Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[tedxtr]

There's just no world where Sloonei isn't with someone that doesn't have some sort of high presence or having accumulated a lot of town reads. I just can't think about that. It's because of his lists containing lurkers as scum which is always what he's done. There has to be someone active as a mafia and I think that's just juliets. I don't know, maybe I was right for the wrong reasons earlier, but there's just no world for me where juliets isn't mafia. I don't know why or how she is being town read, someone needs to engage me, because I just think you're wrong.

I heard Jay's thoughts on her, I'm moreso looking for thoughts from people like Tranq, TSP, Michelle. Why you scum read her / town read her?

[tedxtr]

I think I've changed my mind on speed actually, he has high AM equity, not wolf equity. Tranq fits that spot better by a larger margin.

[juliets]

I think juliets makes the most sense as a wolf with sloonei based on previous day play. I expect the last one to be someone in between TSP / Tranq. Michelle is probably almost never mafia here unless she's changed her game drastically. There's still this feeling of me being wrong on her that I can't shake, but it's probably caused more by other people's thoughts on her which I relate to, except that what they're scum reading her for is what I town read her for. The hiatus makes me paranoid about her competency as scum potentially rising, which is why I have this paranoia, but I don't think she'd evolve up to this level in a few months, plus, she like...always rands town. She doesn't have high presence as either alignment.

<snip>


I kind of have nothing on TSP to be honest, I remember him being awkward early game, some mechanical reasoning here and there, but no real push. I think he actually fits the neutral description better than anyone else. I don't think sig places his AM on the same dream level as him, especially if it's Tony, a lurker slot that always can be considered as bait, all it took was someone like me to unravel the mechanics behind sig's power and then actually pulling through with the plan, making it a 50/50 chance to kill his AM. I think he'd be a lot more weary because mechanics have always been a point of interest and this one in particular is fairly easy to solve. I don't think he's AM. I'm not sure if he'd be on the master's team, but nothing about his play and interactions makes me think he is. I think he's the one civilian / neutral lean that I'd probably never lynch. If he is an indie then he probably has a wincondition of staying alive til endgame until the other factions win and he just wins with them anyway. There's 2 masters and 1 AM that we have to worry about, this seems like a worthless pursuit.

There are several things here I want to speak to.

First ted, what makes you think I am mafia? The only thing you've brought up about me is something you were mistaken about so what's your evidence now? You say it's based on the previous day so you should be able to point out some specific things I did/said. Are you saying I'm on the Masters team?

Second, in the first paragraph you say:

"I expect the last one to be someone in between TSP / Tranq." but in the last paragraph you say:

"I'm not sure if he'd be on the master's team, but nothing about his play and interactions makes me think he is. I think he's the one civilian / neutral lean that I'd probably never lynch."

So I'm a little confused why you would name him as a potential wolf and then say you'd never lynch him. Could you speak to this?

Third, you say about Michelle:

"The hiatus makes me paranoid about her competency as scum potentially rising, which is why I have this paranoia, but I don't think she'd evolve up to this level in a few months, plus, she like...always rands town. She doesn't have high presence as either alignment. "

What "hiatus" are you talking about? And what do you mean by "evolve up to this level"? What level? And finally, I believe your comment that she doesn't have presence as either alignment is just wrong. She is notably animated as town and much less so as scum that I've seen. Compare her performance in Inception (civ) to her performance in Girl Genius (bad). In this game she has been animated from my pov.

Finally in another post you say:

"but there's just no world for me where juliets isn't mafia."

You are in for a shocker when I flip. Have you read any of my civ games? And again, I will look forward to your specifics on this read.

[Michelle]

Spoiler: show

OooOOoOoOooooOooOOOOooo FEEL MY GHOSTLY WRATH! oOOoOOoOoOOOOOoooOoo

Hi. Let's be strategic here.

And the reason to vote Sig over Mac is like...to show moral support for ghost Dizzy or because Mac is your teammate or whatever.

No, sir. You and @@TonyStarkPrime are both incorrect. First of all your game theory analysis doesn't work. But never mind that right now, because that isn't that relevant.

***Here's a better reason to lynch Sig first:

It's the Anti-monitor's turn to NK this night. Sig is 100 % an Anti-monitor according to Dizzy ghostly godness. So that will leave only one person left alone on that team. This in turns mean we can isolate that player for the rest of the game with blocking and jailkeeping. Which mean we will have no mafia kills on odd nights. We don't even have to lynch them before lynching the other team.

This way the other team will not inherit the kill, and we can start already today to block or prevent the lone killer to take action.

Therefore:
- Get rid of the 3rd person on the Anti-Monitor team. (Sig)
- Block or jail suspects for the 4th person. (Ted I guess.) You could even plan that whoever is jailkeeper jails Ted, and whoever is JAOT blocks someone else.
- Get a NK free odd night for the rest of the game, plus confirmation of who the last member is.

FUFUFUFUFUFUFU, I just looked at the roles. And if Sig is not the Anti-monitor then this will not actually work, because that role's kills can't be protected against. I don't know the specific mechanics, but it's at least 50 % chance that this works. And the rewards are great.

***Info dump is not allowed. But I assume here that planning an action together (without knowing who will do it) is not prohibited. @Long Con

---

Tony,

Spoiler: show

you don't seem to have read my post very well or be very interested. That is fine. You do you. But I believe in my case as I believed in Radish, Sabie and as I believed in you the last game we played. *hair flip*

Mac could flip mafia, independent or town with kill protect. This will all incriminate Sig. He's likely mafia or independent imo.
Sig will flip mafia, as his interaction with Radish/Sabie is oof and his reaction to my case is to try and sell it in as both a role/prize info (on N1 mind you) and as a totally random Sig idea.

None of the flips depend more or less on each other. Mac flipping town will not make Sig look good. He still wrote the things that he did. He still has the interactions he has. It's more of a call between who you think are more likely to flip scum (which is both tbh), but also that flipping a third teammate on the Radish/Sabie team now will give us the possibility to prevent a night kill every odd night starting this night. This is hugely helpful.

I still think Tony is more likely town oOOoOOooooo

---

I’ll eat something, i’ll be here for autographs and interviews in 30 mins or so

You are making the same mistake as Radish. This posturing of confidence makes you look so guilty. You are a prime next target.

Sig's basically saying that a protective role WOULDN'T have targeted mac and thus, he would have other tools at his disposal to survive the night. scummy ones.

But how did Sig know that Mac was the NK target in the first place?
SVS presented that there were numerous ways that whoever was targeted did not die.
Sig only considered that there were ways Mac specifically would have avoided to die.

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Spoiler: show

@nutella , @Epignosis I don't know if you remember the game we were final 4 with Scotty as scum. I insisted that he had a mindslip that could only come from scum, and he didn't understand the accusation of all. A lot of the time scum won't understand what about their mindset that is inherently scummy and insist that they didn't slip. I think this is happening here.

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OoooooOoooOoOOOOOOooooo

Ultimately - I'm dead. It's your responsibility. But I think the potential rewards of lynching Sig and being able to block one of the NKs is very high. I realize it doesn't necessarily work depending on Sig's specific role, but I do think it's worth a try. I think the mindset that either Sig's or Mac's scumminess is dependent on each other's flip is flawed. One scum flip will mean almost 100 % the other is scum. But a potential town flip will not exonerate either.

However, if you all are more sure that Mac is scum then go ahead, I guess. I don't think Mac is town either.

We're not in a bad position, but I think we should make the most of it anyway. It's very difficult to win a multiball game for town. We are doing well, but we need all tools at our disposal. So my vote is to vote Sig first. /however many cents.

Anyhow, good luck. And I will probably write more reads and stuff next phase. I just felt it was important to point out Sig's scummery.

I can't respond more today after this. Good luck and go town!

reposting this

[Michelle]

Spoiler: show

OOooooOOooooOooOoOoooo HEAR MY GHOST THROUGHTS oooOOooOoOOOOOOooooooOO

Here's a plead you MUST READ

Please, please, please listen to me and take my post seriously. My credentials are as follows:
- Nanook 1.0 as top town read on D1 = confirmed.
- Radish and Sabie as connected teammates before any of the flipped = confirmed.
- I do not actually suck at this game.

I don't know why scum would want to Janitor me. Obviously I didn't kill myself and obviously I'm not with Radish/sabie and obviously I'm town. My role stays hidden, but that doesn't matter much. Good riddance to the Janitor kill. I 100% expected to be killed btw. What a predictable scum team.

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OooooOOooOoOOOOOOooooo ACTUAL TAKES ORDERED BY THEME IN SPOILERS ooOOOooOoOOOOOOooooo


1. Sig is 100% on the Radish/Sabie team and he actually SCUM SLIPPED.

Spoiler: show

Remember when I said Sabie was 100% on the Radish team because duh, and she flipped as such?
Here's why Sig is on the same team (apart from what's already been brought up by Sloonei and others (good job!)):

- Sig reveals that his team tried to kill Mac on N1, but that the kill didn't go through.

Also food for thought that I'm workshoping:

N1 there was no kill and Sprityo/Dom started to pursue Mac more heavily. Now there were a few things floating around about that, but given some of the voters on his wagon and how Sabie flipped I think Team 1 tried to kill Mac and it didn't work since he has the one night kill protection. Which led to a push from some of the players on his wagon to flip him to gain civ credit.

The great thing here is that so many people on Radish's wagon had teammate compatibility with both Sabie/Radish.

So we flip Mac and he's mafia, next lynch is Sprityo who's one of the surviving Anti-Moniters and from there it's just the matter of finding the last one of them and then analyzing how people voted to save Mac. Given the last minute swing to stop Mac from being lynched I think his team moved and pushed him over so we'd wanna look at late voters to the Radish wagon. Which adds to my suspicion of Mac.

Sig is talking about his own team here because:

There is a civ that can't be nked and two protection roles, Aja and Lassie.

Yea, but I doubt they'd have targeted Mac.

I did think about the civ role, a fair amount. However, I think it's much more likely he's mafia.

Also to Epi, I do plan to finish my case, this phase just caught me at a bad time.

Alternatively to Mac,

I'd say Sprityo is a good lynch followed by an inactive/semi active role. Think a lurker who isn't doing much.

linki: Your back and forth with Dom yesterday, various other posts, your small dick comments, and your entire tone when discussing you.

Here's the actual slip, guys!

When SVS suggests that the no kill on N1 may have been for many reasons, Sig answers with the knowledge that Mac was the actual kill target.

Read it. Sig says he doubts the protective role would target Mac (so that couldn't be the reason why the kill failed.) And then Sig says that he considered that Mac could be the civ role, but that he thinks that Mac is just much more likely mafia (again revealing that Mac was targeted for a NK.)

Digest this.
Again, Sig reveals that he KNOWS THAT MAC WAS THE TARGET FOR THE KILL.

The only explanation is that Sig KNOWS that Mac was targeted for a NK. He would only know that if he was the one targeting him for a NK. This is why Sig is tunnelling Mac, with extra knowledge.

Sig is scum with Radish and Sabie.
Sig not being mentioned (except once) in Sabie's ISO is just icing on the cake. Same with Sig being hedgy about Radish on D1.

2. Mac is probably scum as well

Spoiler: show

Mac is reacting in pure self pres and no interest in finding scum. Sig's tunnelling of Mac supports Mac being scum.
I have one example:

Other than Dyslexicon dying, that was a good night post. I hope my idiocy didn’t help put a target on your back.

I’m not following the team compatibility here, and I need to try to go back and find some of it. Is it being suggested that when it was Mac vs Radish that it was trains on two people from the same team?

TMI on Dyslexicon as town.

This is a terrible deflection onto G-Man. Mac himself said I was the towniest person in the fucking game. Why shade G-Man for assuming the same? It's very obvious that I have a town role. This is bad bad bad deflection on a low hanging fruit like G-Man.

