Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [AMERICA RISES]

[TonyStarkPrime]

like if I'm a wolf there then I have no idea that nanook has info and thus have no reason to slow down the thread for the reason you're suggesting

[Seanzie]

Did I miss something and doom claim cop

a scan of her iso suggested she was the "New Reno or not" cop

I think instead of posting, for three hours today we should all just take a second to read through the setup, figure out our win conditions, figure out our powers, and then come back.

Time stamps say all here. TSP KNEW what Nook was asking, had digested it enough to look at DoO's iso, and a few minutes afterwards trying to take 3 HOURS out of the game for people to do things such as "figure out win conditions" (i.e. turn town against town).

[Seanzie]

like if I'm a wolf there then I have no idea that nanook has info and thus have no reason to slow down the thread for the reason you're suggesting

No? You mean as wolf if someone comes into the thread asking about your wolf-buddy, your wolf ears don't perk up?

[Seanzie]

@TonyStarkPrime why should Urist believe you over me?

[TonyStarkPrime]

like if I'm a wolf there then I have no idea that nanook has info and thus have no reason to slow down the thread for the reason you're suggesting

No? You mean as wolf if someone comes into the thread asking about your wolf-buddy, your wolf ears don't perk up?

nearly every other post on that page is me and urist talking about doom's claim

[TonyStarkPrime]

at some point you're going to have to figure out how nanook had info on made /without/ me giving him an invention but that's for another time

[Seanzie]

like if I'm a wolf there then I have no idea that nanook has info and thus have no reason to slow down the thread for the reason you're suggesting

No? You mean as wolf if someone comes into the thread asking about your wolf-buddy, your wolf ears don't perk up?

nearly every other post on that page is me and urist talking about doom's claim

It sounds like you were very cognizant of the situation. Why did you want people to take a 3 hour pause given the information in thread?

[Seanzie]

at some point you're going to have to figure out how nanook had info on made /without/ me giving him an invention but that's for another time

Already figured out, and explained in thread. Thanks though.

[TonyStarkPrime]

wait are you seriously going with the theory that he made it up

[TonyStarkPrime]

like if I'm a wolf there then I have no idea that nanook has info and thus have no reason to slow down the thread for the reason you're suggesting

No? You mean as wolf if someone comes into the thread asking about your wolf-buddy, your wolf ears don't perk up?

nearly every other post on that page is me and urist talking about doom's claim

It sounds like you were very cognizant of the situation. Why did you want people to take a 3 hour pause given the information in thread?

because I would like other people to be cognizant of the situation presumably

[Seanzie]

wait are you seriously going with the theory that he made it up

Are you seriously going with the theory that you knew he should have mech info and tried to slow the game down after he makes a post suggesting that he might have mech info?

He didn't "make it up". There was clearly suspicion on DoO from the day before, she was a natural target for a fakecheck, I've seen Nook do this sort of fakeclaim before. Usually early in the day. When I've seen it he was wrong, and eventually admited it was fake, but in this case if he was right and thought he was right, idk if he would say anything.

[Seanzie]

like if I'm a wolf there then I have no idea that nanook has info and thus have no reason to slow down the thread for the reason you're suggesting

No? You mean as wolf if someone comes into the thread asking about your wolf-buddy, your wolf ears don't perk up?

nearly every other post on that page is me and urist talking about doom's claim

It sounds like you were very cognizant of the situation. Why did you want people to take a 3 hour pause given the information in thread?

because I would like other people to be cognizant of the situation presumably

Cognizant of the information that Nook presumably has?

[TonyStarkPrime]

how would i know he should have mech info

[TonyStarkPrime]

like also the thing I did on day 3 to try to slow the game down was play hangman and make it abundantly clear that made claiming was the number one priority which was pro town

[TonyStarkPrime]

like if I'm a wolf there then I have no idea that nanook has info and thus have no reason to slow down the thread for the reason you're suggesting

No? You mean as wolf if someone comes into the thread asking about your wolf-buddy, your wolf ears don't perk up?

nearly every other post on that page is me and urist talking about doom's claim

It sounds like you were very cognizant of the situation. Why did you want people to take a 3 hour pause given the information in thread?

because I would like other people to be cognizant of the situation presumably

Cognizant of the information that Nook presumably has?

no cognizant of how many shots of their abilities there are and whether or not their alignment needs alison dead and maybe who they are

[TonyStarkPrime]

like I'm not entirely convinced that you have actually read the beginning of day 3 because I feel like the context of that post is abundantly clear and it also clearly has nothing to do with me trying to slow the thread down because I think nanook might have mech info

[TonyStarkPrime]

and if I'm a wolf I'd literally have no reason to believe that nanook had mech info but I feel like I already said that

[Seanzie]

like I'm not entirely convinced that you have actually read the beginning of day 3 because I feel like the context of that post is abundantly clear and it also clearly has nothing to do with me trying to slow the thread down because I think nanook might have mech info

Oh I have.

