RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

[Sloonei]

I think I like Scotty's attempt to get reads, even when he is uncertain of how to go about it. He's trying to expand his Day 1 repertoire and it appears mostly genuine to me. I also don't get the wrong vibes from Sloonei's interrogation tactic. He observed a specific thing (Scotty's read of Quin) that he found interested, and then harnessed that into a an exchange that stands a chance of producing a more complete read.

Sloonei came in saying he read Quin as bad "same as me" but then quoted examples after the fact, as if he stole cookies from the cookie jar and then replaced them with some pieces of cardboard he found in the garage so no one would know he ate the cookies preemptively.

What is your opinion of Quin, JJJ?

I do not get this analogy. Also you never said a word about why you might suspect Quin, just that you did. Why should it be a mark against me that I am able to substantiate this read we supposedly share?

By answering with "same as you" you are affirming that I am reading him bad because 'I can't remember what he said'. But then you come in backing it up after the fact, like you had a reason initially, you just lied about it.
It's Like me saying now that I'm suspicious of Quin because he killed my cat...I just chose not to mention that in my initial read.

Oh, yeah I was just trying to see if you'd vote for him without any given reason.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What is your opinion of Quin, JJJ?

Sloonei brought up two posts -- one about MP and one about me. The post he made about MP is actually one that I think looks good for him -- he was confronted with Beck's seemingly arbitrary suspicion of MP, was given vague criteria to search for, he searched for it, and he came up with only one moment he thought might apply (this resonates with me because I followed him on that step-for-step in real-time without knowing it). The other post about me featured a logical connection that I didn't quite follow though so I'd like to hear from him about that.

The worst I can say about Quin is that he isn't as involved as he usually is. I wouldn't feel inspired voting for him.

[Scotty]

Hey Sloonei, want to vote Bass the Clever with me?

[Sloonei]

Hey Sloonei, want to vote Bass the Clever with me?

I do not. Why are you voting for him?

[Scotty]

Hey Sloonei, want to vote Bass the Clever with me?

I do not. Why are you voting for him?

Lol

Yeah, I'm fine changing my vote from Quin based on this back and forth with Sloonei just in case I'm being bamboozled. Quin is one of 5 people I could vote for for almost interchangeable lack of content reasons. Let's move on to the one that JJJ has brought up better reasons for.

leetic

[Epignosis]

If I've suspected you every game, good or bad, why did you suggest I'm forcing myself to suspect you?

The accusation you rendered bears that appearance. It was a negative assessment of my posts supported by no references to anything -- bad adjectives in a vacuum. If I don't know why you feel that way, I have ask myself whether you really suspect me or you're trying to suspect me.

I'm not sure yet whether "you suspect me every game good or bad" is accurate. The "bad" example was The Office, but you didn't speak ill of me until I was dead and I couldn't say anything. If you're bad now, I think this'd be the first example of you actually addressing me directly with fake suspicion. The scenario being imagined is that your tendency to suspect me when you're good has become frequent enough that it could be associated with your good self -- thus generating a reason to assume that posture when you're bad.

Well, for what it's worth, I don't pay attention to what I usually do. I asked you to name instances of when I thought you were bad to shut down the idea that I always think you're bad and therefore felt compelled to suspect you. I didn't realize I had that kind of track record.

[Sloonei]

Hey Sloonei, want to vote Bass the Clever with me?

I do not. Why are you voting for him?

Lol

Yeah, I'm fine changing my vote from Quin based on this back and forth with Sloonei just in case I'm being bamboozled. Quin is one of 5 people I could vote for for almost interchangeable lack of content reasons. Let's move on to the one that JJJ has brought up better reasons for.

leetic

Was there any reason to vote Bass, or were you just throwing a name out there to see how I would respond?

[Epignosis]

You're leaving out what else I said about you.

I don't see the relevance of the other post you've restated here.

It's relevant because I'm trying not to do what I did the last time.

