Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:44 pm
I can totally see bad nutella.
She's just... not very around.
Like compare to last game where she was extremely around. Saying things. Posting hot takes. Etc.
Sorry I have been very distracted by other things so I haven't really gotten my head in this game. I don't have super hot takes, I have some townreads and a lot of people who haven't made much of an impression. I kinda think Sloonei is scum for being so focused on his garbage Gman case over everything else, but I've gone back and forth on him.
I think it's likely one of you and TH is bad based on this recent exchange.
nutella: “I don’t agree with the case on G-man.”
Sloonei: [presents a fresh new case against G-man]
nutella: “Sloonei’s G-man case is garbage.”
Well it is.
You said you disagreed with the case on G-man before I posted my thing. What was the case at that time?
You’ve said nothing about my case until this exact moment, where it is waved away as garbage. Why is it garbage?
I said I didn't see the case on him as in I didn't get the reasons people suspected him, since I hadn't seen anything that struck me as atypical for town Gman. You posted "reasons" which were just a list of some details from his posts. I found it uninteresting and uncompelling.
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 pm
I said I didn't see the case on him as in I didn't get the reasons people suspected him, since I hadn't seen anything that struck me as atypical for town Gman. You posted "reasons" which were just a list of some details from his posts. I found it uninteresting and uncompelling.
... what else is a case supposed to be? What would have made it more compelling?
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 pm
I said I didn't see the case on him as in I didn't get the reasons people suspected him, since I hadn't seen anything that struck me as atypical for town Gman. You posted "reasons" which were just a list of some details from his posts. I found it uninteresting and uncompelling.
... what else is a case supposed to be? What would have made it more compelling?
This is not feisty or spicy nutella.
You're Sloonei. You know what a case is. Come on. Why are any of G-Man's posts suspicious? What makes them feel outside his normal town meta? I don't recall anything remotely persuasive about this from your post. I looked at the stuff you quoted and thought "yeah, nah, nothing wrong with that."
Also this is a garbage line of questioning. This is Fake Questioning Sloonei. Like I saw in GOC. I thought I felt it again early this game, then I cooled down on you for a while but the feeling is back in full force. You're full of shit.
Wait, is this multi quote feature new?
I’m not here to use it, but I disagree with Sloonei on Nutella.
How I interpret this conversation:
Nutella: hmm, I see no case on GMan
Sloonei: here it is
Nutella: still not seeing it
Sloonei: aha you have already said that you are not seeing it and yet you are still not seeing it?
My general impression is scum would love to seize the opportunity to pick a new town lynch, especially with a narrowing list. And if GMan is scum, the defense probably isn’t as brazen.
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 7:51 pm
I said I didn't see the case on him as in I didn't get the reasons people suspected him, since I hadn't seen anything that struck me as atypical for town Gman. You posted "reasons" which were just a list of some details from his posts. I found it uninteresting and uncompelling.
... what else is a case supposed to be? What would have made it more compelling?
This is not feisty or spicy nutella.
You're Sloonei. You know what a case is. Come on. Why are any of G-Man's posts suspicious? What makes them feel outside his normal town meta? I don't recall anything remotely persuasive about this from your post. I looked at the stuff you quoted and thought "yeah, nah, nothing wrong with that."
Also this is a garbage line of questioning. This is Fake Questioning Sloonei. Like I saw in GOC. I thought I felt it again early this game, then I cooled down on you for a while but the feeling is back in full force. You're full of shit.
G-man abstained from giving GTH reads during the night because he didn’t want to provide the mafia team a road map to killable targets. G-man had provided two comprehensive reads lists during the day.
G-man suspected Mac on what was at best an extremely flimsy context.
All of the suspects that he listed Day 1 came with concessions.
His Day 1 vote behavior was incendiary. He wasn’t interested in finding the correct vote.
You’re right. I know what a case is. I posted one here. I expect some level of engagement with it.
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:04 pm
Wait, is this multi quote feature new?
I’m not here to use it, but I disagree with Sloonei on Nutella.
How I interpret this conversation:
Nutella: hmm, I see no case on GMan
Sloonei: here it is
Nutella: still not seeing it
Sloonei: aha you have already said that you are not seeing it and yet you are still not seeing it?
My general impression is scum would love to seize the opportunity to pick a new town lynch, especially with a narrowing list. And if GMan is scum, the defense probably isn’t as brazen.
Nah, it’s more that she’s not engaging with it. Things have been said about g-man but rather than address those things she’s just said “nope.” It's like like that Monty Python argument sketch.
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:04 pm
Wait, is this multi quote feature new?
I’m not here to use it, but I disagree with Sloonei on Nutella.
How I interpret this conversation:
Nutella: hmm, I see no case on GMan
Sloonei: here it is
Nutella: still not seeing it
Sloonei: aha you have already said that you are not seeing it and yet you are still not seeing it?
