Pokemon Mafia [ENDGAME]

[G-Man]

@Gman

I don't see it.

I voted just after posting this:

I like lynch drama.

I like lynching baddies.

I'd be on baddies like white on rice if I knew who the mafia were.

Unfortunately, work is insane and I haven't had time to digest the thread in full. When in doubt, have fun!

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I like Boo

Not sure if he is good or bad, but I like him. He plays the way I do.

[G-Man]

I like Boo

Not sure if he is good or bad, but I like him. He plays the way I do.

Impressed by him am I as well.

[speedchuck]

I missed a good chunk of yesterday's end of day. Can I get a brief on what the Timmer case was? I'm assuming there wasn't one on Jack.

[nutella]

I personally am not particularly impressed with Boo right now. He's twisting everything into an interpretation that fits his preconceived notion that I must be bad, and he keeps twisting beyond recognition what I have said about what I think baddie motives would do, when I have clearly explained why everything I have done makes total sense with civ motives. I was going to give my votes to Speed or LC anyway since I have been getting strong civ vibes from them; they just decided to make it into some official thing that I'm benefitting from by getting two evo points tonight. I'm happy to agree to that, because I think my role could be a pretty helpful one when it evolves. I have made no explicit promises to stay in their exchange for more than two nights, but I might if I continue to trust them. Boo has been willfully misinterpreting everything I have said on this topic.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I personally am not particularly impressed with Boo right now. He's twisting everything into an interpretation that fits his preconceived notion that I must be bad, and he keeps twisting beyond recognition what I have said about what I think baddie motives would do, when I have clearly explained why everything I have done makes total sense with civ motives. I was going to give my votes to Speed or LC anyway since I have been getting strong civ vibes from them; they just decided to make it into some official thing that I'm benefitting from by getting two evo points tonight. I'm happy to agree to that, because I think my role could be a pretty helpful one when it evolves. I have made no explicit promises to stay in their exchange for more than two nights, but I might if I continue to trust them. Boo has been willfully misinterpreting everything I have said on this topic.

That is so me.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I missed a good chunk of yesterday's end of day. Can I get a brief on what the Timmer case was? I'm assuming there wasn't one on Jack.

Made a weird post sort of criticizing people who asked for votes then vanished. Seems to be putting minimal effort. Probably legit busy irl but the combination above made me sus him.

Well thats why I voted not sure about others. I feel there were people riding on my bandwagon for questionable reasons.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@DDL

What people?

[Jackofhearts2005]

To clarify, by "people" you mean Fred and Tony?

Tony was town. Are you saying Fred's vote was questionable?

[boo]

I personally am not particularly impressed with Boo right now. He's twisting everything into an interpretation that fits his preconceived notion that I must be bad, and he keeps twisting beyond recognition what I have said about what I think baddie motives would do, when I have clearly explained why everything I have done makes total sense with civ motives. I was going to give my votes to Speed or LC anyway since I have been getting strong civ vibes from them; they just decided to make it into some official thing that I'm benefitting from by getting two evo points tonight. I'm happy to agree to that, because I think my role could be a pretty helpful one when it evolves. I have made no explicit promises to stay in their exchange for more than two nights, but I might if I continue to trust them. Boo has been willfully misinterpreting everything I have said on this topic.

No, I've quoted you contradicting yourself multiple times. I haven't twisted anything you have said, you have said things and then taken actions that are in direct contradiction to what anyone reading what you have said should rationally expect.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

To clarify, by "people" you mean Fred and Tony?

Tony was town. Are you saying Fred's vote was questionable?

I'm just stating a feeling I have in the back of my head. I need to actually look at the votes to elaborate further than that.

[nutella]

I personally am not particularly impressed with Boo right now. He's twisting everything into an interpretation that fits his preconceived notion that I must be bad, and he keeps twisting beyond recognition what I have said about what I think baddie motives would do, when I have clearly explained why everything I have done makes total sense with civ motives. I was going to give my votes to Speed or LC anyway since I have been getting strong civ vibes from them; they just decided to make it into some official thing that I'm benefitting from by getting two evo points tonight. I'm happy to agree to that, because I think my role could be a pretty helpful one when it evolves. I have made no explicit promises to stay in their exchange for more than two nights, but I might if I continue to trust them. Boo has been willfully misinterpreting everything I have said on this topic.

