MAD MAX: GAME OVER

[Tangrowth]

Sloonei, if you could lynch any two players right now, who would you pick?

I'm still committed to INH, but I'll pretend we're moving past him and give two other names. Scotty would be first. sprityo was underwhelming and a little shaky in his time here, and Scotty's re-entry didn't strike me as enthusiastic or committed. I got the sense that he subbed back in for a scum player who already had a big case mounted against him and, understandably if this is the case, gave up.

For the sake of not naming two quiet spots/players, I'll also name MP or Mac as my second. I don't know which. I haven't had a chance to pick either of their brains in this game yet, so my read on both is still up in the air.

What would you like to pick my brain about?

Reads. Tell me what you think about any player(s) of your choosing.

Sure, let me just catch up and sort out my thoughts unless you want somewhat unfresh thoughts on someone.

[Tangrowth]

I am so sick. I need some hugs.

It would be ideal if your biological parameters would return to normal in minimal time.

[Tangrowth]

I like some of your points, zebra, but I also flat out disagree with several others. You definitely have tunnel vision working on MP right now. That is not neccesarily a bad thing. I can't wait to see how massive MP's response is. I assume it will need its own thread.

I am honestly feeling inspired. As much as I have waffled on MP, some of his early handling of matters-Elohcin just look plain bad. Which bits do you flatly disagree with? You don't have to go on a whole thing, just point them out.

What inspired you specifically?

[Tangrowth]

He also took this post seriously

It's a good thing Wilgy is confirmed bad. Makes the lynch decision today easy.

?!?!!?!?!

That wasn't a serious response on my part.

[Tangrowth]

I'm starting to think that I will need to be lynched before this game ends, regardless.

[Sloonei]

I might need some help from people that were there:

Sloonei, do you remember if you voted Early or Late on day 2? I'm sorta avoiding Day 2 since it's like 30 pages.

I'm sorry if you've answered this, but what made you change your vote on Day 1 for Elo (1st voter) to INH on day 2 and LoRab on Day 3 (1st voter)?

Was it something that you said Elo did or said that made you change your mind from voting her again?
I ask because it seems like Elo was not really in any danger of being lynched day 1, and this could have been a legitimate appeal for credit if she did.

And who started the LoRab suspicion on day 3?

I voted early Day 2. I changed my votes between the days because new evidence came into the thread each day.
I do not think I was the first person to vote Elohcin Day 1. Votes are changeable. I just cast the earliest vote which stayed on her. I was at work for each of the first 2 EoD phases, so I'm not a reliable resource for what happened at those times.

[Tangrowth]

Sorry to see you go, zebra, it was a pleasure, even if you tunneled me extensively.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I like some of your points, zebra, but I also flat out disagree with several others. You definitely have tunnel vision working on MP right now. That is not neccesarily a bad thing. I can't wait to see how massive MP's response is. I assume it will need its own thread.

I am honestly feeling inspired. As much as I have waffled on MP, some of his early handling of matters-Elohcin just look plain bad. Which bits do you flatly disagree with? You don't have to go on a whole thing, just point them out.

What inspired you specifically?

Things you've already answered to. Rehashing them isn't going to be productive.

[Tangrowth]

I like some of your points, zebra, but I also flat out disagree with several others. You definitely have tunnel vision working on MP right now. That is not neccesarily a bad thing. I can't wait to see how massive MP's response is. I assume it will need its own thread.

I am honestly feeling inspired. As much as I have waffled on MP, some of his early handling of matters-Elohcin just look plain bad. Which bits do you flatly disagree with? You don't have to go on a whole thing, just point them out.

What inspired you specifically?

Things you've already answered to. Rehashing them isn't going to be productive.

I don't understand.

[Tangrowth]

INH was fucking pardoned? LOL.

[Tangrowth]

He has to be town given that result. He was probably even more frustrated because he knew this would waste time and he still would not be killed with this lynch after all of it. One of the times I got the most frustrated with being mislynched/suspected incorrectly as a civilian was when I had a one-time automatic life protection.

