Battlestar Galactica Mafia - GAME OVER

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You keep saying anti-Cavil -- do you literally mean "not aligned with Cavil" or "on Cavil's team"? You called Glorfindel anti-Cavil too.

I'm trying to come up with replacement terms for civ and mafia, which I think are murky in this game. We have two sets of cylons, though; the Cavil faction (mafia), and the anti-Cavil faction (civ).

Glorfindel is Cavil faction.

So to be clear: you think Glorfindel is pro-Cavil and DrWilgy is anti-Cavil? Or you were granting the possibility of Wilgy being anti-Cavil in the context of rabbit's theory?

[Glorfindel]

There's definite potential for the baddies to have some kind of lynch immunity/prevention beyond the amnesty act. If it weren't for the Baltar election coinciding with sig's "lynch", I might suspect him even more than I did before.

Agreed. Sig was my #2 suspicion. It's very difficult for me to do a complete 180 on him but I am trying to keep an open mind. Glorfindel could have voted for sig to save himself but he did not. I'm unsure if that is just his higher-level nobility or trying to avoid bussing a teammate. Call me crazy but, given everything else we've seen out of Glorf this far, I feel more inclined to believe it's the former.

Let's ask Glorfindel himself.

Glorfindel:

Why did you vote for Black Rock instead of attempt to save yourself (and perhaps aslo your immunity) with a sig vote?

3J, I should hope by now my performance in the games I've played hear on this site, the answer should be clear. (Although I may partially have made this mistake with Magnus - Nerolunar). But allow me to spell it out for you:

1. You asked me earlier in the Day Phase who I considered most suspicious. From my recollection, my first answer was Black Rock. At the EoD I placed my vote accordingly.

2. I have said multiple times throughout this game that I was convinced that Sig is Town. For all I know he may have some ability or role that is beneficial to our Team I believe it would be morally reprehensible of me to sacrifice him simply for me to survive.

3. We're mates and as I said earlier, we've played enough games together for him to convince me that he's Town. I know it sounds weird to you but I don't behave in accordance with what you and others here consider 'conventional' behaviour in these games and I can say that there is ample evidence to support that for anyone who is prepared to look. I'll vote for who I believe is Mafia - not selling out someone I believe to be good just to save my skin.

Now before someone jumps on this, yes, Sig voted for me last Day phase. He's entitled to vote for whoever he wants, whenever he wants according to his best judgement and value systems. He stated at the time that he believed he was voting for a fellow Town member and I accept his choice in doing so. I will not judge him for that.

[G-Man]

*Add me to the list of people who hold this view.

stupid phone

Linki: Ask a simple question, get five paragraphs

[Dex]

So to be clear: you think Glorfindel is pro-Cavil and DrWilgy is anti-Cavil?

Unequivocally, yes. This.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Glorfindel (or anyone else who knows): which other game did you play in here in which you were a civilian?

[Glorfindel]

Well, isn't this a charming little discussion. Polo and Dex... Hardly surprising The conjecture around the impact of my claim is moot. What happened at EoD actually proves absolutely nothing about my species for all your Machiavellian theories. I'll tell you what all this looks like - I believe that before this EoD, our Mafia friends were sitting back slapping each other on their proverbial backs at the prospects of another perfectly executed plan resulting in a certain lynching of two candidates either of whom would be another notch in their belt with the remaining candidate the obvious target for Day 7.

The events of the EoD must have been a shock to them as their plans disappeared in a puff of smoke. It is likely that it took them some time to settle on a strategy in their BTSC and I think what we've witnessed here over the course of the last few hours is a desperate attempt to recover their position with these endless accusations against me - a sad attempt to get their plan back on course for the next Day Phase. This is the most transparent attempt at a stitch-up I've seen in some time. I think you guys seriously underestimate the ability of our team if you think anyone won't see this for what it is. I think both Dex and Polo deserve a very close look

So no chance of hearing from you why you think you survived the lynch, if it wasn't for you claiming Cylon, huh?

Or let me try to understand. Mafia was "perfectly executing" a plan to lynch you (and sig), upon which you claimed Cylon, and Mafia suddenly scrambled to push you further in the lynch. Which you survived.

So you've thwarted Mafia's plan to lynch you by claiming, which resulted in... you... getting lynched.



What about Dex and Polo makes you think they've contributed to the "stitch-up". Polo voted Zebra and Dex was the first to vote you, way ahead of the Day Phase.

Interesting that you mention nothing of players like Matt, G-Man, Sig or Bea, who actively pushed you ahead, nor do you bring up players like DrumBeats or Rabbit, who might look like having tried to even out sig (which, according to you, was also unjustly hunted) with you in the tally, at least for a while. Do they deserve a closer look or not?

Let me just say - I have been playing Mafia games now for just on three years and this Town team is continuing to demonstrate that it is the most inept of any that I have been a part. All I see is this myopic view of the game, it's mechanics and its players. I see next to no objective analysis and lots of bizarre theorizing (G-Man's rainbow list voting records excluded).

I see a lot of people continuing to suspect me. The PROOF that I'm Cylon lay in the proposition that had I claimed immunity under the Cylon Amnesty Act and been the leading wagon at the EoD, the player with the next largest wagon would've been eliminated.
FACT: That didn't happen. Despite how you subjectively interpret whatever happened there is NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE to support that view.

People assume that what happened was a save on Sig by someone. Again, this is conjecture and was based on the ASSSUMPTION that the lynch passed to him on the basis of what I've written above. No one has yet considered the possibility that the save was on me. I'd like to think that someone out there (even if they won't declare it publicly) is convinced that there is some substance to the way I've interpreted this game.

And yet, what do I find here this morning? Wild assumptions about Presidential lines of success, etc. I don't categorise this as analysis, I think a better analogy would Nero fiddling while Rome burns and all the time, the Mafia are there throwing more fuel on the fire... And yes, I still maintain that this game is rapidly slipping from our grasp. From the content of the discussions I've seen so far this Night phase I seriously and genuinely doubt our Team even possesses the capacity to win this game

[Glorfindel]

Glorfindel (or anyone else who knows): which other game did you play in here in which you were a civilian?

Pikmin and Arkham. Knock yourself out.

[Epignosis]

Well, isn't this a charming little discussion. Polo and Dex... Hardly surprising The conjecture around the impact of my claim is moot. What happened at EoD actually proves absolutely nothing about my species for all your Machiavellian theories. I'll tell you what all this looks like - I believe that before this EoD, our Mafia friends were sitting back slapping each other on their proverbial backs at the prospects of another perfectly executed plan resulting in a certain lynching of two candidates either of whom would be another notch in their belt with the remaining candidate the obvious target for Day 7.

The events of the EoD must have been a shock to them as their plans disappeared in a puff of smoke. It is likely that it took them some time to settle on a strategy in their BTSC and I think what we've witnessed here over the course of the last few hours is a desperate attempt to recover their position with these endless accusations against me - a sad attempt to get their plan back on course for the next Day Phase. This is the most transparent attempt at a stitch-up I've seen in some time. I think you guys seriously underestimate the ability of our team if you think anyone won't see this for what it is. I think both Dex and Polo deserve a very close look

So no chance of hearing from you why you think you survived the lynch, if it wasn't for you claiming Cylon, huh?

Or let me try to understand. Mafia was "perfectly executing" a plan to lynch you (and sig), upon which you claimed Cylon, and Mafia suddenly scrambled to push you further in the lynch. Which you survived.

So you've thwarted Mafia's plan to lynch you by claiming, which resulted in... you... getting lynched.



What about Dex and Polo makes you think they've contributed to the "stitch-up". Polo voted Zebra and Dex was the first to vote you, way ahead of the Day Phase.

Interesting that you mention nothing of players like Matt, G-Man, Sig or Bea, who actively pushed you ahead, nor do you bring up players like DrumBeats or Rabbit, who might look like having tried to even out sig (which, according to you, was also unjustly hunted) with you in the tally, at least for a while. Do they deserve a closer look or not?

Let me just say - I have been playing Mafia games now for just on three years and this Town team is continuing to demonstrate that it is the most inept of any that I have been a part. All I see is this myopic view of the game, it's mechanics and its players. I see next to no objective analysis and lots of bizarre theorizing (G-Man's rainbow list voting records excluded).

I see a lot of people continuing to suspect me. The PROOF that I'm Cylon lay in the proposition that had I claimed immunity under the Cylon Amnesty Act and been the leading wagon at the EoD, the player with the next largest wagon would've been eliminated.
FACT: That didn't happen. Despite how you subjectively interpret whatever happened there is NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE to support that view.

People assume that what happened was a save on Sig by someone. Again, this is conjecture and was based on the ASSSUMPTION that the lynch passed to him on the basis of what I've written above. No one has yet considered the possibility that the save was on me. I'd like to think that someone out there (even if they won't declare it publicly) is convinced that there is some substance to the way I've interpreted this game.

And yet, what do I find here this morning? Wild assumptions about Presidential lines of success, etc. I don't categorise this as analysis, I think a better analogy would Nero fiddling while Rome burns and all the time, the Mafia are there throwing more fuel on the fire... And yes, I still maintain that this game is rapidly slipping from our grasp. From the content of the discussions I've seen so far this Night phase I seriously and genuinely doubt our Team even possesses the capacity to win this game

Fiddles didn't exist during Nero's reign.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Glorfindel, what is the purpose of you claiming to be a cylon at the end of the day phase if you're not a cylon?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Separately Glorfindel, I'd like you to respond with your immediate thoughts to me making this statement:

I think you're bad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Separately Glorfindel, I'd like you to respond with your immediate thoughts to me making this statement:

I think you're bad.

Bleh, nevermind. I don't have time to wait for an answer. I have a big post about you and I need to get it posted.

[G-Man]

My technicolor review of DrumBeats:

Day 1 he is the 2nd vote on Ricochet, which ties Rico with Epi. This is also the 12th vote of the day. In a normal game, it would be much too early for Team Cavil to know the identity of a good Toaster. We didn't even have a Day 0, just that opening decoding mission. I'll have to check the context of the vote itself but my notes say he speculated that Rico wasn't putting enough meat and potatoes into his posts. He backtracked during the night, saying he felt better about Rico after the Poking of the Wolf saga. Drum was also an early adopter of the Epi is good theory and believed that there were pro-human Toasters in the game.