3. G-Man is actually town, and here's why.

Spoiler: show

His posting is not scum, the way he went after me, reconsidered and talks to me after I flip is not scum. I'm a little bit surprised and suspicious that some people has not picked up on this yet. Especially Jimmay I feel should be aware that G-Man is town. (Jimmay: Why? Me: Because I feel like you ignored important points that shows that G-Man is town.) @tedxtr

SVS looks good for sticking up for G-Man imo. Probably. Maybe some other people look good for it too.

I'm pretty sure that my read is right. He could even be a good protection candidate. I know some people have said G-Man looks like a Radish/Sabie teammate, but Sig is their teammate, and then somebody else. Bank it.

Spoiler: show

4. Why you should definitely lynch Sig/Some genuine advice for the last Anti-Monitor Scum Team member.

Spoiler: show

I believe we should get rid of Sig first because he is absolutely scum. This is where we have the leads.

If someone on the other scum team dies, THEN we can go after the other scum team. If we for example get a confirmation that Mac is scum, then it will be easier to hunt down Mac's teammates, and we can leave the last Anti-Monitor member alone for a bit.

But it should be the Anti-Monitor team's responsibility to blow the game open. Smoke out Radish/Sabie/Sig and the last person until we have an actual confirmed lead on the other team.

And to the Anti-Monitor team: You will definitely lose unless you blow the game open and go for the other team here with your NK.
If you NK town next night I'll say you're about 2% to win, the other scum team is about 50% to win and town 48% to win.
If you NK one of the other team you're about maybe 20 % to win (because town will hunt the other team which is more pressing, which is much better) and the other team is about 30 % to win and town about 50 % to win.

I know this is a lot, but please someone read it and take this further. I can't respond much to all questions and comments. I hope I explained this well. I will post later with more reads and thoughts on who I think the last Radish/Sabie/Sig teammate is. I need to go through some ISO's first.

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Short version:
- Sig scum slipped and should be lynched.
- Mac is very likely on the opposite mafia team than Sig, but it's not confirmed.
- We should go after the Anti-Monitor team until we have a confirmed flip on the other side. Smoke them out.

OOOooOoOooOOOOooOooOoOoOGHOSTSOUNDSOooOoOOOOoOoOoOOoOOOGHOSToOOOOOoOOoOOAVENGEMEOOOooOOoO

[Michelle]

Spoiler: show

OOooooOooOOoooOoo GHOST DIZZY oOOOOoooOOOOOOOoooooOO SO GHOSTLY ooooOOoOoooOOOO

This turned out to be more of a process post. I noticed I have more time. The next and only other post I'll post this phase will be a more thorough analysis, and I'll pick out my top pick for Anti-monitor and the rest of Mac's team.

I'm pretty good at interaction analysis. /Ref please just sheep Dizzy when I say someone is 100% scum.

Allow me just a moment of complaining. You have no idea how hard it is to watch this game and not being able to participate as normal. You have no idea how much I want to scream at some of you. That sinking feeling when the oracle reveal is the confirmed scum Sig.

But I'll try to stay positive.
Sig being Architect is valuable because it means that we shall definitely not kill or lynch Sig before the Anti-Monitor is dead.

Because if we kill the Anti-Monitor, we have confirmed scum Sig that we can block or jail or mess with as long as possible on odd nights.
This would be a great time to lynch the anti-monitor.

Another thing. It seems obvious that Sig made this whole Inception thing happen, since he's the Architect. He took himself out of the lynch pool, but his teammate is still probably in this lynch pool, or else the power seems broken. /cents. I didn't play Inception.

I'll come back to the Mac team. But I think Jay is a prime suspect there. He's ended up on Mac's side the whole game.
Juliets is certainly on my list as well here. She's exhibiting the "I'm so tired and I'm so confused and I can't be held accountable for what I say, but I'm trying"-scum tell. It's a thing. Trust.

Rip SVS. I feel a bit bad for hounding you all game, but it was done from love. <3 Rip Nutella 2.0 who was obv-town. <3[/dead]

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Ted

Spoiler: show

I was about to yell at Ted for him being the last member of the rabies team. But when I looked back to his early interaction he was way early with calling Sig firm town. That doesn't really fit good with a teammate interaction.

There’s just something illogical that doesn’t sit right with me. If there’s the slightest chance sig is a town, why are you voting for him instead of basically outed wolf Mac no matter sig’s alignment? If it’s so clear to you that he TMI’d Mac, why wouldn’t you ask yourself “is this a wolf tming or a town tming” and vote for him instead of Mac?

This is bad though. Cause you write as if Mac should've been confirmed scum for some reason, but he wasn't. He only was that for Sig and whoever is on his team so...
For me, Sig was even more confirmed scum than Mac was (though both of them being scum was like 95 %)

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Spoiler: show

Turnip

Spoiler: show

I argue that no one would have given radishes a second glance without my input. I was low-key but instrumental.

Like I've never been anything other than a ghost rip.

I've been considering TH with Radish and sabie for a while. Though I think this is less likely. To be fair Turnip's very first post of content was to call out Radish as scum. I think that is earnest. But TH, why for the love of Radishes did you think sabie was town though? I will never be able to understand that if you are town here.

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Sprit's ISO is terrible, horrendous and the worst.

Spoiler: show

G-Man red
MacDougall red
Master Radishes red
sig red

Radish and Sig in the red GTH reads without talking about them or going after them at all. Especially weird since Sig was town read my many. I'm thinking it's kind of likely he's Anti-monitor. At the same time though, someone should ctrl+F sprit in Sig's ISO and tell me what they think. @Sloonei ?

If anything I would be fine with taking the L for today, since we as a town have been doing really good.

And I’ll be damned if I let myself be an easy lynch target.

Lol this.
What changed, my friend? Or were you just not being genuine at all the first time around?

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Tony and Dom are likely town. But they are not always listening very well... Listen to my ghost voice oooOOOooOOoOOOo
I'm not particularly excited about a TH lynch. I don't think that is good.

Nanook is probably 3p at this point. He does absolutely nothing. Just hangs out and defends people. If he's town he should start to actually do something for town. *smacks Nanook in the face with a cod*

I'll take a look on Speed as well. And Jack. So many.

I think @TonyStarkPrime and someone mentioned that Mac's team would be on Sig and Sig's team would be on Mac, but I think that is a very flawed way of thinking about it. Both Sig and Mac was as good as doomed. I see especially no reason why Mac's team wouldn't also argue for his lynch. He used his janitor kill on me for no good reason. They all must've known his time was up.

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If any of this sparks thoughts, please @ me. I'll be here helping to figure this out. What I would give for a res or an eternal ghost voice. But rip. I only have two more posts. But I'll make them count. Next one will be more conclusive.

[Michelle]

OoooOOOooOOooOoOO GHOST oOOOOoOOOOoooOOooooo

I went through ISOs, but honestly I think I became blind in the process.

The two likeliest for anti-monitor is still Sprit and Ted.

Ted:

- Has no progression on Radish, but votes him D1.
- Weird arch nemesis interaction with Sabie N2 (??)

From what I understood, his suspicion came from a place of him believing mac targeted him along with sprit's sudden push on him, which he called sprit scum for, which I can follow through. Sprit's vote and push is completely nonsensical unless he has TMI and I don't see anything scummy about connecting the dots that way?

This post is a problem. Why is it logical to call Sprit scum for TMI, but then it's also logical to call Sig town for the same thing?
I have big trouble seeing this mindset.

Like, you're basically saying that it makes sense for Sig to accuse Sprit of the exact same thing I accused Sig of. "Sig thinks Sprit has TMI of Mac being scum and calls Sprit scum for it. That makes sense." But somehow, in the case of Sig who's word by word showing actual TMI, that's just being interpreted as town for Sig.

So explain that please.

There’s just something illogical that doesn’t sit right with me. If there’s the slightest chance sig is a town, why are you voting for him instead of basically outed wolf Mac no matter sig’s alignment? If it’s so clear to you that he TMI’d Mac, why wouldn’t you ask yourself “is this a wolf tming or a town tming” and vote for him instead of Mac?

This is also confusing. How was Mac outed scum? He was no more outed scum than Sig. Confusing. Was he outed for you? And when did you start to suspect Mac? Cause you town read him earlier in the game.

-One thing that makes Ted not anti-monitor though, is his insistence that Sig's theory of Mac being Saitama-guy was ill informed and bad. He insisted that Mac was definitely not on that team.

There's some bravado about being on Sabie that feels off. Also the dip in activity around the Sig accusation. I don't know.

Spoiler: show

Sprit:

Obviously the dead know nothing and should shut the hell up

Go be done with the game and wait for town to win like a normal person

No. I'm not going to shut up. I'm still in the game per the ghost mechanics. I literally gave you all a Sig is 100% scum and tried to shoot Mac and that's why Sig assumes Mac is scum. Why are you so angry about that if you're town?

This really just looks like salt about town doing good right now. Why the "wait for town to win" - what town would be so confident and sure about this, and have such a salty tone about it?

I'm really asking everyone here. This does not look like town to me at all. It looks like salty scum having lost their team. And after this it's like "I wouldn't mind being the lynch" and moments later "I'll be damned if I'm lynched". I just really don't get the a town vibe from this attitude.

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-Michelle honestly have some pretty awkward Radish-team interaction as well. But she's not on the poll.

-I ISOed Turnip a bit, but I'm not enthusiastic about the prospect of him being scum anymore. Could happen i guess.

-I don't see why Jack would drop the Nut case if teamed with competing D1 wagon Radish tbh. Unless he tried to push the wagon to someone else, but I don't remember.

-I have no fucking clue about Nanook. Most of his posts are defending himself or threading water. I don't see him making actual reads or pushes.

---

Jay and Juliets are my biggest suspects for teamed with Mac.
I think all of Dom, G-Man, Tony and Epi looks town. Tranq honestly probs town, but I'll never understand hyper lurking.

I don't have a 100% now. =( Good luck, guys.

idk if these question in cyan received answers. [mention]tedxtr[/mention]

[juliets]

Spoiler: show

OOooooOooOOoooOoo GHOST DIZZY oOOOOoooOOOOOOOoooooOO SO GHOSTLY ooooOOoOoooOOOO

This turned out to be more of a process post. I noticed I have more time. The next and only other post I'll post this phase will be a more thorough analysis, and I'll pick out my top pick for Anti-monitor and the rest of Mac's team.

I'm pretty good at interaction analysis. /Ref please just sheep Dizzy when I say someone is 100% scum.

Allow me just a moment of complaining. You have no idea how hard it is to watch this game and not being able to participate as normal. You have no idea how much I want to scream at some of you. That sinking feeling when the oracle reveal is the confirmed scum Sig.

But I'll try to stay positive.
Sig being Architect is valuable because it means that we shall definitely not kill or lynch Sig before the Anti-Monitor is dead.

Because if we kill the Anti-Monitor, we have confirmed scum Sig that we can block or jail or mess with as long as possible on odd nights.
This would be a great time to lynch the anti-monitor.

Another thing. It seems obvious that Sig made this whole Inception thing happen, since he's the Architect. He took himself out of the lynch pool, but his teammate is still probably in this lynch pool, or else the power seems broken. /cents. I didn't play Inception.

I'll come back to the Mac team. But I think Jay is a prime suspect there. He's ended up on Mac's side the whole game.
Juliets is certainly on my list as well here. She's exhibiting the "I'm so tired and I'm so confused and I can't be held accountable for what I say, but I'm trying"-scum tell. It's a thing. Trust.

Rip SVS. I feel a bit bad for hounding you all game, but it was done from love. <3 Rip Nutella 2.0 who was obv-town. <3[/dead]

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Ted

Spoiler: show

I was about to yell at Ted for him being the last member of the rabies team. But when I looked back to his early interaction he was way early with calling Sig firm town. That doesn't really fit good with a teammate interaction.