[Tangrowth]

ROLES:SILVERTONGUE: A cowardly lawyer, Silvertongue may stop one lynch during the game. If he uses it to save himself or a member of Toecutter's gang, his votes will not count for the rest of the game.

I'm guessing this is what saved INH. The story may suggest INH himself is not Silvertongue, but I'm not sure G-man could come out and confirm INH's role in his host post.

either way,

I'd say chances are high that he is that role.

[Tangrowth]

Welcome back, Epi!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't understand.

Your treatment of Elohcin is suspicious, from Day 1 onward. You've already discussed all of the moments that concern me, either in response to my ISO or my interactive read. I don't need to repeat that dialogue; it won't help me read you.

[Tangrowth]

I don't understand.

Your treatment of Elohcin is suspicious, from Day 1 onward. You've already discussed all of the moments that concern me, either in response to my ISO or my interactive read. I don't need to repeat that dialogue; it won't help me read you.

Okay then.

[Tangrowth]

It's unfortunate so many of y'all are suspicious for some reason or another. The only players I feel like I can comfortably remove from process of elimination are Zebra/Epi 2.0, INH (going with Silvertongue), Quin, and Sloonei. That leaves this horrible pile:

Dom
DrWilgy
Glorfindel
indiglo
LoRab
MacDougall
motel room
MovingPictures07
sprityo / Scotty 2.0

Reducing it further by removing the ones I think look the most town in that group: Dom, LoRab, motel room...

DrWilgy
Glorfindel
indiglo
MacDougall
MovingPictures07
Scotty 2.0

Still six damned names to find three baddies, and that's only if I'm right about the ones I've removed. Annoying. I reduced it one more time into my top suspects among the four with a red highlighter.

That's my lynch pool for Day 5.

Why zebra/Epi 2.0?

[Tangrowth]

Okay, it seems I'm caught up now. Let me think about everyone for a bit here and throw out a new rainbow with detailed reads on everyone.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why zebra/Epi 2.0?

Soul read. She looks genuine even when she's wrong. It's not terribly different from my read on Sloonei.

[Tangrowth]

By the way, if you all are going to lynch me, just go ahead and make it Day 5 and get it over with. I've been defending myself extensively, and it's clear that I will be an eventual lynch due to POE. I do not want to be the lynch in LYLO, and my schedule is only going to get busier from now until Nov. 11, so just get it over with. I will still defend whatever you all are interested to hear from me, and it is difficult NOT to elaborate immensely in response to zebra's comments against me the past cycle, but I will not waste any time that I actually do have to play this game and will spend more of my concentration on sorting out other players.

[Tangrowth]

Why zebra/Epi 2.0?

Soul read. She looks genuine even when she's wrong. It's not terribly different from my read on Sloonei.

What does soul read mean, like a gut read?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why zebra/Epi 2.0?

Soul read. She looks genuine even when she's wrong. It's not terribly different from my read on Sloonei.

What does soul read mean, like a gut read?

Kind of I guess. I am using it to mean a strong read that is generated primarily by feeling.

[LoRab]

Hey LoRab, are you currently around in enough fashion to talk a bit? Is anyone else around as well?

I wasn't. I am now, though.

Why or how would you die this phase?

I think the only people who'd be piqued by that comment are bad, so that's a point against you.

One of them tried to kill me last night. A different one can try tonight. Doesn't sound like a double target to me, but I suppose that's up to G-Man. My protector can't double target me for sure though.

I assume that wouldn't be allowed because of the double target rule--at least that's how it usually works. Also, there is more than one protector, at least for some roles. And it seemed like an odd thing to say, based on the fact that double targets aren't usually allowed. So, I'll take the point against me, but I assure you it wasn't alignment indicative. I notice things, I ask about them. That's all.

I am so sick. I need some hugs.

But only if you're not germy.

And who started the LoRab suspicion on day 3?

that's a good question that I don't actually know the answer to.

He has to be town given that result. He was probably even more frustrated because he knew this would waste time and he still would not be killed with this lynch after all of it. One of the times I got the most frustrated with being mislynched/suspected incorrectly as a civilian was when I had a one-time automatic life protection.

