Recruitment Mafia IV: Dawn of the Clans (End Game)

[Golden]

I can't really do much if anyone thinks the move was distasteful. Honestly, if you have a problem with me because I did it, and you want to vote for me for that reason, I'll understand.

I'm trying to play this game in the spirit of the game, which is to say, it is not a game that is civ vs baddies and I'm trying to play it for what it is.

I do not think epi being alive was in my best interests.

There is only so many times I can say this. If people are upset with me for it then I will take my punishment on the chin, be it a lynch or whatever. I've tried something out, obviously there are some people who are upset. It's like I said to JJ yesterday. From my end, there is no spite or malice intended. Epi has his methods and they are what they are, but in the past when I've been on the end of them I've come out worse off (admittedly in Death and Taxes it allowed me to sub back in and win, but golden 1.0 was worse off). I do think epi being alive was bad for my game, and I specifically wanted to show that in the absence of having a kill there are ways of fighting back. Epi said the feud needed to end and I agreed, so I set out to achieve that. There was no guarantee I would, but it is what I set out to do.

I also do think epi understands a game is a game and knows it isn't personal, but if epi needs an apology I'll freely give it. Epi is the kind of person I feel like, if we played Survivor together, when one of us made the move that beat the other we would turn around and say well played, and hold no grudges. I wouldn't do it to anyone that I didn't think would understand.

[unfurl]

BWT, got a lot votes, maybe is worth lo look at him or his voters, some manipulation may be going on in that situation something I may look into later on

I agree re-reading the BWT voters might be a traditional way to spot some potential bandwagoning, but what manipulation do you plan to unearth, considering the Day officially ended before BWT received 7 out of his 8 total votes?

Mearly that Im curious as to he received 8 votes (looking at the image poll) from Devin-Lorab-TurnipHead-jaggedjimmy -DrWiggly-Golden-Typh-Tranq
More toward the end of the lynch poll
And even if the day ended early, and we have no clue to bwt alliance, I think is intersting to see if people still feel the same about him or if something changed?

[nutella]

SVS, you seem to have missed the point that Typh being a Sorceror means there is a 1 in 7 chance that he was Azura. Rico wanted people's opinions on whether Typh should be rezzed based on that chance and based on the other Sorceror roles he might be.

My answer to Rico: Azura and the Pyromancer are both pretty scary, but the other 5 Sorcerors don't look so bad to me, and again the scariness of a role really depends on what team they end up on. I guess even if Azura kills again on Night 3 we can't rule that out because the kill would have passed to the recruit. And even if he wasn't Azura I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the first recruits to a baddie team. So yeah, you have a point that there would certainly be risk in rezzing Typh. But (and I'm not doing the actual math here, someone should check me ) I think there is a higher chance that he was unrecruited, or possibly a recruited civ.

[G-Man]

My general thoughts:

It's a shame to lose Typh so soon. I hope he comes back for more games (especially when Secret Mafia 3 rolls around). I'm surprised how many people posted before anyone mentioned that Typhoony was one of the Sorcerer roles. Makes me wonder if some people aren't doing their homework after a night post. Seeing as Typh was of the Sorcerer clan, I hope he was the Windscout (death to all seemer powers!). It would be cool if he were none other than Azura or the Magnetarch as well.

Has anyone considered if all the shock and disbelief at Typh's early exit was the point in killing him? I mean, think like a baddie folks! I thought MP's list of people who wouldn't kill Typh Night 1 was garbage and should be ignored. He even came back later and admitted that that list uses flimsy logic. Well then why even post such a list in the first place? Had anyone but MP made such a list and gotten called out on it, MP probably would have been all Dog-Pee Factor 3 on it. He is, indeed, a master back-tracker.

And I see MP broke out the old bully pulpit too. Stay classy, Sockman! I must say that I thought Llama's shade-lob at MP was justified. Then the eruption that ensued made MP v. Llama the new Epi v. Golden, only much more one-sided and ordeal, which quickly made me...


Hey MP- what appeals to you about Position 4? You've voted for it twice now. A few of us are in agreement that it looks the scariest for the civvie cause.

I pondered following the Speaker of Serenity's request to vote for TH but then I remembered that we have no reason to trust the Speaker of Serenity.