No, I've quoted you contradicting yourself multiple times. I haven't twisted anything you have said, you have said things and then taken actions that are in direct contradiction to what anyone reading what you have said should rationally expect.

...No, that's just simply not true.

[boo]

I personally am not particularly impressed with Boo right now. He's twisting everything into an interpretation that fits his preconceived notion that I must be bad, and he keeps twisting beyond recognition what I have said about what I think baddie motives would do, when I have clearly explained why everything I have done makes total sense with civ motives. I was going to give my votes to Speed or LC anyway since I have been getting strong civ vibes from them; they just decided to make it into some official thing that I'm benefitting from by getting two evo points tonight. I'm happy to agree to that, because I think my role could be a pretty helpful one when it evolves. I have made no explicit promises to stay in their exchange for more than two nights, but I might if I continue to trust them. Boo has been willfully misinterpreting everything I have said on this topic.

No, I've quoted you contradicting yourself multiple times. I haven't twisted anything you have said, you have said things and then taken actions that are in direct contradiction to what anyone reading what you have said should rationally expect.

...No, that's just simply not true.

Prove it.

[speedchuck]

I personally am not particularly impressed with Boo right now. He's twisting everything into an interpretation that fits his preconceived notion that I must be bad, and he keeps twisting beyond recognition what I have said about what I think baddie motives would do, when I have clearly explained why everything I have done makes total sense with civ motives. I was going to give my votes to Speed or LC anyway since I have been getting strong civ vibes from them; they just decided to make it into some official thing that I'm benefitting from by getting two evo points tonight. I'm happy to agree to that, because I think my role could be a pretty helpful one when it evolves. I have made no explicit promises to stay in their exchange for more than two nights, but I might if I continue to trust them. Boo has been willfully misinterpreting everything I have said on this topic.

No, I've quoted you contradicting yourself multiple times. I haven't twisted anything you have said, you have said things and then taken actions that are in direct contradiction to what anyone reading what you have said should rationally expect.

...No, that's just simply not true.

Prove it.

Burden of proof is on the accuser. Which is you.

[DFaraday]

Shit. I was busy shopping.

I was hankering on voting DF or Timmer. Womp womp.

Why me?

[boo]

I personally am not particularly impressed with Boo right now. He's twisting everything into an interpretation that fits his preconceived notion that I must be bad, and he keeps twisting beyond recognition what I have said about what I think baddie motives would do, when I have clearly explained why everything I have done makes total sense with civ motives. I was going to give my votes to Speed or LC anyway since I have been getting strong civ vibes from them; they just decided to make it into some official thing that I'm benefitting from by getting two evo points tonight. I'm happy to agree to that, because I think my role could be a pretty helpful one when it evolves. I have made no explicit promises to stay in their exchange for more than two nights, but I might if I continue to trust them. Boo has been willfully misinterpreting everything I have said on this topic.

No, I've quoted you contradicting yourself multiple times. I haven't twisted anything you have said, you have said things and then taken actions that are in direct contradiction to what anyone reading what you have said should rationally expect.

...No, that's just simply not true.

Prove it.

Burden of proof is on the accuser. Which is you.

a) I have.
b) she's saying it simply isn't true. She can't prove it, because it is. She hasn't made any effort to prove that, instead her responses have been to shift her stances more and more, becoming more and more contradictory.
c) this isn't a common law court. There is no required burden of proof on anyone.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

This argument has turned stupid fast.

If neither of you want to prove anything, it is over.

[nutella]

Does anyone agree with boo? If so, please explain to me how planning to vote for two different people the next two nights is the same as voting for the same person two nights in a row.

[nutella]

Boo, I have already explained why I have not been contradictory. You are reading things into my comment about double targeting which aren't there.

[nutella]

I like starting at "everyone is innocent until proven guilty"as opposed to the "everyone is guilty until proven innocent" that many others view

In general, I start with the former as well. It's just that in this case, with Boo having asked about repeat targeting for evo votes, I think it is more likely that he is bad and was asking because he wants to evolve a teammate. It makes less sense for a civilian to want to repeat target evo votes, at least at the beginning of the game when we're not sure who's good -- it's better to spread them around among the people we think we trust.

