Beelzebub The Benign scum win

[Urist]

Also I checked and the number is closer to like 20 if you remove all the places where he is quoting someone else and all the nested quote blocks and whatnot.

[Urist]

Barring any major developments, it makes the most sense to solve Esooa's slot.

I still don't understand this. Why do we have to flip esooa? I'm aware that she voted for Marmot yesterday but she's not the only one who did that.

Go thru HK's ISO. Esooa pops up like 30 times, far more than any other player. They just reek of scum buds, look for yourself

I don't even think it's true that she's mentioned more than any other player in hk's iso. Did you actually check that?

[falcon45ca]

Barring any major developments, it makes the most sense to solve Esooa's slot.

I still don't understand this. Why do we have to flip esooa? I'm aware that she voted for Marmot yesterday but she's not the only one who did that.

Go thru HK's ISO. Esooa pops up like 30 times, far more than any other player. They just reek of scum buds, look for yourself

I don't even think it's true that she's mentioned more than any other player in hk's iso. Did you actually check that?

I checked myself, you, gav, samu, bk, marmot

[Gavial]

Barring any major developments, it makes the most sense to solve Esooa's slot.

I still don't understand this. Why do we have to flip esooa? I'm aware that she voted for Marmot yesterday but she's not the only one who did that.

Go thru HK's ISO. Esooa pops up like 30 times, far more than any other player. They just reek of scum buds, look for yourself

Pretty sure that means esooa is actually town

Didn’t @falcon45ca say before me only having 6 posts mentioning HK is bad saying having low amount of mentions scum indicative but now he is saying having high amount of mentions scum indicative.

[Urist]

Barring any major developments, it makes the most sense to solve Esooa's slot.

I still don't understand this. Why do we have to flip esooa? I'm aware that she voted for Marmot yesterday but she's not the only one who did that.

Go thru HK's ISO. Esooa pops up like 30 times, far more than any other player. They just reek of scum buds, look for yourself

I don't even think it's true that she's mentioned more than any other player in hk's iso. Did you actually check that?

I checked myself, you, gav, samu, bk, marmot

well you fucked up because there are 38 for gavial and 37 for seanzie

[falcon45ca]

Barring any major developments, it makes the most sense to solve Esooa's slot.

I still don't understand this. Why do we have to flip esooa? I'm aware that she voted for Marmot yesterday but she's not the only one who did that.

Go thru HK's ISO. Esooa pops up like 30 times, far more than any other player. They just reek of scum buds, look for yourself

I don't even think it's true that she's mentioned more than any other player in hk's iso. Did you actually check that?

I checked myself, you, gav, samu, bk, marmot

well you fucked up because there are 38 for gavial and 37 for seanzie

I probably misspelt their names

[Urist]

Barring any major developments, it makes the most sense to solve Esooa's slot.

I still don't understand this. Why do we have to flip esooa? I'm aware that she voted for Marmot yesterday but she's not the only one who did that.

Go thru HK's ISO. Esooa pops up like 30 times, far more than any other player. They just reek of scum buds, look for yourself

I don't even think it's true that she's mentioned more than any other player in hk's iso. Did you actually check that?

I checked myself, you, gav, samu, bk, marmot

well you fucked up because there are 38 for gavial and 37 for seanzie

I probably misspelt their names

the search is broken and doesn't work properly if you try to do it more than once without re-isoing the player

[falcon45ca]

I still don't understand this. Why do we have to flip esooa? I'm aware that she voted for Marmot yesterday but she's not the only one who did that.

Go thru HK's ISO. Esooa pops up like 30 times, far more than any other player. They just reek of scum buds, look for yourself

I don't even think it's true that she's mentioned more than any other player in hk's iso. Did you actually check that?

I checked myself, you, gav, samu, bk, marmot

well you fucked up because there are 38 for gavial and 37 for seanzie

I probably misspelt their names

the search is broken and doesn't work properly if you try to do it more than once without re-isoing the player

Oh shit, well that makes sense. My bad.

[Urist]

Barring any major developments, it makes the most sense to solve Esooa's slot.

I still don't understand this. Why do we have to flip esooa? I'm aware that she voted for Marmot yesterday but she's not the only one who did that.

Go thru HK's ISO. Esooa pops up like 30 times, far more than any other player. They just reek of scum buds, look for yourself

soooo about this then

[falcon45ca]

Barring any major developments, it makes the most sense to solve Esooa's slot.

I still don't understand this. Why do we have to flip esooa? I'm aware that she voted for Marmot yesterday but she's not the only one who did that.

Go thru HK's ISO. Esooa pops up like 30 times, far more than any other player. They just reek of scum buds, look for yourself

soooo about this then

Well even outside of name pop ups, their interactions just look wolfy to me. Have you looked at them? What do you think?

[TonyStarkPrime]

cite your sources

[TonyStarkPrime]

on a large scale the interactions look favorable for esooa and on a small scale from HK's iso they look ~fine~

[DaughterOfOmega]

Reading why people want to kill Esooa makes me think they are bullshitting. Those aren't real reasons someone would be mafia.

Though I have no reason looking at her game to call her town.

I think I'm going to reread some after class. And choose my best mafia read instead of reading bad opinions

[Urist]

Barring any major developments, it makes the most sense to solve Esooa's slot.

I still don't understand this. Why do we have to flip esooa? I'm aware that she voted for Marmot yesterday but she's not the only one who did that.

Go thru HK's ISO. Esooa pops up like 30 times, far more than any other player. They just reek of scum buds, look for yourself

soooo about this then

Well even outside of name pop ups, their interactions just look wolfy to me. Have you looked at them? What do you think?

i just skimmed through it and nothing stands out. hk called esooa lock town for defending him but that doesn't mean much.

[Sloonei]

I didn't realize I was subbing into a game with a mafia member already in the bag. Sweet. I'll just do things this way then:

Spoiler: show

Did y'all know that Beelzebub is one of the 7 Princes of Hell?

Did you know that Beelzebubba is one of the greatest punk rock albums of all time?

The other 6 Princes of Hell are Satan, Lucifer, Leviathon, Mammon, Belphegor & Asmodeus

Mammon also being often called the Son of Satan. Asmodeus was the name of the giant adder in the novel Redwall.

Two off-topic posts in an exchange with falcon to start the game. I'm inclined to say it means nothing.

Spoiler: show

I think I'm town which is a little disappointing

your avi scares me. what do you mean you think you're town?

