Battlestar Galactica Mafia - GAME OVER

[Ricochet]

7.3.

Linki: then which anti-Cavil Toaster is he, JJJ? We've got Epi and Wilgy (I'm still coming around on that theory as well). If we think the eight listed are split four and four, you think we've found the remaining three good ones?

For my own part, I feel pretty confident that I've IDed Leoben and Caprica 6, and neither of them are Glorfindel. I don't really expect that to influence anybody else though.

In non-specific words that you are able (or allowed) to express, how are we to interpret the notion that you've "ID'd" specific roles / players?

7.4.

I don't find zeebs bad at all during Day 2. I disagree with Rico and his vote another major lynch he didn't get involved in and the only one that produce a baddie. The last lynch was another baddie in Glorf, and Ricco runs away again...

Circumstantial.

Also, you contradict yourself there, yet again. Nutella lynch was "the only one to produce a baddie". Literally one sentence later, "last lynch" produced "another baddie". You're misconstruing lynch results that we know nothing of or don't have full objective info on (Simon/nutella could be assumed baddie-Cylon, meanwhile we don't even know Glorfindel's role, because he wasn't lynched) to make it look like I looked the other way both times.

Wont the final 5 do exactly that, bloom out of nowhere? I disagree here. I think there is a likely hood of two teams and did from day 1.

Yes, the Final Five may "bloom out of nowhere", but lore doesn't lead to the assumption they will all be Mafia. The topic with LoRab was on there being 2 Cylon Mafia teams. There's hardly any numbers, within the Cylon ranks, including how the Final Five may convert, to express certainty in this theory.

Rico is way to obsessed with the checkerboard and checking patterns being respected and not opening up to interpretation and manipulation.

Fixed it for you. Even so, what do you mean to say with my obsession about the checkerboard and what does it tell you, in ways that you might suspect me? You've just thrown this sentence out there, with no effect.

[quote="rabbit8"Re: Zebra, two clarifications: 1) it's not about "relying on meta", it's about reasoning and voting on meta alone, and quite wild meta, too, and 2) what I see her doing here she did as a baddie before. I don't have strong recollection of this being her civ MO or at least comparatively null on how she does business.

Just bullshit. [/quote]

If you say so. You don't say why so, you just say so. So...

[Dex]

Dex - again. Explain it to me like I'm dumb
Cuz I really . Why Wilgy civ and not glor? What am I missing?

My Wilgy case is here.

My case against Glorfindel has three legs. 1) His repetitive but generally contentless posts. 2) He was the last non-declarer to declare before the law was repealed, and did it to save himself, a cylon attribute. 3) By process of elimination. I believe I know who the last two anti-Cavil cylons are. They're not Glorfindel.

In non-specific words that you are able (or allowed) to express, how are we to interpret the notion that you've "ID'd" specific roles / players?

From posts in the thread I believe I've deduced the two roles mentioned above. It's just a personal belief. I have no info or role power.

[Polo]

SO say we all!!!

I'm off to the ballpark to catch a game and won't be back before game-dawn, so I just wanted to make an if-I-die-before-I-wake post.

My intention is to look to players particularly hostile and aggressive towards anti-Cavil cylons, Epi, LoRab and Wilgy. It looks to me like the Cavil cylons have a particular interest in killing them, like they may not need to kill all the humans, but they definitely need to kill them.

There were technically four non-claimers when the Cylon Amnesty law was repealed, but practically only two. Epi doesn't count because why bother, and Vomp doesn't count because Vomp. That leaves Rico and Obscure, both of which I am highly suspicious of. Rico wouldn't declare because it was somehow not in the best civ interests for him to claim unless he was the last one to do it, which was never going to happen. Obscure wouldn't declare out of fear of punishment for triggering an event, which is balderdash.

My strongest civ reads are Insert (based largely on Silver's play), S~V~S, and the Marmot. Protect and nourish them.

I would add Matt to that list, but some of his ideas, for example that sig/glorf = Gaius/Cap 6 are unhelpful. I don't think he's being malevolent; I just think he likes coming up with ideas. I would include Polo except for his focused insistence that we should kill Cavil before Cain, even though we have no idea who Cavil is and even after Cain was already dead. And I'd have included Drum except for his Ahabish need to kill Wilgy.

Finally, please do not let up on lynching Glorfindel tomorrow.

SVS is my strongest mafia read.

[Polo]

Epignosis - Town
DrWilgy - Town
Glorfindel - MAFIA

[Polo]

Folks, Glorfindel's survival by claiming last day is enough to warrant his lynch. There is no plausible way he's not a Cylon.

S~V~S is mafia Cylon and we need her lynched ASAP.

[Ricochet]

Dex - again. Explain it to me like I'm dumb
Cuz I really . Why Wilgy civ and not glor? What am I missing?

My Wilgy case is here.

My case against Glorfindel has three legs. 1) His repetitive but generally contentless posts. 2) He was the last non-declarer to declare before the law was repealed, and did it to save himself, a cylon attribute. 3) By process of elimination. I believe I know who the last two anti-Cavil cylons are. They're not Glorfindel.

In non-specific words that you are able (or allowed) to express, how are we to interpret the notion that you've "ID'd" specific roles / players?

From posts in the thread I believe I've deduced the two roles mentioned above. It's just a personal belief. I have no info or role power.

Question: Is Wilgy on the good side and within the margin of those two anti-Cavil roles, in your process of elimination?

Question 2: Wilgy and you had a small banter a while back on the use of the word "God" in certain context. Should I look into interpreting anything out of this, in your opinion?

Folks, Glorfindel's survival by claiming last day is enough to warrant his lynch. There is no plausible way he's not a Cylon.

