Escape From Russia [GAME OVER]

[tedxtr]

games feel so sluggish

nobody's making cases we're just talking and talking and not getting anywhere with anything

What do you think of 112?

I think they're town ; why do you think they're scum?

Quite a few thing bugged me tbh. I would expand on it tomorrow, with quotes probably.

ok, do that

[Poison]

Ayy, gn guys

[Vulgard]

didn’t mac say wilgy is a very good scum player and wouldn’t slank so much as scum? because this is hard core slanking

Then there’s this later which ended up keeping Wilgy from being the cw

I'm more interesting in understanding why Mac's opinion about Wilgy is relevant here to anyone.

You all know that

1) Mac isn't in this and
2) Mac says utter bullshit to advance whatever Mac (sober or otherwise) wishes to advance

Right?

Well the view I’m positing that you don’t like is that Hally brought it up to steer the lynch away from Wilgy

Hell, I'm trying to get people to pick people other than Wilgy. It's boring and keeps mafia safe. If you are mafia, and Wilgy is on your team, you don't give a shit what happens to him because he isn't here. Oh well. If you are a civilian, then you should be trying to pin everybody else down. None of this "The game is on autopilot" bullshit (looking at you birthday boy ted).

If I'm Wilgy's teammate, I don't defend him. He either wins for us or he self-destructs. Hally isn't mafia.

epi is a villager

Why?
At this point, I'm locking you in as town, by the way. Still catching up.

[112]

[Vulgard]

[VOTE: Tonystarkprime] aubergine

Should still die. Will case it later, when I have the time. I won't have the time today.

Hally's town.
No idea why Hally's clearing Dunyapignosis, but I guess I can sheep that temporarily.

Wilgy probably spewed town if TSP is mafia.
I dislike 2 people in my PoE pushing Wilgy. It feels really slimey.

[Long Con]

Tony and Michelle most obvious town 2020.

why is Tony obvious town

checking in briefly, will probably have to dip again

the number of people familiar with TSP's meta saying things like 'WHY ARE YOU KILLING HIM HE'S ALWAYS LIKE THIS' is making me kind of nervous

also I obviously don't want a rand

but killing a 2-poster seems kind of mrrr

but I kind of think I might do it anyway

wowee

I moved my vote

I'm killing your two-poster for you Nanook

how does this make you feel

Ok, so here's the deal

this is a very bad EoD especially if wilgy is wolf (or maybe TSP /shrug)

no way are you worried about TSP flipping town here ; you were questioning people why they had him villa an hour ago

you also said you weren't gonna be here for EoD

I find it very unlikely a villager would come back to move here. They had no reads on anybody saying TSP was town, I don't know how them voting a 2 poster over TSP makes sense in any world. I don't know the wagonomics, but immediately seeing this I thought it was a defence of either Wilgy who got bombed with votes and TSP wagon left the station and TH was the fighting wagon.

The comment to Nanook may give it away ; I read it as some type of self-awareness trying to be brushed off by making forced thoughts / jokes. Like what's that post doing? What's it's purpose?

This works for me. I like this case. [VOTE: arete] aubergine

kinda think though the arete n1 stuff about vul feels genuine

Not sure if it's the same stuff, but I feel it was around the same time when I had the same feeling about Vul. I believe I commented on it at some point back then.

[Vulgard]

Arete wagon is bad and you should feel bad for voting there.

[tedxtr]

Arete wagon is bad and you should feel bad for voting there.

you didn't answer the quiz kind sir

[Vulgard]

The way Arete played their EoD is in line with their town play. They don't do this as mafia.

There are examples from literally Champs where they handled EoD in a similar fashion. Stop this.

[tedxtr]

it's kind of funny how you think TSP is scum but when I talk about Arete's EoD you don't see how bad it looks in a TSP wolf world lmao

[Vulgard]

I guess his read on them is a bit odd. Like he says they're not their normal town self, not their normal scum self, maybe 3p... but definitely not mafia? I'm not quite sure how that computes.

i do want to ask @Vulgard about this. vul, you said you’re absolutely certain arete isn’t mafia/doesn’t have tmi but at the same time they’re not like their town self. where does your confidence that arete absolutely isn’t mafia stem from?

Because MafiaRete is a powerwolf and has agenda. Nothing they have done yesterday had any agenda, at any point.

[Vulgard]

it's kind of funny how you think TSP is scum but when I talk about Arete's EoD you don't see how bad it looks in a TSP wolf world lmao

I don't care. I can read Arete better than anyone else here. Arete is town.

