Pyre Mafia [ENDGAME]

[dunya]

but there were two wagons and you were there for them...i dunno, maybe we just play differently lol.

rest of your iso looks fine tbh so you can take a town lean.

[cayvie]

idk i looked over the MJ iso again and the worst/weirdest thing I see is the inexplicable carot locktowning

[Sloonei]

I'm really uninspired right now. I'm probably giving too many temporary town reads because "x didn't really get in the game but tone seems sincere".

It also appears that you are still voting for me.

Who have you given town passes to? Who deserves to have their town pass revoked?

[Long Con]

but there were two wagons and you were there for them...i dunno, maybe we just play differently lol.

rest of your iso looks fine tbh so you can take a town lean.

Pretty sure I said I didn't think Radishes was scum when he was yeeted.

[Carotenoid]

I'm really uninspired right now. I'm probably giving too many temporary town reads because "x didn't really get in the game but tone seems sincere".

It also appears that you are still voting for me.

Who have you given town passes to? Who deserves to have their town pass revoked?

Oh, I wasn't voting for you in spirit though.
I have given "town passes" to Long Con (for the post-N1 flip posts) - MacDougall - TonyStarkPrime - KZA - moth - NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - DrWilgy.

I feel a lot better about MacDougall and feel comfortable keeping him town.
I'm conflicted on DrWilgy.
Regarding the rest of the list, they didn't really do anything that makes me wanna townread/scumread them more, it's just... A list where there's probably at least an alien but that also feels like throwing darts blindfolded.

[moth]

is this lylo

[moth]

Asking for a friend

[Sloonei]

I doubt we started this game with ~9 mafia members, so we're probably good.

[Sloonei]

What's the deal with Tony, mothman?

[moth]

What's the deal with Tony, mothman?

hes scummier than champs. either doesnt care as much or is just a wolf

[Sloonei]

What's the deal with Tony, mothman?

hes scummier than champs. either doesnt care as much or is just a wolf

Did you target him in any way last night or Night 1?

[moth]

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

[cayvie]

Sloonei, you wanted more out of OW, you got it, you moved off him. Is this an accurate summary?

[moth]

cayvie birb

[moth]

flat,750x1000,075,f.jpg (67.12 KiB) Viewed 629 times

is you town pardner

[cayvie]

cayvie birb

moth you missed it in spec chat earlier where we were all roleplaying as ants in an ant colony you would have fit right in

[cayvie]

is you town pardner

yes

[Sloonei]

This is the first mention I can find of Turnip Head in Marcher's ISO. This comes mid-Day 2:

@Marcher Jovian what are your thoughts on nutella, Turnip Head, Sloonei and Soneji?

nutella—her pushes have felt kinda sketch, like opportunistic and ill-founded. but pushing on the maybe they’re masons thing shows like that extra degree of thinking and uncertainty about the game. Need to think whether it’s good enough to give her space and not vote her today
Turnip Head—I remember not enough about this person. They confidently pushed MR yesterday based on meta reads. People with meta on TH, how confident/brazen are they as a wolf? A bit of a wagon earlier today, tedxtr liked the iso. I ought to check this iso
Sloonei—this post summed up my thoughts, http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... ya#p620996 . Wagon comp looks kinda weird. Probably falls under “player good enough they ought to get another day to give them a chance to clear themselves”
Soneji—Posted very little. The few posts they’ve made have been underwhelming. [insert thoughts that are illegal in MU but I don’t know the exact etiquette about on Syndicate]

A couple hours later, Marcher provides this list:

town
carotenoid

townlean
bronana
kza
moth
nanook
nutella
tedxtr

null
drwilgy
dunya
Long Con
MacDougall
motobot
outed wolf
Sloonei
Soneji
TonyStarkPrime

wolflean
lissa
TurnipHead

Exactly half of Marcher's reads fall under the "null" heading, but Turnip Head is not one of them; instead, TH is at the very bottom of this list as a "wolflean" along with lissa and nobody else. I do not know what exactly the wagon composition was at this moment (that's my next assignment), but this is, at best, a puzzling look for Marcher.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, you wanted more out of OW, you got it, you moved off him. Is this an accurate summary?

