GY!BE Mafia [E.N.D.]

[Quin]

I'm afraid I don't follow the second post there.

I think he's just referencing he's been insanified days 4, 5 and 7.

GX

ok

[Dom]

Sig's last post was on day 4.
I mention that I am thinking of voting for him and he shows up within hours.

So im what lurking for days, and screwing up the game, and my chances of winning, by not voting, but decide to show up since you mentioned me? Get real, your either mafia looking for an easy lynch or not thinking.

Screwing up the game by not having been lynched and us not having lynched a baddie yet? How would you be screwing up the game?

You've never seen a case predicated on someone who appears when their name is brought up (I mentioned I'd like more scrutiny on you earlier) suddenly appears? BTSC partners alerting them to the pressure they're now facing? That's really just so absurd to you? You're also not even my top suspect. When insanified, I GTH'd you as bad. I don't know why you seem so 1)outraged and 2)defensive of some basic pressure on you.

Looking over GMAN thing we literally have the same people mislynching and leading the lynches over and over again.

I'm eyeing Epi, Dom, and MM due to his list, but plan to ISO them and see what I see. I had some suspicion of MM, but nothing to lynch on before now though we have almost lynched MM twice, failed both times lynching civs instead and the people who were pushing his wagon were killed by the mafia. I want to try and lynch MM this phase again. Looking back the cases and points made against him are good , but like I said I'll ISO him at some point.

Also I'm not saying it isn't possible, but it is unlikely that both insanfiers are still alive. I think one is faking it.

Also there comes a point where if we have to lynch silenced/insaneified people then that is what we have to do. Especially if the mafia is doing it to their own.

Why are the curses the same every time if both insanifiers aren't alive?
You haven't voted in days, and you come in here pointing fingers-- make a case if you're so outraged. Don't just scream about it.

I think MM is a civ. I am a civ. I think Epi is a civ. You think we're bad because of G-Man's analysis? Why did you leave out BWT/Wilgy? Is he your teammate?

Purposely not voting would be screwing up the game in a fundamental sense and be extremely unfair to the other players and the host. So it would be screwing up, "pointing fingers" that is kinda how you play the game.

Also yes it is really that absurd, that you somehow think I've been active in a scum chat, but not playing or logging in for what five/six days? Keep in mind this would also mean by power has been in limbo and not used if I was mafia, unless your goign to say I logged in sent Pms but then left. Also you provide no reasoning for MM/Epi being a civ, BWT/wilgy hasn't been up for a lynch twice and you throwing in the teammate thing makes little to no sense. I think I nailed the remaining mafia in my post, one of which is you and you're in panic mode. I also think you were hoping I didn't come back so you could get me lynched today. Which you're still attempting to do.


@JJJ I've been skimming over since I went afk, but mainly my reads are based around my previous thoughts, the voting records, and the last phase.

I think you've been busy. I think you've been okay with it because your team has been doing okay. It's possible. I don't know why you are so defensive here. I am simply bringing up the possibility. Why can you not fathom this? This is far from the first time this has been been floated and far from the first time it might be successful. Please take me seriously.

Please read my psot history before you accuse me of not having reasons for my convictions. Then, after that, please feel free to question me.

[Dom]

I think MM is a civ.

Why?

I think Epi is a civ.

Why?

MM
because BWT/Wilgy is likely bad imo and jumped on that train late-- waiting for timmer to move first. People mischaracterized his behavior while insanified.

Epi
I think he has had genuine suspiciouns and solid trains of thought throughout the game. i can understand his positions and think he was ganged up on needlessly. I don't think he is bad for these reasons.

[Dom]

3J-- who is bad?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

3J-- who is bad?

My top three mafia suspects are Wilgy 2.0, Marmot, and LoRab. Gun to my head I'd place Wilgy 2.0 and LoRab as Sleep and Mladic. My top SK suspect is G-Man.

I don't think anyone looks great though short of Quin, so it's a discussion that needs to be ongoing.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think this'd be a good time for another round of GTHs all around actually since I think many people's reads are in flux right now. It'd also be compatible with the insanified people with a little creativity.