JJJ subbing out perhaps? Won't miss your post volume if you do, but I will miss your personality.

I hate, hate, HATE changeable votes!

I honestly give Golden the Coward some brownie points for his ploy against Epi. That's badass yo. I'm still not sure one way or the other on you though.

[nutella]

I too have been weirded out by MP's interest in Position 4 and look forward to his response.

[nutella]

Ah yes, Position 4 is the one with Poison. I thought we all agreed to delay that one as long as we can, since poison is cumulative. Why does MP want it to start so early?

[S~V~S]

Is it really? Everyone else that voiced an opinion on you & Epi seemed to think it was civ on civ. You unilaterally decided that you & he could not coexist, although no one else felt that way, and basically then bragged that YOU had solicited his death when he was NKed.

I have never seen this Golden. I played the very first game you played, and I was one of the people who watched, and understood, yur King Arthur sacrifice. But i have NO idea who is playing this game. None.

I've never played a game in which 90% of people started the game neutral. Every other game I've played has very defined sides. I've never even played a game like the Flash which is Factional. This is literally the first game I've played that is not a normal bad vs civ game of mafia. I have a very strong civ meta when I'm civ, and set out to replicate it when I am bad. But what am I supposed to do when I'm one in a sea of neutrals, and hardly anyone is yet civ?

From my perspective, the best approach in these circumstances is taking out people who I think are least likely to be civ, since I think I'm more likely to end up civ, and also people who I think are least likely to end up on the same team as me.

I'm not sure why this does not make sense, or how many times I would need to explain it to make it make sense. I am not a civ. Nor am I baddie feeling the need to try and be a civ. Nor am I, like in BoB, someone who will eternally be independent, knowing that all I need to do to win is to survive.

In this game, what I need to do is increase the odds of my team winning, even though I don't yet know which team that is. I'm finding my own feet in trying to figure out how to achieve that.

Do you understand it?

Can we talk about Epignosis? You unilaterally decided that he was bad, iirc NO ONE voted for him but you. It is very plausible that it was not your fault that the baddies killed him.

But then you came in & basically bragged that you solicited his death. No one thought he was bad but you. Very seriously. But you didn't care,did you? If i had done this, I would have had 20 votes already, lol.

I have reacted exactly to Epi as you did in this game when bad, then turned around and killed him & WIFOMed my way out of it. But this:

I was not directly responsible for killing epi. I was intentionally baiting people into setting me up, though. I suspected that if I made enough of my intention to kill epi, someone else would do it.

I am very sad to see Typhoony die already, I agree with SVS it's a lame kill hope you get a rezz, typh.

I honestly don't know whether to take you at face value or not. It's almost like someone has hacked into Goldens account.

Linki @ Golden, I still think you are missing the point, but OK. Thank you for at least mentioning Epi in that post.

Linki @ Gman, you're wrong. It isn't garbage, when a person plays one game a year, killing them on night one, for people who know him, is rude. I doubt most of the people on MPs list would have killed him on night one. Not dissimilar to not lynching nubs on day one.

[Ricochet]

I don't remember replying to LoRab's idea, so: Locking the poll/ending the Day early at a stage in which the vote is totally spread and any player could fall victim sounds, in principle, more like a baddie tactic than a civ one. So yes, I think her idea that the Judge was already bought is pretty worthy.

I think I get Golden's point to a certain extent, although I'm not sure if it's the same way he's outlining it himself. With the good vs evil forming gradually from a pool of recruits, this game also adds a third factor of, let's call it, untrustworthiness in how I relate to suspecting people. I don't think I can translate it perfectly into a principle (and the strict good vs evil focused players certainly won't appreciate hearing about any poo-poo third factor nonsense), but in essence, if your vibe/gut/read is that a player X isn't civ or is unlikely to be recruited as a civ, why trust him, why not suspect him and why want him progress. Of course, that doesn't mean you can't focus on actual civ/mafia aligned vibes, considering the game currently has such factions formed and the dichotomy will keep expanding, settling into traditional alignments eventually. But that's why it's a third factor.

