncomfortable about this grouping is it means we had only 1 scum in our surface level group. There were 11 of us total, and we know Elephant was scum. It seems like we should have had at least one more which would mean either me, Long Con or TLib. I assure you it is not me.

If that's the case then it would be TL given the voting order that happened Day 1

But i've liked TL's content as of late so that's why i did not include him. That and Jack brought up a good point that it wouldve technically been two had we not lynched Drago

[juliets]

Continuing through juliets' posts...

....Holy crap vanity thank you for making me revisit this whole thing. I don't think juliets ever actually vouched for elephant and the way I think this happened could actually be compatible with him being scum that has pocketed her. @juliets any thoughts that don't brush up against the rules? Do you think elephant could be scum here?

Apologies for not answering earlier, I had to make some phone calls and eat.

As for thoughts -

If Elephant were scum, why would he take someone who is a good mislynch candidate, i.e., has suspicion on her and declare her lock town? It would have been so easy just to agree with those who have been saying I'm probably scum and not even have to push hard for my lynch, just a little nudge and I believe I would have been mislynched maybe not yesterday but soon. So instead of doing that he decided to pocket me? What good does that do, I have no influence in the thread. It makes so much more sense to get me mislynched. So no, I don't think he could be scum here but I won't call him lock town for his own good.

This is a very bad look, and it's severely compounded by the fact that juliets allowed nutella to repeatedly state that she trusts Elephant based on juliets' say-so, something that I don't recall juliets ever speaking out against. This is similar to iaafr allowing Eva to put out that he's the doublevoter and so we shouldn't lynch him, except that nutella was Civilian and pushed it a lot more than Eva ever did. Juliets (I mean correct me if I'm wrong) basically quietly nodded whenever nutella lock-towned juliets-Elephant.

Elephant declared I was lock town. I thought for sure he was the alignment cop. I didn't see any reason for him to declare me lock town if he were bad because I was such a good mislynch target. In my mind he was lock town.

[juliets]

Ok, so some juliets ISO pulls, focusing on Elephant stuff...

So Elephant and Faraday did not vote for Drago. Was there someone else?

I did not.

yeah but I consider your reason acceptable. Creature did not either but I still read him town.

Juliets narrowed the focus of Drago nonvoters to Elephant and DF, disregarding boo and Creature, both town. Could be viewed as TMI, but I go for the town lean here because of narrowing the focus on Elephant.

"i'm sorry my aggression makes me look bad." Is that your only thought?

That's kind of a misrepresentation tbh

He does not say "I am sorry I left you alone". He says "I am sorry I don't look like I normally do". At least, that is how I understand it. He does not address any of us.

I read him as genuinely sorry he was a factor in my melting down if that makes any difference.

Takes the side against Elephant's attempt to lynch vanity. Town lean again.

I'm moving back to Faraday for the moment.

[VOTE: DFaraday] aubergine

why did the dfaraday wagon completely die?

I don't know, I just moved back. I would rather land on someone who didn't vote Drago.

Ended up on DF and not Elephant. Scum lean for that one, looks like the "Elephant or DF" post earlier could be distancing.

The rest of Day 3 juliets mostly casually engages Elephant, questioning here and there, but never suspecting. She doesn't like it said that she copied Elephant's reads. Slightly scummish? She then votes vanity, which would have lynched him that Day if Ty4on hadn't foolishly shot himself in the foot.

Here's how I see it, juliets: people start to vote vanity, then you made a couple of posts that broadcast a likely vanity vote. You said you were going to "eat and read through vanity again" which sounds good, but you don't give any analysis beyond asking Ty4on about vanity's emotional meta. Ty4on posted a couple of times before your next post and yet you didn't mention it again or @ - mention him or anything. Instead you just hop on the vanity train and point at me.

You're correct I did not post an analysis of vanity, I was tired and it didn't seem necessary. I read through him, noticed there was a lot of emotion in his posts and asked Ty4on the question. I pointed at you because I have been uneasy about you. I have tried to collect some thoughts/questions this morning and this afternoon which I will post in a minute. Maybe you are town and I am just paranoid about you.

Your earlier posts today were showing a growing scum-read on Ty4on, and very few other strong stances on anyone's alignment. You engage Elephant about vanity but you don't really give your own opinion on them very strongly, just question-prompts. Did you decide to start focussing on vanity because of the growing number of vanity voters? Why do you suspect vanity more than Ty4on?