Correlation is not causation.

[Sloonei]

I'm gonna go ahead and assume moth's soft claim about Tony was not cereal.

[cayvie]

Sloonei, you wanted more out of OW, you got it, you moved off him. Is this an accurate summary?

Correlation is not causation.

mafia, the game of independent variables, from milton bradley

[moth]

5FqpoFB.jpg (151.19 KiB) Viewed 623 times

[Sloonei]

outed wolf's exasperated "sloonei is tunneling me" post did strike me as authentic, for what it's worth. Not nearly enough to make him not a suspect, but it was an uptick.

[cayvie]

This is the first mention I can find of Turnip Head in Marcher's ISO. This comes mid-Day 2:

@Marcher Jovian what are your thoughts on nutella, Turnip Head, Sloonei and Soneji?

nutella—her pushes have felt kinda sketch, like opportunistic and ill-founded. but pushing on the maybe they’re masons thing shows like that extra degree of thinking and uncertainty about the game. Need to think whether it’s good enough to give her space and not vote her today
Turnip Head—I remember not enough about this person. They confidently pushed MR yesterday based on meta reads. People with meta on TH, how confident/brazen are they as a wolf? A bit of a wagon earlier today, tedxtr liked the iso. I ought to check this iso
Sloonei—this post summed up my thoughts, http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... ya#p620996 . Wagon comp looks kinda weird. Probably falls under “player good enough they ought to get another day to give them a chance to clear themselves”
Soneji—Posted very little. The few posts they’ve made have been underwhelming. [insert thoughts that are illegal in MU but I don’t know the exact etiquette about on Syndicate]

A couple hours later, Marcher provides this list:

town
carotenoid

townlean
bronana
kza
moth
nanook
nutella
tedxtr

null
drwilgy
dunya
Long Con
MacDougall
motobot
outed wolf
Sloonei
Soneji
TonyStarkPrime

wolflean
lissa
TurnipHead

Exactly half of Marcher's reads fall under the "null" heading, but Turnip Head is not one of them; instead, TH is at the very bottom of this list as a "wolflean" along with lissa and nobody else. I do not know what exactly the wagon composition was at this moment (that's my next assignment), but this is, at best, a puzzling look for Marcher.

in between those posts, MJ states that they did a TH iso:

TH iso hella underwhelming. I now see why I did not remember any of their other posts. It doesn’t feel like the same person who declared that MR was badishes. Do not mind the wagon here.

i think it's misleading of you to imply that there's no progression there. if you didn't mean to imply that, then i'm not sure what the thrust of your argument is.

[Sloonei]

I didn't see that. I was Ctrl+F'ing "Turnip" in Marcher's posts. Ctrl+F "TH" creates 500 results per page.

[cayvie]

I didn't see that. I was Ctrl+F'ing "Turnip" in Marcher's posts. Ctrl+F "TH" creates 500 results per page.

put spaces before and after " TH "

[Sloonei]

I still find Turnip's placement at the bottom of Marcher's reads list to be a bit puzzling in the full context of the thing. 9 players are null. I am null with 300+ posts at the time. Dunya is null, Long Con is null... but Turnip Head has done enough to be the top suspect? I'm gonna carry on with my investigation into the state of things at that point.

[Sloonei]

I didn't see that. I was Ctrl+F'ing "Turnip" in Marcher's posts. Ctrl+F "TH" creates 500 results per page.

put spaces before and after " TH "

You just got here and you're already pointing out obvious hacks that would have made my life a thousand times easier over the last several years?

[cayvie]

actually [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

it's the very next post in the iso after the first post you quoted. i don't think i believe you could have missed it--it's right there, if you look at the iso. i don't think you could have clicked the little "jump to post" button to quote the first post without incidentally reading the one i pointed out.

