Halvøsen Ridge [MAFIA WIN]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm not buying that no wolf would vote me. I know that as wolf I always needed to have a good reason to be voting someone and what better than everyone's punching bag?

For me it was that you came in yesterday asking why fingersplints was a wagon but didn't actually seem interested in anybody's case. And then made two (2) posts in the first half of this day phase. I'm still catching up on the rest.

How do you feel about the current wagons?

[robyn]

I feel like lucy doesn't care about the way this EOD turns out. Like she does not feel invested at all in what's going to happen.

I'm just tired, I do care

Okay. What are your thoughts on Ender?

if he was scum his wagon would be harder, and he's been set up to be scum previously making him the easiest mislynch imo. ppl hard defend creature, I confuse people, marmot and jay can handle themselves with people defending them

[Marmot]

mfw my jjj town case and my ender vote are ignored

I skimmer the case

[NateTheLesser]

I think for Marmot it was that Creature didn't know Sean was townreading him? From a skim.

Yes

Why is that significant for you? Seems like something that a disengaged wolf could easily miss.

[Dyslexicon]

Ender w: Nate/Lucy/Rondo/Boq

Ender v: Jay/Boq/Creature/?

This could probably look different, but yeah

[Marmot]

I feel like lucy doesn't care about the way this EOD turns out. Like she does not feel invested at all in what's going to happen.

I'm just tired, I do care

Okay. What are your thoughts on Ender?

if he was scum his wagon would be harder, and he's been set up to be scum previously making him the easiest mislynch imo. ppl hard defend creature, I confuse people, marmot and jay can handle themselves with people defending them

What is your read of him, independent of other players in the game?

[Alison]

I feel like lucy doesn't care about the way this EOD turns out. Like she does not feel invested at all in what's going to happen.

I'm just tired, I do care

Okay. What are your thoughts on Ender?

if he was scum his wagon would be harder, and he's been set up to be scum previously making him the easiest mislynch imo. ppl hard defend creature, I confuse people, marmot and jay can handle themselves with people defending them

He's been a top wagon D1 and D2, but didn't go over because we wagoned town LHF instead. Even today he's been competing with a bunch of candidates for the exe, and people have townread him. I wouldn't characterize Ender's wagon as "easy".

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I would describe the task of getting votes on Ender to this point to be pulling teeth.

[NateTheLesser]

Alison you think Creature's town, or just not a priority for today?

[Marmot]

I think for Marmot it was that Creature didn't know Sean was townreading him? From a skim.

Yes

Why is that significant for you? Seems like something that a disengaged wolf could easily miss.

I'd imagine a disengaged wolf would have teammates that would talk about and notice these things. Sure the wolf team could be Creature/fingersplints/???, but even any other player listed here would pick up on things like that.

I'm not locking in a townread for it, but I think it's more townie than not.

[Alison]

Ender w: Nate/Lucy/Rondo/Boq

Ender v: Jay/Boq/Creature/?

This could probably look different, but yeah

I actually think if Ender is W, Rondo is likely town because of how careful Ender seems to be around Rondo. (He claims it's how he treats Rondo every game, but Rondo has refused to corroborate this and if Ender is wolf I'm just going to assume he was full of shit about that.)

I also think that an Ender W flip would suggest his wagon is mostly pure since I don't think mafia would feel compelled to bus Ender right now when they could easily justify a vote on Jay.

[NateTheLesser]

For the record I'd vote Ender over Jay if it came down to it.

[robyn]

I feel like lucy doesn't care about the way this EOD turns out. Like she does not feel invested at all in what's going to happen.

I'm just tired, I do care

Okay. What are your thoughts on Ender?

if he was scum his wagon would be harder, and he's been set up to be scum previously making him the easiest mislynch imo. ppl hard defend creature, I confuse people, marmot and jay can handle themselves with people defending them

What is your read of him, independent of other players in the game?

scum lean, but I see him as someone who plays scummy (as either alignment) with my anti consensus ideas

[Creature]

I no longer think Ender/Dyslexicon are in the same wolfteam. Looks too blatant.

[robyn]

I would describe the task of getting votes on Ender to this point to be pulling teeth.

fair tbh, I need to think

[robyn]

I was voting him yesterday but I don't think anything actually changed my mind, i'm just being contrarian, maybe

[Dyslexicon]

Ender w: Nate/Lucy/Rondo/Boq

Ender v: Jay/Boq/Creature/?