Can you name which games?

Off-hand I can name five: Trees (both town), Battlestar Galactica (both town), Triskaidekaphobia (both town), and The Office (you bad, me independent), Economics (both town). Whether you suspected me in Bullets Over Broadway (you independent, me town) is debatable.

You didn't suspect me to my memory in Talking Heads or the 2015 GOC. I think that's all the games we've played in together.

If I've suspected you every game, good or bad, why did you suggest I'm forcing myself to suspect you?

The law of averages tells me that you're bad this time and I'm right.

What did you do last time?

Will you vote anyone to save yourself today?

Is that your way of answering my question?

[G-Man]

DEBBIE DOWNER

“Please tell me what in the literal Hell your dysfunction is,” screamed a voice as soon as Debbie Wasserman Schultz answered her phone. The congresswoman fumbled the things she carried as she leapt to shut her office door.

“Sidney, pl-“

“Don’t you dare give me any more excuses,” the voice on the other end of the phone railed. “Tell me why all of our operatives activated their panic signals within fifteen minutes of each other.”

“We have not been in contact with any of the operatives since this morning’s check-in,” Debbie replied. “The morning meeting Trump called must have something to do with it. Our low-level sources are looking into it but no one seems to know anything yet. He’s never played his cards this close to the vest before.”

“That means it’s some kind of closed-door operation.”

“Do you want me to initiate the extraction protocol?”

“No, Debbie. Extraction is pointless if we cannot reach our operatives. They know a communications blackout means they are on their own. They’ve made it this far with minimal help, so they’re going to have to get past this issue and keep their cover through election day.”

“Do you think we should notify O’Donnell?”

“Please,” the man scoffed. “If word gets out that he infiltrated the Trump campaign everyone at MSNBC will treat him like a damn war hero. He’ll manage.”

“But he’s a link to us, Sidney.”

“No, Debbie, he’s a link to you. And if he squeals, you know full well that she will protect me. You’re not in a position of strength anyway. Your primary is only days away. It would be a shame for this to blow up in your face before or even after the primary. Another controversy would be a real career-killer, don’t you think?”

“Yes, sir,” Debbie murmured.

“Good. Manage the situation and you just might get a deputy cabinet position for your efforts. She still believes in you even if I don’t. Call me with good news tonight or else.”

Debbie set her phone down on her desk. Her hands trembled as she pulled out her lunch. She stared at it for a few moments before deciding she had lost her appetite.

[Scotty]

You're leaving out what else I said about you.

I don't see the relevance of the other post you've restated here.

It's relevant because I'm trying not to do what I did the last time.

Can you name which games?

Off-hand I can name five: Trees (both town), Battlestar Galactica (both town), Triskaidekaphobia (both town), and The Office (you bad, me independent), Economics (both town). Whether you suspected me in Bullets Over Broadway (you independent, me town) is debatable.

You didn't suspect me to my memory in Talking Heads or the 2015 GOC. I think that's all the games we've played in together.

If I've suspected you every game, good or bad, why did you suggest I'm forcing myself to suspect you?

The law of averages tells me that you're bad this time and I'm right.

What did you do last time?

Will you vote anyone to save yourself today?

Is that your way of answering my question?

Lol I guess you're not gonna save yourself then?

Interesting move, Cotton. Let's see how that works out for you.

[Scotty]

OH! I thought the day was over. Silly Scotty.

[G-Man]

OH! I thought the day was over. Silly Scotty.

Sorry if my post caused you any confusion. As a host, I've been known to add mid-phase posts for the sake of the overarching narrative.

[Sloonei]

SCOTTYYYY

Hey Sloonei, want to vote Bass the Clever with me?

I do not. Why are you voting for him?

Lol

Yeah, I'm fine changing my vote from Quin based on this back and forth with Sloonei just in case I'm being bamboozled. Quin is one of 5 people I could vote for for almost interchangeable lack of content reasons. Let's move on to the one that JJJ has brought up better reasons for.

leetic

Was there any reason to vote Bass, or were you just throwing a name out there to see how I would respond?

