MAD MAX: GAME OVER

[LoRab]

LoRab, why are you leaning toward Dom? This day and the game depend on the two of us coming to an agreement. Let's put our heads together.

Tone, mostly. He's posting like a trapped rabid animal, which I associate with his baddie game. It's connected to the paranoia which pinged me earlier.

What gives me hesitation is that I don't know Quin's game that well, and it scares me that he seems so sure of himself for whta doesn't seem like a rock solid case to me. But, that said, I associate stuboornness like that with civs more than baddies. Baddies don't generally want to stand out like that and stick to a case that doesn't make solid sense to others. They don't necessarily want their vote to be the outlier. He's voted Dom for how many days now?

[LoRab]

Put vote on Dom for now

[Sloonei]

LoRab, why are you leaning toward Dom? This day and the game depend on the two of us coming to an agreement. Let's put our heads together.

Tone, mostly. He's posting like a trapped rabid animal, which I associate with his baddie game. It's connected to the paranoia which pinged me earlier.

What gives me hesitation is that I don't know Quin's game that well, and it scares me that he seems so sure of himself for whta doesn't seem like a rock solid case to me. But, that said, I associate stuboornness like that with civs more than baddies. Baddies don't generally want to stand out like that and stick to a case that doesn't make solid sense to others. They don't necessarily want their vote to be the outlier. He's voted Dom for how many days now?

I don't think I've ever seen a bad Dom before. What are some games I could look at for reference? The "trapped rabid animal" impression you have is the same I got from him on Day 6, but I read it as townie behavior at the time. If this is Dom's scum MO then that's big news.

Quin's confidence is not shocking or unbelievable to me. He holds onto convictions firmly when he has them. There was a game a couple months ago (I forget which one) where the two of us spent the entire time going hard after one another to the point where we couldn't see the other being town in any situation. We were both town. Most of my questions at Quin in this game have been an effort to get him to trip up or give me some thread I can tug at in case he's bad and he really has not given me much to work with. I've been reading him as town on every level but paranoia is getting to me. My vote for Quin was more about shaking things up than actually having a preference either way. I just re-read everything that happened around the deadline yesterday and I feel better about Quin again.

[Sloonei]

Here for an hour, yo. I voted indiglo.

I'm not seeing some of your case, zebra. When you first bring up his rainbow lists you claim that it's suspicious that he's only sorted it into three categories as though there's some sort of strong civ/strong bad quota that he's expected to meet. I think that's a poor case. That was a Day 1 list, too. I can understand why it's not so thorough.

However, I agree that it's odd to suggest that the people he's put at the bottom of his 5-tier list are 'not particularly crazy suspicious'. I'd be more inclined to believe it if he didn't bother adding a strong bad tier.

Regarding the underlined, that's not the whole case??? What???

Why make Day 1 rainbow lists (because that's right he made TWO rainbow lists on Day 1), which are meant to be thorough by definition, if they're not going to be thorough? Why not just list the reads that you feel relatively confident about and leave it at that, rather than trying to appear a thousand times more substantive? Come on.

linki - I'd be much more likely to vote for Scotty than indiglo. indiglo's frustration appears genuine to me, and if she were bad I actually think she would tone down the rage so as not to stand out as much. Scotty seems a bit too chill knowing that he's replaced a highly suspected slot. I have been wrong about him before though. Like earlier in this very game but hey whatever am I right

linki - I'll take my vote off of MP if (and only if) it is to prevent a tie.

Rainbow lists aren't particularly thorough at all in comparison to a built case. It's just a framework, for lack of a better word. I guess I am a little concerned about his decision to specify that his leanings were slight when a three-tier list generally doesn't go into that level of detail. I'd like him to address your concerns.

This is the most noteworthy interaction between zebra and quin and, once again, I think Quin comes out of it looking good. He addresses a concern he has about a specific aspect of zebra's mega-case against MP and shows that he is actively reading and thinking about the things that were being said. Zebra's response also looks sincere, in that she's trying to defend her case to Quin and not just vomiting word garbage at a teammate in the thread. Meanwhile, Dom's response to the same case was "this is really well done."

at a certain point I should just trust what my instincts are telling me and vote for Dom.

[Sloonei]

I come back to this thread and what do I find? Isn't this just charming... Seriously, if I'm the best you guys can come up with, we're in more trouble than I could've imagined...

I've literally read next to nothing that's been posted this Day phase so on the basis of my inability to make an informed decision right now, self preservation will determine my vote.