Awkward initial interaction with esooa. HK has a direct question for Esooa RE: a thing she said, but has to soften with an empty comment about her avatar first. Two totally separate thoughts crammed up against each other.

Spoiler: show

@Alison I'll take a tarot read if you wanna do one

yeah ok I was asking for that wasn't I

hollowkatt asked for a broken image?

Spoiler: show

If this is scum theatre this is the best I’ve ever seen.

Spoiler: show

That hasn’t been done by me.

I find this hard to believe. I don't think there was anything special about Marmot's interaction with me. I think you are just pulling up random posts and slapping some semi-defensible comment on them to look solvey.

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

funny, I was gonna call him town lol

hollowkatt was gonna call Gavial town. For observing the possibility of scum theater. Idk. This might mean something. It might mean nothing.
I am Alison, so hooray I don't need to read that half of the interaction. Hollowkatt is publicly disagreed with her, so there's that to be mindful of.

Spoiler: show

I think Samusamu is townie in ways that make him appear to be an easy push for mafia. I call this the Michelle-Timsup2nothin archetype. Of the people pushing him I find falcon's push most townie because it seems motivated by a mixture of paranoia and townie OMGUS. Urist and Gavial piling on are things that I am not a fan of at all.

not sure I'd lump Tim into that archetype. He's way more feisty than Michelle. Maybe call it the Michelle-Wisdom archetype and I'm in.
yes that means I think samusamu might be town. I'm not getting the weirdness from that conversation others are

hollowkatt nitpicks some non-game chatter from Alison instead of diving right into the samu read. HK's read eventually comes out as "I think samu might be town", which is not the most resounding confidence you'll ever see. Is that because hollowkatt is uncomfortable talking about a teammate, or are is it just stilted because hk is coming from an informed position in general? I'll be keeping an eye on samu in here, I guess.

Spoiler: show

Urist looks pretty oppurtunistuc pouncing on Samu's and my interaction, calls us a w/w team before announcing he won't be back for awhile.


How do others see that?

somewhere between weak and lame

Townie points for Urist. This is harsher shade than I would expect a teammate to toss around so early in the game.

Spoiler: show

why not take votes seriously though?

I mean, votes should always be considered for their meaning. I think the word "serious" isn't quite right. Samu's vote didn't look at all like it was meant to contribute to a TK of Falcon, and rarely are early D1 votes meant in that way. Instead they are more used to generate content and reactions. Samu naked voted Falcon, and then when pressed, asked Falcon what he thinks of that. That vote looks "non-serious" to be in the sense that I don't really think Samu was thinking about TKing Falcon there. If Samu is town, it was a reaction test, and if he is scum, I don't think he would cast a vote meant to stay there this early in D1.

Doing reaction tests like that IMO is >rand town, and Falcon taking the vote seriously enough to OMGUS Samu I think is >rand scum.

basically there's a difference between "I intend to kill you with this vote" and "I wonder what happens if I vote you here". There's also "this vote is literally for laughs" but that category is generally really obvs.

Can see how ppl are getting to wolfy falcon off of that.

I feel I shuold note here that I have read nothing and am not looking at these posts in the larger context of the thread. But looking at this post in a vacuum: seanzie is town, falcon is mafia. Seanzie's response to a general gripe from hollowkatt looks very sincere, like he's trying to correct what he sees as a misconception. The line about falcon feels tacked on and timid.

Spoiler: show

If this is scum theatre this is the best I’ve ever seen.

Spoiler: show

That hasn’t been done by me.

I find this hard to believe. I don't think there was anything special about Marmot's interaction with me. I think you are just pulling up random posts and slapping some semi-defensible comment on them to look solvey.

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

funny, I was gonna call him town lol

I think Samusamu is townie in ways that make him appear to be an easy push for mafia. I call this the Michelle-Timsup2nothin archetype. Of the people pushing him I find falcon's push most townie because it seems motivated by a mixture of paranoia and townie OMGUS. Urist and Gavial piling on are things that I am not a fan of at all.

not sure I'd lump Tim into that archetype. He's way more feisty than Michelle. Maybe call it the Michelle-Wisdom archetype and I'm in.
yes that means I think samusamu might be town. I'm not getting the weirdness from that conversation others are

What makes you TR me?
Also, By “weirdness” I’m assuming your not seeing the lack of genuineness that I see.
Alright, then do you just think Samu might be town for the same reason Alison has given “Easy ML” or do you have your own take regarding Samu?

I like your tone. Sure, wolves can fake tone, you might even be good at that I dunno, but I like it. I also like the way you're approaching things and leaving your thoughts on the table.

By weirdness I mean the clustery conversation he was a part of. I didn't read him as coming off weird or disingenuous.
my samu take is that I don't think he's doing/saying wolfy things. Has nothing to do with him being ML bait like Alison would say.

Light townie points for Gavial here. There's nothing here that can't possibly be a teammate interaction, but I feel his tone is genuinely inquisitive, and hk's response is wordy enough to look like a "real" answer, as opposed to a staged and obligatory response to a teammate.

Spoiler: show

Gavial is doing way too much right now. extreme wolf vibes

why?

Generic "why" about a gavial scum read from Bo. Okay.

Spoiler: show

Gavial is doing way too much right now. extreme wolf vibes

His wall posts look trippy on mushrooms right now

they look like wall posts on edibles.

This post does not need to exist. It is a barely-relevant observation made by falcon. Hollowkatt literally just rewords the comment. Why on earth does this exist?

Spoiler: show

Gavial is doing way too much right now. extreme wolf vibes

why?

They're not sitting right with me. It feels like he's making something out of nothing.

Gavial is doing way too much right now. extreme wolf vibes

I do not feel extreme wolf vibes from Gavial.

See above for my reasoning.

Gavial is doing way too much right now. extreme wolf vibes

His wall posts look trippy on mushrooms right now

They confused me more than anyhting.

can you give an example or two of where he's trying to make something out of nothing? I'm seeing a lot of stream of consciousness stuff, not really seeing manufacturing stuff

hollowkatt is engaging heavily with the gavial suspicion. Could be a good sign for Gavial. There's an outside chance this is cooperative theater with Bo, but I don't think so. I think it looks like a mafiakatt trying to get a civilian Bo to do the legwork on a civilian chop.