My general impression is scum would love to seize the opportunity to pick a new town lynch, especially with a narrowing list. And if GMan is scum, the defense probably isn’t as brazen.
Nah, it’s more that she’s not engaging with it. Things have been said about g-man but rather than address those things she’s just said “nope.” It's like like that Monty Python argument sketch.
I think I've been clear that I think all the things you pointed out in your case are things I see as consistent with town G-Man. I don't have a problem with him hedging on his reads. I don't have a problem with him avoiding giving reads during night phase. I don't have a problem with his behavior at EOD1. I've seen him mislynched before for similar reasons and I'm not looking for that to happen again. I could be wrong but I think he has an honest approach and a town mindset. How many ways do I need to rephrase "I don't find your case compelling"
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:04 pm
Wait, is this multi quote feature new?
I’m not here to use it, but I disagree with Sloonei on Nutella.
How I interpret this conversation:
Nutella: hmm, I see no case on GMan
Sloonei: here it is
Nutella: still not seeing it
Sloonei: aha you have already said that you are not seeing it and yet you are still not seeing it?
My general impression is scum would love to seize the opportunity to pick a new town lynch, especially with a narrowing list. And if GMan is scum, the defense probably isn’t as brazen.
Nah, it’s more that she’s not engaging with it. Things have been said about g-man but rather than address those things she’s just said “nope.” It's like like that Monty Python argument sketch.
I think I've been clear that I think all the things you pointed out in your case are things I see as consistent with town G-Man. I don't have a problem with him hedging on his reads. I don't have a problem with him avoiding giving reads during night phase. I don't have a problem with his behavior at EOD1. I've seen him mislynched before for similar reasons and I'm not looking for that to happen again. I could be wrong but I think he has an honest approach and a town mindset. How many ways do I need to rephrase "I don't find your case compelling"
I don’t believe that this is your honest response. I’ve made less compelling cases in the past that you’ve been on board with.
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:04 pm
Wait, is this multi quote feature new?
I’m not here to use it, but I disagree with Sloonei on Nutella.
How I interpret this conversation:
Nutella: hmm, I see no case on GMan
Sloonei: here it is
Nutella: still not seeing it
Sloonei: aha you have already said that you are not seeing it and yet you are still not seeing it?
My general impression is scum would love to seize the opportunity to pick a new town lynch, especially with a narrowing list. And if GMan is scum, the defense probably isn’t as brazen.
Nah, it’s more that she’s not engaging with it. Things have been said about g-man but rather than address those things she’s just said “nope.” It's like like that Monty Python argument sketch.
I think I've been clear that I think all the things you pointed out in your case are things I see as consistent with town G-Man. I don't have a problem with him hedging on his reads. I don't have a problem with him avoiding giving reads during night phase. I don't have a problem with his behavior at EOD1. I've seen him mislynched before for similar reasons and I'm not looking for that to happen again. I could be wrong but I think he has an honest approach and a town mindset. How many ways do I need to rephrase "I don't find your case compelling"
I don’t believe that this is your honest response. I’ve made less compelling cases in the past that you’ve been on board with.
I dunno what to tell you then, except that this ain't the past.
Of course G-man could be town. Of course people sometimes express uncertainty in their reads, Day 1 or otherwise. And the paranoia about giving the mafia team guidance in their kill selection has been prevalent on the Syndicate for as long as I’ve been here. But the purpose of making a case and playing this game is to consider the alternatives to that.
Town G-man can be humble. He’ll tell us when he’s behind or not sure what to think of things or just struggling with the game in general. His posts here haven’t had that feel. His posts here strike me as being instilled with inflated confidence, as though he doesn’t want to be called out on exactly those other things. The “built-in concessions” I refer to in his first reads list aren’t the typical “hedging” remarks I’d expect. Rather “MP is doing this, which could mean X or Y” it’s “I have an old bias...”, which signals to me that he is aware the read exists on a flimsy premise, not that he is doubting himself.
That is just one point in my G-man case. I’m typing it all out here not out of investment in the case itself, but to frame my newer and bigger suspicion against nutella. I’ve been on the receiving end of her tinfoil suspicions in just about every game we’ve played together for at least the last year. I know what that’s like. I also have a sense of what it looks like when she is actively trying to figure things out— to figure me out. It comes with an air of believing that I am full of shit, but a willingness to listen anyway. Throughout this exchange she has demonstrated an unwillingness to engage: the entire above spiel about G-man is an elaboration on the case that I already presented earlier. It is absolutely not air tight, but it’s also not far out of bounds for what I usually post, particularly on Days 1 or 2. For nutella to suggest that it’s not even a case at all, but something lesser, and to immediately pivot to calling me fake, without demonstrating any of the usual visible inner turmoil over that read, just reads like one conspicuously counterfeit jar of hazelnut spread.
