PSY 2310 - Cognitive Psychology [END]

[Marluxion]

just the bolded bit is what i was talking about, weird how it doesn't really look bolded

[Marluxion]

the part i'm referring to is the "If tangrowth is a wolf" sentence

[outed wolf]

okay i isoed zack to be sure

and i just dont think the way he keeps coming back to not trusting vulgard is how wolf him would play it.

i should recheck nutella to be sure, but aorn

if we have:

nl
amy
nutella
zack

marl - need to decide if i think they can gambit this

spf
syn
dya
c4
arete
dizzy

if i trust marl, i just have to find 1 villager out of that lot

[outed wolf]

alright ive had my panic moment over the game

we can go back to regular schedule now

[Marluxion]

marl - need to decide if i think they can gambit this

i wish it were a gambit
being on the same scumteam as vulgard would be based

also only one person can win the neighborhood per night, it says so in the OP
the fact that nobody else claimed it (esp on the night that the quiz was super easy) should confirm the neighborhood chat is real

and there is like no reason other than wifom to neighborize your partner

[Marluxion]

day 1 vc implies nutella and spf are villagers, albeit this is very level 0
day 2 vc should be way way more telling if we get dyachei's flip, especially if they are a wolf since it was actually close

[c4e5g3d5]

c4 legit any kind of solving by you would go some way to making me be willing to village read you

Arete Marl nut spf Visor Zack v
dya w
is all I got, and it doesn't look like much of this actually needs to be said at this point.

[Marluxion]

also odds are i'm dying tonight or tomorrow so there is very little point tinfoiling me yet
in making this message i hope it results in scum keeping me alive so i can joycat as i yeet them from this earth for underestimating my power

(but i'll probably just be dead)

[c4e5g3d5]

I say that right before opening a page of spf getting tinfoiled

[Marluxion]

@dyachei i'm more than willing to give you a chance but i just need your thought processes behind your reads whenever you get a chance

[dyachei]

I mean, i have when i've posted them, but no one seems to read them, marl

[outed wolf]

dya wheres your head at rn

who do you think flips wolf most often

[dyachei]

I still think it's syn. But after that is probably c4

[outed wolf]

who are your most confident villa reads

what do you think of spf/dizzy/arete

[dyachei]

I think I read enough of spf that could be wolfy from vulgard's ISO. she's in my poe. I have a hard time with dizzy because of the way he treated the marl thing. I think he's just town.

I don't know how to read arete

[outed wolf]

can i get you to talk more about spf/c4/dizzy?

[outed wolf]

ill be around for eod

glglgl

[dyachei]

I think c4 started off looking villagery with his posts looking nothing like cov where he was a wolf. There wasnt the same amount of conniving. Come to think of it, I dont know what his read on vulgard was, do you know, NL? Anyway, his posts have had almost zero solving, just telling me I'm a wolf since then. I happen to know I'm not a wolf, so his push looks really bad to me, personally.

spf I think has deep wolf capabilities in this game. Vulgard went out of his way to defend her and his read of her is really kind of bland compared to other reads. I don't have it in me to look over spf's posts again because they tend to be walls. her case has also been "dya's a wolf" without doing much else, but she looks better than c4. there was 1 post in vulgard's iso I thought looked good for her because it seemed more genuine.

Dizzy I'm looking at on the day of the claim from sunbae. I think his reaction to the claim is hard to fake and if he had been vulgard's bro, i think there would have been more dejectedness no excitement at figuring out an interaction.

[Syn]

if syn is town PROBABLY Arete but idfk
i think bronana is a wolf if both chloe and dyachei are town actually

zack is town

why? to both of you

because of the way you are

[Syn]

also I have TMI :zany-face:

[Syn]

idk
it seems like everyone's wim is low, so my motivation to put in a lot of work is lacking too
not even a whole page in the 10 hours since i slept

prob go syn after dyachei if they are wolf
probably spf if dya is town unless dya has any specific direction they want us to go

isnt outed wolf ur top wolfread? why do u agree w/this post when it doesn't mention killing your number one wolfread at any point in the near future?

through the power of POE and likelihood of town doing anything

there is like one other person who vaguely kinda thinks Visor maybe might not be town, sorta

obviously I will be interested in an approach that at least sees the rest of my POE addressed

[Syn]

Outed Wolf is never a wolf with Vulgard

Spoiler: show

much like his extensive history of games with seth eh?

