Battlestar Galactica Mafia - GAME OVER

[ObscureAllure]

SO SAY WE ALL (love ice cream)

So Say We All.


So, Ricochet's face was on the top as well. Does this mean that he was voted to be NK'ed along with Ika?

Didn't Golden already say that the stories weren't to be taken at face value

LC: If you would have been online in time, would you have offered the next scheduled spot or picked one of your own?

[Golden]

CONTEST TIME!!!

Your role cards tell you each a little about your character. What they don't tell you is - why did humanity invent the cylons in the first place?

You have all of day 2 to PM to me an explanation for why your character would invent a cylon, along with any key features of the cylon that they would create. At the end of that time, your submissions will be judged by a third party. A prize will be awarded to the winner! Have fun with it!

[DrumBeats]

So Say We All!

So wait, we do not get to know the identity of those killed? That's going to be a pain moving forward.

[bea]

On a personal level, I am dispirited and find it profoundly disagreeable that he won't reason his read/scumcall and he won't clarify what he's labelling me as. I don't tend to accept that from anybody, so I don't see why ika should be the big exception. I don't demand Pulitzer case-making, re: his idea of any case he'd make being "shitty" - although if "shitty" would stand for his reasoning being weaksauce, isn't that self-defeating?

Usually, this resistance to offer a decent reasoning for a read would earn anyone scumpings from me... yet I confess that my perception is becoming tampered by the eternal ika-reads-silver and silver-reads-ika business. I see no signs of either having doubts about their townreads and past games point to this thing usually checking out. He claims he'd stay frak clear of Silver if scum and I see no sign of him finding it even remotely conceivable the thought of cheating your way by the doing the exact thing the other would expect, so... what do I know?

The only distant thought in the back of my head is the variant of both ika and silverwolf being bad, for which I don't recall them ever providing esoteric meta on what happens. If that's in any way true, I could see a lot of linking in them tag teaming to suss the frak out of me.

OK Ricochet, I feel bad about this. Null Scum, from my understanding, is the same as null town. I null town people when their posts don't ping as scum at all, and they've given too much content to be null. I can't quite call them town yet but am leaning that way. Null scum is similar. You've posted too much and put too much into the thread to be null. But, some of your posts ping scummy. Therefore you are leaning scum which is the same as null leaning scum-null scum. I use this when I put people between null and scum. I don't want anyone to be dispirited over ika doing this. I would explain why I think he's doing it but I don't know for sure and don't want to give away some meta tells I have on him quite yet.

Also, regarding us being bad together-it has never happened. I would guess, we'd defend each other still and maybe even buddy each other like we do as town. I'd love to be scum with him sometime. I think we'd have fun.

While we usually read each other correctly, I understand how it is frustrating to think he assumes I wouldn't play differently to try to fool him. It's not that I wouldn't, it's just that it would be more difficult for me to interact with him as scum, because I'd have a guilty conscience and I'd probably still do so, but not quite as much if I could get away with it. I'd be active though because if I wasn't, he'd catch me on inactivity.

Hope this helps.

thank you for finally explaining it. It's a rainbow yellow read. It's a slightly leaning but no prrof to back it up - civ/baddie read.

and - I think everyone who says you would be a better mafia than that - thinks that you have in your heart the ability to play the game. They weren't trying to tear down your bond with Ika - they were warning Ika that someday, you are absolutely clever enough to work against it. Never say never sweets.

[Matt]

So Say We All!

Just finished catching up.

RIP ika, if you were good.

Let's poke Obscure. So how do you know Zebra, OA?

[bea]

Silverwolf, you cast an immutable vote against me on a day I was mostly unavailable, yet you are here now and could have saved your vote until this time to hear what I had to say. Why did you not do that?

Because you hadn't been around and barely posted and iirc, you didn't say you were not going to be here due to RL (if I'm wrong, correct me here) so I had not way of knowing you'd be back. At the time, I felt you were not contributing and I know via Downtown Abby and Turf Wars that you contribute more as town so I felt comfortable with the vote because of this and because I had no better scumread as I was (and still am) doubting my scumread on Rico as I may be changing my mind on that and want more time to figure him out.

linki-I put a second vote on you. Not exactly bandwagoning and I waited until late today to do so.

You seem to have almost no problem with MM's vote. In fact, you accepted it with very little fuss. You also seem to have no trouble with ika following me. I don't really understand how you so easily accept their votes, and call out mine.

I didn't know what I wasn't going to be here due to real life. I didn't have plans. I found out about an impromptu Mothers Day cookout across town rather last minute. We've been gone all day. It's Mothers Day weekend. Do you really expect me to sit here at my computer playing an Internet game?

