Pokemon Mafia [ENDGAME]

[G-Man]

Ick. You're right. I will go through again after dinner and double check them all. Somehow Wilgy notes ended up in the Faraday tab.

[boo]

Cool. The rest of them look right to me. I like it, good summation. I have a feeling based on where you did include some thoughts you're going to wind up looking at the same person I'm leaning bad on tomorrow, but we'll see where you wind up on that once you're fully read up I suppose.

[boo]

Well, one of the people I *most* lean bad on. Top two or three, results pending on how the kill shakes out.

[sprityo]

Golly it's like I have a lot of irrelevant content and no one else does? At least to scale......

If it was so irrelevant it could've been left out, but whatever. I'm known to be irrelevant until the town runs out of ideas. When's the last time you've ever seen me lead something?

[sprityo]

Ebwop: I should've added a "not to mention" in the beginning of that last sentence. It doesn't match what I was trying to say

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Some bits

Tink is so aggressively apathetic I want to lynch him/her just for that. The whole whing days zero about their alignment though, unfortunately.

G-man seems detatched. Im having a bad feeling about him.

Boo... I still want to believe in my read, but this lynch has forced me to evaluate it, and some of his posts do seem forced. Some players are just weird though, I dunno.

If by distracted you mean sneaking the start of a mafia game in behind the wife's back on a weekend and working 11-hour days ever since, while trying to read the game and take notes when I have a spare minute or two (not to mention using my entire lunch break to read while shoveling calories into my mouth), only to go home and sneak mafia in behind the wife's back before and after the kids go to bed... Yeah, you got me.

Thing is, I'm trying to distringuish between signs of you being busy and signs of you not wanting to contribute with the greater scumhunting goal. Baddies get busy IRL too.

And I've never seen bad Gman. This could be the first time...

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I know it's annoying when players suspect you for not posting when you have been busy. I've been there. But I can't help it. From my side, there is nothing I can do but analyse your behavior, from a completely uninformed standpoint. Please don't be offended by it.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Btw, did you draw any conclusions from that analysis, Gman? As in, anyone you think is civ or bad? I feel that is more important than the comments on individual posts, though those are interesting too.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I feel like dizzy has stopped appearing too much after that very active day 0.

[Epignosis]

I have never hosted before on the phone.

I'm not about to make a career out of it.

speedchuck is unable to battle.

He was Pikachu.

It is now Day 3. You know what to do.

[Long Con]

Damn it.

[speedchuck]

Good luck town!

[boo]

Yea, that makes sense. Rip speed.

DF, to answer your question. I'm still suspicious of LC, but someone in the LA/LC/speed group being killed reeks of more of a frame job on LC to try and set me on going at him again. Whether it succeeds would be irrelevant, since in this scenario, neither of us is bad.

Now, going on that, who is the framer.

Well, I figured la or speed would be the NK target, and that was delivered on. I think DDL did it. If he's a civ, which I strongly doubt, he's not what I expect in a meta sense. But he's exactly what I expect from him for a baddie in a meta sense.

Why?

I like Boo

Not sure if he is good or bad, but I like him. He plays the way I do.

I have a sense this isn't wrong.

G-man had the thought that jack was killed by someone who knows him well. Initially I disagreed and was leaning the other way (he'd have been on my shortlist to kill that night if I were bad), but my feeling is he is good at reading ddl (or rather, civ ddl, he said he has never played with a baddie ddl). Killing someone good at reading you on N1 in a game set up where you know there will be no protector or roleblocked to hassle you? That's just too good to pass up and not kill the person you think is your biggest threat.

[nutella]

Aw, RIP speed

LC for the love of god update your photobucket account

[MacDougall]

Am... am I actually in this game? Ok.

[MacDougall]

I have no idea what is going on but spirityo gets my vote because of this post

Are y'all enjoying your day zero shenanigans? It's noon and I just woke up, so I can assure I won't be reading anything before this

Also hi jack. We'll see how much I can trust you.

[DrWilgy]

Am... am I actually in this game? Ok.

Ho-ly shiiiiiit, what's up Mac?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Wait, Jack has experience in playing with me? That is news to me.

Iirc I only played one game with him where I was civ and he was some weird kind of indie.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

It's not just LC. Every image in this forum that used photobucket has self destructed. Including most of the winner banners.

[G-Man]

Inconclusive just yet on a number of people. I'm up to page 9 of 13, so I'm getting there.