Day 2 he votes last (9th) on Nutella. It could be seen as cementing Nutella's fate (put her up by 3) but the vote was also very close to the deadline, so it's possible that Nutella's fate was already sealed. This is the 'obvious bus vote' in his voting record if there was one.

Day 3 he votes 21st overall and 7th for Nerolunar. This is the same lynch where he proposed the idea of putting Nero ahead of LoRab since she claimed and was immune anyway. It was faulty thinking. Or was it? If you want to tin foil, keep in mind that LoRab was #3 and some have speculated based on lore that she could be a pro-town or at least anti-Cavil Toaster. If LoRab was getting scrutinized as a possible baddie and Drum's team knows she is not one of them, why not make an innocent mistake that possibly gets a human lynched and leaves an enemy Toaster as easy pickings for the next day? It's a bit reckless because it brought suspicion on Drum as well. But if we think there is no coordinated effort to save pro-town Toasters, then maybe it's a deliberate action the other way. That's a lot of tin foil to work through but that's the only way I see any strategy in what Drum did Day 3.

Day 4 he votes right out of the gate for LoRab. To be fair, she was the popular option, especially since she claimed for amnesty and spent the night not being shy of her non-human status. Given the speculation that LoRab's role could be pro-town or at least anti-Cavil, it makes sense for an pro-Cavil member to join the herd that day. This was also the day that Drum thanked Cain for the martial law decree. If there is a pro-town group of Toasters, the martial law decree made the game harder and longer for the civvies to win because humans would have to get rid of a lot more players. The pro-Cavil faction could be happy with this if they know or think they can identify the Toasters who aren't on their side and work to get rid of them first. During Night 4, he stated his belief that sig is bad and called non-claimers suspicious. Perhaps he knew there were anti-Cavil holdouts among the non-claimers?

Day 5 he misses the vote. My notes show he was suspicious of Wilgy, Zebra, and bea. At night, supports the view that Wilgy is bad and says he will be suspicious of Wilgy defenders if Wilgy were lynched and flipped #6. Off the top of my head I cannot recall all the Wilgy defenders that night but it became a significant point of conversation as well as a point of contention.

Day 6 he votes 16th overall and 4th for sig. There was a moment of confusion where people thought that Drum's vote tied sig with Glorfindel. Perhaps Drum even thought he brought it to a tie. He didn't though but Rabbit did not long after. He spent a decent part of his time that day suspecting Dex and Polo for defending Wilgy. The night before he questioned Polo's shift from suspecting Wilgy to thinking he was #6. Day 6 he also said he was weirded out by Dex's seeming knowledge that Wilgy was #2.

Overall, it's a little early for this much tin foil but you could piece together a few of the more plausible aspects to see how Drum is either anti-town or at least on the hunt for anti-Cavil Toasters. Take a look at my technicolors and let me know what you think you see for DrumBeats.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Looks like Glorfindel was a civilian (I think the cops were "civilian") in Arkham Mafia and a baddie in Star Wars Mafia. This provides me with a nice opportunity to check into his meta a little bit, since it's his appearance at face value that I have thought looked town in this game.

The quotes contained in the following spoilers are not from this Mafia game. The point is to draw comparisons.

Star Wars Mafia (baddie Glorfindel)

Spoiler: show

Not a good result. RIP Bass.

I've skimmed quickly. Don't have time for a detailed catchup this morning.

For now, I have the following thoughts:

1) Glorfindel, you're suspicious based on tone as well as the lack of thoughts you espew. Also, your Day 2 vote stinks

You call that a thought? A comedy routine more likely. Just how pray tell is my tone suspicious? And MY Day 2 vote stinks? At least I made one which is more than I can say for a lot of players this game and yet you target me? Again? My vote wasn't on one of our power roles nor was it on what is looking to me like an increasingly Town-looking Enrique... I expect we'll find out soon enough then. You don't know that Russtifinko isn't non-Town (whatever they're called) so for you to criticise my vote just makes you look like you're grasping at straws and pretty transparently at that...

Glorfindel, what else do you have to say to the accusation that you've been defending yourself too much but not hunting enough?

Not much. The accusation when looked at objectively is clearly justified. I have clearly not spent the time and effort in 'hunting' as I should have at this point. I could point out that this is partly due to the fact that I have pracitically no point of reference for the behaviour of any player in this game but I won't bother. My judgements and my votes have been based on the only thing upon which I have to rely at this point - gut instinct. I believe that it's served me well so far although you and others obviously dispute that...

On that point, I still remain highly suspicious of Russtifinko (as I have said for some considerable time) and that is again where my vote will lie today.

@Zebra - please don't be concerned about my reaction to you in my post last night - my views and opinions have not changed but as I keep saying, that is my issue to deal with and shouldn't influence in any way your vote.

And for the record regarding that rainbow reads list I want, I'm not telling you what to do and I'm not talking down to you, as a few have accused me of doing earlier. I'm just telling you what I think you should do if you have any interest of convincing me (and probably others as well) that you are town.

Let me get this straight - you demand a 'rainbow list' from me after what is one of the worst instances of ridicule and some of the most threatening tone that I've ever seen anyone subjected to and you reckon you're neither telling me what to do or talking down to me? Let me give you a tip - you need to take a good long hard look at yourself my friend.

In all the games I have played at other sites, I've not once EVER compiled a 'rainbow list' and I'm not about to start now. I'm not going to commit myself to saying anyone is Town at this point as (apart from the POSSIBLE exceptions of Sig and Enrique) I don't trust a single one of you. I don't really care less what you think of me, but you make an absolute mockery of everything I've been told about this site and at this point, you won't be needing to worry about me in any game here in the future if this is what passes for objective analysis on this site. Up until now I was pretty solidly convinced you were Town. Now I don't really care.

@Metalmarsh: Thank you for all the work you put into that ISO read on me. I suppose I should be grateful you considered me worth the time you took to do that... I can't say it wasn't entertaining - you literally had me in fits of laughter with your analysis of my emoticons I've not seen that anywhere before and I can't help but think we're taking this a little too seriously if we use that as evidence to lynch someone!

As for Enrique, I don't know - I could easily be wrong. In my view his posts seem genuine, he posts a lot and his assertions and opinions seem (in my view) to suggest that they are the product of some consideration of players, their comments etc. I personally felt uncomfortable by the way his wagon built up momentum so quickly at the end of the last Day phase to the point where it appeared more opportunistic than anything else. I have a natural tendency to give people the benefit of the doubt and I'm also kinda reserved I guess so this is probably reflected (as you so eloquently) in my apparent reluctance to engage with a whole bunch of people I don't know). I accept that this problem lies squarely with me so I'm not blaming you if you find me suspicous as a result.

I'd also like to take issue with your criticism of my vote on Russtifinko. He's got less than half the posts I do, and I'M the one that's suspicious for allegedly lurking? REALLY?

I pulled these older quotes specifically because they feature Glorfindel responding some manner of accusations. Glorfindel was a baddie in this game, and he seemed to draw a lot of heat (as far as I can tell looking at this game now, I was not in it). There's a consistent theme in his responses: haughty incredulity. All of his responses read to me like they're being spoken by a man with Costanza eyes.

Spoiler: show

The only time it gets at all "personal" is in his response to Zebra, though it's still entirely related to the accusation itself and not the personality of the accuser. There were some other moments in this game when Glorfindel lamented about the state of the site in general, and eventually he did replace out of the game entirely. That is consistent at least with his play in this game, short of the replacement. The incredulity doesn't line up though -- when he's been accused in this game, it has been something that has frustrated and angered him, there has been no laughter or joy at all in his replies.

Arkham Mafia (civilian Glorfindel)

Spoiler: show

No problem, bud!

If you all disagree with me, that's totally fine with me; I'd be happy with a lynch of someone active too, particularly Glorfindel (he's increasingly seeming like his Star Wars self, and his lack of hunting is not convincing me otherwise) and sprityo (though, like others have speculated, it's very possible he's an inmate who's won). I just thought I'd throw my hat in the ring again this time for another inactive lynch. I may or may not go the same way tomorrow though. Just gotta see when I'll have some time to actually put more than a half-assed effort in the game at this point, since hosting is taking up a bunch of time.

@MP - my friend, you have gone from defending me at one point saying something to the effect that you would look suspiciously upon anyone who voted for me to advocating my lynching - and all of this seemingly based on a comparison between my playstyle in Star Wars and this game. I'm asking you now to explain what it is precisely that you identified in that comparison to lead you to such an apparent about face - it must surely have been something conclusive to have led you to such a change of heart.

Glorf, sorry I haven't answered this before now. I've been swamped hosting another game among many other things.

I did say that I would view anyone who bandwagoned onto you and didn't discuss anyone else a few cycles ago with suspicion, yes. But since then, the game has developed, and I still have yet to see any real town-minded effort from you with regards to discussing suspects and actual hunting; rather, you seem way more interested in defending yourself over and over again, but by telling us how you're an obvious townie and trying to play off of emotional posts, rather than show us posts where you have exhibited town-minded hunting behavior.

I rightfully view that with suspicion.

MP, your post disappoints me greatly. There are a number of things you've said there that are incidental to the outcome of this game that I will address later down the track. Let me say for now that it is difficult to not look like you're constantly defending yourself when you are subject to sustained false accusations as I have been by those of you who insist on making unsubstantiated claims about my playstyle being similar to that of Star Wars (where I was Mafia). Despite that, I have been doing my best (and spent considerable time and energy) to analyse other player's post. But then no one notices although whether that is deliberate and convenient who knows

Between work, and Admin-y things, I have spent all of my Mafia time here. I need to go see the other thread, I have barely been in there, so I am going to vote now.

Glorfindel, I think you are a very kind person, a gentleman, and a breath of fresh air. I also think you drew a bad role this game.