There aren't many people around presently, but it's something to keep in mind later. Maybe towards the end of the phase when people are dropping in to vote ahead of the deadline,

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Dom: Nope, not bad.

My top 2 suspects for this round are 3J and MM, which is annoying because MM is insanified and 3J is off the poll.

Epi posting against Christmas is kind of amusing.

LoRab, you expressed doubt about my being the SK last phase due to what you called an "infodump" by trice and that I seemed too obvious. Today you've called me a top suspect that you cannot pursue due to my absence in the poll. What has changed your perspective between the phases?

I already asked about your MM comment, so please answer that too.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

There's also the non-lynch of Day 4 which remains unresolved. There was a reason my mind went straight to balance when it came to judging what happened there. That's a problem still for MM even if he can't really answer to it.

[Epignosis]

To think we give presents on a random day- that's extortion.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Looking over GMAN thing we literally have the same people mislynching and leading the lynches over and over again.

I'm eyeing Epi, Dom, and MM due to his list, but plan to ISO them and see what I see. I had some suspicion of MM, but nothing to lynch on before now though we have almost lynched MM twice, failed both times lynching civs instead and the people who were pushing his wagon were killed by the mafia. I want to try and lynch MM this phase again. Looking back the cases and points made against him are good , but like I said I'll ISO him at some point.

Also I'm not saying it isn't possible, but it is unlikely that both insanfiers are still alive. I think one is faking it.

Also there comes a point where if we have to lynch silenced/insaneified people then that is what we have to do. Especially if the mafia is doing it to their own.

Which of the insanified players do you think is more likely to be faking it? Based on what do you suggest an insanifier has likely died by now?

[Quin]

Put a vote on G-Man. I dislike his entrance and I think that MP had SK potential, based on his PoE stunt.

[Dom]

Quin, why do you think Trice thought JJJ as the SK?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

A point about the trice controversy that I'm not sure has been adequately addressed:

Those who think I'm the SK and trice exposed me -- do you assert that trice wasn't genuinely trying as hard as he could to get me lynched?

[Epignosis]

I mean who gives a fuck about Christmas?

[LoRab]

3J-- who is bad?

My top three mafia suspects are Wilgy 2.0, Marmot, and LoRab. Gun to my head I'd place Wilgy 2.0 and LoRab as Sleep and Mladic. My top SK suspect is G-Man.

I don't think anyone looks great though short of Quin, so it's a discussion that needs to be ongoing.

I am not bad. So, I know you're wrong about me. Any reason in particular you think I'm mafia?

@Dom: Nope, not bad.

My top 2 suspects for this round are 3J and MM, which is annoying because MM is insanified and 3J is off the poll.

Epi posting against Christmas is kind of amusing.

LoRab, you expressed doubt about my being the SK last phase due to what you called an "infodump" by trice and that I seemed too obvious. Today you've called me a top suspect that you cannot pursue due to my absence in the poll. What has changed your perspective between the phases?

I already asked about your MM comment, so please answer that too.

Sorry, I was out and about all day. MM, I don't like lynching/voting for people who are incapacitated, unless I can help it. I realize there comes a time at which it can't be avoided--I don't think we are at that point yet. Also, my suspicion of MM isn't so strong that I couldn't be swayed by a defense, so I want to give MM that chance. It's part of my personal mafia ethics by which I go about games.

As for my suspicion of you, your reaction to surviving the last lynch raised my eyebrow a great deal and made me wonder. I was hoping to be able to discuss you more this lynch, as I was (and am) wondering if I was wrong about you.

As I don't have all that many reads on folks, top suspects is a relative concept. The 2 of you, though, were the ones I most wanted to hear from and discuss--and neither of you are a real option (one of you not at all, one not a real option for me) this lynch.

I mean who gives a fuck about Christmas?

It's a great day for movies and Chinese food. Although this year, I'll be in Israel, where it's just a day like every other day. (Didn't want you to feel left out of conversation, so felt the need to respond)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am not bad. So, I know you're wrong about me. Any reason in particular you think I'm mafia?