This could probably look different, but yeah

I actually think if Ender is W, Rondo is likely town because of how careful Ender seems to be around Rondo. (He claims it's how he treats Rondo every game, but Rondo has refused to corroborate this and if Ender is wolf I'm just going to assume he was full of shit about that.)

I also think that an Ender W flip would suggest his wagon is mostly pure since I don't think mafia would feel compelled to bus Ender right now when they could easily justify a vote on Jay.

Could be right about Rondo. Probably.

Not so sure on Boq for the last one. But PoE would be small imo.

[Alison]

Alison you think Creature's town, or just not a priority for today?

I don't have him as a lock clear, but I think he's townier than not. He hit some townie notes D1 and D2 and I don't really understand why he's insisting on voting off the people on his wagon rather than just slapping a vote on Jay/Ender if he's mafia (unless the team is exactly Jay/Ender/Creature which seems absurd).

Regardless of his alignment he certainly is not a priority for today. As mentioned before, I think Jay and Ender are both more likely to flip mafia, and have a good chance of breaking the game open if they do. A Creature red flip gets us nowhere; Jay/Ender red flip may very well solve the game by itself.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@NateTheLesser I still owe Creature a full reassessment, but my initial perception on Day 3 is that a Seanzie kill may point to a town Creature. Seanzie protected him pretty staunchly, while people like myself and a few others that have been anti-Creature much of the game are still here. I wonder if that represents an invitation for us to kill him without the same resistance.

I think it's more likely that the NK will aimed at direct threats, rather than removing protection for a mischop. Not that it couldn't serve both purposes.

Recalling this, Nate, but with a different question: if the NK is driven primarily by threats, then why does a Creature team kill Seanzie?

[NateTheLesser]

I think for Marmot it was that Creature didn't know Sean was townreading him? From a skim.

Yes

Why is that significant for you? Seems like something that a disengaged wolf could easily miss.

I'd imagine a disengaged wolf would have teammates that would talk about and notice these things. Sure the wolf team could be Creature/fingersplints/???, but even any other player listed here would pick up on things like that.

I'm not locking in a townread for it, but I think it's more townie than not.

But Marmot, if both Finger and Creature are giving town pings, that means my reads have been garbage.

[NateTheLesser]

Which sounds about average to be fair.

[Marmot]

I think for Marmot it was that Creature didn't know Sean was townreading him? From a skim.

Yes

Why is that significant for you? Seems like something that a disengaged wolf could easily miss.

I'd imagine a disengaged wolf would have teammates that would talk about and notice these things. Sure the wolf team could be Creature/fingersplints/???, but even any other player listed here would pick up on things like that.

I'm not locking in a townread for it, but I think it's more townie than not.

But Marmot, if both Finger and Creature are giving town pings, that means my reads have been garbage.

We definitely can't have that

[Boquise]

I think JJJ is town tbh

Why?

I really did think Wilgy would flip scum.
Okay. You aren't interested in understanding my thought processes then. You are interested in writing a case on me and framing what I say as scummy things tbh. If you are scum in this game, I will for sure nab you the next time you do it tbh!

I'm having a conversation and trying to explain where I am coming from -- because I'm not sure your responses relate directly to the points I am trying to make. I wouldn't bother with any of this if I wasn't interested in understanding you. Perhaps my tone is severe: I am frustrated by the state of the game and it bleeds through. This is the kind of thing that makes these interchanges problematic, unfortunately, but the thread is otherwise unmoving so whatever.

Because I think this post opens up a window to your thought process and the realness of your read on me. Because after this post, you tried to give me an olive branch:

I really did think Wilgy would flip scum.

I think this is really the crux of the matter, and if I understood better why this was your expectation I might be able to get somewhere.

Okay so here comes a lot of assumptions and expectations so bear with me.
So if you are scum, you are probably noticing that I am starting to bleed town in my answers, by me being frustrated too.
You could walk back your read here and attempt to pocket me. Or you could be ice cold scum and just say "die scum".

But you give me an olive branch, after opening up yourself, and after that olive branch, you still keep solving inside me under the assumption that I flip wolf. I think that is town indicative tbh

@Alison @Marmot

[RondoDimBuckle]

Ender w: Nate/Lucy/Rondo/Boq

Ender v: Jay/Boq/Creature/?