I don't have a problem with MM's vote. His Day 1 vote is always bullshit and there's a new victim every time. This time it's me. Evidently, you think you know more about what I do when I'm this or that, but you don't know what MM does. That's telling. You didn't question his weird vote for me. Instead, you followed him.

I don't have a problem with ika's vote (?) because he's just following you, which I think he would do regardless of where you voted.

I have a problem with your vote.

still haven't got to the day 1 lynch in my reads - but numbers based alone, something tells me this post is interesring in hindsite...

[nutella]

So Say We All!

RIP ika iywg. The conscription thing is intriguing :hmmm:

[bea]

Actually Epi trying to discredit me reminds me of Turf Wars where he was bad and did that constantly.

You voted for me. Am I say, "Oh yes, please listen to Silverwolf! She's always right!"

Get out of here with that.

considering he has called out the scum team in turf, the scum team in champ, as well as narroing two scums quickly in downtoan abbey. i find that what your trying to pull to be laughable

posting for posperaty because this is either spot on or laugably wrong depending on how epi flips.

Still not there btw..

[bea]

I was just trying to help with another perspective from someone who has played with him longer.

golden said the same thing about MP in champ game calling him town. MP was scum

I think this is a valid point, because there is a growing list of examples of "I've known this player for years and trust my ability to read him/her" proving disastrously wrong in recent memory. If I limit it just to The Syndicate:

Talking Heads: Non-Syndicate regulars are heavily suspicious of Long Con. Syndicate regulars defend Long Con because they know him better. Long Con is mafia.
Talking Heads: Syndicate regulars are heavily suspicious of MacDougall. Non-Syndicate regulars defend MacDougall because they know him better. MacDougall is mafia.
Turf Wars: Newer Syndicateer is heavily suspicious of Epignosis. Syndicate regulars defend Epignosis because they know him better. Epignosis is mafia.

yes x 1000 but those wiggles of doubt are hard to combat. I know I contributed to lots of those failings. It's hard to not give your friends the BOTD.

Scrimmage: Newer Syndicateer and visiting players are heavily suspicious of MovingPictures07. Syndicate regulars defend MovingPictures07 because they know him better. MovingPictures07 is mafia.

We need to learn from this trend.

[bea]

I would absolutely loathe mislynching Epignosis on Day 1. I have always said that in all circumstances the most suspicious player should be lynched regardless of who or when. So with this stated:

Epignosis, if you're town then I don't think it's terribly likely you're going to change the mind of either Silverwolf or ika. To continue discussing it with them would be fruitless and perhaps even make it worse. So it'd probably be better both for your faction and for yourself if you'd drop that discussion and focus solely on your own suspicions and other reads. You've proven repeatedly to have good instincts and to be a valuable component of any civilian team, and I don't want to see that wasted.

That's funny that you had to tell Epig to do that. That's one of his first rules iirc. Change the discussion and accuse, don't get caught defending.

I have to say, reading along - I agree with this. Still don't know how epi filps. just trying to make up for my suck for like a weekend...

[bea]

Wait a minute I'm a TS regular and constantlysometimes read both Epi and LC right.
Just like Turf Wars were I knew Epi was bad (lets not discus anything else I did that game unless I'm using it to defend myself) :P
And I was right about LC like three times when he was mafia so far.

I don't like that post from you JJJ I don't like it at all.

what do you think bad jjj would be trying to accoplish here?

[ObscureAllure]

So Say We All!

Just finished catching up.

RIP ika, if you were good.

Let's poke Obscure. So how do you know Zebra, OA?

I've played with her before (assuming it's the same zebra as the old sites)... I played with you then, too (also assuming you're the same Matt) What relevance does that have to this game?

[Matt]

I dunno just askin'.

[ObscureAllure]

That's a very specific question for you to have just randomly asked it. If you're asking how I know her in this game, I don't. She hasn't posted much and what she has posted has been very random sounding. And I have no powers that would allow me to "know" her. So if you have reason to suspect a connection, I can assure you it wasn't from my end.

[nutella]

wait was zebra on RM or something? I thought she was from one of the music forums? or maybe you're thinking of a different person

[ObscureAllure]

I played on STV, RM, and piano with this group. On at least one of those sites there was a zebra but it wasn't the same user name, I think it was just zebra. Assuming it's the same person. If I am wrong, apologies. Still don't know how this relates to this game though?!

[Matt]

K

[Spacedaisy]

So say we all.

I've been reading the last few pages, but I am clearly confused on some things. Not sure what is happening with this sortie thing, I get we are looking for the res ship, but I'm not sure about the how. I need to catch up fully, but it will take time given the sheer volume of posts. Why do I get into these big games any more, I can barely keep my head above water, especially when it starts while I'm out of town on vacation. *grumbles*

I have to open tomorrow so I am leaving off where I am, but tomorrow over my lunch I am going to try and read the hosts posts in ISO. Trying to determine his alignment....