S~V~S is mafia Cylon and we need her lynched ASAP.

That's pretty generic, though. What makes Glorfindel to you a bad Cylon?

Also, if SVS is mafia Cylon, do you think she would have bussed nutella Day Two the way she did?

[Polo]

Dex - again. Explain it to me like I'm dumb
Cuz I really . Why Wilgy civ and not glor? What am I missing?

My Wilgy case is here.

My case against Glorfindel has three legs. 1) His repetitive but generally contentless posts. 2) He was the last non-declarer to declare before the law was repealed, and did it to save himself, a cylon attribute. 3) By process of elimination. I believe I know who the last two anti-Cavil cylons are. They're not Glorfindel.

In non-specific words that you are able (or allowed) to express, how are we to interpret the notion that you've "ID'd" specific roles / players?

From posts in the thread I believe I've deduced the two roles mentioned above. It's just a personal belief. I have no info or role power.

Question: Is Wilgy on the good side and within the margin of those two anti-Cavil roles, in your process of elimination?

Question 2: Wilgy and you had a small banter a while back on the use of the word "God" in certain context. Should I look into interpreting anything out of this, in your opinion?

Folks, Glorfindel's survival by claiming last day is enough to warrant his lynch. There is no plausible way he's not a Cylon.

S~V~S is mafia Cylon and we need her lynched ASAP.

That's pretty generic, though. What makes Glorfindel to you a bad Cylon?

Also, if SVS is mafia Cylon, do you think she would have bussed nutella Day Two the way she did?

Because we've come to know who are the civ Cylons: Epi and Wilgy.

Yes, she would; because doing that would rid her of ANY attention whatsoever - exactly what a mafia boss needs. I believe she's John Cavil.

[bea]

All Along the Watchtower.

Just testing.

there must be some way out of here....

not test fulfilled so much as wishful thinking.
Keep not being bad K? Cuz you being civ is important to how I see the game k?

[Ricochet]

Sig's vote doesn't show up homologated in the Voting Records.

linki: what about a third civ Cylon? See Dex's link above on Leoben arguably counting as such.

[Polo]

I am standing by my word and I'm going to vote now: vote S~V~S.

I'll write a big post when I get home.

I'm perfectly fine with a Glorfindel lynch and I endorse it too, but I'll try to convince you all to vote for S~V~S.

[Ricochet]

All Along the Watchtower.

Just testing.

there must be some way out of here....

not test fulfilled so much as wishful thinking.
Keep not being bad K? Cuz you being civ is important to how I see the game k?

What does this mean? Can Dex "stop" "not being bad"?

[Ricochet]

You've voted very early throughout a number of cycles, Polo. Is it in your nature or is there any other impulse for you to do so?

[Matt]

So Say We All

QUESTION for 3J

Exactly how many times have you missed the salute of "So Say We All" ?

To the Admiral

Epignosis - I'm going to lean town on Epi but he gives me the heebies. I think if Cavil can recruit, which isn't a certainty but still, if he can...then Epi would be the perfect player to recruit. Epi also avoided my True Identity Act idea, and when asked on it, said "Doesn't matter what I think". Hrm. Still...town.

DrWilgy - I think it was in my massive catch up when apparently there was some super idea about Wilgy being civilian and I must've missed it. Oh well. Bad. Tbh I never know about Wilgy, but default is bad.

Glorfindel - sig coming in here and saying nothing but pretty much "yep totes 3J that's why I think Glorfy's town"...yeah if sig is Gaius then I think Glorfy is town. If sig is not Gaius, then they're bad together? Town tho.

@Dex - I do like to come up with ideas. Derp.

[Polo]

You've voted very early throughout a number of cycles, Polo. Is it in your nature or is there any other impulse for you to do so?

Sometimes I'm very certain of who I believe needs to be lynched. S~V~S is mafia and we need her gone.

[bea]

SO say we all!!!

I'm off to the ballpark to catch a game and won't be back before game-dawn, so I just wanted to make an if-I-die-before-I-wake post.

My intention is to look to players particularly hostile and aggressive towards anti-Cavil cylons, Epi, LoRab and Wilgy. It looks to me like the Cavil cylons have a particular interest in killing them, like they may not need to kill all the humans, but they definitely need to kill them.

There were technically four non-claimers when the Cylon Amnesty law was repealed, but practically only two. Epi doesn't count because why bother, and Vomp doesn't count because Vomp. That leaves Rico and Obscure, both of which I am highly suspicious of. Rico wouldn't declare because it was somehow not in the best civ interests for him to claim unless he was the last one to do it, which was never going to happen. Obscure wouldn't declare out of fear of punishment for triggering an event, which is balderdash.

My strongest civ reads are Insert (based largely on Silver's play), S~V~S, and the Marmot. Protect and nourish them.

I would add Matt to that list, but some of his ideas, for example that sig/glorf = Gaius/Cap 6 are unhelpful. I don't think he's being malevolent; I just think he likes coming up with ideas. I would include Polo except for his focused insistence that we should kill Cavil before Cain, even though we have no idea who Cavil is and even after Cain was already dead. And I'd have included Drum except for his Ahabish need to kill Wilgy.

Finally, please do not let up on lynching Glorfindel tomorrow.

SVS is my strongest mafia read.

why? I've been town reading her for 6 days so if I've effed up my reads, Imma need some detailed explanations of exactly how I've been wrong.



*waves* speak of the devil - hi matt -how's it?

[Dex]

Question: Is Wilgy on the good side and within the margin of those two anti-Cavil roles, in your process of elimination?

Yes. There are four altogether (this is lore, btw). Epi, LoRab, Wilgy, and one other.