*Glorfindel*

My role is not the issue here my friend (as you will see for yourself at some point). The issue is purely the distorted lens through which you and others have and are judging my comments throughout this game. I doubt a single one of you (with the exception of Golden and maybe Juliets) has even attempted to stand back and consider the possibility that I am genuine. I'd like to think that (in that respect) there would be a perceptible similarity between my performance and my Pikmin game. Thank you for saying those nice things about me and I'm sorry but the fact that you can see that and believe that I am bad in spite of that says more about how you see things than it does about me. I've explained ad nauseum to you that the post to which you refer was 'crafted' the way it was out of respect for my fellow players. I could see grounds for your suspicions had you been able to identify some inconsistency with my subsequent posts but you haven't and I doubt you can. It's much the same thing that we've just witnessed with Matt and Golden and that ridiculous Two-Face accusation that has been leveled at me. The fact that Matt interpreted that 'data' he collected in the way he did, in an unbalanced way illustrates well the struggle that I'm having with this game right now in that his first assumption was that I was bad and he interpreted my posts in that way.

I said a day or so ago that I was committed to my Team and would be to the end. I recognise my responsibility to them to do everything in my power to secure a win for our Team. As things stand right now, I don't believe there is any point to me continuing to post in this thread as it has become apparent to me that there is not a single person playing (with the possible exception of Bubbles) who is prepared to accept that I may be innocent. There has been some suggestion made this morning of a link between Bubbles' alignment and mine. I can assure you that there is no truth to this assumption whatsoever.

My point here is that as I see it, no one is listening (in truth, many of you stopped listening long ago). My issue is that you are all being deceived and there is nothing that I can do to convince any of you otherwise - but as I say, that's MY issue. You are going to believe what you want and at the end of the day, you will bear the consequences of the choices you make. I'm pretty satisfied that I've done everything in my power albeit to no avail. I think I'll be leaving this in your hands now. Vote for me. Vote for Bubbles. The choice is yours. If any of you realise the error of your ways before it's too late, let me know and if I'm able, I'll return to support you however I can. Good luck, Guys!

Alright, I have some things I want to say at this point. I've played probably about 30+ games now across four sites and what I'm seeing right now is in all likelihood (given we are well into this game and it's not Day 1 anymore) the worst mislynch that has occurred in any of them. All the cases that have been brought against me have been some of the weakest I've seen in my experience and despite demanding continuously for my accusers to elaborate on those cases (e.g. Star Wars vs this game) I've been given nothing. As I've said previously, whether you vote for me because you judge me to be bad or vote for Bubbles because you judge me to be bad says infinitely more about all of you than it does about me. I have in my view, done all that I reasonably could to fulfill my role in this game but in the end the avalanche of suspicion that has fallen upon me is something about which I can do very little.

As a committed member of our team, I'm going to place my vote where I think it belongs. Some of you may know more about what's going on in this game than I but for me, I think S-V-S's case on me has from the very beginning been a work of fiction. She's pushed that argument ever since and seems to have found enough people gullible enough to believe it. I think her self-voting (despite her stated reasons for doing so) is bad. If she is Town, I'd see that as an irresponsible and self indulgent act and question her loyalty to our Team.

I'd also like to put on record my gut-wrenching disappointment at one of my fellow players whom I have come to respect deeply who apparently has found it so easy to disregard what they know to be true and abandon me to the point where they no longer care about my lynching. It's a pretty bitter pill to swallow and although this is a game, I'm still bitterly disappointed about that.

As for this game and my part in it, I think you guys are going to hopefully take some lessons from it. One being Matt's Two-Face theory on me. That defied all logic from the time that he made that post yet, many of you still bought it. For the sake of all of you, my Team, I hope you can still pull this one out of the fire.

"A penny for my thoughts? Oh no, I'll sell 'em for a dollar,
They're worth so much more after I'm a goner
And then maybe then you'll hear the words I've been singing.
Funny when you're dead how people start listening.
If I die young, bury me in satin,
Lay me down on a bed of roses,
Sink me in the river at dawn.
Send me away to the words of a love song."

If I Die Young - The Band Perry.

I'm giving this one its own spoiler, it might be significant soon:

Spoiler: show

IF bubbles is bad... and not the last member of her team.

THEN I will think I've been wrong about you.

Because bubbles vote did look like an attempted save.

OK, I confess - this really hurt. I've no idea of Bubbles' alignment and the fact that either way you'd link her alignment to mine over your own gut-read is frankly bitterly disappointing.

At this point, I'm not voting for Bubbles based solely on the fact that she defended me. If you can come up with something more conclusive, I'd consider it but until then I can't see that lynching her will necessarily prove anything at all.

In this game, the most apparent theme in Glorfindel's responses to accusations (and he got a lot of heat in this game too) was despair. He couldn't stand it, he made it obvious that he couldn't stand it, and he voiced his total disappointment with everyone involved.

He also did so by using a lot of words.

This looks to me almost identical to what he's posted in this game.