[Sloonei]

oh bass isn't even in this game, he's in that other one. I am going to work now. I'll leave my vote on quin. My eye is still on him and still on Scotty. More people need to say more things.

[insertnamehere]

I side more with Epi and Rico than JJJ and Scotty, although I do agree with No True Scotsman that Sloonei has been pushing Quin a wee bit too hard for my liking.

[insertnamehere]

Everyone else: I don't expect you to read our text walls. Once we've had our chat and I am satisfied with whatever conclusion I come to I'll summarize it.

My suspicion of you has grown, sir. Why wouldn't you expect people to read what you've posted and form their own opinions and instead rely on your summary?

Why would we go to the trouble of researching something and forming our own opinions when we can get a nice tidy, completely unbiased five word long summary from FOX News or Breitbart that tells us how to feel about things?

You've given us very little so far other than to criticize the play of someone you have declared a town read for.

If you think my methods are unhelpful, then take a look in the freaking mirror dude. This is useless.

The latter part is CWAC (which stands for Contributing Without Actually Contributing btw). You're saying you won't do something, but not why. Others being unhelpful is no excuse to have said behavior.

So this is the post that has Leetic tied for first? Come on, attempting to defend me and attacking JJJ's gameplay without really throwing any legit shade on him does not a baddie make.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So this is the post that has Leetic tied for first? Come on, attempting to defend me and attacking JJJ's gameplay without really throwing any legit shade on him does not a baddie make.

If you understand what he even said then please share.

[Quin]

Everyone else: I don't expect you to read our text walls. Once we've had our chat and I am satisfied with whatever conclusion I come to I'll summarize it.

My suspicion of you has grown, sir. Why wouldn't you expect people to read what you've posted and form their own opinions and instead rely on your summary?

I agree with this. But at the same time, what JJJ said about 'being satisfied with the conclusion' makes me feel good. It tells me he's not just trying to shake off the attention.

I'm uncertain what you mean by this Quin. Could you expand on how yellow leads you to orange?

By the post alone, it suggests that you're more interested in keeping the dialogue going, therefore keeping yourself in the spotlight, rather than trying to defuse what was at the time probably the most worthwhile arguments going on.

[Quin]

The truth is I felt like your post of reads was one of those "substance for the sake of substance" posts, and your read on Quin came off to me as very forced and completely meaningless. So I decided to throw an accusation out there and goad you into acting on your "suspicion" of Quin, which you've done even though you have no reason to distrust Quin or trust me. How bogus is this?

All I'm getting from this is that a significant part of why you are currently voting for me is because of Scotty's actions, and that is not ideal.

vote Sloonei

[Quin]

Can someone else comment on my interaction with Sloonei? Am I missing something here? I'm getting the heebeejeebies right now

I'm not sure what you'd be missing. You both seem to suspect Quin, which I don't really agree or disagree with. He's had less significant a presence in this game than usual which I suppose isn't ideal. I'm not sure why Sloonei associated you two as team mates, so he could talk about that. Hey! Sloonei!

I've got a presentation coming up that's stressing me out quite a bit, and I've sort of forced myself into this other goings-on on my other forum. Not a lot I can say or do to satiate your concern but that's what it is, unfortunately.

has anybody else notices that I go from having the vocabulary of a linguistics professor to a 5th grader over the course of the day?

[Sloonei]

I side more with Epi and Rico than JJJ and Scotty, although I do agree with No True Scotsman that Sloonei has been pushing Quin a wee bit too hard for my liking.

What would be to your liking, and when has anyone said that I'm pushing Quin too hard?

[Sloonei]

The truth is I felt like your post of reads was one of those "substance for the sake of substance" posts, and your read on Quin came off to me as very forced and completely meaningless. So I decided to throw an accusation out there and goad you into acting on your "suspicion" of Quin, which you've done even though you have no reason to distrust Quin or trust me. How bogus is this?

