Buckets: War of the GOATs [END]

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I'm not even gonna point out the irony of you making an "i think the meta reads are bad so I'm ignoring them" argument

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I mean I am pointing it out but im not making a big deal out of it

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Fwiw, I dislike that nanook isn’t voting me despite making it clear I’m his main fos

Wiml actually has a chance to go over, you're unlikely to

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

well imo if the team is nanook/wiml right now is the perfect time to distance

so that they're doing it isn't unpartnered

I contributed to an effort to kill him eod1 too

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

This is a pretty depressing thread tbh

[Wiml]

Ender's reaction to the case on me is really bad.

[ilario]

idk his attitude is really towny imo

i know it's vague and i can quote certain posts if u want me to but like... he just feels confident in his role as town...

This is his MO as scum who is under pressure. He openwolfs, and is loud and makes a lot of poats, and people who can't or won't think critically clear him for no reason.

which is kinda why i wanted to know his mo as town but apparently he doesn't get misread as town?

@Esooa im gathering from this convo that when mac is town hes pretty obv town, are we talking LC levels of IC towniness here?

[Wiml]

[VOTE: wiml] aubergine

Ilario still scum too tbh

Do you genuinely think I could be partnered with illario?

[MacDougall]

Is there some obvious reason why you couldn't be?

[Wiml]

like when wiml responded to me town reading transcend

I immediately felt he was a wolf who know transcend was town

it also had to do with transcend being town

thing is, I outed a town read on transcend

wiml probably would be more inquisitive about this or care about my read

he responded with a shitty reason to wolf read transcend like he's trying to keep the transcend lynch on tracks

I explain more in depth, with the transcend progression on LC early game

wiml.. didn't seem that interested in the read. And says even after reading a game from transcend he still thinks transcend is a wolf

but around this time I also say wiml not agreeing with me is cause for concern

he later reads a second transcend game, and then flipped his read. It didn't sound believable at all and it was entirely like he's appeasing me

also, he was super self conscious about my unoutted read on him

My immediate response to your read was to meta dive Transcend for the rest of the day phase.

What we're you expecting, me to hang off your every word townreading a player I scumread when the points you brought up were... actually pretty bad? Obviously I'm not going to blindly sheep this like I might in say a mash.

And saying I was disinterested in the read was wrong when I was actively trying to probe a better reasoning from you.

Also, I mentioned it in passing but I wasn't self conscious about my read on you but having you case me is funny lol.

Like that point in particular is completely just wrong anyway because you know from when we've talked postgame that I'm capable of reading how strongly you believe a read a town when I'm wolfing anyway and that ended up being a big thing with your Long Con read in bird mafia and etc. Saying I'm nervous because I want you to out the read is something you should already know can't be true tbh.

[Wiml]

Is there some obvious reason why you couldn't be?

I'm interested if he thinks I would just hard shield lock town a partner like that with no hesitation and if whatever nonsense illario keeps pulling with his random scumreads on me whenever I become a wagon is something he things can be partnered.

The answer is yes for the former but I don't think Nook has ever seen me treat a partner that way.

[Esooa]

pretty sure my reasons weren't bad lol

[Wiml]

pretty sure my reasons weren't bad lol

It's fundamentally wrong and seeing people just go "Oh yes good case" without saying why specifically they agree is icky.

[Esooa]

Wiml give me one good reason you are not voting Transcend.

Because this game is actually a significant improvement over both the wolf games of his I read today. His reads here aren't great but if you compare them to the other game where they're static and nonsensical (he's completary unable to explain read movements outside of vibes and etc) that I've started to come round to him being town.

this is basically exactly what I said and u came to agree so

Yeah

[ilario]

Wiml is pretty scummy.

is this ur first game with him?

i had a slight ping with him over something minor but ill give him time to catch up first, if hes town hes good at obv-towning himself

I'm not going to stop playing if I get pushed lol. What was the minor thing?

u seemed almost like u were dreading the fact that u popped up and had a lot of content to read. normally when im town and im in a lobby that i feel is pretty strong id be pretty happy if i came back to a lot of content since i enjoy going through it as town, as opposed to coming back to like half a page. whereas when im wolf i dread coming back to a lot of content because it just means theres a shit tonne of pages i have to now pretend to fake analyse.

given that you tend to put a lot of focus into analysing posts, eg. i always see you going through past games of people, i took it that you would have a more positive reaction to coming back to the thread.

Not really. I mean I wasn't expecting to come back to see people making 180 posts while I swept in what I assumed was going to be a light game (that was super dead while I was awake) but I don't *really* care it was just funny to be snarky.

