MAD MAX: GAME OVER

#851

motel room wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I am unamused by MacDougall's current vote. He joined the early Rico pile to give it a big lead in the tally, and that alone has the potential to drive the eventual lynch. Late arrivals and unmotivated townies tend to just join the heap later in the day, and as it stands right now Rico is a high probability victim of that trend.

Mac's reasoning is weak, in my opinion. It's less about trying to figure out Rico's behavior and more about condemning him for it.
Mac likes weird vote patterns he can point at later for a laugh.

What does this mean?

#852

insertnamehere wrote:
TO THE TUNE OF:

This band is seriously one of the best. This song (and album) are totally awesome. I approve.

#853

motel room wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Dom wrote:MP, you've yet to set a coherent voice this game. You are doing whatever is convenient in the moment. You are buddying to me. I am suspciious of this.
I do not like the way Dom has asserted that MP is buddying him just because he's shaded in green on his rainbow.
I'm still weirded out by how quickly MP put me as town too, ftr.

I explained it more than adequately. I'm taking stronger gut-based stances than I normally do, because why not?

Do you have any concerns I can address?

#854

sprityo - joke/banter/FoS posts/votes, even(?) on Scotty (Glor vote), JJJ (roleplay). Says he'd rather have JJJ switch the Neil off, but doesn't actually say if he finds him suspicious for it or not (the way LoRab, for instance, mentioned a preconceived vibe). Iceskating too much already with his joke re: Wilgy / Mac team-up. Comment on Elohcin's Scotty vote also posted, but then going nowhere. Pokes Epig for his switch, but then simply (admitting himself) goes into pure hypotheticals about what makes it fishy. Lukewarm temporary stance on INH (via Sloonei's case).

Messy.

#855

motel room wrote:Ok some stuff.

I don't understand Rico's motivation, why he's so invested anti-mac. I don't get why he would do his Day 1 as scum, but I don't get why he would continue it Day 2 as town.

I like sloonei, jjj, dom. I think I like zebra and mac. I'm cool to vote instername, movingpictures, or lorab. I don't know enough about Elo or how she plays but I see she's jjj's main target atm and need to get a stance going. I also see Glorfindel is a person on the tally. And SVS.

I need to do work shit now. Like an idiot.

But why? Can you elaborate upon any of these?

#856

If it makes you feel any better, motel room, you're looking less town to me today.

#857

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:I simply don't believe you, I think you're being contrarian. If you disagreed with it that would be one thing but don't tell me it's nonsense when it's perfectly understandable.
He's been accused of trying to create a distraction -- this attack is bunk far more often than it is correct in my experience. I view it the same way I view people calling roleplay suspicious. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of what drives players to behave off-kilter.

He's been accused of employing WIFOM -- I don't think that's even true. I see no WIFOM in his play. I only see salt, and the reason for that salt is plainly evident.

He's been accused of being needlessly antagonistic -- just like he was in his most recent game as a townie.

I don't get it.

Brain syncing in progress. I will not be voting for Rico today; we are on the same page here.

#858

Elohcin wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Elohcin wrote:However, I don't agree with JJJ and his vote for me. Epi said it himself that he had no reason for voting/suspecting me.
One of the reasons you've gotten the attention of Neil Hartley for the wrong reasons is that you keep attributing my suspicion of you to Epignosis. Don't get me wrong, Epi is a top gentleman. He knows his stuff. You're talking to Neil though. You know, the main event? The man under the spotlight with the microphone who's been crooning the evening away so divinely? You're talking to me, not Epignosis.
It's weird. I don't know what it is. But your role-playing makes me cringe. (I'm not trying to be mean, just honest.) I think there are multiple reasons for this. First, you have always been such a logical, reasonable player. And this act seems to be the opposite to that. The second reason is difficult for me to explain. I am a very matter-of-fact person. Black and white. The role playing unnerves me for some reason and I think its b/c it seems like you are hiding behind it. Like you don;t have to be real or talk about real issues of the game b/c you are roleplaying. Maybe I am the one being weird, or who IS weird. Maybe I am bringing my own personality issues into this and shouldn't be. FWIW, I think you are civ.

Irony much?

This is the same kind of shit people gave Dom for in roleplaying his Donald Trump impression in a recent game. He contributed more original content while roleplaying than nearly everyone else playing that game. I believe JJJ is doing the same here.

You say you find him civilian now, but JJJ has been providing content even while roleplaying since the start of the game. What has changed? How did you come to a different conclusion?

#859

Oh my god, this zebra v. JJJ argument is giving me a headache.