Here's the post boo is taking all of these assumptions from. "Spreading votes around among the people we think we trust" is exactly what I am doing for the next few nights. I am not piling votes on one player, because for one thing -- bear with me here as this might be hard for you to understand -- it's not allowed. If it were allowed, I suspect only baddies would do it; I don't trust anyone enough at this point to give them evo points two nights in a row. And as I have said multiple times, I don't know whether LC and Speed intended for the pact to last longer, but I personally have not committed to it for more than two nights, so if I end up targeting one of them a second time after that it would be because I strongly trusted them.

[nutella]

Anyway, I'm probably going to die anyway since it's public knowledge that I'm getting at least two evo votes

[boo]

I like starting at "everyone is innocent until proven guilty"as opposed to the "everyone is guilty until proven innocent" that many others view

In general, I start with the former as well. It's just that in this case, with Boo having asked about repeat targeting for evo votes, I think it is more likely that he is bad and was asking because he wants to evolve a teammate. It makes less sense for a civilian to want to repeat target evo votes, at least at the beginning of the game when we're not sure who's good -- it's better to spread them around among the people we think we trust.

Here's the post boo is taking all of these assumptions from. "Spreading votes around among the people we think we trust" is exactly what I am doing for the next few nights. I am not piling votes on one player, because for one thing -- bear with me here as this might be hard for you to understand -- it's not allowed. If it were allowed, I suspect only baddies would do it; I don't trust anyone enough at this point to give them evo points two nights in a row. And as I have said multiple times, I don't know whether LC and Speed intended for the pact to last longer, but I personally have not committed to it for more than two nights, so if I end up targeting one of them a second time after that it would be because I strongly trusted them.

Votes are being spread around, but you're probably going to die because votes aren't being spread around.

Wut?

[DrWilgy]

I agree with you Hazlenut, and burden of proof does fall on the accuser.

Hazelnut what do you think about me right now?

Shit. I was busy shopping.

I was hankering on voting DF or Timmer. Womp womp.

Why me?

Your vote was lame. Timmer's was as well. Random voting is a plague.

[DrWilgy]

I like Boo

Not sure if he is good or bad, but I like him. He plays the way I do.

Impressed by him am I as well.

To both of you, why and how?

[sprityo]

Anyway, I'm probably going to die anyway since it's public knowledge that I'm getting at least two evo votes

Sounds like a pity party, sorry Nutella.

They way you're going about dying is misleading in its own light. I mean you're saying that you're FOR SURE, 100% getting two evo points. If that's not a grab for attention, then I don't know what is. You're placing yourself on the very precarious town pedestal where if you don't die you become supa-town or highly suspicious mafia. But like you can't back your claims up with anything until you actually evolve. We don't have a way to confirm how many evo points you actually got. Or at least I assume?

What I'm getting at is stop doing that, and focus on solving the game instead of where YOU sit in it.

In reference to your suspicions however

[quote=nutella post_id=363207 time=<a href="tel:1498585942">1498585942</a> user_id=262]
As I see it, (since I didn't vote for one of them on night 0) I am voting for three different people on the first three nights of the game, which is as much "spreading" as is possible up to that point. After night 2, I will re-evaluate whether I want to stay in the pact or not, and I may well vote for someone else anyway. Get off my case, I'm just playing the game.

Oh, so you're giving your word to be part of a long term plan, which by your own logic is something baddies would be looking to do, and you're already planning ahead to when you'll break it. Cool.
[/quote]

What boo has said here is Definitely twisting of words and looks awful. If not that then it's jumping to conclusions/assuming things in a negative light. Nutella put forth a decent plan to assign her votes and you just said nope "this is what you're actually going to do, even though I can't tell what you're thinking." It's a bad strategy and I suggest you stop arguing it and accept that you did something bad before you get yourself lynched. If you have a problem with being lynched that is

[sprityo]

Dieodhakrojake I broke quote, mods plz fix

[sprityo]

The conclusion is this though, Nutella is better looking than boob by a good amount, but Nutella based solely off of her interactions with boo is a light town AT BEST

[nutella]

I like starting at "everyone is innocent until proven guilty"as opposed to the "everyone is guilty until proven innocent" that many others view

In general, I start with the former as well. It's just that in this case, with Boo having asked about repeat targeting for evo votes, I think it is more likely that he is bad and was asking because he wants to evolve a teammate. It makes less sense for a civilian to want to repeat target evo votes, at least at the beginning of the game when we're not sure who's good -- it's better to spread them around among the people we think we trust.