All I'm getting from this is that a significant part of why you are currently voting for me is because of Scotty's actions, and that is not ideal.

vote Sloonei

Is there more to this vote than a straightforward OMGUS?

[Quin]

Hey Beck, I hereby accuse you of using (trying to use) a fake random vote as a means of comfortably getting your feet into the scary cold water that is this game. I've done it before. What say you?

I say nay!

I voted for MP7 for one post in particular -- would be curios to see if you see what I see.

But let's say I did vote for MP7 to ease myself into the game, what does that make me?

(There's a right answer and a wrong answer, Jimmy.)

I'm looking at all of his four posts pretty intently, but I'm not seeing anything at all. The very most I can come up with is his 'I'll post more strategies later' thing and I'm pretty sure that's a political joke.

Everyone else: I don't expect you to read our text walls. Once we've had our chat and I am satisfied with whatever conclusion I come to I'll summarize it.

My suspicion of you has grown, sir. Why wouldn't you expect people to read what you've posted and form their own opinions and instead rely on your summary?

I agree with this. But at the same time, what JJJ said about 'being satisfied with the conclusion' makes me feel good. It tells me he's not just trying to shake off the attention.

I didn't really like these two posts from Quin, for the record. In the top one he makes sure to keep his distance from actually accusing MP of anything, but leaves the door open a crack, and in the second one he manages to take both sides of a case against Jay in consecutive sentences.

1. I didn't accuse MP of being suspicious because I don't think he's suspicious. There was no crack, either. Not sure where you're looking

2. Fair enough.

linki: My reason for the voting is right there. You're basing your vote on me off of Scotty, not me. That's bad.

[Marmot]

I gotta be horny, brothas and sistas. I skimmed right through those wallposts of semantics bw Rico and JJJ. I think I got the gist, but I just don't care really. It's like a couple of sea lions fighting over a rock. It's a rock- there are other rocks.

I love me a good horny Scotty.

Epi? He's Epi. I don't see anything out of the ordinary with Epi. Yet. Why does he have 2 votes?

MM- wow this guy I actually read...as good this game. I don't know what it is honestly. He's not as zany, he's more direct in his accusations. It's just atypical Mm day 1 behavior, and I'm liking it I think. Not that I don't like silly Mm behavior, but that I also like this guy as well. Enough so that I'm not gonn vote him today.

You don't know why I have two votes. MM is one of those votes, and you say he was direct in his accusations. Can you explain why MM voted for me?

That's a good point right there. Well-played Epignosis.

Epi? He's Epi. I don't see anything out of the ordinary with Epi. Yet. Why does he have 2 votes?

MM- wow this guy I actually read...as good this game. I don't know what it is honestly. He's not as zany, he's more direct in his accusations. It's just atypical Mm day 1 behavior, and I'm liking it I think. Not that I don't like silly Mm behavior, but that I also like this guy as well. Enough so that I'm not gonn vote him today.

You don't know why I have two votes. MM is one of those votes, and you say he was direct in his accusations. Can you explain why MM voted for me?

Well, not with reasons, no. But one of his first posts in the game:

My first impressions.

Jay, Beck, MP are civilians.

Epignosis and Ricochet are mafia.

Inform me with his actions. I don't really know why he viewed you and Rick as bad, but he did, which i am thinking is more town-like than not.

I followed it up with reasons. I have reasons I tell you, lot's of them!

The law of averages tells me that you're bad this time and I'm right.

Scotty and Quin are scum partners.

Woah, I TOTALLY missed this.

Wtf?

I disagree. I think Scotty is mafia, and Quin is not his partner.

[Marmot]

I voted for Epignosis.

I'm voting you for missing the draft.

I wasn't planning on being there.