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:39 pm
Of course G-man could be town. Of course people sometimes express uncertainty in their reads, Day 1 or otherwise. And the paranoia about giving the mafia team guidance in their kill selection has been prevalent on the Syndicate for as long as I’ve been here. But the purpose of making a case and playing this game is to consider the alternatives to that.
Town G-man can be humble. He’ll tell us when he’s behind or not sure what to think of things or just struggling with the game in general. His posts here haven’t had that feel. His posts here strike me as being instilled with inflated confidence, as though he doesn’t want to be called out on exactly those other things. The “built-in concessions” I refer to in his first reads list aren’t the typical “hedging” remarks I’d expect. Rather “MP is doing this, which could mean X or Y” it’s “I have an old bias...”, which signals to me that he is aware the read exists on a flimsy premise, not that he is doubting himself.
That is just one point in my G-man case. I’m typing it all out here not out of investment in the case itself, but to frame my newer and bigger suspicion against nutella. I’ve been on the receiving end of her tinfoil suspicions in just about every game we’ve played together for at least the last year. I know what that’s like. I also have a sense of what it looks like when she is actively trying to figure things out— to figure me out. It comes with an air of believing that I am full of shit, but a willingness to listen anyway. Throughout this exchange she has demonstrated an unwillingness to engage: the entire above spiel about G-man is an elaboration on the case that I already presented earlier. It is absolutely not air tight, but it’s also not far out of bounds for what I usually post, particularly on Days 1 or 2. For nutella to suggest that it’s not even a case at all, but something lesser, and to immediately pivot to calling me fake, without demonstrating any of the usual visible inner turmoil over that read, just reads like one conspicuously counterfeit jar of hazelnut spread.
Nah. I am still trying to figure stuff out, like I've said I've gone back and forth on you. It's just that I've decided G-Man is town and nothing you said convinced me to consider otherwise. Funnily enough, your second paragraph here is the first thing that has actually given me pause. I can potentially see where you are coming from there. That angle was not present at all in your earlier case though. This could easily be a retroactive addition to inflate the depth of your "case", or it could be legitimate insight. Show me that this additional level of depth was present in your read earlier, and maybe I'll believe you.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:00 pmDay 2 has ended.
Another day ends and my what a pleasure
Off goes that hippo with his oh so precious treasure
Now Banjo and birdie are as clueless as ever
Who can deny that Grunty's the most clever?
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:39 pm
Of course G-man could be town. Of course people sometimes express uncertainty in their reads, Day 1 or otherwise. And the paranoia about giving the mafia team guidance in their kill selection has been prevalent on the Syndicate for as long as I’ve been here. But the purpose of making a case and playing this game is to consider the alternatives to that.
Town G-man can be humble. He’ll tell us when he’s behind or not sure what to think of things or just struggling with the game in general. His posts here haven’t had that feel. His posts here strike me as being instilled with inflated confidence, as though he doesn’t want to be called out on exactly those other things. The “built-in concessions” I refer to in his first reads list aren’t the typical “hedging” remarks I’d expect. Rather “MP is doing this, which could mean X or Y” it’s “I have an old bias...”, which signals to me that he is aware the read exists on a flimsy premise, not that he is doubting himself.
That is just one point in my G-man case. I’m typing it all out here not out of investment in the case itself, but to frame my newer and bigger suspicion against nutella. I’ve been on the receiving end of her tinfoil suspicions in just about every game we’ve played together for at least the last year. I know what that’s like. I also have a sense of what it looks like when she is actively trying to figure things out— to figure me out. It comes with an air of believing that I am full of shit, but a willingness to listen anyway. Throughout this exchange she has demonstrated an unwillingness to engage: the entire above spiel about G-man is an elaboration on the case that I already presented earlier. It is absolutely not air tight, but it’s also not far out of bounds for what I usually post, particularly on Days 1 or 2. For nutella to suggest that it’s not even a case at all, but something lesser, and to immediately pivot to calling me fake, without demonstrating any of the usual visible inner turmoil over that read, just reads like one conspicuously counterfeit jar of hazelnut spread.
Nah. I am still trying to figure stuff out, like I've said I've gone back and forth on you. It's just that I've decided G-Man is town and nothing you said convinced me to consider otherwise. Funnily enough, your second paragraph here is the first thing that has actually given me pause. I can potentially see where you are coming from there. That angle was not present at all in your earlier case though. This could easily be a retroactive addition to inflate the depth of your "case", or it could be legitimate insight. Show me that this additional level of depth was present in your read earlier, and maybe I'll believe you.