But I'll also be the first to admit that all this only makes sense if you are already recruited as a civ or intend to play with a "civ" mentality. This mentality can easily be faked by recruited baddies, in order to basically get rid of potential threats.

Unfortunately, the flaw in Golden's perspective, if indeed this is his perspective, is that by simply saying "I never expected player X to end up in the same team as me" is that, if that team of yours is civ, you're forgetting about the second civ team player X might end up in. However, if that team of yours is bad, you genuinely need that player gone, whether he'll be your opponent in the other baddie team or a civ opponent. Hmmm.

MP said once something about reading Golden "genuine"? Does he mean he finds Golden a recruited civ at this point, hence genuine in the traditional civ vs bad reads?

How can you use "genuine" for an unrecruited, without knowing which fence of the recruitement that player will land on.

Does this make any sense? I should probably sleep instead.

[Ricochet]

It's a shame to lose Typh so soon. I hope he comes back for more games (especially when Secret Mafia 3 rolls around). I'm surprised how many people posted before anyone mentioned that Typhoony was one of the Sorcerer roles. Makes me wonder if some people aren't doing their homework after a night post. Seeing as Typh was of the Sorcerer clan, I hope he was the Windscout (death to all seemer powers!). It would be cool if he were none other than Azura or the Magnetarch as well.

I asked the Hosts if Magnetarch can repel kills. If he is able to, then Typhoony couldn't have been Magnetarch.

[G-Man]

Ah yes, Position 4 is the one with Poison. I thought we all agreed to delay that one as long as we can, since poison is cumulative. Why does MP want it to start so early?

Maybe he's a closet Poison fan?





True story- Bret Michaels went to the same high school as my dad. My 2nd grade teacher also had him when he was in elementary school and she told us that he peed his pants on group picture day.

@SVS- Calling it rude implies there are unwritten rules to the game. It's not so much rude as it is nasty and cruel. As a battle-hardened veteran of the game, I doubt he thinks it's rude. It probably didn't even register with him.

@Rico- thanks. Good to know.

[nutella]

Fwiw, I think it's quite reasonable to use "genuine" in this game for someone you think is neutral/unrecruited at this stage of this particular game. The majority of players are unrecruited and it is kind of the default status, while in most games civvie is the default status that everyone wants to present as. It makes sense to me that unrecruited players basically behave like default "civvies" or at least generally have their average, normal, "genuine" playing style at the beginning of this type of game. When I say I read someone as "genuine" I mean just that, they are honest and don't read as baddies, and in this case it means they are probably unrecruited.

[Ricochet]

Fwiw, I think it's quite reasonable to use "genuine" in this game for someone you think is neutral/unrecruited at this stage of this particular game. The majority of players are unrecruited and it is kind of the default status, while in most games civvie is the default status that everyone wants to present as. It makes sense to me that unrecruited players basically behave like default "civvies" or at least generally have their average, normal, "genuine" playing style at the beginning of this type of game. When I say I read someone as "genuine" I mean just that, they are honest and don't read as baddies, and in this case it means they are probably unrecruited.

Ah, ok. This actually makes sense.

[Tangrowth]

Seems people want me dead. That's fine, so be it. It's an inevitable quality of this game having an overwhelming majority of neutrals right now and due to the fact that I always seem to attract suspicion.

I want Position 4 because it benefits my role. Sorry it doesn't benefit a lot of your roles.

Bass is willing to use lies and/or misrepresentation to even get me lynched and still refuses to address mine and JJJ's questions about the fact that he thinks I'm a recruiter for saying something that's the OPPOSITE of what I've said. Not only that, but Bass seems very clearly to not be reading the thread, yet in the conversation with Golden had knowledge of:
1) The fact that I was, at some point, not caught up with the thread.
2) My comment about not wanting to recruit Spacedaisy

Yet seems to ignore a lot of other posts that would conveniently argue his assertion that I'm bad, including a post from Daisy that explained the Narrator situation in Champions 2014. I'm therefore totally OK with Bass getting lynched. He doesn't seem to care at all that I might be eventually recruited to be a civilian or that I'm neutral right now. Whatever.

G-Man, I get it. You don't like my playstyle. I don't bully people on purpose, but think what you want. I feel bad enough as it is, I don't need to come in here and see people bashing my posts.