The quote I put in a separate spoiler in which he responds to Golden is significant because it's how he responded to losing the trust of someone who had previously been defending him in the game (also note the highlighted portion -- this reflects perfectly his response to the pseudo link I drew between Glorfindel and Black Rock in this game). There's an obvious parallel for that in this game -- me. I've defended him more than anyone else in this game. So I just told Glorfindel that I think he's bad without saying why to incite whatever response he might provide in light of losing his most vocal ally again. We'll see if he responds to that and maybe compare accordingly, but the value is largely lost now. I wanted him to respond before I posted this, but I don't have time for that.

~~~

Notes:

~ I think the prevailing argument against Glorfindel that his posts are long and wordy without many stances being taken is bunk. That's who he is. It's obvious if you look at his performance in other games. It doesn't mean he's good, but it's a shit argument to call him bad for it. He heard "you defend yourself too much and don't look for suspects enough!" all day in Arkham Mafia and it was wrong then.

~ To me he looks more like Arkham/civilian Glorfindel than Star Wars/baddie Glorfindel.

~ In terms of meta and at face value, I'm comfortable to continue saying that Glorfindel absolutely looks to me like a civilian.

The only argument I see against Glorfindel that I think still has merit given what I've examined here relates to his cylon claim. That's something I'll continue to talk with him about. But I no longer respect the face value case against him very much. I think it's pretty weak, and that so many people have clung to it looks worse than he does to me as a result.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

*leans back, crosses legs over tabletop, and waits for flames*

[G-Man]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'm still interested in lynching Glorfindel Day 7. Confirming his identity should yield clue on other players that we're talking about.

Linki: then which anti-Cavil Toaster is he, JJJ? We've got Epi and Wilgy (I'm still coming around on that theory as well). If we think the eight listed are split four and four, you think we've found the remaining three good ones?

[Dex]

Linki: then which anti-Cavil Toaster is he, JJJ? We've got Epi and Wilgy (I'm still coming around on that theory as well). If we think the eight listed are split four and four, you think we've found the remaining three good ones?

For my own part, I feel pretty confident that I've IDed Leoben and Caprica 6, and neither of them are Glorfindel. I don't really expect that to influence anybody else though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'm still interested in lynching Glorfindel Day 7. Confirming his identity should yield clue on other players that we're talking about.

Linki: then which anti-Cavil Toaster is he, JJJ? We've got Epi and Wilgy (I'm still coming around on that theory as well). If we think the eight listed are split four and four, you think we've found the remaining three good ones?

I don't know that they are split 4-4, and I have no more reason to trust Wilgy than I do Glorfindel. It's also plausible that all of this claim nonsense really did only expose the good guys and not the bad guys.

I mean, it's not hard at all for a baddie to just claim. That doesn't require strenuous mental exertion.

[Golden]

I've just done three days worth of treason counting

My, weren't so many of you bad on day six...

Be wary of incoming punishments.

[rabbit8]

Yo, JJJ...

I don't find zeebs bad at all during Day 2. I disagree with Rico and his vote another major lynch he didn't get involved in and the only one that produce a baddie. The last lynch was another baddie in Glorf, and Ricco runs away again....

Glorf comes off bad. At one point he said the baddies might not have BTSC, Rico disagreed. I have to agree with Rico here.

I assume mafia has BTSC, or at least partial BTSC (some members don't have it or don't have it yet). I also assume recruitment is a possibility. And I'm not personally ruling out that there could be more than one mafia. I don't know the show, but can someone who does comment on if would it make sense for there to be an evil faction of humans? Could that be the final 5? Or would it make sense for there to be 2 cylon mafia groupings?

I don't know if a two-team mafia is possible in this game, based on show context, but I'm leaning on doubting that. The Final Five in the show split into four cylons that continued to help the human race and 1 Cylon that embraced being a Cylon against humans. That's hardly probable material for a second mafia team, to bloom out of nowhere, at least imo.

Wont the final 5 do exactly that, bloom out of nowhere? I disagree here. I think there is a likely hood of two teams and did from day 1.

Rico is way to obsessed with the checkerboard.

Well done Juliets And so say we all, I completely forgot ...

Im entertaining the idea that JJJ might be bad. He seems to strive to look P50, but it feels forced. Thats only tone though, I can barely remember anything he has said. Although that might be a point in itself. Im feeling good about Rico though.

What does everyone think of JJJ?

Linki -

I am not currently comfortable with JJJ. And I believe there are several others who feel the same way. He has been missing several details, and that just doesn't seem like careful JJJ.

I believe Epi mentioned the possibility of JJJ casting a vote to save Rico... I'm not sure how I feel about that. But I definitely felt like JJJ was holding his vote to see where others voted. Which, many times, points to mafia.

I agree with Indiglo here.

I like when Scotty calls out nutella for crap posts, and goes to town on Rico.

I like your case on nutella JJJ. Doubly so since we know she's bad. I think you might be on the team with no cavil that is bad. I could be wrong. I understand why you wanted me to look at this lynch though.

It's like Scotty and I see Rico the exact same way.

Scotty, the process I'm talking about being ok with is that DFaraday didn't try to squeeze in a likely weaksauce votepost, after strengthening that much the idea that he's stuck in catchup limbo. Never said I don't expect or would like him to finally do pick up and get those reads and votes rolling. First post is consistent to me to a reaction on how many pages he might have woken up to. Second post contained justification because you pressure voted him.

Re: Zebra, two clarifications: 1) it's not about "relying on meta", it's about reasoning and voting on meta alone, and quite wild meta, too, and 2) what I see her doing here she did as a baddie before. I don't have strong recollection of this being her civ MO or at least comparatively null on how she does business.

Just bullshit.

SokothQultuq, I just realized he was playing the game, kind of.

I said I would figure out who my top suspects are but I honestly have no idea. At this point I feel like anyone could be bad and I'd have no clue, though there are a handful of people I trust more than others.

Lots of people have named G-Man as a top suspect and I'm curious about that -- I haven't seen as much silly posting or participation in general as I might expect from him, but idk. I was also pretty on board with the observation that JJJ was not his usual zillions-of-posts self, but he's jumped in to do some ISOs as a response to that accusation, and I'm not sure whether to read that as defensive coverage or just a change in timing/availability/energy.

I would like to hear more from Zebra, I think I tend to get odd vibes from her usually but I'm really unclear on what she's done this game and her name sticks out as one I'm curious about. In fact I might go look at her ISO and see what I find (all I remember is the OA thing).

lol, guess gman and Zeebs aren't on nutella's team. Who would suspect their teammate at a time like this, amiright?

nutella going after zeebs

Soko, meh

Good read on LC JJJ.

I guess I could link a lot of Glorfs post but it's mostly a lot of words...... so no.

Still think Bea is bad after rereading day 2.

I'm less sure of JJJ's badness. But Im not sure if this is because I'm reading his best day. And I think that my judgment is going haywire here because he is bad. Errr, I wouldn't vote for JJJ over a lot of other players right now.

why for the rico vote zeebs? I feel pretty good about him - what are you seeing that I'm not?

I bet you do....

Well, this was a lie.

I think OA is bad. I don't want to get into breaking it down right now.

I've got about 10 pages to go, so I might or might not get it done tonight.....

[Marmot]

I've just done three days worth of treason counting

My, weren't so many of you bad on day six...

Be wary of incoming punishments.

Bring back the Marmot-Protection Act please! Kthanks.

[Dex]

I'm off to the ballpark to catch a game and won't be back before game-dawn, so I just wanted to make an if-I-die-before-I-wake post.

My intention is to look to players particularly hostile and aggressive towards anti-Cavil cylons, Epi, LoRab and Wilgy. It looks to me like the Cavil cylons have a particular interest in killing them, like they may not need to kill all the humans, but they definitely need to kill them.

There were technically four non-claimers when the Cylon Amnesty law was repealed, but practically only two. Epi doesn't count because why bother, and Vomp doesn't count because Vomp. That leaves Rico and Obscure, both of which I am highly suspicious of. Rico wouldn't declare because it was somehow not in the best civ interests for him to claim unless he was the last one to do it, which was never going to happen. Obscure wouldn't declare out of fear of punishment for triggering an event, which is balderdash.

My strongest civ reads are Insert (based largely on Silver's play), S~V~S, and the Marmot. Protect and nourish them.

I would add Matt to that list, but some of his ideas, for example that sig/glorf = Gaius/Cap 6 are unhelpful. I don't think he's being malevolent; I just think he likes coming up with ideas. I would include Polo except for his focused insistence that we should kill Cavil before Cain, even though we have no idea who Cavil is and even after Cain was already dead. And I'd have included Drum except for his Ahabish need to kill Wilgy.

Finally, please do not let up on lynching Glorfindel tomorrow.

[Black Rock]

I'm sorry everyone. I have asked to be replaced. Unfortunately Silverwolf asked first. My life is a shit show right at this moment and I have fallen so far behind in this game I feel like I'm drowning. I am playing my role, as much as that is worth, I just am suck. Sorry.

[Glorfindel]

Looks like Glorfindel was a civilian (I think the cops were "civilian") in Arkham Mafia and a baddie in Star Wars Mafia. This provides me with a nice opportunity to check into his meta a little bit, since it's his appearance at face value that I have thought looked town in this game.

The quotes contained in the following spoilers are not from this Mafia game. The point is to draw comparisons.

Star Wars Mafia (baddie Glorfindel)

Spoiler: show

Not a good result. RIP Bass.

I've skimmed quickly. Don't have time for a detailed catchup this morning.

For now, I have the following thoughts:

1) Glorfindel, you're suspicious based on tone as well as the lack of thoughts you espew. Also, your Day 2 vote stinks

You call that a thought? A comedy routine more likely. Just how pray tell is my tone suspicious? And MY Day 2 vote stinks? At least I made one which is more than I can say for a lot of players this game and yet you target me? Again? My vote wasn't on one of our power roles nor was it on what is looking to me like an increasingly Town-looking Enrique... I expect we'll find out soon enough then. You don't know that Russtifinko isn't non-Town (whatever they're called) so for you to criticise my vote just makes you look like you're grasping at straws and pretty transparently at that...

Glorfindel, what else do you have to say to the accusation that you've been defending yourself too much but not hunting enough?

Not much. The accusation when looked at objectively is clearly justified. I have clearly not spent the time and effort in 'hunting' as I should have at this point. I could point out that this is partly due to the fact that I have pracitically no point of reference for the behaviour of any player in this game but I won't bother. My judgements and my votes have been based on the only thing upon which I have to rely at this point - gut instinct. I believe that it's served me well so far although you and others obviously dispute that...

On that point, I still remain highly suspicious of Russtifinko (as I have said for some considerable time) and that is again where my vote will lie today.

@Zebra - please don't be concerned about my reaction to you in my post last night - my views and opinions have not changed but as I keep saying, that is my issue to deal with and shouldn't influence in any way your vote.

And for the record regarding that rainbow reads list I want, I'm not telling you what to do and I'm not talking down to you, as a few have accused me of doing earlier. I'm just telling you what I think you should do if you have any interest of convincing me (and probably others as well) that you are town.

Let me get this straight - you demand a 'rainbow list' from me after what is one of the worst instances of ridicule and some of the most threatening tone that I've ever seen anyone subjected to and you reckon you're neither telling me what to do or talking down to me? Let me give you a tip - you need to take a good long hard look at yourself my friend.

In all the games I have played at other sites, I've not once EVER compiled a 'rainbow list' and I'm not about to start now. I'm not going to commit myself to saying anyone is Town at this point as (apart from the POSSIBLE exceptions of Sig and Enrique) I don't trust a single one of you. I don't really care less what you think of me, but you make an absolute mockery of everything I've been told about this site and at this point, you won't be needing to worry about me in any game here in the future if this is what passes for objective analysis on this site. Up until now I was pretty solidly convinced you were Town. Now I don't really care.

@Metalmarsh: Thank you for all the work you put into that ISO read on me. I suppose I should be grateful you considered me worth the time you took to do that... I can't say it wasn't entertaining - you literally had me in fits of laughter with your analysis of my emoticons I've not seen that anywhere before and I can't help but think we're taking this a little too seriously if we use that as evidence to lynch someone!

As for Enrique, I don't know - I could easily be wrong. In my view his posts seem genuine, he posts a lot and his assertions and opinions seem (in my view) to suggest that they are the product of some consideration of players, their comments etc. I personally felt uncomfortable by the way his wagon built up momentum so quickly at the end of the last Day phase to the point where it appeared more opportunistic than anything else. I have a natural tendency to give people the benefit of the doubt and I'm also kinda reserved I guess so this is probably reflected (as you so eloquently) in my apparent reluctance to engage with a whole bunch of people I don't know). I accept that this problem lies squarely with me so I'm not blaming you if you find me suspicous as a result.

I'd also like to take issue with your criticism of my vote on Russtifinko. He's got less than half the posts I do, and I'M the one that's suspicious for allegedly lurking? REALLY?

I pulled these older quotes specifically because they feature Glorfindel responding some manner of accusations. Glorfindel was a baddie in this game, and he seemed to draw a lot of heat (as far as I can tell looking at this game now, I was not in it). There's a consistent theme in his responses: haughty incredulity. All of his responses read to me like they're being spoken by a man with Costanza eyes.

Spoiler: show

The only time it gets at all "personal" is in his response to Zebra, though it's still entirely related to the accusation itself and not the personality of the accuser. There were some other moments in this game when Glorfindel lamented about the state of the site in general, and eventually he did replace out of the game entirely. That is consistent at least with his play in this game, short of the replacement. The incredulity doesn't line up though -- when he's been accused in this game, it has been something that has frustrated and angered him, there has been no laughter or joy at all in his replies.

Arkham Mafia (civilian Glorfindel)

Spoiler: show

No problem, bud!

If you all disagree with me, that's totally fine with me; I'd be happy with a lynch of someone active too, particularly Glorfindel (he's increasingly seeming like his Star Wars self, and his lack of hunting is not convincing me otherwise) and sprityo (though, like others have speculated, it's very possible he's an inmate who's won). I just thought I'd throw my hat in the ring again this time for another inactive lynch. I may or may not go the same way tomorrow though. Just gotta see when I'll have some time to actually put more than a half-assed effort in the game at this point, since hosting is taking up a bunch of time.

@MP - my friend, you have gone from defending me at one point saying something to the effect that you would look suspiciously upon anyone who voted for me to advocating my lynching - and all of this seemingly based on a comparison between my playstyle in Star Wars and this game. I'm asking you now to explain what it is precisely that you identified in that comparison to lead you to such an apparent about face - it must surely have been something conclusive to have led you to such a change of heart.

Glorf, sorry I haven't answered this before now. I've been swamped hosting another game among many other things.

I did say that I would view anyone who bandwagoned onto you and didn't discuss anyone else a few cycles ago with suspicion, yes. But since then, the game has developed, and I still have yet to see any real town-minded effort from you with regards to discussing suspects and actual hunting; rather, you seem way more interested in defending yourself over and over again, but by telling us how you're an obvious townie and trying to play off of emotional posts, rather than show us posts where you have exhibited town-minded hunting behavior.

I rightfully view that with suspicion.

MP, your post disappoints me greatly. There are a number of things you've said there that are incidental to the outcome of this game that I will address later down the track. Let me say for now that it is difficult to not look like you're constantly defending yourself when you are subject to sustained false accusations as I have been by those of you who insist on making unsubstantiated claims about my playstyle being similar to that of Star Wars (where I was Mafia). Despite that, I have been doing my best (and spent considerable time and energy) to analyse other player's post. But then no one notices although whether that is deliberate and convenient who knows

Between work, and Admin-y things, I have spent all of my Mafia time here. I need to go see the other thread, I have barely been in there, so I am going to vote now.

Glorfindel, I think you are a very kind person, a gentleman, and a breath of fresh air. I also think you drew a bad role this game.

*Glorfindel*

My role is not the issue here my friend (as you will see for yourself at some point). The issue is purely the distorted lens through which you and others have and are judging my comments throughout this game. I doubt a single one of you (with the exception of Golden and maybe Juliets) has even attempted to stand back and consider the possibility that I am genuine. I'd like to think that (in that respect) there would be a perceptible similarity between my performance and my Pikmin game. Thank you for saying those nice things about me and I'm sorry but the fact that you can see that and believe that I am bad in spite of that says more about how you see things than it does about me. I've explained ad nauseum to you that the post to which you refer was 'crafted' the way it was out of respect for my fellow players. I could see grounds for your suspicions had you been able to identify some inconsistency with my subsequent posts but you haven't and I doubt you can. It's much the same thing that we've just witnessed with Matt and Golden and that ridiculous Two-Face accusation that has been leveled at me. The fact that Matt interpreted that 'data' he collected in the way he did, in an unbalanced way illustrates well the struggle that I'm having with this game right now in that his first assumption was that I was bad and he interpreted my posts in that way.

I said a day or so ago that I was committed to my Team and would be to the end. I recognise my responsibility to them to do everything in my power to secure a win for our Team. As things stand right now, I don't believe there is any point to me continuing to post in this thread as it has become apparent to me that there is not a single person playing (with the possible exception of Bubbles) who is prepared to accept that I may be innocent. There has been some suggestion made this morning of a link between Bubbles' alignment and mine. I can assure you that there is no truth to this assumption whatsoever.

My point here is that as I see it, no one is listening (in truth, many of you stopped listening long ago). My issue is that you are all being deceived and there is nothing that I can do to convince any of you otherwise - but as I say, that's MY issue. You are going to believe what you want and at the end of the day, you will bear the consequences of the choices you make. I'm pretty satisfied that I've done everything in my power albeit to no avail. I think I'll be leaving this in your hands now. Vote for me. Vote for Bubbles. The choice is yours. If any of you realise the error of your ways before it's too late, let me know and if I'm able, I'll return to support you however I can. Good luck, Guys!

Alright, I have some things I want to say at this point. I've played probably about 30+ games now across four sites and what I'm seeing right now is in all likelihood (given we are well into this game and it's not Day 1 anymore) the worst mislynch that has occurred in any of them. All the cases that have been brought against me have been some of the weakest I've seen in my experience and despite demanding continuously for my accusers to elaborate on those cases (e.g. Star Wars vs this game) I've been given nothing. As I've said previously, whether you vote for me because you judge me to be bad or vote for Bubbles because you judge me to be bad says infinitely more about all of you than it does about me. I have in my view, done all that I reasonably could to fulfill my role in this game but in the end the avalanche of suspicion that has fallen upon me is something about which I can do very little.

As a committed member of our team, I'm going to place my vote where I think it belongs. Some of you may know more about what's going on in this game than I but for me, I think S-V-S's case on me has from the very beginning been a work of fiction. She's pushed that argument ever since and seems to have found enough people gullible enough to believe it. I think her self-voting (despite her stated reasons for doing so) is bad. If she is Town, I'd see that as an irresponsible and self indulgent act and question her loyalty to our Team.

I'd also like to put on record my gut-wrenching disappointment at one of my fellow players whom I have come to respect deeply who apparently has found it so easy to disregard what they know to be true and abandon me to the point where they no longer care about my lynching. It's a pretty bitter pill to swallow and although this is a game, I'm still bitterly disappointed about that.

As for this game and my part in it, I think you guys are going to hopefully take some lessons from it. One being Matt's Two-Face theory on me. That defied all logic from the time that he made that post yet, many of you still bought it. For the sake of all of you, my Team, I hope you can still pull this one out of the fire.

"A penny for my thoughts? Oh no, I'll sell 'em for a dollar,
They're worth so much more after I'm a goner
And then maybe then you'll hear the words I've been singing.
Funny when you're dead how people start listening.
If I die young, bury me in satin,
Lay me down on a bed of roses,
Sink me in the river at dawn.
Send me away to the words of a love song."

If I Die Young - The Band Perry.

I'm giving this one its own spoiler, it might be significant soon:

Spoiler: show

IF bubbles is bad... and not the last member of her team.

THEN I will think I've been wrong about you.

Because bubbles vote did look like an attempted save.

OK, I confess - this really hurt. I've no idea of Bubbles' alignment and the fact that either way you'd link her alignment to mine over your own gut-read is frankly bitterly disappointing.

At this point, I'm not voting for Bubbles based solely on the fact that she defended me. If you can come up with something more conclusive, I'd consider it but until then I can't see that lynching her will necessarily prove anything at all.

In this game, the most apparent theme in Glorfindel's responses to accusations (and he got a lot of heat in this game too) was despair. He couldn't stand it, he made it obvious that he couldn't stand it, and he voiced his total disappointment with everyone involved.

He also did so by using a lot of words.

This looks to me almost identical to what he's posted in this game.

The quote I put in a separate spoiler in which he responds to Golden is significant because it's how he responded to losing the trust of someone who had previously been defending him in the game (also note the highlighted portion -- this reflects perfectly his response to the pseudo link I drew between Glorfindel and Black Rock in this game). There's an obvious parallel for that in this game -- me. I've defended him more than anyone else in this game. So I just told Glorfindel that I think he's bad without saying why to incite whatever response he might provide in light of losing his most vocal ally again. We'll see if he responds to that and maybe compare accordingly, but the value is largely lost now. I wanted him to respond before I posted this, but I don't have time for that.