Spoiler: show

ok thanks. I can see how he gets to "one of falcon, seanzie, samusamu is a wolf". Seems like that's a fairly reasonable stance to take. Not thrilled with his "don't want to hit wrong" take tho, it's still early.
His second post you quote is meh to me. Can grok why you don't like it.
Third post is a throw-away in my book.

I guess I get what concerns you, so thanks, I appreciate it.

I would have voted for hollowkatt based off of this post. If any post ever gave off the vibes of talking at one's feet and shrugging one's shoulders, it's this one. Bo is town off of this, and I'll take that to the bank. hollowkatt appears to have no idea how to respond to this case naturally.
I am less sure what it says about Gavial now. The awkwardness of the response could be indicative of a Gavial/hollowkatt partnership, wherein HK regrets pushing so hard and getting an actual substantive case on their partner and now needs to find a way out of it. Or it could be that hollowkatt is trying to position themself in such a way that they can vote for Gavial if needed, but does not want to appear overly-eager in doing so. Gun to my head, I'm saying it's the latter.

Spoiler: show

ok thanks. I can see how he gets to "one of falcon, seanzie, samusamu is a wolf". Seems like that's a fairly reasonable stance to take. Not thrilled with his "don't want to hit wrong" take tho, it's still early.
His second post you quote is meh to me. Can grok why you don't like it.
Third post is a throw-away in my book.

I guess I get what concerns you, so thanks, I appreciate it.

Yeah, but here's the thing...he's called out D1 voting and early play already as not being something to build legit reads on, right?


So why is he taking these early interactions so seriously himself and framing it "1 of these 3 is Maf"? Seems contradictory to his earlier stance, no?


His "don't wanna hit wrong" is total bullshit, that is not a townie mindset at all.


Pffft, real town obviously never wanna hit wrong, but its D1! Nobody is close to getting hit yet, and even if we were...its D1, hitting wrong happens.


He def seems a flame fanner fo sho.

fuck it I'm in [VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

Okay Gavial town. Falcon TBD, still. I could see a world where this is a teammate goading another into voting for a vulnerable townie. But... as I type that sentence, I'm not sure that ever actually happens. Maybe falcon town too. I still don't know.

Spoiler: show

Idk I'm just shocked someone is already talking w/w about two people having a quick interaction.

I’m just saying don’t rule it out.
The person who said exact they think it’s w/w was Urist.
But I suppose I can’t blame yeah as you could have missed that post considering Urist only has a grand total of 2 posts.

odds on urist wolf if either of those two flip town?

I'm not sure I understand what's happening here, but Urist is still town.

Spoiler: show

I was gonna say there could be no wolves at all and they are just lying in the back but then I realize that TSP/Urist/Doom/Jessie as the team is kinda dumb.

why's that?

like say you've got a chunk of townies having at it with each other, why step in the middle of that? Why not rumble in later and go "eh, this all looks dumb/theater/performative" and push based on that?

I am about ready to lock Gavial in as town now too.

Spoiler: show

so who are wolves

ur face

Silly banter with TSP. Noted.

Spoiler: show

hk your pfp is my phone background for approximately 16 weeks every year

attention everyone: TSP gets a free pass today

Spoiler: show

idk if it's just me but there's way too many big quote chains and discussions only pertinent to the couple people involved

Why do you town read Samu?

because he made like ten posts in a row about that one guy everyone is talking about and he has no reason to do that as mafia

That’s ugh....
Dumb?

Anyone can make a post about anything.
It ain’t AI mate.

but I'm right

anything else that makes you like him cause that is kinda weaksauce

This can be the beginnings of a teammate interaction with Esooa.

Spoiler: show

The only powerwolfing Gavial is doing is effectively making me want to play less

What is Gavial doing? There have been a few posts of his that have irked me a bit, but you seem to be bothered to a pretty big degree and I don't understand why.

It's the annoying attitude, behind someone who is spam posting the thread with a read on me. I feel forced to interact with him, and then during the times he has brought me up it comes with some "I know better than you" tone. I just wish people wouldn't act so confident and annoying at the same time. I'm only talking about it because he's literally been 95% of the game recently

straight up: do you wolf read Gavial? if you do, why?
like ok, clearly he wolf reads you, and that seems to bother you, I guess? It sounds to me like the crux of the reason you wolf read him is because he's loud and he wolf reads you and he's confident in what he's posting, right? Or am I missing something else?

This does not feel like a teammate interaction with DaughterOfOmega. Hollowkatt's tone is very blunt, getting down to business and forcing a response out of DoOm. The way it's framed makes me think hollowkatt is hoping this can snowball into a suspicion.

Spoiler: show

The only powerwolfing Gavial is doing is effectively making me want to play less

What is Gavial doing? There have been a few posts of his that have irked me a bit, but you seem to be bothered to a pretty big degree and I don't understand why.

It's the annoying attitude, behind someone who is spam posting the thread with a read on me. I feel forced to interact with him, and then during the times he has brought me up it comes with some "I know better than you" tone. I just wish people wouldn't act so confident and annoying at the same time. I'm only talking about it because he's literally been 95% of the game recently

straight up: do you wolf read Gavial? if you do, why?
like ok, clearly he wolf reads you, and that seems to bother you, I guess? It sounds to me like the crux of the reason you wolf read him is because he's loud and he wolf reads you and he's confident in what he's posting, right? Or am I missing something else?

See this is where you are missing things. If I thought someone was mafia, I have no reason to be bothered with their behavior, I get to just vote them and ignore their posts.

The issue is I clearly don't know. I used to be very annoying and confident as a town player, and he reminds me a lot of that. These kind of players are usually doing these things as town, so I am forced to interact with a likely town member who wants to push me in the dumbest way possible.

I would have figured you were smart enough to realize this without asking if I think he is mafia.

going to ignore the snark at the end and just focus on your answer.
You town read Gavial then, is your answer. You're annoyed with him then b/c you think he's town and you think he's anti-town with the way he's making pushes/engaging with others/interacting with the thread. Would that be accurate?

It reads to me that you're offended that he wolf reads you, which is just like super weird to me. Instead of engaging with him and finding out why he's wolf reading you and seeing if you and him can work something out you're kinda snippy about him and vagueposting about how much fun you're not having.

am I wrong?

Okay yeah Doomtown.
Extended exchanges with DoOm and Gavial that I'm not gonna waste time on because they are both town.

