i know, i was thereAlison wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:13 pmOne time I subbed into a game on a whim and scumread only townies and townread mostly mafia. I self hammered on D3 after screaming at town to exe a POE that was entirely filled with townies.Hally wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:58 pm i will say that i subbed into this game completely on a whim without realizing how large it was AND i have another game starting within a week that’s also kind of big
i tend to thrive in smaller games and feel out of my element subbing into such a massive thread so i don’t expect myself to become an obvious villager quickly or nail immediately nail wolves left and right. if it happens it happens but don’t hold your breath
Never sub into games on a whim.
Fargo Mafia [Game Ends]
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Spoiler: show
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I’m not effortclearint you I’m third person clearing you
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I did not argue that Syndicate D1s aren't mostly slankers; I argued that Syndicate D1s are accurate, and not solely based on clout.
Maybe Syndicate likes exeing slankers but is also good at telling which slankers are mafia.
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
the type of gamestate where a lot of people "find" each other immediately and there is a consensus POE that is largely filled with wolfy players with no super obvious suspects - that type of gamestate usually implies a deeper wolf (ie: bread mafia, mountain climbing mafia)Alison wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:05 pmWhat is "this type of gamestate"?staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:54 pm the only thing is that if i accept that the dichotomy of hally/alison is town, then it doesnt leave me with much (or any) room for deepwolves. that bothers me because i am so used to this type of gamestate having multiple buried wolves
even so, that's where my brain is leaning
i am not basing my scumhunting on the idea that there has to be a deepwolf, though
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Does anyone want to hear the most cracked tinfoul theory in the world? It doesn't get more cracked than this unless your name is Justin
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
i’m going to call spf a villager so that if she’s indeed a villager wolves will her N1
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Ted, you've said that:
1) The top wagons are bad, because
2) They're being wagoned for bad reasons, namely:
a) Slanking, and
b) Minor nitpicks that people use as an excuse to avoid feeling bad when they flip town.
I presume you know the stated reasons for exeing the top wagons in this game. Clearly you believe the cases on them to be flawed. For each top wagon, tell me why you think the case on them is bad. Also, who are your preferred wagons?
1) The top wagons are bad, because
2) They're being wagoned for bad reasons, namely:
a) Slanking, and
b) Minor nitpicks that people use as an excuse to avoid feeling bad when they flip town.
I presume you know the stated reasons for exeing the top wagons in this game. Clearly you believe the cases on them to be flawed. For each top wagon, tell me why you think the case on them is bad. Also, who are your preferred wagons?
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Reasonable.staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:16 pmthe type of gamestate where a lot of people "find" each other immediately and there is a consensus POE that is largely filled with wolfy players with no super obvious suspects - that type of gamestate usually implies a deeper wolf (ie: bread mafia, mountain climbing mafia)Alison wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:05 pmWhat is "this type of gamestate"?staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:54 pm the only thing is that if i accept that the dichotomy of hally/alison is town, then it doesnt leave me with much (or any) room for deepwolves. that bothers me because i am so used to this type of gamestate having multiple buried wolves
even so, that's where my brain is leaning
i am not basing my scumhunting on the idea that there has to be a deepwolf, though
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
This does not change my view.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:15 pm I’m not effortclearint you I’m third person clearing you
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
It isn't lazy to chop "slankers" when a wealth of rationale has been provided to support the choice by various different people.
It is lazy to decline to chop "slankers" merely because they are "slankers".
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Gotcha!!! scum
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
that’s the opposite of fortunate
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
i've been asking for this wealth of rationale on at least one wagon for quite a bit and nobody is able to write anything that's concreteJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:26 pmIt isn't lazy to chop "slankers" when a wealth of rationale has been provided to support the choice by various different people.
It is lazy to decline to chop "slankers" merely because they are "slankers".
for example : marmot
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I don't know what to do with this laissez-faire mindset. I don't see this much if ever.Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:09 pmJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:02 pmSo you're not concerned if someone you view as civilian ends up getting chopped (other than yourself)?Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:00 pmJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:56 pmDoes it concern you that you seem to read half the consensus POE pool as civilian?
No, I'd prefer if the consensus was right over myself being right anyway.