Emotional manipulation doesn't play well.

I've voted you at the moment for self preservation.

Was this vote cast out of self-preservation or because of Glorfindel's "emotional manipulation"?

[LoRab]

I can't think of baddie games of Dom's off hand, but that's the impression that I have from years of playing with him, that he gets more trapped and emotional sounding when he's bad and suspected than when he's good and suspected. It's not scientific, but it's my overall sense of him.

And those are additional reasons to believe that Quin is more likely good.

[Sloonei]

I do not suspect Elohcin.

Why not?

i don't think anything she's done is abnormal for her civvie game... maybe a better way of saying it is that nothing she's done has made me think she is bad

Can you differentiate between what she does as a civilian and what she does as Mafia?

No explicitly, no.

I just take more convincing than most to find Elohcin suspicious.

In the first line Dom admits to having difficulty reading Elohcin. In the second line he seems to suggest he has a particular outlook on Elohcin that others do not have. This looks like Dom giving Eloh a town read but not knowing how to back it up.

I do not suspect Elohcin.

Why not?

i don't think anything she's done is abnormal for her civvie game... maybe a better way of saying it is that nothing she's done has made me think she is bad

I don't disagree with this. What do you think of the case Neil Hartley made against her and the way he went about doing it?

Didn't convince me.
Don't necessarily think he's bad either.

Once again, zero elaboration.

[Sloonei]

Epi, blink twice if your vote was forced. Otherwise, I'm gonna have to agree with Zebra that your pithy evasive non-answers are only making this one small thing into something more and more fishy.

What do you mean by forced? On Day 1? With no public coercer role?

my thoughts exactly

"Yes, let's suspect INH for this bogus theory."

(let's pretend I didn't submit the ultimate bogus INH case this game)

[Sloonei]

Dom once again sits out the lynch.

Hi there.
Excuse me?

You parked your vote on MP early on. Again.

Explain to me how that's sitting out.
I voted someone who I believed was baddie. I made multiple posts trying to convince others to vote with me.

I find curious that Dom hasn't responded to any of my posts that mention him...

You mean where you said I am more paranoid as a baddie? Ok. Cool. Where am I paranoid? Because I made a case against MP because I believed (and kind of still do, but see the limits of the reality here) that he was buddying me? How is that paranoid?

Or are you talking about this:

My other suspicions are more amorphous: the low posters because they don't give us anything to go on. I keep getting pings from Dom, but he has also said things that feel civ to me--but he's on my list of considerations.

Which is so unsubstantial I don't even know how you'd like me to respond.

This post is a shitstorm. You do the following things in it:
1) Make no direct accusation. Let others do that for you.
2) Imply malintent on my part by using relatively *neutral* words like curious, but pairing it with an ellipses.
3) Not even have anything really to respond to.

The LoRab sections of this post are 100% omgus.

[Sloonei]

voting Dom again. I owe Quin another look too, but my eyes don't feel much like staying open right now.

[Sloonei]

if dom wants to link me to some past scum games of his i'll be happy.

[Dom]

I come back to this thread and what do I find? Isn't this just charming... Seriously, if I'm the best you guys can come up with, we're in more trouble than I could've imagined...

I've literally read next to nothing that's been posted this Day phase so on the basis of my inability to make an informed decision right now, self preservation will determine my vote.

Emotional manipulation doesn't play well.

I've voted you at the moment for self preservation.

Was this vote cast out of self-preservation or because of Glorfindel's "emotional manipulation"?

Both.

if dom wants to link me to some past scum games of his i'll be happy.

I feel like I have done this at least twice in this game. I have absolutely talked about this, maybe not linked, but talked about it.
I won this game bad
I wont this game bad
I lost this game bad.
I won this game bad, but replaced in.

Those are just recent-ish games.

[Dom]

I have been on the defensive since Day 6. I have done my best. It has sucked. I don't know what you want from me. I don't agree with or see Lorab's assessment of my play in any capacity.

[LoRab]

I have been on the defensive since Day 6. I have done my best. It has sucked. I don't know what you want from me. I don't agree with or see Lorab's assessment of my play in any capacity.

Show a civ game where you responded to every time your name was mentioned with the same level of emotional panic.

Show a baddie game where you responded more calmly to your name being mentioned.

The fact is in this game, as is your baddie MO, every time your name was mentioned (bad or good), it made your fur stand up, and it put you on the defensive.