#860

Brief sprityo ISO check:

sprityo wrote:reading this, it amazes me you all have things to say to eachother, that are never 100% the same, from game to game. Mafia is a strange game indeed.

but uh, ill move my vote to Neil Hardy. i dont trust a man who isnt himself

Not my favorite thing. Too easy.

Spoiler: show

The post Mac highlighted wasn't his only joke of Day 1. I don't know sprityo very well or at all. Maybe someone who knows him better can talk about whether he typically has a tendency to make jokes. This is an area where I think meta would be meaningful.

sprityo wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Elohcin wrote:Now, as for my vote today (Day 1 ) I can see where scotty can be bad. I am moving my vote there. I don't want to vote BWT if I don't have to. Hate to lose a possible civ position even if it's a quiet one.
Elohcin's vote was also vaguely explained, and tacked onto an awkward backtrack defense of BWT (her previous vote).

im not sure about anyone else, but the yellow part alone looks.... not the best? i mean, at least personally, i wouldve rather had scotty and his lurker suspicion over someone who i cant talk to or get information from. at least at the current point in time

I'm torn on this post. He and I agree that Elohcin's post looked ungood. The language he employed makes me a bit uneasy though. I think I actually find ellipses suspicious in general.

sprityo wrote:I mean, hopping off/on a wagon at best last moment is always fishy

I don't like this mindset.

Spoiler: show

This is his explanation for the previous post. He looks like he is explaining this scenario from the mindset of a baddie (I don't mean he himself must be a baddie, but that what he is saying would apply to how a baddie thinks about his/her voting behavior). That leaves me confused: if his final premise (highlighted) is accepted, then it'd imply he thought Epignosis deliberately put himself in a "never win" position.

sprityo wrote:@sloonei: it appears INH was sorta in the game, trying to put out some kind of content as to not look useless/lurker suspicious. But then you started poking at his logic with questions and he basically got more and more defensive (and frustrated) as it went on until he did that large post on page 16.) overall I think you should cut him some slack and back off the previous day stuff and ask his opinions on something else rather than frustrate him more. I can see your side of the argument about him just parroting, but it's not enough to convince anything short of thinking INH is null or slightly scummy at worst

This is somewhat waffly on INH. I actually kind of like though that he is advising Sloonei on how to get more out of his dialogue with INH.

sprityo wrote:If you're going to talk about me at least have me involved in it. Or you can also look at the reply I made earlier to wilgy (I think, either him or sloonei) about that exact post that you guys quoted. I won't stand for being downplayed for trying my best to contribute. (Or at least that's how I'm precieving it)