No really, I'm hoping it will help me get my feet under me for the way this particular game will work.

Vid, I'm so sorry that this is your first game ever. This is INtense. For real.

Now I am off to sleep so I can wake up on time for work in the morning. Gotta love close/opens.

P.S. Matty! seriously have enjoyed the handful of posts I've seen from you, I love your paranoid theories!

P.P.S. Marmot, I've already submitted two of your posts for the Sockys from this game, LOL. Keep them coming man!

[ObscureAllure]

What's a socky

[bea]

in regards to silvers RL issues, i can also atest to it. if her activities were to drop i would know and understand why.

and yes she is a mom of an amazing daughter so i know she was out most of the day

so Silver gets the pass because it's mother's day and you know her. Intimately. Epi doesn't get the mother's day pass for any reason.

How bout me? I was totes MIA this cycle because work and mother's day. My personal mother's day prezzie was one of my AM's worked more hours this week than I did so I didn't have to open/close Sunday. When I saw the break down, I tried to send him home as "no one works as hard as I do" and he told me to frack right the frack off.


call me cray cray -and please do so if you think I am -but this game opened on a weird weekend - when people aren't always going to be around on holidays - and not even just but also my wackado work schedule. Not having time on a holiday weekend -mother's day at that - feels like leading a lamb to slaughter.

linkkie daisy -s ee where I am? I feel your pain.

Happy belated mother's day btw.


I still haven't seen the epi flip btw - cuz in my silly head these unbiased comments are more valuable than hindsite comments but you all will do what you do.

[bea]

ISO results -

Polo's vote for LoRab was a mess up. He did not realize votes are non-changeable.

OA voted Polo for the mess up LoRab vote. She was camping and on a cell phone.

Although LC voted Matt, he also mentioned later he thinks Epi is also bad.



SW, I haven't voted yet because that's how non-changeable votes work. (At least to me, in my mind set.) It means I can gather all the info I have time to gather, and then finally, once I've gathered all that info (which I like to do for the entire day period if at all possible - if I'm going to be able to be here EoD) I make my vote. For me, it's dangerous to vote early in the day period with non-changeable votes, because something may happen to change my mind. Now, if I'm not sure I'll be here EoD, I'll definitely vote early to avoid missing the poll closing.

I'm actually seriously leaning Epi, unless something else comes up between now and then. I retain all of my normal, pre-lynch, Day 1 nerves, hesitation and fear.


Holy cow, the linki is strong!!

The bold is truth. It's why I tend to vote only once even in games with changable votes. Old habits die hard

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hey gang. Sorry for being useless for the last 24 hours or so. I fried my brain on the GRE and just haven't wanted to deal with Mafia. Hopefully I'll be recharged tomorrow.

[bea]

I would absolutely loathe mislynching Epignosis on Day 1. I have always said that in all circumstances the most suspicious player should be lynched regardless of who or when. So with this stated:

Epignosis, if you're town then I don't think it's terribly likely you're going to change the mind of either Silverwolf or ika. To continue discussing it with them would be fruitless and perhaps even make it worse. So it'd probably be better both for your faction and for yourself if you'd drop that discussion and focus solely on your own suspicions and other reads. You've proven repeatedly to have good instincts and to be a valuable component of any civilian team, and I don't want to see that wasted.

Changing their mind isn't my objective. They've already voted, and votes are not changeable.

Do you think a civilian Silverwolf would have waited for me to post? She voted for me way early in the day (judging by the fact that she was here a little while ago). Do you think a Sivilianwolf would follow MM's vote without questioning him about it instead of expecting me to do so?

That's the chief reason why I think Silverwolf is bad at this juncture. Her inability to keep my activity levels straight and her reasoning for suspecting me in other games (two, mind you) are secondary, but there.

Do I think Silverwolf would genuinely suspect you for the reasons she has stated?

Yes.

Do I think Silverwolf voted well earlier than she needed to and could have given you more time to respond to her accusations before placing a binding vote (particularly given her FoS strategies stated earlier)?

Yes.

Do I think it's meaningful that her vote followed MM's dubious vote without concern for that situation?

Yes.

Silverwolf, the latter two points apply to you. Please answer to them.

I voted Epi independently of MM's vote. I used my own reasoning.

I wasn't sure I would be around EoD or that Epi would and I didn't want to miss the vote. Epi was around some during this day phase and had plenty of opportunities to post more meaningful content when he was here. His posts underwhelmed me, then he was barely here. Then he discredits me when I suspect him but gives ika and MM a pass.

This is plenty good reason for a D1 vote. I don't see anyone else putting their neck out to take a vote/stance on anyone. Don't you find that odd also? I do.