Spoiler: show

If you are being serious, work on your ability to analyze the game

Is this directed at anyone in particular or do you just kinda think everyone who isn't you is shite?

I can't speak for DoO, but I assume it's the latter.
I do think that's more of a townie mindset for her though. I don't disagree with the points you're making about her *in general*, but I don't think they apply to DoO.

tbh I want to wolf read her for it. mostly b/c I've done what she's doing as wolf, and I've had it done to me. It's kinda effective b/c as long as you're not crossing the line from "annoyed and responding with snark and sarcasm" into "actually insulting people" it gets people who sus you to back off.

Outside of her interactions with me/Gavial what's your take on DoO? I know my read on her is currently clouded by my recent interactions.

You "want" to wolf read her? Are you wolf reading her, or no?

I wolf read AtE

I'll call seanzie town too. This is a solid nitpick, and hollowkatt's response looks a bit uneasy.

Spoiler: show

Seanzie & Gavial are top scum for me.


[VOTE: VOTE SEANZIE] aubergine

spicy
why are they top scum?

Falcon continues to be a big juicy Maybe.

Spoiler: show

I will proceed by not voting myself because this game sucks

lock town never rescinding

Does this post exist if Esooa and hollowkatt are partners? Idk. I'm gonna go ahead and remind myself that I jotted down a note that "this could be the beginnings of a teammate interaction with Esooa" a few posts ago, but then there was no follow-up to that, which makes me squint my eyes and/or furrow my brow.

Spoiler: show

yeah yeah voted in the poll.
@Esooa why are you self-voting and how did I miss that?

Marmot had (jokingly) self-voted a few minutes prior and HK responded as if they were obligated to vote for him in response. Then hollowkatt notices Esooa has self-voted and extends to her the good grace of asking for an explanation.

Spoiler: show

yeah yeah voted in the poll.
@Esooa why are you self-voting and how did I miss that?

because I lied when I said I will proceed to not vote myself

all you need now is some ate and you can complete the trifecta of bad! Also I'm voting you now

Meh. This is stilted and not serious and there continues to be no reason Esooa cannot be hollowkatt's teammate.

Spoiler: show

where I'm at:
town
Gavail
Marmot
Sam

leans town
Doom
Esooa

everyone else is some flavor of POE or another, or I'm not paying attention

If we're following the rule that a member of the mafia team will always include at least one teammate in their lists, then I'm picking Esooa here. Marmot has already flipped. DaughterOfOmega and Gavial both look hella town in this ISO. Samu has looked vaguely-but-less-definitively town. Esooa has been iffy at best throughout.

Spoiler: show

Seanzie & Gavial are top scum for me.


[VOTE: VOTE SEANZIE] aubergine

Care to elaborate?

I found his approach to Samu's & I the most opphrtunistic

What did you find opportunistic about it? And does that mean you town read Samu then?

This could be another example of a mafioso trying to get a civilian do the the heavy lifting on justifying a suspicion. Or it could be a phony interaction with a teammate (falcon). I continue to DK.

Spoiler: show

anyways I'm gay

we know... also ur a wolf

Yuck. I might just believe this post.

Spoiler: show

Alison - Null
Doom - Null
Esooa - Town
Falcon - Scum
Gavial - Scum
Hollowkatt - Town
JessieKruger - Null
Long Con - Null
Marmot - Mixed feelings
Samusamu - Town
Seanzie - Town
Tsp - Null
Urist - Town

Why so many nulls?

and also how are you getting to scum on Gavial? / town on Seanzie?

Why is seanzie the lead wagon?

cause he's kinda scummy

These three posts in quick succession make me feel good about Bo. These are all relatively small moments, and I feel like the only way hollowkatt/bo are teammates is if they felt like they needed to interact more in the thread, so HK just decided to spam responses to Bo. I don't think that's what's happening. Particularly because it's not as if these two haven't interacted already. Bo's name hasn't been as present as others, but I remember it coming up a bit fairly early on. And also, these interactions do not have a clear direction. I think when teammates interact, they tend to do so with purpose. These are all posts where HK is just sort of tapping Bo on the shoulder. The last one especially feels like a non-teammate response: If Teammate A asks why a player is the top wagon, I don't think Teammate B response with such a nothing, unserious response. I think hollowkatt would be more likely to give a more substantive response, or just not respond at all.

Spoiler: show

Pretty sure Hollowkatt/Esooa is a thing, and Hollowkatt just slipped. They probably planned to flip to me in wolf chat, and Hollowkatt forgot what order it went in.

yeah, we had a big theater thing cooked up in wolf chat and then oops, hk made a boo boo...

If I haven't already said this, Seanzie is lock town. Esooa can still be mafia.

Spoiler: show

Fairly confident their the designated ML right now

you think Falcon is a better hit than Seanz then? Sell me on why Falcon

Maybe this could finally be indicative of a town falcon. Hollowkatt appears to be genuinely opening the door to voting for Falcon if this seanzie thing falters.
I'll call Bo town for this

Spoiler: show

Well the lc wagon is still in offer.

I have bad feelings about this offer

Hm. Samu town, maybe. Do teammates disagree like this about wagons so close to the deadline? I don't think so. And this is the first time I've seen Long Con get any sort of mention in HK's ISO. So there's that.

Spoiler: show

hk, urist, samu and I can agree on a wagon to put over hk

I have few preferences

give your names

Obvs I think seanzie. I'm leery of the LC offer from Samu b/c I don't have a particularly strong read on either of them in either direction. You're off the table. I still like Marmot as town even though I think his push on me is bad and based in bad reads/information

Yeah Samu town. LC maybe mafia.

Nothing that happens after this point changes my feelings about anyone.

-----------

tl;dr - Esooa and Long Con potential suspects.
Falcon gets a lot of shrugs, but with a gun to my head I would lean town.

Seanzie, urist, samu, Bo, Gavial, DaughterOfOmega are all firm town reads from this. Maybe someone else that I'm for.

And that leaves TSP as the only player I haven't named yet!

Seanzie
Gavial
DaughterOfOmega
Urist
Samu
BoKnows
Falcon
TonyStarkPrime
Long Con
Esooa

[falcon45ca]

Esooa like lock town

Esooa like lock town

Why is esooa locktown?

Even if you're town, someone hard-defending you in this situation I don't believe is locktown.

hk and esooa are just outed scum at this point.

Esooa like lock town

why?