I was pretty much just rephrasing the very first point in the case:
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 4:00 pm
All four of his "BAD" reads come with built-in concessions. I wouldn't quite call it hedging or "wishywashy"; instead G is admitting the flaw in all of his reads ("old bias" x2, "may be a tad harsh", "Maybe it's lack of familiarity"). The effect suggests a player who is tentative because he knows his reads are wrong, as opposed to a player who is keeping an open mind.
G-Man wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 2:57 pm
Patching together a reads list yields this:
GOOD VIBES
-Russ: His good on the fake-claim cover roles makes me feel good. A baddie would have clarified with the host.
-Dunya: I like her spunk. She's more assertive and direct than I would suspect a baddie to be.
-Epi: He makes good counter-punches, but how many times have I been duped into civ reading him in the past?
TBD (I need to ISO these for a stronger read)
-DDL
-sig
-Sloonei
-Speed
-Tony
-TH
BAD VIBES
-MP: This might be old bias due to his high-volume style of play. It's a soft ping, so don't take it the wrong way.
-Nutella: Equal parts old bias and not feeling much of anything despite the volume of her ISO.
-Mac: He keeps coming back to low-hanging fruit. Lazy for a civvie to do; wise for a baddie. It's never lost its appeal. I am low-hanging fruit, I realize this, so my judgement may be a tad harsh.
-Nanook: Maybe it's a lack of familiarity, but something in his play rubs me the wrong way. Rhyme scheme in moderation and play the game, friendo.
All four of his "BAD" reads come with built-in concessions. I wouldn't quite call it hedging or "wishywashy"; instead G is admitting the flaw in all of his reads ("old bias" x2, "may be a tad harsh", "Maybe it's lack of familiarity"). The effect suggests a player who is tentative because he knows his reads are wrong, as opposed to a player who is keeping an open mind.
Okay, you do have the "knows his reads are wrong" part here. I guess I just glossed over that because I disagreed, I thought his hedges were pretty natural. Looking again I can understand why you saw what you saw. I think I still disagree.
The same thing comes out when he elaborates on his nanook read:
He needs more time to post. He doesn't have much, but I will say this:
-Not a fan of his insistence on rhyming. Yes, it’s cheeky and fun but even I won’t encourage everyone to post solely in rhymes. Not a fan of his repetition of it. (-1)
...is strange coming from a guy who insists on practicing strange and quirky gimmicks all the time (his posts all start with a P, this time, by the way).
It's doubtful to me that someone of G-Man's quirky caliber would characterize posting in rhymes as something bad or inscrutable. We understand song lyrics just fine (well, most. We have Yes and Led Zeppelin...)
I would lynch G-Man today.
Peculiar? Yes. Hypocritical? Perhaps. In this game, there is a limit to how beneficial the rhymes are. You can fit them in here and there between prose as well. Once the benefit is over, sticking with the rhymes just impairs communication. I think it’s his apparent stubbornness to abstain from prose more so than the use of rhyme. My play experience with him is quite limited. If he’s quirky like me, then it might make sense. I lack that context. I’m voting for Nanook now so I have a vote on the board as I start ISOing the people I have little to no read on.
This post also feels as though it has a sort of falsely inflated confidence, like he is overcompensating when pushed on a read that is weak.
This point I don't get at all. I don't see anything that can remotely translate to "inflated confidence" in the highlighted portion. I don't understand how this quote is relevant to your case at all. It looks like you pulled something he said at random and decided it demonstrated "falsely inflated confidence" to... well, inflate your case. Now this part makes me think again that you're talking out of your ass.
dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:52 pm
so nanook had shit all on sig and just bullied him out of the thread while fake claiming to have a red peak on him? and no one's discussing that?
Nanook has made similar plays in the past. In the recent baseball game that I hosted, he faked a red peek on Long Con (who turned out to actually be mafia) when he was actually vanilla. It worked brilliantly there. I never believed his claim today, but I liked it as a play. I became wary of sig because he did not address anything in a meaningful way.
dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:52 pm
so nanook had shit all on sig and just bullied him out of the thread while fake claiming to have a red peak on him? and no one's discussing that?
Nanook has made similar plays in the past. In the recent baseball game that I hosted, he faked a red peek on Long Con (who turned out to actually be mafia) when he was actually vanilla. It worked brilliantly there. I never believed his claim today, but I liked it as a play. I became wary of sig because he did not address anything in a meaningful way.
technically he wasn't vanilla, he was a doc, which was the reason he knew he could fake. but whatever
do you actually think nanook was straight up lying the whole time here, not that he did get a result that was unreliable/not 100% confirmation, as he said? everything he said causes me to believe the latter. which should answer [mention]dunya[/mention]'s question as well, no I don't suspect nanook because he could have been telling the truth and just had wrong info.
I guess sig being vanilla confuses that idea a little, since I'm not sure what kind of ability nanook would have in that scenario. hm
Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:35 pm
DDL/Nanook/Nutella mafia? I think it's possible.
yes, but maybe switch one of them for gman. and not nutella. nutella is definitely scum.