I'm playing a game of mafia where I'm surrounded by players of a higher skill level than I. If enough players conclude something that I don't see eye-to-eye with and they're right, then no I'm not concerned.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I don’t know what slanking is. I feel like it may have been asked so perhaps I forgot
Gro-oo-ovy
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
the only reply i got for marmot was from alison stating he had a weird interaction with kza
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
slanking is the opposite of try harding i.e. playing in a manner that indicates low effortfingersplints wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:28 pm I don’t know what slanking is. I feel like it may have been asked so perhaps I forgot
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I think you're good to just ease in at a comfortable rate.
Slinking in and slacking is how I see it.fingersplints wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:28 pm I don’t know what slanking is. I feel like it may have been asked so perhaps I forgot
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
This is just a fancy way of saying "the wagon is probably correct because everyone on it is town".JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:28 pmI don't know what to do with this laissez-faire mindset. I don't see this much if ever.Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:09 pmJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:02 pmSo you're not concerned if someone you view as civilian ends up getting chopped (other than yourself)?Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:00 pmJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:56 pmDoes it concern you that you seem to read half the consensus POE pool as civilian?
No, I'd prefer if the consensus was right over myself being right anyway.
I'm playing a game of mafia where I'm surrounded by players of a higher skill level than I. If enough players conclude something that I don't see eye-to-eye with and they're right, then no I'm not concerned.
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
i struggle to believe that marmot believes the stuff that he has been saying. his reads lack a certain level of conviction that i would expect marmot to have if he was playing from a villager mindset.
marmot constantly floated tutuu as one of his number one suspects throughout the early-game (calling her an openwolf at one point), but when he was asked to go into more detail about his scumread on tutuu, he said this:
i find it difficult to believe that marmot carried this underlying suspicion about tutuu throughout the entirety of the game, and was only able to provide one short sentence explaining his scumread on her when he was prompted to. it concerns me even more that marmot voted for tutuu shortly after making this post. it gives me the impression that marmot does not particularly care about the accuracy of his read on tutuu and is pushing on her moreso for aesthetics sake
there were several moments where i felt that marmot outed reads/thoughts that felt ingenuine. i did not like his opinion about me and tutuu on https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 34#p761634. i did not like the false bravado on https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 75#p762175.
i am not confident about marmot being a wolf, but i find him wolfy
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 0]
I was holding off on talking about this because I wanted tutuu to say more things before I put all of this out there, but that isn't going to happen, so here's what I've got:
I did not like tutuu's progression on me. It felt false.
Here's a couple early posts where tutuu kind of engages in some way with something adjacent to a read on me. The first appears to be a non-serious suggestion that I'm mafia which would not be a concern if not for the rest of the progression. The second is a playful non-answer to a Super Serious Question. But then we get into the main stuff.
I felt fine about this exchange at the time, but given the way things progressed/ended from tutuu, I am more skeptical of it.
Tutuu had been throwing town reads out fairly liberally this game. I am not entitled to a town read, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest I've done enough to be accepted as town by most players. As evidence, I submit that I've been accepted as town by most players. Tutuu resisted this generally, but she never actually expressed suspicion of me. She only ever resisted the movement of town-reading me. There was never a clear read:
Tutuu never claimed to suspect me. Tutuu suggested I had not done enough to earn a town read, but did not offer any sort of remotely substantial comment on me beyond that. There was little to no engagement with the content of my posts.
She then voted for me. When pressed to talk about it, she said it was because a vote for me was "interesting" and could elicit reactions. Tutuu did nothing to elicit reactions. Tutuu did nothing to make a vote for me interesting. I am widely town read, so the range of events that could transpire from an unsubstantiated vote on me Day 1 is fairly limited. And, this is the kicker for me, when I gave her an avenue to make this vote interesting by talking about it, she was unable or unwilling to do so. And then she was gone.
I don't have a clear sense of what the agenda is here, but I have been struggling to believe any of the things tutuu said about me, and never got the sense that she was actually interested in reading me.
I did not like tutuu's progression on me. It felt false.
Spoiler: show
Spoiler: show
Tutuu had been throwing town reads out fairly liberally this game. I am not entitled to a town read, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest I've done enough to be accepted as town by most players. As evidence, I submit that I've been accepted as town by most players. Tutuu resisted this generally, but she never actually expressed suspicion of me. She only ever resisted the movement of town-reading me. There was never a clear read:
But then she voted for me. And I tried to get her to talk about it. She wouldn't:
Spoiler: show
She then voted for me. When pressed to talk about it, she said it was because a vote for me was "interesting" and could elicit reactions. Tutuu did nothing to elicit reactions. Tutuu did nothing to make a vote for me interesting. I am widely town read, so the range of events that could transpire from an unsubstantiated vote on me Day 1 is fairly limited. And, this is the kicker for me, when I gave her an avenue to make this vote interesting by talking about it, she was unable or unwilling to do so. And then she was gone.