Old suspicions from previous stages of the game linger. Currently though I just found your comment about MM and I suspicious at face value. I know I'm not an option today, but I don't see why MM being insanified would prevent you from pursuing that lynch today if you truly believe in it.

You said you don't think we're at a point yet where it's necessary to lynch people who are somehow incapacitated. When do you think we are officially at that point?

As for my suspicion of you, your reaction to surviving the last lynch raised my eyebrow a great deal and made me wonder. I was hoping to be able to discuss you more this lynch, as I was (and am) wondering if I was wrong about you.

I'm here to discuss it now even if I am not in the poll. What about my reaction concerns you so?

[Dom]

Jay - why aren't you on the poll?

[G-Man]

Doing the sheeple thing and voting Jimmy. Epi's case is intriguing but speculative. Sometimes you have to go with speculative in order to break a game your way. Jimmy's votes don't look good or bad, which gives me pause, but I also haven't had enough proper time to dig through them all to look for tinfoil patterns. I can see them as the intentional work of a baddie or the unintentional work of a civvie but not the intentional work of a civvie.

I know you just got here, but this post reeks of trying too hard to say very little.

First, I don't really have a "case" against 3J. Somebody who knows who the serial killer is called 3J the serial killer. That's about all there is to that.

Second, if 3J is the serial killer, how is looking at his votes is a useful way to spend your time? If you've read my "case," then your comment about 3J's votes doesn't make sense.

Third, that last sentence...

During the time when I was on notice to join the game, I peeked at the last page or two of discussion before the lynch post. I also skimmed during my first day in the game due to time constraints. What stood out to me the most was a lot of you going apeshit about serial killers and trying to convince people to lynch Jimmy because of Trice. 'Case' is lazy word choice on my part but your intensity and conviction won me over.

I think what I said about Jimmy's votes made perfect sense. Technicolor analysis doesn't work for serial killers unless you spot someone trying to be blendy the whole game. Jimmy's vote record looks pretty good in the way a baddie might try to time and place their votes or the way a civvie unintentionally places their votes. But Jimmy's votes also don't have the flavor of teammate behavior when you run through them. That's why he ranks so high. Technicolors help me hunt for teammate behavior and coordination in the votes. Kind of like why your votes look like crap. Few if anyone has stuck up for you since I asked for input and context.

In a vacuum, your votes suck. I can read lots of baddie and teammate behavior in them but that's just one piece of the puzzle. Unfortunately, it's the only piece of the puzzle I've had time to digest so far.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay - why aren't you on the poll?

Seemingly 'We Drift Like Worried Fire' didn't want me there.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

G-Man, could you point to specific vote(s) from Epignosis you didn't like and vote(s) from me you did like and explain what circumstances of those votes led you to your conclusions?

[G-Man]

G-Man, could you point to specific vote(s) from Epignosis you didn't like and vote(s) from me you did like and explain what circumstances of those votes led you to your conclusions?

Definitely will write it up for you tomorrow. I have to hit the sack right now. When I look at the votes, basically I try to read through each player's votes as if they were bad. Those whose vote histories are easier to read through as bad end up lower on my list. The key is that I'm looking for possible teammate behavior. The tinfoil factor can run high at times but I've come to put less faith in tinfoil-heavy reads.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I've decided I like sig's return to the game today. He showed up, he took a look at the votes after having seen them compiled by G-Man, and made some judgments. He didn't force himself to catch up with every detail, and I don't think he appeared opportunistic. He worked with recent content and provided a fair effort to involve himself in the continuing dialogue in a productive way. He wasn't afraid to stab his finger into the chest of Epignosis or Dom, and he wasn't afraid of promoting a lynch against an insanified player.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Question for Dom:

Sig's last post was on day 4.
I mention that I am thinking of voting for him and he shows up within hours.

Suspicion of sig was voiced before this phase during sig's period away from the game, and he didn't conveniently appear at those times. You made sig a minor emphasis during your own insanified period, Dom. I'd assert your comment here is more opportunistic than sig's appearance is convenient.

[Dom]

Jay do you think his return is a bit oddly timed?

[LoRab]

I am not bad. So, I know you're wrong about me. Any reason in particular you think I'm mafia?