Russtifinko wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:36 pm
Linki: TH, argue with DDL all you want about how to play the game. You guys are fighting and I get that. But is it really unreasonable for me (or anyone for that matter) to ask you to make some contribution, whatever it may be, no matter how small, to trying to find baddies? Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that not what you signed up for?
wow this is very discouraging. TH is one of my strongest town reads. everyone from day 1 has been shitting on how they are playing by claiming they aren't doing enough. stop putting them down with the sarcasm and condesending tone. this is how some people play, they don't have to play the way you expect them to, they don't have to post newspaper texts and huge cases for you all, and if you can't make out the tons of contributions and reads they've been pulling out since day 1, then that's on you, cos i see them loud and clear.
Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:43 pm
Like I feel my posts aren't really being read and that's whats frustrating. It makes me feel misunderstood when I feel like I am making clear and salient points that are being ignored, and the reaction to me is that I'm not doing enough
G-Man wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 2:57 pm
Patching together a reads list yields this:
GOOD VIBES
-Russ: His good on the fake-claim cover roles makes me feel good. A baddie would have clarified with the host.
-Dunya: I like her spunk. She's more assertive and direct than I would suspect a baddie to be.
-Epi: He makes good counter-punches, but how many times have I been duped into civ reading him in the past?
TBD (I need to ISO these for a stronger read)
-DDL
-sig
-Sloonei
-Speed
-Tony
-TH
BAD VIBES
-MP: This might be old bias due to his high-volume style of play. It's a soft ping, so don't take it the wrong way.
-Nutella: Equal parts old bias and not feeling much of anything despite the volume of her ISO.
-Mac: He keeps coming back to low-hanging fruit. Lazy for a civvie to do; wise for a baddie. It's never lost its appeal. I am low-hanging fruit, I realize this, so my judgement may be a tad harsh.
-Nanook: Maybe it's a lack of familiarity, but something in his play rubs me the wrong way. Rhyme scheme in moderation and play the game, friendo.
All four of his "BAD" reads come with built-in concessions. I wouldn't quite call it hedging or "wishywashy"; instead G is admitting the flaw in all of his reads ("old bias" x2, "may be a tad harsh", "Maybe it's lack of familiarity"). The effect suggests a player who is tentative because he knows his reads are wrong, as opposed to a player who is keeping an open mind.
Okay, you do have the "knows his reads are wrong" part here. I guess I just glossed over that because I disagreed, I thought his hedges were pretty natural. Looking again I can understand why you saw what you saw. I think I still disagree.
See that's why I don't believe you right now. You waved away my case as "not a case at all" (paraphrasing), and are now admitting to not having read it closely. That has been the impression I've been getting this entire time. "Tell sloonei he's wrong" rather than "Engage with the points sloonei is making." Bogus. Stupendously bogus!
The same thing comes out when he elaborates on his nanook read:
He needs more time to post. He doesn't have much, but I will say this:
-Not a fan of his insistence on rhyming. Yes, it’s cheeky and fun but even I won’t encourage everyone to post solely in rhymes. Not a fan of his repetition of it. (-1)
...is strange coming from a guy who insists on practicing strange and quirky gimmicks all the time (his posts all start with a P, this time, by the way).
It's doubtful to me that someone of G-Man's quirky caliber would characterize posting in rhymes as something bad or inscrutable. We understand song lyrics just fine (well, most. We have Yes and Led Zeppelin...)
I would lynch G-Man today.
Peculiar? Yes. Hypocritical? Perhaps. In this game, there is a limit to how beneficial the rhymes are. You can fit them in here and there between prose as well. Once the benefit is over, sticking with the rhymes just impairs communication. I think it’s his apparent stubbornness to abstain from prose more so than the use of rhyme. My play experience with him is quite limited. If he’s quirky like me, then it might make sense. I lack that context. I’m voting for Nanook now so I have a vote on the board as I start ISOing the people I have little to no read on.
This post also feels as though it has a sort of falsely inflated confidence, like he is overcompensating when pushed on a read that is weak.
This point I don't get at all. I don't see anything that can remotely translate to "inflated confidence" in the highlighted portion. I don't understand how this quote is relevant to your case at all. It looks like you pulled something he said at random and decided it demonstrated "falsely inflated confidence" to... well, inflate your case. Now this part makes me think again that you're talking out of your ass.
The highlighted portion is not where I'm getting the inflated confidence from. That is a confusing bit of marking from me, oops. The highlighted bit coincides with the previous point, framed above the spoiler. The non-highlighted portion is what generated the "inflated confidence" remark. That rhetorical posturing at the beginning, the self-vindication, it all feels kind of rehearsed to me, like he thought it over a few times before hitting submit. Like Mac said:
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:49 pm
When I rand wolf I am always tailoring my posts, deleting them, walking away from the game etc.