There’s just something illogical that doesn’t sit right with me. If there’s the slightest chance sig is a town, why are you voting for him instead of basically outed wolf Mac no matter sig’s alignment? If it’s so clear to you that he TMI’d Mac, why wouldn’t you ask yourself “is this a wolf tming or a town tming” and vote for him instead of Mac?

This is bad though. Cause you write as if Mac should've been confirmed scum for some reason, but he wasn't. He only was that for Sig and whoever is on his team so...
For me, Sig was even more confirmed scum than Mac was (though both of them being scum was like 95 %)

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Spoiler: show

Turnip

Spoiler: show

I argue that no one would have given radishes a second glance without my input. I was low-key but instrumental.

Like I've never been anything other than a ghost rip.

I've been considering TH with Radish and sabie for a while. Though I think this is less likely. To be fair Turnip's very first post of content was to call out Radish as scum. I think that is earnest. But TH, why for the love of Radishes did you think sabie was town though? I will never be able to understand that if you are town here.

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Sprit's ISO is terrible, horrendous and the worst.

Spoiler: show

G-Man red
MacDougall red
Master Radishes red
sig red

Radish and Sig in the red GTH reads without talking about them or going after them at all. Especially weird since Sig was town read my many. I'm thinking it's kind of likely he's Anti-monitor. At the same time though, someone should ctrl+F sprit in Sig's ISO and tell me what they think. @Sloonei ?

If anything I would be fine with taking the L for today, since we as a town have been doing really good.

And I’ll be damned if I let myself be an easy lynch target.

Lol this.
What changed, my friend? Or were you just not being genuine at all the first time around?

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Tony and Dom are likely town. But they are not always listening very well... Listen to my ghost voice oooOOOooOOoOOOo
I'm not particularly excited about a TH lynch. I don't think that is good.

Nanook is probably 3p at this point. He does absolutely nothing. Just hangs out and defends people. If he's town he should start to actually do something for town. *smacks Nanook in the face with a cod*

I'll take a look on Speed as well. And Jack. So many.

I think @TonyStarkPrime and someone mentioned that Mac's team would be on Sig and Sig's team would be on Mac, but I think that is a very flawed way of thinking about it. Both Sig and Mac was as good as doomed. I see especially no reason why Mac's team wouldn't also argue for his lynch. He used his janitor kill on me for no good reason. They all must've known his time was up.

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If any of this sparks thoughts, please @ me. I'll be here helping to figure this out. What I would give for a res or an eternal ghost voice. But rip. I only have two more posts. But I'll make them count. Next one will be more conclusive.

I have certainly been tired this game when I've worked late or when we have EOD's that are 10:00 pm or after, and if there is anyone who HASN'T been confused at some point in this game let them raise their hand. But I never said I couldn't be held accountable for what I was saying. I may have made some thought process mistakes when tired but I'm always accountable for what I say.

[Michelle]

I am at work on pc and I will try to do the NKs list I asked for.

@Juliets, what makes you villager in this game? (infos you are allowed to share)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is anybody even here to talk?

You've made this comment 20 times. You don't need people to chat. There's a huge thread right here.

Morning JJJ, you complained I didn't interact with you sir? I am confused. AMA

Btw if in the huge thread there you didn't find the evidence I am not mafia I am sorry, if you are a villager, you need to better filter the available infos. But is perfectly understandable if you are mafia, so my vote doesn't change.

You interacted with me. That wasn't my concern. It was that when you interacted with me, it seemed more like you were telling me what I am than trying to figure out what I am.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]juliets[/mention] do you understand why some folks have had suspicions of you?

[Tranq]

There's just no world where Sloonei isn't with someone that doesn't have some sort of high presence or having accumulated a lot of town reads. I just can't think about that. It's because of his lists containing lurkers as scum which is always what he's done. There has to be someone active as a mafia and I think that's just juliets. I don't know, maybe I was right for the wrong reasons earlier, but there's just no world for me where juliets isn't mafia. I don't know why or how she is being town read, someone needs to engage me, because I just think you're wrong.

I heard Jay's thoughts on her, I'm moreso looking for thoughts from people like Tranq, TSP, Michelle. Why you scum read her / town read her?

Ted, i've played a lot of games with juliets. I can't claim to always read her correctly, but in this game she definately sounds civ. As SVS said, bad juliets gets nervous. I'm not seeing that here.
There also are mechanical reasons for my civ read on juliets. I think it's very likely Dom had BTSC with juliets, or had BTSC with someone who could confirm juliets.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Tranq is an obvious mafioso at this point. There are no remaining permutations of the game where he is a civilian.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Gonna review the interactions again from the opposite direction

[JaggedJimmyJay]

One thing to be certain y'all assess when I am gone, and I suggest you assess it aggressively and interrogate the hell out of each other, is how players who've voted for me have justified doing so. That applies to this phase and previous phases.

This is a crucial Day 8 on which the game may turn, and it has become a dead space where literally everyone who isn't me has planted a vote on me and then gone off to take naps. You've done the mafia's work for them, and you've made their lives extremely easy today. Change that when I'm gone or I am going to be upset.

[juliets]

I am at work on pc and I will try to do the NKs list I asked for.

Juliets, what makes you villager in this game? (infos you are allowed to share)

I have done a lot of analysis of people to try and figure out what alignment they are. I have done major ISO's, I have looked at other games, in Jay's case I even did a comparison analysis of his game here and his game when he was bad in Transistors. I have made myself available when I'm not at work, at physical therapy, at the doctor, eating, or sleeping. I have spent a little bit of time on discord or watching a tv show as a brain relief but other than those things I have been here. I voted for Radish and sig and my vote for sig instead of Mac on Day 3 was only due to the fact that the evidence against sig was conclusive. Look at my scum play in Girl Genius - you won't see any big analysis pushes from me in that game.

[juliets]

@juliets do you understand why some folks have had suspicions of you?

It depends on their reason. I will answer this but I want to hear answers to the questions I asked ted first about why he reads me as scum.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epignosis on Sloonei

Spoiler: show

Tex/Michelle are my early town read
Jay and nanook early meh reada

1) tedxtr is town

Agreed.

tedxtr who are your strongest town reads?

sig - S~V~S - Dys - juliets - Sloonei - TSP

maybe in that exact order

sig - S~V~S - Dys - juliets - Sloonei - TSP

maybe in that exact order

Shucks. Tell me about myself, dyslexicon, and tony.

(Insert: Why those three names, Sloonei?)

I don’t remember much of anything that Epi has said in this game. That is probably more my fault than his.

I enjoy posting shticks as long as they don’t get in the way of generating actual content.

I don't feel like his did. You can change the last syllable of the refrain to anything in order to make the next line rhyme.

Which is frustrating because G-Man hasn't said all that much.

The first song says to lynch Dyslexicon.
The second song backpedals (?) on Dyslexicon.
The third song has him self-quoting saying he'll do his thing, mentioning that he was being a brat toward JJJ, and lamenting there being two teams.
The fourth song might be his most meaningful one. He named JJJ a suspect, you, and said he didn't trust Dom and S~V~S (so is this song about a salad? )
The fifth song calls you bad again.

The gimmick doesn't bother me. The fact that he gave himself an easy one but has provided very little in the way of substance does.

Epi, you said I have responded to your wall, therefore you acknowledged it, so what's your vote still doing on me? No response to it at all? Did it satisfy your expectations / did it not? I don't think I comprehend what your vote is supposed to accomplish. are you scum reading me or

Just because you responded does not mean your response satisfies me.

It still doesn't sound genuine to me, as though you're buttering Sloonei up. Even now you followed his lead on G-Man (although I now see he has moved on to Turnip Head).

people with multiple votes:
G-man: Would vote.
Jack: Would not vote.
Mac: Would vote.
Radishes: Am currently voting.
Turnip Head: Would not vote.

I don't hate the way this poll looks. The wide vote spread is encouraging. But we're in the final hour now and it's probably time to start consolidating votes. If anyone has any additional beefs, we're running low on time.

Would you lynch JJJ's phony ass?

Steaming the tamales, which I've never made before and am unlikely to make again. What a pain in the ass. Who came up with the idea of putting dough in corn husks?

I'm here for half an hour.

move your vote

Why?

Because Jay's town and we're not about to lynch him in the last half hour of the day with several viable options on the board.

Yesterday ruined me for this day phase. I can't keep up and shit keeps piling up.

Why is your preference Radishes over Mac?

It's not really. I've been on Radishes for a while because I like to keep the poll close during the day. I'm okay with either of them. I guess I do feel a little bit more strongly about Radishes, but that's probably just because I've been on him from the beginning and have not shaken that suspicion. It's a more entrenched case for me. With Mac I just feel icky about one post he made. Other people have had a lot more to say about him.
I'm also open to G-man.

Turnip Head has four votes. Your take on him?

Dizzy's proposed hot potato on my is not a bad look. There were several established counterwagons already on the board, including Mac who does not look like a compatible Radish partner. If anyone wanted to save Radishes, all they needed to do was vote Mac.

Agreed.

I wish I'd asked him to explain why those names in particular stood out to him.

You still can.

Sloonei's Shoes is a p good band name

The Paprika Sneakas.

I join your applause of that quip.

I left Dom and Epi off of the joint list. Both of them were listed as "incidentally present" on my list, which wasn't really a judgment of alignment either way. Radish named them as names, but didn't have a ton to say about either of them. Jay had Epi in his top tier of green reads, and Dom in the orange tier.

So put Epi in the "mixed reviews" category and Dom in "neutral/negative".

How am I a mixed review?

Vote Jack and sleep well.

That's what I'm doing.

Good night all.

Also fuck you Sloonei I'm not reading it.

Sloonei:

Spoiler: show

Be back later (maybe).

What are you asking me, nutella? I'm quite behind and don't know the context.

If sig is bad, there’s a 50% chance he starts the day with -2 votes. A tie doesn’t do much and may just be ensuring a mac lynch.

And then MacDougall gets lynched instead, which is apparently the itinerary for Day 4 as I understand it. What's it matter?

The ghost of Dyslexicon laid out a plan for isolating the last remaining member of sig’s supposed team. Also sig is more bad than Mac.

I'm a few posts from that red wall. I'll get there, though it will be after my 7pm EST deadline probably.

We can now do two sets of interactive isos. This may literally kill me.

I'm not doing a goddamn thing.

sig's still a top suspect.

I don't agree. Lynch Jack.

I'll be with you clowns later (hopefully). I'm in the middle of Sloonei's latest novel.

Someone ask me something mafia related. Fuck NBA. Fuck hysteria.

JaggedJimmyJay and Turnip Head: what are their alignments?

Anti

Do you mean they are aligned opposite one another, or they are both anti-town? Or something else entirely?

They're not on the same side. I was trying to be funny. Now I must pee. When I come back, I'll tell you more about what I think.

I do not have a read on Epi outside of the interactive analysis that I've done. That's unusual.

Sounds like a you problem.

I've read everything but Sloonei's latest novel. I am current other than that.

I really don’t expect everyone to read all that nonsense. The rainbow list at the end tells you what’s essential.

Then why do you publish it?

There wasn’t even a case on GMan.

Read the damn thread with the rest of us please.

Do you suspect Jack?

Well there is one stand-out attribute to this review:

Epignosis never, not once, in not even a single post, provided a stance on Sloonei or stated an opinion of Sloonei.

The rest of these posts are a bunch of nothing.

Epignosis makes a viable suspect, and he should be in everyone's elimination pool. If he isn't in yours, then please stop being such a silly person and reassess. I'd call him a "backup" Master team candidate with Tranq and Tony.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

But Jay, what about Dom? What about claiming in BTSC?

The Master team had a janitor, and they used it on Dizzy. All anyone had to do was claim Dizzy's role in BTSC. Cut it out.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

juliets on Sloonei

Spoiler: show

Independent of all this: how do we all feel about master radishes?