[Sloonei]

Hey Beck, I hereby accuse you of using (trying to use) a fake random vote as a means of comfortably getting your feet into the scary cold water that is this game. I've done it before. What say you?

I say nay!

I voted for MP7 for one post in particular -- would be curios to see if you see what I see.

But let's say I did vote for MP7 to ease myself into the game, what does that make me?

(There's a right answer and a wrong answer, Jimmy.)

I'm looking at all of his four posts pretty intently, but I'm not seeing anything at all. The very most I can come up with is his 'I'll post more strategies later' thing and I'm pretty sure that's a political joke.

Everyone else: I don't expect you to read our text walls. Once we've had our chat and I am satisfied with whatever conclusion I come to I'll summarize it.

My suspicion of you has grown, sir. Why wouldn't you expect people to read what you've posted and form their own opinions and instead rely on your summary?

I agree with this. But at the same time, what JJJ said about 'being satisfied with the conclusion' makes me feel good. It tells me he's not just trying to shake off the attention.

I didn't really like these two posts from Quin, for the record. In the top one he makes sure to keep his distance from actually accusing MP of anything, but leaves the door open a crack, and in the second one he manages to take both sides of a case against Jay in consecutive sentences.

1. I didn't accuse MP of being suspicious because I don't think he's suspicious. There was no crack, either. Not sure where you're looking

2. Fair enough.

linki: My reason for the voting is right there. You're basing your vote on me off of Scotty, not me. That's bad.

I do not understand how that would make me bad if it was true.

[Quin]

Hey Beck, I hereby accuse you of using (trying to use) a fake random vote as a means of comfortably getting your feet into the scary cold water that is this game. I've done it before. What say you?

I say nay!

I voted for MP7 for one post in particular -- would be curios to see if you see what I see.

But let's say I did vote for MP7 to ease myself into the game, what does that make me?

(There's a right answer and a wrong answer, Jimmy.)

I'm looking at all of his four posts pretty intently, but I'm not seeing anything at all. The very most I can come up with is his 'I'll post more strategies later' thing and I'm pretty sure that's a political joke.

Everyone else: I don't expect you to read our text walls. Once we've had our chat and I am satisfied with whatever conclusion I come to I'll summarize it.

My suspicion of you has grown, sir. Why wouldn't you expect people to read what you've posted and form their own opinions and instead rely on your summary?

I agree with this. But at the same time, what JJJ said about 'being satisfied with the conclusion' makes me feel good. It tells me he's not just trying to shake off the attention.

I didn't really like these two posts from Quin, for the record. In the top one he makes sure to keep his distance from actually accusing MP of anything, but leaves the door open a crack, and in the second one he manages to take both sides of a case against Jay in consecutive sentences.

1. I didn't accuse MP of being suspicious because I don't think he's suspicious. There was no crack, either. Not sure where you're looking

2. Fair enough.

linki: My reason for the voting is right there. You're basing your vote on me off of Scotty, not me. That's bad.

I do not understand how that would make me bad if it was true.

More specifically, you are using Scotty's actions as a means to vote for me, without any insight as to whether what Scotty is doing is civvie or baddie behaviour. Had he been lynched and flipped bad, you might have a reason to look at him as inspiration to vote me, but as it is, he has not, and therefore you are bad.

[Marmot]

I wonder if Golden is going to change his vote from the current random one.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I do not understand how that would make me bad if it was true.

I can see an argument for "bad Sloonei" and "Sloonei with priorities out of alignment" in this scenario, either of them before "logical Sloonei". If you used the Quin vote to coerce Scotty and didn't like Scotty's responses, then it'd seem Scotty is your suspect more than Quin is your suspect.

Which of the two do you suspect most? Do you maintain that they are team mates?

[Sloonei]

What is your read on Scottu, Quirinius?

[Sloonei]

I do not understand how that would make me bad if it was true.