If you truly believe the context is clear, can you please quote the posts that made you think that slowing down for 3 hours was a good idea, instead of hearing out Nook, the person whom you knew should have just used an invention you gave them?

[TonyStarkPrime]

this might be worse than 'signaling'

[TonyStarkPrime]

i mean, we killed New Reno

that's a plus

please tell me you inspected alison last night

Why would I check Alison?

Like Alison is either New Reno or an evil faction lying about it, so either way I need to kill them, seems interesting

this game is actually unplayable oh my god

Why would I check Alison?

chances are very very very high that that's literally the only use for your ability at this point.

Hmm that's kind of fair.

Though I just thought that saving my second use for later game would be better, since Alison is always an enemy of mine no matter the result.

Like for the other factions it's better for me to use it on her

don't you have three

Hmm that's kind of fair.

Though I just thought that saving my second use for later game would be better, since Alison is always an enemy of mine no matter the result.

Like for the other factions it's better for me to use it on her

if alison is the slaver then she isn't your enemy

Though I just thought that saving my second use for later game would be better, since Alison is always an enemy of mine no matter the result.

How's that so?

Slaver isn't the enemy of NCR I believe.

@DaughterOfOmega i'm not going to spell out your role for you but if you could spend the next 48h re-reading your role and thinking about its potential applications that would be great thanks.

Did I miss something and doom claim cop

I thought slaver had to die for town to win

nvm then

can check ali tomorrow

Did I miss something and doom claim cop

she can check whether people are new reno.
would have been great if rej had claimed when she did so that her role could actually be useful and confirm him
alas people would rather just die and lose

I think instead of posting, for three hours today we should all just take a second to read through the setup, figure out our win conditions, figure out our powers, and then come back.

[TonyStarkPrime]

if you ask me why I said three hours then I will tell you I have no idea

[Seanzie]

and if I'm a wolf I'd literally have no reason to believe that nanook had mech info but I feel like I already said that

See, weird thing is though, your actions line up with either possiblity,

1. Maybe wolf!TSP suspected Nook knew something and tried to deflect,

or

2. Maybe TSP didn't have a clue about Nook at this point,

but what your actions don't line up with is

3. Town!TSP gave Nook an invention two nights ago, and thus suspected he may have used it the night before.

[TonyStarkPrime]

like ok jack's in wolf chat, we've played a billion games, he probably said the way to get TSP chopped is to be belligerent and get him flustered, idk.

[Seanzie]

like ok jack's in wolf chat, we've played a billion games, he probably said the way to get TSP chopped is to be belligerent and get him flustered, idk.

Good try, but no. Your story doesn't check out, sorry about it.

[TonyStarkPrime]

you are taking one post where I say that people read the setup and your claim is that if I were town I would instead know that nanook had information and then, instead of encouraging people to read the setup, be completely content with the fact that most people hadn't read the setup and were saying nonsense things

[TonyStarkPrime]

like aside from the morton's fork phrasing of the argument here

[TonyStarkPrime]

also neglecting that other people said what amounts to the same thing on the same page

[Seanzie]

you are taking one post where I say that people read the setup and your claim is that if I were town I would instead know that nanook had information and then, instead of encouraging people to read the setup, be completely content with the fact that most people hadn't read the setup and were saying nonsense things

There is no indication in thread that anyone is having trouble with the setup... except perhaps DoO.

[TonyStarkPrime]

you are taking one post where I say that people read the setup and your claim is that if I were town I would instead know that nanook had information and then, instead of encouraging people to read the setup, be completely content with the fact that most people hadn't read the setup and were saying nonsense things

There is no indication in thread that anyone is having trouble with the setup... except perhaps DoO.

the previous post (literally the exact preceding post) is about rej not understanding, the previous day is about a whole lot of people not understanding.
the end of day 2 is basically just a bunch of misunderstanding about a red check that appears out of nowhere

[TonyStarkPrime]

and like it's obviously a DoO subtweet

[TonyStarkPrime]

subtweet: a post intended to cast shade at a particular person without naming that person. in this case, the post in question is the one that sean asserts I would not make if I were town because it might distract from nanook's info which I don't know exists yet

[TonyStarkPrime]

just in case anyone is not familiar with twitter lingo

[Urist]

The obvious explanation for TSP knowing about Nanook's mech info is that the real scum inventor gave Nanook a check n1.