It's evident from this cycle that mafia is adversely affecting my life satisfaction. The negative vibes from my PhD program are bleeding into my posts and the frustration from mafia is bleeding into a lack of motivation for my PhD. With a new semester starting, I should not already be feeling massive burnout that I've been struggling with all summer.

Go ahead and vote me off if you wish, all of you, since there's clearly momentum forming that way and I doubt it'll go away any time soon. I don't have the desire to defend myself for days on end again. Not sure what I can say at this point that I haven't already anyway.

[S~V~S]

I was not aware of that momentum. Perhaps you should seek replacement.

[birdwithteeth11]

Alright. I'm all caught up now, but I'm way too tired to really post coherent thoughts. Thankfully I only work a half-day tomorrow, so I will have plenty of time in the afternoon to be around then. The best I can do for tonight is to just keep up with the thread.

[Golden]

Is it really? Everyone else that voiced an opinion on you & Epi seemed to think it was civ on civ. You unilaterally decided that you & he could not coexist, although no one else felt that way, and basically then bragged that YOU had solicited his death when he was NKed.

I have never seen this Golden. I played the very first game you played, and I was one of the people who watched, and understood, yur King Arthur sacrifice. But i have NO idea who is playing this game. None.

I've never played a game in which 90% of people started the game neutral. Every other game I've played has very defined sides. I've never even played a game like the Flash which is Factional. This is literally the first game I've played that is not a normal bad vs civ game of mafia. I have a very strong civ meta when I'm civ, and set out to replicate it when I am bad. But what am I supposed to do when I'm one in a sea of neutrals, and hardly anyone is yet civ?

From my perspective, the best approach in these circumstances is taking out people who I think are least likely to be civ, since I think I'm more likely to end up civ, and also people who I think are least likely to end up on the same team as me.

I'm not sure why this does not make sense, or how many times I would need to explain it to make it make sense. I am not a civ. Nor am I baddie feeling the need to try and be a civ. Nor am I, like in BoB, someone who will eternally be independent, knowing that all I need to do to win is to survive.

In this game, what I need to do is increase the odds of my team winning, even though I don't yet know which team that is. I'm finding my own feet in trying to figure out how to achieve that.

Do you understand it?

Can we talk about Epignosis? You unilaterally decided that he was bad, iirc NO ONE voted for him but you. It is very plausible that it was not your fault that the baddies killed him.

But then you came in & basically bragged that you solicited his death. No one thought he was bad but you. Very seriously. But you didn't care,did you? If i had done this, I would have had 20 votes already, lol.

I have reacted exactly to Epi as you did in this game when bad, then turned around and killed him & WIFOMed my way out of it. But this:

I was not directly responsible for killing epi. I was intentionally baiting people into setting me up, though. I suspected that if I made enough of my intention to kill epi, someone else would do it.

I am very sad to see Typhoony die already, I agree with SVS it's a lame kill hope you get a rezz, typh.

I honestly don't know whether to take you at face value or not. It's almost like someone has hacked into Goldens account.

Linki @ Golden, I still think you are missing the point, but OK. Thank you for at least mentioning Epi in that post.

Linki @ Gman, you're wrong. It isn't garbage, when a person plays one game a year, killing them on night one, for people who know him, is rude. I doubt most of the people on MPs list would have killed him on night one. Not dissimilar to not lynching nubs on day one.

@SVS - I feel like you are missing the point too. I think we are just talking at cross purposes.

There are some things which I will point out about this point which may help.

1) I never decided epi was bad. Not unilaterally or otherwise. I decided it was in my best interests that he was dead. I think he was more than likely neutral, but that he was definitely not civ. I think you still don't fundamentally understand this. I didn't set out to kill epi because I was determined and tunneling on the fact he was on one of the two mafia teams. I just don't think we would have ended up on the same team, and that means it doesn't matter WHAT alignment epi had, it was not in my interests that he was alive.