With all three of the top vote recipients on Day 1 being civvie, it makes it harder to pull anything from the day. The votes piling onto those folks were not cast to save anyone, so we have to look for lazy votes on the main trains and noncommittal votes off those trains.

What I was looking for are players who seemed quick to agree with the ideas of others but slow to offer their own insight. I'm also wary of those who are both low-content and low-quality posters. While I'm sure we have at least one active and engaged baddie, I wouldn't be surprised if the baddie team coasted through with minimal effort since none of them were in harm's way.

A few people that I think fit the coasting profile for Day 1 are Dyslexicon, Elohcin, Fredwood, Neverwhere, Nutella, Sprityo, and Tink.

We'll see if Day 2 got better for any of them.

[boo]

It's not just LC. Every image in this forum that used photobucket has self destructed. Including most of the winner banners.

that is LC. He makes a lot of the banners and other images people have in their sigs. Anything not broken is mostly from daisy probably.

[G-Man]

I recommend turning off signatures until the problem is resolved.

[Fredwood]

So there's still no answer if the vote at EoD was a tie? It's kind of what I was waiting for too, because to have two low attention players come in right at EoD, one to break the tie, seems off.

Also still putting out the possibility that a scum G-man would definitely abstain from that vote if both wagons were civ. Problem is Tink voted G-man and Tinks appearance and non vote was incredibly suspect. Doubling down on not voting for town wagons by two scummates, seems like it would be a risky play if G-Man and Tink were W/W

Elo, again is problematic, but she's tied to a Boo flip now.

[Epignosis]

We're not giving extra information about polls.

[Fredwood]

I didn't realize the question was about polls it was about whether they were tied, but fine.

[Epignosis]

We're not giving extra information about whether polls were tied.

[DrWilgy]

MOOOOOOOOM, LC broke the siiiiiite.

Gman's notes brought me back to these lists.

Boo
Gman
Dizzy
Nutella
Speedchuck
DF

Thats my proposed list. You guys post yours. I propose we make a deadline for it and then everyone sends their votes. Is 3 hours before the end of N0 good enough?

If we're still considering alternatives to Jack's list:

G-Man
Boo
DDL
Dyslexicon

Those are the only ones I'm leaning somewhat civ on so far.

For what it's worth, here's a list of players I'm considering sending my point to:
Jack
G-Man
Long Con
Speedchuck
Dyslexicon
Timmer

So I don't get the purpose of putting 6 names down. From what I can read in the OP it's just one person you vote for. But my list is as follows:

Speedchuck - because we're CPI buddies
Dom - because I'm afraid of Dom. Always.
Jack - because I "like" jack as a person
DrWigly - because he's a doctor
LC - because I like LC as a person
Mac - because I haven't seen Mac in forever it feels like

Everyone above, has your list from before changed? how has it changed? has it narrowed down or widened? why?

DDL, DF, Hazelnut, you had all 3 chosen Gman. Why G-man in specific.

Sprityo, in regards to your list specifically, you and Jack were the only ones to list me. Why did you choose me? beyond that of "he's a doctor?" Am I still on that list? Why did you choose Dom and Mac as one only posted today, and the other is still out?

There are more players that I no idea what to think than players who I have thoughts on. I'd say the null and void atm are DF, Dom, Eloh, G-Man, Mac, Neverwhere, Sprit and Tink. From all of you, can you let me know which player you find the most interesting, and why?

And for now...

Adios muchachos.

[sprityo]

@DrWilgy, my list has changed. Quite drastically in fact due to 1/3 being dead. I would add DDL to the list since he is a prominent player in my opinion, And I would take off Dom since he has yet to appear. You are hesititantly on there still solely because I need 5-6 players but you haven't done anything spectacular to have me want to keep you there. I'll also add Nutella as a hesitant since she appears to be wanting to do the right thing but I'm not 100% sold on it. I think. This all coming without checking back on information is what I'd have my list at now. I'm keeping mac on the list since he has at least appeared and I'm interested in seeing what he does.

Finally, the original list I made, was for all the reasons I listed. Nothing more nothing less. Hence why you're now a hesitant instead of "lol cause he's a doctor"

[sprityo]

So if you wanted an updated list it'd be

LC
DDL
Nutella
Mac
*DrWilgy

[G-Man]

I got through the end of Night 1 but taking notes is slowing me down. I'm going to read through Day 2 and Night 2 and try to pounce on two or three people before the deadline.