If she's a wolf she doesn't argue vehemently to not chop me. She also doesn't keep working this close to the end of the day and she doesn't draw attention to herself like she's been doing with the other pushes she's doing

That seemed like a blatant pocket attempt to me.

nah, HK pocketing Esooa looks way different lol

hk and esooa are just outed scum at this point.

this is like the epitome of wrongo dongo lol

Yeah, look at how HK tries to deflect away from being outed scum with Esooa. Her slot needs to be solved

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine for emphasis.

Next order of business will be to ISO those individual players, but that's not happening right now.

[TonyStarkPrime]

fine if sloonei says

[TonyStarkPrime]

vote sloonei

[TonyStarkPrime]

no

[TonyStarkPrime]

hmm

[BoKnows]

hello mr stark

[BoKnows]

where's your head at?

[falcon45ca]

I didn't realize I was subbing into a game with a mafia member already in the bag. Sweet. I'll just do things this way then:

Spoiler: show

Did y'all know that Beelzebub is one of the 7 Princes of Hell?

Did you know that Beelzebubba is one of the greatest punk rock albums of all time?

The other 6 Princes of Hell are Satan, Lucifer, Leviathon, Mammon, Belphegor & Asmodeus

Mammon also being often called the Son of Satan. Asmodeus was the name of the giant adder in the novel Redwall.

Two off-topic posts in an exchange with falcon to start the game. I'm inclined to say it means nothing.

Spoiler: show

I think I'm town which is a little disappointing

your avi scares me. what do you mean you think you're town?

Awkward initial interaction with esooa. HK has a direct question for Esooa RE: a thing she said, but has to soften with an empty comment about her avatar first. Two totally separate thoughts crammed up against each other.

Spoiler: show

@Alison I'll take a tarot read if you wanna do one

yeah ok I was asking for that wasn't I

hollowkatt asked for a broken image?

Spoiler: show

If this is scum theatre this is the best I’ve ever seen.

Spoiler: show

That hasn’t been done by me.

I find this hard to believe. I don't think there was anything special about Marmot's interaction with me. I think you are just pulling up random posts and slapping some semi-defensible comment on them to look solvey.

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

funny, I was gonna call him town lol

hollowkatt was gonna call Gavial town. For observing the possibility of scum theater. Idk. This might mean something. It might mean nothing.
I am Alison, so hooray I don't need to read that half of the interaction. Hollowkatt is publicly disagreed with her, so there's that to be mindful of.

Spoiler: show

I think Samusamu is townie in ways that make him appear to be an easy push for mafia. I call this the Michelle-Timsup2nothin archetype. Of the people pushing him I find falcon's push most townie because it seems motivated by a mixture of paranoia and townie OMGUS. Urist and Gavial piling on are things that I am not a fan of at all.

not sure I'd lump Tim into that archetype. He's way more feisty than Michelle. Maybe call it the Michelle-Wisdom archetype and I'm in.
yes that means I think samusamu might be town. I'm not getting the weirdness from that conversation others are

hollowkatt nitpicks some non-game chatter from Alison instead of diving right into the samu read. HK's read eventually comes out as "I think samu might be town", which is not the most resounding confidence you'll ever see. Is that because hollowkatt is uncomfortable talking about a teammate, or are is it just stilted because hk is coming from an informed position in general? I'll be keeping an eye on samu in here, I guess.

Spoiler: show

Urist looks pretty oppurtunistuc pouncing on Samu's and my interaction, calls us a w/w team before announcing he won't be back for awhile.


How do others see that?

somewhere between weak and lame

Townie points for Urist. This is harsher shade than I would expect a teammate to toss around so early in the game.

Spoiler: show

why not take votes seriously though?

I mean, votes should always be considered for their meaning. I think the word "serious" isn't quite right. Samu's vote didn't look at all like it was meant to contribute to a TK of Falcon, and rarely are early D1 votes meant in that way. Instead they are more used to generate content and reactions. Samu naked voted Falcon, and then when pressed, asked Falcon what he thinks of that. That vote looks "non-serious" to be in the sense that I don't really think Samu was thinking about TKing Falcon there. If Samu is town, it was a reaction test, and if he is scum, I don't think he would cast a vote meant to stay there this early in D1.

Doing reaction tests like that IMO is >rand town, and Falcon taking the vote seriously enough to OMGUS Samu I think is >rand scum.

basically there's a difference between "I intend to kill you with this vote" and "I wonder what happens if I vote you here". There's also "this vote is literally for laughs" but that category is generally really obvs.

Can see how ppl are getting to wolfy falcon off of that.

I feel I shuold note here that I have read nothing and am not looking at these posts in the larger context of the thread. But looking at this post in a vacuum: seanzie is town, falcon is mafia. Seanzie's response to a general gripe from hollowkatt looks very sincere, like he's trying to correct what he sees as a misconception. The line about falcon feels tacked on and timid.

Spoiler: show

If this is scum theatre this is the best I’ve ever seen.

Spoiler: show

That hasn’t been done by me.

I find this hard to believe. I don't think there was anything special about Marmot's interaction with me. I think you are just pulling up random posts and slapping some semi-defensible comment on them to look solvey.

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

funny, I was gonna call him town lol

I think Samusamu is townie in ways that make him appear to be an easy push for mafia. I call this the Michelle-Timsup2nothin archetype. Of the people pushing him I find falcon's push most townie because it seems motivated by a mixture of paranoia and townie OMGUS. Urist and Gavial piling on are things that I am not a fan of at all.

not sure I'd lump Tim into that archetype. He's way more feisty than Michelle. Maybe call it the Michelle-Wisdom archetype and I'm in.
yes that means I think samusamu might be town. I'm not getting the weirdness from that conversation others are

What makes you TR me?
Also, By “weirdness” I’m assuming your not seeing the lack of genuineness that I see.
Alright, then do you just think Samu might be town for the same reason Alison has given “Easy ML” or do you have your own take regarding Samu?

I like your tone. Sure, wolves can fake tone, you might even be good at that I dunno, but I like it. I also like the way you're approaching things and leaving your thoughts on the table.

By weirdness I mean the clustery conversation he was a part of. I didn't read him as coming off weird or disingenuous.
my samu take is that I don't think he's doing/saying wolfy things. Has nothing to do with him being ML bait like Alison would say.