2) I didn't intend to brag and sorry if it came across that way. I wanted to be honest about my own motives, that is all. And I didn't want to say 'that kill had nothing to do with me' when I feel like the honest truth is that it may have had something to do with me. If I had not been going on about killing epi, then the baddies may not have killed him (they also may have - I don't know. You are right that it is plausible it has nothing to do with me, I did not say what I said to claim credit for it. I said it because for me, saying that it had nothing to do with me would have felt dishonest because I felt like it DID have something to do with me, or at least may have). As I said to DH, sometimes it is probably smarter for me to keep my mouth shut, but I always try to be as honest as I can when I've executed a plan (obviously I couldn't say thats what I was trying to do before hand).

[G-Man]

Seems people want me dead.

I want Position 4 because it benefits my role. Sorry it doesn't benefit a lot of your roles.

G-Man, I get it. You don't like my playstyle. I don't bully people on purpose, but think what you want. I feel bad enough as it is, I don't need to come in here and see people bashing my posts.

Go ahead and vote me off if you wish, all of you, since there's clearly momentum forming that way and I doubt it'll go away any time soon. I don't have the desire to defend myself for days on end again. Not sure what I can say at this point that I haven't already anyway.

I don't want you dead.

That's what I figured but it's nice to have it in words.

Bashing each others posts is a big part of the game, so... Why are you so sensitive to others bashing yours when you are unashamed to rip into the posts of others?

[Tangrowth]

I was not aware of that momentum. Perhaps you should seek replacement.

I'm not asking to be replaced, when other players who legitimately need replacements should have them before me. I just am feeling "whatever" if I die today. I already have three votes and players seem intent to question my motives at every possible opportunity, which is part of the game. I just don't have the energy anymore. I really wanted to play this game and actually survive past Day 2, but if players want to lynch me, what can I really do about it?

I don't think everyone fully comprehends that most players are truly only looking out for themselves right now, even if still are trying to do it all under the guise of helping the civilians.

[S~V~S]

But perhaps, Golden, it might have been in the interests of the rest of us.

[Golden]

but in essence, if your vibe/gut/read is that a player X isn't civ or is unlikely to be recruited as a civ, why trust him, why not suspect him and why want him progress. Of course, that doesn't mean you can't focus on actual civ/mafia aligned vibes, considering the game currently has such factions formed and the dichotomy will keep expanding, settling into traditional alignments eventually. But that's why it's a third factor.

Thank you Rico for understanding where I am coming from... you've completely nailed it.

Unfortunately, the flaw in Golden's perspective, if indeed this is his perspective, is that by simply saying "I never expected player X to end up in the same team as me" is that, if that team of yours is civ, you're forgetting about the second civ team player X might end up in. However, if that team of yours is bad, you genuinely need that player gone, whether he'll be your opponent in the other baddie team or a civ opponent. Hmmm.

You can see that as a flaw, and my viewpoint becomes less and less strong the fewer neutrals there are. At his point of death, I do not think epi was a civ. I am not reducing the number of civ recruits that are going to occur in the game. So I don't agree with the flaw in terms of its application to epi. All in all, I still think epi was a person least likely to end up on my team, reducing his overall chances of having a win condition compatible with mine significantly compared to others. In addition, he was trying to get me lynched. I didn't really see any down side.

linki @SVS - but the rest of you are not necessarily going to be on my team. I mean, some of you will be. Obviously, there are some of you who would have ended up on epi's team. It's not in those people's best interests. But those people, I don't think they would have ended up on my team either, so their best interests are not the same as mine.

[Ricochet]

I'm probably heading out with this last thought, but what does everyone think of Wilgy so far? His vote switcheroo, despite not noting myself votes were changeable until he did the switch, I tend to put as totally comfy with his gaming MO, coming from other sites. But I have mixed feelings about everything else. His "friendship" stuff is either some really hard claim or cuckoo talk. And right now he's acknowledging to fish for reactions with his votes and postpone analysis for later.

[Golden]

The other thing that shouldn't be lost sight of is when I made my move to set up epi, I was frustrated with him as well. I have said that before, but perhaps not emphasised it enough.

I'm trying to explain what my thinking was, and exactly why I did it. I'm not trying to tell everyone my approach is better than your approach, my approach was certainly impacted by frustration. I'm just trying to state the facts of how I was thinking.

@MP - I want you in the game.

[Golden]

I don't think everyone fully comprehends that most players are truly only looking out for themselves right now, even if still are trying to do it all under the guise of helping the civilians.