Old suspicions from previous stages of the game linger. Currently though I just found your comment about MM and I suspicious at face value. I know I'm not an option today, but I don't see why MM being insanified would prevent you from pursuing that lynch today if you truly believe in it.

You said you don't think we're at a point yet where it's necessary to lynch people who are somehow incapacitated. When do you think we are officially at that point?

As for my suspicion of you, your reaction to surviving the last lynch raised my eyebrow a great deal and made me wonder. I was hoping to be able to discuss you more this lynch, as I was (and am) wondering if I was wrong about you.

I'm here to discuss it now even if I am not in the poll. What about my reaction concerns you so?

We are officially at that point if the numbers are such that it is impossible to be wrong. I only vote for people who are incapacitated when I am fairly certain about them. It's one of the rules I made for myself a very long time ago. I'm not going to change it now. It would be breaking my own, personal ethics code of how I play to vote for a player in that situation (without extenuating circumstances). There are no extenuating circumstances here. I believe that I am suspicious of him--but I'm not certain of that fact by any stretch of the imagination. And he's hardly in a position to be able to discuss that. Therefore, I will not vote for MM this round.

As for your reaction, it felt very flippant, and not in a way that I would expect from a civ who just survived a lynch.

[Dom]

Question for Dom:

Sig's last post was on day 4.
I mention that I am thinking of voting for him and he shows up within hours.

Suspicion of sig was voiced before this phase during sig's period away from the game, and he didn't conveniently appear at those times. You made sig a minor emphasis during your own insanified period, Dom. I'd assert your comment here is more opportunistic than sig's appearance is convenient.

And that's an overstated point. I GTH'd him bad in a code. I didn't make any further post on him like that on Day 5 (I think it was day 5).

I do think that's convenient. And i find it overly defensive that he won't acknowledge that convenient returns to a game can be considered suspicious.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also for Dom:

Question for the masses.

I make arbitrary and nonsensical votes, and nobody gives a shit.

I catch something I find suspicious and vote based on that, and people do give a shit.

For those of you whose read of me matches up with these statements, why is it so? I don't understand.

When you find things suspicious for nonsensical reasons like you did today it's a bad look.

MM's suspicion of timmer/Boomslang on Day 1 was timing based -- one player was absent for a time until his name was spoken and he reappeared. MM found this suspicious, and in this post you call that suspicion "nonsensical".

Now, you're calling sig suspicious because he reappeared after a period of absence soon after you mentioned the possibility of voting for him.

What is the fundamental difference between your suspicion of sig and MM's suspicion of timmer in these two scenarios?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

EBWOP to fix the quotes...

Also for Dom:

Question for the masses.

I make arbitrary and nonsensical votes, and nobody gives a shit.

I catch something I find suspicious and vote based on that, and people do give a shit.

For those of you whose read of me matches up with these statements, why is it so? I don't understand.

When you find things suspicious for nonsensical reasons like you did today it's a bad look.

MM's suspicion of timmer/Boomslang on Day 1 was timing based -- one player was absent for a time until his name was spoken and he reappeared. MM found this suspicious, and in this post you call that suspicion "nonsensical".

Now, you're calling sig suspicious because he reappeared after a period of absence soon after you mentioned the possibility of voting for him.

What is the fundamental difference between your suspicion of sig and MM's suspicion of timmer in these two scenarios?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay do you think his return is a bit oddly timed?

No. I think he showed up when he showed up. What kind of timing wouldn't have been odd?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

As for your reaction, it felt very flippant, and not in a way that I would expect from a civ who just survived a lynch.

Flippant is a good word for it. It's nice to be alive, but I do fear my continued survival is only going to hinder the civilian cause. So long as I'm here I'm a tinfoil magnet thanks in no small part to trice, and that's both a distraction and a delay in people's abilities to SK hunt other people. I've tried to emphasize the importance of that but not many people seem to have taken my advice.