[cayvie]

I didn't see that. I was Ctrl+F'ing "Turnip" in Marcher's posts. Ctrl+F "TH" creates 500 results per page.

put spaces before and after " TH "

You just got here and you're already pointing out obvious hacks that would have made my life a thousand times easier over the last several years?

hey i come from a forum where we don't even have isos and we have to iso people by ctrl+fing unique words in people's sigs

[Sloonei]

actually [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

it's the very next post in the iso after the first post you quoted. i don't think i believe you could have missed it--it's right there, if you look at the iso. i don't think you could have clicked the little "jump to post" button to quote the first post without incidentally reading the one i pointed out.

nah.

I've been marcher's #1 or 2 cheerleader all game. I'm not even committed to a negative read on them at this moment. I'm doing all of this because I want to challenge my own town read on them. If you're reading this as an attempt to bury a player then you are just as guilty as I am of missing crucial context.

[DrWilgy]

I'm also being dissuaded from OW. The recent posts make me think I can relate to a frustration they have.

The only recent post that I had trouble reading from a civ POV was the following.

i will say if sloonei is a wolf i have enjoyed watching the way he has crafted the narrative against me

very clever, its nice to watch the little steps fall into place and the ramping up when necessary

[mention]outed wolf[/mention] I havent yet I've seen you comment on KZA recently. Please provide thoughts as you seem to be calling out the rest of the slankers.

[Sloonei]

Interesting™ moment
~ 28-33 hours into D2
Carotenoid (1) : moth
DrWilgy (2) : dunya, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Lissa (1) : Marcher Jovian
Marcher Jovian (2) : tedxtr, KZA
nutella (1) : Sloonei
outed wolf (2) : nutella, MacDougall
Sloonei (3) : Turnip Head, bronana, Lissa
Soneji (1) : outed wolf
Turnip Head (3) : TonyStarkPrime, Long Con, Carotenoid

No vote (3) : DrWilgy, motobot, Soneji

aubergine

This post suggests that Turnup was an established wagon at the time Marcher decided they were the scummiest player in the game.

[Long Con]

I didn't see that. I was Ctrl+F'ing "Turnip" in Marcher's posts. Ctrl+F "TH" creates 500 results per page.

put spaces before and after " TH "

You just got here and you're already pointing out obvious hacks that would have made my life a thousand times easier over the last several years?

I know. I like her too!

[Sloonei]

Even factoring in that Marcher allegedly ISO'd turnip head, I struggle to just accept this pattern of events.

Turnip Head is an established wagon midday. Marcher ISOs them, comes to the conclusion that they are "underwhelming" and places them at the far bottom of their reads list. Said reads list is predominantly null (18 reads total. 9 are "null". That's exactly half, for those scoring at home). Turnip Head is one of two "wolfleans" because they are "hella underwhelming." In a game where Marcher perceives half the player list as "null", how on earth does "hella underwhelming" qualify as a firm suspicion? Why are players like Mac, nanook, and soneji not also "wolfleans" if that's all it takes?

[dunya]

[mention]NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME[/mention] if you haven't already, i don't recommend asking about your stats. boy oh boy. a sight you don't want to see.

[dunya]

Dunya is a few things. Like her early posts on d1 felt a bit dunya.exe (though that might be just a multitabling thing) and her sheep onto radishes and eod in general feels kinda ehhhh. d2 feels fine and actually feels good vibes but I know she's a good player and has nothing really clearing her and stepping between a tvt tunnel and saying "I think you're both town" is a classic move for cred

what does dunya.exe mean?

how do you know these things about me?

[dunya]

If Radish says I'm scum you can trust him.

Can confirm.

And if Kaz says I'm scum you can't trust him.

Townie:
KZA - meta read; we've played together plenty and he sounds comfortable here

Talk some more about kza, Señor Radish.

Swell guy.

Likes anime.

Was once a cactus.