~~~

Notes:

~ I think the prevailing argument against Glorfindel that his posts are long and wordy without many stances being taken is bunk. That's who he is. It's obvious if you look at his performance in other games. It doesn't mean he's good, but it's a shit argument to call him bad for it. He heard "you defend yourself too much and don't look for suspects enough!" all day in Arkham Mafia and it was wrong then.

~ To me he looks more like Arkham/civilian Glorfindel than Star Wars/baddie Glorfindel.

~ In terms of meta and at face value, I'm comfortable to continue saying that Glorfindel absolutely looks to me like a civilian.

The only argument I see against Glorfindel that I think still has merit given what I've examined here relates to his cylon claim. That's something I'll continue to talk with him about. But I no longer respect the face value case against him very much. I think it's pretty weak, and that so many people have clung to it looks worse than he does to me as a result.

OK, 3J - I'll do my best to address your question here. Let me preface my response with the following:

I've said that I've been playing Mafia games for nigh on three years now and with each new game I think I learn something new. The Arkham game (I think) taught me something particularly valuable. I'll admit that through that game (10 Day phases as I recall) I came to respect Golden a great deal - not just for his superior game skills (that I trust will serve him well in his Mafia Championship exploits over at MU) but on a more personal level. I don't know whether that was evident from my in-thread remarks but that was the truth of it. I don't expect you or anyone else to understand this but I was deeply hurt by his vote on me and I interpreted it as a kind of betrayal and was one of the lowest points for me in Mafia games in a very long time. I vowed after that game that I would never let myself fall into that trap ever again.

You ask me my opinion if you believe I'm bad? Sure, I'd be disappointed. You've displayed an ability to apply a degree of logic and objective analysis along with strong deductive skills that are (in my view) without peer in this game. Yes, I'd be disappointed but I accept your right to hold that view if that's the conclusion at which you arrive. I think you seem a really nice guy and you clearly are very skilled at these games but no, I won't allow myself to be hurt like that again. I wasn't sure before but I think that was the defining factor in my changing to the new 'badass' version of Glorfindel

[sig]

Yeah @JJJ that is my point I'm seeing civ Glorfindel

[rabbit8]

You're going to attempt saving Glof?

Okay. I want to see this play out.

[Glorfindel]

Whatever happened at the end of the last Day phase achieved one extremely important thing - it disrupted the Mafia's plans and gave us a valuable opportunity to step back and re-assess what is happening here. Whoever was responsible for that (assuming that it wasn't an 'event') has I think seriously overestimated the ability of the Town to see anything objectively. I think now it will take nothing short of a miracle for us to avoid losing this game...

[sig]

You're going to attempt saving Glof?

Okay. I want to see this play out.

Well I mean I learned in Turf War not to fight to hard to save someone. :P

However, yes he is a civ imo, I think I have a good grasp of his meta and this seems like his civ game.

[sig]

and his doom and gloom predictions aren't very out of character for him. Though I disagree it is needed right now.

[Golden]

DEMOCRACY IN ACTION

Everyone was confused. Who, exactly, had voted for Gaius Baltar in the elections? No-one could quite figure it out. Everyone denied it was them. Fingers pointed in every direction.

In fact, it seemed to be all that occupied their minds for quite some time. There wasn't much to do on New Caprica, after all.

A shot rang out somewhere - everyone heard it. They rushed around, trying to find what had happened. All they could find was a marmot, lying in a pool of blood. It had clearly been shot, but no-one could find the culprit anywhere.

Marmot has died. It is now Day Seven. You have 48 hours to catch you a baddie.

[Golden]

Hey gang,

Admiral Adama here. Weird couple of days, huh? It's starting to seem like everyone is a cylon except for me, ya bunch of creepy space robots! Well listen here. I'm your Admiral, proudly so, and that means I have to take it upon myself to facilitate peaceful communication between the humans and the space robots. I require that everyone state clearly and publicly what the believe the allegiances to be of the following likely cylons: Epignosis, DrWilgy, and Glorfindel. This is a direct order, and know that I am giving it with the best intentions. No exceptions. Everyone must submit a response before the end of the day or I will be forced to take action with my rightful authority as Admiral. Thank you for your cooperation.

|||@@@@@@@@@|||
|||SO SAY WE ALL.|||
|||#############|||

[Golden]

The president of the colonies has enacted a new law:

Wills of the Dead Act: Deceased players will have their last will and testament publicly read. Any deceased players may send one sentence to the host each night to be published in the thread the following day, which may be on topic but may not be longer than 25 words. All sentences received will be published together and will not be attributed.

[insertnamehere]

So Say We All!

Epignosis: Civilian

DrWigly: Civilian

Glorfindel: Independent

I don't really have anything against the first two, and I think Glor is Caprica Six who has her own MO.

[sig]

So Say We All

RIP marmot he was dead as soon as the old presidents laws were gone.

[sig]

Wilgy Mafia
Epi Civ
Glorfindel Civ

[Epignosis]

SO SAY WE ALL!