[TonyStarkPrime]

The obvious explanation for TSP knowing about Nanook's mech info is that the real scum inventor gave Nanook a check n1.

I was trying to figure out why he didn't go with this one

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think the counterfactual is that 1) I would have made sure to extract a hard claim from Nanook on it and 2) Made would have had a claim ready to go because the scum team knew what it was up against and also probably 3) Made claims the invention to not get chopped but that might be too sketchy
but YMMV

[TonyStarkPrime]

vote: Sean. Feel like marmot's work applies. No conspiracy theories necessary to justify this. easy way out.

[TonyStarkPrime]

What do you do IRL TSP? I'm seeing you talk about math problems in your ISO, and earlier you mentioned Kant, so I am curious.

I'm a student. I do a whole lot of things usually, but I go on spring break in two minutes so hopefully I'll have an opportunity to catch up on sleep

played minesweeper for literally my entire spring break

[TonyStarkPrime]

ideal play might actually be to execute alison here. we're at odd numbers so if she has a shot left and decides to shoot a Redding player we lose an execution.
if we think alison might have a shot still, we should execute her now.

The Big Bad Frank Horrigan may also have a shot left, so yeeting Alison would be gambling that Frank does not have a shot left, but Alison does, whereas in all other ways that Frank or Alison could have a shot left, yeeting Alison is suboptimal.

given that chop was not frank /and Sean already indicated in the thread that he knew that chop was not frank/ this logic looks outing

[TonyStarkPrime]

to be clear, knowing that chop was not frank is just a matter of having read the thread, it's not TMI. But Given that chop is not frank and is in fact essentially vanilla, chopping him there is just bad policy and the logic as stated does not hold

[TonyStarkPrime]

FTR, how long were people holding off on yeeting ChopChop because they thought he might be the only BoS member and ergo locktown?

I figured his role would eventually resolve itself, and it finally has.

One issue I have is that he seems to have been extremely skeptical of my slots claim, which would maybe make sense if he was what you were thinking, but that doesn't jive with other things he has said. I am still kind of thinking he is just town, but him trying to get us to vote Alison doesn't sit well with me, especially again, with the fact that he probably isn't what you were thinking.

this is ... /after/ arguing that we shouldn't chop Alison? Pronoun game and all i guess

[TonyStarkPrime]

oh it was about urist

[TonyStarkPrime]

never mind

[TonyStarkPrime]

There's also the issue that Epignosis basically has to kill Marmot (if hubologist) if we never yeet Alison.

If Epi gets a kill at some point, he can just kill Alison himself (why would he kill Marmot over Alison here?). It is possible that some hubologists will die just by NK and such, but if there comes a time where it is very clear that Alison needs to die to stop Epi from scumsiding, then we can yeet her then. It makes no sense to do it until that point though when killing her sooner only limits our options.

I think if Epi was aware of having the ability to kill he would've let us know or used it already. But I'm no mech expert. Or maybe he does, and by voting Alison he can safely kill Chop Chop without worrying much about his own wincon because Alison, as the Slaver, has a vest. She'll just eat up the bullet without worry if she hasn't been attacked yet.

I forgot that Alison has a vest, so I give you that, but Epi gets a new power every night, right? And the power is not disclosed to him until he chooses how to "level up", so he doesn't know what ability he will have tonight.

i wonder if sean caught onto this way faster than he should have. no discussion of epi's role preceded this.

[TonyStarkPrime]

@TonyStarkPrime @Urist @sprityo please claim alignment ASAP.

@Grogu please hardclaim your role ASAP.

Interesting. So we got Jack + Sprityo + Urist (potentially) + Kylemii as BoS.

There's one scum in there Imo. Maaaybe 2 but I doubt.

I'm eager to hear @Grogu's claim.

I think I know who it is. I need Daisy/sprit targets

I ask you marmot to get daisy slot to claim first.
I have a result and know who they targeted but that’s it. I want to hear her claim and result for each night more importantly last night.

Daisy got replaced by Sprityo.