Demonstrable bullshit.

You voted me 4:33 pm.

You posted in the five o'clock hour, the six o'clock hour, the eight o'clock hour, the nine o'clock hour, and you're here in the ten o'clock hour.

I don't give a flying fuck if you believe me. I was just diagnosed with cancer recently and have to go through chemo so fuck off!!

I'm so so very sorry you have to go through this. Please don't hesitate to reach out and yell at me about how much shit you have to go through over the next IDEK now how long goes. I have big ears and large shoulders. And what you have to go through is so so so VERY unfair and maybe if you yell at me lots about how unfair it is, it might help? I make no guarantees, but I'm here for all the yelling you need to make. For real.

In game, if someone hasn't told you to step away for a bit - I will. Not because you suck, but because given this info his game should absolutely be the LEAST of your concerns. <3

[bea]

so epi is cylong number 8

if hes still alive im going right back to it

but athena - not boomer - that means something in the meta of the show.

[Ricochet]

So say we all.

RIP ika

Also, for Rico to say ika and I never called Epi bad is BS.

Apologies for snipping in this big post you made, but I want to get straight to the point.

Never said this. Didn't you and ika do nothing but call Epi bad?

I really, really, really, really dislike all the people who are saying ika should be lynched for nothing more than having an opinion that doesn't match up to others or for what amounts to a PL. This, plus the fact that Rico is treating him the way he is, makes me not even want to post or play.

I've started last afternoon with a plea for ika to be more focused and more open to a discussion about whether the gamedesign is complex or not. It denigrated into him telling me that "I don't even believe in the arguments I'm putting forth" and then further shit. I fueled it further, no doubt, but if you think that's the territory debating should go into, well tough.

Rico-you were the first person to call ika a child, if you are gonna report him, then report yourself first.

Don't mix things. I reported ika for taking a list of volunteers, striking every name on the list and writing himself instead of every name, because to me that was the height of his I-do-what-the-frak-I-want attitude during that time, in a situation where cooperation would have been more advised.

So, Ricochet's face was on the top as well. Does this mean that he was voted to be NK'ed along with Ika?

Host Posts are flavor.

===

Players who missed or flubbed the salute, Day Two:

sig (salute comes first, content after)
bea
JaggedJimmyJay [twice now]

===

It seems bea is catching up all the way from within Day One. Nothing un-bea-like, but is there a reason for it nonetheless?

===

I have a very busy day ahead, further complicated by the fact that I didn't prep very much for it so it'll probably not go well, so I'll be around when I can and then full catch all of you later.

[Ricochet]

If ika's spot for May 11, 5:49AM is now vacant and nobody else volunteered, I think I can cover it. Wednesday is pretty much the only day this week left when I'll be able to be fully active, so might as well contribute to this as well.

[bea]

So say we all.

How horrible

He wanted to die, and now he was rezzed? He is a rezzed baddie?

So say we all.

What makes you think he was rezzed as a baddie?

Isn't that role, Sharon Agaton,a baddie? She's a Cylon, right?

there were 2 number 8s at the beginning - boomer and athena. boomer was a human who had the cylon switch fliped - and though before it fliped she was human, once the switch fliped she sided cylon.

Athena was a cylon that knew she was model 8 cylon who ended up being the replacement for the hole boomer left in the fleet. If there were *any* cylon I could think would be civ it'd be Athena.

linki - @ Rico -how else would you have me do it?

I'm about done for tonight - I know I have very little to do early tomorrow but my catsup will be the same.

[S~V~S]

So say we all.

I am here just woke up, will be back in time to do my post, over and out.

[LoRab]

So say we all

Ripiywg ika.

So Say We All!

So wait, we do not get to know the identity of those killed? That's going to be a pain moving forward.

Usually on here we do not learn the identity of nks.

[S~V~S]

Golden, can we please search~

B2

[Golden]

You found no resurrection ship at E3

[G-Man]

So say we all.

Another dozen pages and I will be 100% caught up. I will do my best to sneak a page in here and there during my workday.

[S~V~S]

So say we all.

How horrible

He wanted to die, and now he was rezzed? He is a rezzed baddie?

So say we all.

What makes you think he was rezzed as a baddie?

Isn't that role, Sharon Agaton,a baddie? She's a Cylon, right?

there were 2 number 8s at the beginning - boomer and athena. boomer was a human who had the cylon switch fliped - and though before it fliped she was human, once the switch fliped she sided cylon.

Athena was a cylon that knew she was model 8 cylon who ended up being the replacement for the hole boomer left in the fleet. If there were *any* cylon I could think would be civ it'd be Athena.

linki - @ Rico -how else would you have me do it?

I'm about done for tonight - I know I have very little to do early tomorrow but my catsup will be the same.