Whatever happened at the end of the last Day phase achieved one extremely important thing - it disrupted the Mafia's plans and gave us a valuable opportunity to step back and re-assess what is happening here. Whoever was responsible for that (assuming that it wasn't an 'event') has I think seriously overestimated the ability of the Town to see anything objectively. I think now it will take nothing short of a miracle for us to avoid losing this game...

I'm going to vote for you if you don't start being more specific.

Who is the Mafia and what were their plans?

If you have a valuable opportunity to reassess what is happening here, why can't you state what your assessment is?

Why do civilians need a miracle to win at this stage?

[Glorfindel]

Hey gang,

Admiral Adama here. Weird couple of days, huh? It's starting to seem like everyone is a cylon except for me, ya bunch of creepy space robots! Well listen here. I'm your Admiral, proudly so, and that means I have to take it upon myself to facilitate peaceful communication between the humans and the space robots. I require that everyone state clearly and publicly what the believe the allegiances to be of the following likely cylons: Epignosis, DrWilgy, and Glorfindel. This is a direct order, and know that I am giving it with the best intentions. No exceptions. Everyone must submit a response before the end of the day or I will be forced to take action with my rightful authority as Admiral. Thank you for your cooperation.

|||@@@@@@@@@|||
|||SO SAY WE ALL.|||
|||#############|||

So Say We All!

Epignosis (Town)
DrWilgy (Town)
Glorfindel (Town)

[Glorfindel]

Glorfindel, what is the purpose of you claiming to be a cylon at the end of the day phase if you're not a cylon?

Are you a Cylon 3J? Did you claim? Perhaps it was the same reason you did?

[bea]

Super linki - so say we all!


Dear Admiral Adama - I belive it is very likely that epi, wigly and glor are all town cylons.
I truely believe that Cavil and his followers aren't going to be as easy to find as the ones who last second claimed.


I'm a human civ and I was opposed to the claiming. For a long time. I think the evol cylons claimed early and have been mislynch riding this. See my posts about wtf is going on re: lorab. re: sig the day he claimed re: glor the day he claimed.

I think - honestly all we've done is maybe clue cavil into the cylons he needs to be rid of.

but you know...wtf do I know? I'm just dumb drfunk bea... buzzing around...queen nub for a reason.

(and really queen nub. All the roles I thought I knew were flipped 16 ways from sunday this last day cycle.)

So say we all.

Alright folks, here's six days worth of technicolor vote breakdowns. I fixed Day 4 per Golden's authoritative list. Still no official list on Day 5 or 6, so I am just assuming that Bea's vote for Glorfindel Day 6 counted.

Teamwork behavior can't stay hidden in the voting forever (it's how we got our groove back in Biblical, true story), so let's dig in and examine our suspects. We have plenty of them. What you want to do is look at when a person votes and who they vote for. Also pay attention to the voting happening around them, both before and after. This is why I have two lists formats. One is just voting order but the other chunks voters together by who they voted for.

Look at everything- clusters of votes for the same person, clusters of votes that go back and forth, gaps between votes for the same player, votes that seem to mark a shift in momentum. Put on your tin foil hats and try to see how your top suspects could be the baddiest baddie that ever was bad. The trick is to not focus too much on just one day of votes. If you think you see something suspicious, take it to the next level and compare that day's votes to the next day. You may find suspected teammate behavior confirmed or called into question by what you see.

I say pick your top two or three suspects, go to town, and share what you think you see in the technicolors. Keep thread content in mind but vote analysis is void of tone interpretation. It's all hard facts. Who voted for whom and when. Share your findings and we can discuss/debate the veracity of what you think you see.

I took the liberty of marking DrWilgy and Glorfindel as Toasters because I think the evidence from the previous two lynches points to both of them being such.

Since I already believe Glorfindel to be a Toaster, I am going to look at the two players who nearly wrecked our chances of confirming Glorfindel's status- DrumBeats and rabbit8.


DAY 1

Spoiler: show

IN VOTE ORDER:

1. EPIGNOSIS (Metalmarsh89)
2. IKA (Vompatti)
3. MATT (Long Con)<----SECRET ROLE-Admiral Cain- Lynched
4. POLO (ObscureAllure)
5. BLACK ROCK (a2thezebra)
6. OBSCUREALLURE (Nerolunar)<----HUMAN-lynched
7. EPIGNOSIS (Silverwolf)
8. DFARADAY (Scotty)<----NK'd
9. RICOCHET (Matt)
10. EPIGNOSIS (Ika)<----NK'd
11. s~v~s (Ricochet)
12. RICOCHET (DrumBeats)
13. MATT (Spacedaisy)<----NK'd
14. LONG CON (sig)
15. METALMARSH89 (juliets)<----HUMAN-Hot Dog- Died in sortie
16. RICOCHET (S~V~S)
17. EPIGNOSIS (indiglo)<----NK'd
18. METALMARSH89 (G-Man)
19. EPIGNOSIS (JaggedJimmyJay)
20. INAWORDYES (LoRab)<----CYLON #3- Lynched

MISSED THE VOTE:
Bea
DFaraday
Inawordyes/DrWilgy<----CYLON #?
Epignosis<----CYLON #8
Glorfindel<----CYLON #?
Nutella<----CYLON #4- Lynched
Sokoth


DISQUALIFIED VOTES:
Black Rock
Polo



PER VOTE RECIPIENT:

1. EPIGNOSIS (Metalmarsh89)
7. EPIGNOSIS (Silverwolf)
10. EPIGNOSIS (Ika)<----NK'd
17. EPIGNOSIS (indiglo)<----NK'd
19. EPIGNOSIS (JaggedJimmyJay)

9. RICOCHET (Matt)
12. RICOCHET (DrumBeats)
16. RICOCHET (S~V~S)

3. MATT (Long Con)<----SECRET ROLE-Admiral Cain- Lynched
13. MATT (Spacedaisy)<----NK'd

15. METALMARSH89 (juliets)<----HUMAN-Hot Dog- Died in sortie
18. METALMARSH89 (G-Man)

2. IKA (Vompatti)

4. POLO (ObscureAllure)

5. BLACK ROCK (a2thezebra)

6. OBSCUREALLURE (Nerolunar)<----HUMAN-lynched

8. DFARADAY (Scotty)<----NK'd

11. s~v~s (Ricochet)

14. LONG CON (sig)

20. INAWORDYES (LoRab)<----CYLON #3- Lynched


MISSED THE VOTE:
Bea
DFaraday
Inawordyes/DrWilgy<----CYLON #?
Epignosis<----CYLON #8
Glorfindel<----CYLON #?
Nutella<----CYLON #4- Lynched
Sokoth


DISQUALIFIED VOTES:
Black Rock
Polo

DAY 2

Spoiler: show

IN VOTE ORDER:

1. A2THEZEBRA (Metalmarsh89)
2. RICOCHET (a2thezebra)
3. NUTELLA (G-Man)
4. LONG CON (Nerolunar)<----HUMAN-lynched
5. VOMPATTI (Vompatti)
6. LONG CON (indiglo)<----NK'd
7. LONG CON (LoRab)<----CYLON #3- Lynched
8. A2THEZEBRA (Matt)
9. NUTELLA (S~V~S)
10. NUTELLA (Silverwolf)
11. EPIGNOSIS (sig)
12. SIG (Long Con)<----SECRET ROLE-Admiral Cain- Lynched
13. NUTELLA (ObscureAllure)
14. NUTELLA (Scotty)<----NK'd
15. LORAB (bea)
16. A2THEZEBRA (Ricochet)
17. EPIGNOSIS (DrWilgy)<----CYLON #?
18. VOMPATTI (Polo)
19. LONG CON (Spacedaisy)<----NK'd
20. NUTELLA (juliets)<----HUMAN-Hot Dog- Died in sortie
21. LONG CON (nutella)<----CYLON #4- Lynched
22. NUTELLA (JaggedJimmyJay)
23. A2THEZEBRA (DFaraday)
24. NUTELLA (Black Rock)
25. NUTELLA (DrumBeats)
26. LONG CON (Glorfindel)<----CYLON #?

MISSED THE VOTE:
Epignosis<----CYLON #8
SokothQultuq


PER VOTE RECIPIENT:

3. NUTELLA (G-Man)
9. NUTELLA (S~V~S)
10. NUTELLA (Silverwolf)
13. NUTELLA (ObscureAllure)
14. NUTELLA (Scotty)<----NK'd
20. NUTELLA (juliets)<----HUMAN-Hot Dog- Died in sortie
22. NUTELLA (JaggedJimmyJay)
24. NUTELLA (Black Rock)
25. NUTELLA (DrumBeats)

4. LONG CON (Nerolunar)<----HUMAN-lynched
6. LONG CON (indiglo)<----NK'd
7. LONG CON (LoRab)<----CYLON #3- Lynched
19. LONG CON (Spacedaisy)<----NK'd
21. LONG CON (nutella)<----CYLON #4- Lynched
26. LONG CON (Glorfindel)<----CYLON #?