I don't have a clear sense of what the agenda is here, but I have been struggling to believe any of the things tutuu said about me, and never got the sense that she was actually interested in reading me.
My banners:
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
nutella once actually took one of my memes personally: she scumread me because she thought I was a humorless robot as town who only cracks jokes to pocket people. I was town. Good times.
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I agree with Marmot on this. Idc if one of my town reads gets chopped with good reason.Alison wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:30 pmThis is just a fancy way of saying "the wagon is probably correct because everyone on it is town".JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:28 pmI don't know what to do with this laissez-faire mindset. I don't see this much if ever.Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:09 pmJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:02 pmSo you're not concerned if someone you view as civilian ends up getting chopped (other than yourself)?Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:00 pmJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:56 pmDoes it concern you that you seem to read half the consensus POE pool as civilian?
No, I'd prefer if the consensus was right over myself being right anyway.
I'm playing a game of mafia where I'm surrounded by players of a higher skill level than I. If enough players conclude something that I don't see eye-to-eye with and they're right, then no I'm not concerned.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
thanks, this is at the very least reasonable and it's not based on slank!staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:31 pmi struggle to believe that marmot believes the stuff that he has been saying. his reads lack a certain level of conviction that i would expect marmot to have if he was playing from a villager mindset.
marmot constantly floated tutuu as one of his number one suspects throughout the early-game (calling her an openwolf at one point), but when he was asked to go into more detail about his scumread on tutuu, he said this:
i find it difficult to believe that marmot carried this underlying suspicion about tutuu throughout the entirety of the game, and was only able to provide one short sentence explaining his scumread on her when he was prompted to. it concerns me even more that marmot voted for tutuu shortly after making this post. it gives me the impression that marmot does not particularly care about the accuracy of his read on tutuu and is pushing on her moreso for aesthetics sake
there were several moments where i felt that marmot outed reads/thoughts that felt ingenuine. i did not like his opinion about me and tutuu on https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 34#p761634. i did not like the false bravado on https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 75#p762175.
i am not confident about marmot being a wolf, but i find him wolfy
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Rationale external to Marmot --> a pile of people have seemed town, removing them from candidacy
Rationale relating directly to Marmot --> degree of seriousness of his play parallels amount of suspicion presently heaped upon him; currently showing zero concern for the game state despite reading a bunch of POE'd players as town; griping with my generic cheerleader post as if it's remarkable; contributed to an environment of chaos with one of his goofy self-votes (i.e. eagerly participating in a state that I view as anti-town while not eagerly participating so much when the thread is healthier); beefing with SPF over adverbs as if Marmot is an adverb person
Probably not comprehensive
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
But you're not willing to listen to town reads on Oddmerta from the same people potentially chopping a town read?
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Re: Marmot, I've given you my two cents on what makes Marmot scummy. I've also said that even though Marmot is wolfy I am putting him in the upper POE precisely because I can't find a compelling concrete reason to exe him. I am voting people who I have strong reasons to scumread.
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I had the same thought about you earlier, which is why I started out with easy townreads on Jay and Mac but not you, and reaction tested you at first. I only started reading you town a little bit later into the game after you got more fully into your typical town mode, plus you had the vote of confidence from Jay.
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
@TonyStarkPrime
Who are you talking about here?
You also phrase this question like it's a no-brainer. I'm braining it; what does it mean?
Then this:
Who are you talking about here?
Are you talking about Michelle? Did you mean, 'Why does tsp want to chop someone half a dozen people are telling him is confirmed town'?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:24 pm “Why doesn’t tsp want to chop someone half a dozen people are telling him is confirmed town I wonder”
You also phrase this question like it's a no-brainer. I'm braining it; what does it mean?