This could probably look different, but yeah

Not sure how I should feel about this

[Alison]

I think for Marmot it was that Creature didn't know Sean was townreading him? From a skim.

Yes

Why is that significant for you? Seems like something that a disengaged wolf could easily miss.

I'd imagine a disengaged wolf would have teammates that would talk about and notice these things. Sure the wolf team could be Creature/fingersplints/???, but even any other player listed here would pick up on things like that.

I'm not locking in a townread for it, but I think it's more townie than not.

I don't know if that's true, that the scum chat would have teammates that would talk about these things. I've been in a lot of games where the scum chat is simply dead, or where they mostly chat about fluff. I don't know that Seanzie townreading Creature is something that would be a hot topic of discussion in the wolf chat.

This is a nitpick though. I am positive on Creature still.

[Boquise]

Ender w: Nate/Lucy/Rondo/Boq

Ender v: Jay/Boq/Creature/?

This could probably look different, but yeah

I see. I am scum candidate regardless of Ender's flip tbh

[Dyslexicon]

Ender w: Nate/Lucy/Rondo/Boq

Ender v: Jay/Boq/Creature/?

This could probably look different, but yeah

Not sure how I should feel about this

I could take you out tbh. Alison is right

[Dyslexicon]

Ender w: Nate/Lucy/Rondo/Boq

Ender v: Jay/Boq/Creature/?

This could probably look different, but yeah

I see. I am scum candidate regardless of Ender's flip tbh

Yes tbh

[Boquise]

Not sure what to think of Lucy's "ah reasonable" reply to me but I am too tired to think

Dizzy I have been solvy today but you pushing me destroys my chances of getting NK'd tbh. That's pretty uncool imo

[Alison]

I think JJJ is town tbh

Why?

I really did think Wilgy would flip scum.
Okay. You aren't interested in understanding my thought processes then. You are interested in writing a case on me and framing what I say as scummy things tbh. If you are scum in this game, I will for sure nab you the next time you do it tbh!

I'm having a conversation and trying to explain where I am coming from -- because I'm not sure your responses relate directly to the points I am trying to make. I wouldn't bother with any of this if I wasn't interested in understanding you. Perhaps my tone is severe: I am frustrated by the state of the game and it bleeds through. This is the kind of thing that makes these interchanges problematic, unfortunately, but the thread is otherwise unmoving so whatever.

Because I think this post opens up a window to your thought process and the realness of your read on me. Because after this post, you tried to give me an olive branch:

I really did think Wilgy would flip scum.

I think this is really the crux of the matter, and if I understood better why this was your expectation I might be able to get somewhere.

Okay so here comes a lot of assumptions and expectations so bear with me.
So if you are scum, you are probably noticing that I am starting to bleed town in my answers, by me being frustrated too.
You could walk back your read here and attempt to pocket me. Or you could be ice cold scum and just say "die scum".

But you give me an olive branch, after opening up yourself, and after that olive branch, you still keep solving inside me under the assumption that I flip wolf. I think that is town indicative tbh

@Alison @Marmot

Thanks.

FWIW I think this post (ie. your read of Jay) is pretty townie.

[Boquise]

Ender w: Nate/Lucy/Rondo/Boq

Ender v: Jay/Boq/Creature/?

This could probably look different, but yeah

I see. I am scum candidate regardless of Ender's flip tbh

Yes tbh

Makes it easier for me to sleep tonight tbh

[Boquise]

I think JJJ is town tbh

Why?

I really did think Wilgy would flip scum.
Okay. You aren't interested in understanding my thought processes then. You are interested in writing a case on me and framing what I say as scummy things tbh. If you are scum in this game, I will for sure nab you the next time you do it tbh!

I'm having a conversation and trying to explain where I am coming from -- because I'm not sure your responses relate directly to the points I am trying to make. I wouldn't bother with any of this if I wasn't interested in understanding you. Perhaps my tone is severe: I am frustrated by the state of the game and it bleeds through. This is the kind of thing that makes these interchanges problematic, unfortunately, but the thread is otherwise unmoving so whatever.

Because I think this post opens up a window to your thought process and the realness of your read on me. Because after this post, you tried to give me an olive branch:

I really did think Wilgy would flip scum.

I think this is really the crux of the matter, and if I understood better why this was your expectation I might be able to get somewhere.