I'm sort of mrrr about how Outed Wolf is trying to discredit townreads on me/reasons to townread me without actually pushing for me to get killed (or even really expressing more than a slight scumread on me)
it kind of feels like he's trying to make sure that I'm a viable push for the future but doesn't want to get his hands dirty pushing me now

LOL
hilarious post - i said i thought you were a villager yesterday, the post is making light of vulgard not you

alright, what was your motivation behind discrediting Vul's reads?

... because he was wrong? he spent like 80 posts yesterday saying how much of a gavial god reader he was and that we couldnt let gavial slip away and we had to kill gavial
with his EXTENSIVE history of catching gavial and hes NEVER BEEN WRONG BEFORE
and he was wrong.
W R O N G
R
O
N
G
INCORRECT
NOT RIGHT
so i gave him a bit of shit for it

This post ~never comes from a partner in my opinion, there's no need to try to rub your partner's face in how they were WRONG and BAD and MISREAD SOMEONE IN A GAME OF MAFIA when you in fact have TMI that they they didn't do that. It's relevant to me that he wasn't (in this post) trying to shade him off of it, which is what I would expect from distancing, but rather to make fun of him, which doesn't make sense from the PoV of a wolf talking about another wolf.

@Syn

can you glance at this paragraph and tell me what you think

IMO the Outed Wolf/Vul associations are very unlikely to be W/W (for this and other reasons, but I think this one is way less likely to be distancing)

(I also don't think Outed Wolf would repeatedly go out of his way to say that I suck at the game as W but this is a weaker point)

visor would absolutely tell people they suck at the game, partnered or not

[nutella]

like i don't mind you wolfreading me, i just want you to make up your mind. if you believe that i'm a wolf, then you should believe it, and you should substantiate it, but not having an opinion on me beyond: "might be a wolf, might not" isn't a good thing at this stage in the game, IMO

...what? why not? we're at a stage of the game where there are a few possible worlds and we're talking in hypotheticals about who might be fooling us if the primary poe is wrong, and i'm saying that for me that person is you. i get if you want me to back it up more than gut and "i know you're good at wolfing" but i don't feel like that needs to happen today because maybe the poe is right after all, but also every time you've responded today i hear more bells -- almost as if you know the game will in fact get to a point where you'll need to be scrutinized more and the tone concerns me

[Syn]

@Syn you have anything resembling a scumread yet? i'll take anything

I offered a POE and got laughed at

although now everyone else's POE "if dya and syn are town" is now the POE I gave, so guess it's not that funny anymore

[nutella]

I say that right before opening a page of spf getting tinfoiled

spf saw the writing on the wall and started slightly distancing from you, maybe you should do the same


also dizzy is still just town

[nutella]

if we want a single cw to dya, atm i feel like c4 should be it

[nutella]

though dizzys points on dya sort of brought me back to my roots and made me feel better again about them flipping red

visor's sudden turn *felt* righteous too tho

idk

[nutella]

looking back at the "c4 redcheck" moment bc amy thought it was clearing for spf

c4 almost certainly a wolf PR if he's carrying the kills

so i'd expect his partners to have been shielding him pretty hard prior to now

hence spf

if c4 is a wolf then it should be pretty obvious how he exploited our very specific meta dynamic to pocket me from early on and replicate the exact same towngame that i've seen from him multiple times. i don't mind getting more scrutiny given that it seems like i was annoyingly wrong about my read on c4, but should be pretty obvious that our dynamic isn't W/W if you look further into it

i know you've talked about the meta dynamic a few times now but would love more solid evidence that it's not w/w
---
but her reactions on this page (and then to sunbae's switcheroo) do feel alright

[staypositivefriend]

like i don't mind you wolfreading me, i just want you to make up your mind. if you believe that i'm a wolf, then you should believe it, and you should substantiate it, but not having an opinion on me beyond: "might be a wolf, might not" isn't a good thing at this stage in the game, IMO

...what? why not? we're at a stage of the game where there are a few possible worlds and we're talking in hypotheticals about who might be fooling us if the primary poe is wrong, and i'm saying that for me that person is you. i get if you want me to back it up more than gut and "i know you're good at wolfing" but i don't feel like that needs to happen today because maybe the poe is right after all, but also every time you've responded today i hear more bells -- almost as if you know the game will in fact get to a point where you'll need to be scrutinized more and the tone concerns me

because you've mentioned how wolfy i am and how much you've been getting pinged by me no less than a dozen times today, but your thoughts about me don't seem (from what i can tell) to extend beyond: "spf is wolfy because she's a good wolf and also vulgard"

i'm not stupid and i can tell when a harmful dichotomy is forming in the thread - and the dichotomy that's forming rn is that if dyachei is a villager, i'm a wolf. if we do live in a world where dyachei is town, then i'm trying to prevent a situation where i get immediately piled on the following day by making people actually read my posts and form opinions about them, something that i haven't felt the people being suspicious of me today have actually done

but you are right that it might not be necessary to do that right now - i just wanted to feel like you were in the active process of figuring out my alignment, and i didn't feel that way by the way that you've been referring to me throughout the day, and especially not in posts like this:

I say that right before opening a page of spf getting tinfoiled

spf saw the writing on the wall and started slightly distancing from you, maybe you should do the same

[bronana]

Spoiler: show

SPF hasn't selfvoted yet. Sus.

Amy's town. Early comfort in the thread, and the read on Zack has a level of nuance I wouldn't expect from a wolf on page 1. It doesn't look like Amy's forcing herself to make a nuanced read for townpoints. It has a natural buildup/progression.

Hally calling it a push on Zack and V-leaning Amy for it is interesting. I didn't see it as a push, per se, just an early scumread. Fmpov she's overestimating the value of Amy's post.

Some part of my brain tells me Hally is conscious about her teammate, Zack, getting scumread. Would explain why she's placating Amy in that world; but I dislike preflips, so. Might come back to it later.

I tonally like outed wolf's response to Hally's post there. SPF townreads it, though, and later calls c4e town based on them voting her.

Imagine I'm voting spf for the first time

town

This mean you know why?

not really - i just see that you're being coy about your reasoning for finding me suspicious and keeping your cards close to your chest, which is the direct inverse of how you approached the early game as a wolf in CoV, which makes me think that youre probably just playing from a villager mindset

(you also agreed with me about arete's vote being vaguely towny even though i did not put that thought into the thread and decided to keep it to myself)

This is too far out there. Her extrapolating so much from that post looks like TMI. Saying SPF is sus for not selfvoting was a meme, but her being quick to townread both c4e and Hally is wolfy. Neither deserves early townreads for their posting. Especially not Hally, who SPF has experience with as both alignments.

Zack notices that about SPF, but his take is "wolf writes a post they think sounds good," not "wolf TMIng c4e/Hally (?)." Still like the fact he chose to point that out, though he isn't committing. V lean.

SPF calling nutella nervous also feels like a conclusion drawn too early. It being instantly sheeped is another thing.

I like the spark in nutella's response to SPF wolfreading her. No defensiveness, a lot of snark, plus an unrelated wolfread showing she's solving. Her wolfread isn't predicated on the people voting/pushing her, either. SPF's treatment of nutella is another story. Below is another post that I read a few times and keep getting the impression SPF knows nutella's town. Mostly about the language she uses. Relevant parts bolded.

no, you are still misconstruing literally everything i said and everything i tried to explain in the very response you are quoting

stop twisting my words

you said my post was suspicious because of "nervous energy" or something and i've explained that that is because of my efforts to conserve posts and the fact that doing so is incredibly unnatural for me and makes the tone of my posts sound unnatural

so no, i haven't misrepresented your reasoning, i've acknowledged it

and i did not call dya wolfy so stop fucking implying i did, that's really uh. un-- well. the u word. you know the one

so, to recap, the wording of your original post was this:

"ah yes putting multiy thoughts in one post is wolfy for me, it is known

dya however has multiple posts with zero thoughts

there is a cap of 100 with no lift"

the reasoning here is that if it's wolfy for you to put multiple thoughts into one post, it's also wolfy for dyachei to make multiple posts with zero thoughts, yes? you are drawing a contrast between dyachei and yourself, and saying that people should be looking at dyachei instead of you if they're looking for wolfy behavior, right?

if that's not what you mean to say, then i do apologize for misconstruing your words, but i don't really see any other way to interpret that post. you are not saying that you personally find dyachei wolfy, but you are attempting to draw attention to behavior from dyachei that looks wolfy, yes?

to recap further, when you said the following:

"ah yes putting multiy thoughts in one post is wolfy for me, it is known"

you were characterizing the reasoning for people scumreading you as being about your attempts to condense your posts, when the real reason was ~nervousness~. i understand that you are saying that you sounding tonally off is a byproduct of you attempting to conserve your posts, but you have to admit that you made a bit of an extrapolation there, yes? you used hyperbolized language to describe what you perceived as the real reason people were scumreading you for, and then used that as the foundation for your argument. that's why i called it a "misrepresentation"

i don't really see the point in getting bogged down in a discussion like this, so we should probably table it here, but i am put off by the aggressiveness and i felt like it was important to make this post and explain my perspective, because we are clearly miscommunicating incredibly badly if we're both town

nutella is a villager

what makes you think so?