Question 2: Wilgy and you had a small banter a while back on the use of the word "God" in certain context. Should I look into interpreting anything out of this, in your opinion?

I honestly don't recall this, so even if it was me I don't think it was of any particular significance.


I'm voting Glorfindel.

[Ricochet]

Matt, do you want me to claim today?

[bea]

also - polo - this is not saying I don't trust you - just me saying I need more than someone saying they think svs is bad for me to go against my gut on someone I've known years, hope fully to someday be able to read and each game think I might be getting closer - ya know?

linki - rico you are an instigator. CLAIM NOW RICO OR I LYNCH YOU AT DAY BREAK! (feel better now?)

[bea]

All Along the Watchtower.

Just testing.

there must be some way out of here....

not test fulfilled so much as wishful thinking.
Keep not being bad K? Cuz you being civ is important to how I see the game k?

What does this mean? Can Dex "stop" "not being bad"?

No dex can't stop or start doing anything that's not in his role card nature. That was more my wishful "please don't be anything more than what I think you are especially as people are starting to say you might be bad and that concerns me." - ya dig?


I think dex gets it even if you don't.

right?

[Matt]

*waves* speak of the devil - hi matt -how's it?

Bea!! Pretty good, just gettin' off work. Tomorrow I get to work 10 to 9 yay. You know how it is, tho. Btw I think some people think you're bad, are you bad?

I honestly don't recall this, so even if it was me I don't think it was of any particular significance.

You literally commented on it, tho. Wut?

GTH reads on everyone
Zebra - Good
Bea - Good
BR - Good
Dex - God
DrumBeats - Good
Epi - Good
Glorf - Bad
G-Man - Good
JJJ - Bad
Juliets - Good
LC - Good
Marmot - Bad
Matt - Good
OA - Bad
Polo - Good
Rico - Bad
SVS - Good
Sig - Bad
Silver - Good
SokothQultuq - Bad
Daisy - Good
Vompatti - ???

Please... you're embarrassing me.

But I could totes see a bad Wilgster putting that shit on you just for funnies.

Matt, do you want me to claim today?

No.

Btw RIP MARMOT. You'll be missed, sir.

[Dex]

I think dex gets it even if you don't.

right?

Yep. And right back atcha.

[Dex]

You literally commented on it, tho. Wut?

Ah, THAT. I was just making a funny out of a typo.

[bea]

So Say We All

QUESTION for 3J

Exactly how many times have you missed the salute of "So Say We All" ?

To the Admiral

Epignosis - I'm going to lean town on Epi but he gives me the heebies. I think if Cavil can recruit, which isn't a certainty but still, if he can...then Epi would be the perfect player to recruit. Epi also avoided my True Identity Act idea, and when asked on it, said "Doesn't matter what I think". Hrm. Still...town.

DrWilgy - I think it was in my massive catch up when apparently there was some super idea about Wilgy being civilian and I must've missed it. Oh well. Bad. Tbh I never know about Wilgy, but default is bad.

Glorfindel - sig coming in here and saying nothing but pretty much "yep totes 3J that's why I think Glorfy's town"...yeah if sig is Gaius then I think Glorfy is town. If sig is not Gaius, then they're bad together? Town tho.

@Dex - I do like to come up with ideas. Derp.

psst? where did you ever come up with the idea that Cavil could recruit?

Just curious. You've mentioned this idea more than once and I'm not sure where it came from.

linki -matt - I do know. I've one more day of day shift then 4 days of night shift then vaca and comic con. Also - yea - some people think I'm bad.

I'm unsure why and no one wants to talk to me about why they think I'm bad. I've responded to them, they don't answer. Doesn't that seem weird?

Also - no I'm not bad. I'm ALWAYS as I've claimed to be - a human with cylon sympathies. Does that make me bad to you? Do you think that might be why others think I'm bad?

[Matt]

Rico haha. I was just thinking about Talking Heads and how insane I got over you not properly...god I don't even remember what it was but I felt you were purposely messing up the Day 0 challenge haha. That was my first game back after two years and it was fun meeting you that way.



Oh, btw, that was kinda in response to Bea calling Rico an instigator. I probably deserve it bea.

[Ricochet]

also - polo - this is not saying I don't trust you - just me saying I need more than someone saying they think svs is bad for me to go against my gut on someone I've known years, hope fully to someday be able to read and each game think I might be getting closer - ya know?

linki - rico you are an instigator. CLAIM NOW RICO OR I LYNCH YOU AT DAY BREAK! (feel better now?)

[Ricochet]

All Along the Watchtower.

Just testing.

there must be some way out of here....

not test fulfilled so much as wishful thinking.
Keep not being bad K? Cuz you being civ is important to how I see the game k?

What does this mean? Can Dex "stop" "not being bad"?

No dex can't stop or start doing anything that's not in his role card nature. That was more my wishful "please don't be anything more than what I think you are especially as people are starting to say you might be bad and that concerns me." - ya dig?

I think dex gets it even if you don't.

right?

I dig.

*further scribbles in his notebook thoughts on what Bea's role might be*

[bea]

I am standing by my word and I'm going to vote now: vote S~V~S.
I
I'm perfectly fine with a Glorfindel lynch and I endorse it too, but I'll try to convince you all to vote for S~V~S.

I have to say wait wot?? You just mention that you find her evol at the start of the day - you give NO reason for thinking it - vote her and say "I'll come back later and explain and hopefully convince you."

Sir - I'm sorry but the burden of proof is on you here. From where I sit the way to do this at the beginning of the day phase is to actually present a case - then vote.

From where I sit - you can comfortably endorse or not endorse a glor lynch at this point depending on what the wind says - and also - maybe make a case that svs is bad and no matter how weak said case is - you can say "well I stood by my beliefs before I stated why I believed them." I can't possibly be bad for that.