I don't have a feeling about him yet. I'm not inclined to lean him bad because he used the term "baddie".

LOL, no but I love our Turnip, he's one of my faves so that would put you in good company. But alas, you are kind of a grey radish so far.

You have not made much of an impression on me either way, you have not said much if anything on topic, but this post tells me you certainly are aggressive, and I like that.

So tell me, now that you are posting on topic, what about my posts make you think I'm bad?

Linki @Sloonei i, good to know. It felt to me like youwere using him to appear like standard Sloonei, but it's been a while for me, and it's only Zero.

Okay, one more serious-sorta post then I'm going to bed.

Your posts sound like they could have been written by a baddie. E.g. over-explaining thoughts, suggesting what scum are going to try to do as a result of mechanics x, trying to list nearly everyone (even those that haven't checked in)...all traits I see scum do/do myself when scum.

So you go in my pink pile. It's too early to have proper red reads but your posts have, twice now, pinged me.

This is the most significant post in Radish’s ISO and it strikes me as the kind of opportunistic Day 0/1 suspicion that mafia could latch onto. Granted, everyone is new to Radishes here so it’s understandable that he’d lack strong reads early on (it’s not even Day 1 yet), but I don’t see him being much of an assertive presence in here so far. I’d think he’d want to lay the ground work to produce reads, at least.

Sloonei, I don't agree with him about S~V~S but if this is not laying the ground work to produce reads what is? I don't understand what you are expecting from him. Can you explain it a little more?

I’m saying this is the extent of his reads, and it’s not very inspiring.

Ok. Thanks for the clarification. I don't agree that it's necessary for everyone to have a lot of reads this early but I understand your point.

Ok. Thanks for the clarification. I don't agree that it's necessary for everyone to have a lot of reads this early but I understand your point.

I certainly would not say that that's the case either. My point is that I have no reason to read Radishes as town. I picked out the most substantial post I could find in his ISO, and there was nothing in it that would be impossible for an evil radish to say or do.

Oh ok, I misinterpreted what you said. Thanks for clarifying, makes sense to me.

I’m still sick and my head still hurts, so I probably won’t have a ton to say today again. This sucks.

I have an actual case against Radishes. I’ll post it if I find the energy. I have some things to say about speedchuck too. Saying those things requires less energy.

I'm sorry you're sick Sloonei that's hell when playing a game like this and trying to keep up with life. If there is anything at all you can post about your Radish case, even if it's not the whole case, it would be very helpful to me as I am not seeing what those who voted for him are seeing. I may be biased for him because I like and respect him. I hope this is not too much to ask of you.

I feel like I'm stumbling, trying to get back on my feet. Let's start with this: Master Radishes check out the post of Sloonei's where he says your "gimme someone to ISO" is scum behavior. (If you can't find it let me know and I'll post it, its very recent though right before the boom.) Can you speak to your thinking when you said that? It does not seem like something a good Radish would say.

Also to everyone, I'm sorry my post posted after LC said no more posts. I didn't see the boom and it didn't come up in linki like posts usually do when I posted. So, my apologies.

Good morning everyone, here we go with another day.

I have to work most of the day today, hopefully I'll be back between 2:00 and 4:30. I plan to look at a few things today: first, I need to look at JJJ's case on Radish and explore what Sloonei posted about him. Also, I want to look at G-Man because I share the concern some of you have about his participation. I want to look at Michelle because I have good feels about her but I don't know why - I'd like to move her from null to leaning civ if I can. To round things out I'll look at Colin and sabie. Sabie is so tricky because as I and others have mentioned she starts slow but as scum she's hard to catch. If anyone thinks there is someone else I should look at today instead of those above please make that suggestion.

I'll be around for a bit before I have to go to work if anyone has anything to direct at me.

S~V~S who was the civ queen you are talking about from the past?

Ok I reviewed Sloonei's post about Master Radishes' "tell me who to ISO" post and JJJ's case post. I started writing this big response but halfway through it occurred to me that I'm really not going to change anyone's mind about MR and I seem to be an outlier in terms of thinking he is town. I look at a post of his and see one thing and others look at it and see something entirely different. So the problem seems to be me.

It has started to remind me of the way I viewed Elephant in Inception. Most of my little surface team came to think he was bad and I was adamant that he was town. I couldn't have been any more sure and thought I knew his role. I ended up dying on that hill because he eventually got lynched and sure enough he was bad.

So maybe that's happening here. I look at MR's comments about Sloonei and understand where he's coming from since he doesn't know Sloonei's meta topped off by the fact Sloonei hasn't been himself because he's sick. JJJ who I respect and am reading town sees his comments about Sloonei and labels them "everywhere and nowhere". That's just one example of what is happening.

So I'll leave it at this: I still don't see MR as bad. I've looked at the points Sloonei and JJJ have made and don't see the same thing they are seeing (I do understand that saying "tell me who to ISO" looks bad but I've done that when I'm too busy and time is short). I'm moving on to spend time on others that I have queasy feelings about so I can hopefully develop some hard mafia reads.

Sloonei you mentioned you had mislynched Colin in the past for similar behavior (I think that's what you said). Can you expound on that at all?

@Sloonei you mentioned you had mislynched Colin in the past for similar behavior (I think that's what you said). Can you expound on that at all?

I don't know if I said "similar behavior", but what I've mislynched colin for in the past is his tendency to hang back and provide reads at his own pace. It's easy to misread that as a tentative, behind-the-action scum player, when in reality it's just been a behind-the-action civilian trying not to overstate his thoughts.

I have not looked closely at his posts in this game so I can't give you a detailed interpretation of what he looks like here. But that's my general warning against lynching Colin.

Thank you Sloonei that is helpful. I'll take another look at him and try to guard against reading him on a tendency to hang back and provide reads at his own pace.

@Sloonei you mentioned you had mislynched Colin in the past for similar behavior (I think that's what you said). Can you expound on that at all?

I don't know if I said "similar behavior", but what I've mislynched colin for in the past is his tendency to hang back and provide reads at his own pace. It's easy to misread that as a tentative, behind-the-action scum player, when in reality it's just been a behind-the-action civilian trying not to overstate his thoughts.

I have not looked closely at his posts in this game so I can't give you a detailed interpretation of what he looks like here. But that's my general warning against lynching Colin.

Thank you Sloonei that is helpful. I'll take another look at him and try to guard against reading him on a tendency to hang back and provide reads at his own pace.

juliets, I’ve been playing games with you since I signed up here, including recently. Why do you need Sloonei to tell you how I play?

Colin, don't take offense but I remember nothing about how you play. The only thing I remember is Inception where I mistakenly thought you were bad which I don't want to do again, but I don't remember why I thought you were bad. I plan to take another look there too though so I'm not just depending on Sloonei.

I don't know if I've ever seen a bad turnip.

Go to that link in one of my posts to his posts in Firefly where he was bad. He is radically different to me here than there.

I mentioned earlier that there were a few moments that made me question juliets. Here they are:

Spoiler: show

Okay, one more serious-sorta post then I'm going to bed.

Your posts sound like they could have been written by a baddie. E.g. over-explaining thoughts, suggesting what scum are going to try to do as a result of mechanics x, trying to list nearly everyone (even those that haven't checked in)...all traits I see scum do/do myself when scum.

So you go in my pink pile. It's too early to have proper red reads but your posts have, twice now, pinged me.

This is the most significant post in Radish’s ISO and it strikes me as the kind of opportunistic Day 0/1 suspicion that mafia could latch onto. Granted, everyone is new to Radishes here so it’s understandable that he’d lack strong reads early on (it’s not even Day 1 yet), but I don’t see him being much of an assertive presence in here so far. I’d think he’d want to lay the ground work to produce reads, at least.

Sloonei, I don't agree with him about S~V~S but if this is not laying the ground work to produce reads what is? I don't understand what you are expecting from him. Can you explain it a little more?

Sloonei, I don't agree with him about S~V~S but if this is not laying the ground work to produce reads what is? I don't understand what you are expecting from him. Can you explain it a little more?

I’m saying this is the extent of his reads, and it’s not very inspiring.

Ok. Thanks for the clarification. I don't agree that it's necessary for everyone to have a lot of reads this early but I understand your point.

Ok. Thanks for the clarification. I don't agree that it's necessary for everyone to have a lot of reads this early but I understand your point.

I certainly would not say that that's the case either. My point is that I have no reason to read Radishes as town. I picked out the most substantial post I could find in his ISO, and there was nothing in it that would be impossible for an evil radish to say or do.

Oh ok, I misinterpreted what you said. Thanks for clarifying, makes sense to me.

First up is this exchange about my early read on Radishes, in which juliets misinterpreted/misrepresented the nature of my read twice. It took us three tries to get on the same page, and that's not something I'm used to experiencing with juliets. I'm not necessarily saying we always see eye to eye, but her first two cracks at my read are both off the mark in a direction that I would not expect from her. The next occurrence was somewhat similar, though not as jarring.
This second one would probably not have registered at all were it not for the similarities to the first episode, likewise the first one probably would not seem so glaring if it was not repeated again later:

@Sloonei you mentioned you had mislynched Colin in the past for similar behavior (I think that's what you said). Can you expound on that at all?

I had not said this at the time, though I had said something in the area (and since this question I've dug my heels in a bit more on Colin, so I'm not sure I'd even object to this suggestion). But this marks a second instance in which juliets extrapolated something from my posts that was not there. At this stage, I had mentioned (once, maybe twice) my track record of mislynching Colin as a caution to those who were beginning to suspect him. I was making an effort to refrain from linking his present behavior to past games because I had not looked at his activity in this game closely, so it would have been bogus of me to make any claims like that here. It was noticeable, then, when juliets asked me to explain a read which I'd be consciously avoiding.

Another point I noticed when I was digging for these posts:

Spoiler: show

Ok I reviewed Sloonei's post about Master Radishes' "tell me who to ISO" post and JJJ's case post. I started writing this big response but halfway through it occurred to me that I'm really not going to change anyone's mind about MR and I seem to be an outlier in terms of thinking he is town. I look at a post of his and see one thing and others look at it and see something entirely different. So the problem seems to be me.

It has started to remind me of the way I viewed Elephant in Inception. Most of my little surface team came to think he was bad and I was adamant that he was town. I couldn't have been any more sure and thought I knew his role. I ended up dying on that hill because he eventually got lynched and sure enough he was bad.

So maybe that's happening here. I look at MR's comments about Sloonei and understand where he's coming from since he doesn't know Sloonei's meta topped off by the fact Sloonei hasn't been himself because he's sick. JJJ who I respect and am reading town sees his comments about Sloonei and labels them "everywhere and nowhere". That's just one example of what is happening.

So I'll leave it at this: I still don't see MR as bad. I've looked at the points Sloonei and JJJ have made and don't see the same thing they are seeing (I do understand that saying "tell me who to ISO" looks bad but I've done that when I'm too busy and time is short). I'm moving on to spend time on others that I have queasy feelings about so I can hopefully develop some hard mafia reads.

juliets struggles to give a read on Radishes. She explains how she's gone through the process of reading the cases against him, and then makes the point of comparing this situation to a past game where she misread a scum player (Elephant in Inception) as town for the entire game, indicating that she is the problem herself, which would also seem to indicate a commitment of sorts to a negative read on Radishes here and now. But she ends with a town read on him, and casts further doubt about one of my central points against him. I find this progression mildly suspicious, and I also could see it as a potential teammate partnership in the event that one or the other of these two flips bad.

I misunderstood what you were saying. That's it. There is no "misrepresenting" and I resent that you threw that word in there tagged to "misunderstanding" to try and make it looked like what I was doing was intentionally bad either way. I clarified, thought I understood, you corrected me and I thanked you. I don't know how you could read anything malicious into that. What do you think I was trying to do? What was my point in trying to make it look like you said something you didn't? In other words, what was my scum motivation?