As I've said, we do not know that failed kills/non-lynches are written differently. I also realize we haven't asked the host. So:

@GMan: In this gme, are failed lynches because a player survives the first kill attempt written differently than a lynch being stopped by silvertongue? Similarly, are failed night kills written the same or differently, based on protection, block, or survival of first death attempt?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

but I will not waste any time that I actually do have to play this game and will spend more of my concentration on sorting out other players.

That's in everyone's best interests. I don't think we have to lynch you. If you're town your input is valued, so that's what I want to see. Defending yourself until the end of time is very unlikely to change anything.

[Sloonei]

I started the LoRab suspicion Day 3, I think.

[LoRab]

I started the LoRab suspicion Day 3, I think.

But I don't think you were the first to suspect me in the game.

[Tangrowth]

Why zebra/Epi 2.0?

Soul read. She looks genuine even when she's wrong. It's not terribly different from my read on Sloonei.

What does soul read mean, like a gut read?

Kind of I guess. I am using it to mean a strong read that is generated primarily by feeling.

Okay, that makes sense, thanks.

[Tangrowth]

I also feel that MP's responses to those who have suspected throughout the game have been alarmingly defensive, and I think he's the most likely candidate for JJJ's attempted NK. I admit that that's more speculative than his Day 1 antics with Eloh.

linki Sloonei - Which points do you flat-out disagree with and which points do you like?

I'm just going to defend one thing and move on, except for anything you all want to hear from me about.

But I just have to say: LOL, what? I feel like I have been as calm as possible this game.

[Tangrowth]

Hey LoRab, are you currently around in enough fashion to talk a bit? Is anyone else around as well?

I wasn't. I am now, though.

He has to be town given that result. He was probably even more frustrated because he knew this would waste time and he still would not be killed with this lynch after all of it. One of the times I got the most frustrated with being mislynched/suspected incorrectly as a civilian was when I had a one-time automatic life protection.

As I've said, we do not know that failed kills/non-lynches are written differently. I also realize we haven't asked the host. So:

@GMan: In this gme, are failed lynches because a player survives the first kill attempt written differently than a lynch being stopped by silvertongue? Similarly, are failed night kills written the same or differently, based on protection, block, or survival of first death attempt?

That's fair. Hopefully G-Man will answer. I will not go as far as saying he is 100% town (I realize my previous language that you quoted here was perhaps too strong in exaggeration), but I have no interest in lynching him personally.

[Tangrowth]

but I will not waste any time that I actually do have to play this game and will spend more of my concentration on sorting out other players.

That's in everyone's best interests. I don't think we have to lynch you. If you're town your input is valued, so that's what I want to see. Defending yourself until the end of time is very unlikely to change anything.

I don't know; I am caught in a weird situation here. Every single time a decent amount of you all start town reading me, even heavily (see: Sloonei's rainbow list where I was top town read, and now I'm a top two suspect), it all falls apart due to my treatment of Elohcin, which I know is honest. At this point a large part of me feels as though there will be absolutely nothing I can do to display my alignment to all of you all, because I feel like I have been putting in 110% effort thus far and been consistently genuine and reasonable. It hasn't gotten me anywhere.

[Tangrowth]

It's like the POE spikes are slowly closing in on me all game ever since that Elohcin flip, and they won't stop despite any of my best efforts. Eventually I have to be lynched for town to move on.

[MacDougall]

We should just lynch g-man.

[Tangrowth]

We should just lynch g-man.

[Tangrowth]

Working on a new rainbow now. Might be a little bit as I sort through all of my thoughts here and compose little blurbs about everyone.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

but I will not waste any time that I actually do have to play this game and will spend more of my concentration on sorting out other players.

That's in everyone's best interests. I don't think we have to lynch you. If you're town your input is valued, so that's what I want to see. Defending yourself until the end of time is very unlikely to change anything.