Regardless of my irritation, I'm doing my best to make productive use of my added time.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

We are officially at that point if the numbers are such that it is impossible to be wrong. I only vote for people who are incapacitated when I am fairly certain about them. It's one of the rules I made for myself a very long time ago. I'm not going to change it now. It would be breaking my own, personal ethics code of how I play to vote for a player in that situation (without extenuating circumstances). There are no extenuating circumstances here. I believe that I am suspicious of him--but I'm not certain of that fact by any stretch of the imagination. And he's hardly in a position to be able to discuss that. Therefore, I will not vote for MM this round.

With the poll and MM as they are right now, where are you leaning for your Day 7 vote?

[Dom]

EBWOP to fix the quotes...

Also for Dom:

Question for the masses.

I make arbitrary and nonsensical votes, and nobody gives a shit.

I catch something I find suspicious and vote based on that, and people do give a shit.

For those of you whose read of me matches up with these statements, why is it so? I don't understand.

When you find things suspicious for nonsensical reasons like you did today it's a bad look.

MM's suspicion of timmer/Boomslang on Day 1 was timing based -- one player was absent for a time until his name was spoken and he reappeared. MM found this suspicious, and in this post you call that suspicion "nonsensical".

Now, you're calling sig suspicious because he reappeared after a period of absence soon after you mentioned the possibility of voting for him.

What is the fundamental difference between your suspicion of sig and MM's suspicion of timmer in these two scenarios?

No. You are very much misrepresenting that situation.
I criticized MM for voting Boomslang instead of timmer in that instance. I called his logic backwards and that if he thinks timmer is bad because of his return, then he should vote for timmer-- not for his suspected teammate.

But that's a detail you failed to mention here.

Jay do you think his return is a bit oddly timed?

No. I think he showed up when he showed up. What kind of timing wouldn't have been odd?

one where I didn't mention I suspected him less than two hours before.

[Dom]

I also do not like how this discussion has been made about sig.

I posted earlier that WilgyTeeth was my biggest suspect. I don't see why the focus on him has waned.

[Dom]

The only reason why I haven't voted Wilgy yet is because I want to give him a fair footing in this game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

No. You are very much misrepresenting that situation.
I criticized MM for voting Boomslang instead of timmer in that instance. I called his logic backwards and that if he thinks timmer is bad because of his return, then he should vote for timmer-- not for his suspected teammate.

But that's a detail you failed to mention here.

You didn't understand his suspicion of timmer. You said that:

I still don't really understand why you suspect Timmer tbh

I agree that Marmot's initial vote for Boomslang was logically backwards given his stated timing beef. Independent of that Boomslang vote though was his suspicion of timmer -- that's what I'm talking about here. What made Marmot's suspicion of timmer hard to understand, and how does that compare with your current suspicion of sig?

one where I didn't mention I suspected him less than two hours before.

Two hours is a long time. You voiced suspicion of him well earlier than that too. Why did it matter today?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I also do not like how this discussion has been made about sig.

I posted earlier that WilgyTeeth was my biggest suspect. I don't see why the focus on him has waned.

My current discussion is not about sig, it is about you. The current flow of the dialogue does not change the tally, sig has no votes. What is your concern with this?

[LoRab]

As for your reaction, it felt very flippant, and not in a way that I would expect from a civ who just survived a lynch.

Flippant is a good word for it. It's nice to be alive, but I do fear my continued survival is only going to hinder the civilian cause. So long as I'm here I'm a tinfoil magnet thanks in no small part to trice, and that's both a distraction and a delay in people's abilities to SK hunt other people. I've tried to emphasize the importance of that but not many people seem to have taken my advice.

Regardless of my irritation, I'm doing my best to make productive use of my added time.

Also, you credit We Drift Like Worried Fire with taking you off the poll. Which is fine. But you, MM, and I are the only 3 that didn't vote for you in the last lynch. You have mentioned suspicion of both MM and me, and yet Drift has no secret attached to it which would explain surviving the lynch.

Do you think that someone who voted for you changed their mind based on your having survived the lynch? Because that seems unlikely.

We are officially at that point if the numbers are such that it is impossible to be wrong. I only vote for people who are incapacitated when I am fairly certain about them. It's one of the rules I made for myself a very long time ago. I'm not going to change it now. It would be breaking my own, personal ethics code of how I play to vote for a player in that situation (without extenuating circumstances). There are no extenuating circumstances here. I believe that I am suspicious of him--but I'm not certain of that fact by any stretch of the imagination. And he's hardly in a position to be able to discuss that. Therefore, I will not vote for MM this round.