I never struggled to give a read on Radishes. I did a whole ISO where I argued he was town. The whole post you are quoting was me saying "I'm not going to belabor the point anymore but my opinion of his behavior is he is town, period." I brought up the Elephant example because I acknowledge the failing of believing he was town when he wasn't. Could that be happening here? It could, but I have tried to see the baddie in him and can't. Maybe I didn't express that well but that was my point.

I'll be honest Sloonei, I haven't had the best feeling about you this game but can't put my finger on why. I'm not angry or upset that you suspect me but that whole thing you did with the word "misrepresenting" furthers that icky feeling I have about you. Maybe we just need to dialogue more.

I did not mean to suggest that you were necessarily misrepresenting my words intentionally, though that possibility had occurred to me and I did not want to dismiss it outright. But it's not a pivotal part of my concerns here. I don't even know if this constitutes an accusation: I simply noticed a similar thing happening on two separate occasions with you. I'm not used to this from you, so it was noteworthy. Maybe it's purely coincidence. Maybe the confusion is on my end. But it's a thing that I observed and I didn't want to sit on that. My vote is on you for the sake of discussion more than anything else, for the record. If the day was ending right now, I don't think I'd want to vote for you.

I apologize if I've upset you at all with this. Let's start that dialogue. Tell me where else you've had not great feelings about me.

I appreciate your differentiating between misrepresentation and intentional misrepresentation - I thought you were accusing me of intentionally misrepresenting so I no longer feel icky about that. And I appreciate your apology too, I'm not upset beyond how I felt about the use of that word.

In general I've just had the feeling you were off. I've tried to chalk it up to you being sick and not here as much but every once in a while you pop up in my mind and I think "why am I not reading him as town yet?". I've just felt like we're not on the same wavelength. I think thats a lot of what you were trying to say regarding the misunderstanding we had.

I know this is not very helpful so I'll go into your ISO and try to identify places where I've felt it. The only thing is I'm done, like stick a fork in me, for the night. I've been here most of the day and these posts are starting to swim before me. So give me until tomorrow morning, I get up early, and I'll look at your ISO, specifically looking for those things that made me feel like you were off.

Good morning everyone.

I'm caught up and have to say Mac made me burst out laughing. He hasn't displayed the behavior I was looking for to be certain that he's scum so at this moment neither he nor Radish strike me as good candidates for a lynch today. Further, he now has me antsy about Jack. I don't need to be reminded how easily I can be taken in by Jack. And finally, I know he said he's not pushing Drago but wth is going on with Drago anyway. He's a complete non-entity.

This morning I'm going to take a look at Sloonei and see if I can indentify why I have had trouble seeing him as town. I see nutella has been having some similar feelings about him so I'm not alone. Then unless something else has come up I'll look at Tony. He hasn't responded to my response to his voting me but maybe he hasn't been online since then.

To Michelle: I'm not positive about Nanook's greeness but I don't suspect him at this time (note I haven't looked at his ISO I'm just going by his tone since he's returned).

Master Radishes spend time with your wife.

Thoughts about Sloonei - Question is why am I not reading him as town by now.

- Sloonei planted the first seed about Radish being bad - on Day 0. He says that though Radish is new he is being opportunistic (Radish was trying to sort S~V~S and put her in a pink pile) and he doesn't see him being much of an assertive presence. He further clarified saying this was Radishes only read and it was not inspiring. There was nothing in Radish's ISO that would be impossible for an evil Radish to say.

Sloonei, I know we've discussed this sequence in terms of my clarification but what I was left with was an uneasy feeling that you had picked someone brand new and were calling him opportunistic, not assertive and then you threw the "evil" word in there which felt subtly manipulative. This was the first push I see from you about someone and it's someone new on Day 0.

- Ok, I am in your sick days and I think I tended to forget you were sick and was looking for more content. I'm used to you generating a lot of content, but I understand that's not a fair expectation while you're sick. So this "feeling" isn't really legitimate. Also I think the content you were generating I was disagreeing with (about Radish) so that probably shaded things a little more.

- Here's a quote from after your fever lifted "Radishes remains suspect #1. I’m starting to agree with the G-man suspicion as well. Other than that I feel like I still have a lot of things left to figure out." Some of us take a long time to figure out how we feel about people but you are not historically one of those from my memory. So this struck me as wanting to avoid taking a stand on anyone but Radish. On re-read I can see it could just be because your attention was hazy ("big posts hurt my head") for a couple of days.

- Here's another quote: "i've been pretty singularly focused on radishes as a suspect. I want to break out of that this phase." This gets to the heart of what I was feeling about your play. You developed a good (meaning well developed) read of Radishes but then there were no other well developed reads from you. This is different from your town norm in my experience.

So Sloonei this is as close as I can get to why I wasn't feeling a town read on you. On re-read I can see that if Radishes gets lynched and flips scum then you made an inspired catch on Day 0 and should be commended (though that wouldn't make you town unfortunately). Also I'm open to considering that the 72 hours you were sick affected your game play to the point that it created doubts in my mind that you are town. Hopefully from here I will see the town Sloonei I am used to seeing. I'll try to point out anything else that makes me feel squirrelly about you when it happens, if it happens.

Some notes:

- I feel Colin is more likely town than scum for his righteousness. "Lynch me and I'll laugh at you". Annoying attitude, but probably likelier town than scum.

- I don't feel like lynching Mac is a good idea. I don't know. I kind of buy his defense, and i also feel like how he's giving out reads and thoughts rapidly, but then at the same time warns against "you should probably not listen to these" is more town. It's town doubt that he doesn't want to be fully responsible for those reads. That's my feeling.

- I'm honestly getting cold feet on Radish, but that is just because it would suck so much if he's town here.

- I can't follow the convo between Juliets and Sloonei at all.

I agree with you on Colin, I'm not certain but after all the discussion I'm leaning town.

I also agree on Mac. His reaction to being suspected is much different than his reaction from Inception where he was bad.

Sorry about the convo between me and Sloonei being unfollowable. I was trying to put into words a tone read and it was hard.

lots of linki

Responding to @juliets ISO post about me:

I make no apologies about my radishes suspicion. He stood out to me when the game was just getting started and I’ve continued to feel that way. I am open to other names and have been making an effort to explore other options today. Also when I called him “evil” I was just trying to be cute and come up with alternative words for “baddie”, “scum”, “mafia”, etc. Because I’m just so clever. I think I also threw around the word “naughty” earlier. I wasn’t trying to be manipulative. Just silly.

As for everything else you said about my activity and engagement, I’ll blame it on the sickness. But I disagree with the point that I don’t take a long time to figure things out. Maybe it comes across that way because I’m loud and assertive, but I’ll often go into Day 3 without a lot of confident reads. I can’t just scan the thread and make snap judgments of people, I rely on my process. Sometimes the games takes a while to open up. Being sick knocked me off my rhythm for a few days and stunted my Day 1. I try to be as open as I can when I’m communicating my reads, so if I don’t have many strong ones I’m going to say as much. I feel like I have a better grasp on the overall layout of this game than I did 36 hours ago, but it’s still not as great as I’d like it to be.

OK Sloonei I appreciate your response. I'm warming up to you as time goes by.

Oompa loompa doompadee durst,
When did I ever say I was cursed?



More after I eat some lunch.

I never thought you were cursed, but when the assumption went around, you didn't correct it earlier, did you?

Self imposed posting restrictions are a great way for a baddie to hide out, and your content is slim. I will be here on and off all day, give me some of those sweet accountant analyses, G Man.

I want you to make me believe you, you know I do.

Self-imposed restrictions are a good way to hide IF the player is hiding behind the restriction. Do we think that G-man is doing that here?

I also acknowledge that you made a post about Mac’s Day 1. I will take a closer look at that soon.

If he wasn't cursed (which is the final conclusion I came to before voting him), then it seems to me he was limiting himself. "Seemed to be" though - I want to hear him out.

Now I like sabie.
Is Mac or Jack a good lynch?

I could lynch Mac. I think lynching Jack is a bad move.

Sloonei are you seeing bad Mac or just not seeing good Mac? It's probably in your ISO but I've been in too many ISO's today and it's drowning me in a river of words.

Ok damnnit Sloonei if you are wrong...I'll change to MR. May the devil take my soul.

@JaggedJimmyJay I like your points about G-Man's post.

which point stands out the most to you?

The point about why you are the worst offender and the point about why exactly S~V~S and I are a problem. So for example, I'm not troubled that he finds me a problem but he didn't explain it and didn't answer me when I asked about it.

Are you clear on why you are the worst offender?

I am not. I'm not even clear why I'm on the list at all (I get what he has said, I just don't understand why he regards it as a bad thing). I believe I've asked him about this already.
I see that your vote is currently on G-man. How confident is that read? What other names are you considering?

I don't ever have high confidence in a read in early game, and it's been a while since I played with G-Man but out of the people I have looked at I have more confidence in him being bad than others. I thought I was going to move my vote but I can't find someone I feel as strongly about. sabie12 may be bad, I thought Mac had a good point, but I feel like I would just be voting for her because I should move. Should is the operative word - should in who's eyes?

God, am I going to have to choose between MR who I've had a town read on for 2 days or Mac who I don't see as scum at this time? This is impossible.

G-man just became equally as viable as Radishes imo. How do you feel about him?

linki: hello, i appreciate the confidence. but why are am i responsible for your vote, juliets?

Sloonei, no I'm sorry, you are not. I made the decision.

I have read through everything since I got off last night but I haven't assimilated all the theories yet. Plus I was not able to go through Sloonei's long post - I want to do that when I have more time to think about it which is not now. I start this day (Monday) out feeling bad about sabie so I will take a look at her more closely (again) this afternoon. I'm most confused on Mac, Jack and TH. I should just forget about trying to read Jack as he is right, I suck at it. I can't count on Mac being town yet even though I want to and with TH I know I'm seeing him as town because of meta and feel like I need to take a closer look. I'm not going to name my top towns right now because it's night and I'm old school. I'll work toward publishing a rainbow or GTH after day starts.

One other thing I want to say, I am rethinking my G-Man position based on his post last night. The theory that G-Man and Radishes were teammates really clicked with me last night and made me see voting for G-Man and voting for Radishes was basically the same thing. But his post leaves me believing he is town after all. I empathize with his feeling of the game being overwhelming and wanting to die soon if he's going to die - I have more time than he does and can barely keep up.

I have to be at work early this morning and probably have to stay late though I will get away as soon as I can because I have a lot to process here. And finally for now, welcome back nutella I hope you are town because your thoughts help me a lot.

I stopped after four pages of juliets' post history, as I think this material is telling enough. She held suspicions of Sloonei early in the game, and dedicated a good amount of energy to talking through them with Sloonei and sorting them out. If Sloonei and Mac are her teammates, then like half of the words she typed in this game were about her own team. I just don't get the impression it fits.

Still not seeing it.

[Michelle]

Is anybody even here to talk?

You've made this comment 20 times. You don't need people to chat. There's a huge thread right here.

Morning JJJ, you complained I didn't interact with you sir? I am confused. AMA

Btw if in the huge thread there you didn't find the evidence I am not mafia I am sorry, if you are a villager, you need to better filter the available infos. But is perfectly understandable if you are mafia, so my vote doesn't change.

You interacted with me. That wasn't my concern. It was that when you interacted with me, it seemed more like you were telling me what I am than trying to figure out what I am.

yellow - I explained my understanding coming from your behavior
cyan - I was doing this all game, and I told you always where I am. But you never really explained me where you were about me, you just posted various level of suspicions. You are dictating reads, not teamworking as a villager should do.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

yellow - I explained my understanding coming from your behavior
cyan - I was doing this all game, and I told you always where I am. But you never really explained me where you were about me, you just posted various level of suspicions. You are dictating reads, not teamworking as a villager should do.

Please understand that if you are a civilian, you're asking me to read your mind.

[Michelle]

I am at work on pc and I will try to do the NKs list I asked for.