[G-Man]

I put emphasis on the early evo lists because I thought it might be interesting to cross-reference them later as people die off.

DFaraday: G-Man, DDL, Dyslexicon
DDL: Boo, Dyslexicon, Nutella, Speedchuck, DFaraday
Dyslexicon: Nutella, Timmer, DDL, DFaraday
Nutella: Jack, G-Man, Long Con, Speedchuck, Dyslexicon, Timmer
Sprityo: Speedchuck, Dom, Jack, DrWilgy, LC, Mac

I'll come back around to it later but I would imagine baddies would only risk putting one teammate in such a list so as to protect the other in case they are found out.

Here are some quick thoughts on everyone:

Boo: I think he was warranted in pointing out inconsistencies with Nutella but I don't know that they amount to full-on contradiction. I didn't really pick up on his beef with LC.

DFaraday: He took a nice and fair shot across the bow at Wilgy Day 2. I agree with him that Boo's Day 2 vote was inconsistent with his suss of LC but he was also a hot item at the time.

Dom:

Dragon D. Luffy: Dragons breathe fire, thus they produce a lot of smoke. DDL has produced a lot of smoke (posts) but the value of the content has been lean. Lots of early mechanics and evo discussion and some snarking throughout. Vocal is good for now though. I am trying to temper my natural desire to distrust him.

DrWilgy: Other than agreeing with Nutella about Boo, what have you contributed that's been substantive? Lots of tangents and fluff.

Dyslexicon: Showed promise early on. Please come back and play.

Elohcin: I realize she's on vacation. That muddies the waters. Her game so far sucks. Her Timmer vote was poor. I'm undecided yet. Distracted Eloh may not be the same as overly-agreeable Eloh.

Fredwood: Cultural differences make you stand out. You're determination on having to vote for Boo or Timmer Day 2 was poorly conceived. I might like to watch you die.

G-Man: This is why we love him.

Long Con: When I come to my notes on him, I can see why Boo started throwing shade. A few posts that could be leading/coaching but the sample size needs expanded.

MacDougall: Welcome aboard.

Neverwhere: Picking up Lazy Rotten Deborah vibes here. I might like to watch you die.

nutella: When you get defensive, you get wordy. Wordy explanations can be interpreted as the work of a try-hard. Be succinct or be dead. You back-peddled on Boo as well. That was curious.

sprityo: Fluffy McFlufferson. You upped your game recently but I still don't trust you. I might like to watch you die.

Tink: You must be an Under The Radar Talent Fairy. I might like to watch you die.

[G-Man]

I've got a question for Boo...

What don't people like about G-Man? He's not a super high poster, but I'm getting a genuine attempt at helpfulness from him.

Boo, you said before you wanted to lynch LC. Is this still the case?

I want to see the NK before I answer that. I think LC and I will both survive it, but if that isn't the case, my thoughts for where we should take things d3 aren't helpful.

What's the answer now?

[nutella]

@Wilgy - G-Man was on my list because he was one of the players I got civvish vibes from on day 0. Nothing more to it really. I think I still feel mostly okay about him.

@G-Man - I get wordy when I damn well feel like it, lol. I post what's on my mind, and during the back-and-forth with Boo I had quite a bit to say about why he wasn't making sense. And yes, I originally suspected him and then backed off because his persistence in the debate felt more like civ behavior.

[boo]

I've got a question for Boo...

What don't people like about G-Man? He's not a super high poster, but I'm getting a genuine attempt at helpfulness from him.

Boo, you said before you wanted to lynch LC. Is this still the case?

I want to see the NK before I answer that. I think LC and I will both survive it, but if that isn't the case, my thoughts for where we should take things d3 aren't helpful.

What's the answer now?

I already posted it :P

[Fredwood]

Wow G-man not understanding why I would want to tie a vote that was being decided by a low-poster that magically appeared at EoD to vote. Especially when he was conveniently abstaining from a vote.

[G-Man]

Is that all you got, Fred? You spoke more about mafia theory and side-bar stuff on Day 1 than anything with teeth. On Day 2, you gave me one poke about my NK analysis and then disappeared, only to come in at the end of the day, expressing dismay at having no choice but to vote for one of Timmer or Boo because they were the top trains. You also tried to angle it as if my abstention was forcing us into a coin-flip (without even understanding how Epi and Simon break lynch ties).