THIS right here makes me suspish of you. Not that you suspect svs - that you said you thought she was bad, made no attempt to make a case on her- maybe promised it later - and expect that maybe you will convince the rest of us. like less than 12 hours into a 48 hour cycle. This at BEST implys you have info and are doing it the wrong way. By my standing at worst it means you are trying to throw shade and hoping eveyone will gloss over and roll with it.

Please tell me where I'm wrong because tbh, I dislike both those scenarios.

[Ricochet]

Polo has made posts on suspecting SVS previously, if that's what you're looking for, bea.

[bea]

Rico haha. I was just thinking about Talking Heads and how insane I got over you not properly...god I don't even remember what it was but I felt you were purposely messing up the Day 0 challenge haha. That was my first game back after two years and it was fun meeting you that way.



Oh, btw, that was kinda in response to Bea calling Rico an instigator. I probably deserve it bea.

deserve what matt?

linki - thanks rico - I will iso them in the am then. I'm sorry - it from memory felt out of left field.

[Matt]

psst? where did you ever come up with the idea that Cavil could recruit?

Just curious. You've mentioned this idea more than once and I'm not sure where it came from.

linki -matt - I do know. I've one more day of day shift then 4 days of night shift then vaca and comic con. Also - yea - some people think I'm bad.

I'm unsure why and no one wants to talk to me about why they think I'm bad. I've responded to them, they don't answer. Doesn't that seem weird?

Also - no I'm not bad. I'm ALWAYS as I've claimed to be - a human with cylon sympathies. Does that make me bad to you? Do you think that might be why others think I'm bad?

Ah, the recruiting thing is probably one of the more "unhelpful" thoughts I have. I'm not even sure I came up it, I didn't think I did to be honest. Just saying in case he can, though.

Comic con!!

I haven't really been following the case on you. I thought it had to do with you and nutella, tho, or you and Lorab, or you and SVS. Lol. Maybe cuz you wouldn't claim?

Linki - Deserve getting poked. Derp.

[Ricochet]

Well I remember bea not looking very fresh coming out of that nutella lynch, but she sort of dropped off my radar, because I think I had picked up on her hinting at something.

There's also a case rabbit made on her, he seems to suspect her heavily.

[Polo]

I am standing by my word and I'm going to vote now: vote S~V~S.
I
I'm perfectly fine with a Glorfindel lynch and I endorse it too, but I'll try to convince you all to vote for S~V~S.

I have to say wait wot?? You just mention that you find her evol at the start of the day - you give NO reason for thinking it - vote her and say "I'll come back later and explain and hopefully convince you."

Sir - I'm sorry but the burden of proof is on you here. From where I sit the way to do this at the beginning of the day phase is to actually present a case - then vote.

From where I sit - you can comfortably endorse or not endorse a glor lynch at this point depending on what the wind says - and also - maybe make a case that svs is bad and no matter how weak said case is - you can say "well I stood by my beliefs before I stated why I believed them." I can't possibly be bad for that.

THIS right here makes me suspish of you. Not that you suspect svs - that you said you thought she was bad, made no attempt to make a case on her- maybe promised it later - and expect that maybe you will convince the rest of us. like less than 12 hours into a 48 hour cycle. This at BEST implys you have info and are doing it the wrong way. By my standing at worst it means you are trying to throw shade and hoping eveyone will gloss over and roll with it.

Please tell me where I'm wrong because tbh, I dislike both those scenarios.

I've mentiones my suspicions of here vefore.


And I know thw burden is on me, which is why I said I'll post a proper reasoning post on this vote later.

[bea]

psst? where did you ever come up with the idea that Cavil could recruit?

Just curious. You've mentioned this idea more than once and I'm not sure where it came from.

linki -matt - I do know. I've one more day of day shift then 4 days of night shift then vaca and comic con. Also - yea - some people think I'm bad.

I'm unsure why and no one wants to talk to me about why they think I'm bad. I've responded to them, they don't answer. Doesn't that seem weird?

Also - no I'm not bad. I'm ALWAYS as I've claimed to be - a human with cylon sympathies. Does that make me bad to you? Do you think that might be why others think I'm bad?

Ah, the recruiting thing is probably one of the more "unhelpful" thoughts I have. I'm not even sure I came up it, I didn't think I did to be honest. Just saying in case he can, though.

Comic con!!

I haven't really been following the case on you. I thought it had to do with you and nutella, tho, or you and Lorab, or you and SVS. Lol. Maybe cuz you wouldn't claim?

Linki - Deserve getting poked. Derp.

KK - so you don't know where you got the idea that Cavil could recruit. You have no idea about the case against me. You are just gone from day 1-4 super civ to day 6

I know busy - for sure - but you know - if the shoe here was on my foot - what would you say about me if I were doing what you are doing?

also - rico - wabbit did make a big post about me. I responded to it - I thought - and again - no one answers me - what's a girl to think?

[Matt]

KK - so you don't know where you got the idea that Cavil could recruit. You have no idea about the case against me. You are just gone from day 1-4 super civ to day 6

I know busy - for sure - but you know - if the shoe here was on my foot - what would you say about me if I were doing what you are doing?

I dunno. Maybe Cavil recruited me night 4?

[bea]

I was leaning another way with your role playing comments and also your comments about death to all cylons and their sympathizers comments *while* role playing - but yea. You've been a bit shady for a while matt. And it worries me.

[Ricochet]

KK - so you don't know where you got the idea that Cavil could recruit. You have no idea about the case against me. You are just gone from day 1-4 super civ to day 6

I know busy - for sure - but you know - if the shoe here was on my foot - what would you say about me if I were doing what you are doing?