Juliets, what makes you villager in this game? (infos you are allowed to share)

I have done a lot of analysis of people to try and figure out what alignment they are. I have done major ISO's, I have looked at other games, in Jay's case I even did a comparison analysis of his game here and his game when he was bad in Transistors. I have made myself available when I'm not at work, at physical therapy, at the doctor, eating, or sleeping. I have spent a little bit of time on discord or watching a tv show as a brain relief but other than those things I have been here. I voted for Radish and sig and my vote for sig instead of Mac on Day 3 was only due to the fact that the evidence against sig was conclusive. Look at my scum play in Girl Genius - you won't see any big analysis pushes from me in that game.

thank you Juliets, this helps

[Michelle]

yellow - I explained my understanding coming from your behavior
cyan - I was doing this all game, and I told you always where I am. But you never really explained me where you were about me, you just posted various level of suspicions. You are dictating reads, not teamworking as a villager should do.

Please understand that if you are a civilian, you're asking me to read your mind.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I may work in cognitive science, but I haven't quite mastered the intricacies of telepathy yet.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Michelle on Sloonei

Spoiler: show

Some page 5 thoughts

JJJ acts close to that game where he was villager and let himslef lynched with a wrong Poe. He kind of pressures everyone. For scum to be that is too annoying and he may get lynched just because. I don't see this as a scum safe play now, JJJ may be villager, a little too paranoid one.

Idk why is Sig upset about candy given like town reads http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 93#p586093 but in post 243 he explains his thoughts in a pretty villagery way.

Sloonei has a solid logic in his posts which feels good.

Some banters itt on page 6

Noticing a TR for me from Dizzy, and I prefere to take it as such because in a multiball with 3rd parts it's harder to think me for town core as being pockety.

Nutella wanting a Dizzy vs Sloonei fight noted. What if it's between 2 townies @Nutella ? It would be a beneficial one?

Nanook and Master Radishes giving me some odd vibes, it may be nothing.

Sloonei and dizzy both have high mafia equity, but low teammate equity, thus killing one will tell us more about the other as they’re in a non-mechanical 1v1 dipole.

That’s my quota of Serious Mafia Terms for the day, you’re welcome.

sounds spicy at the first read

Sloonei and dizzy both have high mafia equity, but low teammate equity, thus killing one will tell us more about the other as they’re in a non-mechanical 1v1 dipole.

That’s my quota of Serious Mafia Terms for the day, you’re welcome.

This post suggests that nanook is unaware there are two mafia teams.

Is quite interesting Sloonei didn't infirm the accusation

Sloonei and dizzy both have high mafia equity, but low teammate equity, thus killing one will tell us more about the other as they’re in a non-mechanical 1v1 dipole.

That’s my quota of Serious Mafia Terms for the day, you’re welcome.

This post suggests that nanook is unaware there are two mafia teams.

This post suggests that Nanook is spewing nonsense.

the post was presented as serious

I think I like Sloonei, but I don't remember why now.

maybe you can dig in memories?

This is two posts from SVS now that have felt like they could be written by a scum. Not that they are, just that they could be.

I certainly don't have a mindmeld with Radishes this game

geez the "baddie" discussion on pg 8, such nitpicky thingy

Independent of all this: how do we all feel about master radishes?

I am not impressed until now. And on Inception team I was.

Radish has made a decent number of posts and none of them have inspired any feeling in me, so that's a net negative.

Kind of my idea better explained

Jack is town

Since I was scum and him villager I noticed Sloonei's way to confident clear someone. Of course I tryied to shade him in that game because of this without big succes, btw.
This game he posted this sentence for 2 more players (i need to Iso because I don't remember for whom).
This is enough now for me to TR Sloonei, scum would not be so sure.

Also my read on Jack is similar.

But we need it to be more than that.

Michelle? speedchuck?

What?

we were looking for people to join the sig wagon for mechanical reasons.

I'm pressed for time. I'd like more than 'mechanical reasons' as an explanation.

but [VOTE: Sig] aubergine

If sig is mafia he has a 50% chance of starting the day with -2 votes on him. If we are inclined to lynch him and neutralize his team today, it is ideal to give him a comfortable lead in the poll.

Was this a way to try to save Mac from the lynch? I have to read to understand but I think it's better to ask.

I do not have a read on Epi outside of the interactive analysis that I've done. That's unusual.

i wonder if it's worrisome. Unusual is bad or plain neutral?

I do not have a read on Epi outside of the interactive analysis that I've done. That's unusual.

i wonder if it's worrisome. Unusual is bad or plain neutral?

Unusual is unusual. I have no reason to feel good about it, but I don't have a specific reason to feel bad about Epi. Which is the point.

I take it as neutral then.

Don't know if this was addressed, but I was thinking...If sig potentially designed the levels, would he have risked sending the anti-monitor in the main thread , the only place where lynched people die?

ok i assume that's the list i wanted to look in cuz i remember that account telling us tsp and someone else was with sig

i think, ultimately, sig would've used the 3 man level for shading and bet on this very wifom. if we bit it, it takes a 50/50 to lynch his anti-monitor which would seem dumb from him.

I don't know if he'd risk it by putting him in main thread, so I think that he'd just place him in Michelle's hood thing.

I'll take a look at those peeps. But names that stick out upon PoE and shit are probably JJJ / Gman / Speed

Michelle

I remember Sloonei had in the dream level a similar idea.

Sloonei and dizzy both have high mafia equity, but low teammate equity, thus killing one will tell us more about the other as they’re in a non-mechanical 1v1 dipole.

That’s my quota of Serious Mafia Terms for the day, you’re welcome.

Dizzy didn't flip wolf and Nanook died early.

Who knows how this read on Sloonei evolved?

maybe not the good place to search, but..

Why is tedxtr town?

why is not?

What’s the best reason we have to town read speedchuck?

Nanook TR him. But was not a strong one.

G-man is town because of his vote for Mac on Day 2.

[VOTE: g-man] aubergine

come on Sloonei..

G-man did not in fact vote for Mac on Day 2. Come on Michelle.

is midnight, bare votes are confusing me.

Why is Juliets villager?

Paranoia is making me reconsider this possibility. But... why do you ask?

paranoia. keeps haunting me since day 4. I put it in the corner but Jules is so ineffective in scumhunt that hurts. Jack too. idk..

I am too tired but I need to do this:

Michelle I am the only confirmed villa for myself

Sloonei and JJJ both as hard workers can be both villas with Jack who is peeked green except he is the mafia role who gives that peek.

Juliets was Ate-ing and not much more unfortunately.

Ted if I am alive next day maybe we can work more.

Epi doesn't feel like the lazy Epi who gave me towny vibes in the last game. He is not very active, he is not quite lazy, he wants to survive, to blend. I would lynch him.

Speed plays convinced. I like his posts. Can he post like this as scum?

GMan self voted

Tranq.. Where on Mafia Earth can someone who has this Iso be TR and the lynch can be on a player like JJJ??

Tony. idk.

Ok. So Jay is wolf based on behaviour and you suspect Sloonei as his team mate.
These were exactly my town reads and now I have to change them to trust you.

Talk to me about everyone please. I have to read few pages and I should return to reread, I dropped that because I worked yesterday and I am sorry.

Sloonei is quiet in a worrisome way

It's not always clear where Michelle stands on Sloonei. She provides reads at a few junctures, and they change -- that's fine. It's not easy to follow the thread of how the read progresses though. Michelle's play seems rather scattered, in that any two adjacent posts may be about very different things. There isn't clear fluidity, and again there may be language barrier interfering with my ability to interpret at points. That's not her fault.

I don't think this stuff looks "bad". It's not good either. I suggest reading Michelle other ways.

[tedxtr]

Juliets, I'm a stream of consciousness poster. I start from an idea, then go through posts. I may start with an opinion and then end up on another. There's no pre-filtering of my thoughts, and that's what makes me town!

If I were scum I'd have pre-filtered everything. I'm literally stating how I feel about something at that point, a lot of times, while writing and getting a stronger feel for someone (that was Tranq in that case) my other lean fades and my ideas kind of go like that

My brain is a fucking mess but you should be able to see the progression tho

And just the way you're even handling me right now, it seems like you are just forced to say something in order to fight it back. It's the same thing you and Master Radishes have done, you think I have an essay of a case sitting in my brain attic when it's just a mere gut feeling that can come and go, it's more based on how yesterday went and remembering there isn't nothing exceptionally townie to lock it. A lot of it is based strictly on suppositions and how the team is formed, I don't have anything concrete on you, it's just what it is, it's my feeling, you're a matter of PoE. I can't come up with an explanation on how the master team is formed without having you in it.

It's not something I can really describe, sorry, you can't really change my mind on it unless it's through other means, but never have I changed my mind when being approached directly by my scum reads. If you actually want to sort me, you have 350 posts at your disposal, the only time you appeared to be engaged in reading me was when I expressed a scum read on you and when Jay's getting pushed you suddenly switch on me cuz i don't fucking know why.

You just haven't obvtowned at all, you're kinda just there and if you were so obvtown and hard to push you would've honestly been dead by now, no?

I honestly haven't really remembered anything you posted except for the sig case or your questions at SVS which seemed really townie, but that was on Day 1. This is late game and I'd be a reckless fool not to even consider you being scum here. Your latest actions haven't really been reflective of a town lean here, it looks like you're just in cruise control.

[juliets]

But Jay, what about Dom? What about claiming in BTSC?

The Master team had a janitor, and they used it on Dizzy. All anyone had to do was claim Dizzy's role in BTSC. Cut it out.

This is a good point if Dizzy was town. I'm just not convinced he was (most likely indie to me) but I know that I'm pretty much alone in that read.

[tedxtr]

@juliets do you understand why some folks have had suspicions of you?

It depends on their reason. I will answer this but I want to hear answers to the questions I asked ted first about why he reads me as scum.

It's exactly posts like these ones, my alignment is NOT DEPENDENT ON HOW I AM READING YOU. If you truly wanted to analyse my posts you would've done so by now, you went from town because everyone town read me day one, then didn't give a shit about me and all of a sudden you and sloonei push me when Jay's getting heat.

You've been deflecting from calling me anything since Day One and it's only when I push you that you actually present a read to me, and even then you make it seem like I'm the scum that's pushing you for even coming close to believe you're not genuine at all.

If you consider yourself so town that if anyone even comes close to considering you after my PoE essentially got shattered to pieces, how come you aren't god damn dead???

[JaggedJimmyJay]

One theory I have had in mind but not openly speculated is that juliets is the Monitor. S~V~S was chosen as Pariah, and I think that's indicative of having been chosen by another long-time Syndicate regular, especially one of the women. Harbinger never brought anyone back, so I see little reason to obscure that thought now.

[tedxtr]

I've already mentioned that I was kept as mislynch bait and when you needed to lynch me the most, you just went ahead and voted me without a reason, and now all of a sudden we get into Day 8 and you having no opinion on me whatsoever.

And you're telling me I should be town reading you here?

[juliets]

Juliets, I'm a stream of consciousness poster. I start from an idea, then go through posts. I may start with an opinion and then end up on another. There's no pre-filtering of my thoughts, and that's what makes me town!

If I were scum I'd have pre-filtered everything. I'm literally stating how I feel about something at that point, a lot of times, while writing and getting a stronger feel for someone (that was Tranq in that case) my other lean fades and my ideas kind of go like that

My brain is a fucking mess but you should be able to see the progression tho

And just the way you're even handling me right now, it seems like you are just forced to say something in order to fight it back. It's the same thing you and Master Radishes have done, you think I have an essay of a case sitting in my brain attic when it's just a mere gut feeling that can come and go, it's more based on how yesterday went and remembering there isn't nothing exceptionally townie to lock it. A lot of it is based strictly on suppositions and how the team is formed, I don't have anything concrete on you, it's just what it is, it's my feeling, you're a matter of PoE. I can't come up with an explanation on how the master team is formed without having you in it.

