The Syndicate

Marcher Jovian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:08 am

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:54 am @Marcher Jovian what are your thoughts on nutella, Turnip Head, Sloonei and Soneji?

nutella—her pushes have felt kinda sketch, like opportunistic and ill-founded. but pushing on the maybe they’re masons thing shows like that extra degree of thinking and uncertainty about the game. Need to think whether it’s good enough to give her space and not vote her today
Turnip Head—I remember not enough about this person. They confidently pushed MR yesterday based on meta reads. People with meta on TH, how confident/brazen are they as a wolf? A bit of a wagon earlier today, tedxtr liked the iso. I ought to check this iso
Sloonei—this post summed up my thoughts, http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... ya#p620996 . Wagon comp looks kinda weird. Probably falls under “player good enough they ought to get another day to give them a chance to clear themselves”
Soneji—Posted very little. The few posts they’ve made have been underwhelming. [insert thoughts that are illegal in MU but I don’t know the exact etiquette about on Syndicate]

Adding this on: nutella cleared out the KZA wagon. Not voting her today

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] walk me through your case on nutella, esp. what you think of her play today

I think KZA wagon was just a bad early wagon and that it would have dissolved sooner or later

Marcher Jovian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:45 pm @Sloonei walk me through your case on nutella, esp. what you think of her play today

she's bad. i'm beginning to explode. stand by

Last night carot brought up an excellent point about nutella that hasn't received much attention at all.

Hmmn I think I see where this is going
Nice nice nice

Waiting for motobot is like waiting for Beggbow all over again lol

I'm with you until I die [mention]motobot[/mention] ! Drwilgy gotta go

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:47 pm Last night carot brought up an excellent point about nutella that hasn't received much attention at all.

What was it

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:34 am Hey gang, questions for everyone, answer what you feel like answering it would be nice.

—> What’s your general impression of the game? What are your « big picture reads » of the game right now?

—> How do you feel about the threadstate? Who’s benefitting from it? Who’s maintaining it and who’s trying to change it?

I can understand that some people don’t have the time/energy/motivation to move heaven and earth right now but hey, we signed up to play together so let’s town it up and play together. <3

wolfy post

moth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:11 am

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:09 am

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:28 am Another + sign for Turnip is that, if he were a wolf with Wilgy, he already had the Jovian set-up to push at that time, so pulling a Radishes read made no sense whatsoever. If he wanted to save a wolf, he would've done so by coming back to his Jovian read, imo.

I know this is taking pre-flip into account but I feel like having that dissonance in my head w/r/t Wilgy wolf and TH taking those actions might heavily interfere with my read on him, for no reason, even if Wilgy were to flip town. My brain works in many mysterious ways.

I think with the gamestate of yesterday wolves try to push Master Radishes so he doesn't have the time to become townier and keep Marcher Jovian as futur mislims
Same for DrWilgy if he's town

zero consideration as to if any wolves preferred you as the elim?

also seconding this from moth


seems like a potential perspective slip from carot

nutella doing some tunnella things hmmn hmmmn hmmmn

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:46 pm

Marcher Jovian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:45 pm @Sloonei walk me through your case on nutella, esp. what you think of her play today

she's bad. i'm beginning to explode. stand by

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:47 pm Last night carot brought up an excellent point about nutella that hasn't received much attention at all.

:doubt:

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:02 pm nutella doing some tunnella things hmmn hmmmn hmmmn

I was really back to mostly townreading you until that lol

Sloonei can't possibly think I'm scum here if he's town

therefore he's scum

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:58 pm

moth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:11 am

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:09 am

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:28 am Another + sign for Turnip is that, if he were a wolf with Wilgy, he already had the Jovian set-up to push at that time, so pulling a Radishes read made no sense whatsoever. If he wanted to save a wolf, he would've done so by coming back to his Jovian read, imo.

I know this is taking pre-flip into account but I feel like having that dissonance in my head w/r/t Wilgy wolf and TH taking those actions might heavily interfere with my read on him, for no reason, even if Wilgy were to flip town. My brain works in many mysterious ways.