I dunno. Maybe Cavil recruited me night 4?

I think you deserve a lynch for this comment alone. If you're recruited bad, all the better, we suppress your WIFOM bullsuit. If you're town, I actually have no idea how the frak it can cross your mind to play like this and leave such a comments up in the air, for shits and giggles. FFS.

If you are anything but town in this game, I am done playing in any future game you sign up in.

*slams the door on his way to rehearsals*

[Vompatti]

What day is it?

[Matt]

Lol. I just ISO'd you bea and you came up with the idea of Cavil recruiting. Derp.

Ok - so this bit is mostly for Matt cuz he's the one who has been so vocal re:structure - but anyone can feel free to chime in...

I was thinking, that given the res ships and maybe the res HUB, if the cylons start off being unable to die *and* have BTS that's a heck of an early game advantage structure wise. Maybe to sort of balance that advantage cylons don't start with BTS - but rather are recruited by Cavil. Since as the show goes on, there is more and more distention in the ranks between the cylons and even within particular models themselves it would both aid the game and keep things in line lore wise.

Anyway - it was something I was tossinig around in my head. Might be worth something later. I could also be dead wrong.

As for me worrying you, c'mon bea I'm always shady good or bad. But lynch away, I really don't care one way or the other with the exception of the loss of a day phase.

Oh, and I've never wanted death to all Cylons or their sympathizers, but I did want them pressured heavily. I still find it suss that several never even claimed but I'm sure at endgame I'll see what the dealio is and if I messed up by going against that law.

Linki Rico - Like, calm down Rico. It's nearly 2am in the morning, just got off a shift and I'm havin' fun with bea who is like one of my favorite people in the Mafia universe. Take a breather my friend.

bea, I do apologize for effing around like that, m'bad I'm tired and just havin' fun.

As for a real answer since Rico is gettin' all intense...

No, I haven't been following the case on you. I did a massive 22 page catch up the other day after missing several days worth of posting and people's suss of you kind of just went over my head. As I said you're one of my faves, I don't like to think of you as bad, and I can't ever tell one way or the other. Tbh I kind of feel guilty thinking your'e bad if you're not, and I'm not. Now If I'm bad, different story.

Dunno why you referred to me as "super civ", I thought you've been labeling me as bad for quite some time now. Am I wrong?

[Matt]

What day is it?

Rico, any words for Vompatti's play? No?

Not that I mind, I think you're pretty awesome Vomps. It's Day 7, btw, or very early Tuesday morning, depending on what answer you were looking for.

[Vompatti]

What day is it?

Rico, any words for Vompatti's play? No?

Not that I mind, I think you're pretty awesome Vomps. It's Day 7, btw, or very early Tuesday morning, depending on what answer you were looking for.

I think I might be scattered between the past and the future k

[Golden]

Vompatti is henceforth put in the brig and silenced for the rest of the day for his fifth failure to address the Admiral appropriately.

This is a warning. Another failure will result in execution.

[S~V~S]

Hey gang,

Admiral Adama here. Weird couple of days, huh? It's starting to seem like everyone is a cylon except for me, ya bunch of creepy space robots! Well listen here. I'm your Admiral, proudly so, and that means I have to take it upon myself to facilitate peaceful communication between the humans and the space robots. I require that everyone state clearly and publicly what the believe the allegiances to be of the following likely cylons: Epignosis, DrWilgy, and Glorfindel. This is a direct order, and know that I am giving it with the best intentions. No exceptions. Everyone must submit a response before the end of the day or I will be forced to take action with my rightful authority as Admiral. Thank you for your cooperation.

|||@@@@@@@@@|||
|||SO SAY WE ALL.|||
|||#############|||

So Say We All

Epi: Civ
Wilgy: Civ
Glorfindel: Bad

And I agree that Six is quite possibly Indy, but I don't think she is any of these people. And I don't think sig is the President. Since no one was lynched, that means one of them had the most votes as the host has told us immunity means zero votes. Probably sig, since what would be the point of Glorfindel claiming if he was not a cylon? And that means lynch save. Most people seem to have thought sig was more likely to be bad, so I am not sure who would have saved him, if not himself. ALTHOUGH I tend to think of a lynch *switch* as a baddie thing and a lynch *save* as a civvie thing. So there is that.

But be that as it may, I think we need to lynch Glorfindel today, but I also think discussion before votes, kicking it old school, is a good thing.

Hi Polo, Let me ask; is everyone who felt Cain to be a priority bad, or is it just me?

RIP Marmot

[Glorfindel]

7.1

A countereffect of a law that's in no way mentioned in that law sounds like too much crazy stuff happening backstage.

Balancing effect. I used them in a lot of my games.

Well balance comes in the Host design. The Law's content is not the Host's creation. At the very best the Host could moderate the Law the Presidents creates, if necessary, but once issued, if there are "balancing" issues and the Host would need to modify something, again, it would sound like too much crazy backstage stuff. Henceforth, I see not reason to believe a clause that the first baddie Cylon's claim and survival would trigger something, if purely based on the Law.

===

7.2

So no chance of hearing from you why you think you survived the lynch, if it wasn't for you claiming Cylon, huh? Image

Or let me try to understand. Mafia was "perfectly executing" a plan to lynch you (and sig), upon which you claimed Cylon, and Mafia suddenly scrambled to push you further in the lynch. Which you survived.

So you've thwarted Mafia's plan to lynch you by claiming, which resulted in... you... getting lynched.



What about Dex and Polo makes you think they've contributed to the "stitch-up". Polo voted Zebra and Dex was the first to vote you, way ahead of the Day Phase.