Yeah, I started watching the series last night;I had tried before but only made a few episodesinand hadno idea what I was watching. I think I will have to buckup & buy the mini series though, a lot happened apparently before season 1, it waskind if like starting in the middle of a story. Had I not known about it from *this game* I would have been pretty perplexed by teh multiple Sharons. Even knowing it, I got their plotlines a bit mixed up.

@OA, I know your voting reason was in someone elses post, but I wanted to hear it from you. Look at it this way; I feel pretty good about Polo, and you voted him not giving a reason in your vote post in a thread with a billion posts over a holiday weekend, and when I look it up all I see is a spat you had with him over puzzle solving. I am not sure why you think that makes him bad. That is why I asked. Vague vote in insane thread is double vague. It stood out to me so I questioned it.

Hopefully with the holiday weekend gone, we can settle into a more normal game routine.

[Glorfindel]

So Say We All!

OK, I'm just thinking out loud here. Epi is a Cylon but claims not to be aligned with the Mafia (Baddies) in this game and has no BTSC. Taking him at his word, do we all agree that there must be a BTSC inhabited by the Mafia (Baddies)? I know of games where the Mafia have not had the benefit of BTSC but I can't see Golden doing that here. Assuming that not all the Cylons are Mafia (Baddies) and the (however remote the possibility) that some humans may be as well, where does that leave us? What is the connection between the presumably six or seven players that are the Mafia (Baddy) Team? I know next to nothing about this show, does anyone who's a fan of it care to hypothesise as to what we're dealing with here?

[Ricochet]

Preliminarily thoughts, probably the only thing I'll be able to write in here until later this evening.

2.1. It is my opinion that ika was very likely human civilian with an agenda against Cylons about which he was in no way subtle. I would find awkward for a human to be bad, together with other bad cylons, and have a conflicting agenda with his factions agenda (unless if he has a traitor-like status, which is not out of the question, but a bit far from likelihood).

It is almost my opinion that Silverwolf is likely civilian, because of meta. As far as I understand, she would only remove ika if he would have read her bad (which according to his claims, he would have been able to do so within 2-4 pages of this game). Plus, at no point did she gave me the impression that she'd find it conceivable to trick ika, as a baddie, with the exact town tells that ika would expect of her. If Epig wants to recap or state further his lynch case on her, I'm open to hear it, but I'm starting to envision their antagonism as civ-civ, at the moment.

The only other thought I really had in ika-Silverwolf relationship was both of them being baddies, but with ika's nightkill and the signs of him having been human civilian, I think it would be mindblowing for baddies (with Silverwolf along) to have pushed off one of their own.

Also, I'm sorry if Silverwolf is frustrated by the thought that ika might have gained a post-mortem vote, when in fact he did not, but I think it just happens to be an overlap of the President making the law about him and him being nightkilled. It's like when you use a nightpower to empower or affect player X's game in the next Phase, but then player X happens to die, so the power effect becomes moot.

===

2.2. I also noted bea taking a stance on Scotty's vote for DFaraday the other day and I incline to side with her. DF's low activity is certainly no uncharacteristic trait of his and his catchup posts are as generic and unpingworthy as I'd expect from other Syndicate members. Usually when the thread goes rollercoaster mode early on in the game, such members will just not how much of an issue it is to try to catch up. Of course, DFaraday is more then welcome to shift gears right now, but his Day 1, from my perspective, was benign and I would question Scotty why he handpicked DF out of several other lowposters.

===

2.3. Lastly, I would like to inquire the rest of the players what their stances on using meta from ongoing different game is. Well, I can almost imagine the answer, no doubt, but I'll try to explain myself better: in an ongoing game, there was a certain flip that, right now, only enhances my suspicion on a player. Would you mind me bringing it up or would you prefer it excluded from the records for this game? Again, it's simply because I'm seeing in here a lot what I saw in there.

[S~V~S]

Post game it is fair game, but ongoing is not, imo. If you avoid mentioning it specifically, like say "I have see X do this when bad"; without saying where you saw it, that should be fine, though.

[Vompatti]

Question: How can I tell if I'm a Cylon?

[Ricochet]

So Say We All!

OK, I'm just thinking out loud here. Epi is a Cylon but claims not to be aligned with the Mafia (Baddies) in this game and has no BTSC. Taking him at his word, do we all agree that there must be a BTSC inhabited by the Mafia (Baddies)? I know of games where the Mafia have not had the benefit of BTSC but I can't see Golden doing that here. Assuming that not all the Cylons are Mafia (Baddies) and the (however remote the possibility) that some humans may be as well, where does that leave us? What is the connection between the presumably six or seven players that are the Mafia (Baddy) Team? I know next to nothing about this show, does anyone who's a fan of it care to hypothesise as to what we're dealing with here?