Alison's opening is ~fine? I had a thought about it but it disappeared, and this annoys me. Her take that sunbae/bronana/outed wolf contains a wolf based on the nutella push is decent on the surface. Don't agree with bronana being mafia, though. Their evaluation of SPF's post on page 1 is a villagery thought and I'm comfortable V reading them for having it.

Amy's posts are still super towny as I continue to read. How large is her scumrange?

SPF and Hally both vote Gavial. I actually agree. I was going to say that in this post but I see other people said it first. I've played many games with Gavial and caught him as a wolf several times, can link the games if you'd like. His play in this game so far looks squarely in wolf meta. The only concern I have is that it's SPF and Hally who pointed that out.

SPF's been posting lots more words. I'm beginning to think my initial scumread is a playstyle thing more than anything else. I should probably go read her CoV ISO for #reasons.

@nutella Where's the massive KZA townread coming from? Their posts didn't give me any impression whatsoever.

Didn't like Sunbae's initial posts but their posting this page has been good. Very high complexity of thought. I wolfread them in MU anni last year precisely because their thoughts didn't have that iirc. And because I disagreed with their takes a lot. Sunbae's take on Alison here is pretty good and I see where Sunbae's coming from.

Okay I'm done.

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

If they're town I should know this by EoD.

Same with Arete. Right now I'm null. Don't think anything they've done so far is out of their wolfrange. And you shouldn't underestimate Arete's wolfrange.

did vulgard really make this long ass opening post purely making reads on villagers? that doesn't seem right

[bronana]

@Syn you have anything resembling a scumread yet? i'll take anything

I offered a POE and got laughed at

although now everyone else's POE "if dya and syn are town" is now the POE I gave, so guess it's not that funny anymore

wait, what is your poe?

[staypositivefriend]

idk
it seems like everyone's wim is low, so my motivation to put in a lot of work is lacking too
not even a whole page in the 10 hours since i slept

prob go syn after dyachei if they are wolf
probably spf if dya is town unless dya has any specific direction they want us to go

isnt outed wolf ur top wolfread? why do u agree w/this post when it doesn't mention killing your number one wolfread at any point in the near future?

through the power of POE and likelihood of town doing anything

there is like one other person who vaguely kinda thinks Visor maybe might not be town, sorta

obviously I will be interested in an approach that at least sees the rest of my POE addressed

huh? the only person that gets addressed in this POE besides you and dyachei is exactly me. am i the sole name on your POE?

[bronana]

outed wolf + syn
lock it in
for the win
put them in the bin
wolfing like sin
you think that's a schwinn

[staypositivefriend]

how does syn look at a POE that includes a total of 3 names (syn, dyachei, SPF) 2 of which he thinks are town, and one of which he has vaguely alluded to being suspicious of, and conclude that it "takes care" of the rest of his POE?

nothing makes sense

[nutella]

spf I'm not just mindlessly tunneling you lmao
I just have a feeling, and don't have much time or inclination to deep-dive on it yet -- though I did a little bit of looking at stuff in my previous post and came out feeling a little better. a not insignificant part of me hopes that you and c4 are just villagers who correctly found each other and I'm not ignoring that possibility, especially since I recognize that I did have reasons to townread you earlier

my post to c4 was somewhat tongue in cheek and wanting to see how he'd react, it doesn't actually mean I'm locked in on you being wolves lol

@c4e5g3d5 what is your take on syn btw?

[bronana]

how does syn look at a POE that includes a total of 3 names (syn, dyachei, SPF) 2 of which he thinks are town, and one of which he has vaguely alluded to being suspicious of, and conclude that it "takes care" of the rest of his POE?

nothing makes sense

outed wolf + syn
lock it in
for the win
put them in the bin
wolfing like sin
you think that's a schwinn

[Syn]

idk
it seems like everyone's wim is low, so my motivation to put in a lot of work is lacking too
not even a whole page in the 10 hours since i slept

prob go syn after dyachei if they are wolf
probably spf if dya is town unless dya has any specific direction they want us to go

isnt outed wolf ur top wolfread? why do u agree w/this post when it doesn't mention killing your number one wolfread at any point in the near future?