It's not something I can really describe, sorry, you can't really change my mind on it unless it's through other means, but never have I changed my mind when being approached directly by my scum reads. If you actually want to sort me, you have 350 posts at your disposal, the only time you appeared to be engaged in reading me was when I expressed a scum read on you and when Jay's getting pushed you suddenly switch on me cuz i don't fucking know why.

You just haven't obvtowned at all, you're kinda just there and if you were so obvtown and hard to push you would've honestly been dead by now, no?

I honestly haven't really remembered anything you posted except for the sig case or your questions at SVS which seemed really townie, but that was on Day 1. This is late game and I'd be a reckless fool not to even consider you being scum here. Your latest actions haven't really been reflective of a town lean here, it looks like you're just in cruise control.

ted, you have no idea what my obvtown self looks like if you think this. And if you're saying if I was obvtown I would be dead how does that not hold for every other civ who is alive? Anyone who knows my game knows I'm not on cruise control.

[tedxtr]

Shit, even you have no scum reads right now. Your play thus far has been lack luster and you aren't taking any stances, wondering why. And now just through your posturing I can tell you are looking for reasons to scum lean me, YOU HAVE NOT READ A SINGLE POST OF MINE AND HAVE NO READ ON ME.

You aren't taking any stances.

[tedxtr]

This is exactly what a cruise control looks like, you're avoiding taking definitive stances and quite frankly look like you're trying to sway the thread into whatever direction you desire. You aren't freaked out at all. I have no idea who's who, it feels a lot more like taking shots in the dark right now but at least I'm putting myself out there.

[juliets]

@juliets do you understand why some folks have had suspicions of you?

It depends on their reason. I will answer this but I want to hear answers to the questions I asked ted first about why he reads me as scum.

It's exactly posts like these ones, my alignment is NOT DEPENDENT ON HOW I AM READING YOU. If you truly wanted to analyse my posts you would've done so by now, you went from town because everyone town read me day one, then didn't give a shit about me and all of a sudden you and sloonei push me when Jay's getting heat.

You've been deflecting from calling me anything since Day One and it's only when I push you that you actually present a read to me, and even then you make it seem like I'm the scum that's pushing you for even coming close to believe you're not genuine at all.

If you consider yourself so town that if anyone even comes close to considering you after my PoE essentially got shattered to pieces, how come you aren't god damn dead???

The reason I said I wanted you to answer first is I wanted to see what you were seeing before giving my own answer. I have looked at your posts though I am due another look since time has passed. I am not saying your alignment is dependent on how you see me. I don't even know what you're talking about that Sloonei and I pushed you when Jay was getting heat.

I've already addressed the part about being dead.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In a masochistic way I am enjoying the ridiculous reality that are the few arguments I've seen today between other people while everyone still just sits on me.

[tedxtr]

Juliets, I'm a stream of consciousness poster. I start from an idea, then go through posts. I may start with an opinion and then end up on another. There's no pre-filtering of my thoughts, and that's what makes me town!

If I were scum I'd have pre-filtered everything. I'm literally stating how I feel about something at that point, a lot of times, while writing and getting a stronger feel for someone (that was Tranq in that case) my other lean fades and my ideas kind of go like that

My brain is a fucking mess but you should be able to see the progression tho

And just the way you're even handling me right now, it seems like you are just forced to say something in order to fight it back. It's the same thing you and Master Radishes have done, you think I have an essay of a case sitting in my brain attic when it's just a mere gut feeling that can come and go, it's more based on how yesterday went and remembering there isn't nothing exceptionally townie to lock it. A lot of it is based strictly on suppositions and how the team is formed, I don't have anything concrete on you, it's just what it is, it's my feeling, you're a matter of PoE. I can't come up with an explanation on how the master team is formed without having you in it.

It's not something I can really describe, sorry, you can't really change my mind on it unless it's through other means, but never have I changed my mind when being approached directly by my scum reads. If you actually want to sort me, you have 350 posts at your disposal, the only time you appeared to be engaged in reading me was when I expressed a scum read on you and when Jay's getting pushed you suddenly switch on me cuz i don't fucking know why.

You just haven't obvtowned at all, you're kinda just there and if you were so obvtown and hard to push you would've honestly been dead by now, no?

I honestly haven't really remembered anything you posted except for the sig case or your questions at SVS which seemed really townie, but that was on Day 1. This is late game and I'd be a reckless fool not to even consider you being scum here. Your latest actions haven't really been reflective of a town lean here, it looks like you're just in cruise control.

ted, you have no idea what my obvtown self looks like if you think this. And if you're saying if I was obvtown I would be dead how does that not hold for every other civ who is alive? Anyone who knows my game knows I'm not on cruise control.

Well we are lynching what appears to be one of the active scums right now, why aren't you one?

Like you are literally voting for someone that you think is scum, no? It's Jay and he's active, you should have already answered the question yourself.

[tedxtr]

Sloonei, apparently, was active, and scum. That's 2/2.

[Michelle]

Dead
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - Salvadore - Killed self Day 1 to determine lynch target
nutella - Prometheus - Lynched Day 1
No one died on Night 1 - Mac was targeted by Anti Monitor team (Sig's slip)

Master Radishes - Dennis Reynolds - Lynched Day 2
Dyslexicon - Killed Night 2 - most probably a villager
sabie12 - Uncle Fester - Killed Night 2 - Turnip Head targeted Michelle and the action was switched to Sabie12 (THs claim)

MacDougall - Saitama - Lynched Day 3

sprityo - Lassie - Lynched Day 4
S~V~S - The Oracle - Killed Night 4
nutella 2.0 - Santa - Killed Night 4

sig - The Architect - Lynched Day 5
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME 2.0 - Harriet - killed Night 5

ColinIsCool - Awards Presenter - Lynched Day 6
Turnip Head - Jack of All Trades - Lynched Day 6
Dom - Seamus Fitzroy - Killed Night 6

G-Man - Aja - Lynched Day 7
Jackofhearts2005 - Agatha Heterodyne - Killed Night 7
Sloonei - The Master - Killed Night 7



I will fill it up later, now I have to go back to work

[tedxtr]

idk if these question in cyan received answers. tedxtr

Dizzy asked a terrible question. That's why it wasn't answered.

Sig's TMI was town because I was town reading him and sprit's tmi was scum because i wasn't town reading him

[juliets]

This is exactly what a cruise control looks like, you're avoiding taking definitive stances and quite frankly look like you're trying to sway the thread into whatever direction you desire. You aren't freaked out at all. I have no idea who's who, it feels a lot more like taking shots in the dark right now but at least I'm putting myself out there.

So I have no reads but I'm trying to sway the thread. To what?

I'm not freaked out at all. You can see inside my brain? You know how I feel internally? I'm not civ if I'm not freaked out?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

speedchuck on Sloonei

Spoiler: show

@speedchuck do you have any developed thoughts on jack and/or nutella? What about anyone else in the game?

I think the Jack/Nutella thing was interesting, primarily because of reactions to it. Tedxtr's reaction was notable, like he was incredibly pro-nutella and focused on nutella. Dunno if that's changed.

@tedxtr do you know nutella prior to this?

Having read over the last two pages, Dys and Dom are my top townreads. Their votes are on people I would like to see lynched.

I got twenty minutes. Lets go.

Expand on this, mr chuck

I got weird vibes from Ted D1, and then he appeared reluctant to address Dizzy's 'scumslip' on him. It wasn't the slip itself that bothered me, but his forced nonchalance about it? Something like that. Lol at her flipping votes, though.

The Mac read is nothing special. I agree with what Jay said about his Dom post, and a few other sentiments expressed in the past two pages.

Dizzy and Dom both seemed like fairly stable, level heads in the thread D1. I like town dizzy and town dom.

Bonus: I don't care to lynch G-man.

Ted, Jack, and Colin are the names to look into if we’re right about sig. Dom is a fringe candidate too, and I saw someone float Tranq as well. I have no reason to object to that.

This for if Sig is scum?

Yes

What happened to mac

But we need it to be more than that.

Michelle? speedchuck?

What?

we were looking for people to join the sig wagon for mechanical reasons.

I'm pressed for time. I'd like more than 'mechanical reasons' as an explanation.

but [VOTE: Sig] aubergine

If sig is mafia he has a 50% chance of starting the day with -2 votes on him. If we are inclined to lynch him and neutralize his team today, it is ideal to give him a comfortable lead in the poll.

Ah, better to gank the -2 vote thing earlier than later. Yes. I'll stick with that then.

Ted, Jack, and Colin are the names to look into if we’re right about sig. Dom is a fringe candidate too, and I saw someone float Tranq as well. I have no reason to object to that.

This for if Sig is scum?

Yes

What happened to mac

That’s what I’m wondering

These are the candidates to be the last remaining member of the sig/sabie/radishes team. Mac is not on that team.

Lol it's like the inverse of that Mac/Dom misunderstanding from a day ago

Hey guys just wanna catch up here a bitty bit.

Mac is still a person who could survive a nightkill but isn't who sig 'slipped' him to be? Or even on the same team?

How would we parse that? My sig suspicion remains independent of the 'slip', but it's a lot weaker without it.

This is actually a terrible look for Speed.

I'm not concerned about that. I've kept up with the game enough to think Mac was going to flip Anti-Monitor. I was surprised to see Saitama.

Saitama is exactly the role sig said he thought Mac was though back on d2 and the one that makes sense with all the theories. But ok.

Yea it reeks for speed honestly. I've been going after this and specifically this role forever.

And you expect me to have read any of those posts... why?

I skimmed Dizzy's post, then voted. After the lynch, I saw Sloonei and Juliets having a conversation like this:

"Sloonei is still a prime suspect."
"I don't get it, why?"

And I'm like WTF did something not go as planned? Mac seems to have flipped scum. What's going on?

So I asked.

I’ve argued against town reads on myself as town before.

Why though.

Sometimes because I don’t want things about me to be misconstrued, other times because I want to get a better read on the person reading me.

omigawd nuance.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME It looks like you need to show me where you talked about the reasons to townread you.

Of the six Jay voters, Tony, Dom, Epi, Tranq, TH and myself, I only see the potential for two of them to even be baddies.

Of the six Sig voters, Ted, Michelle, Speed, Nanook, Sloonei and Juliets, I have mixed feelings about all of them.

Is it two of the T's? Which ones?

As for the wagons themselves... I'm okay with lynching Jay, but not lynching sig seems really weird.

Tranq and TH.

Can you give us a rainbow or proposed players for each team? I’m picking up your opinions on specific issues but not where you’re at overall.

speedchuck

Dom
Jackofhearts2005
G-Man
Epignosis
juliets

Dragomir
ColinIsCool
Sloonei
TonyStarkPrime
Tranq

Michelle

Turnip Head
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME 2.0
JaggedJimmyJay
tedxtr

sig

Something like that. It's difficult, since there are two teams, and there are multiple players in there I don't recall reading any posts from. Lots of players in this game. Proposed players for each team would be harder still.
I think my individual takes are probably more useful.

Need five town other than me out of the following.

speedchuck

Jackofhearts2005
juliets
Epignosis

TonyStarkPrime
Tranq

Michelle
G-Man

Sloonei
JaggedJimmyJay
tedxtr

I have negative reads on Michelle that have been assuaged by the meta of not having played her before. I had a positive light of G-man because we were suspected for generally the same reasons early-game, but it doesn't feel concrete now.
I don't recall reading anything from the T's. Maybe because I payed most attention to this game around the time of the split, and regarding feelings during the split.

I'm a definite on Jay and Ted. Sloonei I'm historically bad at reading, but haven't seen something in memory that keeps him out of the bottom.

I mean, if it's Jay, Sloonei, GMan, I don't see the problem.

Aye, but I think Jay should be lynched first.

G-Man's final Day 2 vote was for Sloonei, not Mac.