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:03 pm
I guess sig being vanilla confuses that idea a little, since I'm not sure what kind of ability nanook would have in that scenario. hm
this method and ruins the game for townies. he made us waste a whole day thinking "we netted sig in the bag" because he had suspicions of him day 1, which is kinda selfish. if nanook is bad, i'll tip my hat. if he's town, i don't care how many scum he caught that way in the last game, that ruins the game for townies and is no fun.
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:03 pm
I guess sig being vanilla confuses that idea a little, since I'm not sure what kind of ability nanook would have in that scenario. hm
this method and ruins the game for townies. he made us waste a whole day thinking "we netted sig in the bag" because he had suspicions of him day 1, which is kinda selfish. if nanook is bad, i'll tip my hat. if he's town, i don't care how many scum he caught that way in the last game, that ruins the game for townies and is no fun.
I don't think that's what happened. Or at least, I never considered sig to be "in the bag." I viewed nanook's claim as a play to get sig talking. sig's response was to not talk. That is why I was on board with the lynch.
dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:52 pm
so nanook had shit all on sig and just bullied him out of the thread while fake claiming to have a red peak on him? and no one's discussing that?
Nanook has made similar plays in the past. In the recent baseball game that I hosted, he faked a red peek on Long Con (who turned out to actually be mafia) when he was actually vanilla. It worked brilliantly there. I never believed his claim today, but I liked it as a play. I became wary of sig because he did not address anything in a meaningful way.
All the more reason for Nanook to make the same play as a baddie here
dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:13 pm
nutella defending gman so much is a hard pill to swallow when i saw them w/w. but i'm gonna blame sloonei for making her talk about gman basically.
I don't really care about G-man at all in this exchange. We could just as easily be talking about skittles. By extension, I hardly see this as her "defending g-man"; it's more about accusing or discrediting me.
dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:52 pm
so nanook had shit all on sig and just bullied him out of the thread while fake claiming to have a red peak on him? and no one's discussing that?
Nanook has made similar plays in the past. In the recent baseball game that I hosted, he faked a red peek on Long Con (who turned out to actually be mafia) when he was actually vanilla. It worked brilliantly there. I never believed his claim today, but I liked it as a play. I became wary of sig because he did not address anything in a meaningful way.
All the more reason for Nanook to make the same play as a baddie here
This is a possibility I am considering. He's not a top tier town read.
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:03 pm
I guess sig being vanilla confuses that idea a little, since I'm not sure what kind of ability nanook would have in that scenario. hm
this method and ruins the game for townies. he made us waste a whole day thinking "we netted sig in the bag" because he had suspicions of him day 1, which is kinda selfish. if nanook is bad, i'll tip my hat. if he's town, i don't care how many scum he caught that way in the last game, that ruins the game for townies and is no fun.
I don't think that's what happened. Or at least, I never considered sig to be "in the bag." I viewed nanook's claim as a play to get sig talking. sig's response was to not talk. That is why I was on board with the lynch.
no, it wasn't to get sig talking it was to get sig to ROLE CLAIM. why do you think it's fair to do that then? i think nanook should role claim now or prepare to be lynched.
sloonei why is ddl such a strong town read for you, please? if you've already addressed this, you can ignore me. i'm still catching up with the thread.
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:03 pm
I guess sig being vanilla confuses that idea a little, since I'm not sure what kind of ability nanook would have in that scenario. hm
this method and ruins the game for townies. he made us waste a whole day thinking "we netted sig in the bag" because he had suspicions of him day 1, which is kinda selfish. if nanook is bad, i'll tip my hat. if he's town, i don't care how many scum he caught that way in the last game, that ruins the game for townies and is no fun.
I don't think that's what happened. Or at least, I never considered sig to be "in the bag." I viewed nanook's claim as a play to get sig talking. sig's response was to not talk. That is why I was on board with the lynch.
no, it wasn't to get sig talking it was to get sig to ROLE CLAIM. why do you think it's fair to do that then? i think nanook should role claim now or prepare to be lynched.
I don't think a role claim would have been strictly necessary. It may be unfair for me to say this since I am only talking about myself and the way that I interpreted events and would be likely to interpret hypothetical scenarios. But I would have been satisfied if sig had addressed nanook directly and at least engaged with the things that were being said about or around him. If he'd stuck to his resistance to claiming while doing all of that, I would most likely have been satisfied.
dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:18 pm
sloonei why is ddl such a strong town read for you, please? if you've already addressed this, you can ignore me. i'm still catching up with the thread.