The emotion looks genuine at face value. I don't really trust myself to make emotion-based reads right now, but that's my perspective.

~~~

There are some issues here. It's hard to distinguish baddie from low-hanging fruit in this case. I think he is a valid suspect even if I am not exceedingly confident.

#861

Sloonei wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Sloonei, what's your immediate reaction to Zebra and I having a little spat?
Town/Town. I largely agree with your stance but I don't think zebra is spouting nonsense and I'm used to this level of stubbornness from a town zebra.

I echo this perspective, at least from what I read of it (no offense to Jay and zebra, but it was hard to read especially when I'm trying to quickly catch up).

#862

I've seen a number of people cast suspicion on Elohcin, but I remain the only vote.

#863

MacDougall wrote:Both Zebra and Motel Room have summed up my thoughts fairly well. Motel Room has drawn the same conclusions of Ricochet's play that has led to me reading the way I have, which is why I voted for Ricochet and Zebra explained exactly why I posted my first day 2 post when I dead, because I had stopped reading Rico's shit. Ricochet continuing to be antagonistic towards me on day 2 after dropping the policy lynch doesn't make me feel good as Mafia. Ricochet as well as the majority of the thread continuing discourse the involves me is annoying as fuck and my opening day 2 post reflects that, which Zebra adequately pointed out. Dom pointing out that the Ricochet/Mac stuff being unnoteworthy is also how I feel. It is annoying the fuck out of me that it continues.

Ricochet annoyed me for trying to policy lynch me day 1. I ain't about that life. That it started to bleed into day 2 started to . My first post reflected that. Zebra read well that I had stopped really reading his shit. Ricochet was not bad for it, but it definitely emotionally affected me. There is no way to say that bad rico wouldn't do it, or good rico is more likely because rico declared that he would do it before the game even started. He was all in on doing so before he drew a rolecard. So his day 1 policy lynch stuff is an absolute null.

Ricochet continuing to be hostile to me after that makes me think he is bad. I don't see any reason why he would feel the need to be antagonistic towards me, or make the post like "continue to kill whoever you want" if he is to be reverting to having a null read of me, which he should be. Motel Room did a good job pointing this out.

I think JJJ is trying to dig his scum teammate out of the shit tbh. It's easy to say "oh wifom as if he'd do that as bad" just as it's easy to say that he wouldn't have killed Epignosis, I love how he immediately ruled out the potential of he and a myriad of other players being responsible for the death of Epi because of interacting with him on the night immediately preceding Epi's death. I think JJJ is bad and is playing a very straight bat and leaning on wifom to throw us off. It's exactly how Wilgy and me play scum and tbh the fact that he referred to us as exponents of it makes me think he is extremely conscious that he is employing Maclike scum tactics in this game.

So far if I was to bucket people I would say I am reading Motel Room, Zebra, Dom and INH as civ because I can understand just about everything from them, there is no spin and it's easy to follow, and I am reading JJJ and Rico as bad because I can't rationalise some of their stuff. Everyone else is fairly neutral with the exception of Sloonei who I am gut reading bad but haven't got much in thread evidence to lean on. I think Dom is probably good.

Mac, I'm confused. Why, when I just asked you whom you would like to lynch, you said sprityo, yet in this pile of stuff you do not mention him at all; rather, you read JJJ and Rico as bad? What am I missing?

#864

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I've seen a number of people cast suspicion on Elohcin, but I remain the only vote.

Unless something changes between now and when I finish catching up, I'll be joining you there. Her play is completely uninspiring and, contrary to what Mac has been saying, I think she has the strongest reason to kill Epi of anyone in this game.

#865

MovingPictures07 wrote:I think she has the strongest reason to kill Epi of anyone in this game.

Agreed.

#866

I'm torn on Mac right now. I can understand being emotionally blinded with the Rico stuff, but I just cannot make heads or tails of his suspicions. I think we're operating on a different wavelength and that's causing my issue.

#867

Dom wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Dom wrote:Honestly I don't even think this Mac/Ricochet debacle is noteworthy.
What do you think is noteworthy?
INH and MP

I feel like you're making no effort whatsoever to understand my perspective or motivations, and I'm inclined to increasingly view that with suspicion. What's the deal? What can I address?

#868

Be right back.

#869

End of the line. Must sleep = must vote. Self-prez. I'm sorry if INH won't even stay as a relevant wagon (though, technically, LoRab also said she won't return or change), but I have no choice.

See ya or sayonara, if it'll end in tears. It'd be ironic for town to mislynch me when for once Mafia isn't removing me, but oh well.

#870

I revisited Dom's ISO. His Day 2 has been less inspired than his Day 1 was. I find myself looking at this single post though:

Spoiler: show

I really like that he felt the need to check my roleplay commentary against my content in another game, especially since he was Roleplay Guy in that game. It looks to me like a genuine effort to fact-check me.

There's potential for bias since I'm involved in the post. I see a townie though.

#871

insternamehere for the heft.

Reading through

#872

Why Rico and Lorab are most likely bad together: Rico had the lead for way too long without another vote dropping on him. Lorabs vote had way too much momentum swinging the other way as well.

Time for me to catch up now.

Linki: there it is.

#873

An INH lynch doesn't thrill me either. I think the case against him is better than the one against Ricochet. I think there are better options.

#874

Oh and this was playing on me - jjj why did you agree with Epi right at the start of the game on SVS being good?

#875

motel room wrote:Oh and this was playing on me - jjj why did you agree with Epi right at the start of the game on SVS being good?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Epi & JaggedJimmyNeil, you are making me nervous saying this kind of thing, lol.
I know it can be a little overwhelming when such a celebrity like Neil Hartley puts the spotlight on you, even when it's something nice. Let me tell you, gal. The way you kept your eye on Epignosis's Day 0 voting behavior for such a specific reason... I like the cut of your jib. Neil is on your side.

#876

I'm back, but distracted.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I revisited Dom's ISO. His Day 2 has been less inspired than his Day 1 was. I find myself looking at this single post though:

Spoiler: show
Dom wrote:
Dom wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Elohcin wrote:I honestly don't know what to say in defence. There is nothing to defend against. Your role playing or lack thereof confuses me.
I'll take a break to state it clearly:

There is nothing inherently suspicious about roleplay. Sometimes people just want to goof around and have a little fun in Mafia games. There are always people who cast suspicion for it though, and some of those are smearers. Your suspicion of me looked fake, like you had to squeeze your brain really hard to generate something bad to say about the roleplay.
What'd you say of my accusers when I role played as Domald?
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:/out-of character

The fact that we're spending this much energy discussing Mac's night kill tendencies in a game which has not yet seen a night kill -- or a night phase, is nonsense. I'm not interested in lynching him right now.
Emphasis on right now.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 39#p296039

This post was sort of a reminder to look into this.

JJJ's consistency is consistent.
I really like that he felt the need to check my roleplay commentary against my content in another game, especially since he was Roleplay Guy in that game. It looks to me like a genuine effort to fact-check me.

There's potential for bias since I'm involved in the post. I see a townie though.

This is a well-illustrated point. I like that too.

#877

Jay, what do you like about the INH case?

#878

Dom wrote:wait....
mac and i....
both...
lean...
CIV ON EACH OTHER????

#879

I guess I'll make a case for Elohcin.

Spoiler: show

Epi's vote was pseudo-random and unfounded as are any at the start of Day 1. Her response looks like nervous energy to me. I know that's vague and perhaps even arbitrary for an emoticon and one word, but it's my reaction.

Spoiler: show

Don't like this for two reasons:

1. The "confusing" label is applied to my play and used as justification for suspicion. Confusion and suspicion aren't equivalent.

2. The vague assertion that I am "trying too hard" to "win over" others. I don't actually know what that means exactly, and I'm underwhelmed to be accused of it general. She's been my baddie partner twice and in neither of those games did I ever goof around. I was a robotic analysis factory. She has seen first hand how I win townies over as a baddie, and it ain't that.

Elohcin wrote:going for self preservation here...

The self-preservation BWT vote just prior to the 24 hour mark. I believe her when she says she didn't know the day was 48 hours, but that doesn't tell me anything about her alignment.

Spoiler: show

The highlighted bit is one of the most suspicious moments in the game so far, in my opinion. I don't like the vague "I can see where Scotty can be bad", and I don't like the last sentence about BWT. This post reminds me of Triskaidekaphobia when Elohcin joined Epignosis in his attempt to mislynch me (Epi town, Eloh bad) by basically just saying "yeah I can see that" *vote*.

Spoiler: show

Discards other suspicions cast against her and blames it all on Epi's random Day 1 vote.

Spoiler: show

Her ears perks up at a typically goofball Wilgy post. Looks fake to me.

Spoiler: show

More about Neil Hartley being confusing, but nothing about why confusing is bad.

Spoiler: show

Now the explanation comes, and I'm not inclined to buy it. The highlighted portion is not a believable read to me. First, I am never the sort of player to hide behind anything. I always play loudly and out in front, and this game has been no different. Second, my roleplay has contained game-relevant content.