With the poll and MM as they are right now, where are you leaning for your Day 7 vote?

That is a great question, for which I wish I had an answer. GMan and Sig are the 2 that I'm trying to look at. I don't feel entirely confident about GMan's entry into the game and concern with what people thought of him (nor am I sure that I buy that he didn't know for whom he was subbing in, while he was reading back a few pages, and considering if he was going to sub in). Sig, I don't know that well, so it's hard to say, but players that come and go often make me feel squirrelly. I plan to read posts from both tomorrow.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also, you credit We Drift Like Worried Fire with taking you off the poll. Which is fine. But you, MM, and I are the only 3 that didn't vote for you in the last lynch. You have mentioned suspicion of both MM and me, and yet Drift has no secret attached to it which would explain surviving the lynch.

Do you think that someone who voted for you changed their mind based on your having survived the lynch? Because that seems unlikely.

All we can do in this discussion is speculate. I can't imagine why either the SK or the mafia would want to remove me from the poll since I was likely to be lynched today otherwise. Doing so would only expose them to a lynch they'd have otherwise avoided to no public gain of their own. So that means the reason I am not in the poll is civilian in origin and there's a civilian role with the exact power in question.

[LoRab]

Also, you credit We Drift Like Worried Fire with taking you off the poll. Which is fine. But you, MM, and I are the only 3 that didn't vote for you in the last lynch. You have mentioned suspicion of both MM and me, and yet Drift has no secret attached to it which would explain surviving the lynch.

Do you think that someone who voted for you changed their mind based on your having survived the lynch? Because that seems unlikely.

All we can do in this discussion is speculate. I can't imagine why either the SK or the mafia would want to remove me from the poll since I was likely to be lynched today otherwise. Doing so would only expose them to a lynch they'd have otherwise avoided to no public gain of their own. So that means the reason I am not in the poll is civilian in origin and there's a civilian role with the exact power in question.

You realize that is far fetched, though? I mean, if another player posted that, in the same situation, would you just take it at face value, or would you be raising an eyebrow?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You realize that is far fetched, though? I mean, if another player posted that, in the same situation, would you just take it at face value, or would you be raising an eyebrow?

I'm sure I'd ask questions. I don't fault you for that. From the perspective of anyone who is not me, I think these are the options to choose between:

1. The civilian role which pulls a player from the poll is responsible for me being pulled from the poll.

2. I pulled myself from the poll somehow.

If you believe #2 is our reality, then what is the full description of the role you believe I have? If you believe something else happened, what is that?

[Dom]

No. You are very much misrepresenting that situation.
I criticized MM for voting Boomslang instead of timmer in that instance. I called his logic backwards and that if he thinks timmer is bad because of his return, then he should vote for timmer-- not for his suspected teammate.

But that's a detail you failed to mention here.

You didn't understand his suspicion of timmer. You said that:

I still don't really understand why you suspect Timmer tbh

I agree that Marmot's initial vote for Boomslang was logically backwards given his stated timing beef. Independent of that Boomslang vote though was his suspicion of timmer -- that's what I'm talking about here. What made Marmot's suspicion of timmer hard to understand, and how does that compare with your current suspicion of sig?

one where I didn't mention I suspected him less than two hours before.

Two hours is a long time. You voiced suspicion of him well earlier than that too. Why did it matter today?

TBH it's that I skimmed the thread at that point and just wanted a summary. Too many posts. So I asked for one. I have since determined that I think MM is civ and I no longer care about his reasons for his old Timmer suspicion.
Comments on it not making sense are attributed to the backwards nature of the suspicion. If you continue reading (this is the third time I have told you to actually go back and find the facts on this rather than presenting half of them), you'll see that I even apologize to him for not realizing he had corrected himself.
Any reason why you leave out key details here?

I also do not like how this discussion has been made about sig.

I posted earlier that WilgyTeeth was my biggest suspect. I don't see why the focus on him has waned.