Then this:
I don't think you threw a dart at a dartboard at all. I think you either think, 'her meta's off' is enough of a reason to think she's scum, or you wanted to make a provocative read/vote.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:40 pm I thought Michelle was a wolf because when Michelle’s town I expect higher post counts and one or two off the wall weird interactions early. It’s not like I just threw a dart at a dartboard
Literally just some fucking guy.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
thanks x2 ; i believe the strongest reason is the showing zero concern with a PoE that's upside down from thread consensusJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:34 pmRationale external to Marmot --> a pile of people have seemed town, removing them from candidacy
Rationale relating directly to Marmot --> degree of seriousness of his play parallels amount of suspicion presently heaped upon him; currently showing zero concern for the game state despite reading a bunch of POE'd players as town; griping with my generic cheerleader post as if it's remarkable; contributed to an environment of chaos with one of his goofy self-votes (i.e. eagerly participating in a state that I view as anti-town while not eagerly participating so much when the thread is healthier); beefing with SPF over adverbs as if Marmot is an adverb person
Probably not comprehensive
do you think wolf!marmot is likely to go for the "post the weakest reasons in order to go at people that are active and considered town"?
i know it seems like a loaded question, but realistically, that's what I feel like he's done
do you think it's a fake approach designed...to get town read on derpiness?
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
derpiness is probably not the word, you get what i mean though
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I'm mostly referring to Hally making that post while I was compiling my big post about why tutuu's progression on me was bogus.Alison wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:37 pmI had the same thought about you earlier, which is why I started out with easy townreads on Jay and Mac but not you, and reaction tested you at first. I only started reading you town a little bit later into the game after you got more fully into your typical town mode, plus you had the vote of confidence from Jay.
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- Strawhenge
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Isn't @Oddmerta familiar with AL_sama from somewhere that isn't the Syndicate? If so, I'd love to hear what they think of AL_sama in this game. Give us a little context.
Literally just some fucking guy.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
If Marmot is wolf posting weaksauce reasons to scumread people, it's because his teammates are all in the POE. Hence he has to find a reason to push someone outside the POE. But they're all so townie, which is why they're not in the POE. Hence he has to make something up. When you try to force a scumread on someone by making random shit up you get bad reasons.
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I think even asking that question is already digging too deep into human nature to be reliable for anything, if I am honest with you. It's just too specific a context to warrant the WIFOM questions, and it presumes too much about what's happening in his brain.tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:37 pm thanks x2 ; i believe the strongest reason is the showing zero concern with a PoE that's upside down from thread consensus
do you think wolf!marmot is likely to go for the "post the weakest reasons in order to go at people that are active and considered town"?
i know it seems like a loaded question, but realistically, that's what I feel like he's done
do you think it's a fake approach designed...to get town read on derpiness?
SPF, for example, has been the subject of some degree of suspicion -- she isn't in a completely comfortable or untouchable position. So she makes for a generic target for someone looking for someone to gripe about, especially someone not on one's own mafia team. Marmot has known Epignosis, Lord of the Adverbs, for many years. SPF tends to write a lot of adverbs. Boom, there's poop to hurl.
It doesn't have to be mafia stuff, but I have no trouble seeing it that way.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
It's kind of like how Mac (correctly) suspected me in Bread Mafia because I had a weak reason to townread someone. I had a weak reason because I was doing it specifically to pocket nanook (who I thought would townread that person as well and wanted to force a mind meld with him) and thus made up something I would normally not consider as town.
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
Especially on Oddmerta. If I vote there and he doesn't get lynched it's not the end of the world.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:35 pmBut you're not willing to listen to town reads on Oddmerta from the same people potentially chopping a town read?
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
maybe i'm reaching, that's fairJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:40 pmI think even asking that question is already digging too deep into human nature to be reliable for anything, if I am honest with you. It's just too specific a context to warrant the WIFOM questions, and it presumes too much about what's happening in his brain.tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:37 pm thanks x2 ; i believe the strongest reason is the showing zero concern with a PoE that's upside down from thread consensus
do you think wolf!marmot is likely to go for the "post the weakest reasons in order to go at people that are active and considered town"?
i know it seems like a loaded question, but realistically, that's what I feel like he's done
do you think it's a fake approach designed...to get town read on derpiness?
SPF, for example, has been the subject of some degree of suspicion -- she isn't in a completely comfortable or untouchable position. So she makes for a generic target for someone looking for someone to gripe about, especially someone not on one's own mafia team. Marmot has known Epignosis, Lord of the Adverbs, for many years. SPF tends to write a lot of adverbs. Boom, there's poop to hurl.
It doesn't have to be mafia stuff, but I have no trouble seeing it that way.
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Re: Fargo Mafia [DAY 1]
I think ted backing down on his Marmot read is mildly townie. He would probably have stuck to it more insistently if he was scum.
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.