Light townie points for Gavial here. There's nothing here that can't possibly be a teammate interaction, but I feel his tone is genuinely inquisitive, and hk's response is wordy enough to look like a "real" answer, as opposed to a staged and obligatory response to a teammate.

Spoiler: show

Gavial is doing way too much right now. extreme wolf vibes

why?

Generic "why" about a gavial scum read from Bo. Okay.

Spoiler: show

Gavial is doing way too much right now. extreme wolf vibes

His wall posts look trippy on mushrooms right now

they look like wall posts on edibles.

This post does not need to exist. It is a barely-relevant observation made by falcon. Hollowkatt literally just rewords the comment. Why on earth does this exist?

Spoiler: show

Gavial is doing way too much right now. extreme wolf vibes

why?

They're not sitting right with me. It feels like he's making something out of nothing.

Gavial is doing way too much right now. extreme wolf vibes

I do not feel extreme wolf vibes from Gavial.

See above for my reasoning.

Gavial is doing way too much right now. extreme wolf vibes

His wall posts look trippy on mushrooms right now

They confused me more than anyhting.

can you give an example or two of where he's trying to make something out of nothing? I'm seeing a lot of stream of consciousness stuff, not really seeing manufacturing stuff

hollowkatt is engaging heavily with the gavial suspicion. Could be a good sign for Gavial. There's an outside chance this is cooperative theater with Bo, but I don't think so. I think it looks like a mafiakatt trying to get a civilian Bo to do the legwork on a civilian chop.

Spoiler: show

ok thanks. I can see how he gets to "one of falcon, seanzie, samusamu is a wolf". Seems like that's a fairly reasonable stance to take. Not thrilled with his "don't want to hit wrong" take tho, it's still early.
His second post you quote is meh to me. Can grok why you don't like it.
Third post is a throw-away in my book.

I guess I get what concerns you, so thanks, I appreciate it.

I would have voted for hollowkatt based off of this post. If any post ever gave off the vibes of talking at one's feet and shrugging one's shoulders, it's this one. Bo is town off of this, and I'll take that to the bank. hollowkatt appears to have no idea how to respond to this case naturally.
I am less sure what it says about Gavial now. The awkwardness of the response could be indicative of a Gavial/hollowkatt partnership, wherein HK regrets pushing so hard and getting an actual substantive case on their partner and now needs to find a way out of it. Or it could be that hollowkatt is trying to position themself in such a way that they can vote for Gavial if needed, but does not want to appear overly-eager in doing so. Gun to my head, I'm saying it's the latter.

Spoiler: show

ok thanks. I can see how he gets to "one of falcon, seanzie, samusamu is a wolf". Seems like that's a fairly reasonable stance to take. Not thrilled with his "don't want to hit wrong" take tho, it's still early.
His second post you quote is meh to me. Can grok why you don't like it.
Third post is a throw-away in my book.

I guess I get what concerns you, so thanks, I appreciate it.

Yeah, but here's the thing...he's called out D1 voting and early play already as not being something to build legit reads on, right?


So why is he taking these early interactions so seriously himself and framing it "1 of these 3 is Maf"? Seems contradictory to his earlier stance, no?


His "don't wanna hit wrong" is total bullshit, that is not a townie mindset at all.


Pffft, real town obviously never wanna hit wrong, but its D1! Nobody is close to getting hit yet, and even if we were...its D1, hitting wrong happens.


He def seems a flame fanner fo sho.

fuck it I'm in [VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

Okay Gavial town. Falcon TBD, still. I could see a world where this is a teammate goading another into voting for a vulnerable townie. But... as I type that sentence, I'm not sure that ever actually happens. Maybe falcon town too. I still don't know.

Spoiler: show

Idk I'm just shocked someone is already talking w/w about two people having a quick interaction.

I’m just saying don’t rule it out.
The person who said exact they think it’s w/w was Urist.
But I suppose I can’t blame yeah as you could have missed that post considering Urist only has a grand total of 2 posts.

odds on urist wolf if either of those two flip town?

I'm not sure I understand what's happening here, but Urist is still town.

Spoiler: show

I was gonna say there could be no wolves at all and they are just lying in the back but then I realize that TSP/Urist/Doom/Jessie as the team is kinda dumb.

why's that?

like say you've got a chunk of townies having at it with each other, why step in the middle of that? Why not rumble in later and go "eh, this all looks dumb/theater/performative" and push based on that?

I am about ready to lock Gavial in as town now too.

Spoiler: show

so who are wolves

ur face

Silly banter with TSP. Noted.

Spoiler: show

hk your pfp is my phone background for approximately 16 weeks every year

attention everyone: TSP gets a free pass today

Spoiler: show

idk if it's just me but there's way too many big quote chains and discussions only pertinent to the couple people involved

Why do you town read Samu?

because he made like ten posts in a row about that one guy everyone is talking about and he has no reason to do that as mafia

That’s ugh....
Dumb?

Anyone can make a post about anything.
It ain’t AI mate.

but I'm right

anything else that makes you like him cause that is kinda weaksauce

This can be the beginnings of a teammate interaction with Esooa.

Spoiler: show

The only powerwolfing Gavial is doing is effectively making me want to play less

What is Gavial doing? There have been a few posts of his that have irked me a bit, but you seem to be bothered to a pretty big degree and I don't understand why.

It's the annoying attitude, behind someone who is spam posting the thread with a read on me. I feel forced to interact with him, and then during the times he has brought me up it comes with some "I know better than you" tone. I just wish people wouldn't act so confident and annoying at the same time. I'm only talking about it because he's literally been 95% of the game recently

straight up: do you wolf read Gavial? if you do, why?
like ok, clearly he wolf reads you, and that seems to bother you, I guess? It sounds to me like the crux of the reason you wolf read him is because he's loud and he wolf reads you and he's confident in what he's posting, right? Or am I missing something else?

This does not feel like a teammate interaction with DaughterOfOmega. Hollowkatt's tone is very blunt, getting down to business and forcing a response out of DoOm. The way it's framed makes me think hollowkatt is hoping this can snowball into a suspicion.

Spoiler: show

The only powerwolfing Gavial is doing is effectively making me want to play less

What is Gavial doing? There have been a few posts of his that have irked me a bit, but you seem to be bothered to a pretty big degree and I don't understand why.