Dude, I once posted in nothing but pics and memes for a whole game because I wanted to. Same goes for the time I posted like a Magic 8-Ball. Or the time I posted like the Old Spice guy (the man your man could smell like). Or the time I played in character as Dr. frickin' Evil. It's a free internet. Everyone still had a choice at the end of Day 2. My actions didn't force you or anyone else to do anything. Saying otherwise is just trying to pass the buck.

Speaking of my NK analysis, I still maintain that Jack's murder wasn't smart. Unless the baddies killed Jack because he came out and said that, despite all the argle-bargle with DDL, he thought DDL was civ, it's an unforced error. The only benefit to come out of it was getting rid of the most talkative player. Around here, talkative and sharp players don't get taken out right away or JaggedJimmyJay would be the first NK every time. That's why I think it makes sense for someone from Jack's or another mafia culture to be behind that. Perhaps they have a teammate that is barely around to bounce ideas off of. Whatever the case, it quieted down the thread and achieved little else.

[Neverwhere]

Gman I take full responsibility for being lazy thus far. Struggling to get back into the mafia mindset as a newbie combined with a hand injury that has prevented me from being able to type.

Taking some notes at the moment so I'll hopefully be back later with some reads on people.

[G-Man]

If you all had to choose between the following five people for today's lynch, who would you vote for? Right now, I'm wavering between two of them, possibly a third.

-Fredwood
-Neverwhere
-Nutella
-Sprityo
-Tink

[Fredwood]

Actually I voted for you until EoD and have been saying your activity at EoD was suspect also I never said you trying to force a tie I said you didn't care who got lynched, very different. Listing a long list of stuff and not coming away with anything other then OMGUS isn't very strong either, and self-quoting your analysis at someone who hasn't really gotten any traction on his read of you.

If you can't see a reason in trying to force a flinch then gif posting could be fun. On top of that, the majority of day 1 was theory crafting about how to determine how to distribute evolution points, then we got into a debate about inactive lynching day 1, so acting like anyone had teeth day 1 is patently silly. Forgetting that caveat I had a number of positive reads, like Speed, like Dys, like Jack and like DDL...some of them were emphatic town reads. So if townclearing someone in my mind isn't as effective scum hunting /shrug. I also have suspicions and I tied the vote to see if I got a reaction jump, the fact that I didn't (when no one knew how ties were resolved) tells me that scum didn't necessarily care about d2 lynch and boo is at least cleared for this phase in my mind. But hey, I'm not doing anything.

[Fredwood]

self-quoting your meta analysis at me should be there left out the meta part.

[Neverwhere]

I just did a complete read through of everyones posts and now i can't move lol I cut my hand really bad/have some nerve damage and i just wore my codeine off typing.

I'll fill in more when i can type better later.

Out of your list, Gman I'd be most inclined to vote for Tink. Possibly Sprit yo. Not so sure about Fredwood.

Dr. Wigly pings me off a bit too. He seems helpful, but fishes for a lot of information and asks a lot of questions without giving much of his own opinion sometimes. I think he just reminds me a lot of me when I've been scum.

[G-Man]

Actually I voted for you until EoD and have been saying your activity at EoD was suspect also I never said you trying to force a tie I said you didn't care who got lynched, very different. Listing a long list of stuff and not coming away with anything other then OMGUS isn't very strong either, and self-quoting your analysis at someone who hasn't really gotten any traction on his read of you.

If you can't see a reason in trying to force a flinch then gif posting could be fun. On top of that, the majority of day 1 was theory crafting about how to determine how to distribute evolution points, then we got into a debate about inactive lynching day 1, so acting like anyone had teeth day 1 is patently silly. Forgetting that caveat I had a number of positive reads, like Speed, like Dys, like Jack and like DDL...some of them were emphatic town reads. So if townclearing someone in my mind isn't as effective scum hunting /shrug. I also have suspicions and I tied the vote to see if I got a reaction jump, the fact that I didn't (when no one knew how ties were resolved) tells me that scum didn't necessarily care about d2 lynch and boo is at least cleared for this phase in my mind. But hey, I'm not doing anything.

28 minutes my bad. Dys and Elo I guess could vote though, I just realized I don't recall a single Tink post either, there must have been one or so. G-Man forcing a coin flip or a vote change from someone concerns me that neither are scum.