My current discussion is not about sig, it is about you. The current flow of the dialogue does not change the tally, sig has no votes. What is your concern with this?

My concern is my attention is away from Wilgy-- my biggest suspect other than you.

Wilgy-- where are you in your catch up/what are you doing to catch up? What can I do to help you understand the accusations levied against you? I want you to have a shot at defending yourself, but I also think you are very likely a baddie

[Quin]

No. You are very much misrepresenting that situation.
I criticized MM for voting Boomslang instead of timmer in that instance. I called his logic backwards and that if he thinks timmer is bad because of his return, then he should vote for timmer-- not for his suspected teammate.

But that's a detail you failed to mention here.

You didn't understand his suspicion of timmer. You said that:

I still don't really understand why you suspect Timmer tbh

I agree that Marmot's initial vote for Boomslang was logically backwards given his stated timing beef. Independent of that Boomslang vote though was his suspicion of timmer -- that's what I'm talking about here. What made Marmot's suspicion of timmer hard to understand, and how does that compare with your current suspicion of sig?

one where I didn't mention I suspected him less than two hours before.

Two hours is a long time. You voiced suspicion of him well earlier than that too. Why did it matter today?

TBH it's that I skimmed the thread at that point and just wanted a summary. Too many posts. So I asked for one. I have since determined that I think MM is civ and I no longer care about his reasons for his old Timmer suspicion.
Comments on it not making sense are attributed to the backwards nature of the suspicion. If you continue reading (this is the third time I have told you to actually go back and find the facts on this rather than presenting half of them), you'll see that I even apologize to him for not realizing he had corrected himself.
Any reason why you leave out key details here?

I also do not like how this discussion has been made about sig.

I posted earlier that WilgyTeeth was my biggest suspect. I don't see why the focus on him has waned.

My current discussion is not about sig, it is about you. The current flow of the dialogue does not change the tally, sig has no votes. What is your concern with this?

My concern is my attention is away from Wilgy-- my biggest suspect other than you.

Wilgy-- where are you in your catch up/what are you doing to catch up? What can I do to help you understand the accusations levied against you? I want you to have a shot at defending yourself, but I also think you are very likely a baddie

This reeks. Wilgy can't defend himself. He's a replacement.

[Quin]

Quin, why do you think Trice thought JJJ as the SK?

Can you rephrase this?

[Dom]

Quin, why do you think Trice thought JJJ as the SK?

Can you rephrase this?

Why do you think Trice thought JJJ ist he SK?

No. You are very much misrepresenting that situation.
I criticized MM for voting Boomslang instead of timmer in that instance. I called his logic backwards and that if he thinks timmer is bad because of his return, then he should vote for timmer-- not for his suspected teammate.

But that's a detail you failed to mention here.

You didn't understand his suspicion of timmer. You said that:

I still don't really understand why you suspect Timmer tbh

I agree that Marmot's initial vote for Boomslang was logically backwards given his stated timing beef. Independent of that Boomslang vote though was his suspicion of timmer -- that's what I'm talking about here. What made Marmot's suspicion of timmer hard to understand, and how does that compare with your current suspicion of sig?

one where I didn't mention I suspected him less than two hours before.

Two hours is a long time. You voiced suspicion of him well earlier than that too. Why did it matter today?

TBH it's that I skimmed the thread at that point and just wanted a summary. Too many posts. So I asked for one. I have since determined that I think MM is civ and I no longer care about his reasons for his old Timmer suspicion.
Comments on it not making sense are attributed to the backwards nature of the suspicion. If you continue reading (this is the third time I have told you to actually go back and find the facts on this rather than presenting half of them), you'll see that I even apologize to him for not realizing he had corrected himself.
Any reason why you leave out key details here?

I also do not like how this discussion has been made about sig.

I posted earlier that WilgyTeeth was my biggest suspect. I don't see why the focus on him has waned.

My current discussion is not about sig, it is about you. The current flow of the dialogue does not change the tally, sig has no votes. What is your concern with this?

My concern is my attention is away from Wilgy-- my biggest suspect other than you.