It's the annoying attitude, behind someone who is spam posting the thread with a read on me. I feel forced to interact with him, and then during the times he has brought me up it comes with some "I know better than you" tone. I just wish people wouldn't act so confident and annoying at the same time. I'm only talking about it because he's literally been 95% of the game recently

straight up: do you wolf read Gavial? if you do, why?
like ok, clearly he wolf reads you, and that seems to bother you, I guess? It sounds to me like the crux of the reason you wolf read him is because he's loud and he wolf reads you and he's confident in what he's posting, right? Or am I missing something else?

See this is where you are missing things. If I thought someone was mafia, I have no reason to be bothered with their behavior, I get to just vote them and ignore their posts.

The issue is I clearly don't know. I used to be very annoying and confident as a town player, and he reminds me a lot of that. These kind of players are usually doing these things as town, so I am forced to interact with a likely town member who wants to push me in the dumbest way possible.

I would have figured you were smart enough to realize this without asking if I think he is mafia.

going to ignore the snark at the end and just focus on your answer.
You town read Gavial then, is your answer. You're annoyed with him then b/c you think he's town and you think he's anti-town with the way he's making pushes/engaging with others/interacting with the thread. Would that be accurate?

It reads to me that you're offended that he wolf reads you, which is just like super weird to me. Instead of engaging with him and finding out why he's wolf reading you and seeing if you and him can work something out you're kinda snippy about him and vagueposting about how much fun you're not having.

am I wrong?

Okay yeah Doomtown.
Extended exchanges with DoOm and Gavial that I'm not gonna waste time on because they are both town.

Spoiler: show

If you are being serious, work on your ability to analyze the game

Is this directed at anyone in particular or do you just kinda think everyone who isn't you is shite?

I can't speak for DoO, but I assume it's the latter.
I do think that's more of a townie mindset for her though. I don't disagree with the points you're making about her *in general*, but I don't think they apply to DoO.

tbh I want to wolf read her for it. mostly b/c I've done what she's doing as wolf, and I've had it done to me. It's kinda effective b/c as long as you're not crossing the line from "annoyed and responding with snark and sarcasm" into "actually insulting people" it gets people who sus you to back off.

Outside of her interactions with me/Gavial what's your take on DoO? I know my read on her is currently clouded by my recent interactions.

You "want" to wolf read her? Are you wolf reading her, or no?

I wolf read AtE

I'll call seanzie town too. This is a solid nitpick, and hollowkatt's response looks a bit uneasy.

Spoiler: show

Seanzie & Gavial are top scum for me.


[VOTE: VOTE SEANZIE] aubergine

spicy
why are they top scum?

Falcon continues to be a big juicy Maybe.

Spoiler: show

I will proceed by not voting myself because this game sucks

lock town never rescinding

Does this post exist if Esooa and hollowkatt are partners? Idk. I'm gonna go ahead and remind myself that I jotted down a note that "this could be the beginnings of a teammate interaction with Esooa" a few posts ago, but then there was no follow-up to that, which makes me squint my eyes and/or furrow my brow.

Spoiler: show

yeah yeah voted in the poll.
@Esooa why are you self-voting and how did I miss that?

Marmot had (jokingly) self-voted a few minutes prior and HK responded as if they were obligated to vote for him in response. Then hollowkatt notices Esooa has self-voted and extends to her the good grace of asking for an explanation.

Spoiler: show

yeah yeah voted in the poll.
@Esooa why are you self-voting and how did I miss that?

because I lied when I said I will proceed to not vote myself

all you need now is some ate and you can complete the trifecta of bad! Also I'm voting you now

Meh. This is stilted and not serious and there continues to be no reason Esooa cannot be hollowkatt's teammate.

Spoiler: show

where I'm at:
town
Gavail
Marmot
Sam

leans town
Doom
Esooa

everyone else is some flavor of POE or another, or I'm not paying attention

If we're following the rule that a member of the mafia team will always include at least one teammate in their lists, then I'm picking Esooa here. Marmot has already flipped. DaughterOfOmega and Gavial both look hella town in this ISO. Samu has looked vaguely-but-less-definitively town. Esooa has been iffy at best throughout.

Spoiler: show

Seanzie & Gavial are top scum for me.


[VOTE: VOTE SEANZIE] aubergine

Care to elaborate?

I found his approach to Samu's & I the most opphrtunistic

What did you find opportunistic about it? And does that mean you town read Samu then?

This could be another example of a mafioso trying to get a civilian do the the heavy lifting on justifying a suspicion. Or it could be a phony interaction with a teammate (falcon). I continue to DK.

Spoiler: show

anyways I'm gay

we know... also ur a wolf

Yuck. I might just believe this post.

Spoiler: show

Alison - Null
Doom - Null
Esooa - Town
Falcon - Scum
Gavial - Scum
Hollowkatt - Town
JessieKruger - Null
Long Con - Null
Marmot - Mixed feelings
Samusamu - Town
Seanzie - Town
Tsp - Null
Urist - Town

Why so many nulls?

and also how are you getting to scum on Gavial? / town on Seanzie?

Why is seanzie the lead wagon?

cause he's kinda scummy

These three posts in quick succession make me feel good about Bo. These are all relatively small moments, and I feel like the only way hollowkatt/bo are teammates is if they felt like they needed to interact more in the thread, so HK just decided to spam responses to Bo. I don't think that's what's happening. Particularly because it's not as if these two haven't interacted already. Bo's name hasn't been as present as others, but I remember it coming up a bit fairly early on. And also, these interactions do not have a clear direction. I think when teammates interact, they tend to do so with purpose. These are all posts where HK is just sort of tapping Bo on the shoulder. The last one especially feels like a non-teammate response: If Teammate A asks why a player is the top wagon, I don't think Teammate B response with such a nothing, unserious response. I think hollowkatt would be more likely to give a more substantive response, or just not respond at all.

Spoiler: show

Pretty sure Hollowkatt/Esooa is a thing, and Hollowkatt just slipped. They probably planned to flip to me in wolf chat, and Hollowkatt forgot what order it went in.

yeah, we had a big theater thing cooked up in wolf chat and then oops, hk made a boo boo...

If I haven't already said this, Seanzie is lock town. Esooa can still be mafia.

Spoiler: show

Fairly confident their the designated ML right now

you think Falcon is a better hit than Seanz then? Sell me on why Falcon

Maybe this could finally be indicative of a town falcon. Hollowkatt appears to be genuinely opening the door to voting for Falcon if this seanzie thing falters.
I'll call Bo town for this

Spoiler: show

Well the lc wagon is still in offer.