Has a strong town game, and, in fact, is the resident expert on Canucks.com at finding scum in D1. (Lately, he hasn't lived very long after that.) Doesn't rand scum often and it is his weaker alignment to play.

Until Champs this year, where he was unjustly misyeeted D1 because of culture clash, he hasn't played off site as far as I know. Thus I expect him to come into this game...not hesitant or anything, but perhaps a little less sure in himself than when on familiar ground. He won't be able to rely on meta, which forms a vital core of his strong D1 reads on CDC.

So far he's been light and breezy but trying to poke a bit, albeit maybe not effectively. But basically he seems comfortable enough considering he's surrounded by strangers, some of whom have a bit of a pedigree.

(There is a bit of a chance his scum game will be better here because of those same factors, of course.)

Worth noting

Zack made a compelling point here

if marcher is wolf, i would bed kza is wolf before bronana.

[bronana]

Despite how the game has gone so far, I think we may actually be reasonably close to a solve. Starting to feel like one of those games where the village implodes for a few days then turns it around.

Ordering is just alphabetical unless otherwise noted. Excluding myself.

I think these are villagers, though I don't feel super confident about it:

Spoiler: show

Lissa - constant mindmelding, villagy sass. can understand ow's concerns to some degree.

KZA - part radishes sheep, part think he's just been comfortable doing his thing in his corner.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - kinda similar to kza read. also the n1 triumvirate thing.

The above three have also fairly consistently pushed some of my strongest wolfreads. If those are wrong, I'd want to re-evaluate these people.

----

This next group are some of the most active. I'm a little skeptical, but it could just be paranoia and most are likely villagers:

Spoiler: show

Carotenoid - disliked their d1. d2 was villagy. not crazy about d3.

dunya - at some points i've felt they were tonally pure, but she's also a bit underwhelming imo. also the n1 triumvirate thing.

moth - he probably does not go so out of his way to be a dick to me for no reason as wolf. i liked the TSP thing even if it was clearly fake. been pretty UTR the last few days though.

nutella - top poster, most people seem to townread her, apparently is some sort of (somewhat) verifiable PR. still didn't die n2 and tbh her posts still just look wolfy to me but shrug.

outed wolf - liked his recent postings while i was asleep. it's hard to give a firm townread here with how he's played, but I think it would be a bit strange if he played like this as a wolf. and some of the votes/pushes for him have felt opportunistic, and ffs don't ask me to pull up a bunch of specific examples.

Sloonei - seems to be solving, sometimes his tone seems a bit off and i disagree with a lot of what he's saying and he's been pretty dismissive a lot of the time. could be powerwolfing, could be a villager with a difference of opinion.

----

Null, essentially:

Spoiler: show

Long Con - some weird posts, have no real thoughts on him tho

MacDougall - don't understand why he became so townread. him repping the same static lissa read the entire game is sketchy and a lot of his posts just seem like random crap. not much solving here.

motobot - how am i supposed to read an 8 year old who barely posts lol. maybe not a wolf if wilgy or OW are?

----

Possibly a wolf not getting enough attention:

Spoiler: show

Soneji / cayvie - didn't care for soneji's few posts. cayvie's posts are meh.

----

I think these are wolves:

Spoiler: show

DrWilgy - for the first few days he only cared about the game at eod which is >rand wolf in my experience. hollow questions. counter-wagon to two misyeets. wolves for some reason seem largely uninterested in voting him.

TonyStarkPrime - had bad vibes here on d1, and backed off mostly out of respect to radishes, but also because some of the pushes on TSP skeeved me out a bit (I remember feeling like he was being propped up as a way to avoid yeeting marcher or wilgy). That said, his posts aren't villagy - wolfy, even! - and now multiple people have chimed in that he is lacking compared to previous towngames.

Marcher Jovian - consistently posts with a wolfy pov. d0+d1 was very similar to recent wolf game and different to recent town game. posts d2 on have been straight up wolfy. i have made plenty of posts about this already, tired of repeating myself. Marcher's placement is not alphabetical.