Here's the post boo is taking all of these assumptions from. "Spreading votes around among the people we think we trust" is exactly what I am doing for the next few nights. I am not piling votes on one player, because for one thing -- bear with me here as this might be hard for you to understand -- it's not allowed. If it were allowed, I suspect only baddies would do it; I don't trust anyone enough at this point to give them evo points two nights in a row. And as I have said multiple times, I don't know whether LC and Speed intended for the pact to last longer, but I personally have not committed to it for more than two nights, so if I end up targeting one of them a second time after that it would be because I strongly trusted them.

Votes are being spread around, but you're probably going to die because votes aren't being spread around.

Wut?

Well, technically, LC and speedchuck are the ones that made the decision to both give me votes tonight. I didn't ask them for those votes, but I didn't turn them down either because of course I want myself to get votes. It's preferable from my point of view to have someone I know is civ (i.e. me) to get more than one vote and likely evolve, rather than have every civ get one vote and nobody evolve, while the baddies will almost certainly have someone evolving soon due to being able to guarantee two of them voting for the other. Fortunately, it just so happened that I know at least two people decided to trust me enough to give me votes, and at the same time I am also voting for someone I trust.

I think part of your misinterpretation issue here is that you're conflating two different senses of "spreading" votes -- one being the spread of votes from different players on one night, and the other being the spread of votes from the same player on different nights. Synchronic and diachronic, if you will. My original statement was about the latter, and you have twisted it into being about the former, whereas in fact my statement about voting for whomever you trust each night does not at all preclude having one person receive several votes in one night, if multiple people choose the same person. Which is exactly what several players were trying to coordinate on day 0 -- try to distribute votes among a smaller group of "trusted" players so that the votes would cluster a little bit more -- it's just that, as I said in the original post, since it's early game there isn't really a consensus on who to trust so it ends up being an individual decision that may result in some overlap.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I like Boo

Not sure if he is good or bad, but I like him. He plays the way I do.

Impressed by him am I as well.

To both of you, why and how?

He thinks like my civ meta.

He is aggressive and doesn't seen to care whether people are reading him bad or not. He just picked a target and wants to take her down. He seems to be showing confirmation bias, which is a sign of an error but not of bad alignment.

He saw the cooperation plan as suspicious and trying to find scum among the ones making it.

Mafia tends to have a sense of self-image imo, they don't pick fights that will make them look worse.

I'm not sure if I agree with his posts, but I think he is making them from a civ perspective.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

And yes I'm aware that it means my civ meta is kind of stupid sometimes (though other times it works).

[sprityo]

In my gut i want to say i trust DDL a lot even though looking at his ISO didnt give me a whole lot to go off of outside of his dislike for timmer and a scuffle with jack.

I saw some things about LC and speed being tossed around too. LC mostly, like nutella was against boo on his whole concept, which is correct. but i think why i keep seeing the names together is how he discusses with speedchuck a sort of vote alliance thing for tonight. and.... thats really it? not much else i can go on, he's essentially same level as nutella in terms of what he's doing. only nutella has been more argumentative about it and LC was taking pot shots here and there.

Speedchuck, starts out with some nice pro-towny things. he at least talks about it and not too much (which in retrospect makes him look better than how jack was arguing it) but thats because theres not much. and then he just kinda misses out and asks for a recap, so eh.

and then i wanted to cover jack since i just HAVE to, being he is who he is. we've gotten quite the "friendship". (i also just realized this post is half the people on my list, hmph. interesting) So overall jack actually.... looks good. i mean his disagreement with DDL wasnt a two sided thing, they both have their reasons. i would side with DDL on it based my personal opinion since having all vanilla towns is lame. but jack makes some decent posts in his actual banter, and he also throws down his opinions of people which is more than a lot of players have put out (then again it's day 1 and i can relate that it's hard to get reads sometimes)

I think that should be good, in retrospect, if i was to go into my list of 6, the other three, Dom, Mac, and DrWilgy, well i couldnt do the former two, and will change them if they dont show up tomorrow (the phase), and DrWilgy doesnt have enough for me to judge him im pretty sure. (at least, if im remembering right)

[sprityo]

The conclusion is this though, Nutella is better looking than boo by a good amount, but Nutella based solely off of her interactions with boo is a light town AT BEST

i felt the need to further explain this, im not saying boo is NOT town, but in a comparison situation.

but i think ive covered the hot topic issues and players of yesterday and will be retiring to a nice evening of video games

[boo]

I like Boo

Not sure if he is good or bad, but I like him. He plays the way I do.

