Meaningful interaction -
JJJ with
Roxy
Mafia is feeling like a chore this morning, but I think this needs to be done.
There is this exchange with JJJ which I think looks pretty relevant given Roxy and BR were low posters.
Roxy wrote:JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Btw, I think it's very interesting how Jay started talking about making cases right after the second role was handed out. Which is interesting since the game was pretty much a blank state at that point. Though to be fair, he did say he had nothing at that point.
That could indicate an alignment change. If a player who has done nothing gets a new role and suddenly starts being proactive, it might mean a townie who became mafia, or vice-versa. Just a theory.
the validity of your assertion here is debatable. i'll leave you and others to explore the notion that my Day 0 conduct was indicative of an alignment change, and offer my input when the content demands it. however, i find myself more interested in the
implications of this theory you've proposed. based on what you saw from me in Day 0, which side of that theory do you find more plausible? that i was town and became scum, or that i was scum and became town?
the distinction is obviously important.[size=150p my current role ought to mean a great deal more to everyone than my previous role.[/size]
I found Dragon's post a little fluffy bc it really stated nothing as her/his points cancelled each other out.
You reply however twitched my nose a bit.
MovingPictures07 wrote:JaggedJimmyJay wrote:one unfortunate note, at least for me:
the phases here will apparently be ending at inopportune times for me. i'll be leaving for work hours before the lynch deadlines, and i have no access to this game at work. i don't work at a desk, and moreover even when i am at a computer this site is blocked there. i've checked. i might be able to get involved on my phone a tiny bit, but i can't make promises. so most of my involvement in this game is going to have to be in the first half of day phases; i've no choice.
of course, that problem might be alleviated some if this game will be employing a hammer. will lynches be immediate upon reaching a majority vote, or are the deadlines fixed?
I've never seen a game here where the deadlines weren't fixed; the player with the most votes at deadline will be lynched. I have no reason to believe this will not be the case, but the hosts can clarify for sure.
This is not wholly accurate - sometimes secrets or role abilities will stop/switch a lynch. No hammer vote has even been used here.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Dragon D. Luffy wrote:JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Some players like to stay in the shadows when they're town.
rest assured, i don't like to stay in the shadows when i'm anything.
i think the most fundamental and simple means of scumhunting is merely to
post a lot. a high-activity thread is a bigger challenge for scum teams than a low activity thread, obviously. and it isn't just because there is more content to assess -- it's also because real-time communication is more difficult for players with a reason to second-guess the things they say. and when post counts/content slack in an obvious way, it can be very exposing.
of course many experienced scummers have learned to cope with this. but it's still beneficial. so i love to post constantly, and when the content allows it provide thorough analysis.
I do not think your theory about high posters will work here. We have our teasured high posting players who post the same irregardless of alignment.
I often think high posters are baddies trying to control the thread - its a fine line. But I wil never think a high poster has less to hide - been burned by too many high posters lol
Catching up now- I am a few pages behind.
I will add I get emotional irregardless of alignment when wagon'ed or under pressure - Sockadoodle is right.
I don't know what Roxy actually means here but it definitely comes across as throwing a bit of dirt at JJ
Roxy wrote:Jimmy jj- I quoted what I did bc I found you suspicious for posting that we should appreciate you more bc of your new role. ofc you would say that - everyone would but for me it is the fact you have to qualify yourself with that statement.
And she goes on... Roxy looks to be painting a big bullseye on JJ's back:
Roxy wrote:JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Roxy wrote:Jimmy jj- I quoted what I did bc I found you suspicious for posting that we should appreciate you more bc of your new role. ofc you would say that - everyone would but for me it is the fact you have to qualify yourself with that statement.
i didn't mean you should
appreciate me more. i meant you should care about my current role more than my previous role. because my previous role is irrelevant to this game.
Again you are qualifying - why? All roles are relevant in this game. Why should I appreciate you more? I am already skimming al the iso stuff if that has something to do with it then I am sorry.
What is iso what does it mean? It reads like a suspicions list but only one at a time.
Also fyi the rainbow lists are strange. Why do they have color? Why can't you just list them in order of suspicion? Why are you painting targets by mentioning your most trusted?