I think with the gamestate of yesterday wolves try to push Master Radishes so he doesn't have the time to become townier and keep Marcher Jovian as futur mislims

Same for DrWilgy if he's town

zero consideration as to if any wolves preferred you as the elim?

also seconding this from moth


seems like a potential perspective slip from carot

Oh I get what moth meant now lol
I meant "Marcher Jovian and me as futur mislims"

id like carot to talk more in depth about what turnip did that looked like shading on his townread of nutella.

what specifically did turnip shade nutella on? where? when?

looking forward to what the "thing" is though because most of carot's points on me were extremely weak and forced and could apply more to herself

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:03 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:58 pm

moth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:11 am

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:09 am

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:28 am Another + sign for Turnip is that, if he were a wolf with Wilgy, he already had the Jovian set-up to push at that time, so pulling a Radishes read made no sense whatsoever. If he wanted to save a wolf, he would've done so by coming back to his Jovian read, imo.

I know this is taking pre-flip into account but I feel like having that dissonance in my head w/r/t Wilgy wolf and TH taking those actions might heavily interfere with my read on him, for no reason, even if Wilgy were to flip town. My brain works in many mysterious ways.

I think with the gamestate of yesterday wolves try to push Master Radishes so he doesn't have the time to become townier and keep Marcher Jovian as futur mislims

Same for DrWilgy if he's town

zero consideration as to if any wolves preferred you as the elim?

also seconding this from moth


seems like a potential perspective slip from carot

Oh I get what moth meant now lol
I meant "Marcher Jovian and me as futur mislims"

No. wrong. Im asking why youve not mentioned day 1 being v/v if thats actually true. and its implications. your reads dont seem based on the idea scum were on radish and you. or how many. or why. or anything actually

moth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:03 pm id like carot to talk more in depth about what turnip did that looked like shading on his townread of nutella.

what specifically did turnip shade nutella on? where? when?

? Tell me what posts you're referring to because I don't get it

moth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:05 pm

Spoiler: show

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:03 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:58 pm

moth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:11 am

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:09 am

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:28 am Another + sign for Turnip is that, if he were a wolf with Wilgy, he already had the Jovian set-up to push at that time, so pulling a Radishes read made no sense whatsoever. If he wanted to save a wolf, he would've done so by coming back to his Jovian read, imo.

I know this is taking pre-flip into account but I feel like having that dissonance in my head w/r/t Wilgy wolf and TH taking those actions might heavily interfere with my read on him, for no reason, even if Wilgy were to flip town. My brain works in many mysterious ways.

I think with the gamestate of yesterday wolves try to push Master Radishes so he doesn't have the time to become townier and keep Marcher Jovian as futur mislims

Same for DrWilgy if he's town

zero consideration as to if any wolves preferred you as the elim?

also seconding this from moth


seems like a potential perspective slip from carot

Oh I get what moth meant now lol
I meant "Marcher Jovian and me as futur mislims"

No. wrong. Im asking why youve not mentioned day 1 being v/v if thats actually true. and its implications. your reads dont seem based on the idea scum were on radish and you. or how many. or why. or anything actually

Who are you talking about when you say v/v?
Did you see my readlist? I don't understand what you're not understanding

2 nights ago you claimed turnip was shading nutellA

and turnip had a v read on nutella but was shading her

First thing I want to do is address my Marcher read in more depth. They've been a popular suspect but I've maintained a firm town read on them for a while. I wanted to re-examine that read to see if it still holds up on closer inspection. So let us begin.

One of the first things that stands out, which has been negatively received by others, is that Marcher is asking questions but not doing anything with them. I hate that accusation because it's one I face regularly. But I asked myself if I could agree with it in this case. I don't think I do. Marcher asks plenty of questions early n:This is a non-exhaustive list. I think these are all good questions, and whether or not Marcher goes anywhere immediately with them is of secondary concern at best here. I like the inquisitiveness and think the mindset that is indicated in several of their early questions is one that is more likely to belong to a civilian. Their early progression on Tony is one that I like in particular; Marcher challenges outed wolf's read on Tony, and then later comes up with a wholly independent challenge of Tony: The whole thing looks like Marcher was trying to keep tabs on a wide range of subjects/players and wasn't afraid to get their hands dirty. I like that.


Some early mechanical chatter. "Mafia talk about mechanics" is a completely overdone argument. I'm acknowledging the possibility and moving on. I do not find it compelling but did not want to ignore this completely.


I like the moth read well enough and think it is again a reflection of an independent and honest thought process. Marcher has suggested elsewhere that they've paid attention to folks involved in the Champs tournament, so I have absolutely no trouble believing that they would bring a meta read of moth into this game. This read does not need to exist if it's insincere.


Strong follow-up when Lissa gives a weak answer to a question. I like, and wave this post mockingly in the face of anyone who tries to argue that Marcher is not doing anything with their questions.