Okay so here comes a lot of assumptions and expectations so bear with me.
So if you are scum, you are probably noticing that I am starting to bleed town in my answers, by me being frustrated too.
You could walk back your read here and attempt to pocket me. Or you could be ice cold scum and just say "die scum".

But you give me an olive branch, after opening up yourself, and after that olive branch, you still keep solving inside me under the assumption that I flip wolf. I think that is town indicative tbh

@Alison @Marmot

Thanks.

FWIW I think this post (ie. your read of Jay) is pretty townie.

Thank you for your support in "get Boq NK'd" tbh

[Marmot]

I think JJJ is town tbh

Why?

I really did think Wilgy would flip scum.
Okay. You aren't interested in understanding my thought processes then. You are interested in writing a case on me and framing what I say as scummy things tbh. If you are scum in this game, I will for sure nab you the next time you do it tbh!

I'm having a conversation and trying to explain where I am coming from -- because I'm not sure your responses relate directly to the points I am trying to make. I wouldn't bother with any of this if I wasn't interested in understanding you. Perhaps my tone is severe: I am frustrated by the state of the game and it bleeds through. This is the kind of thing that makes these interchanges problematic, unfortunately, but the thread is otherwise unmoving so whatever.

Because I think this post opens up a window to your thought process and the realness of your read on me. Because after this post, you tried to give me an olive branch:

I really did think Wilgy would flip scum.

I think this is really the crux of the matter, and if I understood better why this was your expectation I might be able to get somewhere.

Okay so here comes a lot of assumptions and expectations so bear with me.
So if you are scum, you are probably noticing that I am starting to bleed town in my answers, by me being frustrated too.
You could walk back your read here and attempt to pocket me. Or you could be ice cold scum and just say "die scum".

But you give me an olive branch, after opening up yourself, and after that olive branch, you still keep solving inside me under the assumption that I flip wolf. I think that is town indicative tbh

@Alison @Marmot

I do remember this case very well, and is one of the recent points that has me leaning town on Jay.

I don't see scum!Jay attempting to back off of his case on you while Dizzy is simultaneously pushing him pretty hard unless you/Jay are exactly teammates.

[Dyslexicon]

I don't know if that's true, that the scum chat would have teammates that would talk about these things. I've been in a lot of games where the scum chat is simply dead, or where they mostly chat about fluff. I don't know that Seanzie townreading Creature is something that would be a hot topic of discussion in the wolf chat.

This is a nitpick though. I am positive on Creature still.

I agree with this.

I'm not that confident on Creature being town. I think his whining about wagons every game day has been a bit overblown. And he's been doing it while at the same time considered some of those wagons. Just felt weird. I haven't seen this version of Creature before tbh

A town flip on Creature would be worse for the game than a town flip on Ender though.

[Dyslexicon]

@Alison I'm a little bit puzzled about you thinking a red flip on Creature will give us nothing. Wouldn't that also blow up the game? I don't think he has that many likely teammates, does he?

[Boquise]

Dizzy getting close to be replaced as my in-game bestie tbh

[Dyslexicon]

I do remember this case very well, and is one of the recent points that has me leaning town on Jay.

I don't see scum!Jay attempting to back off of his case on you while Dizzy is simultaneously pushing him pretty hard unless you/Jay are exactly teammates.

Which is the world we're probably in if Ender is about to flip town here. Recall Boq's null reading of Jay. I won't be here to try and do something about that if this is the case though. But remember this please

[NateTheLesser]

@NateTheLesser I still owe Creature a full reassessment, but my initial perception on Day 3 is that a Seanzie kill may point to a town Creature. Seanzie protected him pretty staunchly, while people like myself and a few others that have been anti-Creature much of the game are still here. I wonder if that represents an invitation for us to kill him without the same resistance.

I think it's more likely that the NK will aimed at direct threats, rather than removing protection for a mischop. Not that it couldn't serve both purposes.

Recalling this, Nate, but with a different question: if the NK is driven primarily by threats, then why does a Creature team kill Seanzie?

I don't think the NK says anything about Creature either way. If creature's a wolf I think it would be more about his teammates than him.

[Dyslexicon]

Dizzy getting close to be replaced as my in-game bestie tbh

[Creature]

Is Ender coming back?

[Boquise]

I think JJJ is town tbh

Why?