Oh. What.

What’s the best reason we have to town read speedchuck?

Townreading me wins you the game if you're town. Good reason right there.

@G-Man why was sloonei the best choice to receive your vote on Day 2?

On Day 2 I trusted Dyslexicon and sheeped that vote out of a lack of other reads.

There was no chance of me being lynched and two or three competing viable wagons at the time. Why was Sloonei the best vote?

On Day 2 I trusted Dyslexicon and sheeped that vote out of a lack of other reads.

Why vote at all?

what

Jay’s behavior today is also exactly what I’d expect from him as a civilian. He got some pressure on him and it flipped a switch. He started pressing everything and re-examining things. He lost his zen and reclaimed the crown of fuck mountain.

I don't know what thread you're reading.

I juliets is mafia, on either team, she deserves to win.

Preach!

Jay, Sloonei, and probably Ted are still mafia. My reads are the same. Screw this game. Screw the unwillingness of anyone on this stupid forum to lynch Jay when he's pumping out worthless content because 'other players are posting less'.

And screw self-voting as well.

There was no case on G-man other than 'he's busy, he did a gimmick and later self-voted'

Meanwhile Jay's over here making love to his scum meta with Sloonei cheering him on.

There is one thing I don't like here. Toward the end when speedchuck was campaigning in his cranky way to destroy me, he always tacked Sloonei's name with me. Both of us were bad, but I had to die first. For reasons y'all will soon understand, that's a problem. The connection is meaningless, and it only serves to protect Sloonei in a roundabout way.

Generally I don't think it's speedchuck, but he should still answer to that.

[Michelle]

idk if these question in cyan received answers. tedxtr

Dizzy asked a terrible question. That's why it wasn't answered.

Sig's TMI was town because I was town reading him and sprit's tmi was scum because i wasn't town reading him

ok. help me fill the coloured post pls

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ whispers lost sage wisdoms into the wind as the mob, too distracted by their own boiling hatred to notice, piles the firewood 'neath the stake where he stands bound

[juliets]

@[mention]Michelle[/mention] I think you missed Night 3 in your list. If I'm not mistaken no one died that night. I don't know if that's important to your analysis but I just noticed it was missing.

[juliets]

speedchuck on Sloonei

Spoiler: show

@speedchuck do you have any developed thoughts on jack and/or nutella? What about anyone else in the game?

I think the Jack/Nutella thing was interesting, primarily because of reactions to it. Tedxtr's reaction was notable, like he was incredibly pro-nutella and focused on nutella. Dunno if that's changed.

@tedxtr do you know nutella prior to this?

Having read over the last two pages, Dys and Dom are my top townreads. Their votes are on people I would like to see lynched.

I got twenty minutes. Lets go.

Expand on this, mr chuck

I got weird vibes from Ted D1, and then he appeared reluctant to address Dizzy's 'scumslip' on him. It wasn't the slip itself that bothered me, but his forced nonchalance about it? Something like that. Lol at her flipping votes, though.

The Mac read is nothing special. I agree with what Jay said about his Dom post, and a few other sentiments expressed in the past two pages.

Dizzy and Dom both seemed like fairly stable, level heads in the thread D1. I like town dizzy and town dom.

Bonus: I don't care to lynch G-man.

Ted, Jack, and Colin are the names to look into if we’re right about sig. Dom is a fringe candidate too, and I saw someone float Tranq as well. I have no reason to object to that.

This for if Sig is scum?

Yes

What happened to mac

Michelle? speedchuck?

What?

we were looking for people to join the sig wagon for mechanical reasons.

I'm pressed for time. I'd like more than 'mechanical reasons' as an explanation.

but [VOTE: Sig] aubergine

If sig is mafia he has a 50% chance of starting the day with -2 votes on him. If we are inclined to lynch him and neutralize his team today, it is ideal to give him a comfortable lead in the poll.

Ah, better to gank the -2 vote thing earlier than later. Yes. I'll stick with that then.

This for if Sig is scum?

Yes

What happened to mac

That’s what I’m wondering

These are the candidates to be the last remaining member of the sig/sabie/radishes team. Mac is not on that team.

Lol it's like the inverse of that Mac/Dom misunderstanding from a day ago

Hey guys just wanna catch up here a bitty bit.

Mac is still a person who could survive a nightkill but isn't who sig 'slipped' him to be? Or even on the same team?

How would we parse that? My sig suspicion remains independent of the 'slip', but it's a lot weaker without it.

This is actually a terrible look for Speed.

I'm not concerned about that. I've kept up with the game enough to think Mac was going to flip Anti-Monitor. I was surprised to see Saitama.

Saitama is exactly the role sig said he thought Mac was though back on d2 and the one that makes sense with all the theories. But ok.

Yea it reeks for speed honestly. I've been going after this and specifically this role forever.

And you expect me to have read any of those posts... why?

I skimmed Dizzy's post, then voted. After the lynch, I saw Sloonei and Juliets having a conversation like this:

"Sloonei is still a prime suspect."
"I don't get it, why?"

And I'm like WTF did something not go as planned? Mac seems to have flipped scum. What's going on?

So I asked.

I’ve argued against town reads on myself as town before.

Why though.

Sometimes because I don’t want things about me to be misconstrued, other times because I want to get a better read on the person reading me.

omigawd nuance.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME It looks like you need to show me where you talked about the reasons to townread you.

Of the six Jay voters, Tony, Dom, Epi, Tranq, TH and myself, I only see the potential for two of them to even be baddies.

Of the six Sig voters, Ted, Michelle, Speed, Nanook, Sloonei and Juliets, I have mixed feelings about all of them.

Is it two of the T's? Which ones?

As for the wagons themselves... I'm okay with lynching Jay, but not lynching sig seems really weird.

Tranq and TH.

Can you give us a rainbow or proposed players for each team? I’m picking up your opinions on specific issues but not where you’re at overall.

speedchuck

Dom
Jackofhearts2005
G-Man
Epignosis
juliets

Dragomir
ColinIsCool
Sloonei
TonyStarkPrime
Tranq

Michelle

Turnip Head
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME 2.0
JaggedJimmyJay
tedxtr

sig

Something like that. It's difficult, since there are two teams, and there are multiple players in there I don't recall reading any posts from. Lots of players in this game. Proposed players for each team would be harder still.
I think my individual takes are probably more useful.

Need five town other than me out of the following.

speedchuck

Jackofhearts2005
juliets
Epignosis

TonyStarkPrime
Tranq

Michelle
G-Man

Sloonei
JaggedJimmyJay
tedxtr

I have negative reads on Michelle that have been assuaged by the meta of not having played her before. I had a positive light of G-man because we were suspected for generally the same reasons early-game, but it doesn't feel concrete now.
I don't recall reading anything from the T's. Maybe because I payed most attention to this game around the time of the split, and regarding feelings during the split.

I'm a definite on Jay and Ted. Sloonei I'm historically bad at reading, but haven't seen something in memory that keeps him out of the bottom.

I mean, if it's Jay, Sloonei, GMan, I don't see the problem.

Aye, but I think Jay should be lynched first.

G-Man's final Day 2 vote was for Sloonei, not Mac.

Oh. What.

What’s the best reason we have to town read speedchuck?

Townreading me wins you the game if you're town. Good reason right there.

@G-Man why was sloonei the best choice to receive your vote on Day 2?

On Day 2 I trusted Dyslexicon and sheeped that vote out of a lack of other reads.

There was no chance of me being lynched and two or three competing viable wagons at the time. Why was Sloonei the best vote?

On Day 2 I trusted Dyslexicon and sheeped that vote out of a lack of other reads.

Why vote at all?

what

Jay’s behavior today is also exactly what I’d expect from him as a civilian. He got some pressure on him and it flipped a switch. He started pressing everything and re-examining things. He lost his zen and reclaimed the crown of fuck mountain.

I don't know what thread you're reading.

I juliets is mafia, on either team, she deserves to win.

Preach!

Jay, Sloonei, and probably Ted are still mafia. My reads are the same. Screw this game. Screw the unwillingness of anyone on this stupid forum to lynch Jay when he's pumping out worthless content because 'other players are posting less'.

And screw self-voting as well.

There was no case on G-man other than 'he's busy, he did a gimmick and later self-voted'

Meanwhile Jay's over here making love to his scum meta with Sloonei cheering him on.

There is one thing I don't like here. Toward the end when speedchuck was campaigning in his cranky way to destroy me, he always tacked Sloonei's name with me. Both of us were bad, but I had to die first. For reasons y'all will soon understand, that's a problem. The connection is meaningless, and it only serves to protect Sloonei in a roundabout way.

Generally I don't think it's speedchuck, but he should still answer to that.

Jay, are you saying you think speedchuck knows who you are and that's why it's problematic that he thought you should go first?

[Michelle]

@@Michelle I think you missed Night 3 in your list. If I'm not mistaken no one died that night. I don't know if that's important to your analysis but I just noticed it was missing.

I copy pasted from the 1st post. I missed it because there is missing

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay, are you saying you think speedchuck knows who you are and that's why it's problematic that he thought you should go first?

It leaves the potential that speedchuck knows who Sloonei is, and that I am not on Sloonei's team. By gluing us together like that and insisting I die first, he protects Sloonei two-fold. Sloonei doesn't get lynched, and when I flip civilian it makes Sloonei look better too -- the connection is severed.

[juliets]

Juliets, I'm a stream of consciousness poster. I start from an idea, then go through posts. I may start with an opinion and then end up on another. There's no pre-filtering of my thoughts, and that's what makes me town!

If I were scum I'd have pre-filtered everything. I'm literally stating how I feel about something at that point, a lot of times, while writing and getting a stronger feel for someone (that was Tranq in that case) my other lean fades and my ideas kind of go like that

My brain is a fucking mess but you should be able to see the progression tho

And just the way you're even handling me right now, it seems like you are just forced to say something in order to fight it back. It's the same thing you and Master Radishes have done, you think I have an essay of a case sitting in my brain attic when it's just a mere gut feeling that can come and go, it's more based on how yesterday went and remembering there isn't nothing exceptionally townie to lock it. A lot of it is based strictly on suppositions and how the team is formed, I don't have anything concrete on you, it's just what it is, it's my feeling, you're a matter of PoE. I can't come up with an explanation on how the master team is formed without having you in it.

It's not something I can really describe, sorry, you can't really change my mind on it unless it's through other means, but never have I changed my mind when being approached directly by my scum reads. If you actually want to sort me, you have 350 posts at your disposal, the only time you appeared to be engaged in reading me was when I expressed a scum read on you and when Jay's getting pushed you suddenly switch on me cuz i don't fucking know why.

You just haven't obvtowned at all, you're kinda just there and if you were so obvtown and hard to push you would've honestly been dead by now, no?

I honestly haven't really remembered anything you posted except for the sig case or your questions at SVS which seemed really townie, but that was on Day 1. This is late game and I'd be a reckless fool not to even consider you being scum here. Your latest actions haven't really been reflective of a town lean here, it looks like you're just in cruise control.

ted, you have no idea what my obvtown self looks like if you think this. And if you're saying if I was obvtown I would be dead how does that not hold for every other civ who is alive? Anyone who knows my game knows I'm not on cruise control.

Well we are lynching what appears to be one of the active scums right now, why aren't you one?

Like you are literally voting for someone that you think is scum, no? It's Jay and he's active, you should have already answered the question yourself.

I don't understand what you are saying here.

[juliets]

Jay, are you saying you think speedchuck knows who you are and that's why it's problematic that he thought you should go first?

It leaves the potential that speedchuck knows who Sloonei is, and that I am not on Sloonei's team. By gluing us together like that and insisting I die first, he protects Sloonei two-fold. Sloonei doesn't get lynched, and when I flip civilian it makes Sloonei look better too -- the connection is severed.

Ok yeah I see what you are saying. Thanks -