This sequence, however, is entirely unhelpful. What is "meh" about Lissa's posts? What does "meh" mean as far as he alignment is concerned? This is just dismissive for no real purpose.

I could say the same about this as well, but while I'm here I want to note that I think this kind of emotional outburst is more indicative of a civilian than a mafioso.

This is better. Marcher appears to have collected themselves and is ready to dive back in refreshed. I think their approach on Day 2 has reflected a player who is conscientious of the way Day 1 played out.

As a final point to solidify what is now a more confident town read on Marcher, I like their progression on ted today. After Day 1, Marcher was leading the charge against Ted because of Ted's leading the charge on them earlier on. But as Day 2 has progress, ted has evidently shown something that Marcher likes, and they've reversed course a bit. If Marcher is mafia they can easily just maintain that ted OMGUS, at least as a background thing. But to state outright that they feel "much better" about Day 2 ted is, once again, suggestive of a player who is earnestly trying to think things through in this game.

My lingering concern is not related to Marcher directly. Having done this ISO, I realize I don't really have any idea why people have suspected Marcher (outside of ted's Day 1 case), so I don't know how much of this ISO is a response, direct or indirect, to the case(s) against Marcher. That is something else to examine.

tl;dr: I do not condone a vote for Marcher Jovian at this time.

nutella can't possibly think I'm scum here if she's town

therefore she's scum

Carot's Excellent Point™:

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:18 pm Carot's Excellent Point™:

Spoiler: show

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:56 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:48 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:35 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:34 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:31 pm Marcher Jovian is town.

if you are town i should probably sheep this

if you are town can you be more obvious plz

I've been more obvious elsewhere. I'm too tired to be obvious right now. If you really want me to be obvious just go back and read some of my earlier posts and pretend they're right now.

nah most of your earlier posts suck too

I think you had like a few posts that were more townish than not that made me put you in my town pile but I don't currently remember what they were and the vast majority of your posts are blah

You might wanna look at this http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 36#p620336

this tells me you did not even read my post.

I acknowledged that I did have you in my town pile for a period of time. I didn't remember why.

there is no contradiction, and even if there was one, well you know what you say about hypocrisy.

moth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:10 pm 2 nights ago you claimed turnip was shading nutellA

moth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:11 pm and turnip had a v read on nutella but was shading her

omg lol this
alright let's look at this sequence for moth

Context: I was scumreading nutella & Turnip Head
Turnip Head was townreading nutella
nutella was townreading moth

At some point I post this

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:33 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:46 pm

bronana wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:59 pm nutella, why were you so confident MR was a wolf?

I was only kinda confident and then I found the dunya compatibility and I got myself into a preflip world tunnel

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:10 pm was nice playing with you tutuu!


@Carotenoid I really believed radish was going to be a hit, I think that's evident in my iso. And yeah I have waffled quite a bit on you/jovian, I'm gonna try not to tunnel either of you too hard today because my last tunnel was wrong. it's good to see you putting in actual work but you are definitely on my shortlist for today

Turnip Head answers this:

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:35 am ^ Gotta love the red tape. as Internal Affairs combs through your correspondence looking for the last remaining shreds of your humanity to backstab you with

I read that as Look at this nutella bad

After this Turnip Head goes being a townie is hard and moth answers agressively-ish. nutella goes moth what are you saying it doesn't make sense in a condescending-ish way

So I end up posting this:

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:53 am Turnip Head shading nutella their townread and nutella shading moth one of her strong townread is wow

Meaning that I find it suspicious that two people I scumread starts to turn around on their strong townreads ish when they're getting attention. That's like, something that happened, but definitely not *the* thing that's making me scumread them at the moment so I would appreciate that you take the time to actually read me please

Ehhhh

These attempts to gush townreads on caro for posting a link???

gimme a fuckin break. this was cw to flipped town. how is there zero interest in flipping this fuckin slot. shes even wolfy and making half assed pushes

sloonei, if it will make you feel better I will try and find the time today (I'm doing a gazillion things) to find the period of the game that made me put you in green. but the fact that I don't remember my reasoning, and that everything you've said since then has set off alarm bells in my head, is a bad sign.

Alright I'm going to eat and ISO nutella after

I dont understand how none of the caro voters have any interest in that wagon today whatsoever

I'm actually baffled that sloonei thought that was a good point. Like what on earth

at least a policy elim on wilgy makes a little bit of sense

moth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:28 pm at least a policy elim on wilgy makes a little bit of sense

What makes you think it's policy?