Interesting that you mention nothing of players like Matt, G-Man, Sig or Bea, who actively pushed you ahead, nor do you bring up players like DrumBeats or Rabbit, who might look like having tried to even out sig (which, according to you, was also unjustly hunted) with you in the tally, at least for a while. Do they deserve a closer look or not?

Let me just say - I have been playing Mafia games now for just on three years and this Town team is continuing to demonstrate that it is the most inept of any that I have been a part. All I see is this myopic view of the game, it's mechanics and its players. I see next to no objective analysis and lots of bizarre theorizing (G-Man's rainbow list voting records excluded).

I'm sure you've been told this before, but your ways to appeal to your playing years and to emotion are absolutely wild, at every opportunity. I will just say that this paragraph doesn't give me any answers. Objective analysis? Go on then, I've specifically asked you how a number of player (Dex, Matt, G-Man, Sig, Bea - on the side voting you; Polo - on the sideline voting side; Beats or Rabbit - on the voting sig side) look from Day Six lynch and you tell me nothing. Objectively, myopically or otherwise. Is this your idea of being straightforward, while thee rest of us are supposed "myopic", "inept", hooked on "bizarre theory" juju, etc.? Post. On. Point.

I see a lot of people continuing to suspect me. The PROOF that I'm Cylon lay in the proposition that had I claimed immunity under the Cylon Amnesty Act and been the leading wagon at the EoD, the player with the next largest wagon would've been eliminated.
FACT: That didn't happen. Despite how you subjectively interpret whatever happened there is NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE to support that view.

Indeed, there is no 100% proof and evidence and, unless you got that impression from someone else, I see no reason to assume such certainty. Nevertheless, I would say we are closer to such evidence, based on... actually see below.

People assume that what happened was a save on Sig by someone. Again, this is conjecture and was based on the ASSSUMPTION that the lynch passed to him on the basis of what I've written above. No one has yet considered the possibility that the save was on me. I'd like to think that someone out there (even if they won't declare it publicly) is convinced that there is some substance to the way I've interpreted this game.

To be fair, I raised the issue of you having been the save one, but then I found counter-arguments rather convincing. The main one concerning why you went to the trouble of Cylon claiming, if the outcome of you being saved, would have been familiar or expected in your mind. Can you rebut on this, on point?

I'm willing to look at all substances in which to interpret this game, you just have to be more on point about what I should take into consideration and how can that hold up in light of events that have occured.

And yet, what do I find here this morning? Wild assumptions about Presidential lines of success, etc. I don't categorise this as analysis, I think a better analogy would Nero fiddling while Rome burns and all the time, the Mafia are there throwing more fuel on the fire... And yes, I still maintain that this game is rapidly slipping from our grasp. From the content of the discussions I've seen so far this Night phase I seriously and genuinely doubt our Team even possesses the capacity to win this game

Never asked you about any of this. Never asked you about town chances. I frankly also don't care about your views on how bad town is supposed to be doing. It's irrelevant to the energy I invest in this game and the spirit in which I play, and it's always just an added paragraph of (to quote Epig) "doom and gloom" that's not relevant to the topics I wish to discuss with you. Please let us discuss topics on point, the rest of your recurrent impressions are prolix and of no "objective" substance.

To recap the topics I want to discuss and what I've gotten so far from you:

1. How are we to treat your Day Six survival, outside the posibility that your Cylon claim was genuine? | You partially expressed the view that you might have been saved, but you didn't argument it, you've just made an appeal to people being obtuse.

2. You've nominated Dex and Polo and suspects. How did they contribute to the lynches, in a suspicious way? | You never answered.

3. Why do none of the players who actually pushed you close to lynch bother you? Do any of them bother you with how they voted on Day Six? Let's talk Matt, G-Man, Bea, on sig you've already answered. | You never answered.

4. Why do none of the players who actually pushed sig close to lynch bother you, if you claim that both you and sig were in a position to be mislynched, mistreated, manipulated into dying by Mafia? This means DrumBeats and Rabbit. | You never answered.

Let's talk these on point. Not with "you know, I've played this game for so long"; not with "oh the town's perspectives are so deplorable"; not with "I see no winning horizon for the <<Team>>"; not with "nobody understands me".

On point.

So Say We All!

Forgive me my friend for economising on my answer to you - the parts of my response to which you stated that you weren't interested was actually a response to Epi (if I recall correctly) who indicated that he was indeed interested in my answers to my questions. I also apologise if I appeared to not answer your questions to your satisfaction. I will attempt to do so here for you.

1. You should treat my Day six survival based on the evidence in front of you. Whether I claimed or didn't claim is not the point here and anyone who treats it so is being highly disingenuous. The FACT is that the result of the EoD6 was inconclusive. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is simply lying or openly making and assumption - their INTERPRETATION of what happened. It's a very simple principle, INTERPRETATION =/= FACT. You can try to cut it a million different ways, but it will always come down to that.

2. My reference to Dex and Polo related more specifically to their actions post EoD6. I found the timing of their reigniting of the campaign for my lynching and their somewhat creative conclusions around the events at the end of that phase highly suspicious. If one were to look at both of them with a critical eye both for their previous actions and those since, I believe their is cause for wider suspicion. For example, we've been told by Golden that we are to have the benefit of some kind of 'communication from the dead'. This could yield critical information for us that may help us a lot (because, by God I think we need it). What does Dex do? Formulates an utterly unfounded (and untrue) theory about me being someone aligned to a 'Cavill faction', tries to enlist some of the more gullible members of the Town and places his vote on me. Does that seem like undue haste to you? Because it sure does to me.