And she is throwing some harsh words at JJ (which she later apologises for), actually at this point I'm already wondering why I'm bothering with this, JJJ looks very clean. It makes no sense at all that Roxy would go after a teammate this hard this early when he otherwise looks so clean.
[quote="Roxy"]Answers in color - btw anyone can pull a post out of context and spin it to make it look good or bad.
[quote="JaggedJimmyJay"]looking at Roxy's 10 posts for anything intriguing...
NOTE: there are few points in this post where i pose a question for Roxy. a neutral observer might think they know the answer she'll provide, and if so i ask that you DO NOT say it. at least not until after she has responded. that has happened a couple times now -- it's ideal to allow a person to answer questions directed at them before sharing your own perspective. please don't give them answers before they even have to think about it. thanks.
This I found quite hilarious 
[quote="Roxy"][quote="Golden"][quote="JaggedJimmyJay"][quote="Golden"]My thoughts so far - a few newbies (DDL, JJJ, sanmateo, sloonei) are running straight into a drive by lynch of one of them. Not that I support that, I just feel like it's what you risk by generating so much discussion here on day one.[/quote]
if our conduct to this point has been that unusual by Syndicate standards, i would urge caution in those who'd perceive it negatively by default. "generating so much discussion on Day 1" is honestly exactly how i'd describe the most productive town approach (indeed, i truly struggle to imagine it being perceived as inherently suspicious). if it's abnormal here, very well. i look forward to seeing the reception we get from the other regulars.[/quote]
I agree that discussion is the most productive approach. But I didn't mean people would find it inherently suspicious, and don't want to discourage it from occurring. Rather, just that drive by votes can happen here (especially on day one), and visible people are easier targets to manufacture a case on. Right now, I think you guys are already in a place where it would be very easy for others to come in and make the day one conversation only about the four of you, and guarantee by doing that that one of you would be lynched.
I just wanted to get in and discourage that from occurring before it did. If others come in and begin to form opinions about the four of you, perhaps it will begin to help us all form opinions about a wider range of people.[/quote]
I agree and I will not vote for a new player on Day 1.
I do not see the harm in discussing them though obv.[/quote]
this might be an interesting statement. Golden's prediction of a drive-by lynch proved eerily correct -- and he ended up the victim of that himself. so Roxy wasn't wrong to agree with the assertion. but her stated refusal to vote for a new player on Day 1 is still striking. in so doing she immediately eliminated 6 players from candidacy, 4 of whom were highly active in the game and providing plenty of content to potentially be viewed with suspicion. so i ask you Roxy: why not vote for one of us?
its my standard practice, unlike some on this site, to give the new people to our site a day or so to acclimate before I vote or kill them as the case may be. I am not the only one who does this sort of thing.
MP is the opposite (or used to be until this game) he would go after new people the first day and push hard for their lynch overwhelming and derailing the thread with it.
[quote="Roxy"]High posters make it harder to find their true thoughts in walls-o-texts epsecially if they just pull quotes and slap a couple of sentences after each to make it seem like they are trying. Making a reread far less likely to happen by some players. Low posters have nothing to hide behind in their few posts and usually respond when directly questioned. So feel free to question any player and guage them on their responses and not the quanity of their posts. Quality > Quanity any day imo.[/quote]
this may just amount to philosophical/cultural differences, but when i think someone makes a point that is fundamentally wrong it could be viewed with suspicion. this blanket criticism of high-volume posting is a means of discouraging an active game thread, which is beneficial to anti-town players in essentially any possible Mafia setup regardless of rules or roles. this is made especially true when she endorses low-volume posters instead. i agree with her that pure quality beats pure quantity, but i would assert that the best case is always quality AND quantity.
I disagree and you should not be surprised. You and MP are overwhelming the thread trying to control everything and everyone. Making it very hard to keep up. If someone disagrees with a point you or someone on your rainbow list who you deem good then you inundate them with iso posts and rainbow lists. Your blanket criticism of low posters is discouraging and condescending. Sorry I do not have the spare time you have as I am a working adult with bills to pay - in order to pay bills I have to work. Work takes me away from mafia bc my boss likes when I work and not play games. I work 7 days a week. I have a life outside of work that is not an easy one right now. I am not looking for sympathy I am however asking for some compassion for those that cannot be here as many hours of the day as you are able to. Just bc I do not have a million posts does not mean I am not trying.