I can see an argument for "bad Sloonei" and "Sloonei with priorities out of alignment" in this scenario, either of them before "logical Sloonei". If you used the Quin vote to coerce Scotty and didn't like Scotty's responses, then it'd seem Scotty is your suspect more than Quin is your suspect.

Which of the two do you suspect most? Do you maintain that they are team mates?

I could go either way on the two of them. They're both mild scum reads right now. As always I'm not willing to name two people as scum partners when neither one has flipped, but I did feel like Scotty's wording of his "gun to head" read on Quin to be somewhat awakward and, as I had already started to form a scum read on Quin (unstated in the thread at that time) I decided to act on it and see what sort of a response I would get. The result was that I'm still unsure about them both. It is Day 1 and prior to this morning I had not interacted with this game at all.

[Quin]

I wonder if Golden is going to change his vote from the current random one.

I started to read into this and then I realised...you're the marmot.

linki: Let me get back to you. I have to take my brother to an exam.

[Boomslang]

Holy crap this game escalated quickly. Frankly, I don't know what to make of the Rico/JJJ fight. I think Scotty has the right idea with his sea lions and rocks metaphor. I also love how Scotty's read of me is literally just high Gonna start with something comprehensible: leetic's very confusing accusation of JJJ.

I'd like to hear what you guys think of leetic's accusation of me. It looks to me like he just pulled it out of his arse, but I'm the target so bias and stuff.

So this is the post that has Leetic tied for first? Come on, attempting to defend me and attacking JJJ's gameplay without really throwing any legit shade on him does not a baddie make.

If you understand what he even said then please share.

I think what he means is... actually, I've spent five minutes looking at this and can't figure it out. Leetic claims JJJ won't do something, but the post he's criticizing doesn't have JJJ claiming an action. And we haven't gotten any clarification on it. Adding a vote to leetic for the moment for extra pressure.

I do think inh rushing to leetic's defense is a bit suspicious. Leetic's post may be hamfisted shade, but it was a clear attempt at shade.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I do not understand how that would make me bad if it was true.

I can see an argument for "bad Sloonei" and "Sloonei with priorities out of alignment" in this scenario, either of them before "logical Sloonei". If you used the Quin vote to coerce Scotty and didn't like Scotty's responses, then it'd seem Scotty is your suspect more than Quin is your suspect.

Which of the two do you suspect most? Do you maintain that they are team mates?

I could go either way on the two of them. They're both mild scum reads right now. As always I'm not willing to name two people as scum partners when neither one has flipped, but I did feel like Scotty's wording of his "gun to head" read on Quin to be somewhat awakward and, as I had already started to form a scum read on Quin (unstated in the thread at that time) I decided to act on it and see what sort of a response I would get. The result was that I'm still unsure about them both. It is Day 1 and prior to this morning I had not interacted with this game at all.

Do you understand why Quin might find it dubious that Scotty's behavior plays any role in your vote for him?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

For me, the trouble with leetic's accusation of me is less that it's confusing -- townies are confusing sometimes. It's more that it came on the heels of Epignosis stating his suspicion of me. The opportunism is almost blatant. I see this progression:

1. Townie getting pressured by someone else, perhaps another townie (me and Epi respectively).
2. Baddie takes opportunity to promote that negative climate for the accused by throwing shade -- making up whatever he has to make up.

I say "perhaps another townie" in #1 because it strikes me as more likely that a baddie would be capitalizing on a townie being wrong than openly jumping on a bandwagon generated by his partner. For this reason I think leetic and Epignosis would make unlikely team mates if either of them is bad.

[Sloonei]

I do not understand how that would make me bad if it was true.

I can see an argument for "bad Sloonei" and "Sloonei with priorities out of alignment" in this scenario, either of them before "logical Sloonei". If you used the Quin vote to coerce Scotty and didn't like Scotty's responses, then it'd seem Scotty is your suspect more than Quin is your suspect.

Which of the two do you suspect most? Do you maintain that they are team mates?