I imagine that the baddies have BTSC, because it's highly traditional for them to be informed and in contact with each other. There are future games that have claimed to want to experiment with BTSC-less mafia team, but I don't see Golden applying this here, either. Depending on how many baddies are we projecting, it then comes into question if all of them are in contact (Talking Heads Mafia style) or are split in, say, two groups with enabled BTSC within one group, but no knowledge of the other group.

As for connections between Cylons, if that's what you meant by "six or seven players that are Mafia (Baddy)", the problem with the show is that it's not all very clear and ultimately becomes very nuanced and divisive about the Cylon ranks. Athena is the closest thing to a potential civilian clear within the Cylon ranks. Caprica Six could almost count as an indy (and Matt did in fact propose this), due to her distinct relation and interest in Gaius Baltar. Numbers such as Leoben (#2) started out as clear villains (sleeper agent on Galactica, I think), but then another model of that number became involved in influencing Starbuck towards a certain goal. So really, if you start taking all the Cylons and judge which model was pure evil and which model was nuanced or ultimately divided about fighting the humans, it gets really, really, really complicated.

[Ricochet]

Question: How can I tell if I'm a Cylon?

Reading your role card might help.

[Ricochet]

Post game it is fair game, but ongoing is not, imo. If you avoid mentioning it specifically, like say "I have see X do this when bad"; without saying where you saw it, that should be fine, though.

Ok.

I have seen Zebra appeal to meta in her hunts when bad. It only heightens my perception that her voting BR in Day 1 based on meta was a bit shoddy. It only heightens my perception that she might be bad.

[Glorfindel]

2.1. I would find awkward for a human to be bad, together with other bad cylons, and have a conflicting agenda with his factions agenda (unless if he has a traitor-like status, which is not out of the question, but a bit far from likelihood).

Yes, this (quite succinctly put) was where I was headed although not in respect of Ika but in a more general sense. That's what I was referring to in terms of the TV Series, like were there any human characters that fraternised (if that's the right word...) with the Cylons? You said Rico, it was a "bit far from likelihood" but frankly, nothing would surprise me in this game...

[Silverwolf]

rico-Where I've played-one site, discussing ongoing games in ANY way would get you a warning or a modkill depending on the severity of it. The other site, it wasn't allowed but they were more lack on it if nothing was said to compromise the game. I don't know what the rules are here but I would feel weird, based on my history of playing, using or talking about meta from ongoing games. More than likely, I'll just discount that.

Also, you did say neither of us called Epi bad and I was reiterating we most certainly did. I can find the post but I don't think this point really matters because I have ZERO intention of continuing the argument of whether cylons are good or bad.

ika was civilian, I know I saw a post where Matt said IF you are good, and it made me cringe. He was obviously human civilian. I would never be happy for a town ika NK but I actually am now. The thought of him being mislynched today after he being so obviously civ would of stressed me out to no end.

Side rant-I don't know how to play this game. I'm used to Mafia. That means an informed minority with the same wincon. And uninformed majority with the same wincon. And of course there's always the possibility of an independent person with their own agenda and/or a second uninformed majoirty in the game. I'm used to using voting analysis and flips-seeing how people flip to play. LoRab's post that I need to listen to others that have played her longer doesn't sit well with me in a game where there are clearly multiple agendas and wincons and I sure as hell don't trust most of the people.

Epi's attitude towards me was classic bad Epi from Turf Wars. I want to vote him still. I also want to vote nutella. Her ISO shows a bizarre fascination/dislike of ika and otherwise just kind of floating along not contributing much. I am gonna resurrect my list again and move some names around. I like Bea's catch up and can move her off null for one and move nutella to scum. Also, am pinged hard by Long Con. His posts are too fluffy. Zebra is pretty carefree and still looks town. I'll probably move Rico to town as well because his argument with ika really looked like TvT-town vs town to me. Also, known as town on town violence.

Also side note-scum is a term used frequently where I've played before. I'm willing to adjust it but the fact of the matter is, it's not a personal attack. It's game related only. This is in response to Glorfindel saying he'd never use it.

I don't know the show lore that well. I've watched a few episodes but it's been a long time. I was under the impression that wouldn't be required to play. Clearly I was wrong. So that is one area I'm willing to listen to from others on not all cylons are bad but it seriously fucks with my ability to scumhunt. I also believe if ika was town/civ, then Cylons should be scum/mafia/bad because he clearly had an agenda to see them destroyed. I really don't like that multiple wincons that clearly are going on here. Add that in with the game being dependent on show lore and the flipless NK's and I'm lost.

I'm just going to scumhunt off play and behavior this game. Like I said, I'm gonna bring up my list again and make some changes to it later. I really need people like D'Faraday and Space Daisy to post D2 and going forward. It is impossible for me to play with people who don't post and I will just vote them off if they don't, assuming they are a baddie who doesn't want to contribute.