1. A2THEZEBRA (Metalmarsh89)
8. A2THEZEBRA (Matt)
16. A2THEZEBRA (Ricochet)
23. A2THEZEBRA (DFaraday)

5. VOMPATTI (Vompatti)
18. VOMPATTI (Polo)

11. EPIGNOSIS (sig)
17. EPIGNOSIS (DrWilgy)<----CYLON #?

2. RICOCHET (a2thezebra)

12. SIG (Long Con)<----SECRET ROLE-Admiral Cain- Lynched

15. LORAB (bea)


MISSED THE VOTE:
Epignosis<----CYLON #8
SokothQultuq

DAY 3

Spoiler: show

IN VOTE ORDER:

1. RICOCHET (Long Con)<----SECRET ROLE-Admiral Cain- Lynched
2. SIG (Scotty)<----NK'd
3. S~V~S (Matt)
4. DRWILGY (Nerolunar)<----HUMAN-lynched
5. LORAB (Polo)
6. LORAB (a2thezebra)
7. LORAB (Vompatti)
8. LORAB (Ricochet)
9. LORAB (S~V~S)
10. LORAB (DFaraday)
11. LORAB (JaggedJimmyJay)
12. BEA (LoRab)<----CYLON #3- Lynched
13. NEROLUNAR (ObscureAllure)
14. NEROLUNAR (Epignosis)<----CYLON #8
15. JAGGEDJIMMYJAY (SokothQultuq)
16. NEROLUNAR (Juliets)<----HUMAN-Hot Dog- Died in sortie
17. NEROLUNAR (sig)
18. NEROLUNAR (Glorfindel)<----CYLON #?
19. GLORFINDEL (G-Man)
20. NEROLUNAR (Bea)
21. NEROLUNAR (DrumBeats)
22. LORAB (Black Rock)
23. LORAB (Spacedaisy)<----NK'd
24. NEROLUNAR (DrWilgy)<----CYLON #?
25. NEROLUNAR (Metalmarsh89)

MISSED THE VOTE:
Silverwolf

DISQUALIFIED VOTES:
SokothQultuq


PER VOTE RECIPIENT:

5. LORAB (Polo)
6. LORAB (a2thezebra)
7. LORAB (Vompatti)
8. LORAB (Ricochet)
9. LORAB (S~V~S)
10. LORAB (DFaraday)
11. LORAB (JaggedJimmyJay)
22. LORAB (Black Rock)
23. LORAB (Spacedaisy)<----NK'd

13. NEROLUNAR (ObscureAllure)
14. NEROLUNAR (Epignosis)<----CYLON #8
16. NEROLUNAR (Juliets)<----HUMAN-Hot Dog- Died in sortie
17. NEROLUNAR (sig)
18. NEROLUNAR (Glorfindel)<----CYLON #?
20. NEROLUNAR (Bea)
21. NEROLUNAR (DrumBeats)
24. NEROLUNAR (DrWilgy)<----CYLON #?
25. NEROLUNAR (Metalmarsh89)

1. RICOCHET (Long Con)<----SECRET ROLE-Admiral Cain- Lynched

2. SIG (Scotty)<----NK'd

3. S~V~S (Matt)

4. DRWILGY (Nerolunar)<----HUMAN-lynched

12. BEA (LoRab)<----CYLON #3- Lynched

15. JAGGEDJIMMYJAY (SokothQultuq)

19. GLORFINDEL (G-Man)


MISSED THE VOTE:
Silverwolf

DISQUALIFIED VOTES:
SokothQultuq

DAY 4

Spoiler: show

IN VOTE ORDER:
1. LORAB (DrumBeats)
2. LORAB (Polo)
3. LORAB (ObscureAllure)
4. LORAB (SokothQultuq)
5. LORAB (a2thezebra)
6. DFARADAY (Metalmarsh89)
7. DFARADAY (Silverwolf)
8. SIG (Scotty)<----NK'd
9. LORAB (DFaraday)
10.DFARADAY (Long Con)<----SECRET ROLE-Admiral Cain- Lynched
11. LORAB (Matt)
12. LORAB (Black Rock)
13. A2THEZEBRA (sig)
14. LORAB (juliets)<----HUMAN-Hot Dog- Died in sortie
15. A2THEZEBRA (Vompatti)
16. SIG (Epignosis)<----CYLON #8
17. LORAB (S~V~S)
18. SIG (DrWilgy)<----CYLON #?
19. SIG (JaggedJimmyJay)
20. LORAB (Ricochet)
21 LORAB (bea)
22. DRWILGY (Glorfindel)<----CYLON #?
23. LORAB (Spacedaisy)<----NK'd
24. SIG (LoRab)<----CYLON #3- Lynched

MISSED THE VOTE:
G-Man



PER VOTE RECIPIENT:

1. LORAB (DrumBeats)
2. LORAB (Polo)
3. LORAB (ObscureAllure)
4. LORAB (SokothQultuq)
5. LORAB (a2thezebra)
9. LORAB (DFaraday)
11. LORAB (Matt)
12. LORAB (Black Rock)
14. LORAB (juliets)<----HUMAN-Hot Dog- Died in sortie
17. LORAB (S~V~S)
20. LORAB (Ricochet)
21. LORAB (bea)
23. LORAB (Spacedaisy)<----NK'd

8. SIG (Scotty)<----NK'd
16. SIG (Epignosis)<----CYLON #8
18. SIG (DrWilgy)<----CYLON #?
19. SIG (JaggedJimmyJay)
24. SIG (LoRab)<----CYLON #3- Lynched

6. DFARADAY (Metalmarsh89)
7. DFARADAY (Silverwolf)
10.DFARADAY (Long Con)<----SECRET ROLE-Admiral Cain- Lynched

13. A2THEZEBRA (sig)
15. A2THEZEBRA (Vompatti)

22. DRWILGY (Glorfindel)<----CYLON #?


MISSED THE VOTE:
G-Man

DAY 5

Spoiler: show

IN VOTE ORDER:
1. SIG (a2thezebra)
2. GLORFINDEL (Polo)
3. OBSCUREALLURE (Matt)
4. DRWILGY (ObscureAllure)
5. LONG CON (Dex)
6. LONG CON (Spacedaisy)<----NK'd
7. DRWILGY (Silverwolf)
8. DRWILGY (Metalmarsh89)
9. DRWILGY (Long Con)<----SECRET ROLE-Admiral Cain- Lynched
10. GLORFINDEL (G-Man)
11. LONG CON (Ricochet)
12. LONG CON (JaggedJimmyJay)
13. GLORFINDEL (Epignosis)<----CYLON #8
14. DRWILGY (Glorfindel)<----CYLON #?
15. DRWILGY (S~V~S)
16. SIG (bea)
17. DRWILGY (Black Rock)
18. DRWILGY (SokothQultuq)
19. DRWILGY (sig)


MISSED THE VOTE:
DrumBeats
DrWilgy<----CYLON #?
Vompatti



PER VOTE RECIPIENT:

5. LONG CON (Dex)
6. LONG CON (Spacedaisy)<----NK'd
11. LONG CON (Ricochet)
12. LONG CON (JaggedJimmyJay)

4. DRWILGY (ObscureAllure)
7. DRWILGY (Silverwolf)
8. DRWILGY (Metalmarsh89)
9. DRWILGY (Long Con)<----SECRET ROLE-Admiral Cain- Lynched
14. DRWILGY (Glorfindel)<----CYLON #?
15. DRWILGY (S~V~S)
17. DRWILGY (Black Rock)
18. DRWILGY (SokothQultuq)
19. DRWILGY (sig)

2. GLORFINDEL (Polo)
10. GLORFINDEL (G-Man)
13. GLORFINDEL (Epignosis)<----CYLON #8

1. SIG (a2thezebra)
16. SIG (bea)

3. OBSCUREALLURE (Matt)

MISSED THE VOTE:
DrumBeats
DrWilgy<----CYLON #?
Vompatti

DAY 6

Spoiler: show

IN VOTE ORDER:
1. A2THEZEBRA/RABBIT8 (Polo)
2. GLORFINDEL (Dex)
3. A2THEZEBRA/RABBIT8 (Vompatti)
4. GLORFINDEL (Vompatti)
5. OBSCUREALLURE (DrWilgy)<----CYLON #?
6. DRWILGY (Obscure Allure)
7. DRWILGY (SokothQultuq)
8. DRUMBEATS (Epignosis)
9. SIG (Metalmarsh89)
10. GLORFINDEL (Matt)
11. GLORFINDEL (insertnamehere)
12. A2THEZEBRA/RABBIT8 (Ricochet)
13. GLORFINDEL (G-Man)
14. SIG (S~V~S)
15. SIG (JaggedJimmyJay)
16. SIG (DrumBeats)
17. BLACK ROCK (Glorfindel)<----CYLON #?
18. SIG (rabbit8)
19. GLORFINDEL (sig)
20. GLORFINDEL (bea)

MISSED VOTES:
Black Rock



PER VOTE RECIPIENT:
2. GLORFINDEL (Dex)
4. GLORFINDEL (Vompatti)
10. GLORFINDEL (Matt)
11. GLORFINDEL (insertnamehere)
13. GLORFINDEL (G-Man)
19. GLORFINDEL (sig)
20. GLORFINDEL (bea)

9. SIG (Metalmarsh89)
14. SIG (S~V~S)
15. SIG (JaggedJimmyJay)
16. SIG (DrumBeats)
18. SIG (rabbit8)

1. A2THEZEBRA/RABBIT8 (Polo)
3. A2THEZEBRA/RABBIT8 (Vompatti)
12. A2THEZEBRA/RABBIT8 (Ricochet)

6. DRWILGY (Obscure Allure)
7. DRWILGY (SokothQultuq)

5. OBSCUREALLURE (DrWilgy)<----CYLON #?

8. DRUMBEATS (Epignosis)

17. BLACK ROCK (Glorfindel)<----CYLON #?

MISSED VOTES:
Black Rock

Look - I know i've had several adult beverages that may make me miss the larger picture - but looking back on your technicolor list - I'm not at all sure what you are trying to say. Even in regards to my votes. And I know why I made each vote I made.

Please explain this to me like I'm a 3 year old. cuz I really kinda am - like alway. I'm a drunk 3 year old or a desperately ingesting coffee 3 year old. Those are my prime mafia times. Probably not the best logicstic times to play the game but it's what my free time affords me.

[Glorfindel]

SO SAY WE ALL!

Whatever happened at the end of the last Day phase achieved one extremely important thing - it disrupted the Mafia's plans and gave us a valuable opportunity to step back and re-assess what is happening here. Whoever was responsible for that (assuming that it wasn't an 'event') has I think seriously overestimated the ability of the Town to see anything objectively. I think now it will take nothing short of a miracle for us to avoid losing this game...

I'm going to vote for you if you don't start being more specific.

Who is the Mafia and what were their plans?

If you have a valuable opportunity to reassess what is happening here, why can't you state what your assessment is?

Why do civilians need a miracle to win at this stage?

So Say We All!
Pardon my sarcasm here but I thought you were already voting for me (when you're not voting for Drumbeats who in my estimation is a far better bet). The Mafia are our opponents and they are trying to defeat us and in my estimation doing a fine job so far. They would be the ones capitalizing on the (niave, in my opinion) anti-Cylon sentiment that has been rife so far this game. They have very successfully used 'lore' extensively to advance their agenda. I've been saying this for days, it escapes me why you (and others) can't see it (perhaps I should give away communicating in words and draw pictures instead? :P Now before you ask me again, I don't know who the Mafia are (if I did, this game would be near over) but I believe the majority of the Cylons (contrary to popular opinion) are Town aligned. I don't know which ones aren't but I suspect it will be a minority of them - perhaps Cavill and one or two others, with two or three Humans, who knows. We haven't been supplied with that information so we're kinda stumbling around in the dark.