Fwiw I've had a string of wolf games ruined by inactivity recently (town being so inactive that they became incredibly easy to sweep lol) so I feel the opposite way to you about activity here tbh.

did u just slip lol

lol idk if im starting to get confbiased on the wiml read but i can defs see what u mean when im reading this a second time

[Wiml]

Wiml give me one good reason you are not voting Transcend.

Because this game is actually a significant improvement over both the wolf games of his I read today. His reads here aren't great but if you compare them to the other game where they're static and nonsensical (he's completary unable to explain read movements outside of vibes and etc) that I've started to come round to him being town.

this is basically exactly what I said and u came to agree so

Yeah

Yes but the way you explained it was to be blunt bad and I only came round to it after putting in the work myself.

The only reason I put in that work was because I trusted your judgement but disliked your reasoning and felt like it in no way overshadowed how wolfy Trans had been up until that point.

You're forgetting that I really did not know Trans before this game nor the capabilities of his wolf game.

[Wiml]

Wiml is pretty scummy.

is this ur first game with him?

i had a slight ping with him over something minor but ill give him time to catch up first, if hes town hes good at obv-towning himself

I'm not going to stop playing if I get pushed lol. What was the minor thing?

u seemed almost like u were dreading the fact that u popped up and had a lot of content to read. normally when im town and im in a lobby that i feel is pretty strong id be pretty happy if i came back to a lot of content since i enjoy going through it as town, as opposed to coming back to like half a page. whereas when im wolf i dread coming back to a lot of content because it just means theres a shit tonne of pages i have to now pretend to fake analyse.

given that you tend to put a lot of focus into analysing posts, eg. i always see you going through past games of people, i took it that you would have a more positive reaction to coming back to the thread.

Not really. I mean I wasn't expecting to come back to see people making 180 posts while I swept in what I assumed was going to be a light game (that was super dead while I was awake) but I don't *really* care it was just funny to be snarky.

Fwiw I've had a string of wolf games ruined by inactivity recently (town being so inactive that they became incredibly easy to sweep lol) so I feel the opposite way to you about activity here tbh.

did u just slip lol

lol idk if im starting to get confbiased on the wiml read but i can defs see what u mean when im reading this a second time

No. It was a bad take and Esooa backtracked immediately and mostly said it for reactions.

[Esooa]

quote my post where I quoted Transcend's progression on LC and tell me what was bad about it

[Esooa]

I actually don't have a single read yet.

eh bad post

Like, she hasn't really done anything that's her town game YET. If Alexa gets going she'll be obvious town.

bad

Like, she hasn't really done anything that's her town game YET. If Alexa gets going she'll be obvious town.

Everything I do is my town game because I’m town

(I also agree I don’t think I’ve done anything AI yet if someone had a correct read on me it would be surprising or a crapshoot from numbers/probability odds)

Yes, and everyone that is townreading you that's not me has TMI.

I will then tunnel those individuals, and then complain about them once they flip town and take 0 blame.

Then proceed to lead town into an L.

ok this is kinda towny

ok i'm caught up

idk who a good vote is

ilario
3
38%
Voters: NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, alexa, Lime Coke

meh?

brad why are you voting ilario

i think ilario/alexa might be tvt and someone on the scum team (ender, lime, nanook) is poking at them

couldn't tell u which

due to my ridiculously high scum flip ratio idek if i've played as town with either ilario or alexa so this would be my first time sorting them in a forum setting lol

i've specced games w/ both of them as scum and they usually make it p deep if not endgame

I've explained 1 thing about her meta, when she's going to certain people (Illario, Esooa to an extent this game) trying to get them to townread her it's typically in her town meta. She works extremely hard on getting townread early and then solves. People have called it LAMIST but that's just what she does.

She'll use her vote multiple times but it's gonna be hard to track with this site. She's been verbally saying her votes though so basically treat it like EM forum games.

There's a few other things. Like, I've found her as town quickly in numerous games. She's not a hard town to find.

while this is probably valid have u ever been tricked by wolf!alexa?

i feel like her games would be v difficult to distinguish because she has extremely high wim as either align

[VOTE: lime coke] aubergine

brad why are you voting ilario

Because Illario does whatever he can to NOT townread me when he and I are town. Even when I'm obvious as fuck town through a WHOLE game, he'll keep me at null and refuse to move me.
This game he started off with a townread on me. That actually caught me off guard and pinged me.

dis post is yucky

Like, she hasn't really done anything that's her town game YET. If Alexa gets going she'll be obvious town.

due to my ridiculously high scum flip ratio idek if i've played as town with either ilario or alexa so this would be my first time sorting them in a forum setting lol

i've specced games w/ both of them as scum and they usually make it p deep if not endgame

I've explained 1 thing about her meta, when she's going to certain people (Illario, Esooa to an extent this game) trying to get them to townread her it's typically in her town meta. She works extremely hard on getting townread early and then solves. People have called it LAMIST but that's just what she does.