I'm mistaken, eh? You placed the outcome of a poll, where people vote, on me, who abstained from voting, in that read of yours. As for fishing for reactions, that's fine and all. I don't suspect Boo either but it didn't take tying him with Timmer for me to reach that conclusion. Tone reads, though rare with me, are handy like that.

[Neverwhere]

Also, im curious what everyone thinks of Gman since a few of you have said you were suspicious of him. I've only played one game on this site and that was two years ago. I'm having a hard time reading G because the one game I did play with him he played similarly to how he is now as far as i remember and he was civ in that game. I don't feel confident enough to say though.

[Fredwood]

Forcing a tie or getting someone to decide the vote...The fact that it's a tie didn't matter to you...what's hard about this to understand.

I was actively interested in forcing a tie, you were actively interested in not being involved in either wagon. See the difference?

[G-Man]

Forcing a tie or getting someone to decide the vote...The fact that it's a tie didn't matter to you...what's hard about this to understand.

I was actively interested in forcing a tie, you were actively interested in not being involved in either wagon. See the difference?

I had zero confidence in either option. That's a far cry from being indifferent to the outcome.

[Fredwood]

Also, I said concerns, I was stating a thought about your abstention, not as proof of guilt. In actuality your push back on the point is more AI then the action for me. There's town reasons for abstention, just as much as there are scum reasons for abstention, and it wasn't part of the case I was building cus frankly I wasn't really building a case. I mentioned that you pinged me, and mentioned a second time when something you did pinged me and that's the 3rd ping. Instead of explaining actions or thoughts that ping me you ad hominem and say I'm doing nothing and passing the buck.

Plus I was rather specific about why I felt your NK was off, I don't like NK analysis but first post felt like a leading manipulative analysis designed to get people to come to a conclusion on their own, it's open ended. I TR Speed for his specific NK analysis.

[Fredwood]

Forcing a tie or getting someone to decide the vote...The fact that it's a tie didn't matter to you...what's hard about this to understand.

I was actively interested in forcing a tie, you were actively interested in not being involved in either wagon. See the difference?

I had zero confidence in either option. That's a far cry from being indifferent to the outcome.

That's fine, but you presented no other alternative push, or at least not at the time, I can't see if you had a vote on anyone from earlier. Even if no one follows you it's a stance. I wasn't saying oh G-Man is totes scum for abstention I said it concerns me because it could mean both wagons are town if he's scum. It's not a tonal read, that's a strategic move one way or another. In fact nothing about my pings on you has been tonal, all 3 where for specific actions you took.

I also had zero confidence in the lynch and said as much because so much of the pushes were based on meta analysis. However I used the lynch to give myself more information.

[G-Man]

If you had zero confidence in the lynch, then why on earth did you vote for Timmer? Was it because you had already voted for him once before? I mean, picking one of the two top trains just because that's how the day is going to roll isn't logical if you think you're going to vote for a civvie either way. That kind of binary thinking reminds me of the 2016 election. *shudders*

[Fredwood]

I never voted for Timmer. Of the two, I made a decision because I felt the arguments were more compelling.

And again, I was there at EOE mentioned how many votes had not been cast and was mentioning who probably weren't going to vote. When two of them came on and voted. I even mentioned casually that I was going to vote timmer because of avatar, half jokingly.

Elo votes, which as I already stated the reasons about timing being concerning, so in my mind if that's a ping, I'm not letting a ping decide a vote especially for someone who I think looks better (boo). So I tied it to let the fates decide and to see if anyone switched or voted after I did. No one did which means Scum wasn't around (but I threw shade at Spirit when he said, oh I don't know what happened, right after EoD half joke half serious) or scum didn't care about the lynch because it was a villa villa lynch.

So I made the best of a bad situation.

[DrWilgy]

Dr. Wigly pings me off a bit too. He seems helpful, but fishes for a lot of information and asks a lot of questions without giving much of his own opinion sometimes. I think he just reminds me a lot of me when I've been scum.

I like this. Information gain without use is just fluff, even if it brings discussion.

If you want my opinion, feel free to ask me. I'm at a point where I have too many nulls. These nulls make it hard for me to judge the active players.

If you all had to choose between the following five people for today's lynch, who would you vote for? Right now, I'm wavering between two of them, possibly a third.

-Fredwood
-Neverwhere
-Nutella
-Sprityo
-Tink

Tink.