I could go either way on the two of them. They're both mild scum reads right now. As always I'm not willing to name two people as scum partners when neither one has flipped, but I did feel like Scotty's wording of his "gun to head" read on Quin to be somewhat awakward and, as I had already started to form a scum read on Quin (unstated in the thread at that time) I decided to act on it and see what sort of a response I would get. The result was that I'm still unsure about them both. It is Day 1 and prior to this morning I had not interacted with this game at all.

Do you understand why Quin might find it dubious that Scotty's behavior plays any role in your vote for him?

I'd like him to explain why it makes me bad. I'd also like to hear what he thinks of scotty.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'd like him to explain why it makes me bad. I'd also like to hear what he thinks of scotty.

So you're not satisfied with the reason he already provided?

[Boomslang]

For me, the trouble with leetic's accusation of me is less that it's confusing -- townies are confusing sometimes. It's more that it came on the heels of Epignosis stating his suspicion of me. The opportunism is almost blatant. I see this progression:

1. Townie getting pressured by someone else, perhaps another townie (me and Epi respectively).
2. Baddie takes opportunity to promote that negative climate for the accused by throwing shade -- making up whatever he has to make up.

I say "perhaps another townie" in #1 because it strikes me as more likely that a baddie would be capitalizing on a townie being wrong than openly jumping on a bandwagon generated by his partner. For this reason I think leetic and Epignosis would make unlikely team mates if either of them is bad.

I agree with that read of unlikely partnership. And six posts (roughly three hours) between Epi's and leetic's posts can be seen as opportunistic. Interestingly, leetic also pressured MM to clarify his reasons for an Epi vote in his very next post. I doubt a baddie teammate would show two bits of positive association back to back, especially on Day 1.

[Sloonei]

I'd like him to explain why it makes me bad. I'd also like to hear what he thinks of scotty.

So you're not satisfied with the reason he already provided?

I am not, but I'm also at work and don't have time to read anything so it's possible I've overlooked something

[Quin]

I'd like him to explain why it makes me bad. I'd also like to hear what he thinks of scotty.

So you're not satisfied with the reason he already provided?

I am not, but I'm also at work and don't have time to read anything so it's possible I've overlooked something

I think you should look again once you get home, because I don't think it's possible for me to be any clearer.

[Quin]

But yes, I'll entertain you with a read on Scotty. Give me a little bit of time.

[Golden]

My "town read" is no stronger than your "not town read" or whatever you want to call it. I leaned one way and you leaned another. Golden's point is that if MM's behavior is not alignment-indicative, then it is hard to understand why you'd contest one read while making an opposing read (Golden can clarify this if I am misinterpreting). They're both illogical in that hypothetical universe where it's NAI.

That's not the point I was making, but it is accurate to how I'm perceiving Rico, and it's an equally true representation of how Rico's accusations and his own reads are at odds with each other.

What I don't like is that rico appears to find you suspicious for giving a townread for something that he declares NAI, even though he knows full well different people give townreads for different reasons. I told him that the substance of my accusation is that he should recognise that just because he disagrees with your townread, does not mean he should assume you are lying about it, and that the question is whether or not he believes you to be genuine. Now, in his responses to me, he seems to have backtracked a bit, both suggesting that he doesn't find you suspicious or read you as bad (even though, to me, the clear implication was that you and MM were a team together) and he says 'why wouldn't I believe that Jay believed his read?' which I don't understand at all, because that's entirely my point.

Maybe I need to read Rico back again, but to me it feels like he's tying his shoelaces together and getting himself and his points confused at every turn. Feels like he made up a suspicion that now he can't talk his way out of.

By the way rico, you seem to be disappointed that I'm 'ignoring meta', but I'm not really a meta fiend. I don't believe people catch me with meta (they are very good at mislynching me based on meta arguments, but I don't think I've seen anyone catch me as a baddie using meta for five years.) I don't believe people catch many people with meta. It can be used very well, but using it well is situational and relatively rare. The Mafiachamps only reinforced this for me, when I played two games where I had crystal clarity about what was going on because I lacked any meta-glasses to put me on the wrong path.