through the power of POE and likelihood of town doing anything

there is like one other person who vaguely kinda thinks Visor maybe might not be town, sorta

obviously I will be interested in an approach that at least sees the rest of my POE addressed

huh? the only person that gets addressed in this POE besides you and dyachei is exactly me. am i the sole name on your POE?

for someone who is quick to jump on others to demand specificity and detailed analysis, you demonstrate a shocking lack of recall when it is most convenient

[Syn]

how does syn look at a POE that includes a total of 3 names (syn, dyachei, SPF) 2 of which he thinks are town, and one of which he has vaguely alluded to being suspicious of, and conclude that it "takes care" of the rest of his POE?

nothing makes sense

why are you pretending to quote me when the thing you're quoting is something I didn't say

[staypositivefriend]

idk
it seems like everyone's wim is low, so my motivation to put in a lot of work is lacking too
not even a whole page in the 10 hours since i slept

prob go syn after dyachei if they are wolf
probably spf if dya is town unless dya has any specific direction they want us to go

isnt outed wolf ur top wolfread? why do u agree w/this post when it doesn't mention killing your number one wolfread at any point in the near future?

through the power of POE and likelihood of town doing anything

there is like one other person who vaguely kinda thinks Visor maybe might not be town, sorta

obviously I will be interested in an approach that at least sees the rest of my POE addressed

huh? the only person that gets addressed in this POE besides you and dyachei is exactly me. am i the sole name on your POE?

for someone who is quick to jump on others to demand specificity and detailed analysis, you demonstrate a shocking lack of recall when it is most convenient

what am i failing to recall? enlighten me!

[staypositivefriend]

how does syn look at a POE that includes a total of 3 names (syn, dyachei, SPF) 2 of which he thinks are town, and one of which he has vaguely alluded to being suspicious of, and conclude that it "takes care" of the rest of his POE?

nothing makes sense

why are you pretending to quote me when the thing you're quoting is something I didn't say

why are you deflecting away from the main point?

[staypositivefriend]

how does syn look at a POE that includes a total of 3 names (syn, dyachei, SPF) 2 of which he thinks are town, and one of which he has vaguely alluded to being suspicious of, and conclude that it "takes care" of the rest of his POE?

nothing makes sense

outed wolf + syn
lock it in
for the win
put them in the bin
wolfing like sin
you think that's a schwinn

u sold me

[Syn]

because your main point is fake and I don't play chess vs pigeons

[nutella]

I also think it's more likely that c4 is a wolf without spf than spf wolf without c4
partially because he's just not as villagery in general, partially due to the actual meta reasoning on spf, partially that she's even starting to worry she could be wrong on him while he hasn't budged and just seems static

plus I think there's room for c4/syn as a solve -- it's dya's solve if they're v, and now that I think of it chloe really hammered hard on the "c4 is nothing like cov" point

[staypositivefriend]

it's not fake. your "POE" is outed wolf, c4, dizzy, and myself. the POE that you say will "address" the rest of your POE is dyachei, yourself, and myself

if i'm so obviously wrong, then it should be easy to correct me, right?

[Syn]

it's not fake. your "POE" is outed wolf, c4, dizzy, and myself. the POE that you say will "address" the rest of your POE is dyachei, yourself, and myself

if i'm so obviously wrong, then it should be easy to correct me, right?

ok sure I'll waste my time doing this

Marluxion says if dya is a wolf, chop syn. if dya is town, chop SPF.

dya is the main wagon

I believe dya is town and will flip town

so I am supporting a world where the next chop is you

please let me know if this is challenging to follow along with

[staypositivefriend]

it's wacky that you described a POE containing three names, two of which you believe are 100% villagers, as "addressing" the rest of your POE, when the only person it addresses is me, a name that you have only vaguely alluded suspicion to prior to this point

but alright

[nutella]

don't love that c4 popped into thread, listed several townreads and a single wolfread that's probably resolving today instead of a poe or any other thoughts, acknowledged that spf was getting some pressure, and popped back out

like i know ive said that it doesnt feel like we need to do much active solving today but cmon give me *something* more than that

[nutella]

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

[Syn]

it's wacky that you described a POE containing three names, two of which you believe are 100% villagers, as "addressing" the rest of your POE, when the only person it addresses is me, a name that you have only vaguely alluded suspicion to prior to this point

but alright

if people chop you and you flip red, I somewhat doubt I'd be up next, which means the immediate POE becomes c4 and [blank]

dizzy is fine now

poe is just you, c4, and visor, with arete on the fringe

visor's "oh shit oh fuck the POE is all town!!!" thing is scummy as fuck btw

[bronana]

yes i am wolfing