She'll use her vote multiple times but it's gonna be hard to track with this site. She's been verbally saying her votes though so basically treat it like EM forum games.

There's a few other things. Like, I've found her as town quickly in numerous games. She's not a hard town to find.

this was a rlly quick transition it almost feels unnatural

like just read over this

it's not bad it's towny

there's only one post relating to his LC read that I disagree with the read

I think LC is town but most the points here are valid

the process of having mixed reads on LC leaning wolf after catch-up>saying he doesn't know who to vote>exploring the wagon on his town read (illario) and disliking LCs play around it into voting him is good>actually going back to find posts to pull what he doesn't like feels like conviction/belief in the read I like

[Esooa]

what did you not agree with in this post? What was left out that made you later change your mind?

[TonyStarkPrime]

k I'm here to make posts. I was at a funeral on saturday and I'm going to another funeral today, sorry I'm not entirely around

[Esooa]

@MacDougall whart did you think of my wiml post

[TonyStarkPrime]

also there are people here who do not seem super up to date on how many times it's acceptable to be posting in an 11 player mountainous game

[Wiml]

quote my post where I quoted Transcend's progression on LC and tell me what was bad about it

I'm not quoting it because I have like 50 other things I need to respond to.

You were clearing a person who seemed to be a fairly capable wolf (just from the volume people were saying he could wolf at) for having read progression when that read "progression" also just looked like Trans just struggling with TMI that LC was town and seemed very out to tune compared to how Trans was actually approaching his LC read.

Add that to the fact that I reasonably strongly scumread Trans as well and I was very reluctant to just sheep you on your read when it was for such a petty reason.

Also ffs I know how to appease you and your meta reads if I actually wanted to as a wolf. We do this every game.

[TonyStarkPrime]

i think nanook is pretty towny tbh

[ilario]

@MacDougall question for ya

Saw we yeet wiml today and he flips wolf, who do you think is his partner?

Say alternatively he flips town, then whose the team?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Can people please shut up about their townreads? If you townread someone, don't say anything. Keep your townreads alive.

Only YOU can protect townreads.

this is a joke right

[TonyStarkPrime]

yeah

[TonyStarkPrime]

To be honest I have no idea how to read Ender, paging Mac/alison/somebody on that one

[Wiml]

what did you not agree with in this post? What was left out that made you later change your mind?

Outside of what I said there, I didn't disagree I just didn't find it compelling reasoning.

That's why I went to look for myself instead of blindly sheeping your judgement this time.

[TonyStarkPrime]

i also kinda think wiml is town too :P

[Esooa]

I just don't believe you saw what I posted, which is an extremely towny way of reading LC, you read MCM, where he has nothing close to to that, you disagreed, then you read mountainado, and then you agreed with it. That doesn't make sense.

[Wiml]

esooa is obviously town mac wtf are you doing there though

i'm gonna go for 30 minutes and if i get back and someone doesn't have a solid case on WIml but ppl keep voting him im gonna assume

1. he's being bussed and wolf

2. wolves are pushing him

it's a crapshoot what i assume in these 2 so good luck :~~~~) because the push on wiml seems awful to me but im slightly worried there's TMI

i'm gonna go for 30 minutes and if i get back and someone doesn't have a solid case on WIml but ppl keep voting him im gonna assume

1. he's being bussed and wolf

2. wolves are pushing him

it's a crapshoot what i assume in these 2 so good luck :~~~~) because the push on wiml seems awful to me but im slightly worried there's TMI

I literally explained it lol

you're not the one id suspect of TMI

Wiml i'm a bit baffled by how easily you've come to me being town this game ngl

like yes you've read me correctly as town in the past but not as easily as this game i don't think??

i'm going to look at your iso

Wiml i'm a bit baffled by how easily you've come to me being town this game ngl

You're forgetting that it took me something like 12 hours of posts from you to actually get there. I thought you were GTH a wolf the first few hours into the game and only came round after catching up in the morning.

ok but after mindmelding with esooa about me possibly being a wolf in the beginning of the game you then proceeded to fos her for shading me?

I'm still not actually sure wiml is a wolf anyways but hopefully it'll be more clear before EoD

I can just tell you why you're wrong tomorrow anyway.

do you think she's a wrong town then?

why do you think v!esooa would read you this poorly?

like the biggest reason i have to wolfread you is something off in that dynamic

fwiw if I were to say the wolfiest thing about Alexa it's that she changed her transcend read to town only once it was late enough she can claim credit for changing it without it actually doing much of anything

especially considering imo her reasons for town reading him were much worse than previously given reasons that weren't agreed on

to me the wolfiest thing about her has been her dropping her "I've never read wiml wrong ever" level townread on day 1 to sheep you even though you are far from clear.