Wilgy-- where are you in your catch up/what are you doing to catch up? What can I do to help you understand the accusations levied against you? I want you to have a shot at defending yourself, but I also think you are very likely a baddie

This reeks. Wilgy can't defend himself. He's a replacement.

Wilgy has said he will catch up and post his thoughts. I understand he might not read detailed, but I'm awaiting those thoughts before I vote for him. Perhaps that will convince me to not vote for him.

[G-Man]

Drafting some more responses and brief vote readings as I have time here and there this morning. Hoping to post most of it at lunch.

[Marmot]

I'd like to know what others think of Scotty right now. Each time I look at the player list his name stands out loudly to me.

He needs to be re-assessed, because I'm afraid I had something with him before and he's flying under the radar.

[Dom]

but scotty is dead.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

TBH it's that I skimmed the thread at that point and just wanted a summary. Too many posts. So I asked for one. I have since determined that I think MM is civ and I no longer care about his reasons for his old Timmer suspicion.
Comments on it not making sense are attributed to the backwards nature of the suspicion. If you continue reading (this is the third time I have told you to actually go back and find the facts on this rather than presenting half of them), you'll see that I even apologize to him for not realizing he had corrected himself.
Any reason why you leave out key details here?

You apologized in the same post I just brought up. You're portraying this like it was a natural progression from "MM's suspicion is backwards" to "MM suspects timmer now" to "Nevermind, I apologize". You didn't forgive his timmer suspicion when you apologized, it's literally the same moment you asked him to expand on it.

If I believe there might be an inconsistency in the way you treat two people in this game under similar circumstances, that raises questions about your sincerity. I'm going to explore that scenario as much as I feel is necessary to determine whether your mindset is civilian-oriented.

Why do you keep asserting I'm leaving out details? What is the implication?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nobody has addressed this:

A point about the trice controversy that I'm not sure has been adequately addressed:

Those who think I'm the SK and trice exposed me -- do you assert that trice wasn't genuinely trying as hard as he could to get me lynched?

If I'm the SK, trice didn't merely out me. He tried his best to lynch me too, otherwise unprovoked and unpressured. Explain that to me. I think there's a readily visible motive for him to erroneously paint me as the SK*, but there is not a readily visible motive for him to try to lead the lynch of the player upon whom one of his win conditions rests. If you accept that reality, that means you accept that trice didn't care about winning the game. You accept that trice screwed his potential teammate over to no gain of his own.

*even without having been recruited, he can still play in a way that anticipates recruitment. By screaming and yelling about the SK he is by default revealing himself to the true SK that it's a role he is placing inordinate focus on -- that serves as a signal and can facilitate the recruitment. By focusing that screaming and yelling on someone who is not the SK (me), he ensures that when his role is publicly revealed, he doesn't expose both himself and his teammate. Any suspicions originating from that reveal are directed upon me and my false lynch safeguards them both.

So, everyone who has defaulted to the notion that I am the SK because trice said so -- it is your responsibility to answer this. Off-hand I can name: Epignosis and Dom. Marmot and LoRab too, though their suspicion has been less SK-focused. Those who are cursed I understand you can't answer now. Do it later.

[G-Man]

I don't like G-Man questioning where he stood when he subbed in in terms of MP's reputation. Civ-minded folk don't care about that.

Does that make you suspect me more as mafia or a serial killer? Or does it just give you general baddie vibes? Did you determine that MP had potential SK vibes before or after my arrival? You reference his "POE stunt." Do you recall what day he did that on? If so, I can go back and take a look at it.

I realize it was an odd question ask (what people felt about the player I subbed in for) but I was curious to know if I had room to breathe at first or if I would have to launch into razzle-dazzle-don't-lynch-me mode right out of the gate. Mental preparation, you know?

(nor am I sure that I buy that he didn't know for whom he was subbing in, while he was reading back a few pages, and considering if he was going to sub in).

It's true. The Day 5 lynch post dropped at 11:43 pm. I discovered I subbed in for MP but hadn't gotten my role card yet. I PM'd our host for the down-low and went to bed. He sent me the role card a few minutes later but I was already in bed.


And now for those vote reads...