I really did think Wilgy would flip scum.
Okay. You aren't interested in understanding my thought processes then. You are interested in writing a case on me and framing what I say as scummy things tbh. If you are scum in this game, I will for sure nab you the next time you do it tbh!

I'm having a conversation and trying to explain where I am coming from -- because I'm not sure your responses relate directly to the points I am trying to make. I wouldn't bother with any of this if I wasn't interested in understanding you. Perhaps my tone is severe: I am frustrated by the state of the game and it bleeds through. This is the kind of thing that makes these interchanges problematic, unfortunately, but the thread is otherwise unmoving so whatever.

Because I think this post opens up a window to your thought process and the realness of your read on me. Because after this post, you tried to give me an olive branch:

I really did think Wilgy would flip scum.

I think this is really the crux of the matter, and if I understood better why this was your expectation I might be able to get somewhere.

Okay so here comes a lot of assumptions and expectations so bear with me.
So if you are scum, you are probably noticing that I am starting to bleed town in my answers, by me being frustrated too.
You could walk back your read here and attempt to pocket me. Or you could be ice cold scum and just say "die scum".

But you give me an olive branch, after opening up yourself, and after that olive branch, you still keep solving inside me under the assumption that I flip wolf. I think that is town indicative tbh

@Alison @Marmot

I do remember this case very well, and is one of the recent points that has me leaning town on Jay.

I don't see scum!Jay attempting to back off of his case on you while Dizzy is simultaneously pushing him pretty hard unless you/Jay are exactly teammates.

I was going to say that JJJ would probably not try to bus me if we were wolfmates, but then I realised that I would pretty much encourage a light bus to make me fire up a bit so yeh moot moot point tbh

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have sort of tabled my read on Boquise. I can't say I have a "town read", but I do acknowledge that some of my suspicions of him were centered around myself (e.g., my chart and his dealings with Wilgy). There's a lot of potential for bias embedded in that, and I wouldn't be confident about chopping him.

[Dyslexicon]

I don't think the NK says anything about Creature either way. If creature's a wolf I think it would be more about his teammates than him.

Full thoughts on Ender?

[Marmot]

I do remember this case very well, and is one of the recent points that has me leaning town on Jay.

I don't see scum!Jay attempting to back off of his case on you while Dizzy is simultaneously pushing him pretty hard unless you/Jay are exactly teammates.

Which is the world we're probably in if Ender is about to flip town here. Recall Boq's null reading of Jay. I won't be here to try and do something about that if this is the case though. But remember this please

Boq just posted a towncase of Jay though. When was it null tbh

[Marmot]

(Well, he quoted one that he'd psoted earlier)

[Boquise]

I do remember this case very well, and is one of the recent points that has me leaning town on Jay.

I don't see scum!Jay attempting to back off of his case on you while Dizzy is simultaneously pushing him pretty hard unless you/Jay are exactly teammates.

Which is the world we're probably in if Ender is about to flip town here. Recall Boq's null reading of Jay. I won't be here to try and do something about that if this is the case though. But remember this please

People are so allergic to null reads smh
I won't force em if I don't have em

[Boquise]

I had null on JJJ for a long time but I also think I talked about JJJ that explained why it was null tbh

[Creature]

I need to go, there's backup issues I need to sort and me on this forum won't help.

IF I FLIP DO NOT GO AFTER DIZZY OR RONDO.

You can think about them if we actually get to f3, otherwise fuck off.

THERE IS AT MOST ONE WOLF IMO IN CREATURE/NATE/BOQ

I think there's a wolf in Nate but I don't think that's his partners if so, and if he's town I don't think more than one of Boq/Creature is wolf.

I THINK THERE'S AT LEAST ONE WOLF IN ALISON/JAY

This might be wrong and I'll feel stupid if I am but I believe it.

MARMOT/FINGER/LUCY PROBABLY HAS AT LEAST ONE WOLF IN IT

I am constantly revising this last part so eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

That's my legacy.

I could be way off but I feel that in my jellicles.

You all go and flip a wolf for me. I'm outtie.

[Marmot]

Is Ender coming back?

He left a legacy post, so probably not.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't think the NK says anything about Creature either way. If creature's a wolf I think it would be more about his teammates than him.

That's kinda what I am getting at. As you've suspected Creature have you given mind to potential teammates?