~~~

That's why I've voted for Elohcin.

#880

MovingPictures07 wrote:Jay, what do you like about the INH case?

I thought Sloonei made some fair observations. My disagreement with Sloonei is more about meta than anything else, and meta isn't the most inspiring defense. INH's most suspicious post is probably the one he made immediately after Epi's death.

#881

Mac, feel free to disregard my stuff asking about sprityo, I just got to where you're talking about it.

Also, I'm still feeling good about LoRab.

#882

MacDougall wrote:
Ricochet wrote:Issuing a slight baddie, for realsies, on Mac. I've not remembered a single non-Rico read from him so far toDay, except if in conjunction with how people react to my situation.

Jay was entirely reasonable in what he pointed out. I expressed intent to move on, even if maintaining a bitter tone. You then came in only fixating on the latter to make me look like I'm drumming and planning nothing else. Now you keep at it with endless paragraphs. Ech.

Your vote is meant to look principled (Imma vote uu if u keep this up) and angery, but it doesn't hold up in context.
Excuse me wankman but it has been very hard to focus on anything else since you tried to run a gangbang on my sorry bumbum before I even showed up. Heaven forefend my inability to find ways to make observations that don't involve what amounts to more than 3 quarters of all the in game content.

lol

#883

Two hours to go, folks. Let's get those votes in.

#884

MovingPictures07 wrote:Mac, feel free to disregard my stuff asking about sprityo, I just got to where you're talking about it.

Also, I'm still feeling good about LoRab.

I was going to anyway.

#885

This INH wagon is a Rico savewagon imo. He is one of my strongest town reads. Perhaps my strongest town read.

#886

Sorry for vanishing again, had to eat dinner. I'll be in and out until the deadline due to continued paper stuff too.