[dunya]

dunya - at some points i've felt they were tonally pure, but she's also a bit underwhelming imo. also the n1 triumvirate thing.

damn, first time in my mafia life someone calls me underwhelming

damn

damnn

[bronana]

but I know she's a good player

how do you know these things about me?

[Sloonei]

marcher seems to have come bearing many meta reads no all of us. I don't read that as alignment indicative.

[dunya]

Marcher Jovian - consistently posts with a wolfy pov. d0+d1 was very similar to recent wolf game and different to recent town game.

can i get a link pls thx

TonyStarkPrime - had bad vibes here on d1, and backed off mostly out of respect to radishes, but also because some of the pushes on TSP skeeved me out a bit

what do you think of TSPs reaction coming into a thread where moth said he has a red check on TSP?

Sloonei - seems to be solving, sometimes his tone seems a bit off and i disagree with a lot of what he's saying and he's been pretty dismissive a lot of the time. could be powerwolfing, could be a villager with a difference of opinion.

its good to be paranoid of sloonei. can you tell me where he's been dismissive exactly because i haven't noticed it.

Lissa - constant mindmelding, villagy sass. can understand ow's concerns to some degree.

can you tell me of your experience with lissa. have you played with her before?

[dunya]

marcher seems to have come bearing many meta reads no all of us. I don't read that as alignment indicative.

pourquoi?

anyway, whether it's alignment indicative or not is not the issue; i'm genuinely curious and wanna know how they know i'm awesome. it's true of course, but like, my ego needs more stroking in this game and im just starting to get warmed up now.

[dunya]

i feel good about bronana. he can be my new ted. considering he wants marcher gone, he practically *is* the new ted.

[Sloonei]

marcher seems to have come bearing many meta reads no all of us. I don't read that as alignment indicative.

pourquoi?

anyway, whether it's alignment indicative or not is not the issue; i'm genuinely curious and wanna know how they know i'm awesome. it's true of course, but like, my ego needs more stroking in this game and im just starting to get warmed up now.

They were hanging out in champs spec chat for a while before coming here, I think.

I know this because the same thing came up when ted first cased marcher.

[bronana]

looked at a town and wolf game from marcher on cfc. They did the endless questions thing in the wolf game that they've been criticized for here, while the town game seemed to not have that at all, much more direct.

i'm totally trustworthy, but if you want to double check my work:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ ... ry.657987/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ ... ry.659154/

didnt think much of tsp's reaction

sloonei has said "No." and/or been distinctly uncooperative with like 90% of any of the questions i've asked him. he only ever responded to my marcher stuff by saying "i still townred marcher" unexplained

I have played with lissa countless times before

[Marcher Jovian]

Dunya is a few things. Like her early posts on d1 felt a bit dunya.exe (though that might be just a multitabling thing) and her sheep onto radishes and eod in general feels kinda ehhhh. d2 feels fine and actually feels good vibes but I know she's a good player and has nothing really clearing her and stepping between a tvt tunnel and saying "I think you're both town" is a classic move for cred

what does dunya.exe mean?

how do you know these things about me?

Didn't you have the highest winrate in the site for a bit?

Dunya.exe meant like sorta falling back onto basic playing mafia stuff. Like look at this conflict. eval this thing and say results. eval that thing and say results. say input into this conflict. dump reads here. without having the sort of typical random tangents and little pokings.

[bronana]

marcher seems to have come bearing many meta reads no all of us. I don't read that as alignment indicative.

pourquoi?

anyway, whether it's alignment indicative or not is not the issue; i'm genuinely curious and wanna know how they know i'm awesome. it's true of course, but like, my ego needs more stroking in this game and im just starting to get warmed up now.

They were hanging out in champs spec chat for a while before coming here, I think.

I know this because the same thing came up when ted first cased marcher.

was dunya in champs?

[Marcher Jovian]

This thread http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... f=8&t=1614

and considering how syndicate is a pretty highly competitive site, this seems pretty indicative of you being good, too