I am beginning to realise that for players like you and me, it is possibly a flaw in our style to be honest about that fact.

But I really do think it should be reiterated.

[Marmot]

I don't think everyone fully comprehends that most players are truly only looking out for themselves right now, even if still are trying to do it all under the guise of helping the civilians.

I am beginning to realise that for players like you and me, it is possibly a flaw in our style to be honest about that fact.

But I really do think it should be reiterated.

No man, it's all about the adverbs.

[Bass_the_Clever]

MP the way i'm trying to catch up is just by reading people's post who is being talked about so I read your post. I will say my first theory doesnt make a lot of sense after read back on your post but I stick to what I have to say about you recruiting daisy. Also anyone can that hasn't been recruited yet can be recruited to be civ. I also agree a lot of people are just looking out for whats best for them. What do you make of golden trying to save you?

[reywaS]

I can't really do much if anyone thinks the move was distasteful. Honestly, if you have a problem with me because I did it, and you want to vote for me for that reason, I'll understand.

I'm trying to play this game in the spirit of the game, which is to say, it is not a game that is civ vs baddies and I'm trying to play it for what it is.

I do not think epi being alive was in my best interests.

There is only so many times I can say this. If people are upset with me for it then I will take my punishment on the chin, be it a lynch or whatever. I've tried something out, obviously there are some people who are upset. It's like I said to JJ yesterday. From my end, there is no spite or malice intended. Epi has his methods and they are what they are, but in the past when I've been on the end of them I've come out worse off (admittedly in Death and Taxes it allowed me to sub back in and win, but golden 1.0 was worse off). I do think epi being alive was bad for my game, and I specifically wanted to show that in the absence of having a kill there are ways of fighting back. Epi said the feud needed to end and I agreed, so I set out to achieve that. There was no guarantee I would, but it is what I set out to do.

I also do think epi understands a game is a game and knows it isn't personal, but if epi needs an apology I'll freely give it. Epi is the kind of person I feel like, if we played Survivor together, when one of us made the move that beat the other we would turn around and say well played, and hold no grudges. I wouldn't do it to anyone that I didn't think would understand.

I don't think it was distasteful at all. I think it was pretty slick from a game play perspective whether you are Azura or you got Azura to kill him with your "death to Epignosis" talk. Much respect for making the move.

[Black Rock]

Team Caelia has recruited.
Beelzebub

[reywaS]

Well, ain't that dandy.

[reywaS]

Ain't is most definitely a word.

[reywaS]

what is this participation score about?

[reywaS]

quadruple post

[reywaS]

I see you lurking birdswithteeth! Show yourself!

[reywaS]

[reywaS]

damnit. That was supposed to start at :26

[Golden]

rey, it looks like you need some company.

What are your current thoughts on the game? On balance, would you support or be against a bass lynch? An MP lynch?

Do you think anyones behaviour isn't being talked about enough?

What about DrWilgy's odd flip from a llama vote to an MP vote, what do you think about that?

[reywaS]

I've realized that my approach to the game was ill conceived. Bass? He isn't someone that I wouldn't vote for. MP reminds me of something. I need to research it a bit.

I think my behavior isn't being talked about enough. I feel so lonely.

I don't know about this DrWilgy flip. Perhaps, I need to read something.

[reywaS]

or you could provide me with some more context. I am lazy.

[reywaS]

I've realized that my approach to the game was ill conceived. Bass? He isn't someone that I wouldn't vote for. MP reminds me of something. I need to research it a bit.

I think my behavior isn't being talked about enough. I feel so lonely.

I don't know about this DrWilgy flip. Perhaps I need to read something.

edit

[Roxy]

Spoiler: show

Kadaj aka Cabbage posted in our thread!!!! He is suspicious of the nub aapje - we should all vote aapje

jk


Teeth's non lynch - I totally get the reasons for the votes he got - but tbh he often plays slightly wacky and different than other players - Idk if I would have voted him but prob not. So The Judge ended the day early. But have we determined why no one was not lynched? I may have not gone back far enough in my catch up

Sorry I went quiet. I'm at a baseball game right now Go Reds!