Also, regarding Mafia BTSC. I can only assume they have it because how else do they coordinate a kill? But that doesn't rule out the fact that some cylons can be bad and not be a part of it. In this game, I'm not ruling out anything and I'm not ruling out changing wincons and alignments as well. I really don't think humans are bad despite the glee that Rico said he would feel if one was to blow ika and myself's theory out the window.

That's about it for me right now. I noticed the poll wording changed. I'm gonna assume that is the host trying to neutralize using the wording of it to declare baddies but I still think voting for Who is a Cylon is significant, even though it was kind of laughed off when ika brought it up earlier. We only vote off baddies this game. If not all cylcons are bad, I still think all baddies are cylon.

[Glorfindel]

So Say We All!

OK, I'm just thinking out loud here. Epi is a Cylon but claims not to be aligned with the Mafia (Baddies) in this game and has no BTSC. Taking him at his word, do we all agree that there must be a BTSC inhabited by the Mafia (Baddies)? I know of games where the Mafia have not had the benefit of BTSC but I can't see Golden doing that here. Assuming that not all the Cylons are Mafia (Baddies) and the (however remote the possibility) that some humans may be as well, where does that leave us? What is the connection between the presumably six or seven players that are the Mafia (Baddy) Team? I know next to nothing about this show, does anyone who's a fan of it care to hypothesise as to what we're dealing with here?

I imagine that the baddies have BTSC, because it's highly traditional for them to be informed and in contact with each other. There are future games that have claimed to want to experiment with BTSC-less mafia team, but I don't see Golden applying this here, either. Depending on how many baddies are we projecting, it then comes into question if all of them are in contact (Talking Heads Mafia style) or are split in, say, two groups with enabled BTSC within one group, but no knowledge of the other group.

As for connections between Cylons, if that's what you meant by "six or seven players that are Mafia (Baddy)", the problem with the show is that it's not all very clear and ultimately becomes very nuanced and divisive about the Cylon ranks. Athena is the closest thing to a potential civilian clear within the Cylon ranks. Caprica Six could almost count as an indy (and Matt did in fact propose this), due to her distinct relation and interest in Gaius Baltar. Numbers such as Leoben (#2) started out as clear villains (sleeper agent on Galactica, I think), but then another model of that number became involved in influencing Starbuck towards a certain goal. So really, if you start taking all the Cylons and judge which model was pure evil and which model was nuanced or ultimately divided about fighting the humans, it gets really, really, really complicated.

So Say We All!

OK, I'm going to bed. I think I have a splitting headache coming on...

Oh, and thank you

[Marmot]

P.P.S. Marmot, I've already submitted two of your posts for the Sockys from this game, LOL. Keep them coming man!

Last night's mission was fun. I wish I could do another one, but I'll be out of town all day today, and you guys have got it covered anyway. Let's sink that rezz ship.

[LoRab]

Quote edited for length

ika was civilian, I know I saw a post where Matt said IF you are good, and it made me cringe. He was obviously human civilian. I would never be happy for a town ika NK but I actually am now. The thought of him being mislynched today after he being so obviously civ would of stressed me out to no end.

Side rant-I don't know how to play this game. I'm used to Mafia. That means an informed minority with the same wincon. And uninformed majority with the same wincon. And of course there's always the possibility of an independent person with their own agenda and/or a second uninformed majoirty in the game. I'm used to using voting analysis and flips-seeing how people flip to play. LoRab's post that I need to listen to others that have played her longer doesn't sit well with me in a game where there are clearly multiple agendas and wincons and I sure as hell don't trust most of the people.

...

So that is one area I'm willing to listen to from others on not all cylons are bad but it seriously fucks with my ability to scumhunt. I also believe if ika was town/civ, then Cylons should be scum/mafia/bad because he clearly had an agenda to see them destroyed. I really don't like that multiple wincons that clearly are going on here. Add that in with the game being dependent on show lore and the flipless NK's and I'm lost.

...

Also, regarding Mafia BTSC. I can only assume they have it because how else do they coordinate a kill? But that doesn't rule out the fact that some cylons can be bad and not be a part of it. In this game, I'm not ruling out anything and I'm not ruling out changing wincons and alignments as well. I really don't think humans are bad despite the glee that Rico said he would feel if one was to blow ika and myself's theory out the window.

That's about it for me right now. I noticed the poll wording changed. I'm gonna assume that is the host trying to neutralize using the wording of it to declare baddies but I still think voting for Who is a Cylon is significant, even though it was kind of laughed off when ika brought it up earlier. We only vote off baddies this game. If not all cylcons are bad, I still think all baddies are cylon.