Wiml i'm a bit baffled by how easily you've come to me being town this game ngl

And making posts like this when he is at l-2 feels like she is preparing to contribute to his mischop.

Her progression feels very wrong and sus.

im pretty sure mac is a wolf

his push on me is in good faith 0% of the time

i am voting him but im too lazy to go to vote button

you don't think the point I made about you dropping your godread on wiml based on nothing is ever in good faith?

yikes

i never said i had a godread on wiml

that was literally a joke

the explanation mark makes it clear he's a joke

yes i've read wiml correctly in all our games but he's always been town which is much easier than finding someone as wolf

Wiml/Mac could both be wolves tbh.

and yes. i don't care what people say. the alison kill is outing

Your D2 has been awful tbh.

cool you can die then

alexa/illario you wanted to me to quote where I felt like alexa was fishing for a reason to vote on me so here you are.

[TonyStarkPrime]

who then, are the wolves, tsp, I can here you asking

[TonyStarkPrime]

vote: Alexa

[ilario]

Why did it feel like she was fishing for a reason to vote you as opposed to trying to genuinely engage with you to decipher your alignment?

Her questions are more inquisitive as opposed to leading questions which is what people tend to use if they’re trying to “fish” for a vote.

If anything, mac looks more concerning from that quote sequence than alexa does.

[TonyStarkPrime]

also willing to still vote ilario

[ilario]

i also kinda think wiml is town too :P

Wanna talk me through ur thought process chief?

[TonyStarkPrime]

i also kinda think wiml is town too :P

Wanna talk me through ur thought process chief?

yeah, I read half a dozen of his posts, and I thought 'yeah that's towny enough for me to rep a townread in thread' and so I did

they're mostly the posts on this page

[Wiml]

I just don't believe you saw what I posted, which is an extremely towny way of reading LC, you read MCM, where he has nothing close to to that, you disagreed, then you read mountainado, and then you agreed with it. That doesn't make sense.

How quickly do you think I read games? (At least thoroughly). You know about the how many hours it usually takes me lol.

I also recall you making this late at night or at least when I wasn't really interested in doing more than a surface level dive.

I didn't really see progression like you were saying in either of Trans' games. I thought he had clearly taken a step up if wolf but that he clearly also struggled with making and pushing reads as a wolf and that was the major issue I had with him and the meta was initially validating that.

alexa had also given me the impression that the wolf game you'd linked was worthless for Trans' wolf meta tbh.

Also, I backtracked this later on after reading in more detail anyway so lol.

[TonyStarkPrime]

on the other hand I'm down to just sheep nanook when it comes to it

[Esooa]

I'm probably not budging on the transcend read tbh

I noticed what you said earlier and I think it's a pretty consistent trend throughout his posts.

My issue was that there was no cohesive progression. He was switching between saying that he thought LC was towntelling and then still tunneling him regardless? I really don't think the strength of the reads he expressed actually matched his actions at all and it reads to me more like poor handling of TMI that LC is town and feeling obliged to townread certain posts that LC made than genuine read progression.

I'm trusting your judgement for today though.

can u quote the thing from Transcend that made you think this

[Esooa]

Also who do you think is most likely a wolf right now Wiml?

[ilario]

on the other hand I'm down to just sheep nanook when it comes to it

so nanooks ur strongest tr i gather,

how do you feel about the other slots then, mac/essoa/lime/ender?

[TonyStarkPrime]

that said TRing me for town meta is stupid and anyone who's done it who knows me is probably a wolf unless it's nanook

[TonyStarkPrime]

on the other hand I'm down to just sheep nanook when it comes to it

so nanooks ur strongest tr i gather,

how do you feel about the other slots then, mac/essoa/lime/ender?

esooa feels pretty towny, lime apparently can't wolf, mac might be a wolf for a stupid reason I don't want to talk about, ender i dunno what to do

[ilario]

that said TRing me for town meta is stupid and anyone who's done it who knows me is probably a wolf unless it's nanook

Well I haven’t seen any other reason to suggest ur town from anyone

[Wiml]

To add to what I said before alexa, the fact that I was at L-2 and then you decided to flip your read on me (because the votes on me were so bad they had to be bus votes lmao no) at a time when it looked like Esooa might vote me and put me at L-1 and you having a town meta of accidentally quickhammering up until this point.... That's what I saw you trying to go for if a wolf.

[TonyStarkPrime]

that said TRing me for town meta is stupid and anyone who's done it who knows me is probably a wolf unless it's nanook

Well I haven’t seen any other reason to suggest ur town from anyone

yeah but you don't know me so sheep = acceptable

[ilario]

Honestly it just feels like it’s probably wiml/mac but I’ll keep an open mind about it Incase something changes