But yeah, fairly disappointed about going out on Day 1 in my first game back. Not much I can do about it though. Good luck civs!

Here before lynch end Teeth says "Good Luck Civ's" - is it meant to be a mindfuck or he is hinting at being recruited? If he is implying he was recruited I would venture to say he was prob recruited as a baddie - him saying "Go Civs" just feels unnatural at this stage of this game.

Golden/Rey - I do not get Rey's points about Golden and tbf they read as forced. You say you did not call him bad but then what is this:

might could be

Reads that you think he "might could be" bad. Ergo he is bad - is the point I got when catching up. You also said he did not seem sincere - does that in and of itself make him bad Rey? Please elaborate more than you have - use little words so I can be sure to understand

you certainly don't think you two will end up on the same side? How can you possibly be certain of this when it has been well established that recruiters do not get to pick that way. The recruiters are not picking names directly and will not know exactly who they are recruiting until it is done. This is the first thing you've said in this game so far that makes me

You and I clearly have a different view of well established. If it was well established, as you say, why would that comment make you ponder anyway? Would it make me bad to have said it?

might could be

forced? How? You are implying that I forced myself to share my opinion on Golden? So, I saw Golden's ideas, and rather than the opinion being genuine I forced myself on day one to go after him? To what end? Why in the world would I, after nearly a year long hiatus from playing mafia, force myself to go after Golden?

If you quote me with more specific posts that feel forced to you, I will respond to them in kind. You went the really broad and vague route, so that's how I responded.

As for the "might could be" post. I heard that phrase on The Wire, and I like using it whenever I can. lol. I was NOT (obviously) saying that Golden is bad. If I was saying, in that post, that Golden WAS bad, I would have said something more along the lines of "Golden is bad". "Might could be" meaning that I'm not ruling it out.

Forced as in "I need to find something suspicious let me add to the Golden suspicions already flying".

This is the post that made me feel this way it was after quite a bit of convo between you and Golden.

[quote="Reywas"]I don't know what the baddie motive is for it. If you read my post more clearly you would see that I said that it doesn't make sense for you to think that way even as a recruiter. That is not why I think you could be bad. You do not sound sincere to me. It's that simple. Epig basically made the same argument about a different post from you and you kept trying to argue semantics with him over the content of the posts like you are with me right now.[/quote]

In my understanding of your points were that the only way for Golden to think the way he was thinking is if was a recruiter bc you think he was misunderstanding the way recruitments happen. Bc the Recruiting roles do not have control over who is part of their team. You go on and on about how Golden cannot guarantee that he and Epi won't be on the same team.

KK I get that point but

The whole time you were driving that point home he asked you from the beginning "how does that make me bad". You did not answer until the post above saying "You did not know what the baddie motive for it was" and now go on to say "That is not why I think you could be bad" and then say you find that his posts "do not sound sincere". Its that simple. If it was that simple why did you not just say you did not think he sounded sincere from the beginning? Why go on about the recruitment angle since you did not think there was a baddie motive for that?

See in my mind that reads as a forced suspicion.

[reywaS]

I thought he was being willfully ignorant of the way recruits happen. That's why I voted for him.

[reywaS]

See, I wouldn't feel the need to force my opinion into the thread after not playing for a year.

[reywaS]

It's not the action. It's the motivation that I perceive for that action.

[G-Man]

You know what these recruitment games need? A theme song! I've been on a punk rock kick lately (real punk rock, none of this newfangled pop-punk nonsense) and when I heard this song driving to the grocery store, lyrics just started flowing. Hope you like it!

"I Wanna Be Recruited"



Pretty-pretty-pretty please someone pick me
I wanna be recruited
Joinin' a team sounds really good to me
I wanna be recruited

I might be very awesome, could be very skilled
Hurry hurry hurry before my role is killed
Just put me on your roster, you know I will be thrilled
Let's go oh oh oh oh


Pretty-pretty-pretty please someone pick me
I wanna be recruited
Joinin' a team sounds really good to me
I wanna be recruited

I promise to be loyal, could be very skilled
Hurry hurry hurry before my role is killed
Just put me on your roster, you know I will be thrilled
Let's go oh oh oh oh