Oh you were right LC I didn't see this or several other posts on this page.

I can't remember exactly when I decided I needed to focus on vanity but the votes that persuaded me were hyena's and Nanook's, especially when Nanook moved. At some point in this day phase I had reviewed nova's posts and decided some seemed scummy but on the whole I wasn't overwhelmed with scumminess as I remember being in the moments that he was posting. I'm pretty sure I posted in the thread what my feeling was about his posts. So, I decided to give Ty4on a chance today and see what he had to say. I'm not sure that was the right decision at this point because Ty4on hasn't jumped into discussion as much as I hoped he would. Plus part of me wants to give that other thread the info of who he is hoping that would be useful. He would probably be my alternate vote if vanity came into the thread and gave good responses for the suspicion on him.

I don't like this post much. I questioned juliets about how much her vanity vote relied on Elephant, and she directs the reasoning as sheeping two town players, and then sets up Ty4on as her alternate vote. No mention of Elephant in her answer at all. Scum lean.

Well that sucked.

But it looks like Nanook may have successfully stopped a kill???

Either way, my choice is clear and has been clear since the lynch post. I regret my part in how that went down.

[VOTE: vanity.] aubergine

Or the vig didn't kill lol, I kinda doubt he would have blocked them? Idk I'm clearly confused lol

I'm thinking it's more the vig didn't kill.

I will join you in a vanity vote. I feel bamboozled.

[VOTE: vanity] aubergine

This is the start of Day 4, where juliets instantly sheeps nutella's aggressive vote on vanity. "I feel bamboozled"? Scum lean. I know that wasn't an Elephant interaction, but it's notable enough when I saw it, given we now know that vanity and nutella are both town here.

That's all the time I have right now, I am going to sleep. I will continue this tomorrow if I can make time after catching up.

I'm not sure how the bamboozled is scum? I felt like vanity had pocketed me and gotten me to move my vote to someone who was town. I think it's natural to feel this way after that kind of lynch. I'll try and answer to all these in a little while.

I don't recall vanity pocketing you, how did this happen to such a degree that a mislynch on another player left you "bamboozled"? And vanity was town. If you were pocketed, then that's something you did to yourself... like it was all in your own head. Would you have come in with the Day 4 Instavote if nutella hadn't lead the way? It looks like an easy sheeping opportunity taken advantage of.

Regardless of what it seemed like to you I was not sheeping. I made the decision during the night phase.

And what if I was sheeping nutella? That makes me bad?? nutella was our top town read.

Maybe we are not working with the same definition of bamboozled. To me it means tricked. I felt like he had talked his way out of being lynched when he was indeed scum.

[juliets]

I'm having an epiphan-t here. Many things make a lot of sense with a scum elephant. I just want the ok from juliets before I vote for him.

as I understood Juliets, she did not give you an ok? Or did she?

I can go into all of the reasons that I'd rather not go into, and I very much dislike that vanity is the source behind this. Obviously it won't involve me revealing private information, I'd simply not want scum to draw the same conclusions I did.

I did not give the ok. Far from it.

This is what I'm talking about. Here, juliets specifically says she's not ok with nutella pulling the trigger on Elephant.

I just explained what I was thinking.

Like, do I really need to go on? Nutella has been swinging wherever the tide goes between Elephant and Vanity, and then, when she has had a chance to flip one of them, she hasn't. TWICE.

Nice work on nutella wobbling! My world always had vanity as wolf as the centerpiece, and I wanted to flip vanity before nutella because of that. But your world suggests that there is a scum-sided interest in keeping the Elephant/vanity dichotomy going, and in that case vanity could be town-aligned. That does turn quite a few things on their head.

One thing about nutella that I just want to mention is she is wishy-washy and changes her mind often when town. I don't believe I've ever seen this many swings on the same person/people though.

Defends nutella with a true thing, then washes it away by leaving the audience with a bad taste in their mouth about it depsite the defense.

I was stating the truth. Is that bad?

[juliets]

im confident in my pool of iaafr/pawn/LLD/Epi

everyone else is town as far as im concerned

sprityo, the only thing that makes me uncomfortable about this grouping is it means we had only 1 scum in our surface level group. There were 11 of us total, and we know Elephant was scum. It seems like we should have had at least one more which would mean either me, Long Con or TLib. I assure you it is not me.