[Vulgard]

Feel like we have >rand chance to hit wolves if we look at people that are “solving on islands” or whatever you wanna call it

Arete, LC

Wilgy is probably just scum, he doesn’t fit that characterization but he’s scummy outside of that, I think

can you elaborate on these thoughts? what do you mean, solving on islands? why are arete/lc the people that fit that description and does anyone else? and can you go more in depth on wilgy?

the most simple explanation is that they give thoughts without advancing too much and not interacting with what's going in on the thread at the moment they're in it.

basically completely disconnected players that let conflicts arise and don't weigh in AT ALL. Why is it bad? Because I think we keep getting tangled in T/T arguments.

Arete = only attempted to read Vulgard and didn't have other thoughts or moments where we can see she's trying to solve the game. She jumped on TSP as soon as the case on him arrived but didn't do anything else.

LC = engages in fluff, stays out of conflicts (Michelle / Poison, Ash / whoever, TSP / Ash)

Not pretty sure on LC but Arete doesn't really look like she's trying to solve the game and the Vulgard progression is kind of left open in order to keep poking at it but she keeps pushing the same details that she already should've solved from. Arete keeps asking Vulgard why he writes academically when he already answered and it doesn't read like she's trying to solve him based on it, just to keep conversation going.

(wilgy poast to be continued)

I have the same idea about the gamestate, but disagree with Arete as a suspect.

I think 112 is town...ier?

[Hally]

didn’t mac say wilgy is a very good scum player and wouldn’t slank so much as scum? because this is hard core slanking

Then there’s this later which ended up keeping Wilgy from being the cw

I'm more interesting in understanding why Mac's opinion about Wilgy is relevant here to anyone.

You all know that

1) Mac isn't in this and
2) Mac says utter bullshit to advance whatever Mac (sober or otherwise) wishes to advance

Right?

Well the view I’m positing that you don’t like is that Hally brought it up to steer the lynch away from Wilgy

Hell, I'm trying to get people to pick people other than Wilgy. It's boring and keeps mafia safe. If you are mafia, and Wilgy is on your team, you don't give a shit what happens to him because he isn't here. Oh well. If you are a civilian, then you should be trying to pin everybody else down. None of this "The game is on autopilot" bullshit (looking at you birthday boy ted).

If I'm Wilgy's teammate, I don't defend him. He either wins for us or he self-destructs. Hally isn't mafia.

epi is a villager

Why?
At this point, I'm locking you in as town, by the way. Still catching up.

felt it in that moment

[Vulgard]

it's kind of funny how you think TSP is scum but when I talk about Arete's EoD you don't see how bad it looks in a TSP wolf world lmao

I don't care. I can read Arete better than anyone else here. Arete is town.

I correctly read them town in all three Champs games they played, and I've outed them as mafia on day 1 numerous times before. I can give you links to games where it happened. I don't think there's any reason this should change in the game we're currently playing.
Obviously I'll re-evaluate that if I need to, but I don't feel the need to re-evaluate that now.

[Hally]

I guess his read on them is a bit odd. Like he says they're not their normal town self, not their normal scum self, maybe 3p... but definitely not mafia? I'm not quite sure how that computes.

i do want to ask @Vulgard about this. vul, you said you’re absolutely certain arete isn’t mafia/doesn’t have tmi but at the same time they’re not like their town self. where does your confidence that arete absolutely isn’t mafia stem from?

Because MafiaRete is a powerwolf and has agenda. Nothing they have done yesterday had any agenda, at any point.

what if they just don’t have time to power wolf?

[tedxtr]

Nothing they have done yesterday had any agenda, at any point.

[Vulgard]

Arete is just trying to stall her progressions as much as possible from my point of view. Her dragging the Vulgard thing on is prettay wolfy, just call him wolf or town already.

If you don't have him as wolf or town, then interact with people that do and ask why.

She doesn't really seem like she's interested in figuring Vulgard at all.

That's literally the way town Arete handles their read on me. Scum Arete just declares my alignment. TownRete needs time.
Nothing you're saying is convincing me that this is mafia Arete.

[Hally]

it's kind of funny how you think TSP is scum but when I talk about Arete's EoD you don't see how bad it looks in a TSP wolf world lmao

I don't care. I can read Arete better than anyone else here. Arete is town.

I correctly read them town in all three Champs games they played, and I've outed them as mafia on day 1 numerous times before. I can give you links to games where it happened. I don't think there's any reason this should change in the game we're currently playing.
Obviously I'll re-evaluate that if I need to, but I don't feel the need to re-evaluate that now.

so you’re entirely unconvinced by ted’s points?