Regarding all of this stuff:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Jimmy... just own it. Look at my sig.
It gets very old very fast being perceived as this hyper arrogant dick when I frankly don't deserve that. I play Mafia with a great deal of effort, and I try to play with confidence, and I have this reputation that other people have assigned to me. I never claimed to be good at this game. I never claimed to be some kind of awesome analyst. I never claimed to have the best reads. All I do is try as hard as I can to help my team win. Your sig was literally a typo -- a funny one, but still a typo. I have played a bunch of terrible Mafia games. I have made a bunch of terrible reads. I shouldn't have to go on this rant to assure people that I am not in love with myself.

I just wanted to say that I feel like we have a very awesome and solid group of players here, even if at least a few of us, myself included, have sometimes been interpreted by others to be aggressive or arrogant or what have you. You all are really great, and despite the heated couple of discussions over the course of this day period, I'm plenty happy to be playing with you all and I think there is a great deal of respect floating around here for each other's mafia playstyles. And this has been an incredibly enjoyable, fun game nonetheless. This is rambling, I know, but I just wanted to say it.

#887

Hey Glorfindel, I know you've been preoccupied with stuff way more important than mafia, but whenever you get the chance if you could elaborate as much as possible about how you're reading the folks in this game, that'd be awesome.

#888

MacDougall wrote:I don't have a lot to go by in terms of Glorf meta but I saw him struggle immensely the one time he rolled mafia and every other time his cases have been clear and his posts have been purposeful.

I would agree with this assessment based on my experience as well.

#889

Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Who you gonna vote for, Dom?
Probably MP.

Probably? Your vote is on me. Do you have any intention of moving it or not?

#890

And Happy Birthday, LoRab! :yay:

#891

MacDougall wrote:
Dom wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Who you gonna vote for, Dom?
Probably MP.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hey folks, I'm still working hard on this paper, but I'll be taking a break sometime within the next hour or two to properly catch up here. Apologies for my d2 absence; it's been a really busy couple of days.
Lel

This is pretty great timing.

#892

Pretty much caught up now, even though I'm not sure how much some of that content has sunk in given the depth of some of the conversations and my quick reading/skimming. Going to throw out an updated rainbow with explanations momentarily.

Voting Elohcin

#893

MacDougall wrote:This INH wagon is a Rico savewagon imo. He is one of my strongest town reads. Perhaps my strongest town read.

Its a meta read right? Why so strong? I'm reading forwards and watching this tail end of the thread so my vote isnt set. I'm not a fan of insertname's contributions but have never played with him before. Maybe its his creepy avatar or that agreeing with Sloonei agreeing with me is me patting myself on the back.

Also I hate this

insertnamehere wrote:I guess the reason I'm so frustrated with your case against me is because it's seemingly built on the way I play the game being inherently valueless and sketchy, instead of anything I actually did.

#894

Happy birthday LoRab

#895

Also if its a savewagon, who's on it? Sloonei had a heavy (post-wise at least) case on INH, LoRab - not sure, Rico is self defence, and I know I'm just doing my thing.

It might be wrong but I don't see it as a savewagon.

#896

Happy Birthday

#897

Any thoughts on Elohcin? Bueller?

#898

motel room wrote:
MacDougall wrote:This INH wagon is a Rico savewagon imo. He is one of my strongest town reads. Perhaps my strongest town read.
Its a meta read right? Why so strong? I'm reading forwards and watching this tail end of the thread so my vote isnt set. I'm not a fan of insertname's contributions but have never played with him before. Maybe its his creepy avatar or that agreeing with Sloonei agreeing with me is me patting myself on the back.

Also I hate this
insertnamehere wrote:I guess the reason I'm so frustrated with your case against me is because it's seemingly built on the way I play the game being inherently valueless and sketchy, instead of anything I actually did.

I played a game not very long ago (ended only a couple weeks ago) with INH as Mafia and he was my only Mafia partner for many days and barely posted at all. The in thread contributions he did make were extremely different to these ones as well. So for him to be so active in this game means that whatever circumstances that caused the inactivity are not a factor here. I am finding it very easy to rationalise that he is contributing more because he is a civ. Also I like the tone of his posts in general and am not getting the same pings others are.

#899

motel room wrote:Also if its a savewagon, who's on it? Sloonei had a heavy (post-wise at least) case on INH, LoRab - not sure, Rico is self defence, and I know I'm just doing my thing.

It might be wrong but I don't see it as a savewagon.

It's funny because I think the people who have caused it, aren't on it. They have just been massaging the thread subtly into that direction. The boys in blue.

#900

I have mind control powers.

Who squashed LoRab?