3. As for the players that voted for me on Day 6, G-Man came as no surprise to me - he's made his feelings toward me very clear. I think he has a lot of potential actually. From my perspective, he seems extremely committed to the game and is capable of structured analysis that is fairly impressive. Where he needs to improve though is his conclusions. Bea, I honestly don't know. She's not someone that has found their way on to my radar yet. I know a couple of people have accused her but I'd need to go back and ISO her - she seems rather innocuous (that is not meant in any kind of offensive way, by the way) to me. I suspect that assuming that she is Town, she's like most everyone here - G-Man or Dex bangs a drum and they simply follow... Matt is a strange one however. I'd not doubted him at all to that point and found his jumping on my wagon to be rather... disappointing. It seems to me that like Sig, he seems to just drop into this game from time to time and I just wonder if he's really 'connected' to what's been happening here. I like however the perspective that he brings to this game and he seems genuinely open to different opinions on the game and is willing to come up with his own ideas on the game which I take as a good sign.

4. On the contrary, the players that voted for Sig bother me a great deal. I'm struggling a little with Rabbit seeing that Zebs whom he replaced (and who had some history with me where we actively read one another accurately) was supportive of me and he (having not played with me before) seems to have taken an alternative view. If I were in his shoes, I think I should be more cautious in abandoning my predecessor's comments and views. Having said that, he appears to be under some pressure himself right now so perhaps I'm a convenient diversion As for Drumbeats, I subscribe to Epi's opinions and think there is a strong likelihood that he may be Mafia.

I hope I've answered your questions to your satisfaction my friend. I'm happy to do what I can to clarify things for you or anyone.

[Glorfindel]

Oh and one other thing @Ricochet and anyone else...

You are not the only ones who invest a lot of energy and who make sacrifices to find time to contribute to this game. I give up a lot of my free time to play these games with you all just like you do. You are not on your own in your commitment to this game. In addition, I extend respect to each of you in the way I interact with you and I would appreciate you extending the same courtesy to me. Thanks.

[Epignosis]

Spoiler: show

SO SAY WE ALL!

Whatever happened at the end of the last Day phase achieved one extremely important thing - it disrupted the Mafia's plans and gave us a valuable opportunity to step back and re-assess what is happening here. Whoever was responsible for that (assuming that it wasn't an 'event') has I think seriously overestimated the ability of the Town to see anything objectively. I think now it will take nothing short of a miracle for us to avoid losing this game...

I'm going to vote for you if you don't start being more specific.

Who is the Mafia and what were their plans?

If you have a valuable opportunity to reassess what is happening here, why can't you state what your assessment is?

Why do civilians need a miracle to win at this stage?

So Say We All!
Pardon my sarcasm here but I thought you were already voting for me (when you're not voting for Drumbeats who in my estimation is a far better bet). The Mafia are our opponents and they are trying to defeat us and in my estimation doing a fine job so far. They would be the ones capitalizing on the (niave, in my opinion) anti-Cylon sentiment that has been rife so far this game. They have very successfully used 'lore' extensively to advance their agenda. I've been saying this for days, it escapes me why you (and others) can't see it (perhaps I should give away communicating in words and draw pictures instead? :P Now before you ask me again, I don't know who the Mafia are (if I did, this game would be near over) but I believe the majority of the Cylons (contrary to popular opinion) are Town aligned. I don't know which ones aren't but I suspect it will be a minority of them - perhaps Cavill and one or two others, with two or three Humans, who knows. We haven't been supplied with that information so we're kinda stumbling around in the dark.

I really don't understand the Final Five thing at all. Sure, five Humans become Cylon but does that mean wholly or partially Mafia Cylon - hasn't been made clear. If anyone has any thoughts on that, I'm all ears. What concerns me is that so many players harbour anti-Cylon intents. To my thinking, these people fall into one of three categories:

1. Humans that have to believe that (I think you can deduce the identity of the specific characters from the index on page 1)
2. The Mafia - It is clearly in the interests of the Mafia Cylons to focus their campaign on the destruction of the non-Mafia (or Town Cylons) as it diverts attention away from the Mafia Human faction - which I think they've done to a remarkable extent.
3. The Town Human population that have been cojolled, hoodwinked, (insert any other suitable verb here) into believing that all (or most Cylons) are their enemies.

I hope that answers your questions - I feel like a voice crying in the wilderness here (not new for me actually :P ) that no one other than 3J is willing to even consider the possibility. In my opinion, we have a more dangerous enemy here than our Mafia team - it's our lack of objectivity that is hurting us more.

I don't understand this. Assuming you are not bad, I know you don't know who the mafia are. You saying this is unhelpful. However, you have made an accusation: That whoever the mafia are, they have "successfully used 'lore' extensively to advance their agenda." Your words.

Now then, that's a very public brush to employ. If that is your accusation, and you genuinely believe it, then it shouldn't take much more effort to name names: Who is successfully using lore to advance the mafia agenda?

[G-Man]

So say we all!

As per the Admiral's orders:

Epignosis: Civ. I'm willing to trust those knowledgeable in lore on this one and he has been on the hunt. The existence of two #8's makes sense for one to be good and one to be bad based on the lore that's been shared.

DrWilgy: Civ. I'm going to trust Dex on this one. He's been rising in my reads despite my hesitancy to trust replacement players. I'm still looking for the hint that a few people think they saw though.

Glorfindel: Mafia. My read on him (and his late claim yesterday) confirm to me that he is a Toaster. I think he is a bad one because of his unwillingness to provide concise and direct answers. Seriously, some of his posts are as convoluted and unhelpful as John Lennon's ghost.


Bea- I saw your post. I will get back to you on it this afternoon. Neighborhood yard sale day! I came in for a "water break." The neighborhood is still swarming with people.

[rabbit8]

So say we all!