Impressed by him am I as well.

To both of you, why and how?

He thinks like my civ meta.

He is aggressive and doesn't seen to care whether people are reading him bad or not. He just picked a target and wants to take her down. He seems to be showing confirmation bias, which is a sign of an error but not of bad alignment.

He saw the cooperation plan as suspicious and trying to find scum among the ones making it.

Mafia tends to have a sense of self-image imo, they don't pick fights that will make them look worse.

I'm not sure if I agree with his posts, but I think he is making them from a civ perspective.

I've never said I want to take down la. I want to lynch LC, not her. I just don't think she should be given a free pass to lie to everyone.

[Long Con]

I've never said I want to take down la. I want to lynch LC, not her.

Because I'm a hypocrite, right?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

@Jack

Turns out I didn't actually suspect the people who voted with me. Rather, I mistook them for the ones making a whole bunch of fishy votes last phase:

Timmer (temporary)
DF
Tinky
Eloh
Dizzy
Sprityo
Gman

It's so many I can't even begin to think where to look first.

[Simon]

Kalos Region Knock-Out!

And the first knock out has already happened! Seventeen remain and two of the Pokemon are out. Stay tuned...

JackofHearts2005 is unable to battle!

He was Charmander!



It is now Day 2. You have 24 hours to lynch someone.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Wow I almost voted for Jack.

[sprityo]

hm.

interesting.

[G-Man]

Interesting result. Not a very strategic kill. I suspect it's someone with experience playing against Jack.

RIP.

[DrWilgy]

Interesting result. Not a very strategic kill. I suspect it's someone with experience playing against Jack.

RIP.

Odd what makes you say this?

@DDL, why are you so unsure of his alignment then if you thinks it comes from a civ perspective?

[G-Man]

Interesting result. Not a very strategic kill. I suspect it's someone with experience playing against Jack.

RIP.

Odd what makes you say this?

Instinctuition.

[speedchuck]

Darn. I wanted to keep Jack around.

Feel like Sprityo and Fredwood might have killed Jack n1. Maybe DDL. Gut feelz.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Interesting result. Not a very strategic kill. I suspect it's someone with experience playing against Jack.

RIP.

Odd what makes you say this?

@DDL, why are you so unsure of his alignment then if you thinks it comes from a civ perspective?

My opinion is not a constant.

[speedchuck]

By the way, keep in mind: I think every pokemon has 2 evolutions. If someone gets over 6 points (we can't ask them or know for sure, but y'know. Estimate.) it isn't helpful.

Let's say that you form a triangle and everybody votes for each other (A good strategy. Beneficial and guarantees a certain amount.). Then don't do it for more than 3 nights. That would be stupid.

Is this right?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Snover, Munchlax, Riolu, Inkay and Mewoth only have 1 evolution.

Mew and Mewtwo have none.

Eevee has eigth, but it can only pick one and then that's it.

[speedchuck]

So nobody can go more than two. Same principle holds.

[DrWilgy]

Interesting result. Not a very strategic kill. I suspect it's someone with experience playing against Jack.

RIP.

Odd what makes you say this?

@DDL, why are you so unsure of his alignment then if you thinks it comes from a civ perspective?

My opinion is not a constant.

But what changed?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Good luck, town. Charmander out.

[Long Con]

By the way, keep in mind: I think every pokemon has 2 evolutions. If someone gets over 6 points (we can't ask them or know for sure, but y'know. Estimate.) it isn't helpful.

Let's say that you form a triangle and everybody votes for each other (A good strategy. Beneficial and guarantees a certain amount.). Then don't do it for more than 3 nights. That would be stupid.

Is this right?

Agreed. No sense wasting evo-points. Ideally we can get every Civ up to maxed out level, and put some powerful abilities in play.

[Long Con]

Also RIP Jack. Truly sorry to see you go, you're a real asset to every game you play.