Thematically, only one wolf was left behind at DL1 and DL2. Two were left behind at DL3 but one slipped into limbo and two wolves went into limbo to rescue the mark.

Game wise, it would make sense to have more than two (Drago and Elephant) at DL1 and certainly less than two at limbo.

I kinda want to ignore DL stuff besides the idea of a wolf in the F3.

Jack, what is DL? And what do you mean by "two wolves went into limbo to rescue the mark"?

[juliets]

im confident in my pool of iaafr/pawn/LLD/Epi

everyone else is town as far as im concerned

sprityo, the only thing that makes me uncomfortable about this grouping is it means we had only 1 scum in our surface level group. There were 11 of us total, and we know Elephant was scum. It seems like we should have had at least one more which would mean either me, Long Con or TLib. I assure you it is not me.

If that's the case then it would be TL given the voting order that happened Day 1

But i've liked TL's content as of late so that's why i did not include him. That and Jack brought up a good point that it wouldve technically been two had we not lynched Drago

Ah ok I wasn't sure what Jack was saying but I forgot about how Drago would have been included in the groupings. So that means 4 out of 16 were bad and should have been 2 out of 11. I'll think about that ratio. What does everyone else think?

[Jackofhearts2005]

im confident in my pool of iaafr/pawn/LLD/Epi

everyone else is town as far as im concerned

sprityo, the only thing that makes me uncomfortable about this grouping is it means we had only 1 scum in our surface level group. There were 11 of us total, and we know Elephant was scum. It seems like we should have had at least one more which would mean either me, Long Con or TLib. I assure you it is not me.

Thematically, only one wolf was left behind at DL1 and DL2. Two were left behind at DL3 but one slipped into limbo and two wolves went into limbo to rescue the mark.

Game wise, it would make sense to have more than two (Drago and Elephant) at DL1 and certainly less than two at limbo.

I kinda want to ignore DL stuff besides the idea of a wolf in the F3.

Jack, what is DL? And what do you mean by "two wolves went into limbo to rescue the mark"?

Dream level.

Have you seen the movie? It’s really good.

[juliets]

im confident in my pool of iaafr/pawn/LLD/Epi

everyone else is town as far as im concerned

sprityo, the only thing that makes me uncomfortable about this grouping is it means we had only 1 scum in our surface level group. There were 11 of us total, and we know Elephant was scum. It seems like we should have had at least one more which would mean either me, Long Con or TLib. I assure you it is not me.

Thematically, only one wolf was left behind at DL1 and DL2. Two were left behind at DL3 but one slipped into limbo and two wolves went into limbo to rescue the mark.

Game wise, it would make sense to have more than two (Drago and Elephant) at DL1 and certainly less than two at limbo.

I kinda want to ignore DL stuff besides the idea of a wolf in the F3.

Jack, what is DL? And what do you mean by "two wolves went into limbo to rescue the mark"?

Dream level.

Have you seen the movie? It’s really good.

I have but it was so long ago I can only remember parts of it, like the car going off the bridge.

[Jackofhearts2005]

im confident in my pool of iaafr/pawn/LLD/Epi

everyone else is town as far as im concerned

sprityo, the only thing that makes me uncomfortable about this grouping is it means we had only 1 scum in our surface level group. There were 11 of us total, and we know Elephant was scum. It seems like we should have had at least one more which would mean either me, Long Con or TLib. I assure you it is not me.

Thematically, only one wolf was left behind at DL1 and DL2. Two were left behind at DL3 but one slipped into limbo and two wolves went into limbo to rescue the mark.

Game wise, it would make sense to have more than two (Drago and Elephant) at DL1 and certainly less than two at limbo.

I kinda want to ignore DL stuff besides the idea of a wolf in the F3.

Jack, what is DL? And what do you mean by "two wolves went into limbo to rescue the mark"?

Dream level.

Have you seen the movie? It’s really good.

I have but it was so long ago I can only remember parts of it, like the car going off the bridge.

It takes the idea of A Plot B Plot to its purest extension by having eventually four plots going on at a time and sending all of them to climax at the same time for like multiple orgasm pacing.

Also, the fight scene in the falling hotel with JGL is neato.