[Vulgard]

I guess his read on them is a bit odd. Like he says they're not their normal town self, not their normal scum self, maybe 3p... but definitely not mafia? I'm not quite sure how that computes.

i do want to ask @Vulgard about this. vul, you said you’re absolutely certain arete isn’t mafia/doesn’t have tmi but at the same time they’re not like their town self. where does your confidence that arete absolutely isn’t mafia stem from?

Talking about vul, didn't he kinda drop a little activity wise as well as content wise?

@Arete what do you think of vul's current state in the game?

NAI. I play when I have time to play, which isn't always.

[Hally]

alright, arete wagon isn’t happening today. vul has spoken

[Vulgard]

it's kind of funny how you think TSP is scum but when I talk about Arete's EoD you don't see how bad it looks in a TSP wolf world lmao

I don't care. I can read Arete better than anyone else here. Arete is town.

I correctly read them town in all three Champs games they played, and I've outed them as mafia on day 1 numerous times before. I can give you links to games where it happened. I don't think there's any reason this should change in the game we're currently playing.
Obviously I'll re-evaluate that if I need to, but I don't feel the need to re-evaluate that now.

so you’re entirely unconvinced by ted’s points?

I'm evaluating them, and I see why he thinks Arete is mafia, but I think for those reasons Arete is town.

[tedxtr]

Like why would Arete be nervous about a wolf read flipping town? Makes no sense, feels performative.

If you don't get the reasoning, then ask for it. TSP's defenders didn't even give a solid reason as to why he's town, they just said "lol this isn't TSP's scum game lol"

that's why I felt like her coming back at EoD was to defend either wilgy who got wagonned like crap or potentially TSP. I don't know the order of events.

Like why would Arete be nervous about a wolf read flipping town? Makes no sense, feels performative.

especially when people that are defending him don't give you anything to work with other than "this is his town meta"

I don't find it likely that a villager would drop their vote just because a bunch of nulls are saying he's town, I would be nervous if like TSP was a PR or something, but she had no reason to question her read there unless it was fake in the first place or she's trying to save someone.

I feel like Arete's EoD is very agenda driven and I'm waiting for thoughts.

ask yourselves, if you're in a position of being a villager, you have no idea why people are town reading someone, does it make sense for you that you'd be "scared" of your scum read flipping town when :

1) Nobody gives you a reason why
2) An hour ago you had no idea why they town read him
3) It's D1 and you only had a scum read for the entire phase

you don't think this points to an agenda at all?

[Hally]

we’re not killing arete today over the wishes of the person who knows them best itg

[Vulgard]

I mean, I can just have Arete yeeted to prove myself right. Sorry if I sound egotistical, it just baffles me that Arete is the push today over people like TSP or even Wilgy, just like the TH day 1 yeet baffled me.

My townreads haven't actually changed much, except I dropped LC from them. My PoE currently looks like TSP/Wilgy/LC/Dunyapignosis with Michelle/112/ted as outside possibilities which I find unlikely. Maybe Ash too.

[Vulgard]

https://forum.throneoflies.com/t/sfm-ev ... 80627/2495

Finding MafiaRete right away on day 1.

The other two times from this year that I remember were in games where I wasn't a participant, so I can't link them.

[Vulgard]

I'm not doing it as a flex, I'm just doing it because I feel like I need to provide proof of this not being Arete's mafia game.

[Vulgard]

My PoE currently looks like TSP/Wilgy/LC/Dunyapignosis with Michelle/112/ted as outside possibilities which I find unlikely. Maybe Ash too.

And I will case TSP as soon as I can.

[tedxtr]

I mean, the fact that you found her wolf one time is not proof that you'd own her soul every time.

But I'll take your wish into account, I guess

[Vulgard]

I mean, the fact that you found her wolf one time is not proof that you'd own her soul every time.

But I'll take your wish into account, I guess

The other times from this year are times I don't have proof because I wasn't in the game itself, I just read it.
I understand that you don't believe me.

[Vulgard]

I think I missed why 112 is a wagon while re-reading.

[Vulgard]

So far, TSP has spent this entire phase being like "Wilgy mafia."
To be fair, I've spent the last phase being like "TSP mafia," but I actually have a PoE and I'm trying to evaluate things. I think.