His suspicion of me Day 1 felt very genuine in a way that I've come (vaguely) to associate with town DDL. I think he's a player whose general/authentic style of hunting has a tendency to look off to people. Maybe he's just a bit idiosyncratic. But he pressed me a little on a line of thinking that no one else was seeing Day 1, then dropped it after a brief exchange. Others would then pick up on it more later. I feel like a mafia DDL might have pressed on further, especially when others started agreeing with his observation that my tone was off.
it's late, i'll look into them all tomorrow and leave a few words. nutella and gman are my biggest scum reads. nanook left a very bad taste in my mouth, not gonna lie. and something about russtifiniko feels less authentic and more fabricated when i iso him and read him.
dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:25 pm
i like ddl more this end of phase than i did before, i admit, which is why i wanted your take on things. i'll narrow down my suspects tonight to:
it's late, i'll look into them all tomorrow and leave a few words. nutella and gman are my biggest scum reads. nanook left a very bad taste in my mouth, not gonna lie. and something about russtifiniko feels less authentic and more fabricated when i iso him and read him.
actually ddl isn't off my list. i'll look into him tomorrow too. there's a reason i felt iffy about him and i should make sure the points are addressed
also im totally ignoring tony tbh...no idea where i stand on him.
G-Man wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 2:57 pm
Patching together a reads list yields this:
GOOD VIBES
-Russ: His good on the fake-claim cover roles makes me feel good. A baddie would have clarified with the host.
-Dunya: I like her spunk. She's more assertive and direct than I would suspect a baddie to be.
-Epi: He makes good counter-punches, but how many times have I been duped into civ reading him in the past?
TBD (I need to ISO these for a stronger read)
-DDL
-sig
-Sloonei
-Speed
-Tony
-TH
BAD VIBES
-MP: This might be old bias due to his high-volume style of play. It's a soft ping, so don't take it the wrong way.
-Nutella: Equal parts old bias and not feeling much of anything despite the volume of her ISO.
-Mac: He keeps coming back to low-hanging fruit. Lazy for a civvie to do; wise for a baddie. It's never lost its appeal. I am low-hanging fruit, I realize this, so my judgement may be a tad harsh.
-Nanook: Maybe it's a lack of familiarity, but something in his play rubs me the wrong way. Rhyme scheme in moderation and play the game, friendo.
All four of his "BAD" reads come with built-in concessions. I wouldn't quite call it hedging or "wishywashy"; instead G is admitting the flaw in all of his reads ("old bias" x2, "may be a tad harsh", "Maybe it's lack of familiarity"). The effect suggests a player who is tentative because he knows his reads are wrong, as opposed to a player who is keeping an open mind.
Okay, you do have the "knows his reads are wrong" part here. I guess I just glossed over that because I disagreed, I thought his hedges were pretty natural. Looking again I can understand why you saw what you saw. I think I still disagree.
See that's why I don't believe you right now. You waved away my case as "not a case at all" (paraphrasing), and are now admitting to not having read it closely. That has been the impression I've been getting this entire time. "Tell sloonei he's wrong" rather than "Engage with the points sloonei is making." Bogus. Stupendously bogus!
The same thing comes out when he elaborates on his nanook read:
He needs more time to post. He doesn't have much, but I will say this:
-Not a fan of his insistence on rhyming. Yes, it’s cheeky and fun but even I won’t encourage everyone to post solely in rhymes. Not a fan of his repetition of it. (-1)
...is strange coming from a guy who insists on practicing strange and quirky gimmicks all the time (his posts all start with a P, this time, by the way).
It's doubtful to me that someone of G-Man's quirky caliber would characterize posting in rhymes as something bad or inscrutable. We understand song lyrics just fine (well, most. We have Yes and Led Zeppelin...)
I would lynch G-Man today.
Peculiar? Yes. Hypocritical? Perhaps. In this game, there is a limit to how beneficial the rhymes are. You can fit them in here and there between prose as well. Once the benefit is over, sticking with the rhymes just impairs communication. I think it’s his apparent stubbornness to abstain from prose more so than the use of rhyme. My play experience with him is quite limited. If he’s quirky like me, then it might make sense. I lack that context. I’m voting for Nanook now so I have a vote on the board as I start ISOing the people I have little to no read on.
This post also feels as though it has a sort of falsely inflated confidence, like he is overcompensating when pushed on a read that is weak.
This point I don't get at all. I don't see anything that can remotely translate to "inflated confidence" in the highlighted portion. I don't understand how this quote is relevant to your case at all. It looks like you pulled something he said at random and decided it demonstrated "falsely inflated confidence" to... well, inflate your case. Now this part makes me think again that you're talking out of your ass.
The highlighted portion is not where I'm getting the inflated confidence from. That is a confusing bit of marking from me, oops. The highlighted bit coincides with the previous point, framed above the spoiler. The non-highlighted portion is what generated the "inflated confidence" remark. That rhetorical posturing at the beginning, the self-vindication, it all feels kind of rehearsed to me, like he thought it over a few times before hitting submit. Like Mac said:
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:49 pm
When I rand wolf I am always tailoring my posts, deleting them, walking away from the game etc.