I really don't understand the Final Five thing at all. Sure, five Humans become Cylon but does that mean wholly or partially Mafia Cylon - hasn't been made clear. If anyone has any thoughts on that, I'm all ears. What concerns me is that so many players harbour anti-Cylon intents. To my thinking, these people fall into one of three categories:

1. Humans that have to believe that (I think you can deduce the identity of the specific characters from the index on page 1)
2. The Mafia - It is clearly in the interests of the Mafia Cylons to focus their campaign on the destruction of the non-Mafia (or Town Cylons) as it diverts attention away from the Mafia Human faction - which I think they've done to a remarkable extent.
3. The Town Human population that have been cojolled, hoodwinked, (insert any other suitable verb here) into believing that all (or most Cylons) are their enemies.

I hope that answers your questions - I feel like a voice crying in the wilderness here (not new for me actually :P ) that no one other than 3J is willing to even consider the possibility. In my opinion, we have a more dangerous enemy here than our Mafia team - it's our lack of objectivity that is hurting us more.

[bea]

So yeah, I voted for sig to save my own ass. Anyone who can't understand that and thinks there was some case I made on him, well.....

wabbit -I ask you tried and true. Do you see what I was saying or do you still think I was buddying bad?
at this point in my catch up you have not addressed me after making a fairly large case - and after me responding. I don't know what to make of any of that. Are we good? I feel like we should be on the same page? If there's something I'm missing please clue me in. Cuz I really really think that you and me and svs could all be civs. I know it's crazy talk. but possible...

[ObscureAllure]

Hey gang,

Admiral Adama here. Weird couple of days, huh? It's starting to seem like everyone is a cylon except for me, ya bunch of creepy space robots! Well listen here. I'm your Admiral, proudly so, and that means I have to take it upon myself to facilitate peaceful communication between the humans and the space robots. I require that everyone state clearly and publicly what the believe the allegiances to be of the following likely cylons: Epignosis, DrWilgy, and Glorfindel. This is a direct order, and know that I am giving it with the best intentions. No exceptions. Everyone must submit a response before the end of the day or I will be forced to take action with my rightful authority as Admiral. Thank you for your cooperation.

|||@@@@@@@@@|||
|||SO SAY WE ALL.|||
|||#############|||

So Say We All!

Epignosis (Town)
DrWilgy (Mafia)
Glorfindel (Mafia)

[bea]

The president of the colonies has enacted a new law:

Wills of the Dead Act: Deceased players will have their last will and testament publicly read. Any deceased players may send one sentence to the host each night to be published in the thread the following day, which may be on topic but may not be longer than 25 words. All sentences received will be published together and will not be attributed.

I'm curious as to what the dead have to say.

I know that rez hubs are rez hubs.

Outside of that - it feels like truely dead can talk. And I truely don't care if they were cylon or human while they were alive - I care about how they can help the most of us win.

I will adore day of the dead!

[bea]

Hey gang,

Admiral Adama here. Weird couple of days, huh? It's starting to seem like everyone is a cylon except for me, ya bunch of creepy space robots! Well listen here. I'm your Admiral, proudly so, and that means I have to take it upon myself to facilitate peaceful communication between the humans and the space robots. I require that everyone state clearly and publicly what the believe the allegiances to be of the following likely cylons: Epignosis, DrWilgy, and Glorfindel. This is a direct order, and know that I am giving it with the best intentions. No exceptions. Everyone must submit a response before the end of the day or I will be forced to take action with my rightful authority as Admiral. Thank you for your cooperation.

|||@@@@@@@@@|||
|||SO SAY WE ALL.|||
|||#############|||

So Say We All!

Epignosis (Town)
DrWilgy (Mafia)
Glorfindel (Mafia)

why specifally do you see wilgy and glor as mafia? Please forgive me for missing it - you've spent more time insanified than not this game.

You seem to be allowed now again at night to speak clear and free - why is epi town and glor and wigly bad?? and why when you were insanified your clear posts were all kinda about bea being bad?

while you can - if you really think I am bad - present a case. I'm happy to address concerns - I won't chase shaddows of "bea is bad for no reason"

[Ricochet]

So say we all.

Epignosis - Town
DrWilgy - Town
Glorfindel - Need to think about it; you'll have my answer by the end of Day, Sir!

[bea]

So Say We All

RIP marmot he was dead as soon as the old presidents laws were gone.

truth - way to keep yourself alive as long as you could though newt.

[Dex]

SO SAY WE ALL!

Epi: civ
Wilgy: civ
Glorf: mafia

[Dex]

Man, as soon as the Marmot protection act expires - bam. Going to miss you, Marmot.

[bea]

Dex - again. Explain it to me like I'm dumb
Cuz I really . Why Wilgy civ and not glor? What am I missing?

[Ricochet]

7.1

A countereffect of a law that's in no way mentioned in that law sounds like too much crazy stuff happening backstage.

Balancing effect. I used them in a lot of my games.

Well balance comes in the Host design. The Law's content is not the Host's creation. At the very best the Host could moderate the Law the Presidents creates, if necessary, but once issued, if there are "balancing" issues and the Host would need to modify something, again, it would sound like too much crazy backstage stuff. Henceforth, I see not reason to believe a clause that the first baddie Cylon's claim and survival would trigger something, if purely based on the Law.

===

7.2

So no chance of hearing from you why you think you survived the lynch, if it wasn't for you claiming Cylon, huh? Image

Or let me try to understand. Mafia was "perfectly executing" a plan to lynch you (and sig), upon which you claimed Cylon, and Mafia suddenly scrambled to push you further in the lynch. Which you survived.

So you've thwarted Mafia's plan to lynch you by claiming, which resulted in... you... getting lynched.



What about Dex and Polo makes you think they've contributed to the "stitch-up". Polo voted Zebra and Dex was the first to vote you, way ahead of the Day Phase.

Interesting that you mention nothing of players like Matt, G-Man, Sig or Bea, who actively pushed you ahead, nor do you bring up players like DrumBeats or Rabbit, who might look like having tried to even out sig (which, according to you, was also unjustly hunted) with you in the tally, at least for a while. Do they deserve a closer look or not?

Let me just say - I have been playing Mafia games now for just on three years and this Town team is continuing to demonstrate that it is the most inept of any that I have been a part. All I see is this myopic view of the game, it's mechanics and its players. I see next to no objective analysis and lots of bizarre theorizing (G-Man's rainbow list voting records excluded).

I'm sure you've been told this before, but your ways to appeal to your playing years and to emotion are absolutely wild, at every opportunity. I will just say that this paragraph doesn't give me any answers. Objective analysis? Go on then, I've specifically asked you how a number of player (Dex, Matt, G-Man, Sig, Bea - on the side voting you; Polo - on the sideline voting side; Beats or Rabbit - on the voting sig side) look from Day Six lynch and you tell me nothing. Objectively, myopically or otherwise. Is this your idea of being straightforward, while thee rest of us are supposed "myopic", "inept", hooked on "bizarre theory" juju, etc.? Post. On. Point.

I see a lot of people continuing to suspect me. The PROOF that I'm Cylon lay in the proposition that had I claimed immunity under the Cylon Amnesty Act and been the leading wagon at the EoD, the player with the next largest wagon would've been eliminated.
FACT: That didn't happen. Despite how you subjectively interpret whatever happened there is NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE to support that view.

Indeed, there is no 100% proof and evidence and, unless you got that impression from someone else, I see no reason to assume such certainty. Nevertheless, I would say we are closer to such evidence, based on... actually see below.

People assume that what happened was a save on Sig by someone. Again, this is conjecture and was based on the ASSSUMPTION that the lynch passed to him on the basis of what I've written above. No one has yet considered the possibility that the save was on me. I'd like to think that someone out there (even if they won't declare it publicly) is convinced that there is some substance to the way I've interpreted this game.

To be fair, I raised the issue of you having been the save one, but then I found counter-arguments rather convincing. The main one concerning why you went to the trouble of Cylon claiming, if the outcome of you being saved, would have been familiar or expected in your mind. Can you rebut on this, on point?

I'm willing to look at all substances in which to interpret this game, you just have to be more on point about what I should take into consideration and how can that hold up in light of events that have occured.

And yet, what do I find here this morning? Wild assumptions about Presidential lines of success, etc. I don't categorise this as analysis, I think a better analogy would Nero fiddling while Rome burns and all the time, the Mafia are there throwing more fuel on the fire... And yes, I still maintain that this game is rapidly slipping from our grasp. From the content of the discussions I've seen so far this Night phase I seriously and genuinely doubt our Team even possesses the capacity to win this game

Never asked you about any of this. Never asked you about town chances. I frankly also don't care about your views on how bad town is supposed to be doing. It's irrelevant to the energy I invest in this game and the spirit in which I play, and it's always just an added paragraph of (to quote Epig) "doom and gloom" that's not relevant to the topics I wish to discuss with you. Please let us discuss topics on point, the rest of your recurrent impressions are prolix and of no "objective" substance.

To recap the topics I want to discuss and what I've gotten so far from you:

1. How are we to treat your Day Six survival, outside the posibility that your Cylon claim was genuine? | You partially expressed the view that you might have been saved, but you didn't argument it, you've just made an appeal to people being obtuse.

2. You've nominated Dex and Polo and suspects. How did they contribute to the lynches, in a suspicious way? | You never answered.

3. Why do none of the players who actually pushed you close to lynch bother you? Do any of them bother you with how they voted on Day Six? Let's talk Matt, G-Man, Bea, on sig you've already answered. | You never answered.

4. Why do none of the players who actually pushed sig close to lynch bother you, if you claim that both you and sig were in a position to be mislynched, mistreated, manipulated into dying by Mafia? This means DrumBeats and Rabbit. | You never answered.

Let's talk these on point. Not with "you know, I've played this game for so long"; not with "oh the town's perspectives are so deplorable"; not with "I see no winning horizon for the <<Team>>"; not with "nobody understands me".

On point.

[Dex]

All Along the Watchtower.

Just testing.