They claimed Brotherhood of Steel as an alignment.

I don’t care about that.

grogu buddy i've been pretty transparent today on who i could be, just give it some thought and all your questions are answered. However I wont tell you any other night actions for the time being

I'm starting to suspect Sprityo the most. Grogu should claim alignment, and then I think Sprityo should claim.

look at that progression

[TonyStarkPrime]

like you tell grogu to hardclaim, grogu claims some semblance of information on sprityo, now boom sprityo is most suspcious no further questions.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Ok, it is clear based on present information that it was to the advantage of the scum team for chop to get chopped on day 6 and grogu to get chopped on day 7. I think this was clear from the get go, but at least the grogu one was a little more up in the air? Maybe there were worlds where you're concerned that sprityo was a wolf, but even then you give him the opportunity to prove himself with the vig shot, idk. The main person pushing those things in the thread was Sean, and the logic he was used to do so is flawed at best. Now, there are problems with the use of present information to judge past circumstances, but it is clear that me and Urist were arguing for the kills that were optimal for the town and that Sean was arguing for the kills that were optimal for the wolves

[Seanzie]

Ok, it is clear based on present information that it was to the advantage of the scum team for chop to get chopped on day 6 and grogu to get chopped on day 7. I think this was clear from the get go, but at least the grogu one was a little more up in the air? Maybe there were worlds where you're concerned that sprityo was a wolf, but even then you give him the opportunity to prove himself with the vig shot, idk. The main person pushing those things in the thread was Sean, and the logic he was used to do so is flawed at best. Now, there are problems with the use of present information to judge past circumstances, but it is clear that me and Urist were arguing for the kills that were optimal for the town and that Sean was arguing for the kills that were optimal for the wolves

Uh... no.

Chopping Alison was a mistake. If we would have lunched Grogu, Spirtyo could have shot someone else in the PoE, possibly Jack, which would have put us at a huge advantage. We lost a mislunch because of this. If you think me trying to lunch Grogu is optimal for the wolves, you are kidding yourself. I'm sure you weren't happy when Grogu got shot, but I bet you were still happy the PoE was big enough to give you a path to F3.

[TonyStarkPrime]

So right now we have:

Jackofhearts2005 - Authur Pendragon of BoS
Long Con - Unspecified vaniila of Wastelander
Marmot - AHS-9 of Hubologists
MartinGG99 - Louis Salvatore of New Reno
Poison / Syn / Seanzie - Sheriff Marion of Redding
Spacedaisy / sprityo - Joshua of BoS
TonyStarkPrime - Unknown
Urist - Vice President Carlson of NCR

Assuming all these are true, this gives us faction sizes of:
Wastelanders - 5
NCR - 3
BoS - 3
Arroyo - 2
Redding - 1
New Reno - 2
Hubologist - 2
JJJ - 1
??? - 1

TSP I think just softclaimed Redding, or if not, he isn't paying attention. If TSP is indeed Redding, then for balance purposes I would say Marmot is definitely clear, and Jack is also probably clear? So in that world, LC is the clear vote, with a very small side of Jack.

If TSP is not redding, then whatever faction he is in I think would need to be examined. LC probably still questionable.

this is the only other thing I have to point out about sean's iso

[Seanzie]

So right now we have:

Jackofhearts2005 - Authur Pendragon of BoS
Long Con - Unspecified vaniila of Wastelander
Marmot - AHS-9 of Hubologists
MartinGG99 - Louis Salvatore of New Reno
Poison / Syn / Seanzie - Sheriff Marion of Redding
Spacedaisy / sprityo - Joshua of BoS
TonyStarkPrime - Unknown
Urist - Vice President Carlson of NCR

Assuming all these are true, this gives us faction sizes of:
Wastelanders - 5
NCR - 3
BoS - 3
Arroyo - 2
Redding - 1
New Reno - 2
Hubologist - 2
JJJ - 1
??? - 1

TSP I think just softclaimed Redding, or if not, he isn't paying attention. If TSP is indeed Redding, then for balance purposes I would say Marmot is definitely clear, and Jack is also probably clear? So in that world, LC is the clear vote, with a very small side of Jack.

If TSP is not redding, then whatever faction he is in I think would need to be examined. LC probably still questionable.

this is the only other thing I have to point out about sean's iso

If TSP is Redding, Jack is probably clear... Jack is not clear, ergo...

[TonyStarkPrime]

ergo your logic sucks