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:23 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:18 pm Carot's Excellent Point™:

Spoiler: show

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:56 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:48 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:35 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:34 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:31 pm Marcher Jovian is town.

if you are town i should probably sheep this

if you are town can you be more obvious plz

I've been more obvious elsewhere. I'm too tired to be obvious right now. If you really want me to be obvious just go back and read some of my earlier posts and pretend they're right now.

nah most of your earlier posts suck too

I think you had like a few posts that were more townish than not that made me put you in my town pile but I don't currently remember what they were and the vast majority of your posts are blah

You might wanna look at this http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 36#p620336

this tells me you did not even read my post.

I acknowledged that I did have you in my town pile for a period of time. I didn't remember why.

there is no contradiction, and even if there was one, well you know what you say about hypocrisy.

My point, which may or may not have been carot’s point, is that you town-read me when everyone else was town-reading me, but then conveniently forget why when everyone else started suspecting me.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:37 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:23 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:18 pm Carot's Excellent Point™:

Spoiler: show

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:56 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:48 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:35 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:34 pm

if you are town i should probably sheep this

if you are town can you be more obvious plz

I've been more obvious elsewhere. I'm too tired to be obvious right now. If you really want me to be obvious just go back and read some of my earlier posts and pretend they're right now.

nah most of your earlier posts suck too

I think you had like a few posts that were more townish than not that made me put you in my town pile but I don't currently remember what they were and the vast majority of your posts are blah

You might wanna look at this http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 36#p620336

this tells me you did not even read my post.

I acknowledged that I did have you in my town pile for a period of time. I didn't remember why.

there is no contradiction, and even if there was one, well you know what you say about hypocrisy.

My point, which may or may not have been carot’s point, is that you town-read me when everyone else was town-reading me, but then conveniently forget why when everyone else started suspecting me.

I don't recall my read of you being influenced by others. I recall independently deciding you were town based on something and laying off of you. Then you started looking bad again.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:39 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:37 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:23 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:18 pm Carot's Excellent Point™:

Spoiler: show

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:56 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:48 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:35 pm

I've been more obvious elsewhere. I'm too tired to be obvious right now. If you really want me to be obvious just go back and read some of my earlier posts and pretend they're right now.

nah most of your earlier posts suck too

I think you had like a few posts that were more townish than not that made me put you in my town pile but I don't currently remember what they were and the vast majority of your posts are blah

You might wanna look at this http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 36#p620336

this tells me you did not even read my post.

I acknowledged that I did have you in my town pile for a period of time. I didn't remember why.

there is no contradiction, and even if there was one, well you know what you say about hypocrisy.

My point, which may or may not have been carot’s point, is that you town-read me when everyone else was town-reading me, but then conveniently forget why when everyone else started suspecting me.

I don't recall my read of you being influenced by others. I recall independently deciding you were town based on something and laying off of you. Then you started looking bad again.

No I didn’t.

Found it. Post #869, seemingly because we were mindmelding a bit on tedxtr being weird about jovian.

I'll have to think about how much I care about that anymore

i think nutella is town.

i really wanted to be right about her d1 with the whole radish fiasco, but her tone did a 180 when she put effort into the game and i see the same confidence and arrogance (and spontaneity) town nutella usually has

i'll get there.

sloonei is also town, so stop tunneling him nutella.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:43 pm sloonei is also town, so stop tunneling him nutella.

My read on you was going to be 99% reliant upon your read on me today, so dunya is town.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:32 pm

moth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:28 pm at least a policy elim on wilgy makes a little bit of sense

What makes you think it's policy?

common sense

moth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:45 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:32 pm

moth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:28 pm at least a policy elim on wilgy makes a little bit of sense

What makes you think it's policy?

common sense

maybe spell it out for the people who don't have any of that

what makes wilgy a policy elim over any other lurker?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:44 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:43 pm sloonei is also town, so stop tunneling him nutella.

My read on you was going to be 99% reliant upon your read on me today, so dunya is town.

lock it in. we're gonna win this shit.

moth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:45 pm

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:32 pm

moth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:28 pm at least a policy elim on wilgy makes a little bit of sense

What makes you think it's policy?

common sense

I made a case. Surely, you might call it weak / disagree with it, but it's definitely not a policy?

Do you think he's town / he didn't have scummy content?

[VOTE: moth] aubergine

Not really a fan of his tone lately or his push on carot which seems disingenuous from my POV

If "he" is the wrong pronoun for moth I apologize