I don't know; I am caught in a weird situation here. Every single time a decent amount of you all start town reading me, even heavily (see: Sloonei's rainbow list where I was top town read, and now I'm a top two suspect), it all falls apart due to my treatment of Elohcin, which I know is honest. At this point a large part of me feels as though there will be absolutely nothing I can do to display my alignment to all of you all, because I feel like I have been putting in 110% effort thus far and been consistently genuine and reasonable. It hasn't gotten me anywhere.

A significant portion of that 110% effort has been in answering to accusations. I am telling you how you can change your approach. I know it's annoying to leave accusations unanswered, but sometimes it's just for the best.

[Tangrowth]

but I will not waste any time that I actually do have to play this game and will spend more of my concentration on sorting out other players.

That's in everyone's best interests. I don't think we have to lynch you. If you're town your input is valued, so that's what I want to see. Defending yourself until the end of time is very unlikely to change anything.

I don't know; I am caught in a weird situation here. Every single time a decent amount of you all start town reading me, even heavily (see: Sloonei's rainbow list where I was top town read, and now I'm a top two suspect), it all falls apart due to my treatment of Elohcin, which I know is honest. At this point a large part of me feels as though there will be absolutely nothing I can do to display my alignment to all of you all, because I feel like I have been putting in 110% effort thus far and been consistently genuine and reasonable. It hasn't gotten me anywhere.

A significant portion of that 110% effort has been in answering to accusations. I am telling you how you can change your approach. I know it's annoying to leave accusations unanswered, but sometimes it's just for the best.

I suppose that's fair, but I feel like I have consistently showed a propensity to sort out folks this game. I am not sure what else I could have done to improve any of that hunting since I have consistently been under attack. I don't understand how failing to explain my point of view is going to change anyone's mind, but alright. Like I said, I'll answer questions I guess.

[G-Man]

As I've said, we do not know that failed kills/non-lynches are written differently. I also realize we haven't asked the host. So:

@GMan: In this gme, are failed lynches because a player survives the first kill attempt written differently than a lynch being stopped by silvertongue? Similarly, are failed night kills written the same or differently, based on protection, block, or survival of first death attempt?

I reserve the right to be as specific or vague in each lynch and night post as I choose to be.

[Tangrowth]

It's pretty difficult not to feel entirely dejected right now, to be honest.

[Sloonei]

I would like to hear some thoughts on this exchange I had with Wilgy in the aftermath of yesterday's EoD. It starts with Wilgy's first post in the quote pyramid and continues on for a while:

I actually trust the wagon without Lorab and sloon on it more.

Changed my vote.

Am I back in your bad graces?

You were never out of my bad graces and I still gth you bad. While I didn't want to vote with you, it's better than a tie.

For safe keeping I'll notate my vote record this phase. I was on INH, changed to Indiglo and changed back to INH all within 3 min to prevent a tie.

@Sloonei I gut read you as bad from me due to a feeling of dancing around the pizza last night. A forced non-grasping of the Rico situation. This is heavily dependent upon other's alignements though.

@Sprityo I gut read you due to your request of wishing to team with Mac following mine.

@Lorab, yes that is what I stated. Your point?

What's your view on Sloonei now that you have an alignment to work with?

Sloonei is no longer on my baddiedar.

Losing track of your fake reads, Doctor?

No baddiedar is different. I have no impulse to vote for you but in a gth scenario I do think you are still bad.


Honestly at this point with how little time ive had to read/contribute all my thoughts are just a gth random mess.

It continues in this post and goes on in a few others around there if anyone wants to look at it.

What interests me is that it struck me as Wilgy genuinely forgetting that he had changed his read on me from scum to town earlier in the game, and then trying to cover his tracks by making up some bogus claim about the terminology he was using. I have already mentioned this and he told me I'm wrong, but I'm not sure I'm inclined to believe, which is why I'm bringing up now. What do people think? Is Wilgy's behavior here believable?

[Sloonei]

It's pretty difficult not to feel entirely dejected right now, to be honest.

Look how many times our collective minds have changed this game. Hang in there!