[Golden]

Also, the trump tweets might be a game mechanic so I have no intention of judging Rico on that point one way or the other until we see what happens after day 1.

[Sloonei]

Hey Beck, I hereby accuse you of using (trying to use) a fake random vote as a means of comfortably getting your feet into the scary cold water that is this game. I've done it before. What say you?

I say nay!

I voted for MP7 for one post in particular -- would be curios to see if you see what I see.

But let's say I did vote for MP7 to ease myself into the game, what does that make me?

(There's a right answer and a wrong answer, Jimmy.)

I'm looking at all of his four posts pretty intently, but I'm not seeing anything at all. The very most I can come up with is his 'I'll post more strategies later' thing and I'm pretty sure that's a political joke.

Everyone else: I don't expect you to read our text walls. Once we've had our chat and I am satisfied with whatever conclusion I come to I'll summarize it.

My suspicion of you has grown, sir. Why wouldn't you expect people to read what you've posted and form their own opinions and instead rely on your summary?

I agree with this. But at the same time, what JJJ said about 'being satisfied with the conclusion' makes me feel good. It tells me he's not just trying to shake off the attention.

I didn't really like these two posts from Quin, for the record. In the top one he makes sure to keep his distance from actually accusing MP of anything, but leaves the door open a crack, and in the second one he manages to take both sides of a case against Jay in consecutive sentences.

1. I didn't accuse MP of being suspicious because I don't think he's suspicious. There was no crack, either. Not sure where you're looking

2. Fair enough.

linki: My reason for the voting is right there. You're basing your vote on me off of Scotty, not me. That's bad.

I do not understand how that would make me bad if it was true.

More specifically, you are using Scotty's actions as a means to vote for me, without any insight as to whether what Scotty is doing is civvie or baddie behaviour. Had he been lynched and flipped bad, you might have a reason to look at him as inspiration to vote me, but as it is, he has not, and therefore you are bad.

Is this it? Because my interaction with Scotty had very little, if anything at all, to do with my vote for you. That was all about getting a read on Scotty and maybe, in the future, the two of you as teammates if that becomes applicable. But my mind on you was made up before any of that, as much as early Day 1 reads can be made up.
He might be bad, you might be bad, or you could both be good. I dunno. But my early read tells me I should try voting doe you right now and see how it goes.

[Golden]

The truth is I felt like your post of reads was one of those "substance for the sake of substance" posts, and your read on Quin came off to me as very forced and completely meaningless. So I decided to throw an accusation out there and goad you into acting on your "suspicion" of Quin, which you've done even though you have no reason to distrust Quin or trust me. How bogus is this?

Interesting - this could hold merit.

[Golden]

If I can't catch up at all before EoD d1 I'll probably ask for a replacement.

I signed up because you did MP. No replacement! I don't care if you don't read the thread and vote based on avatar, you're in this with me!

[Golden]

I'm not liking this conscious effort to manipulate me, Sloonster. I'm sorry you don't like my reads. It's something new I'm trying.

Why don't you like it? Wouldn't you say that setting up a trap and seeing if you fall into it or not is frequently a civilian thing to do?

[Golden]

I wonder if Golden is going to change his vote from the current random one.

No, because it wasn't actually random.

[Golden]

I could see either Epi or Scotty as bad, but probably not together.

I think an Epi/Rico team is still well possible.
I think a Scotty/Quin team is also well possible.

That's me for now.

[Marmot]

I wonder if Golden is going to change his vote from the current random one.

No, because it wasn't actually random.

Rather, it was actually random. You just happened to be satisfied with it.

I thought what Sloonei did would be fun too.

I randomised who my first vote would be. Epignosis, apparently.

Fine with me, though, because I find him coming off worst in the Jay/Rico exchange.