I have bad feelings about this offer

Hm. Samu town, maybe. Do teammates disagree like this about wagons so close to the deadline? I don't think so. And this is the first time I've seen Long Con get any sort of mention in HK's ISO. So there's that.

Spoiler: show

hk, urist, samu and I can agree on a wagon to put over hk

I have few preferences

give your names

Obvs I think seanzie. I'm leery of the LC offer from Samu b/c I don't have a particularly strong read on either of them in either direction. You're off the table. I still like Marmot as town even though I think his push on me is bad and based in bad reads/information

Yeah Samu town. LC maybe mafia.

Nothing that happens after this point changes my feelings about anyone.

-----------

tl;dr - Esooa and Long Con potential suspects.
Falcon gets a lot of shrugs, but with a gun to my head I would lean town.

Seanzie, urist, samu, Bo, Gavial, DaughterOfOmega are all firm town reads from this. Maybe someone else that I'm for.

And that leaves TSP as the only player I haven't named yet!

Seanzie
Gavial
DaughterOfOmega
Urist
Samu
BoKnows
Falcon
TonyStarkPrime
Long Con
Esooa

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine for emphasis.

Next order of business will be to ISO those individual players, but that's not happening right now.

Let's vote your top scum pick Esooa instead

[TonyStarkPrime]

where's your head at?

idk what to do about sloonei

[TonyStarkPrime]

that's a big wall

[TonyStarkPrime]

we got time though it's all good

[BoKnows]

where's your head at?

idk what to do about sloonei

wdym? he's done more in this game than 1/2 the lobby

[Sloonei]

Esooa is where my vote would be if the deadline was right now. But the deadline isn’t for like 30 hours, so I’m on Long Con because he should be talked about too, according to the small portion of the game I’ve looked at.

[Sloonei]

where's your head at?

idk what to do about sloonei

I recommend addressing your concerns directly.

[TonyStarkPrime]

where's your head at?

idk what to do about sloonei

I recommend addressing your concerns directly.

you just showed up

[Sloonei]

where's your head at?

idk what to do about sloonei

I recommend addressing your concerns directly.

you just showed up

and?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Once again I ask the people with good meta reads on falcon to come out of the woodwork

[TonyStarkPrime]

where's your head at?

idk what to do about sloonei

I recommend addressing your concerns directly.

you just showed up

and?

I have no questions yet

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think your analysis on Esooa is wrong and I don’t even think that that strongly

[BoKnows]

I don't think I've seen one LC post this entire game

[TonyStarkPrime]

where's your head at?

idk what to do about sloonei

wdym? he's done more in this game than 1/2 the lobby

weird

[Samusamu]

well i want lc to appear.

Meanwhile i think im gonna reread in some moment the eod and the esooa posts.

Meanwhile if it helps to sloonei.

[VOTE: LonCon] aubergine

[Sloonei]

I think your analysis on Esooa is wrong and I don’t even think that that strongly

I have no analysis on Esooa. I have analysis on hollowkatt on esooa.

[Esooa]

I think slooneis big post is agreeable enough. The biggest thing I would look at in it is that he may be giving doom too much credit. The interaction he points out is good, but he afterwards has more confidence than I would expect just from that, saying, "DaughterOfOmega and Gavial both look hella town in this ISO."

seanzie, urist, and bk are town though

outside of that I'm shrug

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think your analysis on Esooa is wrong and I don’t even think that that strongly

I have no analysis on Esooa. I have analysis on hollowkatt on esooa.

wolfy pedantry

[Sloonei]

I think your analysis on Esooa is wrong and I don’t even think that that strongly

I have no analysis on Esooa. I have analysis on hollowkatt on esooa.

wolfy pedantry

I just cleared 6 or 7 players in my first real post of the game.

[DaughterOfOmega]

Sloonei trying too hard for me, I can't handle someone who puts in effort nowadays

[Sloonei]

I think slooneis big post is agreeable enough. The biggest thing I would look at in it is that he may be giving doom too much credit. The interaction he points out is good, but he afterwards has more confidence than I would expect just from that, saying, "DaughterOfOmega and Gavial both look hella town in this ISO."

seanzie, urist, and bk are town though

outside of that I'm shrug

I thought the way hollowkatt interacted with DaughtetOfOmega looked like a wolf who know they were talking to a civilian who was off the mark. There’s a bit of righteousness in the way HK talks to DoOm, and it that gives me the sense that HK was hoping the exchange could be used as ammunition for a vote if needed down the line.

I have not looked at DaughterOfOmega (or anyone else) in isolation yet.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei trying too hard for me, I can't handle someone who puts in effort nowadays

How serious is this post?

[DaughterOfOmega]

Sloonei trying too hard for me, I can't handle someone who puts in effort nowadays

How serious is this post?

I haven't tried in so long

[Long Con]

LC been sitting and comfy on their vote.

Are you saying LC is the howling wolf?

Prob, also want to know how other see that wagon

I have zero thoughts or opinions on LC

Okey, u want to share something else?

Sure, there's a wolf on my wagon.
I also think esooa/gavial/marmot/falcon/samu aren't wolves.
leaning town on DoO. Dunno on Alison/Bo/TSP/Urist/LC
also, who tf is JessieKruger?

Thinking not Doom based on HK iso

One wolf in each list sounds pretty good to me.

Gavial-Doom is probably town vs town.

I liked Samu's push on Urist for trying to take Samu down over his EoD voting. I think Urist could be scum here.

I think Esooa is town. Sloonei is Alison? I would yeet that slot, I thought Alison was sketchy.

[Seanzie]

Esooa is where my vote would be if the deadline was right now. But the deadline isn’t for like 30 hours, so I’m on Long Con because he should be talked about too, according to the small portion of the game I’ve looked at.

Which portion of the game did you look at to lead you to pick out LC here?

[Long Con]

Falcon's reaction to suspicion felt towny as well.

This is pretty much reactions to catching up the last five pages.

I laughed out loud when Gavial was like "I just want to work together and be productive. Just one thing: DO THE TASK!" like omg

[Long Con]

Esooa is where my vote would be if the deadline was right now. But the deadline isn’t for like 30 hours, so I’m on Long Con because he should be talked about too, according to the small portion of the game I’ve looked at.

Which portion of the game did you look at to lead you to pick out LC here?

Looks like Hollowkatt was defending me, the jerk.