Epi: Civ
Glof: Bad
Wigly: Good

[rabbit8]

So yeah, I voted for sig to save my own ass. Anyone who can't understand that and thinks there was some case I made on him, well.....

wabbit -I ask you tried and true. Do you see what I was saying or do you still think I was buddying bad?
at this point in my catch up you have not addressed me after making a fairly large case - and after me responding. I don't know what to make of any of that. Are we good? I feel like we should be on the same page? If there's something I'm missing please clue me in. Cuz I really really think that you and me and svs could all be civs. I know it's crazy talk. but possible...

I still think you're bad.

7.1

A countereffect of a law that's in no way mentioned in that law sounds like too much crazy stuff happening backstage.

Balancing effect. I used them in a lot of my games.

Well balance comes in the Host design. The Law's content is not the Host's creation. At the very best the Host could moderate the Law the Presidents creates, if necessary, but once issued, if there are "balancing" issues and the Host would need to modify something, again, it would sound like too much crazy backstage stuff. Henceforth, I see not reason to believe a clause that the first baddie Cylon's claim and survival would trigger something, if purely based on the Law.

Give me a break. The host has this game planned out. If the player made a law that unbalanced the game the host would balance it. I don't even really care about this point anyway. You like to argue about stupid shit, so he we go.
I don't care what you see as you're bad and did not claim. You will discredit anything that makes those look worse.
===

7.4.

I don't find zeebs bad at all during Day 2. I disagree with Rico and his vote another major lynch he didn't get involved in and the only one that produce a baddie. The last lynch was another baddie in Glorf, and Ricco runs away again...

Circumstantial.

Also, you contradict yourself there, yet again. Nutella lynch was "the only one to produce a baddie". Literally one sentence later, "last lynch" produced "another baddie". You're misconstruing lynch results that we know nothing of or don't have full objective info on (Simon/nutella could be assumed baddie-Cylon, meanwhile we don't even know Glorfindel's role, because he wasn't lynched) to make it look like I looked the other way both times.

So nutella could be bad? Get a fucking backbone already. Or you want people to doubt it? Because a lot of assumptions are being based on her being bad and you seem to think she might not be be? Which is?

The last line I wrote was my opinion, not a contradiction to the fact we've only lynched 1 baddie cylon. You know I didn't contradict myself. You know we don't know if glof is bad. You wrote it right there. You like to twist things and use buzzer words. I get it. You want to make me look bad. It's not working.

Wont the final 5 do exactly that, bloom out of nowhere? I disagree here. I think there is a likely hood of two teams and did from day 1.

Yes, the Final Five may "bloom out of nowhere", but lore doesn't lead to the assumption they will all be Mafia. The topic with LoRab was on there being 2 Cylon Mafia teams. There's hardly any numbers, within the Cylon ranks, including how the Final Five may convert, to express certainty in this theory.

You're the one Glof is talking about using lore to get your agenda done, This is for Epig to see. I don't care if you respond, Rico.

Rico is way to obsessed with the checkerboard and checking patterns being respected and not opening up to interpretation and manipulation.

Fixed it for you. Even so, what do you mean to say with my obsession about the checkerboard and what does it tell you, in ways that you might suspect me? You've just thrown this sentence out there, with no effect.

You changed my words and that's bullshit. So everyone knows YOU added words in the quote. All you had to do was add them under the quote. But you like to twist things. No you're way to obsessed with the bullshit in the game. You're bad and using them as a cover and a spring board to making accusations that someone didn't follow the stupid rules or do what you, a baddies, wants. Trying to control everything or have your hand in everything is a pure mafia tactic. I've fucking pulled it years ago. Like arguing with ika. Control the message, early and often. You're slipping though because you over due it.

[quote="rabbit8"Re: Zebra, two clarifications: 1) it's not about "relying on meta", it's about reasoning and voting on meta alone, and quite wild meta, too, and 2) what I see her doing here she did as a baddie before. I don't have strong recollection of this being her civ MO or at least comparatively null on how she does business.

Just bullshit.

If you say so. You don't say why so, you just say so. So...

You're the meta ninja, I get it. You know what everyone will do based on what they have done because they're fucking robots.

Well done not voting for nutella and now claiming she COULD be bad.

[rabbit8]

I'm going to the lake with my family for Memorial Day weekend. I will be around a lot less.

[ObscureAllure]

Hey gang,

Admiral Adama here. Weird couple of days, huh? It's starting to seem like everyone is a cylon except for me, ya bunch of creepy space robots! Well listen here. I'm your Admiral, proudly so, and that means I have to take it upon myself to facilitate peaceful communication between the humans and the space robots. I require that everyone state clearly and publicly what the believe the allegiances to be of the following likely cylons: Epignosis, DrWilgy, and Glorfindel. This is a direct order, and know that I am giving it with the best intentions. No exceptions. Everyone must submit a response before the end of the day or I will be forced to take action with my rightful authority as Admiral. Thank you for your cooperation.

|||@@@@@@@@@|||
|||SO SAY WE ALL.|||
|||#############|||

So Say We All!

Epignosis (Town)
DrWilgy (Mafia)
Glorfindel (Mafia)

why specifally do you see wilgy and glor as mafia? Please forgive me for missing it - you've spent more time insanified than not this game.

You seem to be allowed now again at night to speak clear and free - why is epi town and glor and wigly bad?? and why when you were insanified your clear posts were all kinda about bea being bad?

while you can - if you really think I am bad - present a case. I'm happy to address concerns - I won't chase shaddows of "bea is bad for no reason"

Actually, no. The insanities just really likes your name. I am neutral on you currently.


And I've ranted about wiggly and glor for like a week real time
And no one listened so I'm kinda just done with explaining it further
If no one will listen.