I've doubted myself on you this game, because I don't read you as well as I used to. But you're bad, dude. I should have listened to those pings I had early on. Or listened to what it said when you first completely ignored and then totally freaked out that i had pings.

And also the fact that you accuse anyone who says anything about you that they are lying. Not that they are interpreting things incorrectly, or misremembering, or whatever--but that they are lying (and are bad).

The more I think about it, the more I'm feeling confident that you're the final baddie.

[Dom]

then lynch me so i get get off this site.

[LoRab]

Are you threatening to leave this site for good if you're lynched? Really? Why?

[Dom]

No.
It was a mistake to post that.
I apologize.

[Sloonei]

I am simply struggling to read Quin as bad in this game. I have tried very hard to do so but the absolute best I can do is the occasional tinfoil ping here and there. Dom's frustration has seemed real the last few days, but that can be the case regardless of his alignment. I am intrigued by LoRab's most recent post about him. Are you able to respond to that, Dom?

[Sloonei]

If anything is making me doubt Quin, it's the things I said in this post:

A couple thoughts about Epi started giving me pause in relation to Dom. I've vaguely referenced this earlier, but on Day 6 both Epi and Dom came out strongly against me in a spur of the moment attack. I have begun to doubt that that was a coordinated effort. There was no opportunity for the two of them to work out such a strategy beforehand; I made a post and Epi jammed it down my throat immediately. Dom picked up a subsequent suspicion of me for the same post. What reason would there be for two teammates to conspire to attack the same person for an as-yet undetermined case like that?

The other is Epi's concession. Even if he was having difficulty committing to this game and saw no room to defend himself, Epi is not one to throw a game away. Looking back on it, I feel uneasy. His behavior suggests to me that his teammate was, at the time, well-concealed and he felt confident in their ability to win the game without him, and so he sacrificed himself and snuffed the conversation for the day in the process. LoRab opted to extend the game today, so I give her a 0% chance of being a baddie at this point. INH is still Silvertongue. So this just leaves Quin (or me, from everyone else's perspective) as a candidate for Epi's hypothetical well-concealed partner.

[Dom]

I am simply struggling to read Quin as bad in this game. I have tried very hard to do so but the absolute best I can do is the occasional tinfoil ping here and there. Dom's frustration has seemed real the last few days, but that can be the case regardless of his alignment. I am intrigued by LoRab's most recent post about him. Are you able to respond to that, Dom?

not particularly. for many reasons. most important is that the behavior she's describing is actually the result of me feeling antagonized by a player who played in the games i brought to you.

[Dom]

I apologize for that post.

[Quin]

I'll buy you a smaller set of tweezers to keep splitting those hairs, Quin.

That is not a thing that is happening.

[Sloonei]

I'll buy you a smaller set of tweezers to keep splitting those hairs, Quin.

That is not a thing that is happening.

Any thoughts on any things?

[Quin]

I'll buy you a smaller set of tweezers to keep splitting those hairs, Quin.

That is not a thing that is happening.

Any thoughts on any things?

On a strictly personal level, I want to believe that I'm wrong and that Dom's outburst where he said he'd leave the site if he were lynched is reflective of an extremely agitated and desperate townie. But I cannot fathom the possibility. My views remain the same.

[Dom]

That comment had little to do with this game. I am not leaving this site and not because of this game.

[Sloonei]

I come back to this thread and what do I find? Isn't this just charming... Seriously, if I'm the best you guys can come up with, we're in more trouble than I could've imagined...

I've literally read next to nothing that's been posted this Day phase so on the basis of my inability to make an informed decision right now, self preservation will determine my vote.

Emotional manipulation doesn't play well.

I've voted you at the moment for self preservation.

Was this vote cast out of self-preservation or because of Glorfindel's "emotional manipulation"?

Both.

if dom wants to link me to some past scum games of his i'll be happy.

I feel like I have done this at least twice in this game. I have absolutely talked about this, maybe not linked, but talked about it.
I won this game bad
I wont this game bad
I lost this game bad.
I won this game bad, but replaced in.

Those are just recent-ish games.

I had a look at Turf Wars and Arkham and can see some striking similarities between the way you respond to suspicions in those game and the way you've responded in this one. I'll take a look at some town games to see if the trend carries over, but this does not bode well for you. I also have to leave in a couple of hours and, once again, will not be around for the deadline. I am running out of time and my mind is close to being made up on this. I'll just have to wait and hope we are right.

[Sloonei]

What is your confidence level now, LoRab?