(God I love this new highlight quote feature)
I admitted I had glossed over a detail and am now engaging with it. Okay??
As for the second part... ...I still don't see the inflated confidence. I am reading the whole post you quoted and I don't get it. It's a reasonable defense of his view on nanook. Whatever "posturing" there is, that's just how G-man is. I find it altogether uninteresting.
That’s probably the least significant point in my g-man case anyway. Though I admit that’s also where it started. I had a vague feeling that G-man was puffing out his chest for no reason in this game, and traced it back to that post. On closer inspection, I found a more compelling argument.
I’m more interested in his reads and votes.
Also re: russtifinko, I admit that I have not ISO’d him at all. But in direct interactions he’s felt like the most solidly town player in the thread.
I mean Sig basically said “fuck that and fuck you” and left the thread entirely. How is that my fault again? Like he didn’t even try to play the game, I had suggestive mechanical information that made me think he was >rand scum, what would you have me do? Go “oh well he flipped me off and peaced our, THAT’S A TOWNIE THING TO DO”???
I’ll eat some responsibility for it, but Jesus I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable or bullying of me to ask people to play the game
Look, the false narrative being spread here is that Nanook got Sig lynched. Largely, the lynch was motivated by indifference and would have occurred in any circumstance. It’s not like there were competing wagons and Nanook’s claim pushed one over the top, it’s just that there was a lynch and it happened. We are all at fault for not providing a better solution.
I do think it’s reasonable but not necessary to push for a claim from Nanook. I figured maybe he had tracked Sig to Epi or had some other indeterminate method of guilt.
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:03 pm
I guess sig being vanilla confuses that idea a little, since I'm not sure what kind of ability nanook would have in that scenario. hm
this method and ruins the game for townies. he made us waste a whole day thinking "we netted sig in the bag" because he had suspicions of him day 1, which is kinda selfish. if nanook is bad, i'll tip my hat. if he's town, i don't care how many scum he caught that way in the last game, that ruins the game for townies and is no fun.
Eh... what method? Using the investigation ability that is in your role card?
Best Townie, Maffies 4, 8 and 9 Best Scum, Maffies 3 Best Moderator, Maffies 8 and 9 Most Valuable Player, Maffies 7 and 9 Best Roleplay, Maffies 4 and 6 Spirit Award, Maffies 9 Hall of Fame inductee, Maffies 4
Mafia Universe
Mafia Championship Finalist, 2015 and 2020 Best Town Player, 2020
There is fair criticism to be made about nanook in terms of bullying Sig, but if you signed up for a game where claiming is allowed and you refuse to claim while being lynched, it's your fault. This is the equivallent of refusing to make a night kill if you are mafia. You are betraying your team to make a point.
People get too ideological about whether they are for or against claiming in this mafia site and other ones. It's stupid. Each game has their own mechanics. Sign up for he ones you want, and respect the rules of the game you signed up for. No host should have to deal with a player rebelling against their game design during it.
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:03 pm
I guess sig being vanilla confuses that idea a little, since I'm not sure what kind of ability nanook would have in that scenario. hm
this method and ruins the game for townies. he made us waste a whole day thinking "we netted sig in the bag" because he had suspicions of him day 1, which is kinda selfish. if nanook is bad, i'll tip my hat. if he's town, i don't care how many scum he caught that way in the last game, that ruins the game for townies and is no fun.
I don't think that's what happened. Or at least, I never considered sig to be "in the bag." I viewed nanook's claim as a play to get sig talking. sig's response was to not talk. That is why I was on board with the lynch.
no, it wasn't to get sig talking it was to get sig to ROLE CLAIM. why do you think it's fair to do that then? i think nanook should role claim now or prepare to be lynched.
Yeah I agree with this.
Nanook needs to explain this shit. He needs to claim.
Work has been like a Give a Mouse a Cookie book from hell:
When you tell your boss that you found a $214,000 reporting error that’s existed for over a year without being found until now, he’s probably going ask you to prove it. When you attempt to prove it, he’s probably going to think you’re wrong because you only started three months ago and the problem has been in the books for over a year. When your boss thinks you’re wrong, he’ll ask you to stand in his office for two and a half hours while he tries to come up with his own reason for the error but can’t. When he can’t come up with his own solution, he’ll warm up to your theory. When he warms up to your theory, he’ll ask you to verify it the next day by going over the bank statements from the time the error started through the time it stopped getting larger. When you try to verify the error the next day with the bank statements, you end up spending 16 hours sifting through the sloppily-entered work of someone you can’t even ask questions to because they no longer work there.
I’m behind but I have a day and a half’s worth of work to do today. I will try to catch up.
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