[tedxtr]

i'll believe it, but if they don't get townier and we haven't hit woofs, they're walking the plank

i think you kind of glossed over my points, which is pretty meh. You say they had no agenda and I literally tell you what the agenda was and you're still like "nah"

just don't ignore reasoning for arrogance that you can own her is all. If you have actual reasons to believe she's town here, then that's fine.

[VOTE: DrWilgy ] aubergine

[Hally]

https://forum.throneoflies.com/t/sfm-ev ... 80627/2495

Finding MafiaRete right away on day 1.

The other two times from this year that I remember were in games where I wasn't a participant, so I can't link them.

how do you iso on this forum omg

[tedxtr]

I think I missed why 112 is a wagon while re-reading.

nobody actually knows

[Vulgard]

https://forum.throneoflies.com/t/sfm-ev ... 80627/2495

Finding MafiaRete right away on day 1.

The other two times from this year that I remember were in games where I wasn't a participant, so I can't link them.

how do you iso on this forum omg

Click somebody's nickname, then click "view posts in thread."

[Hally]

I think I missed why 112 is a wagon while re-reading.

that’s because people are just voting them/floating them as mafia without actually explaining it at all

[Vulgard]

i'll believe it, but if they don't get townier and we haven't hit woofs, they're walking the plank

i think you kind of glossed over my points, which is pretty meh. You say they had no agenda and I literally tell you what the agenda was and you're still like "nah"

just don't ignore reasoning for arrogance that you can own her is all. If you have actual reasons to believe she's town here, then that's fine.

[VOTE: DrWilgy ] aubergine

I find it very difficult to articulate a soulread. I'm really just bullshitting reasoning, because I don't know.
I see your points, and my brain is like "but Arete's still town. Ding dong. You are wrong."
But I obviously have to explain myself, so I invent something that makes at least SOME sense to me.

[Vulgard]

I think I missed why 112 is a wagon while re-reading.

that’s because people are just voting them/floating them as mafia without actually explaining it at all

Those two people also happen to be in my PoE and include my go-to push for today.
Hmm.

[Vulgard]

i'll believe it, but if they don't get townier and we haven't hit woofs, they're walking the plank

i think you kind of glossed over my points, which is pretty meh. You say they had no agenda and I literally tell you what the agenda was and you're still like "nah"

just don't ignore reasoning for arrogance that you can own her is all. If you have actual reasons to believe she's town here, then that's fine.

[VOTE: DrWilgy ] aubergine

I find it very difficult to articulate a soulread. I'm really just bullshitting reasoning, because I don't know.
I see your points, and my brain is like "but Arete's still town. Ding dong. You are wrong."
But I obviously have to explain myself, so I invent something that makes at least SOME sense to me.

I'll tell you a secret.

Only Hally and ted may open because they quarreled with me the most.

Spoiler: show

I've been frequently doing that this whole game. I don't know how to play mafia. Part of the reason I came here is to... learn how?
Maybe I'm assessing myself incorrectly.

[Vulgard]

LC's posts today have been

[tedxtr]

probably not a great place to start then lol

MU's easier, I found it more challenging here

[tedxtr]

i actually don't have any solid scum read but part of it is because I keep letting myself get pushed off my scum reads and then I'm like

"okay, maybe you know better" because I'm scared of being wrong

i need to learn to drop that

[Vulgard]

probably not a great place to start then lol

MU's easier, I found it more challenging here

I've been playing for three years. I just think I'm really bad at explaining things, so I've been overcompensating throughout this game.
All of my games on MU so far are games where I either got wrecked or carried, no in-between.

[Hally]

LC's posts today have been

they actually seem different from how he reacted to pressure as scum though. i saw more town!lc there for a bit

[Vulgard]

I really do think I know better about Arete, though. 300 collective years of experience.
Memes aside, I literally haven't been wrong about them once for a year, and we've played numerous games together, and I've seen them play many times. If there's anything I'm confident about, it's my Arete read.
I will keep evaluating Arete, obviously. I'm not just putting them on a shelf and saying "okay, this is always town." But right now I think it's town.

[Hally]

[mention]Epignosis[/mention] why are so you so sure i’m a villager to the point where you offered to let me own your vote? where did that confidence come from?

[tedxtr]

I just think I'm really bad at explaining things

same here

[Vulgard]

i actually don't have any solid scum read but part of it is because I keep letting myself get pushed off my scum reads and then I'm like

"okay, maybe you know better" because I'm scared of being wrong

i need to learn to drop that

Can we compare PoEs real quick? I'll do my best to write a solid TSP case later.

[Long Con]

LC's posts today have been

Yeah, I'm pretty .