Pretty-pretty-pretty please someone pick me
I wanna be recruited
Joinin' a team sounds really good to me
I wanna be recruited

I promise to be loyal, promise I won't flake
Hurry hurry hurry pick me for goodness sake
I really want to join you, my offer isn't fake
Let's go oh oh oh oh


Pretty-pretty-pretty please someone pick me
I wanna be recruited
Joinin' a team sounds really good to me
I wanna be recruited

I promise to be loyal, promise I won't flake
Hurry hurry hurry pick me for goodness sake
I really want to join you, my offer isn't fake
Let's go oh oh oh oh


Please please puh-please puh-please please puh-please- I wanna be recruited
Please please puh-please puh-please please puh-please- I wanna be recruited
Please please puh-please puh-please please puh-please- I wanna be recruited
Please please puh-please puh-please please puh-please- I wanna be recruited

[reywaS]

YES!

[Roxy]

And I agree with what you said about BWT's "good luck civs" post, Roxy. I left that part of your quote in and I meant to add that to my last post

I still find his end of day quite suspicious and am quite surprised the people who voted for him yesterday are not feeling the same way. Or at least not from what I have read so far.

BWT, got a lot votes, maybe is worth lo look at him or his voters, some manipulation may be going on in that situation something I may look into later on

I agree re-reading the BWT voters might be a traditional way to spot some potential bandwagoning, but what manipulation do you plan to unearth, considering the Day officially ended before BWT received 7 out of his 8 total votes?

Mearly that Im curious as to he received 8 votes (looking at the image poll) from Devin-Lorab-TurnipHead-jaggedjimmy -DrWiggly-Golden-Typh-Tranq
More toward the end of the lynch poll
And even if the day ended early, and we have no clue to bwt alliance, I think is intersting to see if people still feel the same about him or if something changed?

I agree I am curious to their thoughts now.


Ricochet - I have never been good at reading Typh or Tranq or aapje. So I won't even try and guess about his role through his play style. Sure he could be Azura but chances are more likely he is one of the others imo. And they will only be dangerous to the civ cause if they are recruited by baddies. As to Dr Wigly - Dr who? Bc I do not remember much from him except his new found friendship with MM and his crush unfurl. I do not think he is a recruiter nor do I think he has been recruited aorn.

Lorab - there are a lot of new players maybe they stopped the day bc they wanted try out their power? Odds were highest day one to take out a Neutral anyway. Feels like if they were unrecruited they would most likely be a new play to the Recruitment games.

Canuck - inre: DH - I did not read that particular post as jokey. I felt he legitimately wanted to know if that meant Daisy was impressed enough to recruit Golden. But a ping is a ping and to each their own ping.

Well, if Golden doesn't get Bass lynched, he will just get the baddies to kill him for him.

[Roxy]

I thought he was being willfully ignorant of the way recruits happen. That's why I voted for him.

I thought it was bc he did not sound sincere

[Roxy]

Gman - you always make games more fun!

[Golden]

Can someone please recruit G-Man? He deserves it.

@rey - I agree it's the motivation, not the action, that matters. That's why I kept asking why does it make me bad? You've claimed I've done certain things, but you haven't provided any motivation for why I would do them when bad. You've just said they don't read genuine. But why would I lie about those things?

That's also why I went back to epi setting out the exact thought process behind the post where he claimed I gave four different answers to what I would do when recruiting. Epi did not seem interested in motivation either, even though the obvious motive for me even starting that particular conversation was to see if we could narrow down the field of potential baddie recruits so as to better find a baddie, but he also declined to provide any motive for why it would be a bad thing to do.

But whatever. Sometimes people tunnel in on you and you don't think it is entirely logical. When I really understood where you were coming from, I found your suspicion on me genuine. I can't disagree that in trying to get you to see what I was saying, I was skimming over some of the points you were trying to raise, because I was trying to get you to see that there was no baddie motivation for your allegation. But nm.

[Tangrowth]

I just wanted to say I'm sorry, all, I had a pretty rough day. Doesn't excuse the tone of some of my posts today though. I'll be back to normal soon. Not sure I'll be back before deadline though, so see you all when I see ya.

[Tangrowth]

Also, nice song, G-Man.