[quote="Roxy"][quote="Turnip Head"][quote="JaggedJimmyJay"]I think it's pretty dangerous that people are taking the notion that one of the 5 players to kickstart the game MUST be scum as a foregone conclusion. That encourages a narrower focus of suspicion not only in Day 1, but in all ensuing days until the alleged scum is identified.
There's more to Mafia than mere probability.[/quote]
I agree.
Consequentially, I'm voting for Golden. I think he's bad news this game. 
[/quote]
This vote vote twitched my nose badly - its still twitching :o
This is your second in game post and the first on topic post. You have given no. reason or clarity for your vote - classic drive by - why?[/quote]
off the top of my head, the only player i can recall Roxy expressing suspicion of in any significant way was Turnip Head. here's the start of that. we'll see if my memory serves me poorly as i continue.
TH is not playing normal idc if he is changing his style I had him pegged as bad day 2 in the champions game. I have played and hosted TH so I feel like I can judge his style better than you.
[quote="Roxy"][quote="Turnip Head"]I guess the difference is I'm being obviously un-TH like and Golden feels like he's trying to hide it.
I can elaborate when I get home tonight but if you're interested in looking into it just read his filter.[/quote]
I for one cannot wait for this elaboration.
I feel the opposite about Golden.[/quote]
Roxy's suspicion of TH is at least in part driven by her very different read on Golden. i think this is a fair reason to be suspicious of TH, particularly given the abruptness of his vote. i wasn't that suspicious myself, but i don't struggle to imagine a townie genuinely feeling differently.
and your point here is...?
[quote="Roxy"]I do find it very odd that you did not single a new player out, make a case and vote. Its been your norm for so long!
Is this a new strategy you are trying with this game?[/quote]
this bit was directed at MP. it bears the appearance of something at least mildly accusatory in implication, but it isn't at all accusatory in language. so that's something Roxy could talk about. what was your perspective of MP when you made this post, and how do you feel about him now?
Already asked and answered I thought you had read all my posts and not just pulled some to suit your needs.
My perspective was that he was being nice and it was not normal for him - read his Dr Who back and forth with poor zeek Day 1 - I think me and later MP were both recruited but my point still stands it was not normal behavior for MP day 1 this game.
[quote="Roxy"]I am torn betwixt TH and Metalspammer.
I have not previously spoken about the Spamming Newt so I will be laying a vote on TH. I did not like his vote or reasoning he later expressed.
I have zero time til. I am home[/quote]
Roxy's vote for TH came at a time when i think it was quite apparent that he had no chance of being lynched (53 minutes prior to the deadline). so on that front, it could be called an inconsequential and evasive vote. Roxy did not speak much at all about the larger bandwagons of Day 1 (Golden and Bass).
and your point here is...?
This whole iso thingy seems to be more of a narrative than a suspicions post imo.
[quote="Roxy"]Bye Golden this site hates people who return after long absences - Idk why.
I knew he was civ and am so surprised MP did not immediately feel the same.
I also wish others. who know him better would have spoke out more.[/quote]
this is probably the most interesting snippet from Roxy's post history so far for me. it's true that she had expressed a positive read of Golden earlier in the phase in response to TH's vote. but beyond that she didn't seem to make any strong effort at all to prevent his lynch. in this post she laments that MP and other Syndicate regulars didn't speak out for him more, and that "she knew he was a civ". i would assert that if she felt that way, nobody in the game was better suited to save his butt than she was. so why didn't you speak out for him more, Roxy?
bc I work Jimmy, obv something you do not have to do on a regular basis quite yet. There are plenty of others who have played as much with Golden as I have. splints, BR, MP have also played with him tbh I was surprised no one else saw his civ game for what it was.
you were apparently present in the thread at least once during the final stretch (in the post i previously highlighted at 53 minutes 'til the deadline). it'd seem you had an opportunity then to stand up for him and try to change people's minds.
bc I like to eat and have a glass of sweet tea when i finish work and sometimes I shower. 