[Sloonei]

I took a look at Rot3k and Spirited Away for town Dom. I observe a tendency to dismiss accusations in a similar way, but not as viciously, and it usually comes with a sound justification of the actions he has being accused for. In this game his primary defense has been "I've played poorly." If this is true, I apologize. But I don't think I will be changing my vote.

Good game, everyone.

[LoRab]

i'm 88%.

[Sloonei]

I'd stick myself somewhere in the 80s as well.

[Dom]

And Hillary lost the election with those same odds.

[LoRab]

Different kind of odds.

And if you're civ, I'm sorry.

But you also haven't shown evidence of a civ game where you were falsely accused and showed the same pattern of emotionally driven trapped defense, and the increased paranoia, that you've shown as a tone in the games that you posted where you were bad.

[Dom]

i am attributing the behavior you are sighting to feeling antagonized and not alignment. I think reading World Reborn, Star Wars, and Arkham will show you plenty of what I might call antagonization.

[Quin]

Depending on what time my brother wants me to take him to work, I may not be here for EoD. I'll try my best to get rid of him early.

[LoRab]

i am attributing the behavior you are sighting to feeling antagonized and not alignment. I think reading World Reborn, Star Wars, and Arkham will show you plenty of what I might call antagonization.

The behavior I am remembering is evident in any game in which you were a baddie over the past almost a decade in which we've been playing together. And it is evident not just in those 3, but in all the games you cited earlier.

I don't remember that tone in your civ games.

[Dom]

I would tend to disagree with you.

I'm not bad. I'm exhausted from defending for about 5 days straight. I played a shit civ game and the baddies deserve this win, despite how hard I fought against it.

[LoRab]

I'll ask again--can you link to a civ game in which you have shown this same tone. Or a bad game in which you have not shown this tone.

Or at least mention which games those might be.

[Dom]

Avant Garde 2 - Baddie
Shawshank - serial killer
A civ game would be Teh Syndicate Mafia, but that's utterly unreadable now. Also American Gods
I don't remember how I played in Downton, but I was civ.
I don't remember how I played in Gentleman's Guide, but I was bad.



I was hoping this would be a year of many civ wins for me. I guess not. Guess I'll be known as someone who only wins as bad.

[Quin]

If there's any last minute conversations that anybody wants to have, I'm here for a bit. Otherwise I don't have much left to say.

[Quin]

No I'm not. But I'll be back in 5-10.

[Quin]

ok

[Dom]

pls change ur votes guys.

[Dom]

sloonei, pls

[Dom]

lorab, you voted with me yesterday. please come to your senses and do it again

[Quin]

is there a nail biting emoji out there somewhere because i would very much like to use it

[G-Man]

LITTLE DOLL

Everyone in the gallery could barely stay in their seats. Rapt with anticipation, they took in every question by the prosecution. Dom took the stand but was fumbling in grand fashion.

"You make a lot of assumptions in trying to prove your innocence. How do you expect the jury to jump through all those hoops to believe you?" the prosecutor asked.

Dom gave the man a confused look and babbled something unintelligible. The prosecutor sighed and rephrased his question.

"Are you able to understand why all these assumptions create a path that is difficult for the jury to follow and trust?"

Dom blew a raspberry and giggled as saliva ran down his chin. The prosecutor scowled.

"I will remind the witness that he is under oath, necessitating honest and direct answers to the people's questions."

Dom smiled as he passed gas loud enough for everyone in the courtroom to hear.

"Your honor," the prosecutor bellowed, "the witness is clearly hostile. We're getting nowhere. I move for the jury to render their verdict."

Dom scrunched his face in frustration and growled at both the prosecutor and the judge.

"Movement granted," the judge said. He looked at Dom, "You should have behaved yourself and tried harder."

The scolding struck a chord with Dom. His face melted into a pout and tears welled up in his eyes. He wailed a sharp, piercing cry that skirted the line of cultivating sympathy and annoyance. He flailed his arms and writhed on the floor in anger. All parties present were shocked by his behavior.

But that's what happens when you put a toddler on trial.

-------------------------------------------------

DOM has been lynched. He was SPROG ROCKATANSKY.

It is now Night 11. Role PMs are due by 8:00 pm US Eastern.

[Quin]

[G-Man]

On a side note, I want to make it clear that the content of the lynch post is something I had planned for Sprog's potential lynch for most of the game. It is in no way a swipe at Dom.

[insertnamehere]

well, there's your problem.

[Dom]