[Tangrowth]

It's pretty difficult not to feel entirely dejected right now, to be honest.

Look how many times our collective minds have changed this game. Hang in there!

I'll try. There just must be something about my playstyle that always gets me in trouble, and it is bothersome that I still haven't figured out exactly what that is.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's pretty difficult not to feel entirely dejected right now, to be honest.

Look how many times our collective minds have changed this game. Hang in there!

I'll try. There just must be something about my playstyle that always gets me in trouble, and it is bothersome that I still haven't figured out exactly what that is.

It's the inherent product of posting so many times, particularly when you involve yourself in so many different discussions. You have more opportunities to say something that other people might find suspicious than the average player. I have experienced the phenomenon many times. This isn't an advisement to post less, but rather an advisement to consider the effects of posting so much and play in a way that is always conscious of those effects.

[Tangrowth]

Hey Epi 2.0, are you current on the thread?

[Tangrowth]

It's pretty difficult not to feel entirely dejected right now, to be honest.

Look how many times our collective minds have changed this game. Hang in there!

I'll try. There just must be something about my playstyle that always gets me in trouble, and it is bothersome that I still haven't figured out exactly what that is.

It's the inherent product of posting so many times, particularly when you involve yourself in so many different discussions. You have more opportunities to say something that other people might find suspicious than the average player. I have experienced the phenomenon many times. This isn't an advisement to post less, but rather an advisement to consider the effects of posting so much and play in a way that is always conscious of those effects.

Yeah, I guess so.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Remember Talking Heads Day 7. I was a sure fire lynch (after wrongly defending MacDougall), and I got out of it by abjectly refusing to defend myself and instead by focusing solely on material that actually matters. The value of defense in Mafia is limited.

[Sloonei]

It's pretty difficult not to feel entirely dejected right now, to be honest.

Look how many times our collective minds have changed this game. Hang in there!

I'll try. There just must be something about my playstyle that always gets me in trouble, and it is bothersome that I still haven't figured out exactly what that is.

You should take it as a compliment, I think. It seems to be me that we all just need to be more skeptical of you because we know what you're capable of as a baddie.

this game, for instance...

[Tangrowth]

Remember Talking Heads Day 7. I was a sure fire lynch (after wrongly defending MacDougall), and I got out of it by abjectly refusing to defend myself and instead by focusing solely on material that actually matters. The value of defense in Mafia is limited.

That was a pretty awesome comeback.

It does help though that you had a role which couldn't be nightkilled, since they tried to kill you multiple times. :P

[Tangrowth]

It's pretty difficult not to feel entirely dejected right now, to be honest.

Look how many times our collective minds have changed this game. Hang in there!

I'll try. There just must be something about my playstyle that always gets me in trouble, and it is bothersome that I still haven't figured out exactly what that is.

You should take it as a compliment, I think. It seems to be me that we all just need to be more skeptical of you because we know what you're capable of as a baddie.

this game, for instance...

Nice way to make that relevant to this game, but you're sorely mistaken. :P

Seriously though, thanks. I don't think I'm really any good at this game though, maybe just good at making it seem like I'm town when I'm not. Lol.

[Tangrowth]

Jay, I'm having the opposite problem as you right now, based on how my rainbow is falling out still. I don't think I'm finding enough players to be suspicious.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay, I'm having the opposite problem as you right now, based on how my rainbow is falling out still. I don't think I'm finding enough players to be suspicious.

That's a good position to be in. A more restrictive PoE is easier to work with. I look forward to seeing it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What interests me is that it struck me as Wilgy genuinely forgetting that he had changed his read on me from scum to town earlier in the game, and then trying to cover his tracks by making up some bogus claim about the terminology he was using. I have already mentioned this and he told me I'm wrong, but I'm not sure I'm inclined to believe, which is why I'm bringing up now. What do people think? Is Wilgy's behavior here believable?

I think your observation is a good one. I once made a GTH read on ProFiction and then forgot it, leading to a blatant slip in a subsequent post (I was bad). Nobody caught it and I got away, but it was definitely a mistake on my part.