[quote="Roxy"]TH - your Golden vote and subsequent reasoning was so shady. When I read your elaboration fr your vote it read like it was something you came up with bc you needed something to explain your vote. I knew that new players would listen you and MP but I thought they would be able to see through that charade of a vote.[/quote]
this is face value mafioso to me. Roxy doesn't make this negative assessment of TH's vote until after the lynch has been finalized and the town flip has been revealed. she asserts in this very comment that she felt that way at the time TH posted it, before the lynch finalized, and even that she thought other players would "see through the charade". but again, she made very little concerted effort herself, if any at all, to do anything about it when it mattered. she made this accusation retrospectively when it no longer made any difference because the damage was done. it reads to me like this, in so many words:
"you guys made a huge mistake. i can't believe you guys made that huge mistake. i wouldn't have made that huge mistake. i thought you guys would realize it'd be a huge mistake."
and that is not helpful.
Why are you insinuating words into my post that are not there? You can twist this all you want but I post when I have free time. I cannot be in the thread as much as you or MP. I did state my dissatisfaction with TH and his vote and reasons. Sorry i could not do it sooner due to rl.
and this post was not helpful just mean (impoo)
[quote="Roxy"]Turnips - Why dear vegee are you voting so early with no reasoning again? You were so wrong about Golden and now you try and do the same with Bubbles. I hope no one will follow this silliness again since the results proved disastrous last lynch. You are my biggest suspicion right now based solely on the way you are voting and your reasoning against Golden was unfounded.
Who are your top 3 suspects and why? What do you think about MM and Epi dying? Why slap an unchangeable vote down with over 24 hours yet to go? Why not say your suspicion and give Bubbles a chance to respond?[/quote]
and this is a strangely predictive comment. it looks to me like Roxy already knows that a potential lynch of TinyBubbles would end in a town flip, and is throwing shade over TH now instead of then.
"i hope no one will follow this silliness again"
what if he's right? and he didn't even vote btw. his lie proved effective at least in generating responses from players like this one.[/quote]
He is not right and anyone with half a brain can see that Bubbles is a likely civ with no btsc. His lie also led to the lynch of a civ last round gtk you trust his opinion. Did you even notice he never responded to me or my questions? No you did not bc that would require something more than an iso or rainbow list :P I am trying to prevent what happened to Golden from happening to Bubbles - something you just bitched about up there^^^ that I gave no effort in helping prevent a Golden lynch. Well I have time so I am trying right now to help Bubbles and you say that I know and so I am bad - you are right I do know bc it is so obv. You should read Bubbles again.
Also make up your mind it is so contradictory. 
[/quote]
She goes on to criticise JJ's post count... his ISOs, basically everything about his game entirely. Some it could come from a genuine place of feeling overwhelmed, but mostly it reads as throwing dirt. I can't even be bothered to quote most of it.
Roxy is conciliatory here, possibly she feels its time to get JJ off her back:
Roxy wrote:Jimmy - we butt heads bc you are a high poster and I am a low poster. I think we both felt picked on earlier and I apologize for that. I do feel you really are trying to find baddies in the way you know best - believe it or not I am too. I hope we can work together in that common goal. I would like your thoughts on TH. I do not remember an Iso from you about him.
Roxy wrote:jjj - glad you liked my post bc i did it mainly for you bc I felt bad about our prior exchange. I understand why I am still orange but I appreciate you taking my game style for what it is and also for giving me a chance to prove my worth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JJ expresses an early null read in his first ISO of Roxy. His second ISO, though, he begins to suspect her more (that's the one she responded to above).
workload finding Roxy a lot more suspicious than i did before.[/quote]
The conclusion of JJ's BR/Roxy comparison.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Meaningful interactions between/about Black Rock and Roxy
this doesn't really make me feel better about Roxy. i'd have liked to see a little more content, which isn't to say Roxy hasn't said enough. she has said quite a lot actually. it's just that BR specifically doesn't have much of a place in her post history beyond what i've highlighted here. and the noncommittal air of her expressed suspicion is a little troubling.
And eventually he gets here (although by this point everyone is on roxy):
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:when i try to compile potential scum teams, Roxy appears in essentially all of them at this point.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All up, I think this reaffirms my feelings about JJ. It looks like Roxy wanted to go out of her way to discredit him early, which doesn't seem likely if they are teammates. JJ slowly became more suspicious of roxy as the game went on.
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