First, rip if you were good (or ripiywg) is the standard night kill statement on here. I wouldn't read too much into people saying that.

And I'm sorry you didn't like my post. But in that very same paragraph you say you don't know how to play the game as we play it here. Of course you shouldn't trust anyone, but that doesn't mean that you can't listen to what they are saying. Like with the idea of accepting that some cylons could be civ. Which you now say you can accept. That was really my openly point. That all the aspects that you are having trouble with and not liking are exactly the game of mafia that many of us have been playing for years.

I assume mafia has BTSC, or at least partial BTSC (some members don't have it or don't have it yet). I also assume recruitment is a possibility. And I'm not personally ruling out that there could be more than one mafia. I don't know the show, but can someone who does comment on if would it make sense for there to be an evil faction of humans? Could that be the final 5? Or would it make sense for there to be 2 cylon mafia groupings?

And poll titles on lynches are usually fairly meaningless.

[Marmot]

Here's a few players I won't be voting for today for various reasons.

bea
Epignosis
Indiglo
JaggedJimmyJay
Silverwolf

[Marmot]

Hey Golden, who performed the nightkill?

[Ricochet]

rico-Where I've played-one site, discussing ongoing games in ANY way would get you a warning or a modkill depending on the severity of it. The other site, it wasn't allowed but they were more lack on it if nothing was said to compromise the game. I don't know what the rules are here but I would feel weird, based on my history of playing, using or talking about meta from ongoing games. More than likely, I'll just discount that.

Well, I just stated what I feel about Zebra, without referencing a game, everyone can discount it or not.

Also, you did say neither of us called Epi bad and I was reiterating we most certainly did. I can find the post but I don't think this point really matters because I have ZERO intention of continuing the argument of whether cylons are good or bad.

I'd normally be interested in such a post proof, because I would find it most awkward for me to have said that you two did not call Epig bad, when I spent countless pages trying to debate whether Epig is bad, based on you two insisting that he is. If this is about ika suddenly making semantic difference between calling Epig antitown ("scum") and yet never calling him mafia ("bad"), then I'm not interested in this argument anymore, partly frankly because I found that semantic twisteroo on his behalf rather sickening.

Side rant-I don't know how to play this game. I'm used to Mafia. That means an informed minority with the same wincon. And uninformed majority with the same wincon. And of course there's always the possibility of an independent person with their own agenda and/or a second uninformed majoirty in the game. I'm used to using voting analysis and flips-seeing how people flip to play. LoRab's post that I need to listen to others that have played her longer doesn't sit well with me in a game where there are clearly multiple agendas and wincons and I sure as hell don't trust most of the people.

Nobody said this game can't be Mafia, after all. Nobody said the perspective of informed and uninformed factions sharing opposite wincons has been distorted. Nobody said you can't keep doing voting analysis and focusing on lynching a mafia (bad) flip. You are simply clinging on the very black and white notion that all humans must form the civilian faction and all Cylons must form the mafia faction. The main counterargument is that the civilian and mafia faction exist very distinctly, except that they contain members of both human and Cylon race.

[Long Con]

So say we all!

SO SAY WE ALL (love ice cream)

So Say We All.


So, Ricochet's face was on the top as well. Does this mean that he was voted to be NK'ed along with Ika?

Didn't Golden already say that the stories weren't to be taken at face value

LC: If you would have been online in time, would you have offered the next scheduled spot or picked one of your own?

The only way I would have done either of those things would be if I were convinced that neither Metalmarsh nor anyone else was there to do it on time... and I would have done the next scheduled square.

So, Metalmarsh went off the schedule and voted for E3 without notice. Indiglo, Scotty, Ricochet, sig, I am interested to know what you think of that, since the four of you lost your cool a little when I went off the expected plan.

Thank you early bird S~V~S for hitting up that 5:49am timeslot so awesomely. Who is up for 11:49, in exactly two and a half hours?

[Ricochet]

2.1. I would find awkward for a human to be bad, together with other bad cylons, and have a conflicting agenda with his factions agenda (unless if he has a traitor-like status, which is not out of the question, but a bit far from likelihood).

Yes, this (quite succinctly put) was where I was headed although not in respect of Ika but in a more general sense. That's what I was referring to in terms of the TV Series, like were there any human characters that fraternised (if that's the right word...) with the Cylons? You said Rico, it was a "bit far from likelihood" but frankly, nothing would surprise me in this game...

There was progressively various and intense fraternization in the show between humans and cylons.

My point was different. It was that if ika had an agenda against all Cylons (regardless of faction), he couldn't have been part of the mafia team. A mafia team without any Cylon is just outrageous, ergo the mafia team must have Cylons in it, ergo ika can't have been bad, because his agenda would interfered with the mafiateam goal.